Homeplugs killing IP profile

Afternoon all,

I've been running my fibre broadband for a few months and it appears to have remained solid at around a 71Mb line profile.
I purchased some Solwise 1200AV2 homeplugs for using for the PC upstairs, PS4 and PS3. I was having issues with getting them working at first as the max download speed I could achieve was roughly 1Mb. This has since sorted itself and has been pulling in files around 7.2MB/s. This has since dropped to roughly 6.5MB/s and my IPprofile has now gone from 71Mb to 62Mb.

For the record I have only powered off the ECI modem twice in the past week so I doubt it is due to me disconnecting etc.

Can the IP profile fluctuate or should that remain pretty constant?
I'm guessing the homeplugs are causing interference with the modem which is causing issues to my profile?

The modem and router are plugged into the rear of the homeplug via the filtered passthrough connection.

In reply to a post by michty_me:

I'm guessing the homeplugs are causing interference with the modem which is causing issues to my profile?

Very likely. Homeplugs transmit in the range from about 2MHz to 30MHz or higher and are known to radiate from some mains installations. VDSL broadband uses up to 10-15MHz. If you have overhead telephone and mains wiring of possibly it is quite possible this is the reason though I have not heard it mentioned before.

In reply to a post by dsergeant:

In reply to a post by michty_me:

I'm guessing the homeplugs are causing interference with the modem which is causing issues to my profile?

Very likely. Homeplugs transmit in the range from about 2MHz to 30MHz or higher and are known to radiate from some mains installations. VDSL broadband uses up to 10-15MHz. If you have overhead telephone and mains wiring of possibly it is quite possible this is the reason though I have not heard it mentioned before.

In the UK VDSL2 uses up to 17.664 MHz - that is why it is called profile 17a

Thanks, I just discovered a powerbrick connected directly next to the homeplug and not through the filter. This has now been moved to the filtered rear of the homeplug. I'll leave it over night again and see if it has any effect.

71 to 62mbps is consistent with the reduction you might expect from interleaving being turned on. That can happen if the line has become unstable. Stats from the modem ought to tell you whether interleaving is on or not (and the difference between the data rate and the maximum achievable will be high - perhaps 8-9mbps).

In reply to a post by TheEulerID:

71 to 62mbps is consistent with the reduction you might expect from interleaving being turned on. That can happen if the line has become unstable. Stats from the modem ought to tell you whether interleaving is on or not (and the difference between the data rate and the maximum achievable will be high - perhaps 8-9mbps).

That makes sense then as my ping times have increased a good amount too.
I don't think I can get router stats on my modem/router combo. I think the best thing to do is remove them from the mains and wait to see if my line recovers. Ill need to check my internal wiring when I power down the modem as there are several extensions on the circuit. It just seems to be too much of a coincidence to me after having months of stability to using the homeplugs.

I have 3 Devolo 500 AV units. One is right next to the VDSL master socket, plugged into a power socket. FTTC has been running at 60/20 for the past 9 months with no drop outs or change in sync (interleaving etc).

Could possibly be down build quality of the units, I suppose. I don't know enough to say, or know anything about Solwise compared to Devolo. I do notice some high pitch sound emanating from the Devolo unit when a high amount of traffic is passing through it, but as I said, I see no detrimental affect on the VDSL sync speed.

One thing I do have is a shielded RJ11 cable coming from the master socket into the BT VDSL modem. But I do wonder if that really helps at all considering the normal unshielded phone cable coming into the socket is still in close proximity to the Devolo unit. Only reason I have a shielded RJ11 is because I just like to do things "right", where at all possible.

Not sure what else to suggest other than swap to an alternative brand (if you really feel it is the units causing the problems) or downgrade back to 40/10 (which I do plan to do once my contract is up) which will not push the line sync as high, making it more stable.

In reply to a post by mixt:

I have 3 Devolo 500 AV units. One is right next to the VDSL master socket, plugged into a power socket. FTTC has been running at 60/20 for the past 9 months with no drop outs or change in sync (interleaving etc).

Could possibly be down build quality of the units, I suppose. I don't know enough to say, or know anything about Solwise compared to Devolo. I do notice some high pitch sound emanating from the Devolo unit when a high amount of traffic is passing through it, but as I said, I see no detrimental affect on the VDSL sync speed.

