New down speed problems advice gratefully received

Sorry for typos and misspellings I am dislexic

I have posted here before regarding speed problems and may people were very helpful. Then I had regras0ded to the 80Mb service and after getting Openreach in my down speed was settled around the high 40’s.


Then in mid-July my speed dropped to the near same down speed I was on before the 80Mb regrade, high 30’s.


My ISP Eclipse has not been very helpful, a support person did as line test said it was a fault on our side and grudgingly arranged another Openreach call out. After a lot of promises of how much we would have to pay. As nothing had changed on our side of the BT master socket that didn’t worry me. Since the visit I have changed the lead between modem and master socket, no change at all. The engineer checked the line, implied there was a line problem and they would change my line in the next few weeks. He also felt I wouldn’t notice any real difference between the speed I was on (and what I was paying for).
Latter Eclipse said they had been told there was some A5 work needed. They since asked me if I had any updates, bit off how was I meant to know what they should be finding out/doing!
I did a BT test yesterday showing no change in the morning and sent it to Eclipse who closed the ticket after getting the update. Not surprisingly I have sent a strong protest at this action and a demand they do something.

I ran two tests to day with a reboot of the modem between them and the results are
This morning

Download speed achieved during the test was 39.13 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 40 - 73.4 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is 73.4 Mbps
39.13 Mbps
73.4 Mbps
Upload Test
Upload speed achieved during the test was 15.32 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is 20 Mbps

This afternoon
BT Test this afternoon
Download speed achieved during the test was 38.79 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 40 - 61.63 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is 61.63 Mbps
38.79 Mbps
61.63 Mbps
Upload Test
Upload speed achieved during the test was 18.02 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is 20 Mbps
This is well below the speed given by Broadband Availability Checker which has actually increased in claimed impacted speed since I regraded to now claiming between 80 to 62 and a handback of 55 which is above what I am getting at my best speed.

My modem is a Vigor 130 and after the beboot is saying
Connected : Down Stream : 63667Kbps / Up Stream : 20000Kbps SNR Upstream 6 (dB) SNR Downstream 6 (dB)

I would be very grateful of any advice as to what to do now as clearly I have a problem with both Eclipse and Openreach not dealing with the drop of speed.

Edited by john7 (Sat 22-Aug-20 14:23:52)

So your sync currently is 63667Kbps / Up Stream : 20000Kbps and what was a speed test like when you had that sync?

I hope I understand what you whant
A test just done is



In July this was more the speed


For a time after the 80/20 regrade BT and Speedtest were both about 48/9 until late July it went down to 39.

Edited by john7 (Sat 22-Aug-20 16:19:56)

Are you testing throughput speeds (speedtests) connected wirelessly to your router, or through an ethernet connection? A wireless connection cannot be relied on. It has to be through ethernet to the router.

38 Mbps download when sync is 63 Mbps suggests a throughput rather than Openreach issue

The tests are ethernet.
The setup is a BT master socket (NTE5C) on one side off a wall using the cable supplied with the modem on the other side of the wall. Master router next to modem with two other routers Ethernet linked in other parts of the house. None of this(except trying a different cable between modem and master socket (which made no difference) has changed in the period of a drop of about 10Mb speed down with no real change to the up.

Soprry I am not cleare what "38 Mbps download when sync is 63 Mbps suggests a throughput rather than Openreach issue" means.

I have conexted the laptop direct to the base router and no diffrence

Edited by john7 (Sat 22-Aug-20 22:34:27)

In reply to a post by john7:

Soprry I am not cleare what "38 Mbps download when sync is 63 Mbps suggests a throughput rather than Openreach issue" means.

Sync is the speed your router is connected to the equipment in the Openreach cabinet. 63 is very good. The speed you are getting from the internet, and the TBB speed tester, is much lower. The difference is something your Internet Provider can control. Some providers have their own profiles that limit the speeds, even if you are connected faster to the cabinet.

Only your ISP can fix this.

Three routers on the circuit? How many have DHCP enabled, how many with firewalls enabled?

Quite apart from that, I fear the problem is likely to be explained by this thread. Quite in what way I'm too tired to work out.

Three routers on the circuit? How many have DHCP enabled, how many with firewalls enabled?

One room in an extension with exterior wall between there and rest of house. Set up as a AiMesh so only base runs firewall. If I could get the silly L shaped power connecter out of a small hole I would get rid of one now I have been allowed to add a router in the living room to provide good wi fi connection to a upstairs work room

So if I get this right if the BT gear cane talk to my modem at the speed its sicing at there isn't a problem with the connection just something (my ISP) restricting what actually gets through. This would explaign why the Openreach engineer said he didn’t think changing lines would do anything though why he didn’t just say I was being throttled?

