Can't Switch with Sky LLU Service

I has a suspicion for a while that moving away from Sky was an issue. So with the upcoming price increase in mind I did a bit of shopping. Several providers said they couldn't port or migrate my existing service from Sky. Two were Uno and Vodafone. Guy at Uno explained that Uno's systems weren't set up to move services from LLU. unbundled, exchanges such as my local exchange. I'm not on VOIP phone. I use a standard copper landline connection
This is unacceptable from Sky and my only option is to just start a new service and lose my current number. Although Vodafone claimed they could reinstate my current number within a day. I like Sky as I get good service but the price increase and now this debacle has seriously turned me off them. Waiting for them to explain why they are effectively blocking me moving, to some suppliers and what solutions they can offer to resolve that

Edited by Briangazza (Thu 24-Feb-22 16:27:09)

Sky provide a perfectly valid service option via LLU. Some providers though are not setup to transition people in from an LLU service. From Sky's perspective they are just selling an option that is endorsed by Ofcom. The other providers find LLU migrations more complex and some of the smaller providers won't invest in the processes and tech needed to support LLU migrations as it would mean increasing their costs.

So, Sky haven't really done anything wrong here and it isn't their fault that some providers are unable (or unwilling) to deal with migrations from an Ofcom endorsed LLU service (in fact Ofcom encouraged suppliers to use LLU in order to provide more market competition). The bigger providers are much more likely to take LLU migrations but for smaller providers it may just not be financially viable.

Thats pretty much how I read it Ian.

Although I disagree with it not being Sky's fault. They may well provide a service"endorsed by Ofcom" but they should also make it easy to migrate away from them as per Ofcom regs. They should provide a warning that moving away from Sky may be restricted to a few suppliers and provide assistance to those that find it difficult. Which is why I will probably move just to get out of this trap. Talk Talk are the same apparently in some exchanges
Vodafone aren't "small" but they clearly can't be bothered either.

In reply to a post by Briangazza:

Although I disagree with it not being Sky's fault. They may well provide a service"endorsed by Ofcom" but they should also make it easy to migrate away from them as per Ofcom regs.

Sky is not responsible for the incompetency of other suppliers.

It doesn’t unfortunately help you now, but there is a new Ofcom migration process coming into play in the first quarter of 2023 that would cover your particular scenario (and also others that involve migrations from hitherto disparate / separate networks). Just a shame it’s not ready yet.

Thats harsh. Almost a BT attitude of indifference and arrogance by Sky if true

Sky shouldn't make the difficulty and therefore the cost prohibitive for other suppliers. Talking to an old colleague who's at Vodafone its clear that no one else is continuing along the LLU route. VF considered it but the cons out weighed the pros. Maybe 10 years ago it would have been different

Thanks Pheasant. That would be helpful. Appreciate that.

Look, peeps, I'm not attacking Sky as such but they could and should do more to help. I know some on VOIP have been moved to old fashioned Sky Essentials to enable them to move away. Not sure if there is any answer for my situation and I guess I could just move to Plusnet for 18 months if Sky play hard ball on the price increase at the end of March and don't hold my current deal.

In reply to a post by Briangazza:

Sky shouldn't make the difficulty and therefore the cost prohibitive for other suppliers.

They don't. You said: "Guy at Uno explained that Uno's systems weren't set up to move services from LLU."

And like I said, Sky is not responsible for their incompetency.

In reply to a post by Briangazza:

Look, peeps, I'm not attacking Sky as such

But that's exactly what you are doing. You are blaming them for another company's incompetence.

Sky are doing nothing wrong. They are providing a service according to the rules and regulations that Ofcom have laid down. It's not up to Sky to say that your options to migrate away might be restricted because it's not their responsibility. They have nothing to explain.

The company(s) to be having a go at are those Communication Providers which refuse to migrate customers in from LLU providers. Those are the companies who are letting you down. Sky absolutely have a system to allow customers who wish to migrate away. It's not their fault if other CPs don't wish to engage with them.

Edited by Andrue (Thu 24-Feb-22 18:37:29)

In reply to a post by Briangazza:

Although I disagree with it not being Sky's fault.

