non-LLU fibre: better ISP than Sky/BT for small extra cost?

I need to order fibre a.s.a.p. and I'm doing one last review of the options since the deals changed from last time I looked.

Non-LLU exchange so only have access to fibre based on the BT wholesale product. Not opposed to using different providers for phone and fibre, but is it possible to keep the monthly cost nearer £40 than £50 and still have unlimited bandwidth?

Usage requirements:
Calls: 7-8 hrs per month, much daytime, need an anytime call plan (unless 1p/min like Pulse8)
Caller ID is must have.
Peak/daytime bandwidth: 100GB - 200GB or more?* unlimited fibre seems safer choice...
*current ADSL usually sees 50GB usage monthly on peak (8am to midnight) with occasional busy months over 100GB. Planning to use fibre for Prime and/or Netflix so must now allow for significantly increasing the daytime and evening usage.

The usual suspects:
Plusnet - current provider, have let us down & would prefer to move (probably can get a retention deal now but don't care.)
BT - £38 inc. everything, possibly better connection than Sky but worse support.
Sky - £34.4 inc. everything, but for non-LLU exchange so could be awful? potential problems using other hardware than supplied Sky-Hub.

Better quality ISPs:
A&A - price is insane with bandwidth requirement.
Aquiss - £46/m + call charges, caller ID is extra.
Pulse8 - phone only, don't offer BTw fibre.
Uno - £27/m-£35.4/m fibre only (8am-8pm peak bandwidth allowance) £13 line rental may be added once FTTC date is set
Zen - £50.50/m inc. anytime calls, caller ID is extra.

Potential middle ground options?
£27 Uno fibre (100GB usage) + £13 Pulse8 phone = £40 + call charges + caller ID.


Uno might work given the 8am-8pm range is what they consider peak, but on the other hand I think it would be easy to get through 100GB and we'd be stuck with it for 12 months. Sky is the best price & has better TV content, but there are strings attached with the hardware options and some users have issues e.g. stuttering whilst streaming. BT is only a little more expensive than Sky, can't expect much from their customer service but the connection may be better in the long run?

Any thoughts? alternatives that I could take a quick look at?

N.B. the cheapest deals like SSE are off the table, so cheap I don't trust them and too many caveats on those sorts of offers.

Edited by deleted (Sat 12-Sep-15 22:32:15)

No LLU providers in my exchange so wouldn't touch Sky Connect plus fibre is not available.

Try the order process to see if you can get the Sky fibre product you would want >

http://www.sky.com/shop/broadband-talk/fibre-optic/

I'd go BT. You slate their service but I've found it good

Online offer should suit

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/bt/package/1294.html

Can add anytime calls, caller display etc as desired

If Sky Fibre is available even though Sky ADSL2+ is not from your exchange, then indicates the fibre backhaul is going to an exchange where Sky does have an LLU presence. Sky do not use the BT Wholesale WBC network for their fibre products.

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

see if you can get the Sky fibre product you would want

Definitely is available, I know Sky went through a period of refusing to supply new customers on exchanges that didn't have Sky LLU. Now they do offer FTTC packages if BTw is available, but given their previous history with the "Connect" branded ADSL product I feel wary.

Edited by deleted (Sat 12-Sep-15 16:41:30)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If Sky Fibre is available even though Sky ADSL2+ is not from your exchange, then indicates the fibre backhaul is going to an exchange where Sky does have an LLU presence. Sky do not use the BT Wholesale WBC network for their fibre products.

So there should be no concerns about it? it should be the same for everyone? (aside from potential issues that might be caused by side-stepping using the Sky-Hub)

Edited by deleted (Sat 12-Sep-15 16:45:12)

This Sky question has come up before, as I'm sure in the early days of FTTC they wouldn't supply it when it came from a different exchange if the PSTN exchange wasn't LLU to take the phone line.

But I think it was you said the previous time, like now, that they will. Wouldn't that mean them using WLR3 for the line?

In reply to a post by 961a:

I'd go BT. You slate their service but I've found it good

I don't expect much from them, I know it can be OK but I also know a family member was recently without phone & broadband for the best part of 3 weeks due to BT issues and they weren�t overly helpful at the time.

I wonder if TalkTalk do the same? If so, Pulse8 can, as they use TalkTalk Business. That would be £38 or £44 all in. Possibly plus caller display.

Re AAISP, the 40/10Mbps product is only £35 for the 100GB, which is what you are looking at with uno. Also if you do reach the 100GB usage then the unused part of an extra 50GB can be carried to the following month.

