Zen 8000 price increase!!!!!!

Just had an email from Zen to say the Zen 8000 Active is increasing to £32.50/ Month.

This has really cheesed me off, I have been a loyal customer for nearly 10 years and always had excellent service. How can they justify that price in the present market?

Maybe they just want rid of the adsl customers

How much has it gone up from? Is it one of their legacy packages? If so, it may be they would rather consolidate people onto the new packages.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Is it one of their legacy packages?

Very much legacy! Zen 8000 Active was Zen's very first 8 meg product. I agree that OP should check Zen's latest product range.

Gone up from £25.52.

As far as I can see on their website Zen Active is the only offering.

In reply to a post by agkq62:

Gone up from £25.52.

As far as I can see on their website Zen Active is the only offering.

Yup, but "Zen Active" is not "Zen Active 8000". Switch to Zen Active and you get your old price back.

Why on earth doesn't it say that in the email shown below?



8th April 2015



We�re writing to let you know that our prices are changing on some of our broadband services.

Zen�s mission is to provide the best ISP service in the UK. To do this we are constantly reviewing our products, services and prices and as you may know, we haven�t altered the cost brackets for our broadband offerings for several years despite our many developments and improvements.

When we originally set these prices internet usage was much lower than it is today. Since then, the UK�s broadband network has expanded and the demand for high-speed connectivity in the home and office has increased dramatically. As a result, it has become more difficult to service some areas of the UK due to their infrastructure. Indeed, in some cases, the costs we pay to provide broadband in these areas are almost double that which we charge our customers. We�ve tried our absolute hardest to ensure this has never impacted you; however, we�ve now reached a point where we must alter our prices to better reflect the genuine delivery costs our services require.

As a result, we will be increasing the price of your Zen 8000 Active service from £21.27 per month, to £26 per month.

We appreciate this price jump may come as a bit of a surprise, so we�re doing our very best to ensure you will be supported through the adjustment. Rather than giving you the contractual one month�s notice period about the change, we�ve instead decided to make no price alterations until 1st July, allowing you to fully consider your options.

We understand that as a result of the price changes you may prefer to transfer your services away from Zen completely. If this is the case, please let us know by emailing [email protected] before 5pm on 31st May and we will provide the information you need to move within five working days. If you choose to end your broadband contract with Zen because these changes are not acceptable to you, you can do so without penalty.

If we haven�t heard from you by 5pm on 31st May, we�ll assume you�re happy to continue with your current service at the new cost. We�ll ensure there�s no interruption to you or your service throughout this transition, and you will simply continue on a one month rolling contract.

As ever, our team are on hand to provide support and advice about your account while these changes take place. If you have any questions, please contact our support team on 01706 902260 or [email protected], between the hours of 9am and 5pm, Monday to Friday. We�ve also compiled some FAQs to assist you.

It truly is with a heavy heart that we have to make these changes to our prices. We hope you will understand our position, and know that we will do our utmost to ensure this shift is as easy for our customers as possible.

Yours sincerely,

Richard Ahern
Head of Customer Operations

In reply to a post by agkq62:

As a result, we will be increasing the price of your Zen 8000 Active service from £21.27 per month, to £26 per month.

You said your price is increasing from £25.52 to £32.50. But the email you quote says it's increasing from £21.27 to £26.

Which is it?

The prices on the email don't include VAT.

I'm guessing both... It's the same price stated different ways, which I know Zen often do; factor VAT into it.
 

In reply to a post by ShelleH:

I'm guessing both... It's the same price stated different ways, which I know Zen often do; factor VAT into it.

Ah right. Although £26+vat does not equal the £32.50 mentioned in the OP.

I never spotted that... lol.

I don't know it there are any other associated fees or anything with the legacy packages they offer, perhaps there's a factor that hasn't been stated?

From Zen's point of view, I should imagine the whole exercise is nothing more than a simplification of the tangle of packages they previously offered. From the customers point of view, I can understand what a rude shock this may have been; perhaps a simple mistake on the quoted numbers, due to that shock?
 

Sorry pressed wrong button on the calculator £31.20 incl vat. Not much different from the op.

I must be missing something as if you go from your 8000 Active to the current Active the price stays at your existing £25.32 so why not just swap to the current Zen Active? It works with ADSL in that at my distance from my cabinet my router connects on ADSL.

