ADSL2+ getting cheesed off!

Hi folks

Got moved onto ADSL2+ around 3 weeks ago (27th Jan) and I can't say it's been very smooth going!

Prior to this, rock solid ADSL max connection (33dB down and 6dB SNRM, Interleaving off), pretty much the full sync and highest IP profile and it would usually stay up 20/30 days+ before I suppose errors got a bit high and it re-sync'd

It now seems that the DSLAM keeps changing things almost for the sake of it!. One minute interleaving is on (sensible for ADSL2+ on this line I suspect), then it switches it off. Errors rise, so I speak to ISP to get it switched back on. Next ... one minute the DSLAM lowers my 12dB upward SNRM to 6dB (fair enough, loads to play with, it looks rock solid to me), then it raises it back to 12dB and now I see it's lowered it again! Downward SNRM up to now (I run Routerstats 24/7) has always been a rock solid 6/7 dB, hardly wavering even during the evening. Now I see that it's been raised to what looks like 9dB for no real apparent reason!!! So that 1Mbps+ chopped off my downward speed.

I should mention maybe, that except for when they switched Interleaving off, error secs/HEC/CRC's have not been too excessive. And speed tests and real world usage / downloads have been fine.

So... my question is... is this normal behaviour on ADSL2+??? Is it still "settling down"???

I'm also starting to wonder if I would be better off forcing ADSL2, rather than 2+ !? As my highest sync has only been around 11Mbps anyway.

If it goes on like this, I'll have little more than when I was on ADSL max!

Moan, moan, moan.

PS. Though I did request a move to ADSL2+ myself, it would have been forced on me later this month by the sound of it anyway.

PPS. Stats currently sitting at:
Uptime: 0 days, 1:39:22
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,156 / 9,642
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 2.20 / 33.31
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.0 / 37.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.0 / 9.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / µ
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 4 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 310 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1,195
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

I suspect you can ignore the "error seconds" as these probably appeared when the re-sync happened. And have not increased since the re-sync. Same with the LOF errors I suspect.

Edited by MrBeeline (Sat 18-Feb-12 16:01:04)

This is getting worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My RX SNRM target now seems (for no reason that I can see) been increased to 12dB! My download sync is now worse than when I was on ADSL max (with a 100% stable connection).

The daft thing is, since they put interleaving back on the line, everything has looked fine. The SNRM was solid at 6dB, so it's beyond me why it was increased to first 9dB, then 12dB. The DSLAM seems to be going MAD.

Think I'll have to get onto the ISP again.

You could try scrapping the + and just use ADSL2. Maybe there are some frequencies higher up which are interfering with the signal, and causing lots of re-syncs.

My down attenuation is 33db and I can hold the same sync for over a month using ADSL2+, but not all lines are equal.

Thanks for the reply.

I was wondering if forcing ADSL2, rather than ADSL2+ might be worth a try.

I Emailed the ISP last night and that was one of the ideas that I floated. But think I'll give them a chance first. If only because their Customer Support has always been so good.

I'm assuming by the look of it, that I can use either DMT to do this (appears to be an option), or Telnet the router directly!?

Broadband as I said recently to some "is a dark art"!

I assume you're using a speedtouch router? Then telnet would the easiest way.

Yes... Speedtouch 585v6....

I did try a new Billion 7800N for a few days last week. But that did not "appear" to manage the SNRM as well as the trusty Speedtouch and it seemed (for some reason) to pick up a fair bit of interference when I switched my Plasma TV on. I've had the TV 2 years and it's not even in the same room as the Billion. So Amazon very kindly took it back.

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

Yes... Speedtouch 585v6....

I did try a new Billion 7800N for a few days last week. But that did not "appear" to manage the SNRM as well as the trusty Speedtouch and it seemed (for some reason) to pick up a fair bit of interference when I switched my Plasma TV on. I've had the TV 2 years and it's not even in the same room as the Billion. So Amazon very kindly took it back.

Amazing Amazon. Taking back a 2-year old plasma TV .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

Amazing Amazon. Taking back a 2-year old plasma TV .

Took me three goes to get my English language O'level back in the early 1970's! There are times like this when I can see why.

It was just too inviting. Meant in good part.

BT based service? Their profiling is awful.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

BT based service? Their profiling is awful.

His profile says Newnet

Indeed.

Made me chuckle.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

BT based service? Their profiling is awful.

Unluckily "yes".

The only LLU on my exchange is either "talk talk" (and no one seems to like them), or SKY.

I just wish BE were interested in stepping in. Though doubt if they would be interested in such a small exchange.

Edited by MrBeeline (Sun 19-Feb-12 23:15:03)

Talktalk reseller sounds like a good idea.

If you went with a TalkTalk reseller offering partial LLU (SMPF) your downstream sync should be close to mine:

Uptime: 20 days, 4:16:16

DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.022 / 13.610

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 31,00

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,0 / 19,5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,5 / 36,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,0 / 6,0

- Interleaving is being applied -

Downstream throughput is always just over 11Mbps.

Although the monthly cost could cheese you off!

ADSL2+ and ADSL2 are affected more by the condition of the wiring in the home.

has the original poster tried the master sockets test socket? And seen how the line behaves for a few hours, and verified that no other phone sockets work in the property in this configuration

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

ADSL2+ and ADSL2 are affected more by the condition of the wiring in the home.

has the original poster tried the master sockets test socket? And seen how the line behaves for a few hours, and verified that no other phone sockets work in the property in this configuration

Router already (and it's been this way for a couple of years) plugged into BT master socket via a filtered faceplate (ADSLnation). And main PC connected to router via Ethernet. Not sure what else I can try / do. Ring wire should not be an issue, as the faceplate should get round this.

My line re-sync'd again last night and I now have what looks like a 15dB rx SNRM target!

What an earth is going on!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Edited by MrBeeline (Mon 20-Feb-12 10:14:43)

Okay but have you ACTUALLY tested from the test socket?

In reply to a post by epyon:

Talktalk reseller sounds like a good idea.

No disrespect intended. But I thought people on this board tended to say talktalk was not really much good!? or is their LLU stuff OK now? I have no personal experience here, just going by comments I've read.

Question... can I just take broadband if I go LLU, or does it have to be phone and broadband? It's just that I've only just realised why BT have been showering me with cheap options and freebees (EG.free upgrade to free week day evening and weekend phone calls and pay line rental for 12 months and save 50% etc). Unluckily I've taken all these "offers" as they appeared a good idea at the time! So that's me locked into BT for 12 months now I suspect..

