Definition of "Web space"?

I'm asking this just to make sure that I'm not understanding this wrong.

If an ISP made this claim about its product on its own web site:- "Each package includes 250MB of free premium UK web space", what would be your understanding of the term "web space".

Thanks in advance.

You have 250MB of web space to play with...simples. Seriously, what else could it mean?

DrT

Webspace is disk space on a web server used to store html pages and other content that you can access through a browser.

Edited by deleted (Sun 11-Mar-12 19:09:02)

But "premium"? Is it somehow faster than the norm?

Could well be, I guess it's on Xilo's premium UK web servers.

The OP raised this with us today and I replied with the following:

Unfortunately, that isn't how the allocation works. Some could argue that 250MB "web" space is for an amount of space for your account hosted on the "web".

The amount is collective, so if you do find that you need more space, you would need switch to a shared hosting account. If you had 250MB of files and then received an email, it would be queued until you had enough space, up to 7 days before being returned to the sender.

I will however look at modifying that page to give greater clarity as it is the first time anyone has queried the term.

We regard web space as the entire space allocated to an account to be used however the account holder wants. It could be used all for files, or even emails.

What people define as "web space" varies* so we have changed the text slightly to indicate it is for both so there is no further confusion.

Matt

* others regard web space to include emails too.

It's hosted on the same platform as our premium hosting

Matt

Talking of Xilo, when is there web site going to go live?

Other things have taken priority and as we would rather focus on existing customers with existing or new requirements, it is a little down the priority list.

Matt

Ok Matt fair enough, i was following the link in your sig, found your other site now.

Was looking for hosting and thought I'd have a look at your prices.

Drop us a line if we can help with any hosting requirements.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

Drop us a line if we can help with any hosting requirements.

Matt

Only one question Matt. Is the free domain only for the first year?

It's for the initial term of the domain, i.e for .com 1 year and for .uk, 2 years.

Matt

Cheers Matt, prices look good enough for me.

In reply to a post by Kimi:

Cheers Matt, prices look good enough for me.

The hosting is brilliant too. Tech support is top hole, they sorted a problem that had my previous hosting company foxed.

The only *minor* downside is that they do not use Apache server software, but LiteSpeed. It does the job but any configuring or tweaking that you may wish to do via the .htaccess file may not work.

DrT

In reply to a post by DrTeeth:

It does the job but any configuring or tweaking that you may wish to do via the .htaccess file may not work.

99% of directives will work exactly the same.... just not the one that you were using

Matt

Matt, its ok saying that you are changing the wording now but its a bit late as I've been a customer for 15 months.

For the benefit of others, this is what happened. On saturday morning I received an email from Xilo stating that I had almost reached my 250mb disc space allowance. I knew that my web site was only at 169mb so I raised a ticket with Xilo. To cut to the chase, I had several spam emails sent to me overnight with large attachments. I deleted these on the server without downloading them. Matt said that it would have been these emails that triggered the warning email.

The "Each package includes 250MB of free premium UK web space" claim on Uno's website suggests that I have 250MB to use for my own web pages. There is nothing to indicate that 250MB is also to include emails. This will become a problem when my website grows close to the 250MB limit. Matt has said that any emails which arrive and take my limit to over 250MB will be queue'd until space is freed up but would be returned to sender after 7 days. This could mean me losing important emails when I go on holiday.

Matt, I don't think its at all professional to effectively change the features of my package retrospectively. Last month I was giving serious consideration to taking up ADSL24's new LLU offering. James was quick to address my concerns with the amount of webspace with his package and he offered 300MB at no extra cost but I decided that the service I had received from Uno/Xilo had been good so I chose to stay. Now I'm regretting that decision, particularly as the free setup offer has now expired.

In reply to a post by PaulG:

Matt, I don't think its at all professional to effectively change the features of my package retrospectively.

We've not changed any features retrospectively as you are claiming. The package has always given 250MB of space, which has always been used for web files and emails.

The only thing that has changed is the wording on the site to give further clarification as to what the space is used for, to avoid any confusion.

As per my last post, the definition of "web space" can be different depending who you ask and this is why the site was changed upon the query you raised.

In regard to the other supplier mentioned, I believe they also use cPanel for their customers and that 300MB "web space" would also include emails, so although you'd have slightly more usage, the problem still exists.

Matt

Edited by uno (Sun 11-Mar-12 21:12:08)

In reply to a post by uno:

We've not changed any features retrospectively as you are claiming. The package has always given 250MB of space, which has always been used for web files and emails.

The only thing that has changed is the wording on the site to give further clarification as to what the space is used for, to avoid any confusion.

