Choosing an ISP

Hello you lovely people.

I've been looking on this forum for a long time, but haven't ever posted. Bit like a forum peeping tom. But I've decided to join to get some help from you wonderful lot.

I'm currently looking for a new ISP but unsure on which one to choose. My exchange is Roxton and it doesn't offer a great deal in anything. When I moved house I signed up for Sky Connect and at first all was okay. Recently in peak hours it's been a as slow as a snail in glue, carrying bricks and heading the wrong way. So I've got my Mac code and I'm looking around.

At first I was interested in plusnet but, not too keen to be honest, not sure why. BT is a no, don't want to be tied in for 18 months. In the end I was going to sign up for IDNET but I think I read here that they have gone down hill a bit recently. So I'm a bit confused.

Any help would be very much appreciated.


Thanks all.

Briggsy

Hi and welcome to the forums.
Before anyone can best advise you, may be an idea to post back what sort of data usage per month, the type of thing you use the net for (any P2P etc) and then the sort of budget you have in mind.

You have no LLU on your exchange so that would be out.
Once you post back with the info, then it will be easier for people to recommend packages and providers.

I joined IDNet in Feb, and if I'd been aware of then having "gone downhill" I wouldn't have done. If you've read anything saying they have I think you probably saw a one-off problem someone has had rather than an ISP decline. That can happen any time with any ISP.

If anything, it looks from this as if things are steady or even slightly improving.

It would also be good to post what sort of price range you were looking at - differing providers all have differing prices and features.

Was that reply intended for me? Better to click the Reply button on the post you wish to reply to .

Hi. thanks for the welcome

@vivaciti
Actually that's another area I'm still not set on. I normally consider myself a light user, I mostly browse, but I might do a bit of P2P, maybe once a month if that, but I don't mind doing that overnight. I also stream low standard video content for around 90 minutes a week (sometimes) and only from august to may (easy to guess what I'm viewing). Not too sure on the cost of allowance is for that. Don't really game online, watch a few music videos on youtube and generally thats it. Nothing heavy

I was going for the Home lite package at IDNET which is 10GB peak and 30GB off-peak, thought that would be enough for me.

I actually looked at the Family 30 at vivaciti, shame they (you, if you work for them ) don't do a Family 10 or Family 20 for around £17 or £18 probably of signed up.

Cost wise, probably anything up to £20, maybe less as I'm not really a heavy user of P2P like I used to be and streaming can vary. Being a tight git, probably as cheap as I can get as I need to incorporate the cost of a new router when changing.

@RobertoS
Think it was something to do with line issues and them finding a new alternative. Can't remember to be honest. Sorry to be really vague. One of the reasons I posted was to hear the experiences of others regarding IDNET. I actually used that chart to help select IDNET. Was quite easy to compare the services for me as I have little to choose from. Was looking to move to a smaller ISP as they seem to offer better services when the exchange is not unbundled

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Hang on a mo, Roberto, didn't you post problems of high packet loss and poor performance on the 9th?

This was corroborated by other punters on IDNET confirming the exact same thing?

This was put down to a 'big news day' by an IDNET rep.

Sounds like under capacity to me which would be very disappointing to punters who are possibly paying very high prices for the service and would not expect to see a provider who charges a premium suffering under capacity on 'big news days' .

Edited by deleted (Tue 16-Aug-11 20:47:55)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Hang on a mo, Roberto, didn't you post problems of high packet loss and poor performance on the 9th?

This was corroborated by other punters on IDNET confirming the exact same thing?

This was put down to a 'big news day' by an IDNET rep.

Sounds like under capacity to me which would be very disappointing to punters who are possibly paying very high prices for the service and would not expect to see a provider who charges a premium suffering under capacity on 'big news days' .

Yes I did, here. The corroboration you refer to, (by only one poster), I didn't reply to at the time because I did not agree with the poster that his BQM was at all like mine, but didn't feel like upsetting him.

He would seem to have suffered from the same effect, I agree, and I did find the post by simon a little disturbing. However I feel confident that IDNet will have noted what happened and will be taking the necessary steps.

I believe BT slows down most evenings, which IDNet doesn't. Any idea how that was on the 9th? Or shall I dig out some mud to throw back ?