TalkTalk gets a bad rep due to customer service generally, usually few technical problems

TalkTalk wholesale is a different fish to TalkTalk retail

Quote: MrSaffron...Okay but have you ACTUALLY tested from the test socket?

No....

Might be worth a go I suppose.

The only thing is, I've been running Routerstats pretty much 24/7 and can't see any real dip in SNRM, the graph of rx/tx SNRM is pretty much a straight line. Also all line errors are pretty low. Even the FEC count is only in the thousands. So from that point of view, I can't even see why the exchange keeps re-syncing my connection. It was fine for the first three days with a downward sync of around 11Mbps. Then the DSLAM took interleaving off, which I subsequently asked the ISP to get put back on. From then on the DSLAM has constantly kept fiddling with things.

Edited by MrBeeline (Mon 20-Feb-12 10:31:00)

Talktalk Retail is so-so....there actual equipment in the exchange is pretty decent which is what resellers will be using not there actual backhaul (depending on the package obsly) i've been using it for 2 or so years pretty much problem free.

Completely depends on the package most will let you keep you're bt line.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

TalkTalk gets a bad rep due to customer service generally, usually few technical problems

TalkTalk wholesale is a different fish to TalkTalk retail

Right... now I know that I'm going to seem pretty ignorant here... but what's the difference between "TalkTalk wholesale and TalkTalk retail" ???

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

TalkTalk gets a bad rep due to customer service generally, usually few technical problems

TalkTalk wholesale is a different fish to TalkTalk retail

Right... now I know that I'm going to seem pretty ignorant here... but what's the difference between "TalkTalk wholesale and TalkTalk retail" ???

A big one! With Retail you are using their exchange equiptment, their backhaul and their customer support.

With the resellers you are only using talktalk's exchange equiptment to deliver you ADSL2+ you then use the resellers backhaul and support (which most of the time is far superior).

In reply to a post by huwwatkins:

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

TalkTalk gets a bad rep due to customer service generally, usually few technical problems

TalkTalk wholesale is a different fish to TalkTalk retail

Right... now I know that I'm going to seem pretty ignorant here... but what's the difference between "TalkTalk wholesale and TalkTalk retail" ???

A big one! With Retail you are using their exchange equiptment, their backhaul and their customer support.

With the resellers you are only using talktalk's exchange equiptment to deliver you ADSL2+ you then use the resellers backhaul and support (which most of the time is far superior).

Right... so it would be talktalk retail that I would need to be looking at.

I'll give Newnet a chance to sort this and then investigate other options.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep you posted.

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

In reply to a post by epyon:

Talktalk reseller sounds like a good idea.

Question... can I just take broadband if I go LLU, or does it have to be phone and broadband? It's just that I've only just realised why BT have been showering me with cheap options and freebees (EG.free upgrade to free week day evening and weekend phone calls and pay line rental for 12 months and save 50% etc). Unluckily I've taken all these "offers" as they appeared a good idea at the time! So that's me locked into BT for 12 months now I suspect..

Yes, with partial LLU (SMPF) if it is available at your exchange using a TalkTalk reseller as your ISP.

Must be going blind in my old age. I've had a look out of interest at www.talktalk.co.uk and I can only see an option for broadband & phone!

You are! You've got the wrong end of the stick. Can't you read?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Yes, with partial LLU (SMPF) if it is available at your exchange using a TalkTalk reseller as your ISP.

and elsewhere!

Have a chat with Matt (TBB user name uno) he might be able to check if partial LLU (SMPF) using TalkTalk kit via a reseller is available at your exchange.

However, as I said earlier in this thread, the costs might be prohibitive for you.

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

In reply to a post by huwwatkins:

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Right... now I know that I'm going to seem pretty ignorant here... but what's the difference between "TalkTalk wholesale and TalkTalk retail" ???

A big one! With Retail you are using their exchange equiptment, their backhaul and their customer support.

With the resellers you are only using talktalk's exchange equiptment to deliver you ADSL2+ you then use the resellers backhaul and support (which most of the time is far superior).

Right... so it would be talktalk retail that I would need to be looking at.

I'll give Newnet a chance to sort this and then investigate other options.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep you posted.

No - not talktalk retail. A talktalk wholesale reseller is what you want.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

You are! You've got the wrong end of the stick. Can't you read?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Yes, with partial LLU (SMPF) if it is available at your exchange using a TalkTalk reseller as your ISP.

and elsewhere!

More than a little rude that! Not what I would expect from contributors on this forum.

But thanks anyway.

Well, you needed a wake-up as you were continually ignoring numerous posters saying "TalkTalk reseller"

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Well, you needed a wake-up as you were continually ignoring numerous posters saying "TalkTalk reseller"

I wasn't ignoring anything. I did not quite appreciate what was being discussed. But I do now and thank you for your wake-up call.

Right....

I've plugged my brain in now (honest).

Can't say that this looks very healthy! Though strangely enough, the connection looks not to have dropped.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/mikedowen/b...

1 noise spike in 45 minutes that did not cause a resync does not represent a problem from the view of the suppliers side of things...

I'm curious as to which service you are on now, that keeps flipping interleaving off/on? And how you are checking that it is doing this?

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

Right....

I've plugged my brain in now (honest).

Can't say that this looks very healthy! Though strangely enough, the connection looks not to have dropped.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/mikedowen/b...

Check the sync speed graph for exactly the same time - if you get a dropout at exactly the same time then its more likely to be the router not responding to the request than a snr margin drop.

This is a specific example of a partial LLU reseller option being discussed:

Link

Also Xilo (Uno) may be an option as mentioned earlier.

Gary

Incoming phone calls can sometimes cause the connection to drop possibly due to a massive noise spike at the exchange. I had that problem after only about 6 ring tones on adslmax which I cured first by using the BT answer phone service, which cuts in after about 6 ring tones, then as a permanent cure (?) by switching ISP's and going to partial LLU with xilo/uno (still keeping my landline with BT on a one year contract.)

Have you eliminated incoming phone calls as a possible problem?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

1 noise spike in 45 minutes that did not cause a resync does not represent a problem from the view of the suppliers side of things...

I'm curious as to which service you are on now, that keeps flipping interleaving off/on? And how you are checking that it is doing this?

It's now done the same thing twice more in the last two hours and these times it did appear to re-sync. Download speed rapidly getting lower!

Was on ADSL2+ (G.992.5). I now appear to be back on G.992.1 (which I'm assuming is ADSL1). This has happened while I nipped out to the shops.