One thing I do have is a shielded RJ11 cable coming from the master socket into the BT VDSL modem. But I do wonder if that really helps at all considering the normal unshielded phone cable coming into the socket is still in close proximity to the Devolo unit. Only reason I have a shielded RJ11 is because I just like to do things "right", where at all possible.

Not sure what else to suggest other than swap to an alternative brand (if you really feel it is the units causing the problems) or downgrade back to 40/10 (which I do plan to do once my contract is up) which will not push the line sync as high, making it more stable.

I'm not sure about build quality being an issue or not as I thought solwise items were regarded as on par with the devolo brand.

It is very coincidental that I've developed a line fault on the same day as installing the homeplugs. I might go through all my internal wiring and disconnect extensions that are not being used. See if I can find anything physically wrong first. I should have probably just stuck with WiFi but thought home plugs may have been better for ping times on the ps4/ps3

In reply to a post by mixt:

One thing I do have is a shielded RJ11 cable coming from the master socket into the BT VDSL modem. But I do wonder if that really helps at all considering the normal unshielded phone cable coming into the socket is still in close proximity to the Devolo unit. Only reason I have a shielded RJ11 is because I just like to do things "right", where at all possible.

Not sure what else to suggest other than swap to an alternative brand (if you really feel it is the units causing the problems) or downgrade back to 40/10 (which I do plan to do once my contract is up) which will not push the line sync as high, making it more stable.

I forgot to add that I use shielded cables for everything that I could change in that area to prevent this exact issue.

In reply to a post by michty_me:

In reply to a post by mixt:

I have 3 Devolo 500 AV units. One is right next to the VDSL master socket, plugged into a power socket. FTTC has been running at 60/20 for the past 9 months with no drop outs or change in sync (interleaving etc).

Could possibly be down build quality of the units, I suppose. I don't know enough to say, or know anything about Solwise compared to Devolo. I do notice some high pitch sound emanating from the Devolo unit when a high amount of traffic is passing through it, but as I said, I see no detrimental affect on the VDSL sync speed.

One thing I do have is a shielded RJ11 cable coming from the master socket into the BT VDSL modem. But I do wonder if that really helps at all considering the normal unshielded phone cable coming into the socket is still in close proximity to the Devolo unit. Only reason I have a shielded RJ11 is because I just like to do things "right", where at all possible.

Not sure what else to suggest other than swap to an alternative brand (if you really feel it is the units causing the problems) or downgrade back to 40/10 (which I do plan to do once my contract is up) which will not push the line sync as high, making it more stable.

I'm not sure about build quality being an issue or not as I thought solwise items were regarded as on par with the devolo brand.

It is very coincidental that I've developed a line fault on the same day as installing the homeplugs. I might go through all my internal wiring and disconnect extensions that are not being used. See if I can find anything physically wrong first. I should have probably just stuck with WiFi but thought home plugs may have been better for ping times on the ps4/ps3

Mistake number #2. I've just realised that the OR engineer never used my shielded cables. I'm going to add these tomorrow when I'm checking the internal wiring. I found a few threads with the same issue as myself and a shielded RJ11 cable has resolved a lot of issues.

I can vouch for the quality of Devolo. When I first tried homeplugs I had terrible trouble with more than one brand and eventually ended up with Devolo. Not cheap by any means, but did the trick

Having said that you are gradually discovering that all sorts of interference can wreck speeds, much depending on the quality and age of your wiring

Devolo were my first initial choice but I wanted something with passthrough and more than 1 gigabit ethernet port.
I'm away out to get some ferrite cores as some supplies around my house are bare. Especially close to the homeplug. If this does not help I think they will be going back. I've changed the RJ11 cable to a shielded one now also. I guess I will have to wait until the DLM decided to put me back on fastpath or reduce the interleaving.

Ping times have increased from 27ms to 42ms (Pinging BBC)

Have you tried moving the homeplug to a power socket further away from the modem's power supply?

I don't know how many sockets you have available, in my house there's never enough.

In reply to a post by obroad:

Have you tried moving the homeplug to a power socket further away from the modem's power supply?

I don't know how many sockets you have available, in my house there's never enough.

No not yet. Mainly due to that if I do that, I will need to run a cat5 cable to another room to reach the router/homeplug which sort of defeats the purpose.