You well know that increasing MSIL capacity is a relatively minor task. I'm sure it will be done if and when needed.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

.......I did find the post by simon a little disturbing. However I feel confident that IDNet will have noted what happened and will be taking the necessary steps.

I think it worth pointing out that in the past where major news events have been anticipated, iDNet have increased capacity to cover it. Unfortunately major stock market crashes and riots in the streets aren't generally predictable.....

I have ben with Idnet for over 5 years now and have never noticed any problems with them at all. Thier capacity is always increased in advance of any likely shortage and they are still one of the best isp's around.

I'm more than likely going to choose IDNET as my next ISP, no-one else has really added anything else in this post, sadly.

Do they do referrals or anything in that manner. Could always suggest me if you wanted

Your Sky router can be unlocked from Sky, though that's not my area to advise how on. Lots of people buy them off eBay and do just that.

No referral scheme that I'm aware of, but good of you to suggest it .

It is only a monthly contract as well, so easy enough to upgrade or move if you need more allowance.

Nothing wrong with Plusnet on 20CN as long as you know how their traffic management works on their BB packages, fortunately it is reasonably well explained on their website.

Zen are another premium ISP similar to IDNet and of course there is Andrews and Arnold who are a litte bit different in the way they provide their BB monthly usage allowances, not so good if you use your connection mostly through the mornings and afternoons.

BobE

>>I believe BT slows down most evenings, which IDNet doesn't. Any idea how that was on the 9th?

I have not been able to spot any reports from BT Retail punters suggesting 'things slow down in the evening' and no reports at all of 'things slowing down in the evening' on recent 'big news days' such as the 9th in either the BT Retail or ISP Unhappiness forums.

>>Or shall I dig out some mud to throw back?

Why would you wish to 'throw mud'? Surely factual advice is preferable in the 'which isp' forum rather than made up stuff and mud slinging?

Independent site, ThinkBroadband's moderator, Billford also notes that he does not know of BT Retail 'slowing down in the evening' and suggests such slowdowns only appear to affect small altcos. Perhaps you could also 'throw some mud' at the respected site mods?

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4033483-re-...

Edited by deleted (Wed 17-Aug-11 21:01:18)

In reply to a post by SMBRiggs:

I'm more than likely going to choose IDNET as my next ISP, no-one else has really added anything else in this post, sadly.

Do they do referrals or anything in that manner. Could always suggest me if you wanted

There is a scheme
IDNet referral

Post deleted by SMBRiggs

There is a scheme
IDNet referral

Thanks for that. Things are becoming clearer.

To whom are you imputing ulterior or dishonest motives? Clearly not me, as I wasn't aware of the scheme.

That is a disgusting lowlife post. Even though I disagree with you on many things, I didn't think you were that pathetic. I merely thought you bigoted.

No longer.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

There is a scheme
IDNet referral

Thanks for that. Things are becoming clearer.

Rather churlish pop at a member who has a long history of helping and supporting members....generally as I recall to meet the posters needs independent of any ISP. You on the other hand have a long record of supporting BT.

This from a "respected site mod,(I get the irony) and in any case a mod's opinion is just that an "opinion", and should carry as much weight as any other member's opinion in these matters.

Except yours of course.

>>Rather churlish pop at a member who has a long history of helping and supporting members....generally as I recall to meet the posters needs independent of any ISP. You on the other hand have a long record of supporting BT.

Making stuff up does not help members. Neither does flouncing when being called on for making stuff up.

Presumably, the smaller ISPs slow down due to the huge costs of bandwidth they have to pay to BT?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Presumably, the smaller ISPs slow down due to the huge costs of bandwidth they have to pay to BT?

Don't worry about him. He made his own random joints in his brain's logic circuits.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Neither does flouncing when being called on for making stuff up.

I assume that refers to me. As I said before, the post sadoldman objects to could not have been so doing, as I wasn't aware there was such a scheme.

My difficulty in refuting things you say is that you are impervious to logic, and totally incapable of understanding that BT Retail is demonstrably not the UK's best ISP for many people. I usually have more interesting and useful things to do than deal with irritants such as yourself.

You can't even accept that I in particular often agree with you about Infinity being possibly the best choice of FTTC for most people. For ADSL2+ that is far from being the case.

You may believe me to be a liar, but that's (one of) your problem(s). I believe you to be an utter ass, in the non-American meaning of the word, and that is not a problem to me at all.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Presumably, the smaller ISPs slow down due to the huge costs of bandwidth they have to pay to BT?