I'm on the AAISP 80/20 with Pulse8 line + caller display. AAISP do line rental at £10 with no phone service, but VOIP is available. I considered it but decided I preferred a Pulse8 normal line.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I wonder if TalkTalk do the same? If so, Pulse8 can, as they use TalkTalk Business. That would be £38 or £44 all in. Possibly plus caller display.

That was my first choice, spoke to them 8 weeks ago, emailed yesterday - they can't supply and said we should defintely go ahead with a BTw for 12 months and then come back to them next year if the LLU situation has changed.

It might since there are new houses being built and other works ongoing in the area.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Re AAISP, the 40/10Mbps product is only £35 for the 100GB, which is what you are looking at with uno.

Uno's webpage tells me £27 (£22.49+VAT) for 40/10, 100GB fibre only. £30.6 for 200GB usage, £35.4 for 500GB

Usage scales at a less expensive rate than A&A, but maybe carrying over unused bandwidth helps A&A value.

Edited by deleted (Sat 12-Sep-15 17:06:41)

In reply to a post by Ichneumon:

In reply to a post by 961a:

I'd go BT. You slate their service but I've found it good

I don't expect much from them, I know it can be OK but I also know a family member was recently without phone & broadband for the best part of 3 weeks due to BT issues and they weren�t overly helpful at the time.

I fully accept that and I know the call centre in India can be absolutely dire. However, let me put two things to you.

First, in Market A where BT is the only provider and every other ISP goes through their system, you are dependent not only on BT getting an engineer to sort any problem, but also on your ISP getting on to Openreach promptly. In my own experience in a small village with several suppliers a fault affecting several properties reported at the same time resulted in my line being fixed before others were even being reported. Just an example for what it's worth. Remember BT will talk to its own customers but not those of other ISPs. You are stuck with an additional link in the chain

Second, I have, on a couple of occasions when I have had a beef with their service, e-mailed the chairman. It brings a reply within a couple of hours from a department called executive level complaints and quick solving of a genuine problem assuming, of course, that you are courteous in explaining your difficulty and don't go off on one

So if the BT offer matches your needs I'd have no hesitation in recommending it above the others. When a 12 month contract is up the retentions dept will more often than not match anything on offer elsewhere

In reply to a post by 961a:

...if the BT offer matches your needs I'd have no hesitation in recommending it above the others..

I must admit, I slightly favour BT over Sky right now. If nothing else the Hub is probably a much better unit and BT don't lock users out in the way Sky do (which I find unsettling)

In reply to a post by 961a:

First, in Market A where BT is the only provider and every other ISP goes through their system, you are dependent not only on BT getting an engineer to sort any problem, but also on your ISP getting on to Openreach promptly. In my own experience in a small village with several suppliers a fault affecting several properties reported at the same time resulted in my line being fixed before others were even being reported. Just an example for what it's worth. Remember BT will talk to its own customers but not those of other ISPs. You are stuck with an additional link in the chain

The rules on provider neutrality require Openreach to treat all wholesale customers equally, and BT Wholesale to treat all its ISP customers equally. Some providers are better than others at escalating issues for engineering attention, but it is definitely not the case that BT Retail customers go to the top of the priority queue.

The rules on provider neutrality require Openreach to treat all wholesale customers equally, and BT Wholesale to treat all its ISP customers equally.

Is this actually monitored or checked on by anyone?

In reply to a post by David_W:

In reply to a post by 961a:

First, in Market A where BT is the only provider and every other ISP goes through their system, you are dependent not only on BT getting an engineer to sort any problem, but also on your ISP getting on to Openreach promptly. In my own experience in a small village with several suppliers a fault affecting several properties reported at the same time resulted in my line being fixed before others were even being reported. Just an example for what it's worth. Remember BT will talk to its own customers but not those of other ISPs. You are stuck with an additional link in the chain

The rules on provider neutrality require Openreach to treat all wholesale customers equally, and BT Wholesale to treat all its ISP customers equally. Some providers are better than others at escalating issues for engineering attention, but it is definitely not the case that BT Retail customers go to the top of the priority queue.