Edit: I've now installed ferrites on the modem power supply along with a shielded twisted pair RJ11 cable. I'll leave it a few days to see if DLM reduces the interleaving. If not then they will be removed and trusty WiFi will be used instead.

Edited by deleted (Thu 12-Feb-15 17:00:45)

Units have been boxed back up and are being returned today. Overnight I think the DLM has kicked in again and increased me another interleaving point. My ping times have gone from 27ms to 44ms and a total loss of speed from 71Mb to 54Mb in the space of two days.

In reply to a post by obroad:

Have you tried moving the homeplug to a power socket further away from the modem's power supply?

I don't know how many sockets you have available, in my house there's never enough.

My IP Profile has now started recovering. The ping has dropped 10ms and profile has gone from 48Mb to 63Mb.

Ok well it looks like my pings have returned to normal which is approx 24ms pinging the BBC. However, My line speed still shows 65Mb. I'm tempted to reboot the modem to force a re-sync to see if that shows me syncing at the original 75Mb instead of the 65Mb it is currently showing in Zens customer portal. Or should I just leave it?

I really don't know why anyone uses Homeplugs. They are about as useful as the proverbial chocolate teapot and are just for the lazy. I've tried them as an experiment and they are useless. Does anyone consider a speed over Homeplugs of 10% of your connection speed to be adequate? The only way to go is to run Ethernet cable to wherever a connection is needed. Either under floorboards or using external Ethernet cable to get from upstairs to downstairs with out spoiling the decoration. Probably 10 % of the cost of Homeplugs and with 100% connection speed. Just involves a little effort and bit of common sense.

Edited by deleted (Wed 18-Mar-15 21:18:56)

That's the plan now. I'm pulling the carpet up soon to replace and also sort some duff floorboards so when they are up, I'll be dropping a few runs of Ethernet cable in. Wish I never bothered with them but thought I would give them a try.

Good for you. It'll be far cheaper than Homeplugs and 10 x the performance. There is always a way to run a cable neatly with a little thought. Hope you can get a refund on them.
Personally I think Homeplugs should be banned as not fit for purpose. They are just a con.

Yeah I got a refund on the day I noticed an issue. Solwise were trying to assist me in getting it to work properly but as soon as I questioned about them causing interference with FTTC they haven't responded since.

BTW when you run the cables under the floor boards make sure they are not running close along side any power cables. Ok to cross a power cable at 90 degrees. When I installed mine I drilled addition holes in the joists for the network cables a good 4/6" away from any power. Don't want to do all that work and end up with crosstalk interference.

Yeah I'll remember to do that. Never thought about drilling holes though. That's a good plan. Thanks for the tip. Think I'll be alright to reboot my BT modem now as all ping times have recovered.

Really interesting the issues you have had.
I have used HomePlugs for about a year without any issues. I have these connected at opposite ends of the house.

I have main router in the living room (front of house). This is connected to a homeplug.

Then at the back of the house I have the second Homeplug. Into this is another router.
So I have 2 routers, one at the front of the house, one at the back. This ensures good WiFI all over the house.

Both routers have the same wireless network name: SKY81192
Devices only see it as 1 network and seamlessly hop onto whichever signal is best.

The speeds are 73Mbps on both routers. No slowdown on the homeplugs.

I use this set:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-PA411KIT-Powerline-A...

For the record my connection has not dropped out for 1200 hours now.
The 2nd homeplug router has been on for 6000 hours without being turned off.
So that must mean the Homeplug and router have been on for 6000 hours.

I think you had some faulty devices.

Every single device in my house uses WiFi, approx. 30 devices.
My SkyHub (front of house) has been on for 1200 hours now, but I've had it on for 6 months solid before without a reboot.

EDIT: Maybe try out the set I use?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 18-Mar-15 22:44:26)

Work out what you need and where.

Where you think you need a single run, install two. Where you think you need two, install four cables. You do not have to terminate them immediately and can do it later on however, you will soon find uses for all.

Run them all back to a patch panel - in a cupboard and install a switch there too. It does not have to be where the hub/router is. You can then link your router to that switch ...

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

I really don't know why anyone uses Homeplugs. They are about as useful as the proverbial chocolate teapot and are just for the lazy.