In reply to a post by john7:

why he didn’t just say I was being throttled?

Because ISPs don't actually throttle people, this is a misconception. Normally you pay different amounts for different speeds, for example "upto 38" or "upto 76" services. I suspect you are paying for an "upto 76" which is why your router is connecting at 63, but there is something at your internet provider end that needs attention to realise.

The speed test says you're with eclipse. I would ring them and say "I have 60 sync, why am I only getting 40 ?"

I would also try a lot of speed testers, such as https://speedtest.net and https://fast.com as well as the Thinkbroadband test.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 23-Aug-20 10:18:02)

What I am paying for is 80/20 and its with Eclipse/ KCOM. When I did this I was told my estimated download speed would be 57.6 which was the about the “Impacted” speed given by the BT Broadband Availability Checker. I have never had that speed and been told when I was in the high 40’s basically that was near enough and it wasn’t worth keeping on then. The range BT gave was from near 80 to the low 57 and a handback of 48.5. Its actuall gone up now.but ...

Don't forget my doubts about your previous thread that I linked to.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 23-Aug-20 14:40:27)

In reply to a post by john7:

What I am paying for is 80/20 and its with Eclipse/ KCOM. When I did this I was told my estimated download speed would be 57.6 which was the about the “Impacted” speed given by the BT Broadband Availability Checker. I have never had that speed and been told when I was in the high 40’s basically that was near enough and it wasn’t worth keeping on then. The range BT gave was from near 80 to the low 57 and a handback of 48.5. Its actuall gone up now.but ...

Sadly with FTTC/VDSL there are no guarantees, but if you have a 63 meg sync (number from your router) then you should get high 50's in speed tests on a wired Ethernet connection to the router. (Don't use Wireless/WiFi).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Don't forget my doubts about your previous thread that I linked to.

Sorry I am not sure what this refers to as I gave up on wiring direct into the master socket and have just used the cables suplied with router and now modem to pluginto the fitting.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Three routers on the circuit? How many have DHCP enabled, how many with firewalls enabled?

AiMesh will solve that, one becomes a router, the others work as access points. All managed from one web page. (Its ASUS's clever feature so you can buy more of their products, instead of throwing it all away in favour of Google WiFi, Netgear Orbi, Amazon Eero, or BT WholeHome products).

Now I have the problem getting Eclipse who have clearly not been very helpful over this (indeed may well know exactly what the problem is as a result of their actions) to get the speed up. If an ISP is selling you a product can you go to OFCOM if the ISP is withholding part of the product they are being paid to supply. Or is OFCOM so in the pockets of the firms that’s a nonstarter?

In reply to a post by john7:

Now I have the problem getting Eclipse who have clearly not been very helpful over this (indeed may well know exactly what the problem is as a result of their actions) to get the speed up. If an ISP is selling you a product can you go to OFCOM if the ISP is withholding part of the product they are being paid to supply. Or is OFCOM so in the pockets of the firms that’s a nonstarter?

I don't believe Ofcom is in the pockets of the ISPs. To be honest the ISPs make such little margin per customer, they don't have the money.

Have you tried a BT wholesale speed test?
https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/...

Post deleted by john7

Yes used that when regrading and since.
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 66 20 19 60
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 62.7 20 19 55

Interestingly it says
Max Observed Downstream Speed 50.92
Max Observed Upstream Speed 20
Observed Date 2020-06-05

Edited by john7 (Sun 23-Aug-20 15:59:26)

In reply to a post by john7:

Max Observed Downstream Speed 50.92
Max Observed Upstream Speed 20
Observed Date 2020-06-05

Does it say an IP profile rate?

You need to look at the numbers on the router, they're known as SYNC and tell you the physical speed between the green cabinet in the road and your router. The actual usable speed is often 10% or more below this figure as there are overheads in how PPPoE and TCP/IP work.

Thanks, until I rebooted the modem Saturday it was on 73.4 download so fits in with the range of speeds covering this line. All I have to do is get the lot at Eclipse to get rid of, whatever is limiting the download however it came to be put there. Then I will have to see about getting compensation out of them for all the stress in getting this sorted and the money we have been paying them for a service they have been restricting for over a month now. This will not be the first time some time ago I found they were restricting program/windows updats downloads. When pushed they admitted to it and that they had no right to do it so paid up compensation.

Edited by john7 (Sun 23-Aug-20 16:53:42)

In reply to a post by john7:

Thanks, untill I rebooted the modem Saterday it was on 73.4 download so fits in with the range of speeds covering this line. All I have to do is get the lot at Eclipse to get rid of, what ever is limiting the download howver it came to be put there.

You need to find if the BT Profile is low, if the profile is low then Eclipse will not be to blame.

Than I will have to see about geting copensation outv of them for all the stress in geting this sorted and the money we have been paying them for a service they have been restrictiing for over a month now.