As to Interleaving. The application Routerstats appears to say whether it's on or off. This agrees with DMT. The FEC count also indicates this and Interleave depth was reporting as 1, which I also assumed was "off". The ISP also confirmed that when my line was initially switched to ADSL2+ that Interleaving was on, then on the 30th... it switched it off. They then requested it switch back on.

Confused I am.

huwatkins


Sync speed graph also showed a drop to zero. Though as above post, I've had two more since and these did cause a re-sync. Now appear to be back on ADSL1. Whatever it is, it's getting worse!

Edited by MrBeeline (Mon 20-Feb-12 17:11:17)

gmoorc

Thanks.... I'll have a look at it in more detail when I've got some idea of what's currently going on.

Just in case I forget to say.... thanks for everyone's help so far.

Edited by MrBeeline (Mon 20-Feb-12 17:15:44)

Which provider is this with?

Knowing that will allow people to judge whether its the DLM system kicking in, also posting the raw numbers, ie. connection speed, attenuation, and noise margin is important for people to figure out what may be happening

No problem....

It's Newnet.

Moved from a totally stable ADSL max connection on the 27th Jan this year (8128 sync, 7150 IP profile) and happy as a Larry to stay up 20-30 days+ with no problems.

First 3 days were fine, 11Mbps sync. Every speed test showing around 9.5Mbps download. Real world files being pulled down at around 1100KBps

Stats currently look like:

Uptime: 0 days, 0:56:06
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,088 / 5,504
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/MB]: 834.00 / 1.61
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.0 / 34.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 8.0 / 15.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / µ
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 11 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 90 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 327
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 30 / 3
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 18 / 3

Though error seconds & LOF do not appear to get re-set on a re-sync (IE. these are the totals for the last 3 days).

Think I'm off for a strong coffee, my head hurts!

NB. Upstream adsl1 sync is uncapped at 1,088 amongst other things

In reply to a post by 4M2:

NB. Upstream adsl1 sync is uncapped at 1,088 amongst other things

Not capped as such. On real ADSL it would be capped at 448 or 832, but this is an ADSL protocol being imposed on an ADSL2+ connected line, and I believe it doesn't cap the upload.

What router have you got and how up-to-date is its firmware?

I'm wondering if it can't really cope with ADSL2+. Some older ones that claimed to be compatible turned out not to be when connected to it, until their firmware was fixed.

Edit - 585v6. Up to date firmware?

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 20-Feb-12 20:45:53)

I think you should do as MrSaffron suggested a while back, and try the test socket with a dangly filter, even if the firmware is up to date.

The filters in anything can fail.

We just need to be able to rule that out.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 20-Feb-12 20:48:36)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

NB. Upstream adsl1 sync is uncapped at 1,088 amongst other things

Not capped as such. On real ADSL it would be capped at 448 or 832, but this is an ADSL protocol being imposed on an ADSL2+ connected line, and I believe it doesn't cap the upload.

That's exactly what the nice lady from Newnet said earlier this evening.

Edited by MrBeeline (Mon 20-Feb-12 20:49:19)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

What router have you got and how up-to-date is its firmware?

I'm wondering if it can't really cope with ADSL2+. Some older ones that claimed to be compatible turned out not to be when connected to it, until their firmware was fixed.

Edit - 585v6. Up to date firmware?

Quite an old version of the firmware 6.1.4.3 ... though this is the version that I've seen mentioned as being the best there was on this modem/router. I've got another 585v6 on later release 7 firmware, but this has a bug in it that prevents line errors being reported correctly. I've got a Zoom X6 as well, but this never worked as well (lower sync and less stable than the Speedtouch). I did try a Billion 7800N a week ago, but this seemed to pick up a lot of "noise" from the Plasma TV. You could see this by looking at the Routerstats graphs when Plasma TV switched on / off. So this went back to good old Amazon.

I found 6.2.29.2 was more stable than 6.1.4.3. The reason for using 6.1.4.3 is purely that it was the last one that allowed alteration of the sync-time noise margin. I found its error counts very bad compared to later firmwares and on my particular line settled for lower errors.

I don't know about the 7.x.x.x ones, but I suggest you try it and sod what it reports for errors while we see if it is the router.

Though 6.1.4.3 on O2 LLU worked. It didn't do what yours is doing, but then it didn't have a DLM sitting at the other end.

So....

The plan from the nice young lady is:

- Reset Speedtouch to factory defaults (hardware reset). Something I did not do when I moved to ADSL2+ and Newnet CS said that this is usually recommended and re-configure from scratch. Now done (see stats below).

- Get BT to test the line (but don't use the word "broadband when talking to them). Plug old fashioned phone via dangly filter into test socket behind removable faceplate. See what they say.

- Then phone Newnet back for another chat.

While chatting to the CS rep. she did comment about some sort of "super profiling" (must admit she starting loosing me at this point) having been applied to the line. And expressed surprise that this was the case, as usually they have to request it. Don't have a clue what this was about. Though I've worked in IT for some 35 years as a programmer (now retired) I'm the first to admit that I'm no networking expert. I was just a plain old COBOL programmer, I knew where I was in those days!. Bring back punched cards and paper tape, that's what I say!

Newnet rep. did get me back onto ADSL2+ but SNRM targets obviously still high. And she commented that they can get these reset depending on how things progress.

Depending on the outcome tomorrow. Other options are:

- Try another modem/router. The TP-link TD-W8960N isn't too expensive and looks to have a Broadcom chipset in the modem (people keep banging on about this on long lines).
- Try another filtered faceplate (ADSLNation XTF-85). But try direct into the master socket via a dangly filter first.

Final option... shoot myself. Still just about retaining my sense of humour.


Uptime: 0 days, 2:35:06
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,156 / 6,680
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/MB]: 880.00 / 2.73
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.0 / 37.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.0 / 15.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / µ
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 11 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1,615
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 14
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 11

PS. By all accounts the line drops this afternoon / early evening were due to their testing.

I expect the term "Super-profiling" is referring to the sort of thing I pointed out. That on a line connected to WBC, ie a 21CN ADSL2+ capable line, that as well as playing with interleaving, noise margin and IP Profile it can also impose further controls.

It can certainly put in place "banded profiles", which restrict the maximum speed it is allowed to connect at, (the higher the speed the less stable any line becomes), and by the look of it can also force it down to ADSL2 or ADSL. From our perspective we normally expect ADSL2 to be imposed from our end, and if it just appears by itself to be the result of bad noise at connection time, but who knows!