In reply to a post by Jax2:

I must be missing something as if you go from your 8000 Active to the current Active the price stays at your existing £25.32 so why not just swap to the current Zen Active? It works with ADSL in that at my distance from my cabinet my router connects on ADSL.

The issue being that the email makes no mention of the option to move to one of the newer, cheaper, packages.

Zen is often held up as a better alternative to the "big boys", but they don't seem to be playing any fairer than them.

Think the issue is to do with how much Openreach are now charging ISP for providing a ADSL Max only service. They are trying to force people onto 21CN which is cheaper. This is all fine and well, unless you are on a 20CN only exchange you have no fttc and no option.
I know a few ISP's who won't even provide service on 20CN exchanges anymore.

The gist of the email is, "this is the price increase, if you don't like it email us so we can supply your details for transfer to another provider" Great customer relations.

I am assuming the website price will alter in July.

I will ring Zen tomorrow to try and sort this out

I was just looking at Zen ADSL packages to replace some existing connections that I manage, does Zen use 21Cn network in no LLU areas,

The packages on their website list upto 8mbps?

Also not sure if anyone knows but does the package cost for Zen Lite £18.37 inc Line Rental... I don't think it does but its no clear?

ADSL Max and WBC/WBMC (21CN) are BT Wholesale products. Nothing to do with Openreach.

Also I'm fairly sure there are several 20CN exchanges that have ADSL2+ available from LLU suppliers.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 08-Apr-15 17:50:53)

In reply to a post by agkq62:

The gist of the email is, "this is the price increase, if you don't like it email us so we can supply your details for transfer to another provider" Great customer relations.

Those are the rules, you're entitled to leave.

What should the email have said?

Post deleted by Jax2

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by Jax2:

I must be missing something as if you go from your 8000 Active to the current Active the price stays at your existing £25.32 so why not just swap to the current Zen Active? It works with ADSL in that at my distance from my cabinet my router connects on ADSL.

The issue being that the email makes no mention of the option to move to one of the newer, cheaper, packages.

Zen is often held up as a better alternative to the "big boys", but they don't seem to be playing any fairer than them.

They might not mention it in the email but it could still be an option so I would ring them to find out what the options actually are. If they no longer deal with 20 CN exchanges it would be worth knowing for everybody.

In reply to a post by agkq62:

I am assuming the website price will alter in July.

When a Market 1 number is input: http://s1.postimg.org/3sh0hg2j3/zen.png

In reply to a post by agkq62:

I will ring Zen tomorrow to try and sort this out

BT Retail looks like your best bet, since they do not have split pricing for Market 1 exchanges.

Does anyone know what price Zen 8000 Lite will be after the price hike?

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

Does anyone know what price Zen 8000 Lite will be after the price hike?

£19.20 inc vat, judging by my screen capture.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

Does anyone know what price Zen 8000 Lite will be after the price hike?

£19.20 inc vat, judging by my screen capture.

Oh yes, ta.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

BT Retail looks like your best bet, since they do not have split pricing for Market 1 exchanges.

Oh god no, not BT Retail

In reply to a post by agkq62:

Oh god no, not BT Retail

Unfortunately customers on IPStream Connect only exchanges are somewhat limited in choice. I know someone on an IPSC-only exchange with BT and it seems to be fine, although they are hoping to upgrade to fibre when it is available.

As one of those people who only has 20CN available, I do feel a bit miffed at the pay an extra 20%+ or get lost message from Zen.

We're expecting FTTC to be connected up around here by the summer, and once bitten, twice shy as they say.

It does raise a question. Has BT Wholesale hiked the cost of IPstream Connect recently? Perhaps MrSaffron can find out?

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

It does raise a question. Has BT Wholesale hiked the cost of IPstream Connect recently? Perhaps MrSaffron can find out?

Usage is way higher than it used to be. 20CN bandwidth is considerably more expensive than 21CN per Mbps. That's the kicker.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

It does raise a question. Has BT Wholesale hiked the cost of IPstream Connect recently? Perhaps MrSaffron can find out?

Usage is way higher than it used to be. 20CN bandwidth is considerably more expensive than 21CN per Mbps. That's the kicker.

Is it expensive to upgrade 20CN exchanges to 21CN or is it down to the number of premises that the 20CN exchange serves which determines whether an upgrade goes ahead?