Which is exactly why the better LLU providers don't suffer the same problems (as they source their bandwidth from other wholesale transit providers).
The likes of O2, BE, Sky and Talk-Talk don't have to pay BT's over-priced back-bone bandwidth, so they can either offer a cheaper or better service (their choice).

Clearly BT's bandwidth is too expensive.
If it was cheap the LLU providers would buy it (they're not stupid, after all). The fact they don't points towards BT bandwidth being too expensive.

Despite the warnings (from certain pro-BT supporters - they know who they are) many months/years back that these small-time bit players would soon fall by the wayside (because they only have a dozen customers per exchange - was one outlandish claim a while back - clearly not true, as I personally know more than 12 people with a BE/O2 connection in this town, and there's no possible way I can know all BE/O2 customers in a town with 50,000 people), the LLU providers are still going and still able to provide almost flat-out speeds 24/7 (excepting the odd network & routing issue - something BT shouldn't suffer as their networks must be so huge, they should be able to re-route traffic almost un-noticed by their users).

Agree on all points (especially the "utter ass" bit - a fair conclusion in my book).

Hi Roberto

You advised punters that BT Retail 'slows down in the evening'

You were called on it.

You didn't come up with the goods.

The rest is just flouncing and personal attacks.

Edited by deleted (Sat 20-Aug-11 21:54:12)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Hi Roberto

You advised punters that BT Retail 'slows down in the evening'

You were called on it.

You didn't come up with the goods.

The rest is just flouncing and personal attacks.

OK (and since you're so keen on taking a single post as evidence of how poor an ISP can be); here's one post from a non-P2P user who says BT slows down in the evenings.
Satisfied?

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

You advised punters that BT Retail 'slows down in the evening'

You were called on it.

You didn't come up with the goods.

You were asked to provide information as to who was posting referral links on the forums, you failed to come up with the goods.

Here.

Let's face it, your accusation against RobertoS of failing to back up one post is more than a little hypocritical.

Edited by billford (Sat 20-Aug-11 22:10:27)

In reply to a post by adebov:

OK (and since you're so keen on taking a single post as evidence of how poor an ISP can be); here's one post from a non-P2P user who says BT slows down in the evenings.

Interesting thread that. At the time I particularly liked his:-

I'm yet to see a BT customer having a negative outcome from any customer emailing the BT CEO.

As a shareholder, I'm happy with that

which I didn't comment on. As I just said, I usually have better things to do than take him to task. (Something he delights in wrt others).

Not the shareholder bit, that would have been petty, but the fact he clearly regards it as perfectly acceptable that customers should need to email the CEO of a Group the size of BT, because their problems cannot be resolved by anyone lower down.

That is one powerful recommendation for BT .

Indeed.
The fact that customers even have to report faults to the group CEO is a very poor state of affairs.
I wouldn't expect to have to e-mail Takanobu Ito if my car breaks down. I would fully expect the local dealer or Honda UK customer support to be fully capable of fixing the problem without being pushed from above.

EDIT: As a share-holder I would certainly NOT be happy with the CEO office having to get involved in day to day fault fixing, because regular support is ineffectual.
The job of a CEO is to ensure the company makes a profit for the shareholders (or owners), not to act as 3rd line support because 1st & 2nd line support keep telling people to go away.

Edited by adebov (Sat 20-Aug-11 22:24:07)

To get back on topic.

Personally I'd recommend Zen.

Really great technical support from enthusiastic people who really do everything they can to help.

No traffic shaping or port blocking.

You can purchase additional bandwidth when you need it and if you excced your allowance you are directed to the site to buy more if you want to so there is no possibility of unexpected additional usage charges.

They regularly upgrade their network.

I see it got sorted http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/t/4012556-re-bt-...

In reply to a post by techguy:

To get back on topic.

Personally I'd recommend Zen.

Quite funny, in view of your experience.

In reply to a post by techguy:

To get back on topic.

Personally I'd recommend Zen.

Really great technical support from enthusiastic people who really do everything they can to help.

No traffic shaping or port blocking.

You can purchase additional bandwidth when you need it and if you excced your allowance you are directed to the site to buy more if you want to so there is no possibility of unexpected additional usage charges.