It might not be Eclipse. They need to help you find the problem.

From the advanced test I get
Download speed achieved during the test was 39.04 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 40 - 61.93 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is 61.93 Mbps
39.04 Mbps
61.93 Mbps
Upload Test
Upload speed achieved during the test was 18.39 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is 20 Mbps

So does that tell me BT or Eclipse?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Three routers on the circuit? How many have DHCP enabled, how many with firewalls enabled?

AiMesh will solve that, one becomes a router, the others work as access points. ....

Useful information thanks, but AiMesh hadn't been mentioned when I asked the question. (Unless it is somewhere in his previous threads).

IP profile looks reasonable, but actual download speed is substantially below that, so might be congestion or a limit Eclipse are applying, e.g. some ISP mirror the IP profile but sometimes miss an update.

In reply to a post by john7:

So does that tell me BT or Eclipse?

The download profile is 61.93 Mbps so you should be getting high 50s in a speed test. Try all the tests, and if you are using WiFi try a speed test with a wired connection.

If you have security software (e.g. Kaspersky) on your computer, this may need to be removed to get an accurate test.

Eclipse need to fix this for you.

Thanks, I have disabled Norton which made no difference. I know the problems of Wi Fi but I have Net Analyser on my phone that’s coming up with the same results as via the PC. But all Ethernet tests tests with Norton enabled are being run under the same conditions as when I was getting into the 50’s download. So any effect will be the same over time and the results more or less comparable.

I am with Eclipse Kcom for 20 years, they do not throttle connections as far as I am aware, They are a Business ISP unless you are in the Hull area.

Where are you and how much do they charge you for the 80/20 connection.?

Try removing all connections to the Modem and only have your laptop/computer plugged in with an Ethernet cable and then do you speed test.

Put a post on https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php and ask about the Modems connection information and ask how you can improve it.

Net analyser and apps like it are pretty useless for diagnosing throughput issues with WiFi.
You need to cut WiFi out the equation altogether and do all speed tests wired.

WiFi scanning apps only show you that an SSID is present. They tell you nothing about the interference they are causing.
You can have 30 SSID's on the same WiFi channel as you and if they aren't being used they can cause no slow downs.
A single connection on the same channel as you can cripple throughput very easily while it is transferring data.

There's good reason why ISP's ask you to test over Ethernet cables and why you've been advised half a dozen times in this thread to use a wired connection.

Obviously with you getting low throughput via wired there are issues at the ISP's end. Just pointing out that Net Analyser is as useful as a chocolate fireguard when doing speed tests. You take need to do it wired.

With your I.P profile you should be getting speed tests in the high 50's.
Eclipse need to get to the bottom

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 24-Aug-20 00:35:02)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I am with Eclipse Kcom for 20 years, they do not throttle connections as far as I am aware, They are a Business ISP unless you are in the Hull area.

Where are you and how much do they charge you for the 80/20 connection.?

Try removing all connections to the Modem and only have your laptop/computer plugged in with an Ethernet cable and then do you speed test.

Put a post on https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php and ask about the Modems connection information and ask how you can improve it.

Thanks, I have had throttling from Eclipse when they throtled program/windows updats and they paid compensation whan I challanged them.

I am in Shropshire and am paying just over £60 for a pakage.
I tried direct to modem before but its a modem and it didn't work. BUT the setup is the same as when I was getting over 10Mb higher download speeds and the upload haven't changed.ve done as you sujested to the router and its exactly the same
Download speed achieved during the test was 39.05 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 40 - 61.93 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is 61.93 Mbps
39.05 Mbps
61.93 Mbps
Upload Test
Upload speed achieved during the test was 17.75 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is 20 Mbps
I think the Openrech engineer tried using a router and found the same which was when he said the line needed changing but that that probably wouldn't change anything as I now think he thought I was being throttled. I also had very poor as well as good support form Eclipse, we had a period when at a old house we had endless problems with support who blamed our equipment. It turned out there was a main network cable in need of replacement serving the village which had endless dry connation problems. It was only when one guy in Eclipse management became involved did they actually do something by which time we were dealing with the BT CEO as well. But Eclipse support were basically useless or worse than that just blaming us for the problem.
Regrettably we feel the poor side of support is what we have experienced this time as well. I can understand the problem at the present time, but after being 1st in que for over an hour we had a very hard to understand guy (I have poor hearing and am one hearing aid down but my wife struggled with him as well as me) who again said the line tested OK the problem is on our side and told us how much it would cost for us to get an engineer out and then arranged one but never fallowed it up by updating the ticket or an e-mail

Edited by john7 (Mon 24-Aug-20 09:46:10)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Net analyser and apps like it are pretty useless for diagnosing throughput issues with WiFi.
You need to cut WiFi out the equation altogether and do all speed tests wired.

