ISP for new house on Hereford exchange

Looking at options for new house at HR2 7GA on the Hereford exchange.

Chess Telecom business option 2 at £24.85 a month inc VAT. Line rental, 500mins landline calls and unlimited broadband. I have to pay the connection fee, presumably £130. Quoted 14:1 contention ratio.

Sky broadband unlimited, line rental and talk unlimited £21.25 a month for first year, £10 connection. Supposedly on IP technology rather than ATM and thus no contention ratio.

Suspect Chess will be much better, especially in the evenings, but puzzled by the contention ratio being mentioned for their service when it is supposedly not applicable for Sky? Does the Sky service depend on how many people are using the Hereford exchange at any one time, or only how many Sky customers are using that exchange perhaps? Is it a busy exchange do you know?

Suggestions please folks?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Suspect Chess will be much better, especially in the evenings,

I doubt it. Probably just a reseller for TalkTalk or similar.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Looking at options for new house at HR2 7GA on the Hereford exchange.

Chess Telecom business option 2 at £24.85 a month inc VAT. Line rental, 500mins landline calls and unlimited broadband. I have to pay the connection fee, presumably £130. Quoted 14:1 contention ratio.

Sounds a bit unlikely.

Strip out around £10pm for line rental and that leaves £15. Say £13 for the broadband. So how they manage that I have no idea. Sky LLU and TalkTalk LLU can do those sort of figures, but TalkTalk Business Wholesale doesn't, so maybe it is Easynet Wholesale.

Whatever, 14:1 contention ratio is balderdash.

Sky broadband unlimited, line rental and talk unlimited £21.25 a month for first year, £10 connection. Supposedly on IP technology rather than ATM and thus no contention ratio.

Something is confusing you there. All ADSLx broadband is basically TCP/IP based between the exchange and the internet, but between you and the exchange the TCP/IP packets are wrapped in ATM ones.

Suspect Chess will be much better, especially in the evenings, but puzzled by the contention ratio being mentioned for their service when it is supposedly not applicable for Sky? Does the Sky service depend on how many people are using the Hereford exchange at any one time, or only how many Sky customers are using that exchange perhaps? Is it a busy exchange do you know?

All ISPs budget their capacity on the basis of x kbits/s per customer, where x is often below 100. That is why it can be done cheaply and why congestion occurs at busy times. That is also why I say 14:1 contention ration is bunkum - maybe that means within the ISPs internal routing, but it isn't applicable outside that.

I think you need to try to find out whose underlying service Chess are selling.

Sky Unlimited LLU has high approval on this site but I believe traffic management. True unlimited though. As you were looking at Chess Business Broadband, is this for business use? I seem to remember that isn't allowed on Sky, but I could be wrong. Or you may just have picked out a Chess Business package as suiting your needs.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Suspect Chess will be much better, especially in the evenings,

I doubt it. Probably just a reseller for TalkTalk or similar.

Did it really take me that long to type my reply to the OP? You hadn't posted when I started .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Something is confusing you there. All ADSLx broadband is basically TCP/IP based between the exchange and the internet, but between you and the exchange the TCP/IP packets are wrapped in ATM ones.

I think he's referrring to the MER network that Sky have introduced

edit; not a great link, that

Edited by deleted (Tue 15-Mar-11 15:56:33)

Discovered that Chess Telecom is a reseller of Talk Talk as you suspected. They say that they provide both talk talk retail and talk talk wholesale depending on customer requirements. Which is their phone line + broadband + 500 free minutes "saver option 2" likely to be? Retail or wholesale? Is it good? I do know that they have a proper UK helpdesk which is a good start. Might I be better off with BT [then I don't get charged to cancel my current account with them or get charged to connect at the new place] or Sky?

You can have Sky LLU broadband, as long as it isn't full up on that exchange, plus Sky Calls, with line rental to BT. So that would solve the BT contract problem. Just don't sign up for Sky line rental.

Just watch out for it being full up though, as I said. They would then possibly put you on the non-LLU Sky Connect.

That is dross.

TalkTalk Retail heavily throttled on P2P, so resold would be as well. Resold TalkTalk Business Wholesale seems to be the same with the two resellers I know of, and with a 100GB FUP, unless you take an add-on package for about £29. So what Chess do needs examining.

BT Broadband is losing its 300GB FUP next month, but will still be traffic managed at busy times.

