In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Interesting comments all read with an open mind, thanks all .

With talking to both executive offices about different ideas it was me who suggested what about using the WBC FTTP 0.5 /0.5 Mbps product feed for a separate digital phone line with BBU.
After all that what it was created for (well plus the internet of things as well) so I am trying BT to see if it's going put in at there cost (that is what I meant in my earlier post that said cost me £0 that was for the install not the line and call costs ) , But yes I will be paying them for a standard BT line cost and any calls made on it and we should still get incoming calls on it.
I think it's gone to a higher level at BT at the moment to see if they will put it in..
So it's not gospel that it will get put in yet.

The comments about a Either a separate Fibre feed and 1 port ONT or 4 port ONT came from BT, Openreach comments about that it is the isp choose what produce they buy from Openreach, BT being a isp. so BT may not provide 4 port ONT but put in a separate FTTP feed.

Re PCJM40 ...I'm lead to believe one of my elderly neighbours had their telephone only service migrated over to use FTTP 'ONT exists with no active service'

I think you are seeing the service I am describing above.
Look up there address please and note what it says about WBC FTTP ..............

'Asterisk sytem' is something to do in the evenings than watching TV, a Challenge that keeps my remaining three brain cells active

Talk me through why a plain VOIP service (or multiple if you want to use different providers say for inbound and outbound) over your *existing* FTTP connection is simply not good enough.

Elsewhere in this thread you mention

Will cost me £0, as under Ofcom rules it should not cost me any more to get BT Digital voice.

… it seems to me that the Ofcom rule is saying ‘it should be free to get BTDV ‘
on the FTTP to your property not it should be free to request and entirely separate fibre feed to a separate ONT , just to provide BTDV.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Talk me through why a plain VOIP service (or multiple if you want to use different providers say for inbound and outbound) over your *existing* FTTP connection is simply not good enough.

The OP's blog looks like it has stopped!

Been talking a lot to both 'Executive' offices.

Basically what I suggest is correct and I can have an independent stand alone BT Digital Voice point put in for

FREE

They said.

' If you are a BT landline-only customer, you should not pay more for the Digital Voice service than you currently pay for your landline.'


Facts
1...BT told me they cannot supply a 4 port ONT ! as they do not buy them from Openreach.


They can only offer another separate fibre line and ONT.

So if they do this all over the country then that is going to use up any spare Fibre network capacity, odd very odd.


2... BT also said because of our age, the fact we get power cuts (like the one last week during the storm) and with no mobile signal .

They said.
If you are classed as vulnerable or in an area prone to power cuts you would be sent a battery back up as mentioned previously but this would only support the hub only. ???

So I pointed out that to conform with the Ofcom rules the ONT has to have a BBU to make the system work .

I asked Openreach who said

Unfortunately we in Openreach do not supply a BBU for our ONT’s.

I have asked BT to point this anomaly to there higher management.

.............................................................................................................................................................

Some of you cannot understand to make this to work, it with have a FTTP 0.5 /0.5 Mbps feed to the ONT, that's what the VOIP will need to transport the Digital voice over.
That will be Free I do not have to pay extra for it will be a part of the BT line rental fee.
It is what makes it work.
Think of that FTTP as the Battery voltage in the PTSN system.

.........................................................................................................................................................
By the time I am ready for this I will had got rid of my ADSL 2 isp over the copper pair this will revert back our phone onto the BT line.

I will still have my other FTTP supply.

Still looking into FRE PBX system (when I have some spare time) which is installed on a spare machine.

The fact that we will have a separate BT digital phone system does not mean we will be using it to make calls from at there prices.
Depends how Free PBX goes, we could get another number from AA and have VoIP on my other FTTP.
Early days yet.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Facts
1...BT told me they cannot supply a 4 port ONT ! as they do not buy them from Openreach.


They can only offer another separate fibre line and ONT.

So if they do this all over the country then that is going to use up any spare Fibre network capacity, odd very odd.

So I pointed out that to conform with the Ofcom rules the ONT has to have a BBU to make the system work .

I asked Openreach who said

Unfortunately we in Openreach do not supply a BBU for our ONT’s.

I have asked BT to point this anomaly to there higher management.

On the first point not really. How many people do you reckon have a BT copper landline and full fibre from someone else? Nearly zero.

BT do not and have never used the 4 port ONTs. Their provisioning system can't use any ports other than the first one on the ONT. The one I have was provided by Openreach due to a provisioning error leaving no spare ports on the PON and a requirement for two separate services for working from home during pandemic. BT services were only ever on the first port.