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

Is it expensive to upgrade 20CN exchanges to 21CN or is it down to the number of premises that the 20CN exchange serves which determines whether an upgrade goes ahead?

Mainly due to lack of competition. If TalkTalk or Sky aren't offering 24 meg at the exchange, then there's little incentive for BT to spend the cash to upgrade the exchange to WBC.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

It does raise a question. Has BT Wholesale hiked the cost of IPstream Connect recently? Perhaps MrSaffron can find out?

Usage is way higher than it used to be. 20CN bandwidth is considerably more expensive than 21CN per Mbps. That's the kicker.

Although for many people, including lots of my customers, they're not really using "much" because they normally have pathetically slow connections so the idea of using them for any kind of streaming etc is out already.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by Jax2:

I must be missing something as if you go from your 8000 Active to the current Active the price stays at your existing £25.32 so why not just swap to the current Zen Active? It works with ADSL in that at my distance from my cabinet my router connects on ADSL.

The issue being that the email makes no mention of the option to move to one of the newer, cheaper, packages.

Because if you're on a 20CN Exchange, you *can't* choose "Active" instead of "8000 Active" ... it's not a service option to begin with. I'm expecting I'll be receiving some e-mails for the few accounts still with Zen that are on 20CN exchanges, which also means I'll have a reason to finally migrate everything away I guess.

In reply to a post by Jax2:

I must be missing something as if you go from your 8000 Active to the current Active the price stays at your existing £25.32 so why not just swap to the current Zen Active? It works with ADSL in that at my distance from my cabinet my router connects on ADSL.

Zen's non-8000 packages are provided using the ADSL2+ line card in Zen's MSAN in exchanges where Zen has presence and BT Wholesale 21CN otherwise. If neither of these wholesale services are available, you cannot order the Zen product.

Zen 8000 packages are the only ones that will use BT Wholesale 20CN.


It's many years since I moved from 20CN to 21CN on Zen. So far as I remember, Zen did a bulk move of customers on 21CN upgraded exchanges from 20CN ADSL Max to 21CN ADSL, effectively giving the customer the same product but delivered over the newer, cheaper, wholesale network to minimise Zen's costs. I believe it was then up to customers to ask for a free speed regrade if they wanted ADSL2+ enabling.

I expect Zen continue to bulk move customers to the cheapest wholesale offering. Towards the end of last year, Zen installed a point of presence on their network at the handover point of our FTTC connection, so we were moved from BT Wholesale WBMC to Openreach GEA-FTTC with backhaul over the Zen network.


What I don't know is what Zen do with the customer's product and pricing when Zen LLU ADSL2+ or 21CN becomes available to a Zen 8000 customer. I suspect the upgrade involves a new minimum contract period, so it is up to the customer to request the product switch.

I wonder if a different e-mail was sent to those customers on Zen 8000 products whose service is delivered over Zen LLU ADSL2+ or 21CN, so could switch to a non-8000 product.


As has been said, 20CN backhaul costs continue to rise on a per customer basis, so these costs have to be defrayed somewhere. Whilst BT Wholesale maintain a price differential between 20CN bandwidth and 21CN bandwidth, the ISPs either have to spread the extra 20CN costs between all customers or pass them on to those unfortunate enough not to have access to 21CN or LLU backhaul.


Edit: a couple of clarifying changes only

Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Apr-15 22:39:38)

Plusnet have reduced prices for their BB packages where the connection is to a 21CN exchange, refered to as "low cost areas" in their sales blurb.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

Is it expensive to upgrade 20CN exchanges to 21CN or is it down to the number of premises that the 20CN exchange serves which determines whether an upgrade goes ahead?

Mainly due to lack of competition. If TalkTalk or Sky aren't offering 24 meg at the exchange, then there's little incentive for BT to spend the cash to upgrade the exchange to WBC.

The trend around here is that the exchanges that aren't 21CNed become so after BT has done some FTTC/FTTP in the exchange's area.