What do you guys thing then? Sounds like you are saying talk talk via Chess isn't the way to go and that maybe sky not either. BT?

Who said Sky LLU wasn't a good idea?

A BT Wholesale broadband connection, such as BT Total or one of the smaller, better, niche players is stuck with the painful IP Profile system and aggressive noise management. Did you say who you are with at the old address?

On LLU systems, if you get a bad sync for any reason, which can happen on the best of lines, as soon as you do a manual reconnection and get high connection speed back, you get the download speed that goes with that. On BT Wholesale ones you have up to five days to wait while the system thinks about raising the (lowered) IP Profile again. And your noise margin may have been raised, losing you connection speed, and that can be a big problem.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Something is confusing you there. All ADSLx broadband is basically TCP/IP based between the exchange and the internet, but between you and the exchange the TCP/IP packets are wrapped in ATM ones.

I think he's referrring to the MER network that Sky have introduced

Could be. I didn't know they had done that. It seems to have been last year, though with some continuing problems?

Still TCP/IP and ATM though. Just something to do with the backhaul side of it? "MER, I gather is Mac Encapsulated Routing, or Ethernet over ATM - same as used on BEthere's network, and doesn't use PPP, so no CHAP authentication."

I wouldn't be that bothered about the 14:1 contention ratio

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Looking at options for new house at HR2 7GA on the Hereford exchange.
Suggestions please folks?

Hi, is your new house a new build does it have a telephone line installed?

Orange has LLU your exchange HR2 7GA

In reply to a post by E7er:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Looking at options for new house at HR2 7GA on the Hereford exchange.
Suggestions please folks?

Hi, is your new house a new build does it have a telephone line installed?

Orange has LLU your exchange HR2 7GA

And

# Cable & Wireless LLU
# TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
# Sky Broadband / Easynet LLU

I recommend Sky Broadband Unlimited

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You can have Sky LLU broadband, as long as it isn't full up on that exchange.
Just watch out for it being full up though, as I said. They would then possibly put you on the non-LLU Sky Connect.

How would I tell if the Sky LLU is full already on Hereford exchange please?

Apply for it and if you're offered Sky Connect, then it is full and you refuse it.

Thanks for all the help everyone! Much appreciated indeed!

Ordered sky broadband, calls and line rental after a long time on the live chat and phone to various sky people until I found someone who said that there were 5 slots remaining on the Sky LLU at my exchange. No promises that they might get filled up with orders in progress before mine gets done though so fingers crossed..

Good luck . Let us know how it goes.

In reply to a post by E7er:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Looking at options for new house at HR2 7GA on the Hereford exchange.
Suggestions please folks?

Hi, is your new house a new build does it have a telephone line installed?

Orange has LLU your exchange HR2 7GA

If that is so and Orange have unbundled the Exchange, then why is it that the 4 people I know that is using Orange is still using the Bt Ipstream?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You can have Sky LLU broadband, as long as it isn't full up on that exchange.
Just watch out for it being full up though, as I said. They would then possibly put you on the non-LLU Sky Connect.

How would I tell if the Sky LLU is full already on Hereford exchange please?

It is not full, or it was not a couple of weeks ago as a friend of mine have applied for it and got it.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Thanks for all the help everyone! Much appreciated indeed!

Ordered sky broadband, calls and line rental after a long time on the live chat and phone to various sky people until I found someone who said that there were 5 slots remaining on the Sky LLU at my exchange. No promises that they might get filled up with orders in progress before mine gets done though so fingers crossed..

Um, sometimes they say stuff like that to get you to hurry up and make up your mind. Talk Talk tried that trick with me, you have to make up your mind now because we only got a few slots left. If that is so then why are you bothering me to use your service since you have enough people using it.

I am on the Hereford Exchange and using Cable and Wireless via ADSL24, great service, even if I am a fair distance from the exchange,

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by E7er:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Orange has LLU your exchange HR2 7GA

If that is so and Orange have unbundled the Exchange, then why is it that the 4 people I know that is using Orange is still using the Bt Ipstream?

Sounds like this one as well. Wonder what's going on?

When a salesperson says 2-4 weeks then one tends to suspect it might well take longer than a month.. Could be a while before feedback arrives!

Openreach engineer appeared yesterday and there was a through path to the exchange so it only took him an hour including work in the cabinet.
Perhaps worth mentioning it appears sky want you to use their provided router and the adsl username and password are locked within it. Not terribly well locked for those who do wish to use their own router though..