Other's experience is not necessarily the same as yours. There are reasons why it can be difficult to run cables. I used to run homeplugs and happily got around 80Mbps throughput on them which was more than enough for my broadband - and this was about 5 years ago.

I also have 2 different family members who run homeplugs in their homes and they do just fine for them as well. They aren't cheap but where cabling is difficult or completely ruled out then they serve a purpose that would be difficult to do in other ways.

Running cables may be a simple task for me actually as I have noticed in my newly purchased house which is 15 years old, There are cables running to the top corners of every room. They all run back to a cupboard under the stairs and were initially installed for an alarm system which the previous owners never used.

The cables appear to be a two wire cable so I'm tempted to use these to pull in CAT5E cable back to cupboard under the stairs. Directly through this wall is where my router and modem sit!!!!
I would just have to try and drop each cable down to floor board level and create a wired connection in each room.

What could possibly go wrong haha.

As for the Home plugs. I don't feel like I would use them again. Not sure if it was due to me having the homeplugs, Modems and router all connected into the same socket but it was the only choice I had.

That could be messy! Much better to do it at floor level. You could however use a couple of those for wall mounted WAPs.

Thats what I meant when I said to drop to floorboard level. I actually meant to skirting board level rather than the top corener of the room. Should make cable pulling very simple.

I rebooted the modem and it appears my speed still hasn't recovered. Looks like I'll be waiting a further good few weeks for improvement. DLM sucks. It quickly adds things to stabilise the line but it is extremely slow in removing. This is currently week 4-5 and I'm still not fully back to normal.

At least my pings have returned to normal though so hopefully the next step is full sync speed.

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

Good for you. It'll be far cheaper than Homeplugs and 10 x the performance. There is always a way to run a cable neatly with a little thought. Hope you can get a refund on them.
Personally I think Homeplugs should be banned as not fit for purpose. They are just a con.

Your opinion mate, for others they meet a demand where running fixed wiring would be extremely difficult and in some cases impossible. In my case I have one master home plug feeding 3 slave units

My test results produced the following results:
PC 1 hardwired into router
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

PC 2 connected with home plug
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Next to no difference with these test results. And how you can suggest it will be 10* times the performance using fixed wiring is beyond my comprehension.

HD streaming to the two TVs connected via home plugs are just fine with no buffering.

Using the 200 version of these:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-PA411KIT-Powerline-A...

£50 and the job was done in 30 minutes to one PC and two TVs. Hardwiring would not have saved very much money and would have probably taken a day or so to be up and running or an arm and a leg to have a tradesman do the installation.

I don't need the net police to ban such products, they will do exactly what they say on the tin providing they are connected directly to the wall socket that is on a ring main. I will concede that their performance is diabolical on spur wiring, e.g. to the garden shed, kitted out as a home office.

You have an extra colon : at the end of your 2nd link

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You have an extra colon : at the end of your 2nd link

That's really odd how that has crept in but removal of that colon and the link works fine or you can use this-
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

I agree they have a place and for the internet they will normally keep up with your connection speed. If you have/use a home network to move large amounts of data from one machine to another for any reason, eg backup, then the wired network will win every time. This assumes of course that machines and switches are rigged for Gb. A couple of my older machines have 100mb NICs and they would be the limiting factor.

In reply to a post by philippercival:

I agree they have a place and for the internet they will normally keep up with your connection speed. If you have/use a home network to move large amounts of data from one machine to another for any reason, eg backup, then the wired network will win every time. This assumes of course that machines and switches are rigged for Gb. A couple of my older machines have 100mb NICs and they would be the limiting factor.

Of course you are right on every count but this thread has a contributor who stated that home plugs were a complete con when clearly they are not.

The utopia of a network you describe, and the network usage envisage thereon, is IMHO not very common in a home environment. Stating that scenario here only serves to muddy the waters when discussing the merits, or otherwise, of PoE plugs in the home.

I posted that comment on the basis that if you pay for something that's not worth it, it's a con. How can anyone justify paying £25 an more for Homeplugs when you can run cat 5e/6 cable for around 10% of the cost and get far better and stable connectivity which is also capable of much faster speeds in the future. All it needs to run cable is a bit of thought about how to route them and a basic ability in DIY. It's not rocket science to run them and terminate them correctly, or even just run ready made cable with the connectors already fitted.

