Faulty phone line

Had to give my Nan a support call yesterday as her Plusnet phone line and broadband were off (no dial tone, no connectivity). First I checked her complex wiring (how many sockets?!?) then I narrowed it down to a fault off the property. So I called Plusnet on my mobile and reported the fault. When I got home I checked her account and it has a support ticket:

Dear Mrs xxxxx,
Your fault has now been raised with our wholesale provider for further investigation. We will advise when we get more information.

Please note, should the BT engineer find the cause of the fault to be on your internal wiring or setup then a charge of £60 will apply.

**internal**

Fault Type:
NDT
Test Results:
LN (Fault located in local network)
Fault Ref:
TR000000xxxxxxx
All Checks Completed: Y
Customer Agrees to Engineer Charge: Y
Contact Details:
07xxxxxxxxx

Kind regards,

My question is what kind of fault is it? Also, should it take until Thursday to fix like they have said?

'LN' fault'

Local Network. Could be anything between the premises and the exchange. Loop, disconnected, battery, earth, one leg.....

Openreach are fairly busy at present, but unless she's in one of the weather torn areas, they *should* get to it before then.

I cannot believe those Plusnet muppets are still quoting £60 charge when the callout alone is £138 for a weekday and up to £206 on a weekend. You are looking at nearer £200 for a weekday callout and a little work.
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricin...

Edited by professor973 (Sun 08-Jul-12 19:53:28)

In reply to a post by professor973:

I cannot believe those Plusnet muppets are still quoting £60 charge when the callout alone is £138 for a weekday and up to £206 on a weekend. You are looking at nearer £200 for a weekday callout and a little

They can charge whatever they like. What they get charged is irrelevant. Maybe absorbing a large part of the cost is part of their supposedly lousy CS. But £60 suffices to make users do all they can to guarantee it isn't an internal fault.

So who are you to call others muppet? Pot, kettle?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by professor973:

I cannot believe those Plusnet muppets are still quoting £60 charge when the callout alone is £138 for a weekday and up to £206 on a weekend. You are looking at nearer £200 for a weekday callout and a little

They can charge whatever they like. What they get charged is irrelevant. Maybe absorbing a large part of the cost is part of their supposedly lousy CS. But £60 suffices to make users do all they can to guarantee it isn't an internal fault.

So who are you to call others muppet? Pot, kettle?

Well I am someone who could detail a bill much better than this :- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/pnbill.jpg/ But they are determined to carry on in the same chaotic way.
So who are you to call others muppet? Pot, kettle, Idiot?

So you don't dispute my suggestion about the £60 callout charge.

That's good to hear .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

So you don't dispute my suggestion about the £60 callout charge.

I most certainly do or I would not have posted what I did. You are just spouting maybe or possibly. I know what I was recently told by a Openreach engineer. Has anyone here with iffy internal wiring or whatever ever been charged only £60 by Plusnit for an Openreach call-out and repair?
If there is a difference between what OpenReach charge and what Plusnet pass on, they have every opportunity to drop in and clarify the situation, that is if they know what is going on outside the crib-sheet.
In the case of an intermittent noise fault they cannot trace, they will bill you anyway, your fault or not.
http://www.seered.co.uk/bt.htm

Edited by professor973 (Mon 09-Jul-12 08:26:24)

A look at item 13 here https://www.plus.net/info2/legal/business/index.html turns up:-

Repair and customer visits

13. No charges normally arise with the standard fault repair service. However, Plusnet will make a charge for new and replaced items. If the Customer asks requests work to repair a fault on items that Plusnet are responsible for maintaining, and Plusnet or our suppliers are not able to find a fault, Plusnet will charge the Customer for the visit.

14. The standard requests for an engineer to visit to perform work in clause 15, and any standard requests, for example moving a socket, is £95 call out charge, then £65 an hour (or part hour) there after.

15. Where we arrange for an engineer to visit the Customers Premises for activation of the Service, or for resolution of a fault, the Customer will be responsible for any costs incurred owing to any of the following:

(a) an engineer attends an incorrect address as provided by the Customer;

(b) the site for installation does not meet the minimum requirements as agreed during the product registration;

(c) an engineer arrives to carry out the installation at the address provided by the Customer, but you no longer want the installation completed;

(d) entry is refused to the Premises, or access cannot be gained, at the appointed time, as agreed between Plusnet and the Customer;

(e) the Customer reports a fault, an engineer attends the Customer Premises, and discovers the fault is not the result of the Service;

(f) the Customer reported problem, following request for an engineering visit, cannot be confirmed; and

(g) when the Customer cancels a request for an engineering visit later than 48 hours before the scheduled visit.



Muppets I fear !!!!