Present question is on downstream connection speed, was ~300k following connection and is 252kbps today. Not terribly impressed. 605kbps upstream which seems fine though.

Suggestions?

Post your router stats. See http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php

In reply to a post by john2007:

Post your router stats. See http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php

I should have thought to find these and post them without prompting really, sorry.

Connection Speed
252 kbps down
605 kbps up

Line Attenuation
72.5 dB down
46.7 dB up

Noise Margin
9.3 dB down
7.3 dB up

Based on those attenuation figures, it is about right.

If the noise margin over a 24 hour period (particularly when dark) varies by only 1 or 2dB, then you can request a lower target noise margin from Sky and that will give another 100-200Kbps possibly.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Based on those attenuation figures, it is about right.

If the noise margin over a 24 hour period (particularly when dark) varies by only 1 or 2dB, then you can request a lower target noise margin from Sky and that will give another 100-200Kbps possibly.

I'd expected a downstream connection of 3000-5000 rather than 250kbps! My neighbour has 5M according to the Openreach engineer and Sky suggested I'd get 3.5M.
Is it something external or perhaps my house telephone wiring? [Openreach engineer not impressed by the builders electrician]

Did you get the stats from the test socket (within modern BT master sockets)?

In reply to a post by john2007:

Did you get the stats from the test socket (within modern BT master sockets)?

That was from a standard socket. The Openreach engineer said with modern wiring that isn't star layout it doesn't matter. I shall go and retest with the master test socket behind the faceplate.

Just come back from helping another neighbour, also on sky bb, to get going. He was connected this morning and his upstream connection is only 160k!

From test socket:
Connection Speed
1127 kbps down
652 kbps up

Line Attenuation
70.5 dB down
45.6 dB up

Noise Margin
7.2 dB down
7.5 dB up

Considerable improvement! Now only a third to a quarter what it should be.
Next thing to check please?

Well house wiring is not helping - read up on disconnecting the ring wire, orange wire on pin 3

The attenuation dropping a little - which suggests perhaps very poor quality (bell wire) has been used rather than proper phone cabling.

the 2 to 3 meg you are aiming for is impossible at 70dB attenuation pretty much. I would be chasing for a set of stats from the property that claims the much higher speeds.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by john2007:

Did you get the stats from the test socket (within modern BT master sockets)?

That was from a standard socket. The Openreach engineer said with modern wiring that isn't star layout it doesn't matter. I shall go and retest with the master test socket behind the faceplate.

Just come back from helping another neighbour, also on sky bb, to get going. He was connected this morning and his upstream connection is only 160k!

The ring wire always matters unless you have a filtered faceplate, which I assume you haven't. (Two sockets in it, one phone and one ADSL).

What colours are the wires connected to each numbered terminal on the back of the faceplate?

We have a blue a blue and white and an orange. Orange in terminal 3 being the bellwire I presume.
Faceplate presently off and extensions all inactive. Router plugged into filter into test socket so doesn't this avoid any local naff wiring and bell wire problems, leaving the slow speed down to the copper outside?

Yes.

The wiring colours suggest decent cabling (CAT5) has been used, and you can safely remove the orange from T3. be careful not to disturb the others.

Make sure no exposed bit of the orange is going to touch anything important when you replace the faceplate, but it is best not to cut it off.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The wiring colours suggest decent cabling (CAT5) has been used, and you can safely remove the orange from T3. be careful not to disturb the others.

Make sure no exposed bit of the orange is going to touch anything important when you replace the faceplate, but it is best not to cut it off.

When the orange wire is disconnected and the filter plugged into the front socket rather than the test socket the stats are as follows:

Connection Speed
1009 kbps down
645 kbps up

Line Attenuation
70.5 dB down
45.7 dB up

Noise Margin
7.6 dB down
7.4 dB up

That is more than a10% loss of performance down to the house wiring on what is already a poor connection for our distance to exchange.

Suggestions for what to try next please?

Is the house wiring proper twisted pair cable? If not then changing that to CW1308 spec cable or CAT5 would help.

Another option is an ADSL faceplate to filter the ADSL from the voice side at the entry point into the property.

I can see that improving the house cabling would reduce the amount of downstream connection speed loss compared with when plugged into the test socket but is there anything I can do about the 1.1Mb speed compared to the 3-5Mb I was predicted when the house wiring is bypassed please? Should I call sky and ask them to get an engineer to check?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

That is more than a10% loss of performance down to the house wiring on what is already a poor connection for our distance to exchange.