It isn't Sky's fault. All they have done is install their own equipment in the exchange rather than use BT Wholesales kit.
Talktalk and Vodafone do the same thing.

There's nothing Sky can do as they aren't doing anything wrong. It's the provider who won't cater for a process that has existed for many many years who is to blame.

Thats a ridiculous argument.

They absolutely do have a duty to point out that all providers are not compatible with their systems. The don't because people would never sign up to them. Not exactly open and honest

I agree that providers could have moved quicker on something they have known about but Ofcom taking action next years says it all. They all need their heads banging together.

Anyway I'll be off as soon as the price increase comes in. All the Sky employees and fan boys can post here and defend them in a vacuum

In reply to a post by Briangazza:

All the Sky employees and fan boys can post here and defend them in a vacuum

I've never been with Sky, am unlikely to go to them (never say never), but have been LLU with TalkTalk in past.
Sky are doing nothing wrong, they are using a 'system' set up by OfCom to allow more competitive services.

ISPs all have many duties laid down by Ofcom. They don't have the duty to track the migration policy of every other ISP. Your criticism of Sky would equally apply to TalkTalk and Vodafone who also use LLU (as do many who use talktalk wholesale products).

Ofcoms change next year is to cover the moves between completely separate networks such as Virgin media, CityFibre etc. As I understand it the only obligation would apply to the losing ISP, they aren't going to force every ISP to accept orders to migrate from any other ISP. Its quite possible a smaller ISP will still chose not to accept less straightforward migrations.

Do you know that you can't convert a VM line to an OpenReach line and vice versa?

indeed 66.
Until next year when the new Ofcom requirements kick in. I'll avoid digital phones until then

Not a fan boy, was with Sky many years ago but not since. LLU was encouraged by Ofcom as a way to increase competition but only a few of the larger suppliers could afford to implement it. LLU has been around for over 15 years (wikipedia shows there were already 210,000 unbundled connections in 2006 - not sure when it started).

And as has been mentioned Virgin are not required to state that you can't migrate a Virgin connection to another provider - this is essentially the same although at a different level in the network and a number of providers are able to take migrations from LLU, it is just that the smaller providers have not made the investment to do it despite the number of years it has been around.

I understand your frustration but Sky are using a technology that has been around for a very long time and was encouraged by Ofcom and touted as one of the key drivers of Ofcom's strategy to get market diversity.

How is Ofcom going to allow a docsis system to be converted to a fibre setup?

Converting a VM line to an OR line isn’t possible, what is possible is for a customer on a BT type line to port their phone number to VM, and reciprocally, a VM customer ( with a VM allocated number ) is able to port their number to a BT type line supplier …the first number ports were fundamentally that, in the main BT customers , 25-30 years ago being ‘won’ by the cable industry and transferring their BT number to the cable operator, and because it was possible , that in time , the BT monopoly would simply replaced by a cable monopoly, the cable industry had to export their numbers to BT , should BT ‘win’ a cable customer with a cable company allocated number.
The entire number portability offer is reciprocal, if a Telco wants to be able to port other Telco numbers in, they also have to have the ability to port their own numbers out….

Edited by Iniltous (Sat 26-Feb-22 13:11:09)

I think we all know that numbers can be ported but that is not what is being discussed.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Do you know that you can't convert a VM line to an OpenReach line and vice versa?

If you already knew, this post is little odd and equally off topic

Other than phone number portability, which has been discussed the new rules are essentially about coordinating

To move from VM to say BT just now means
- signing up to BT
- BT install the line or reactivate existing line
- Customer phones virgin to cancel the virgin service

The new system is
- Customer signs up to BT
- BT notify virgin, who notify the customer
- BT install the line or reactivate
- BT indicate to Virgin to cancel old line

In theory this is pretty simple, but the new system will need to take into account any delays in installing the new service

To point out to the OP that not all systems are compatible and the company has no responsibility to inform the customer of that fact.

One reason I will not use sky. as always a pain to get away from

In reply to a post by flippery:

One reason I will not use sky. as always a pain to get away from

It's actually really easy, I've done it more than once when hopping around for the best deal.