It looks like Newnet are taking a constructive approach, so that's good .

You mentioned the 7800 being affected by noise from a plasma TV.

The noise will still be present with other routers, and the router may simply be better at not using the affected frequencies, hence the lowish sync speed.

You now appear to have a 15dB target margin, i.e. the result of the DLM (which runs forever) feeling you have an unstable line, and forcing speed down to make it stable.

If you have the plasma TV and as many other electrical devices turned off and unplugged are the stats any better?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You mentioned the 7800 being affected by noise from a plasma TV.

The noise will still be present with other routers, and the router may simply be better at not using the affected frequencies, hence the lowish sync speed.

You now appear to have a 15dB target margin, i.e. the result of the DLM (which runs forever) feeling you have an unstable line, and forcing speed down to make it stable.

If you have the plasma TV and as many other electrical devices turned off and unplugged are the stats any better?

Thanks once again for your input.

I have a suspicion that the Plasma TV issue is probably a bit of a red herring. When it's on, even the Speedtouch seems to notice it, but not as much as the Billion. Devices on/off (IE. TV, microwave etc.) don't seem to make a huge difference either way. It's not like the line drops, or there appears to be serious erros appearing (except with the Billion and I don't have that any more).

The thing that keeps bugging me, is that all was fine for the first few days. Decent 11Mbps sync, great real world download speeds and low (ish) errors being recorded. And this was on the trusty Speedtouch 585v6.

Stats currently looking like:

Uptime: 0 days, 16:39:31
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,156 / 6,680
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 13.39 / 190.16
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.0 / 37.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.5 / 15.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / µ
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 26 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3,837
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 41
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 34


I don't know what you think. But that (after a hardware factory reset / reconfigure last night) doesn't look too bad to me. Obviously still stuck on a 15 dB downward SNRM at the moment. According to Routerstats, the down SNRM is a straight line graph at 15dB. Hardly any movement even during "TV time" last night. I suppose you have to expect a few errors being logged on what is probably approaching a 3 km line once all the twists and turns it probably makes before it reaches the exchange (samknows says 2.6km I seem to remember).

Next step is to switch off / disconnect everything and get BT to test the phone line (as per ISP request). Then everything back up and yet another call to Newnet to see what it looks like now. And maybe depending on what they say, a request to get my SNRM re-set.

TBC...... keep smiling as they say.

Edited by MrBeeline (Tue 21-Feb-12 11:21:41)

11Meg is inline with you having a 6dB target noise margin, the automatic systems have seen the disconnects, reboots and errors as a sign of instability, and raised the target noise margin twice.

This lowers the sync speed, to where you are now. If you are still getting errors then it is a case of sorting those out.

NOTE: Noise does not always cause a resync, the effect can be very subtle. Or put it another way the Billion was showing you more the real state of affairs, rather than having any problems.

NOTE: if you call BT to test the line, they only test for voice based tests. Any DSL testing MUST be requested via NewNet

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

11Meg is inline with you having a 6dB target noise margin, the automatic systems have seen the disconnects, reboots and errors as a sign of instability, and raised the target noise margin twice.

This lowers the sync speed, to where you are now. If you are still getting errors then it is a case of sorting those out.

NOTE: Noise does not always cause a resync, the effect can be very subtle. Or put it another way the Billion was showing you more the real state of affairs, rather than having any problems.

NOTE: if you call BT to test the line, they only test for voice based tests. Any DSL testing MUST be requested via NewNet

Yes, I hear what you are saying and appreciate this. Though the only actual disconnections that I've experienced. Have been either during Newnet testing. Or when the exchange re-sync'd to change things.

And the start of all this was when after 3 days, the exchange re-sync's me and takes Interleaving off!! The crazy thing being really, that if the exchange thinks my line is good enough to be on FAST path... doesn't that sort of imply that my line is pretty reasonable!?

Just got BT to test line (telephy side only as you say) and surprise, surprise, no fault found. Not surprised really, as the phone line has never been clearer than it is now. The BT quiet test, is just that... quiet..

Once back OL, I phoned Newnet again and told them my "progress" and they checked the last 20+ hours and said "line looks fine to us"... we just can't understand what's going on. You should be capable of much better than this. So they are going to speak to BT (for what good that will do) but I suspect the next option will be to restart the 10 days "stabilisation period" and see what happens there.

As to:

"Or put it another way the Billion was showing you more the real state of affairs, rather than having any problems"

That is one concern of mine to! Only answer I suspect, would be to try yet another router at some point and see what it looks like IE. is it reporting more like the Speedtouch, or the Billion.

Looks like a long haul....

Edited by MrBeeline (Tue 21-Feb-12 13:05:12)

RobertoS

Hello yet again...

The thing they were talking about, is something they call "super stable". It appears to allow them a fair degree of margin themselves (IE. the ISP) to fiddle with things. Again this part of the conversation went "whoosh" over my head.

Question... you being the "ring wire expert". When I had my ADSLnation faceplate off (for BT line test), I noticed that I have THREE wires connected to the filtered extension connections on the back of the plate (wires 2, 3 & 5). from what I understand, wire 3 is the "ring wire". While the ADSLnation faceplate is supposed to filter this. Is it worth actually disconnecting this? This extension does go into the room where the Plasma TV is! There is both a phone in this room and it's also connected to my SKY+ HD box.

Edited by MrBeeline (Tue 21-Feb-12 13:16:28)

The XTE-2005 does filter the ring wire so should be OK. But filters can fail. I see no harm in removing it unless you have one of the rare phones that need it.

The main filter sounds to be OK else you would have chaos.

I would also try putting an additional filter on the Sky box just for a while. Modern ones like that should be OK, but you never know.

Also if any signal cables are running neatly alongside power cables that can be dodgy.

Super stable is I think just BT speak for an absurdly high target noise margin.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 21-Feb-12 13:36:11)

Thanks RobertoS..

I've now removed ring wire completely. Put extra filters on both SKY box and phone in that room (to be sure, to be sure). Re-routed the phone extension cable in that room to be as far away from the Plasma TV and power cables as possible. I've also gone "ferrite core mad" and stuck them on everything I can behind the TV (as I have an extensive home cinema / AV set up).

My fictitious "training period" (dont quite know what to make of this... even having read what you pointed me to before) has "supposedly" been re-started!?!?! But currently though back on ADSL2+, I'm still stuck on a 15dB rx SNRM. So until this comes down, I can't see there being any increase in my sync speed. Now I wonder after 10 days.... am I going to be in the same boat. My guess is "yes".