No, it's a 300% gain from the front socket by just removing the bell wire.

What are the stats now from the test socket? Best to do any re-connections in daytime.

IMHO, you'll never get 3-5 Meg from that attn.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 01-Apr-11 14:28:16)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

IMHO, you'll never get 3-5 Meg from that attn.

1.0Mb from front socket
1.1Mb from test socket
2 doors up has 5Mb according to Openreach engineer
3 doors down has 3.5Mb accoring to house owner

Can this be fixed?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Can this be fixed?

You'll never know unless you can get your neighbours' stats, esp their attenuations. It's possible they're on a diff exchange, or even cable run.

Anything can be fixed, the surreal could involve moving the house a mile down the road.

Seriously you need to get the actual stats from these other properties and confirm they are on the same exchange as you.

The estimate was wrong for your property - which may mean people are under the illusion they have better speeds than they really do, i.e. have never investigated further, or there is something unique about your line. It is correct to say that a telephone DOES work when plugged into the test socket?

If the 70dB attenuation is correct for your line then nothing more to be done really.

If the 70dB is down to a fault/odd wiring situation then something might be possible, but since broadband is a best efforts service, Sky and Openreach can offer you, take this speed or let you exit contract with no penalty.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I can see that improving the house cabling would reduce the amount of downstream connection speed loss compared with when plugged into the test socket but is there anything I can do about the 1.1Mb speed compared to the 3-5Mb I was predicted when the house wiring is bypassed please? Should I call sky and ask them to get an engineer to check?

When you use the test socket, are you plugging the router into the filter using just the short ADSL cable, and the filter straight into the socket, or are you using a plug-in extension lead as well to reach the socket?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I can see that improving the house cabling would reduce the amount of downstream connection speed loss compared with when plugged into the test socket but is there anything I can do about the 1.1Mb speed compared to the 3-5Mb I was predicted when the house wiring is bypassed please? Should I call sky and ask them to get an engineer to check?

When you use the test socket, are you plugging the router into the filter using just the short ADSL cable, and the filter straight into the socket, or are you using a plug-in extension lead as well to reach the socket?

No extensions!
I shall knock some doors and try to get some of my neighbours actual stats.
Will report back! Thanks for all the help so far!

If you don't know their phone numbers, get those as well. We need all the straws in case they need clutching at.

A question for the original poster...

What speed did an old dialup PSTN modem connect at? Or put another way, was there ever a DACs on the line?

If the other properties are in the 20dB attenuation region, then your performance may because of the presence of a DACs or partial presence. While a DAC's should totally break xDSL, if I recall we have seen a few get some signal just about.

Another option is that if your line had intermittent audible noise on it with regards to voice telephone calls, then an RF2 filter may have been fitted by BT. For compatability with ADSL this needs to be changed to an RF3 model.

Did the OP ever say he had a dialup PSTN modem?

It's a new build. Is it likely to have a DAC?

Probably not, but am wondering whether half a DAC was left in the network somewhere, new build usually only means new cable for the last few metres.

Not spoken to neighbours yet but moved the router to another socket to see how disconnecting the bellwire helped back where the router started:

1.0Mb from front socket
1.1Mb from test socket
0.39Mb from original socket

Not terribly impressed with house wiring or street wiring!

Original socket shows it's the house wiring. No evidence on the street wiring!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Original socket shows it's the house wiring. No evidence on the street wiring!

Supposed to be getting 3.4-5.0Mb. Thus street wiring responsible for it only being 1.1Mb.

I had more than twice this speed at my last place and that was double the distance from the exchange out in the wilds of Wales!

Supposed to! Who said?

NM the road distance from the exchange, what was the line length in Wales compared with now? Do you know? What was the attn. in Wales? That's the limiting factor!

Unless you can get your attn. down to about 55 dB, you'll never get the speeds you dream of.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Original socket shows it's the house wiring. No evidence on the street wiring!

Supposed to be getting 3.4-5.0Mb. Thus street wiring responsible for it only being 1.1Mb.

I had more than twice this speed at my last place and that was double the distance from the exchange out in the wilds of Wales!

It's a sad fact that many people with a decent connection for some reason or other need a second, (often so they have a backup if their ISP goes down), so get another line installed, and find the new one is several Mbps slower than the first.