They regularly upgrade their network.

The last 4 lines apply to several of the smaller ISPs, who view their customers as people not income streams

Zen are one of the good ones, but I'd be reluctant to make a blanket recommendation for any ISP, they each have their own pros and cons to best suit what an individual requires from the service.

Hence the existence of this forum

Indeed after a month and an upgrade in the exchange (apparently - if you believe the excuse/reason given by BT).
Still; the point was to post a complaint about low BT speeds in the evening.
After all; that is all RJ requested (and how do we know the IDNet reported fault won't get fixed).

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by techguy:

To get back on topic.

Personally I'd recommend Zen.

Quite funny, in view of your experience.

If you'd read the threads you'd see there was an issue with the PM system and one of my replies did not get back to the member of staff that was trying to carry out BT checks for me.

I made a bit of a harsh comment which I retract indicating that I thought the person may have got bored when I should have perhaps asked whether the PM had been received.

When I rang technical support and enquired about the socket replacement a fault was raised to get it replaced no questions asked.

As I've explained before when you've added little more than additional disk space requirements with your replies I'm very glad that BE does what you need but all I got when I tried O2 (which used the same infrastructure when I tried them which I verified from a trace route) after being a happy O2 mobile customer which I still am was a flappy line, no attempt to carry out any diagnostics before sending a BT engineer out and when I tried to claim on their money back guarantee after returning their equipment some call centre guy demanding I send in bank statements to someone he would only call 'Mark' after he kept insisting that they had sent the money but my bank confirmed nothing had been received.

So personally I wouldn't touch O2 ADSL or BE with a barge pole now but then again that is my personal experience. but I am always wary of ISPs.

I also had a bad experience at plusnet which was so bad in fact I bought myself out of the contract as they did not offer monthly terms then.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by techguy:

To get back on topic.

Personally I'd recommend Zen.

Really great technical support from enthusiastic people who really do everything they can to help.

No traffic shaping or port blocking.

You can purchase additional bandwidth when you need it and if you excced your allowance you are directed to the site to buy more if you want to so there is no possibility of unexpected additional usage charges.

They regularly upgrade their network.

The last 4 lines apply to several of the smaller ISPs, who view their customers as people not income streams

Zen are one of the good ones, but I'd be reluctant to make a blanket recommendation for any ISP, they each have their own pros and cons to best suit what an individual requires from the service.

Hence the existence of this forum

Indeed Bill

Small and medium size ISPs tend to give a better service because they live or die by their reputation and those running them tend to be closer to the customers than the big ones.

That was O2

BE are not O2

Recommending an ISP regardless of your own experience puts you firmly in fanboi territory.

BE also currently appear to be having congestion issues, so god knows why they are still being recommended to people.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

BE also currently appear to be having congestion issues, so god knows why they are still being recommended to people.

Because you're wrong. Simples.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

BE also currently appear to be having congestion issues, so god knows why they are still being recommended to people.

Because you're wrong. Simples.

Not me who is wrong must be this...

http://beusergroup.co.uk/?id=769

A problem now fixed as demonstrated in the f8lure graphs

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

BE also currently appear to be having congestion issues, so god knows why they are still being recommended to people.

Because you're wrong. Simples.

Not me who is wrong must be this...

http://beusergroup.co.uk/?id=769

From your link

Edit: 2011-08-18 22:05:47 - Could this be anything to do with the problem.. BE have announced planned work tonight: Due to maintenance on the links of one of Peering providers, for a short period of time some of the other Peerings might get congested (causing higher than usual latency to specific websites and servers) between 0:01 AM and 6:00 AM on 19.08.

Some fix was done a few days ago.

You can tell there's no problem due to no issues being posted in the BE forum.

If you register for this forum, you will be able to post there too.

Still complaints in BEs private forum.

Not going to argue people can believe known die hard BE supporters (which have rushed to deflect the matter in 2 threads), or the facts.

I do not care either way. I will not be the one stuck with a rubbish service signing up to them.
FTTC tomorrow for me wooohoo

Newbies looking for an ISP and believe the claims of BE supporters enjoy your congested product

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Still complaints in BEs private forum.

I wonder who's making them?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Still complaints in BEs private forum.

I wonder who's making them?