At the moment, rx SNRM rock solid and very few errors being logged by my router (if I can believe it of course!).

TBC as they say. Thanks for your input up to now.

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 16:09:28)

It is very probable that if your noise margin immediately after a reconnection is still ~15dB that someone is telling porkies.

It would be reset to 6dB on restart of a 10-day training.

They should be able to reset it to 6dB anyway, without doing a full 10-day trip.

Is it possible they have requested a reset/retrain, and that hasn't gone through yet?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It is very probable that if your noise margin immediately after a reconnection is still ~15dB that someone is telling porkies.

It would be reset to 6dB on restart of a 10-day training.

They should be able to reset it to 6dB anyway, without doing a full 10-day trip.

Is it possible they have requested a reset/retrain, and that hasn't gone through yet?

I think your last sentence reflects what's happened. The rx noise margin re-set itself to 6dB at 12:45 today. Interestingly the line sync drooped from 7.1Mbps to 6.1Mbps!

Question re the fictitious "training period". If the DLM runs all the time, then is this what makes the idea of a "training period" rubbish? As doesn't the exchange effectively have the option to "fiddle" with things when ever it likes. So really isn't the "training period" infinite?

Going back a few posts. Out of interest, I've been investigating the the idea of "partial LLU". As my exchange now has TalkTalk LLU and it looks like Xilo may well be able to provide this for me (I've Emailed their CS with some queries regarding this). The costs from what I can see are little more than I currently pay at Newnet (they are certainly not a cheap ISP!). Plus their download limits are much more generous. The idea of getting away from BT equipment looks quite appealing. For the life of me I can't see any drawbacks at the moment. Thanks to everyone for explaining this concept to me, even if it took a while for it to sink in.

PS. As to "They should be able to reset it to 6dB anyway, without doing a full 10-day trip." Newnet said that they could not do this and that BT had refused and insisted I had to go through the "training period" again.

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 21:31:24)

I think your last sentence reflects what's happened. The rx noise margin re-set itself to 6dB at 12:45 today. Interestingly the line sync drooped from 7.1Mbps to 6.1Mbps!

An excellent typo . Stats please though.

Question re the fictitious "training period". If the DLM runs all the time, then is this what makes the idea of a "training period" rubbish? As doesn't the exchange effectively have the option to "fiddle" with things when ever it likes. So really isn't the "training period" infinite?

Explained on my website. All the 10-day training does is record the lowest connection speed in the 10 days and set that as the best you can expect. Then it sets 80% of that as the Fault Threshold Rate. As longs as you don't consistently sync below that then Wholesale & Openreach won't even look into slow speed results.

As there appears to be something odd even now, hence the need for the stats, this is a mess!

Partial LLU - an excellent idea. You are looking at 10-11Mbps connection speed, and probably over 8Mbps actual download speed. That's being pessimistic.

Here you go:

adsl info expand=enabled
Modemstate : up
Operation Mode : G.992.5 Annex A
Channel Mode : interleaved
Number of resets : 4

Vendor Local Remote
Country : 0f 00
Vendor : TMMB µ VendorSpecific : 0000 0000
StandardRevisionNr : 00 00

Downstream Upstream
Margin [dB] : 6.5 5.5
Attenuation [dB] : 37.0 15.0
OutputPower [dBm] : 0.0 12.5

Intrinsic/Actual Bandwidth %
Upstream : 100
Downstream : 53

Available Bandwidth Cells/s Kbit/s
Downstream : 15688 6652
Upstream : 2658 1127


Transfer statistics
Errors
Received FEC : 281637
Received CRC : 20
Received HEC : 15
Transmitted FEC : 7
Transmitted CRC : 2
Transmitted HEC : 1

Near end failures since reset
Loss of frame: 11 failures
Loss of signal: 3 failures
Loss of power: 0 failures
Errored seconds: 64 seconds
Near end failures last 15 minutes
Loss of frame: 0 seconds
Loss of signal: 0 seconds
Loss of power: 0 seconds
Errored seconds: 0 seconds
Near end failures current day
Errored seconds: 21 seconds
Near end failures previous day
Errored seconds: 43 seconds
{Administrator}=

The 4 re-sets reflect the 3 test that Newnet ran yesterday (it appears to drop the connection when they do this) and the fourth one is when the rx SNRM dropped (or is this "drooped"?) from 15dB to 6dB today.

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 21:55:28)

That's showing a connection speed of 6652kbps. You should be getting over 12Mbps from those stats.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's showing a connection speed of 6652kbps. You should be getting over 12Mbps from those stats.

Indeed! I continue to be a confused man.

I just noticed the following in the above stats:

Intrinsic/Actual Bandwidth %
Upstream : 100
Downstream : 53

And what I am getting is around 50% of 12Mbps....

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 22:08:28)

Interesting. A figure I've never seen before.

What router is it, and have you any others that work on ADSL2+?

It's the speedtouch 585v6 ... it managed well the first time round. Well at least for the previous 10 day training period. The only other that I have is an old Zoom X6 (non Broadcom chipset) and it never seemed to do very well on this line the last time I tried it (probably a couple of years ago).

I Was originally going to purchase a shiny new router for when I went 2+ This is what the Billion 7800N was for (and God did I spend some hours reading reviews!). Sent it back though, as it "appeared" not to get on with my exchange / line as well as the speedtouch (premature return maybe!?).

Only other option, is buy something else. And there I struggle to find something that suits. Broadcom chipset in modem is what most people seem to recommend. But everyone I look at seems to get -ve reviews and I end up not being able to make my mind up. Local Comet/Curry's have only Netgear, or Belkin and there seem a fair few -ve comments on everyone I've looked at on Amazon! I did think of a TP-Link TD-W8960N which though a budget router, does on the whole get +ve real world reviews and it's got a Broadcom chipset. Obviously getting one would take a couple of days. Unless you have any suggestions?

Other options are:
1) Phone jolly old Newnet again tomorrow morning. I'm pretty much on first name terms with Charles and Kirsty now!
2) Re-boot or do a hardware re-set on the router mid morning tomorrow.

Think I'll pop down stairs and get myself a whisky now.

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 22:55:12)

Hardware reset might be a good idea.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Hardware reset might be a good idea.

Decided not to wait. I can do this with my eyes closed now!

Not a jot of difference.

So I'll give Newnet a phone tomorrow morning.

I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks yet again for you help.