WiFi scanning apps only show you that an SSID is present. They tell you nothing about the interference they are causing.
You can have 30 SSID's on the same WiFi channel as you and if they aren't being used they can cause no slow downs.
A single connection on the same channel as you can cripple throughput very easily while it is transferring data.

There's good reason why ISP's ask you to test over Ethernet cables and why you've been advised half a dozen times in this thread to use a wired connection.

Obviously with you getting low throughput via wired there are issues at the ISP's end. Just pointing out that Net Analyser is as useful as a chocolate fireguard when doing speed tests. You take need to do it wired.

With your I.P profile you should be getting speed tests in the high 50's.
Eclipse need to get to the bottom

I agree thats why all the speed tests used have been ethernet.

Looking at the speed tests before regrading to the 80/20 package I see they are the same download as I am getting now. It looks like someone has kindly thought I was still on the old product and adjusted the down speed. Been through to Eclipse, all I got in support was the guy we had before so asked for another one who actually sorted a number of problems. He is meant to be phoning back sometime today.

Very please with my self as I managed to find how to get better lins stats out of the 130 No idea if they cast any light?

There do look to be a very high number of errors at the cabinet end of these logs if my understanding is right?

Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 63981000 bps US Actual Rate : 20000000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 64158760 bps US Attainable Rate : 20792921 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 12 dB Cur SNR Margin : 6 dB
DS actual PSD : 3. 1 dB US actual PSD : 3. 3 dB
NE CRC Count : 5 FE CRC Count : 38517
NE ES Count : 4 FE ES Count : 37612
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 1
ITU Version[0] : fe004452 ITU Version[1] : 41590000

---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------

Near End Far End Note
Trellis : 1 1
Bitswap : 1 1
ReTxEnable : 0 0
VirtualNoise : 0 0
20BitSupport : 0 0
LatencyPath : 0 0
LOS : 0 0
LOF : 0 0
LPR : 0 0
LOM : 0 0
SosSuccess : 0 0
NCD : 0 0
LCD : 0 0
FECS : 135 104909 (seconds)
ES : 4 37612 (seconds)
SES : 0 63 (seconds)
LOSS : 0 313 (seconds)
UAS : 33 10375 (seconds)
HECError : 0 0
CRC : 5 38517
RsCorrection : 0 0
INP : 0 0 (symbols)
InterleaveDelay : 0 0 (1/100 ms)
NFEC : 255 255
RFEC : 16 16
LSYMB : 5410 17146
INTLVBLOCK : 255 255
AELEM : 0 ----
>

Edited by john7 (Mon 24-Aug-20 14:50:06)

Eclipse have now said yes there is problem and they will have to find what the cause is. Why its taken so long with the same information available all the way through of the large discrepancy between sync and actual download speed is difficult to see other than the original support person just didn’t look at what there was in front of them. Now they are to run tests to find the problem and hopefully someone will let me know what’s going on and even more hopefully get the cap lifted whatever has caused it.

It turns out Eclipse is capping the down speed. Eclipse sold me a 80/20 upgrade, but now told Eclipse doesn't do these for consumers so they are capping it. Support are trying to work out what to do/go from here now. I am baffled, they upgraded the speeds, the speeds were in 50’s for over a month then I take it someone at Eclipse spotted me and shoved a cap on but they are still charging me for the now caped upgrade.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I am with Eclipse Kcom for 20 years, they do not throttle connections as far as I am aware, They are a Business ISP unless you are in the Hull area.

Where are you and how much do they charge you for the 80/20 connection.?

Try removing all connections to the Modem and only have your laptop/computer plugged in with an Ethernet cable and then do you speed test.

Put a post on https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php and ask about the Modems connection information and ask how you can improve it.

They are capping me see last post I added as they have admitted it now.

In reply to a post by john7:

I am baffled, they upgraded the speeds, the speeds were in 50’s for over a month then I take it someone at Eclipse spotted me and shoved a cap on but they are still charging me for the now caped upgrade.

I would make a formal complaint to the senior management, by writing a (paper) letter to someone such as the chief exec, and ask to be released from any contract.

Moving to a better, honest, ISP, that doesn't take your money for no service is the next step.

They do still do 80Mb download, 20Mb upload – £45.00 per month + VAT as they just quoted me for it on FTTP (and also a lot of other speeds/prices !).

You do not want to talk to the 'Script Monkeys' on the end of the phone you always want to ask for there manager !. that's with any ISP or firms you phone up.

Sounds like something happened when they moved over to Kcom some time ago.


Sending you a PM with someone to get in touch with at Eclipse.

Edited by APTMAN (Sat 29-Aug-20 11:34:53)