The reason is that the second connection between the cabinet they are on and the exchange can be down a different main cable taking a totally different route, quite literally possibly all round the houses. So although neighbours' speeds are normally a guide, that is no guarantee.

But most BT cables come in pairs of lines, as mine do and give identical stats.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It's a sad fact that many people with a decent connection for some reason or other need a second, (often so they have a backup if their ISP goes down), so get another line installed, and find the new one is several Mbps slower than the first.

The reason is that the second connection between the cabinet they are on and the exchange can be down a different main cable taking a totally different route, quite literally possibly all round the houses. So although neighbours' speeds are normally a guide, that is no guarantee.

Now that is a very informative answer, thank you!

Is there a chance that the isp might ask Openreach to swap my connection over to a better cable route between cab and exchange?
As my broadband dongle was almost half the cost to use compared to phone and adsl bb and ran at more than twice the speed I'm considering cancelling the latter if it can't be improved. The terrible house wiring isn't exactly helping the adsl look attractive either..

Forgot to ask; It has been puzzling me how the upstream connection attn and speed are so impressive when the downstream is much less so. The upstream has also been largely unaffected by use of different sockets in the house and the bellwire. Initially the upstream was much quicker than the downstream! How might this be the case? I would have thought that up and down are on the same pair of wires and thus both would be affected equally by noise and distance?

Upstream only uses a fraction of the frequency band that Downstream does, so is not so prone to noise.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

But most BT cables come in pairs of lines, as mine do and give identical stats.

You are talking about from the nearest junction point, in my case a telephone pole, to the premises, and generally that is the case. The route from the pole is probably also identical but could be any pair in that larger cable. The connection between each of your pairs at the cabinet could be to totally differently routed "trunk" cables.

I imagine relatively few cabinets have multiple routes to their exchanges, but it is far from unheard of on these forums.

As for the two lines giving identical stats, that is very rare. Even a pair swap due to a fault somewhere between the cabinet and the exchange can alter the stats.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Now that is a very informative answer, thank you!

I'm not saying this is the case on your line, just pointing out it is unfortunately a possibility.

Is there a chance that the isp might ask Openreach to swap my connection over to a better cable route between cab and exchange?

Almost certainly not . Openreach merely have to provide a noise-free phone and 28kbps dialup facility.

Thanks everyone! Looks like I'm not going to get over 1.0Mb from the master socket or 1.1Mb from the test socket however much I plead with the isp or passing Openreach engineers so I won't try.

Just need to decide if I prefer 1-1.1Mb adsl for £26 a month or 2.2Mb mobile broadband for £15 a month.. What might your opinions be? I'm aware of most of the pros and cons. FYI I can get away without a landline so that isn't much of a benefit.

Should the adsl option be the best one then the next step is trying to work out why there is so much loss in the house wiring as it does look like normal cable in the walls [3 twisted pairs - orange, orange stripe, blue, blue stripe, green, green stripe, plastic sheath, no strain braid]. There are four sockets dotted around the place in addition to the master, one of which doesn't work at present, electrician due on Tuesday [free as new build house so why not].

It is using the lower frequencies that are less prone to attenuation

Downstream also is in the AM radio range, so radio stations sometimes don't help by interfering

The main downsides of mobile are that it won't work in a power cut if you rely on VOIP, and the speed can be variable and in many peoples' cases practically unusable - just like ADSL it can be useful or useless depending on location.

The data costs more but if you can get by with 15GB/mo then Three's deal might work for you if you get a decent enough speed. I'd try the PAYG option unless you're certain it will work.

Here we get around 3Mbps most of the time, others can get 7Mbps on some cells - it does vary - but it's pretty well never as slow as ADSL (we dropped the phone line too and went all 3G). But then if e.g. a new school opened between the cell and where I am, it might become useless overnight thanks to the extra load.

Just come back from my next door neighbours house. Also on sky, also connected within 24 hours of me. Once I disconnected his house wiring which was worse than mine he gets 3.5Mb! His stats are as follows:

55ms ping
Connection Speed
3552 kbps down
768 kbps up

Line Attenuation
57.5db down
31.5db up

Noise Margin
7.8db down
7.0db up

This is what I was given to expect at my house so I feel a call to sky may be worth a try

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Just come back from my next door neighbours house. Also on sky, also connected within 24 hours of me. Once I disconnected his house wiring which was worse than mine he gets 3.5Mb! His stats are as follows:

55ms ping
Connection Speed
3552 kbps down
768 kbps up

Line Attenuation
57.5db down
31.5db up

Noise Margin
7.8db down
7.0db up

This is what I was given to expect at my house so I feel a call to sky may be worth a try

Are these your stats?