I wonder if this is one of those strange profiling type things that 21cn decides to do every once in a blue moon ? You can get SNR resets done all you want, but it needs 'someone' to have a discussion with a BTw bod to have the whole shebang built again from scratch.

Strange being the operative word!

It's just re-sync'd and it's shoved my tx SNRM from 6 to 12dB for no reason that I can see. It looked quite happy at 6dB to me (though first to admit that I'm no network expert).

Going to phone Newnet once again.

Partial LLU looks better to me every day this **** goes on!

PS. Newnet claim they tried to just get things re-set but BT refused outright. Obviously I have to take their word for this. No real reason to doubt them.

Edited by MrBeeline (Thu 23-Feb-12 10:42:01)

Newnet claim this is "normal behaviour" during the 10 day training period (their words not mine) and no conclusion can be drawn until this has finished. They were not even phased by my very low rx sync.

Got the distinct impression that they did not want to hear from me again until this has expired. So looks like that's how I will have to play it.

Not terribly happy how this has panned out for me so far. Maybe something other folks considering moving to ADSL2+ from max, want to consider. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

Thanks yet again folks.

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

Newnet claim this is "normal behaviour" during the 10 day training period (their words not mine) and no conclusion can be drawn until this has finished. They were not even phased by my very low rx sync.

Then they are just talking absolute rot. They are either telling deliberate untruths to shut you up, as you surmise, or genuinely have no idea what they are on about wrt the 10-day training period. (Read the linked page).

Got the distinct impression that they did not want to hear from me again until this has expired. So looks like that's how I will have to play it.

You get a MAC via online request from Newnet within minutes, but if you want to make the point that they are talking utter garbage about the ten days you could ring and ask for it, telling them so. (That if they don't even understand the 10 day period it isn't surprising they can't get this mess sorted out.

Thing is, they aren't really interested in small fry like us these days.

At any point, have Newnet arranged for an LLU SFI2 visit by an Openreach engineer. That the SNR is back up at 12db already doesn't seem right to me.

Your 585 v6 router should work just fine with partial LLU and if you go with xilo/uno SMPF Matt (uno) will be more than willing to help, discuss and comment on your connection/router stats.

I had a chat with him the other day about my adsl2+ connection he advised keeping interleaving on in order to maintain the best combination of speed and stability with my 36dB downstream attenuation and 6dB down SN Margin syncing at 13610Kbps down...

BTW I got a downstream SN Margin of 6dB when I first connected to to xilo/uno SMPF, a couple of months ago, and it has never changed although downstream sync did loose a few Kbps due to interleaving being applied after a few days to maintain stability.

That's because LLU doesn't have BT Wholesale's hyper-active DLM to screw up noise margins.

RobertoS

I hear what you say and I have pretty much read the info on your BB site from end to end. And I must say, I think it's great. It's nice to see someone like yourself taking the time to pass quality info. like this on.

Zarjaz

rx SNRM currently sitting at 6dB but sync has actually gone down to 6.6 Mbps! Newnet claimed this is normal behaviour during the fictitious Training Period.

And they have mentioned an engineer a couple of times but said this should really be a "last resort". I also know only too well how much this can cost, as I had a running battle with BT over engineersvisits to try and sort my phone line out a couple of years back (I did get my £300+ in the end). As it was in the end proved to be entirely their fault.

4M2

Still waiting for feedback from Xilo regarding my queries on partial LLU via TalkTalk on my excahneg. Frankly... if they come back and say they can supply me Broadband only on my line, then I'm getting my MAC and I'm off. I can't believe the quality of service could be any worse than this! While I accept it's hardly a life threatening problem, it's the amount of time you spend trying to sort it out that drives you MAD. Not helped by apparently being fed rubbish info by the ISP. A shame, as I've always had a good quality of service up to now.

Life....

Vivaciti etc. ISP's providing SMPF are very good also judging from posts on this site

However my personal experience is with xilo/uno partial LLU only and up to now the service has been faultless. TalkTalk full LLU can be had for a fraction of the cost, but....!!!

partial LLU via TalkTalk on my excahneg

Looks like a burst of noise on the line at the end there .

DLM continues to play with my tx/rx SNRM for no reason that I can fathom. Though interestingly, my rx sync has not moved a jot since this last round of poo started a couple of days back (IE. 6.6Mbps). Only 5 error seconds (zero HEC/CRC) and stable SNRM since the last re-sync some 5 hours ago, it's got me stumped!

Phoned Newnet accounts to check that they had not snuck me onto a 12 month contract when I moved to ADSL2+, luckily still on a monthly. Strangely, even though the accounts dept. is a totally different telephone number, I appeared to be talking to the same nice young lady that I have been when I phoned Support the last few times (job sharing?).

Xilo/Uno answered my Email query within the hour and confirmed that their Pro 24 tariff is available at my exchange. So I've requested my MAC from Newnet. Did it O/L but stated my reasons (while trying not to be rude). Not received it yet. But as soon as I do, I shall be signing up for Pro 24 on Xilo/Uno.

Just stating to set up my 7 day "advent calendar" where on each day a little smillie face appears (not that busy at the moment) and on day 7, fireworks go off. Childish I know, but it made me smile.

Edited by MrBeeline (Fri 24-Feb-12 13:50:40)

Are you confusing the natural variation in tx/rx margins with the DLM system?

noise margins will go up and down according to the noise environment, which is NOT constant. If it were the DLM you would be having resyncs

Don't think so.

For example:
Re-sync this morning (remember I'm on my "10 training period" again). rx SNRM then jumps from 6dB (fair enough... as you say... it fluctuates around 0.5 dB up/down during the day) to 12dB. rx sync stays the same. I can see all this via the graphs that RouterStats produces. Sad man that I am, I've been running this application (IE. RouterStats) pretty much 24/7 during this almost month long fiasco!

If this was a "new training period" then should not my line have sync'd at around the max it should be capable of supporting at the start of this period? On 37dB rx attn and what had up to now been a pretty solid 6dB sync, then I would have thought that this should have been around 11Mbps!? This is in fact what happened on my first "10 day training period". All my problems have happened subsequently.
NB. Line looks fine to me from my router stats, ISP (IE. Newnet) have checked the line and also said "it looks fine to us Mike". So all told, I'm somewhat confounded by what's gone one and the at times "some what shabby" info that my ISP have come out with.

Now got my MAC and am in the process of moving to Xilo/Uno.

I appreciate the feedback though.

PS. Here's an example http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/mikedowen/s...
Corresponding drop to zero on line sync. The router event log also shows a re-sync at this time.