Whoops sorry, I see that I did not actually mention them, but I was supporting the use of home plugs. I have bought them for others on two occasions, and they worked well. I suspect that home networks perhaps with as NAS drive for backing up, may be more common than you think.

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

I posted that comment on the basis that if you pay for something that's not worth it, it's a con. How can anyone justify paying £25 an more for Homeplugs when you can run cat 5e/6 cable for around 10% of the cost and get far better and stable connectivity which is also capable of much faster speeds in the future. All it needs to run cable is a bit of thought about how to route them and a basic ability in DIY. It's not rocket science to run them and terminate them correctly, or even just run ready made cable with the connectors already fitted.

Re: 10% of the cost. Hmm, I don't think so. I grant you that hardwiring IS a superior job but from time to time home plugs are the only practical solution.

So supplying a data service to three locations in the home requires [at retail prices]:
1 - Cat5e UTP PVC Solid Cable [Interior Use] - 100mt Grey £24
4 - RJ45 Cat5e Module in a Single Gang Faceplate - £10.85
4 - 1-Gang Surface Pattress Box 40mm White - £6.72
1 - Clips, raw plugs, screws - £2
1 - Punch down tool - £35
8 - Snagless Booted Cat5e RJ45 Patch Cables 0.5m - £9.05
Total £87.62 + a day DIY installation time

OR

2 - TP-LINK PA411KIT AV500 500 Mbps Powerline Adapter Starter Kit [Twin Pack] - £49
Total £49 + less than 30 minutes DIY installation time.

You might be able to reduce the cost of a hardwired solution a bit but in essence there isn't much difference in the price for either method. Ready terminated Cat5e cable requires a much larger hole through walls which could well be unacceptable from a d�cor point of view.

What a stupid reply. Where do you shop - Harrods?
100m cat5e cable £12.00
4x RJ45 faceplates with backpoxes = £12.99
Krone style insertion tool = £1.99
8x snagless cat 5e 0.5 m patch cables = £8
Sundries = £0.50
All prices inc carriage. Total = £35
Time to install = a few hours for anyone with half a brain.
And the satisfaction of knowing that something has been done properly.
Seriously????

Homeplugs are still in the same price range, without the installation nightmare.

True, but Homeplugs are still the amateur way of doing things. I hardly call the installation a nightmare, lifting a few carpets, floor boards and drilling a few holes. Personally I just consider that a minor DIY job. But each to their own I guess.

Do you cut your own hair?

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

What a stupid reply. Where do you shop - Harrods?
100m cat5e cable £12.00
4x RJ45 faceplates with backpoxes = £12.99
Krone style insertion tool = £1.99
8x snagless cat 5e 0.5 m patch cables = £8
Sundries = £0.50
All prices inc carriage. Total = £35
Time to install = a few hours for anyone with half a brain.
And the satisfaction of knowing that something has been done properly.
Seriously????

Seldom buy such items myself but anyone embarking on such a project would pay such prices in B&Q. As I have mentioned previously in this thread, hardwired is best but not always practical to do it that way and therefore home plugs represent value for money and a reasonable solution. Now where do your buy 8 No8 25mm long screws with raw plugs + a box of a hundred clips for just 50p - you are having a laugh there! And use of a plastic Krone tool as well when you talk about doing a job properly. These components are not sold in Harrods BTW .

It's not a plastic Krone insertion tool http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Network-BT-Telephone-Socke... You obviously like to waste your money and you've just guessed at the prices. If you check B&Q they don't even sell a lot of the items. Most of us research the best way to buy items instead of blindly going to a high street DIY shop and pay top dollar. Would anyone seriously go out and buy a new box of screws, rawlplugs and cable clips to do a simple job like this. Anyway most of the items needed come with mounting screws and rawlplugs as anyone knows. I wouldn't even need cable clips as all the cable would be hidden under floorboards. Even at your price of £2 for sundries makes little difference to the overall cost. Why exaggerate prices just to try and prove your case?

Edited by deleted (Thu 19-Mar-15 23:44:18)

Cable clips - I pay that sort of price for basic round clips.

Who sells No8x25 mm screws? 3.5 or 4 x 25 mm maybe ... and they come in at lest than 0.5p each

Patch cables, can be less than £1 each too

There are metal insertion tools available at £1.50 to £2 each - I woud not suggest they are good for thousands of connections but for this amount, will be fine.