In reply to a post by professor973:

In the case of an intermittent noise fault they cannot trace, they will bill you anyway, your fault or not.
http://www.seered.co.uk/bt.htm

Twaddle. I've had Openreach in my current house twice and never paid a penny. On the frst occasion the fault was undiagnosed, or they failed to inform me of the problem as it 'fixed itself'. On the second occasion it was a chipset incompatibility issue between a router and the exchange card.

They could have argued that it was my kit. They did not. Plusnet (and some on this site) were helpful throughout both occasions.

If BT are charging people for issues that are not the fault of the resident, then Ofcom need to hear about it. There may be isolated incidents, or ones where both parties refuse to accept responsibility. The fact that some of them might be elderly is neither here nor there. If there is concrete evidence that any company is targetting any section of society for unwarranted charges, the police should be notified.

You seem to have had a bad experience, but if I remember correctly, you complained about the package (60GB) before you signed up. You complained about the switch over, although it wasn't Plusnet's line at that point. You complained about their service notices, and they can be disabled. You complained about the tie in fees, although you must have read the small print.

Now you're away from them and you still complain. Please appreciate that I almost never (less than five posts in eight years) post in the Zen forum, despite leaving them for not caring for their pricing structure. It hasn't changed in the period since I left, nor will it, and I won't spend any time arguing about it.

While I do agree that some of Plusnet's systems are less than perfect, their general customer service (once you get the right people) is top notch, and their products on offer are as good as other ISPs (based on my experiences). Add in the fact that for me (opinions vary) the pricing packages are competitive, I can't complain unless there's an outage. Then I enquire, and if there's less than a satisfactory response, I complain. Once resolved, I've made my point, and that's that. No need to keep moaning if the problem has gone away. If the problems are semi-continuous, I would certainly consider an alternative provider, but only once I have established that:

a) My current provider can't / won't fix my problem;

b) Another provider can / will.

The Broadcom chip compatibility problem between exchange DSLAM & router is well known and could hardly be blamed on the customer.
What is all this "Now you are away from them" � I am not till next week and I can't wait, though forum clever-cloggs always know better.
It is not my fault I have had a bad experience with Plusnet. It is not my fault they hooked me to another persons number when switching to their Broadband, or that I lost the BB for a week again when it was put back to my number.
From the way they detail call packages twice on a bill with no mention of line rental, to the cack-handed way they allocate additional email addresses, it all seems to run as chaotic as possible � Though the pyramid selling gains much support among the anoraks, but so would a dustbin full of rubbish in a general election, so long as it was wearing a red rosette!
As for tie-in fees, I did not complain about them, other than that the years line rental up front wheeze was a chip off the old B.T. company block. One and the same in my book. Can't have B.T BB without line, can't have PN line without BB. Hilarious!

Edited by professor973 (Sun 08-Jul-12 22:57:59)

In reply to a post by professor973:

What is all this "Now you are away from them" � I am not till next week and I can't wait, though forum clever-cloggs always know better.

If that sort of response is typical when dealing with Openreach or your ISP, you will probably encounter problems all along the way. You seem to label anyone with an opposing point of view in such a way. Your choice.

Look at this strange coincidence:-

Last post by m0aur http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/which_isp/t/4125700... Tue 22-May-12 21:19:32

Registration date of our dear professor Fri 25-May-12 21:49:28

A lot explained, methinks. I knew there was something about the posting style ringing bells.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 08-Jul-12 23:25:00)

In reply to a post by professor973:

I cannot believe those Plusnet muppets are still quoting £60 charge when the callout alone is £138 for a weekday and up to £206 on a weekend. You are looking at nearer £200 for a weekday callout and a little work.

What does it matter what OR and the blogosphere quote? Thr OP's Nan has no contract with them.

In fact, she has it in writing from her own supplier, PN, that the charge will be only £60 and then only if a internal fault is found.

PN are at liberty to charge what they like regardless of what their supplier charges them.

You don't learn, do you?

Post deleted by XRaySpeX

You don't learn, do you?

On the contrary, I learn very quickly. I post examples where I can, such as B.T. charges, Plusnet charges and copies of their statement that they pass on all charges. But, whenever a view or statement is backed up, fora pond-life then switch to personal attacks and insults � Something I learnt long ago!

Post deleted by MrSaffron

IIRC we actually get charged £144 + VAT for this, we only pass on £60 from this to the customer (after we've manually vetted that the charge is correct). I don't see how this is a bad thing? We're saving the customer a substantial amount of money and in a lot of cases we dispute the charge and they don't pay anything.

I'm not sure what a small section of a bill shows? That's missing the broadband and call charge from the top.

Make another threat of physical harm against another poster on the bbs and your account will be removed.

As others have correctly pointed out

It does not matter what Openreach list on their pricelist, if Plusnet decide to only charge £60 it is down to them.
Any customer being advised of the charge like this, and being charged more, should pursue this vigorously.