Line Attenuation
72.5 dB down
46.7 dB up

Noise Margin
9.3 dB down
7.3 dB up

If so, his attenuation is very much lower than yours which accounts for the speed difference.

Get them to send you a replacement router to try. Or have you got one, and could try that if they give you the logon details?

Ha! His is exactly on the nose!

There's your answer:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Line Attenuation: 57.5db down

almost the same as the 55 dB I predicted you would need to get your speed in that range.

No use talking to your ISP. Your line is just too long to get his speeds. Why don't you believe us that you will never get them and your line takes the scenic route?

You are living in cloud-cuckoo land

But they are next door - could be something else.

True, could be!

I like the idea of trying another router; it could be misreporting/faulty.

Yeah, me too

Stats off a different router:

Connection Speed
1193 kbps down
691 kbps up

Line Attenuation
63 db down
21.5 db up

Noise Margin
7 db down
7 db up

A step in the right direction in attn? Not enough for the full 3.4Mb I suspect though. Dynamic line stabilisation running no doubt so will leave second router plugged in for a while to see what happens.

Try reconnecting with this new router some time after 10am.

What if you put your phone # and your neighbour's in here: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search to confirm, or otherwise, you are on same exchange?

EDIT: You can also compare your expected ADSL1/2+ speeds there by looking at Broadband Checker / BT ADSL

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 02-Apr-11 23:39:16)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

What if you put your phone # and your neighbour's in here: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search to confirm, or otherwise, you are on same exchange?

Which is why, (as I know you realise but he may not), I wanted him to get the phone numbers of relevant neighbours.

No change in attenuation really, many routers only display 63dB as the maximum value for attenuation.

Yep, I did!

However, I do wonder if Sam Knows the actual connected exchange or just the nearest one (from the dialing code)?

However, the Up of 21.5 is surprising.

What intrigues me is where the estimate of 3Mbps + came from.

According to Samknows and based on line profiles at that postcode, only 512kbps should be possible which I'd always interpreted as being the average of the line profiles at the given postcode, so in that respect, 1Mbps is double the average for that area.

Samknows doesn't know how far it is from the exchange though, new postcode not in database perhaps.

How'd you get to that?

HR2 7GA => 2Mbps or greater via ADSL2+

What does this checker have to say, using the phone number? (Or is it LLU phone as well? I forget. In which case try the address).

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 02-Apr-11 23:47:21)

BT ADSL broadband availability
You are connected to the Hereford telephone exchange.

ADSL is available in your area
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL2+ services
According to BT Wholesale, houses at your postcode should be able to support

up to 0.5Mbps via ADSL
1.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max
2Mbps or greater via ADSL2+

Standard ADSL RAG results
You cannot receive 2Mbps ADSL
You cannot receive 1Mbps ADSL
You can receive 512kbps ADSL
You can receive 256kbps ADSL
You are approximately 0 metres from the exchange. Note that this is the straight line distance - the actual cable length will be longer!

» Your BT ADSL code is: REGEGEZ

» Matched result using the postcode you provided

--

Looks like an area with long and/or poor quality lines

If it can only get half a meg on ADSL, the chances of getting 3.5 meg on ADSL2+ don't sound that great.

You shouldn't be looking at "Standard ADSL RAG results" ; they are fixed speed lines, not applicable to you. You should be looking at:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

1.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max
2Mbps or greater via ADSL2+

Perhaps..... but in my experience, if even the fixed 2Mbps isn't do-able, then the line is pretty well a no-go anyway for broadband and is going to be useless.

I just can't see how anyone looking at the information available for that postcode would give an estimate of 3.5Mbps. As I look at the results, I'd expect 0.5 to 1.5meg.

You didn't do that by phone # as I suggested, but by Post Code. Thay is why you are getting the "You are approximately 0 metres from the exchange".

Try it by phone # and your neighbour's and confirm you are both on Hereford exchange - if it allows you to.

Just spotted that there is another anon person posting in addition to myself, will regsiter the first chance I get to help reduce possible confusion.
I should point out that most post code databases don't yet have my postcode. Google maps for example puts me several miles further out of town. The nearest older postcode fyi is HR2 7UT..
Will reconnect the router later this morning when the sun is higher in the sky.