Must be these people. As just some examples

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/reviews/5346.html

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/reviews/5357.html

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/reviews/5344.html

I never bothered to moan as its also clear from their private forum thats a waste of time and they do not fix issues.

FTTC for meeeeee can not wait until tomorrow.

Enjoy your peering and routing issues, disconnections, congestion, IWF problems and anything else ive missed in the quick glance at BEs private forum and review sites LOL

Keep recommending them though, there is an idiot born every minute so you are bound to convince some one.

I bet your dad was bigger than anybody else's at your school as well.

Until you said you wouldn't be signing up to Be I did think you were one of two possibles. However, one has the courage to post under his nick, not anonymously, and the other is a Be customer but hasn't been seen here for a bit. .

So you do seem to be a very strange person with no realistic backing for your claims.

Two of the three are by tommy, one of the two I just referred to here. I can't quite see how he, plus the other I referred to a few minutes ago, plus is it two others you have found(?), amount to complete damnation of an ISP.

Neither am I aware of any mechanism whereby the ratings shown here can be rigged to prevent unhappy customers marking them down.

Re your FTTC, that is likely to be excellent. Enjoy . Even Infinity is good.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I bet your dad was bigger than anybody else's at your school as well.

And then the supporters resort to things like this when they can not win.

Again it appears they have a history of this when confronted with facts.

What facts by who? You are just a faceless mouth, with four cases at most to cite. Against an 80% approval rating from existing customers.

I know which carries more weight with me, and with most people.

Register so you opinions can be tracked over time, or are you afraid you will get shown up if you do that.

And at least 4 of us regular posters here having no problem at all, which balances out the negatives points of view quite nicely

And only one post in the relevant thread in the official BE forums since the problem was fixed. Hardly damning evidence there is still a problem

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You are just a faceless mouth....

Insults, nice is that the best you can come up with?

In reply to a post by nredwood:

And only one post in the relevant thread in the official BE forums since the problem was fixed. Hardly damning evidence there is still a problem

Lies again as the poor user will find out if they sign up to the dreadful provider you and 4 others peddle here. Massive long thread about it.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Recommending an ISP regardless of your own experience puts you firmly in fanboi territory.

Don't you ever get bored trolling?

The service I have received has been good all in all and the issues I've had have been BT related so as the majority of ISPs are BT deoendent it wouldn't have mattered much who I used if they were using BT DSL circuits.

I tried O2 who use BE's DSL infrastructure so a line that flaps under ADSL 2+ on their infrastructure isn't likely to become stable overnight just because the bill is paid to BE rather than O2 (who own BE incidentally but then if you had done proper research you would know this)

Up until recently I've been a shift worker so it may come as a surprise that during times when I am not working I have better things to do with my time like sleeping rather than chasing ISPs to deliver a service I am paying for.

In the main the service has just worked and problems have been dealt with swiftly, the only reason I am now looking to see if I can seriously improve the performance of my line is I will be working on Boxing Day for the first time and I have been told home working will be permitted which is preferable to going into the office to just do equipment monitoring in the main.

But then again presumably uou don't work as you seemingly have all the time in the world to contemplate your ADSL connection and make useless accusations about people being fanboys just because they disagree with your point of view.

When you start working for a living you'll appreciate what I'm saying.

Fact

Only one post from ricey66 since the problem was fixed

Show me your proof

Here's mne
http://i56.tinypic.com/swvnnc.jpg

Edited by nredwood (Sun 21-Aug-11 19:46:12)

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You are just a faceless mouth....

Insults, nice is that the best you can come up with

?
What's insulting about saying an Anonymous poster is a "faceless mouth"?

Just a statement of fact. The two terms are virtually synonymous. The only possible insult can be from a guilt complex reaction from your id.

Now if you had said "dismissive", I would have agreed. That was my intent .

I suggest a refresher course on English Comprehension. Or EAFL. Both quite cheap at night-school.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 21-Aug-11 23:28:31)

In reply to a post by techguy:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Recommending an ISP regardless of your own experience puts you firmly in fanboi territory.

Don't you ever get bored trolling?

Pointing out your mistakes isn't trolling. I'm not even trying to make you look stupid, you're doing that on your own.

Id suggest you have a big gob and small brain. Like the other BE fans on this board.

The BE snake oil sellers can not help there self. The only things they can do is shout insults and troll. Unfortunately it seems the staff support loud mouth resident trolls like Batboy, and insulting children like RobertoS.