I doubt they are linked since the FTTC/P is likely to be running from the nearby town that has been 21CN for yonks.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that part of the reason for 20CN shutdown at upgraded exchanges is so that BT can get some spares for the remaining exchanges that they haven't yet done, so there's obviously some incentive to keep going and do smaller exchanges (not to mention a far more modern network, ADSL2+ support, being able to use equipment with support from its manufacturers)

Interestingly after BT did some FTTC/P in my village, TalkTalk decided it was time to turn up and LLU the exchange. If only they'd done it a couple of years before (BT 20CN was the only thing available)

Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Apr-15 22:00:11)

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

Plusnet have reduced prices for their BB packages where the connection is to a 21CN exchange, refered to as "low cost areas" in their sales blurb.

Sorry, but unless you have inside information that isn't the case.

Plusnet reduced prices, the ones in their banner statements on their website and in adverts, were originally on (Ofcom) Market 3 exchanges, but were later extended to cover Market 2.

Market 1, 2 and 3 status was last determined by Ofcom in December 2010, on the basis of the LLU provision current or forecast at that time for the exchange. It did not change automatically if un-forecast LLU provision subsequently occurred.

Plusnet "low-cost" was never anything to do with whether or not BT Wholesale WBC/WBMC (21CN) was available.

As M1/2/3 have now morphed into MA and MB, as far as I know Plusnet have not specified what the criteria for low-cost now are. I recall over a year ago they had a provisional re-mapping, (before the final Ofcom determination), but I didn't bookmark the link to it and have no idea if it held or was altered.

I do somewhere have a link to the new Ofcom classifications.

In reply to a post by sor:

The trend around here is that the exchanges that aren't 21CNed become so after BT has done some FTTC/FTTP in the exchange's area.

Slightly different around here. A rural IPSC exchange near me is being FTTC-enabled soon, but it will not be upgraded to WBC at the same time; Openreach will run fibre from a WBC-enabled exchange (mine!) instead.

So residents will have a choice between 8 meg IPSC or fibre.

Yes your right Bob my muddle (tired brain) I'd forgotten that there are 21CN exchanges which are classed market1/A

My choice was between AAISP and Zen

Based on this thread I am glad I chose the former!

In reply to a post by AAuser27:

My choice was between AAISP and Zen

Based on this thread I am glad I chose the former!

This thread is about Zen 8000 products - those using BT Wholesale 20CN. Backhaul is costly on this network. These price rises don't affect Zen's 21CN, own network (SMPF) ADSL2+ or FTTC products.


I have no doubt A&A have excellent products, but they are not cost-effective for my usage. I have 80/20 FTTC at full 80/20 sync speed with unlimited usage, which is simply not available from A&A.

The only thing is the A&A product that is missing from Zen that I care about is native IPv6 - using a tunnel is inferior, but it is almost as good. I long for the day I can drop the tunnel and switch to native IPv6, but the tunnel works well.

In reply to a post by David_W:

The only thing is the A&A product that is missing from Zen that I care about is native IPv6...

...and a 100GB per month ADSL option.

Well when my contract is up I might well go to Zen for their Unlimited FTTC. Zen wanted around £80 more to get me up and running on ADSL so I decided to go with A&A instead. I agree the usage limits are tight but whilst I am on ADSL I won't hit them ( I have 200GB this month )

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

In reply to a post by David_W:

The only thing is the A&A product that is missing from Zen that I care about is native IPv6...

...and a 100GB per month ADSL option.

Zen do 500GB for around the same price I think?

There are more ISPs that have native IPv6 not just AAISP

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

There are more ISPs that have native IPv6 not just AAISP

Even Sky are trialling it now! Hopefully it's not like the Plusnet trial which drifted into obscurity and hasn't led to any concrete IPv6 plans for the whole userbase.

With you on this.

When I moved my A&A ADSL2+ service to a 40/10 FTTC service a few years ago now (moving house), it was painless. I even got a fault on the line during installation of some new flooring (I suspect first BT engineer install guy put a staple through the cable, and then when the flooring people were doing their skirting board stuff to hide the cable behind it, something got knocked). Anyway, the fault was fixed that same day.

I later realised why it was so quick - A&A by default provision business lines for their broadband (certainly for unit based packages, not sure about Home::1 - would need to check that) which means you always get super quick fault response/resolution as BT treat the line as a business line.

I had to move to Zen due to the peak-time usage issue. If I have a fault now, it will be the standard care level where it may take a couple of days for them to come out and fix.

I would move back to A&A if they offered some kind of unlimited package, but that peak-time usage is a killer.