If it says no to 2Meg fixed then line is at 43dB or higher, and at 43dB attenuation 7Meg is feasible via ADSL2+

The old fixed line limits are very conservative.

Postcode not in databases correctly - so why is anyone actually using it to estimate broadband speeds?

Looking at your postcode I think you are that new development at belmont, on CAB-80 which has 2 different cable routes. One cable goes to the Hereford/Cathedral exchange and the other to Hereford/Barton exchange which has all the broadband equiptment in it, and then there are tie cables linking the exchanges together. If you are on the cathederal cable you will only get 1mbit, the barton cable will give you 5mbit, you will need to get them to send openreach round and ask the engineer to change you onto the other cable.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

The nearest older postcode fyi is HR2 7UT

Are you the OP who said he was at HR2 7GA, which PostCode SamKnows did recognise?

Please register or at least sign.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Looking at your postcode I think you are that new development at belmont, on CAB-80 which has 2 different cable routes. One cable goes to the Hereford/Cathedral exchange and the other to Hereford/Barton exchange which has all the broadband equiptment in it, and then there are tie cables linking the exchanges together. If you are on the cathederal cable you will only get 1mbit, the barton cable will give you 5mbit, you will need to get them to send openreach round and ask the engineer to change you onto the other cable.

Now we are talking, cool!
Will bide time until the end of the 10 day period which sky asked me to wait for and then follow your advice!
Many thanks indeed!
OP

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Looking at your postcode I think you are that new development at belmont, on CAB-80 which has 2 different cable routes. One cable goes to the Hereford/Cathedral exchange and the other to Hereford/Barton exchange which has all the broadband equiptment in it, and then there are tie cables linking the exchanges together. If you are on the cathederal cable you will only get 1mbit, the barton cable will give you 5mbit, you will need to get them to send openreach round and ask the engineer to change you onto the other cable.

There is no exchange at the Cathedral, it closed down years ago when the Hereford Cathedral school took over the building. there are connections around there as the cable I got goes back on itself from the Exchange in Barton yard to the cathedral and then back up to me, which is why my attenuation is so bad. 54.5dB, but I am still getting 4.4megabit. Mainly due to the fact that my Thomson router is good on long lines and that my ISP don't use any profiling

Openreach still lease a couple of rooms in the cathederal building and there is still an MDF in there. But not an exchange.

So if there is no exchange in the old Cathedral building do we have any ideas why my attenuation is so different to that of my neighbour? It is as if the cable I'm on goes much further to end up in the same place at each end..
OP

It may well be that the cable goes a long way around to reach the same place

via the scenic route I suggested ages ago

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

So if there is no exchange in the old Cathedral building do we have any ideas why my attenuation is so different to that of my neighbour? It is as if the cable I'm on goes much further to end up in the same place at each end..
OP

It could be you are on a cable that goes there and is then connected to one that goes back to the other exchange.

The MDF mentioned earlier is a Main Distribution Frame, which is what lines connect to at an exchange, so that MDF could be fed from the Barton exchange. Effectively as suggested by zyborg47.

The tie cable from Barton MDF (where the exchage is) to the Cathederal MDF (where your line comes in) adds 14dbs attenuation to your line.

OP's Attn. 70 -14 = 56 =^= Neighbour's Attn. QED!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

OP's Attn. 70 -14 = 56 =^= Neighbour's Attn. QED!

Unless, being an occasional "conspiracy theorist", the Anon arrived at the 14dB difference by the same calculation .

True! Did strike me as I posted
.: QED subject to not being a circular argument!

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

The tie cable from Barton MDF (where the exchage is) to the Cathederal MDF (where your line comes in) adds 14dbs attenuation to your line.

Finally persuaded sky to send openreach out and swap me onto the direct line to Barton. Job done and attn now sensible. Thanks so much for the tip regarding the Cathedral building mdf!!
OP

Full marks to you for getting onto Sky about it, and full marks to Sky for actually caring and getting it fixed!

Wa it hard going, or not too difficult?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Full marks to you for getting onto Sky about it, and full marks to Sky for actually caring and getting it fixed!

Wa it hard going, or not too difficult?

The third attempt was a doddle! The email attempt was answered and closed by the standard email about checking your phone extensions and microfilter, the second attempt was by phone with an "our escalation support team will call you back in 24-72 hours" response. Gave up waiting after 6 days..