Absolutely, totally agree with everything you say. I expect most of us have got loads of useable bits and pieces in our garages anyway. Whatever the cost of these sundries it's pretty irrelevant to the overall total. I think the major component is the desire to do something properly.

Maybe.

If you go back over my posts for many years you will see that I always suggest wired and not the mains wiring solution. It is the only real way to provide high quality reliable connectivity.

I used well over 600m of Cat5e and a lot of Cat6 when cabling around two thirds of my house ... still more to do.

A man after my own heart.

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

True, but Homeplugs are still the amateur way of doing things. I hardly call the installation a nightmare, lifting a few carpets, floor boards and drilling a few holes. Personally I just consider that a minor DIY job. But each to their own I guess.

Totally agree wired is best, 100%! I would be wired if I could be.

My downstairs is laminated, and tiled. I lifted up the laminate before and it cracked. I would have to drill the cemented tiles out to lay cabling under it.

In my situation wired is just not possible.

I would have to lay a wire from one end of the living room to the other, under laminate, then get it through the wall into the hallway, my doors are fireproof and there is no room to fit a cable under or around so drilling required... From here the cabling would need to go under approx 15m length of tiles (drill them up?), then it would need to get into the kitchen, the wall here is behind the kitchen units - so I guess I would have to pull the units off the wall to get a wire through. I would then need to lay it under the kitchen tiling (again do I drill it up). From here into the back room, under more laminate, then into the garage this is concrete, don't know how to hide the wiring in here... then finally through the wall into where the second router is. & that is the most logical route.

Hence homeplugs are used. They cost me a total of £24.99 at the time and work flawless 24/7.

I fully understand in your situation that its just not practical. I wouldn't want to pull up laminate floors or drill out cemented tile either. I've one area where laminate floor is laid quite a few years ago, but fortunately I installed cable under the floorboards before doing so. However its only CAT5 not 5e or 6. Only a short length and seems to support Gigabit AOK, but I'm guessing one day it will need to be upgraded. Unless the laminate needs to be replaced, I will drill through the wall to the outside from the office at the front of the house and run external ethernet round the side to the back and through the wall of the room and termiunate it with a CAT 6 box. The cable will be around 12 foot off the ground so well out of reach.

Interestingly I had not considered running the cabling around the exterior of the house, that would work. If I need to upgrade will do that.

I can point you to a supplier that can provide external Cat5e or Cat6 and even armoured versions. ANd if you need it, 25 pair so you could run 6 circuits through it. They will also supply it by the metre and offer an excellent service.

I recently decided to do something about weak WiFi. I bought a 'Devolo Dlan' set and having installed everything found that instead of getting my usual 15-17Mbps over WiFi I was getting 2-3Mbps download. I took it back, got my money back and then I bought a box of external cat5e, sockets and patch cables. Clips, screws, drill bits etc. etc. even a punchdown tool were already in my 'might come in useful again' collection.

I didn't think about running cable internally as it was so much easier to run it externally. I even managed to use the same hole that the Sky installer had drilled in one place to get an extra two cables through. All the sockets are on external walls and I bought ones with vertical outlets.

I now get a steady 37Mbps and my outlay was to within a few pence the same as the mains network kit although I may spend a bit more at some point and put in a WiFi AP at one of the sockets later.

Mains networking must work for some people but it was worse than useless for me.

As long as you use external grade cat cable which is not that much dearer than standard. Only difference is its outer cover is made to withstand the elements.

Some of us have an other 1/2 who does not want holes in the house, but does want Internet access in all of the rooms. Home plug fits the bill.

If I could get cable (cat 5/6) in the house I would have, but when built, the builders looked at me strangely when I mentioned. I did manage to get power sockets on most walls.

I understand what you are saying, but if it's done in a professional manner, then there's would virtually be no sign of any cabling or holes. All cable would be under floor inc between room, any ingress into the house from external would be into a properly fitted wall plate. Ultimately how good a job it is will be determined by the quality of work done and the effort someone has put into the installation. Unfortunately in "Bodge up Britain" there are too many who can't even wire up a plug successfully. When I used to visit houses a few years ago in my job I saw so many DIY wiring disasters, cables running up walls, tacked to skirting boards, cables running across stairs and so on. Some of these were done by so called professionals. The mind boggles.