I fully accept that. I never suggested there was one queue for BT customers and another for other ISP customerrs

However experience has taught me that some providers are much worse at escalating issues and explaing accurately what the problem is and however fast they report it cannot be as quick as reporting to BT direct

Also, BT will talk to its own customers. I can report faults on their web site which will test the line etc. If I e-mail the BT chairman his staff will listen to me and talk to me on the telephone. I can explain the problem directly to them and be sure they will get on to Openreach on my behalf. If I am a customer of another ISP they won't even reply to my e-mail and their web site is not open to me

If it is the Sky Fibre service then yes should be fine

Nothing stopping them using WLR3 for the line and price is not much difference from MPF LLU anyway these days

Other providers have access to the same line test facilities if WLR3 or via their own hardware if LLU.

It is why Ofcom collate complaints stats, they won't fix anything but they like to know about moans and groans

And given the calls to split Openreach out even more, if a provider had documented proof I would have expected it to be have been used in the last few months.

Uno - £27/m-£35.4/m fibre only (8am-8pm peak bandwidth allowance) phone not available (no LLU exchange.)

Uno's phone/line rental is supplied via the BT Network , you need to read their site more closely.

In reply to a post by AdrianPH:

Uno's phone/line rental is supplied via the BT Network , you need to read their site more closely.

I'll look again, but it wouldn't let me choose anything except the fibre after I entered my phone number for what's available

EDIT: I found another page where it says 'coming soon' for the phone products. That's a dilemma, I don't want to wait in case we lose the window to order on my cabinet - just had to wait 2 months due to availability

Edited by deleted (Sat 12-Sep-15 18:52:57)

You can put the fibre order through first and once you have your committed date confirmed (via email), drop us a sales request via the existing account and we can move the line over manually for you.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

You can put the fibre order through first and once you have your committed date confirmed (via email), drop us a sales request via the existing account and we can move the line over manually for you.

Matt

Thanks! Can you confirm: there is no package deal for fibre + phone?

I see the prices for the fibre product alone, if the phone is added later it will be the £9.99+VAT pre month + extras as chosen?

I need to discuss all this with someone else later and hoping too get a final decision before the weekend is over

Edited by deleted (Sat 12-Sep-15 19:25:19)

You are indeed correct and the price is FTTC plus the line and any features you opt for.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

You are indeed correct and the price is FTTC plus the line and any features you opt for.

Matt

What happens when the peak usage allowance is exceeded? is there a page that says how much extra GBs cost?

Thanks for all the replies and help. BT Infinity ordered, expecting installation on 28th Sept

Fingers crossed it all goes smoothly (it ought to as we're migrating from Plusnet)

yeah he is right, also sky talk is a requirement as well.

Sky dont use BTw for sky fiber, I expect they rent backhaul between exchanges in your case so you get fed off an LLU exchange still.

Always late to the party I am.

I have Zen using BT FTTC and have no problems. Others have Zen's LLU PoP's but I have no problems. I am currently on 5.5TB and I often do 10TB+ a month

In reply to a post by Ichneumon:

(it ought to as we're migrating from Plusnet)

From what I see lately no broadband is better than what they are supplying. Others have migrated away and noticed an near instant upgrade in their QoS!

In reply to a post by ZenUserJP:

In reply to a post by Ichneumon:

(it ought to as we're migrating from Plusnet)

From what I see lately no broadband is better than what they are supplying. Others have migrated away and noticed an near instant upgrade in their QoS!

Just saw the above and thought I should register my disagreement with it.

In reply to a post by ZenUserJP:

From what I see lately no broadband is better than what they are supplying. Others have migrated away and noticed an near instant upgrade in their QoS!

Rubbish, whilst there are undoubtedly some that have had problems with Plusnet there are many such as myself who are experiencing no problems at all. As for yourself, what recent experience do you have of Plusnet? I suspect very little.

Amusingly, although I think we know what ZenUser is meaning, what his post actually says is that Plusnet supply the best broadband.

In reply to a post by MCM:

In reply to a post by ZenUserJP:

As for yourself, what recent experience do you have of Plusnet? I suspect very little.

You suspect wrong. But that's none of your business either.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Amusingly, although I think we know what ZenUser is meaning, what his post actually says is that Plusnet supply the best broadband.

Maybe to you - but not to me? No broadband is better than the [censored] they supply. And people migrate AWAY from PN and notice an improvement with their new provider

So which part of that says they do?

Am I just being fickle?

You suspect wrong. But that's none of your business either.

So that's a no then and just another clueless reply from someone whose posts should be ignored as worthless and who contributes little or nothing to these forums.

No petrol is better than Shell.
No runner is better than Bolt.
No airliner is faster than Concorde.
No broadband is better than Zen broadband.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 19-Sep-15 15:40:31)