Ill let Nredwood off, being a BE usergroup member its almost like their duty to defend their congested to hell ISP.

What goes through their heads popping up to randomly defend BE though even when evidence has been posted to show otherwise is anyone's guess.

That aside to be fair........ AND SENSIBLE ADVICE

Anyone can see how bad BE are before they join, you only need to ring the support number first and experience that call. Something id suggest anyone considering ANY ISP does before hand. If that part of the service is also poor at that level run away, no matter who the ISP is.

Im confident if they call 0808 101 34 30 and choose the support option (number 6 i think) they will soon decide which people here they should listen to.

Unless some miracle happens and for the first time in history a five minute phone call to them doesnt cut you off or keeping cutting in and out.

Thats the sensible thing for people to do to solve this isnt it....... Listen to neither party and find out for there self.

Ill let Nredwood off, being a BE usergroup member its almost like their duty to defend their congested to hell ISP

To add I'm extremely happy with BE and my opinion is based purely on personal experience and nothing to do with being part of the BE Usergroup

Have only had to call support on 3 or 4 occasions and they have been polite, helpful and resolved the problem on every occasion. No issues with the call quality or the Be agent who has dealt with my query. I've never been cut off in the middle of a call and whenever it has been reported by others who have been cut off, 99% of the time BE have called them back

All tickets I've ever raised (and not many by all accounts) have been responded to within a few hours

BE raised a LL5 SFI task for Openreach to resolve a problem with intermittent and very regular drops and despite a duff Openreach engineer, my dropwire was eventually replaced. Despite multiple complaints whilst on BT Broadband, I could nver get them to acknowledge the fault

I've only suffered from congestion on 2 or 3 occasions and this was resolved within backhaul supplier time frames i.e. order to increase bandwidth

The current LINX / peering issues have not affected me at all even when I have seen a latency increase, I have not noticed it in normal usage

So you can see I have no issue with BE and no reason to complain and in my opinion they rightly deserve all the accolades and awards they have been given

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Anyone can see how bad BE are before they join, you only need to ring the support number first and experience that call.

If that's the case, logic dictates that either the entire userbase of BE are masochists, or stupid, or have had a different experience to yourself. Regardless of the reason (real or supposed), they have made their decision and some seem happy with the service.

You seem to have had problems with them or your demands are unreasonable. I suggest you choose another ISP, move on, and enjoy life.

That's from a Plusnet user, in case you're wondering. Never used BE. Have no plans to use BE.

BE IS CONGESTED

http://ukinternetreport.co.uk/?p=d&id=103

Anon poster, which despite the rude accusations wasnt me......... IS 100% CORRECT!!

Now the thread and the lies can be locked properly.

NOT FOR ME

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

Anon poster, which despite the rude accusations wasnt me.........

So just a coincidence the anon poster has been posting in the style of maybe one of two or three people who have some unfathomable problem with BE whilst you've served your ban, and your ban ended today (and the anon poster is suddenly replaced by posts from you).
Yeah; just a coincidence.

In any case; BE is not congested (if they were, speeds would be plummeting just like they do at every other congested ISP).
BE has one link to an 3rd party network (LINX) which has a habit of not responding quickly to pings.
Not exactly what you would call a massive problem (well; you might, but everybody else will see this as a routing issue and NOT a congestion issue).

Apart from anything else; stop hijacking threads with irrelevant comments about BE (which wasn't even being discussed here, until this "mystery" anon poster butted in and tried to steer an IDnet thread into one slagging off BE).

Please take another ban anytime you like (the sooner, the better, really)

Edited by adebov (Mon 22-Aug-11 14:04:34)

And I would definitely recommend IDNET at least you know who you are talking to and that they will do their utmost to resolve all issues. Just to bring it back to Idnet part of thread.

It's quite possible that certain parts of BE's network are starting to creak a little if local demand has been high so while the anon poster has had issues others may not have done.

I think we need to tone down the insults here folks, its really not helping anyone.

Edited by techguy (Mon 22-Aug-11 16:34:55)

In reply to a post by nredwood:

NOT FOR ME

NOT WHAT YOU SAID HERE

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/which_isp/t/4035285...

AND PROVEN WRONG ABOUT ............... AGAIN!