Edited by MrBeeline (Fri 24-Feb-12 16:49:42)

If the sync stayed the same, then that was a noise glitch and the modem has resynced with the 12dB target margin.

I am not convinced that the DLM is tweaking your target noise margiin from 6dB to 12dB and the other way around as you suggest. Improvements usually take 2 weeks to happen on the DLM to target margin, irrespective of the 10 day period.

More likely an oddity with the modem and BT kit, or genuine changes in noise, with figures all confused by a banded profile being applied, and while the graphs are useful and descriptions, more actual data would need to be seen. In a perfect world for every resync, the sync, margins and attenuation after every sync, and periodically grabbed to see the trend over time.

Your router stats graph looks just the same as mine (except SN margin returned to the same level) during a burst of noise at the exchange when I received incoming phone calls which also dropped the dsl connection.

This happened when I was on a adsl1 service with Plusnet last year. An Openreach SFI engineer couldn't fix it, Plusnet didn't seem to want to investigate the fault any further so I left Plusnet and went to partial LLU adsl2+ and the exchange noise problem has gone away

MrSaffron

I hear what you say. But all I can go by is what I see and what I get told. Newnet confirmed to me (if you can believe them!?) that they could see that my Target SNRM (their term) had steadily increased from 6dB, to 9, to 12, to 15 and that I had then been bumped onto an G.992.1 profile. And were totally confused / could not understand what was going on. First 10 days fine, then two weeks worth of ****. Newnet "claim" to have run numerous tests on my line and could not see any problem. So I suppose that leaves BT's kit at the exchange and my router.

The proof in the pudding I suppose is what happens when my Xilo/Uno connection goes live.

Though I think that I shall purchase yet another modem/router prior to this and try it while I'm still on my Newnet connection. That should give me some feel (maybe) for what's going on.

Broadband, great when it works but a world of hurt when it doesn't (first major problem since BB enabled back in 2006).

Edited by MrBeeline (Fri 24-Feb-12 20:56:41)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

and went to partial LLU adsl2+ and the exchange noise problem has gone away

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will be my experience as well.

Just seems that everything was hunky-dory when you were on adsl1 and now after the change to adsl2+ things have got messy which does suggest a line/equipment issue somewhere exchange side of your nte master socket.

Did your ISP offer to send an Openreach SFI engineer out to check the copper pair run etc. from your premises to the exchange? I reckon you did all the checks that are humanly possible your side of the nte5 and an engineer should have been booked...deeds rather than words might have been a lot more useful.

4M2

"Just seems that everything was hunky-dory when you were on adsl1 and now after the change to adsl2+ things have got messy which does suggest a line/equipment issue somewhere exchange side of your nte master socket"

Indeed. But worse than that... everything was fine on ADSL2+ for the first 10 days.

"Did your ISP offer to send an Openreach SFI engineer out to check the copper pair run etc. from your premises to the exchange? "

To be honest, yes they did. But that would have been after this "10 day fictitious training period".

Though even after that. I would have been tempted to purchase another router and try that first.
Engineer visits (as I commented earlier) are the last resort... as they can end up costing you a fortune and causing even more hassle/stress.

Hopefully a move to Xilo/Uno, combined with a new router (probably a TP-link, or a Netgear) should see my problems over (hopefully).

Think I'll just shut up now (thank God say some) and stick with what I have now until the new connection arrives.

The daft thing is, I suspect there are loads out there that would kill for the sync that I'm currently getting!

PS. Just got a go live date from Xilo/Uno of 5/3/2012/ So little more than a week to go.

Edited by MrBeeline (Fri 24-Feb-12 23:12:42)

I know what you mean about being somewhat fearful regarding the potental cost of an engineer's visit However if the fault is diagnosed as being exchange side of the nte there is at least some satisfaction in knowing that one has been thorough in checking everything user side of the nte. But then comes the secondary problem, as you suggested, of getting Openreach and the ISP to fix it

Anyway best of luck...

Out of interest... Could anyone explain (in layman's terms) what the RCO is?

DMT shows: RCO 40% (11350kbps)
My current sync is: 4,540kbps which appears to be 40% of the above figure.

I have GOOGLE'd and am still not quite sure what I'm looking at.

Edited by MrBeeline (Sun 26-Feb-12 12:19:12)

relative capacity occupation. You're syncing at 40% of the theoretical maximum for your line.

Perhaps something is causing big problems with the downstream adsl2+ higher frequencies? Really you should be getting a throughput of about 10Mbps (or more) with your down attenuation of 37dB. Since things were fine when you were on adsl1 it does perhaps suggest a serious noise or crosstalk issue with the adsl2+ signal...I get a constant ~11250Kbps throughput from my 36dB down attenuation on a adsl2+ connection (down SN margin ~6dB.)

What does the DMT bit loading (bit allocation) graph look like?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Perhaps something is causing big problems with the downstream adsl2+ higher frequencies? Really you should be getting a throughput of about 10Mbps (or more) with your down attenuation of 37dB. Since things were fine when you were on adsl1 it does perhaps suggest a serious noise or crosstalk issue with the adsl2+ signal...I get a constant ~11250Kbps throughput from my 36dB down attenuation on a adsl2+ connection (down SN margin ~6dB.)

What does the DMT bit loading (bit allocation) graph look like?

This has been the frustrating thing all along. Not only that ADSL max was fine (full sync / IP profile and fast path) but that the first 10 days of my ADSL2+ connection "appeared" fine. As you say, sync was around 11Mbps.

Got a new modem/router coming Monday and I've ordered up a new ADSLnation faceplate. That then should eliminate my problems being from my own equipment. Also my move to Xilo/Uno a week on Monday then should also eliminate the kit at the exchange. Matter of seeing what it looks like then I suppose.

Never understood what I'm really looking at with those DMT graphs.

But here goes anyway:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/mikedowen/d...

Graph shows all nice until 1.1Mhz, at which point ADSL2+ takes over, and there are gaps suggesting interference, rather than a clean tail off

The 12 target margin which you appear to have will not be helping matters, i.e. a change to a 6dB target would get you back to the sort of speeds you did have.

As people keeping saying the DLM process never really finishes, and it seems some noise introduced instability, which made the DLM raise the target to make things steady

MrSaffron

Thanks for that.

I'll just try and show some patience (first to admit that I'm not very good at that!) and see what happens come a week on Monday.

Edited by MrBeeline (Sun 26-Feb-12 16:51:39)

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

Never understood what I'm really looking at with those DMT graphs.