For now until we see cases surfacing like that I suggest you simply sit back and wait.

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

I'm not sure what a small section of a bill shows? That's missing the broadband and call charge from the top.

It details CALL CHARGES TWICE WITH NO MENTION OF LINE RENTAL!! Did you get that?

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

IIRC we actually get charged £144 + VAT for this, we only pass on £60 from this to the customer (after we've manually vetted that the charge is correct). I don't see how this is a bad thing? We're saving the customer a substantial amount of money and in a lot of cases we dispute the charge and they don't pay anything.

At last, an explanation. You are correct, it is not a bad thing, but the link I posted stating PN actually passed on the full higher charges is confusing to say the least, which is not a good thing.
An earlier explanation could have prevented many heated exchanges, which would have been a good thing.

Edited by professor973 (Mon 09-Jul-12 09:43:09)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Make another threat of physical harm against another poster on the bbs and your account will be removed.

I DID NOT make a threat, I said IT WAS A WONDER SOMEONE ELSE had not done him harm. Why do you ALWAYS twist what is said, especially when it comes to defending those with a snotty attitude. Ban me if you like, I shall lose no sleep over it.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Make another threat of physical harm against another poster on the bbs and your account will be removed.

Whereupon he will re-register, yet again, with a different name, and carry on?

Sorry, I must be missing something as the image you've linked to shows the line rental charge (Talk Anytime charge £12.99), the cost for the Anytime call plan (Call Plan charge £3.50) and the Call Features charge (Caller Display charge).
The call charges that aren't included in your Anytime package aren't shown in the snippet you've pasted, neither is your broadband charge.

Have a look here for some info on it: http://www.plus.net/support/customer_service/billing...

Post deleted by RobertoS

Post deleted by RobertoS

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 09-Jul-12 10:02:43)

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

Sorry, I must be missing something as the image you've linked to shows the line rental charge (Talk Anytime charge £12.99), the cost for the Anytime call plan (Call Plan charge £3.50) and the Call Features charge (Caller Display charge).
The call charges that aren't included in your Anytime package aren't shown in the snippet you've pasted, neither is your broadband charge.

Have a look here for some info on it: http://www.plus.net/support/customer_service/billing...

You certainly must be missing something, I will leave you to guess where from. PN are the ONLY supplier that I know that describe line rental as 'Talk Anytime Charge' which it certainly is not, then who then go on to detail talk anytime again under 'Call plan charge'. Are you seriously telling me you see nothing confusing or ham-fisted about such a layout, or are Pn just being as awkward as possible.

No, I actually agree that it isn't as clear as it should be, to change it isn't a really simple fix as those names are pulled from the product name you're on with us. I'll make the suggestion that we should clarify it though.

Yes, confusing with no actual mention of line rental. Not a big problem I know, but along with confusion of repair charges and the obscure way additional email addresses are allocated, which means the original is always on display, all go to make PN hard work in my view. I could add that £17.99p for Market 1 Broadband and high phone charges end with them being poor value against others. £35.47p per month plus chargeable mobile calls is not cheap for a limited service.
As I have stated before, despite PN being the only ISP where I have suffered outages, which were beyond PN control, I have been happy with the actual Broadband delivered by PN. It is customer services when there is a problem. Every area seems so vague. You will note I have stated that you that visit here and help are the exception, as you actually seem to know what is going on.
It was pleasing to see a sort of verification of charges in the event of a repair, but the '£60 after we have satisfied ourselves of this and that', seems to indicate that as stated on the PN page, the full charge could be made, which still makes it as clear as mud to me.

Edited by professor973 (Mon 09-Jul-12 12:09:36)

Sometimes total clarity is impossible to give, until the actual full detail of a specific situation is known.

In reply to a post by professor973:

............... It was pleasing to see a sort of verification of charges in the event of a repair, but the '£60 after we have satisfied ourselves of this and that', seems to indicate that as stated on the PN page, the full charge could be made, which still makes it as clear as mud to me.

The mud I see is what you use to muddy the waters.Those that cannot see that this post is quite straightforward and clear need a better understanding of the language perhaps. Also the "verification" as I understand it is more to confirm that a charge should be legitimately made made in the first place, after all Plusnet will be taking a hit as well as the customer.


Basically a confirmation of what was indicated in the OP.....so, much ado about nothing.

Muddy waters run deep....and throws threads off track

Sorry OP the thread is back to you, I hope if, you want to add anything

In reply to a post by professor973:

but the '£60 after we have satisfied ourselves of this and that', seems to indicate that as stated on the PN page, the full charge could be made,

Anybody bar a Professor of Agitation such as yourself would see that this says that PN will vet that the charge raised upon them by OR is justified, not the charge they themselves might raise against the customer.