In reply to a post by adebov:

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

Anon poster, which despite the rude accusations wasnt me.........

So just a coincidence the anon poster has been posting in the style of maybe one of two or three people who have some unfathomable problem with BE whilst you've served your ban, and your ban ended today (and the anon poster is suddenly replaced by posts from you).
Yeah; just a coincidence.

More lies, my ban ended on Sun 14th August, would you like staff to confirm that or a screen grab?

Ill happily make you and Miss Beusergroup look like clowns all day.

I consider your comments libellous and harrassment and ask you therefore to desist immediately

In reply to a post by nredwood:

I consider your comments libellous and harrassment and ask you therefore to desist immediately

I consider your threats, like your facts and LIES to people about congestion, hot air.

Grow up! You are boring, boring, boring ...

better that than a usergroup member that lies about the service and its issues.

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

More lies, my ban ended on Sun 14th August, would you like staff to confirm that or a screen grab?

Feel free to post any screen-grabs you like (but don't doctor them as you've been accused of doing in the past - not by me, I hasten to add).
Your ban may well have ended on August 14th but you didn't post under your real user-name until 13:16 today (August 22nd).
This information is fact and can be seen by anyone who views the post listing under your profile.
I'll leave it up to individual users to draw their own conclusions as to whether to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've spent the last eight days away from this forum (not being tempted, in any way, to post your usual anti-BE drivel), or whether you've been posting anti-BE drivel as an anonymous user.
There certainly has been an increase in anonymous posts (between your last post at 01:25 on August 7th, and when you returned at 13:16 on August 22nd).

Oddly enough; there hasn't been a single anonymous anti-BE post since you started posting at 13:16 today - probably just a coincidence.

These anonymous posts do seem to be written in the same inflammatory (and accusatory) style as your own posts, but like I said everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

Given you post heavily (twelve posts in a little over five hours today) it's unlike you to have left such a huge gap between August 14th and August 22nd (without a single post), but like I said - you could have been on holiday (and a real holiday, not your usual type of holiday away from the forum).

Ill happily make you and Miss Beusergroup look like clowns all day

Like the anonymous poster who, in the middle of childish insults, suggested Robertos was acting like a spolit child; I'll respond in the following manner....
Who do you think most people will assume to be the clown here?

I have not experienced any issues and never said I had in that post

All I did was point out a problem which has been acknowledged by BE support and was reported by them as fixed - subsequently it appears there is still an issue albeit not as widespread as when first reported

Twisting things again to suit your own needs in order to belittle others

My f8lure graphs for the last week:

15th August
http://i55.tinypic.com/w1zeaq.png

16th August
http://i55.tinypic.com/2r3j8np.jpg

17th August
http://i52.tinypic.com/28rfllg.jpg

18th August
http://i52.tinypic.com/25kspd0.jpg

19th August
http://i54.tinypic.com/2mmbjpj.jpg

20th August
http://i54.tinypic.com/1192uer.jpg

21st August
http://i54.tinypic.com/259io3c.jpg

Will happily provide the TBBQM ones as well if more evidence is needed

Show me anything in the above that shows I experienced any latency related to the LINX issue

You can clearly see the outage for the maintenance work just after 1am on 19th

We'll have to wait and see on that

Who is lying?

From what I can see, there is only one person lying and twisting things to suit themselves here

In reply to a post by nredwood:

Who is lying?

From what I can see, there is only one person lying and twisting things to suit themselves here

Another lie........ More than one person has mentioned congestion in the BE section on this very site.

You just cant help yourself can you, you are just a big liar

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

BE IS CONGESTED
http://ukinternetreport.co.uk/?p=d&id=103
Anon poster, which despite the rude accusations wasnt me......... IS 100% CORRECT!!
Now the thread and the lies can be locked properly.

Pinging ISP's routers is not indicative of very much because these are handled by the control plane. You will get spikes pinging our routers as well even though there is no routing capacity issues, if a handful of BGP sessions each with a few hundred thousand routes flap..

seb

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

You just cant help yourself can you, you are just a big liar

I give it no later than this evening (if you get what I mean)

Fair enough now why do users also experience increased latency at peak times?

EDIT:

Ignoring the site i mentioned........
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/0a871...

8pm here comes the latency increases eh?

Edited by deleted (Mon 22-Aug-11 20:55:24)

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

Fair enough now why do some users also experience increased latency at peak times?