But here goes anyway:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/mikedowen/d...

How long ago was the router resynced before that screenshot?

You got some sort of low-pass filter on the line?

I thought you had already tried dongle filters/splitters in the test socket with only a router connected, different rj45 leads and different routers also...

"How long ago was the router resynced before that screenshot?" ... about 1day 10 hours

"You got some sort of low-pass filter on the line? " ... router plugged into ADSLnation filtered faceplate

4M2

Indeed I have/did. I had tried a Billion 7800N but now have a TP-link router coming (as I want wireless N). The new faceplate coming is maybe overkill.

Edited by MrBeeline (Sun 26-Feb-12 19:05:57)

Best of luck with the TP-link wireless n router and the new faceplate

Sorry I should have enquired about your rj11 leads also before but you will be getting new leads with your TP-link router anyway.

Edit: don't chuck your 585v6 out because by all accounts they are better than the v7 that I'm using.

Edited by 4M2 (Sun 26-Feb-12 19:19:15)

In reply to a post by MrBeeline:

"How long ago was the router resynced before that screenshot?" ... about 1day 10 hours

What does it look like when you have just resynced?

"You got some sort of low-pass filter on the line? " ... router plugged into ADSLnation filtered faceplate

No, I mean something like a RF3 filter or DACS which is destroying the ADSL2+ frequencies.

The DACS would also kill off the ADSL frequencies, and the RF3 should have no adverse impact. The older RF2 would though, but seen as poster got decent sync from ADSL previously then fair to say they've not got one of those.

In that case I'd like to see what DMT looks like just after a resync

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In that case I'd like to see what DMT looks like just after a resync

Had to have a quick GOOGLE to see what an RF3 filter was. The answer, as far as I know, is "no".

New Modem coming hopefully tomorrow, TP-LINK TD-W8960N, Chosen because it's another Broadcom based chipset and has the best user feedback on Amazon (expensive does not always appear to equal best) and supports wireless N (which I want now all my devices are wireless N). So once installed, I'll run DMT straight away (which I believe works with this router as well). Though I look to need version 8.07

Question and remember I'm the first to admit that I don't know really what I'm talking about. But at one point in the proceedings, I got knocked back to G.992.1 and though the ISP got me "reset" to G.992.5... I never (even on a 6dB rx SNRM) sync'd at more than 7150k. Is it possible I've ended up on some "strange" profile (if that's the right word/expression)?

Thanks for your input, appreciated.

Post deleted by 4M2

Xilo/uno SMPF really is the best the best broadband connection that I've ever had: no dropped connections, downstream throughput speed is always just over 11Mbps (13610Kbps sync), never any evening peak time slowdowns, and technical support is first rate - worth every penny for a reliable and stable service!

I just hope that that you will be equally satisfied with their service and that your adsl2+ noise problems will be sorted out both by your own efforts and/or by the change of kit at the exchange.

Just installed new Router (TP-Link TD-W8960N). Here's what DMT looks like straight after setting it up.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/mikedowen/d...

Highly technical comment on my behalf. But there looks to be more "blue bits" than before on the Speedtouch.

New router reporting the rx attn now as 39.5dB (speedtouch 37dB) I'm assuming this is just a "reporting thing".

rx HEX showing as 4294967285. But again, I'm assuming this is just dodgy reporting from the router. I've GOOGLE'd this number and it seems to occur in a few posts here and there.

New nte5 faceplate as well?

Edit: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7193/6938670663_c13c6a... = my graph just now for comparison.

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 28-Feb-12 17:13:00)

Yes, the new faceplate arrived today as well. Removed old one and somehow got it mixed up with the new one and promptly re-fitted the old one (yes I know.....). Unluckily I did not notice till after I had booted up the new Router. I'll fit the new one next Monday just prior to arrival of my new connection, as don't want to re-sync yet again, in case I upset the DLM any more!

One thing I did notice when fiddling with my socket (so to speak) was that the "ring wire" on the extension plugged into the phone side of the filtered faceplate, was still connected! Though the ADSLnation plate is supposed to filter this, I still disconnected it to be ultra safe.

Interesting to see that I still get a dip in rx SNRM when the Plasma is switched on (around 1dB) but not as pronounced as with the Billion 7800N. Just got to see how it manages the SNRM during the evening.

Onward and upward....

PS. Tried the high gain antenna that I had bought previously. And as some folks had already suggested, they don't seem to make any difference (though they are impressively large!).

Edited by MrBeeline (Tue 28-Feb-12 17:18:10)

Did you see the edited addition to my previuus post?

What about the sky box? If you've had it more than a year then I believe you can disconnect it from the phone line (?) - that's if you are not using it to order box office movies etc. of course

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Did you see the edited addition to my previuus post?

What about the sky box? If you've had it more than a year then I believe you can disconnect it from the phone line (?) - that's if you are not using it to order box office movies etc. of course

Just had a look at your graph. You have even more "blue bits".

Do order the odd box office movie. And want to plug it into the Internet when SKY allow Anytime+ on any ISP come this Easter (be handy for Iplayer and ITV player).

Plenty of "blue bits" (only a few gaps) are good I think...

New connection (Xilo/Uno broadband) promptly instigated this morning at 9:40

Download 11,295Kbps, upload 1,020Kbps.
rx SNRM 6dB and tx 9dB (looks pretty stable at the moment)
Interleaving on.

All speedtests look fine and even my ping appears to have improved a fair bit. According to pingtest.net, down from 48ms to 28ms. Not sure why such a big improvement, I would almost think I was on a fastpath connection, but it definitely looks like Interleaving is on (IE. RS errors being logged and interleave depth 64).

Happy as Larry at the moment. Lets hope it stays that way.

Can I say "thanks" to everyone that has contributed and especially to those that put me onto the idea of a "partial LLU" connection.

WHHOOPPEE

Edited by MrBeeline (Mon 05-Mar-12 12:50:57)

Looking VERY GOOD!

Reckon I'm envious of your ping!!!!

Mine:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\xxxx>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=245

Ping statistics for 212.58.241.131:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 35ms, Maximum = 36ms, Average = 35ms

Hi...

What are you using there to check your PING?

I used Windows Command Prompt: just type "ping bbc.co.uk" (without the inverted commas) and press enter on the keyboard.

Upload stability is also very important for me: I uploaded a 155MB video to YouTube the other evening and the speed was rock solid at ~900Kbps - not suggesting you do that for testing though

Looks good. Let's hope it continues.