The regulation on a BBU is from Ofcom and both Openreach and BT are quite aware: they are humouring you with your reporting of an anomaly. Openreach stopped providing BBUs years ago, my own estate the early properties have a BBU, the later ones after the regulation change do not.

Your being able to get the second FTTP circuit without paying for install is an edge case and entirely legit however with the pricing you'll have paid the install costs back in pretty quick time so not like BT will mind 😊

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

On the first point not really. How many people do you reckon have a BT copper landline and full fibre from someone else? Nearly zero.

BT do not and have never used the 4 port ONTs. Their provisioning system can't use any ports other than the first one on the ONT.

So, given OP's contact was with Openreach, would I be mistaken to read between the lines that Openreach originally decided to make multiport ONT's available as the means to provide for non-BT ISP's but retain the telephony business within the BT-OR group. But BT see DV adapters on the router rather than on an ONT port as the means to take advantage of customer inertia to become the only ISP able to offer BT-OR telephony [and in the process drive away telephony customers who are intent on having their own choice of ISP, even at the expense of losing BT-OR telephony.

The early generation of Openreach ONT with a phone port was for the short lived Openreach service , FVA , Fibre Voice Access , and like all Openreach products was available to purchase from any CP/ISP who wanted to consume them , but this involved OR in the telephony business, something they don’t want to be in , and although admittedly would have made telephony only provision easier for providers that want to be in that game , there are none , BT are obliged to offer it (otherwise I doubt they would ) no one else does offer standalone telephony , OR don’t want to be in that space , and AFAIK only BT ever took that FVA product, , I doubt there will be many if any customers still on FVA .

Proprietary versions of VoIP , supplied by the ISP via their own equipment, a port on the router is the preferred route for ISP that want to also supply telephony, this in no way limits traditional VoIP supply if that’s preferred by the customer, it’s only ‘awkward’ consumers such as the OP that seem to want to push at the limit of what’s available even if its unnecessarily expensive , for both themselves and the CP, there will be genuine telephone only customers that will need the products the OP wants , it just the OP doesn’t need them and consequently will pay handsomely for the privilege.

As an aside, In BT’s case a DV adapter is just an optional accessory, converting a corded phone into a DECT ‘cordless’ phone capable of connecting to the DECT basestation within the BT SH2 router , they are not necessary as far as BTDV is concerned, (I have BTDV but don’t want or need a DV adapter, my phone connects directly to the SH2) , uniquely BT feel obliged to supply these adapters as a sop to those that complain that their phone isn’t anywhere near the router , whereas Sky and Vodafone, and probably others , provide no such thing for their customers, they are a nice to have rather than a must have .
I dare say the OP will be requesting their ‘free’ BT DV adapters as well as the ‘free’ conversion to FTTP from their soon to be broadband free copper pair service , their ‘free’ BBU for the router , and they hope a free BBU for the ONT (good luck with that ) , but at a minimum of £360 , ‘free’ isn’t really how I would describe the OP’s intentions, ludicrous is a more ‘apt’ description .

Edited by Iniltous (Sat 12-Jul-25 09:02:36)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

... this involved OR in the telephony business, something they don’t want to be in ...

I can understand OR not wanting to do old school telephony with all that strowger and copper. But per minute telephony on top of infrastructure you already collect on monthly seems like a no brainer. But it is going to the voip operators.

Domestic telephony is pretty much a niche product, and in permanent decline, although I maintain a DV phone service, I’ve never made an outgoing call using it , my grown up children have broadband but no telephone service , and although it’s a sweeping generalisation I’d bet the younger generation just won’t bother with landlines , my generation the international gesture for ‘ I’ll give you a call’ is the little finger and thumb of one hand extended and held near the ear , a child will have no understanding of that , the equivalent is looking at the palm of their hand .
Like any niche product, it’s not likely that any mainstream company will be sufficiently interested and leave it to the niche providers, and as Openreach are not customer facing , they would need a product and hope others will offer it , I dare say the poor take up of FVA showed the industry just didn’t want it .

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Basically what I suggest is correct and I can have an independent stand alone BT Digital Voice point put in for

FREE

A standalone BT Digital Voice service is NOT FREE it costs you around £30 a month, included in that £30 is a very very slow FTTP service.

Likewise if you took BT Broadband and BT Digital Voice you wouldn't be paying the £30 a month for the BT Digital voice bit so the £30 is really for the FTTP to carry the BT Digital voice to your property (AKA line rental).

To be totally frank if you go a head with this it will probably be the most stupid broadband decision I have ever come across.