Edited by deleted (Thu 23-Apr-15 14:14:00)

Yes I am with you on that also.

I can see I have an order going through to TalkTalk LLU and it shows as as business line. For me personally I do more uploading that down and that's recorded but not included so that's going to be my major advantage. I might check out Zen FTTC someday as now I can migrate.

I went back to ADSL2+ after being on cable for a few months and the quality was so poor in comparison.

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

There are more ISPs that have native IPv6 not just AAISP

7 according to http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ipv6

It's amusing that the "best" ISP operates over the connections of the "worst" ISP.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

It's amusing that the "best" ISP operates over the connections of the "worst" ISP.

TalkTalk's network is actually one of the best I am told. It's the TalkTalk CS that let's them down. Which is why I am with A&A good network and best support possible.

In reply to a post by AAuser27:

TalkTalk's network is actually one of the best I am told. It's the TalkTalk CS that let's them down. Which is why I am with A&A good network and best support possible.

The network of TalkTalk Wholesale is very good as you say, as is the network of TalkTalk Retail (whatever influence they have over matters).

TT CS is problematic, but once India has ticked all the boxes (master socket test socket, filters, etc etc) you can get escalated to UK support for further testing. And there's always the forum of course, if real-time support is not required.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by AAuser27:

TalkTalk's network is actually one of the best I am told. It's the TalkTalk CS that let's them down. Which is why I am with A&A good network and best support possible.

The network of TalkTalk Wholesale is very good as you say, as is the network of TalkTalk Retail (whatever influence they have over matters).

TT CS is problematic, but once India has ticked all the boxes (master socket test socket, filters, etc etc) you can get escalated to UK support for further testing. And there's always the forum of course, if real-time support is not required.

Well I believe this mixed with the support and expertise of A&A might be expensive but is very very worth it. I will see what Zen are like in the future hopefully

My regrade to TT is going down as a move to TT Business from what I can see.

Edited by deleted (Thu 23-Apr-15 22:24:52)

I think it likely it is TalkTalk Business Wholesale, to be precise.

TalkTalk Business Broadband is different again, in the same way as BT Retail and BT Business are different from BT Wholesale.

In reply to a post by AAuser27:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

It's amusing that the "best" ISP operates over the connections of the "worst" ISP.

TalkTalk's network is actually one of the best I am told. It's the TalkTalk CS that let's them down. Which is why I am with A&A good network and best support possible.

Indeed, the TalkTalk wholesale network is very good - and indeed has always been very good in my experience. It's certainly unfortunate they're tarnished by association when there's a huge difference.

I will let you know when I get on it but yes when I look at the new order it says Business service on residential line. At the moment I am on BT 21CN ADSL2+

In reply to a post by therioman:

In reply to a post by AAuser27:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

It's amusing that the "best" ISP operates over the connections of the "worst" ISP.

TalkTalk's network is actually one of the best I am told. It's the TalkTalk CS that let's them down. Which is why I am with A&A good network and best support possible.

Indeed, the TalkTalk wholesale network is very good - and indeed has always been very good in my experience. It's certainly unfortunate they're tarnished by association when there's a huge difference.

It is - I have always thought bad of them and wouldn't have tried them if I didn't have A&A support however I might give it a go in the future also via them directly. If you don't need to contact them on TT retail then I guess there's no difference in experience

I think with plusnet, they started the trial close to the time the new CEO took over, he since reshuffled the staff and it at that point probably got put on a back burner, its a shame the CEO changed at the time it did.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

I think with plusnet, they started the trial close to the time the new CEO took over, he since reshuffled the staff and it at that point probably got put on a back burner, its a shame the CEO changed at the time it did.

Yeah. I do have hope the Sky trial will lead to a proper roll-out this year, I don't think they would move to customer trials unless they were serious about imminent release. I'm not aware if the SR101 and SR102 are reporting a blank WAN IPv6 in the GUI yet, so maybe the Sagem users will be the first to benefit, even after the full roll-out.

Didn't he come in December 2013? See this 2010 Community thread which seems to say the FTTP trial was running then. Also this thread.

yeah and the current ipv6 trial also started in dec 2013.

Oops.

May be we should all change to their new ADSL Unlimited Broadband product, that is £21.40 / month (inc. Vat), or £16 / month when taken with £16.99 / month phone line rental (inc. VAT)

Richard