The wording suggested that the 250MB was for the user's web pages. If you are now saying that it never meant that then you were miss selling your product which is both unprofessional and illegal.

In reply to a post by PaulG:

In reply to a post by uno:

We've not changed any features retrospectively as you are claiming. The package has always given 250MB of space, which has always been used for web files and emails.

The only thing that has changed is the wording on the site to give further clarification as to what the space is used for, to avoid any confusion.

The wording suggested that the 250MB was for the user's web pages. If you are now saying that it never meant that then you were miss selling your product which is both unprofessional and illegal.

Can't you just buy some more? The shared hosting looks like £2 per month for 1 GB

As explained, the definition of "web space" differs.

It was not missold as to many "web space" refers to space on a server, on the web, that contains files for your site and emails. The point you raised in the ticket that "web space" is specific to only "web site" files, which is not the case.

The wording was changed to avoid any further confusion but it does not change the product offered, that it has 250MB "web space" which is used for files for you web hosting account, including emails.

Matt

Edited by uno (Sun 11-Mar-12 21:27:56)

In reply to a post by uno:

As explained, the definition of "web space" differs.

It was not missold as to many "web space" refers to space on a server, on the web, that contains files for your site and emails. The point you raised in the ticket that "web space" is specific to only "web site" files, which is not the case.

The wording was changed to avoid any further confusion but it does not change the product offered, that it has 250MB "web space" which is used for files for you web hosting account, including emails.

Matt

I would suggest that the offer of 250MB of web space would to 99.9% of people mean 250MB for their web site. If it had said 250MB of server space then that might have been fine but it didn't...... it was pretty specific. I've never heard of email storage being described as "web space".

Webmail

In reply to a post by PaulG:

I would suggest that the offer of 250MB of web space would to 99.9% of people mean 250MB for their web site. I've never heard of email storage being described as "web space".

You're not just storing your emails though. You are storing everything to do with the website hosting on the account, included emails. If it was a mail-only account/service, we would refer to it as "mailbox size".

As I said in the ticket you raised, this is the first time it has been queried and we have acted as quickly as possible to change this so there any further confusion over the term, but the package has not changed.

We're sorry if this has caused any confusion and certainly was not our intention. The term "web space" is a generic one that obviously has different meanings which we've now addressed on the page where it was shown.

Matt

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Webmail

That is using a browser interface to access emails...it does not infer the storage medium.

DrT

In reply to a post by PaulG:

The wording suggested that the 250MB was for the user's web pages. If you are now saying that it never meant that then you were miss selling your product which is both unprofessional and illegal.

Your insinuation implies a deliberate attempt to deceive and defraud. I have no hesitation in saying that I do not believe that to be the case. My hosting is with Xilo and I have found them to be honest and beyond reproach.

Human error these days is pounced upon by all an sundry. There is only ONE way to eliminate human error - nuke the third rock from the Sun.

DrT

I've always thought the same as you Paul, but while reading this thread I began to wonder. After all, emails left on the server take space, and that could be huge. Someone has to pay, and ISPs providing inclusive space must therefore set a limit on email storage.

So I took a look at the robertos hosting and one of my private domain's hosting. Both are sold as 500MB.

RobertoS:-

mail - 34.39
website - 32.33
temp - 18.82
assorted others - 1.55

Total 87.09 (500MB quota limit)

Private:-

mail - 204.52
website - 63.06
temp - 7.61
assorted others - 4.98

Total 280.17 (500MB quote limit).

So it looks to me as though what Matt is saying is industry-normal, as it makes sense and ties in with what a good independent hosting company does. (Using cPanel).

I have to say, web space to me has always meant - the space taken up by files / images / scripts of a website. In recent years, it could possibly mean more (for example, the amount of space taken up by a MySQL database, or databases).

Frankly, I find it a bit weird to have such "web space" linked with "mail space" - if anything, these should be completely separate entities so that they do not conflict with each other. Having space delegated between both services seems, in my opinion... bizarre.

I agree, they should have broken down concisely what they meant by web space, and made it 100% clear what that space is used for, and how. From what you've said, this wasn't done. But seems they have now clarified this on their site.

It seems a bit obvious to me, as being 250MB of space on the web. No matter what protocol you use to access it (http, https, ftp, email, etc) and whatever you use it for (website pages, file backup, email, photos, etc)

Strangely, because of mixt's post, I had a look at AAISP, and they do seem to separate them. You have some "web" space, and a separate 1GB email space.