You missed a SOME in the above.

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/0a871...

That is my link. Please don't post it where you cannot back up any of the information.

Edited by jchamier (Mon 22-Aug-11 20:58:29)

Granted should had stated SOME users. Which is normally the case with things like this.

Your link was posted as secondary evidence of the situation to the other link i also posted.

I also apologise to you if you did not wish it posted, i only did so as you shared it earlier today on these forums and i thought you would be ok with it being posted again to show users thinking of BE what has been happening to SOME users at peak times.

I am sorry if you considered that wrong. Please accept my apology on that matter.

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

Fair enough now why do users also experience increased latency at peak times?

For the same reason a car engine uses less fuel going downhill (or with fewer people on board)....It has less work to do.
You try and route millions of requests a second and see how you cope

Blimey SMBRiggs, Do you normally stir a hornets� nest up with such innocence.

In reply to a post by adebov:

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

Fair enough now why do users also experience increased latency at peak times?

For the same reason a car engine uses less fuel going downhill (or with fewer people on board)....It has less work to do.
You try and route millions of requests a second and see how you cope

Other links looking at the site i posted appear to do fine.

Err....and?
As has been stated, even the latency issue at BE doesn't affect all users, so I'm hardly surprised.

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

Fair enough now why do users also experience increased latency at peak times?

EDIT:
Ignoring the site i mentioned........
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/0a871...

8pm here comes the latency increases eh?

That may or may not be related.. my point was that pinging routers on the route isn't an answer, and is only useful when you have other information, and often when you see latency get worse for every subsequent hop, rather than the line itself.

Looking at the BQM graphs, I do see a pattern within BE/O2 users of regular latency spikes.. this does appear on other graphs but I think a bit less (I was wondering if it might be an issue our side but I haven't seen anything to suggest it is).. We have made changes recently to upgrade some routers to get more capacity in etc so something like that sometimes can cause issues due to changes in software etc.. any info on when it starts would be helpful..

Also the pattern I see isn't an 8pm one.. it's happening or not mostly..

seb

In reply to a post by nonBEliever:

In reply to a post by nredwood:

I consider your comments libellous and harrassment and ask you therefore to desist immediately

I consider your threats, like your facts and LIES to people about congestion, hot air.

I consider you both need to take a chill pill guys....

seb

In reply to a post by seb:

Also the pattern I see isn't an 8pm one.. it's happening or not mostly..

If you mean the "comb" type constant yellow lines, this is an artifact of the TG585v7 router (and maybe other thomson routers) and goes away if I use my draytek's built in ADSL modem. But the draytek is less stable on my line.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

If you mean the "comb" type constant yellow lines, this is an artifact of the TG585v7 router (and maybe other thomson routers) and goes away if I use my draytek's built in ADSL modem. But the draytek is less stable on my line.

Ah.. yes.. that is what I was seeing.. We were talking to Adrian K. about coding to detect this kind of pattern (among others).

seb

In reply to a post by seb:

Ah.. yes.. that is what I was seeing.. We were talking to Adrian K. about coding to detect this kind of pattern (among others).

I remember asking you about it when you launched the BQM - I still don't understand what the thomson is doing to delay packets, especially when its in bridge mode - that doesn't seemingly affect downloads.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I still don't understand what the thomson is doing to delay packets, especially when its in bridge mode - that doesn't seemingly affect downloads.

IIRC all of my Speedtouch/Thomson/Technicolor (or whatever they're called this week) routers give very low priority to pings (always show up as a stupidly high ping on the first step of a traceroute) do you think it's the same low priority for incoming pings?
Probably whoever coded the Thomson firmware thought the router would be better spending its time routing than mucking about giving instant responces to pings.

From the 2 BQM and 2 f8lure graphs Ive been monitoring, there is an upward increase onward from 8pm which peaks at about 10pm and then starts to fall again until it returns to normal at about 12am

Doesn't happen with the 780WL or I beleive the 585v6 with v6 firmware, so something introduced with v7

I think BE believe it is something to do with upstream QOS, but that stuff is beyond my knowledge

In reply to a post by nredwood:

Doesn't happen with the 780WL

I stupidly sent one of those back to BE, when I cancelled our office connection last year.
I should have kept it and sent back the useless 585 I've got at home!