In reply to a post by Iniltous:

As far as sign up rates , OR run at about 30-33% , City Fibre ( last figure I saw ) was around 10%.

Agreed on cable, the old coax areas are old. I wonder if the CityFibre numbers will increase now big operators such as Sky are going to use them. Openreach could end up with duplicate infrastructure and less customers, and perhaps having only the majority in rural areas.

Next 5 to 10 years will be interesting, as VM also plan to replace all the coax with FTTP.

As I stated , personally I think VM are more exposed to customers switching to Alt Nets than Openreach , price sensitive customers with a choice of VM or OR likely are already with VM .
Sky using CF is good for Sky , and on first impressions bad for BT Group, especially from the overblown negative impact on the share price, but no where does this announcement say CF are the preferred network for Sky , ( as with Vodafone ) in fact Sky apparently see it as a way to expand into areas not covered by OR FTTP not as a replacement of OR .

…..OR are restricted from lowering prices by the regulator , if a big player like Sky are available on CF , the regulator can hardly use lack of competition in the wholesale market as a reason to continue to hamstring OR , I suspect this will prove to be another case of be careful what you wish for , no doubt CF ( already a financial basket case ) will need to offer Sky a ‘killer’ deal , breaking even on every wholesale Sky customer is hardly likely to improve their bottom line, the next OR Equinox deal will further damage CF bottom line as they reduce their own prices to stay competitive if the next OR wholesale price is reduced further .
Your suggestion that CF replaces OR as the major player, and OR become the minor one , and only relevant in areas not covered by CF is errant nonsense, even CF are not suggesting that

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 23-Aug-24 12:19:56)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Agreed on cable, the old coax areas are old.

All Telford on old coax cable from VM. They have no plan to changed it.

Take-up is notoriously difficult to get stats on beyond what providers tell you and let's just say we know providers' availability stats are rather optimistic to put it mildly.

If someone is happy with an FTTC or even ADSL service I can see why they woulnd't care about FTTP coming. Yes new provides should be on FTTP irrespective of what speed you want in most cases. It's not necessarily cheaper for a provider to provide a legacy service than a new full fibre one (in fact may be opposite).

In reply to a post by adslmax:

All Telford on old coax cable from VM. They have no plan to changed it.

Sorry but VM have announced the entire country that has coax cable will be upgraded to FTTP, by 2030.

Not much wrong with the coax, still manages gigabit download, and in the US they're going much faster over coax with DOCSIS 4.0

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/07/virgin...

https://www.telecomstechnews.com/news/virgin-media-w...

In reply to a post by seb:

Take-up is notoriously difficult to get stats on beyond what providers tell you and let's just say we know providers' availability stats are rather optimistic to put it mildly.

Not surprised, all the companies will want to treat the information as internally confidential.

If someone is happy with an FTTC or even ADSL service I can see why they woulnd't care about FTTP coming. Yes new provides should be on FTTP irrespective of what speed you want in most cases. It's not necessarily cheaper for a provider to provide a legacy service than a new full fibre one (in fact may be opposite).

That makes sense if you're on the same network, but some ISPs may want to move you to a different network (e.g. Openreach FTTC to CityFibre FTTP) where the build is available.

I suspect the "cherry" areas are now nearing completion and the more complex and costly areas to come, with many MDU's being skipped by CF or alt-nets, and with OR not yet having approached the building owners, its going to be interesting to see if the growth stalls at some point.

Yeah I can see how ISPs may want to move you

In reply to a post by seb:

Yeah I can see how ISPs may want to move you

I wonder how much percentage of urban and rural UK will have more than one wholesale operator.... perhaps when VM start to wholesale the DOCSIS network things will get ... interesting (or cut-throat!).

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by seb:

Yeah I can see how ISPs may want to move you

I wonder how much percentage of urban and rural UK will have more than one wholesale operator.... perhaps when VM start to wholesale the DOCSIS network things will get ... interesting (or cut-throat!).

Urban will probably be quite significant. Rural will depend on the extend of overbuild vs consolidation:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/assets/factsheet/broa...

Check page 11 on overbuild.. Already 22% have this (across UK as a whole).. We haven't published the splits..

In reply to a post by michaelh:

From The Times Today:

"Openreach is reaching about a million new premises every quarter and is targeting 25 million by the end of 2026"

However, it does not say how many of those premises actually sign up for FTTP when it becomes available

A lot of people change when they change/renew contracts, as a lot of providers give them very little choice or makes it more expensive to stay on FTTP.

As some people on here know, that is what happened to me, being on Plusnet FTTC for over 9 years and was fine with that, had no need to go fro anything faster and certainly had no interest in FTTP. Came to the end of the contract, Plusnet pushing FTTP, would not give me a decent offer for FTTC and then wanted me to sign up for 24 months. Started to look around for another FTTC provider, but found that most were pushing me to FTTP. Zzoomm sent me a offer of 500Mb.s FTTP for £24 a month for 12 months, so I thought if I was being pushed to FTTP, I may as well get of Openreach and go for a better network.

I find that is happening a lot with people I chat to, they have no interest in FTTP as what they have does what they need, but their providers are pushing them to FTTP and once they do get on there they get emails upselling. Not everyone need super-duper speed and fine with even 36Mb/s.

The only advantage I find with the faster speed is when I download software or much about with Linux distros. I did find it useful last week when at my partner's place, I wanted to get some files from my NAS, 500Mb/s upload helped with that, but then she has FTTP as well.

The problem for a lot of people is the 24 month contract they are pushed into, but that happens with FTTC and FTTH, need to be stopped and go back to at least 18 months and that is too much.
I would still be using Plusnet FTTC if they did not try to push me to FTTP, if Zzoomm was not here i would have gone for something like Now FTTC.