In reply to a post by PaulG:

I would suggest that the offer of 250MB of web space would to 99.9% of people mean 250MB for their web site. If it had said 250MB of server space then that might have been fine but it didn't...... it was pretty specific. I've never heard of email storage being described as "web space".

I'll second that.
I've had various websites over the years and never associated my "web space" with my email account.
Web space to me is where you store web pages and any associated files. Email SHOULD be a completely separate entity.
If they are combined it should be advertised as SERVER space.
Just my opinion.

In reply to a post by BillyUK:

I'll second that.
I've had various websites over the years and never associated my "web space" with my email account.
Web space to me is where you store web pages and any associated files. Email SHOULD be a completely separate entity.
If they are combined it should be advertised as SERVER space.
Just my opinion.

Who do you use to host your website and email? Do you have cPanel and have you ever checked what is using what? Or have you just assumed they were separate, as I mistakenly did.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 12-Mar-12 12:37:05)

I'll just add to this a hypothetical situation which demonstrates why I find combining "web space" and "mail space" bizarre.

Let's say you have a site that allows users to upload files (photos, for sake of argument). Users are uploading fine, and your site is using well below the "web space" limits defined for it, until - bang, someone spams your mail box, or sends you a 10Mb file, which just happens to fit into the remaining 10Mb of space you had left for the website, and were expecting to use for storing image uploads. Until you fetch or delete this email, it then blocks users from uploading any further images.

So we have a situation where the website breaks because of circumstances outwith your control, and because the space for these two services was not independently defined.

I hope this now demonstrates to people why I find the linking of the two... bizarre.

I use TSOhost these days but just for email, haven't bothered setting up a new website but I have set up a wee one with Wix.com but that was just for fun.
I just assumed they were separate and have done for years
My websites were always quite basic and never near the space I received so it was probably never going to show up as reaching it's limit. But like you I didn't see any correlation between Web space and email space and from what I remember when using FTP and the likes I had the space I thought I should have for my website and there was never any sign of email space. So I think our assumptions WERE correct in the past but looks like SOME ISP's changed the goal posts without telling

In reply to a post by mixt:

I hope this now demonstrates to people why I find the linking of the two... bizarre.

Bizarre... but very much standard within the control panels offered on the market. The only one that I can think of that did offer separate email "allowance" was H-Sphere, which was acquired by Parallels many years ago and neglected. Even if they are split, there are some hosts that count the combined usage of website files and emails for your single allowance of "web space".

The mass market of hosting means that most hosts use an industry standard control panel like cPanel or Plesk, where the norm is one allowance for both, to which it can be referred to as "web space", which was the term we used.

Matt

I wouldn't have included emails in web space. My definition is space in which to host a web site. Email is something that is totally different.

Not if using cPanel.

10 years or so ago and before cpanel etc became common place webspace was probably separate from email storage.
Although not running a website I had always thought of them as separate allowances , however I am happy to be corrected and the single allowance does seem perfectly logical once it is explained.

It is good to hear that Uno are making efforts to clarify the situation, it is not easy writing definitions etc which are clear to newbies and provide the full information for the "oldies".

In reply to a post by Sandgrounder:

It seems a bit obvious to me, as being 250MB of space on the web. No matter what protocol you use to access it (http, https, ftp, email, etc) and whatever you use it for (website pages, file backup, email, photos, etc)

By definition only HTTP protocols pertain to the " web".

E-mail, Usenet, Bittorrent, $whatever: they all operate over the Internet. Certainly there are some web interfaces to some of those services, but the web itself is an equal peer of e-mail on the Internet.

If you turned-off all the World's web servers today, e-mail would still happily flow along.

So we are really talking about Internet Space!

In reply to a post by Northwind:

In reply to a post by Sandgrounder:

It seems a bit obvious to me, as being 250MB of space on the web. No matter what protocol you use to access it (http, https, ftp, email, etc) and whatever you use it for (website pages, file backup, email, photos, etc)

By definition only HTTP protocols pertain to the " web".

E-mail, Usenet, Bittorrent, $whatever: they all operate over the Internet. Certainly there are some web interfaces to some of those services, but the web itself is an equal peer of e-mail on the Internet.

If you turned-off all the World's web servers today, e-mail would still happily flow along.

This is the crux of the matter although I'm sure this wasn't a deliberate miss selling of services from Uno it was a poor definition although as someone has said writing definitions that are both accurate and non confusing for the masses can be difficult at times..

cPanel and others like it where the multiple protocols are combined is both useful and a hindrance at the same time. I do know someone that had the same issue in the past with another host but I�m struggling to remember the name of the host and therefore can�t look up their definition.