BT home Hub 5

Hi All,

Anyone know when the BT Home Hub 5 is being released?

It sounds as though they are on their way to bods like me, so I guess they'll be going to punters soon........

Cheers, looked at the specs, and it looks fantastic, plus it's one less box, as it no longer needs the white BT wholesale infinity box to connect to>

In reply to a post by zrerz:

the white BT wholesale infinity box

"White BT Openreach modem".

November I believe, with the usual free to upgrade if renewing contract offer.

Well you can buy them from BT now, so I expect they are available now.

Hasn't been officially released yet though...

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Oct-13 21:16:06)

I received my HH5 on Monday and just had broadband activated. Obviously I can't write a review of the HH5 yet, given that I've only been on for half an hour, but will try to update in time.

The Openreach engineer seemed surprised that I had one (he read through the booklet too) once I mentioned that I had the 5 (he was about to install the white box).

Looks quite nice as routers go, easy enough to set up, better than having a separate modem and router too.

In reply to a post by letongue:

I received my HH5 on Monday and just had broadband activated. Obviously I can't write a review of the HH5 yet, given that I've only been on for half an hour, but will try to update in time.

The Openreach engineer seemed surprised that I had one (he read through the booklet too) once I mentioned that I had the 5 (he was about to install the white box).

Looks quite nice as routers go, easy enough to set up, better than having a separate modem and router too.

You can also see line stats at least some, can you copy and paste over here what they've made available to you. I know the testers have various firmware versions, would be nice to see what BT has chosen to go with for release Hubs.

Will the HH5 plug into where I have my HH3 when I upgrade to fibre?

sorry if this is a stupid question but it is my first post....

Unless self install FTTC has been rolled out, then the answer is no.

The HH5 is meant to be able to be used without the white Openreach modem, but until that option appears you are stuck with the usual white Openreach modem, and the usual master socket, or data extension solutions.

FTTC is a LOT more sensitive to the in home wiring, so sorting that out into the most optimal solution is a very good idea, and generally the way FTTC is installed by the engineers means this happens.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

In reply to a post by letongue:

Looks quite nice as routers go, easy enough to set up, better than having a separate modem and router too.

From the images and videos online, it looks like a HH4 with a blue strip. Doesn't look as good with the blue strip, but I guess that's personal preference.

http://www.cable.co.uk/images/content/bt-infinity-ho...
http://www.techadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/345689...

Any idea's about the power usage compared to the two box setup?

--

Post deleted by letongue

In reply to a post by ryant704:

In reply to a post by letongue:

I received my HH5 on Monday and just had broadband activated. Obviously I can't write a review of the HH5 yet, given that I've only been on for half an hour, but will try to update in time.

The Openreach engineer seemed surprised that I had one (he read through the booklet too) once I mentioned that I had the 5 (he was about to install the white box).

Looks quite nice as routers go, easy enough to set up, better than having a separate modem and router too.

You can also see line stats at least some, can you copy and paste over here what they've made available to you. I know the testers have various firmware versions, would be nice to see what BT has chosen to go with for release Hubs.

Is this what you're looking for?


VDSL Line Status



Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 1 days, 08:03:16
Downstream: 78.12 Mbps
Upstream: 19.53 Mbps

Indeed it is, but there might be more!

Follow these instructions!

1. Go to 192.168.1.254 (Home Hub)
2. Click "Trouble shooting"
3. Then "Helpdesk"

Copy and paste the Information here, of course depending what is shown in the HomeHub 5 you may need to remove some so feel free if you're worried.

In reply to a post by ryant704:

Indeed it is, but there might be more!

Follow these instructions!

1. Go to 192.168.1.254 (Home Hub)
2. Click "Trouble shooting"
3. Then "Helpdesk"

Copy and paste the Information here, of course depending what is shown in the HomeHub 5 you may need to remove some so feel free if you're worried.

3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.173.1.4 (Type A) Last updated Unknown
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 1 days, 08:24:04
6. Data rate: 20000 / 79995
7. Maximum data rate: 28156 / 91123
8. Noise margin: 9.9 / 9.0
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 11.9
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 11.9
11. Data sent/received: 250.4 MB / 1.6 GB
12. Broadband username: [email protected]
13. BT Wi-fi: No


Thanks for the help

Self-Install is now going into Phase 2 by Openreach. [1]

[1] http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefin...

So we have a few things showing such as...

6. Data rate: 20000 / 79995 (Sync speed)
7. Maximum data rate: 28156 / 91123 (Attainable)
8. Noise margin: 9.9 / 9.0
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 11.9
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 11.9

Not much you can really do with this but at least it's an improvement!

The rest is all to do with wireless stats..

2.4 GHz Wireless connections: Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 300 Mb/s)) 20/40 MHz, WPS enabled
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless security: WPA2
17. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel: 11
18. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID:
19. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections: Disabled
20. 2.4 GHz Wireless security: None
21. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel: 11
22. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID: BTWifi-with-FON
23. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections: Disabled
24. 2.4 GHz Wireless security: None
25. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel: 11
26. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID: Auto-BTWiFi
27. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections: Disabled
28. 2.4 GHz Wireless security: None
29. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel: 11
30. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID:
31. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections: Disabled
32. 2.4 GHz Wireless security: None
33. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel: 11

Same for 5GHz.

In reply to a post by omnius:

Any idea's about the power usage compared to the two box setup?

--

In real terms, BT say it will be more power efficient, as you'll only be powering the one device, but in practical terms, it means you'll get a plug socket back.
From false

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by letongue:

Looks quite nice as routers go, easy enough to set up, better than having a separate modem and router too.

From the images and videos online, it looks like a HH4 with a blue strip. Doesn't look as good with the blue strip, but I guess that's personal preference.

http://www.cable.co.uk/images/content/bt-infinity-ho...
http://www.techadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/345689...

Well, without trying to sound like a girl, it matches my colour scheme. Either way, it's better than the old TP-Link monstrosity I had...

Just so you can check, it will say in the manual/box/settings how much the HomeHub 5 uses. The rest are as followed...

HG612 - 5.6W
ECI - 8.6W
HomeHub 4 - 5W
HomeHub 3 - 5W

Technically around 12.1 it should be but it being BT I would imagine around the 13/14W mark.

Edited by deleted (Fri 18-Oct-13 01:15:18)

Going by memory of the correct equation (Watts = 12vx1.5A as shown on router base) I'm getting 18Watts.

If that is correct, I smell more false advertisement coming!

Current and power ratings, whilst linked are used for different things.

The 1.5A will refer to the maximum current required or the PSU rating. The power consumption will be that of a typical unit running continuously.. In normal operation there will be time when the consumption increases, such as start-up and the PSU will need to cope with that.

Will they still supply a separate modem - if requested - together with the HomeHub 5?

Had not seen that notice, but still talking of live testing in January

As installs are still engineer based then yes you will get the white modem option.

Once they move to PCP only, then you will NOT see the engineer in your home and should pay less for the install.

Nice i had not seen that before

3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.173.1.4 (Type A) Last updated 25/09/13
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 14 days, 11:01:34
6. Data rate: 19999 / 79995
7. Maximum data rate: 32440 / 94831
8. Noise margin: 15.3 / 9.7
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 8.0
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 8.0
11. Data sent/received: 1.5 GB / 3.4 GB

is the noise margin a bit high ?

In reply to a post by ryant704:

Self-Install is now going into Phase 2 by Openreach. [1]

[1] http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefin...

this bit interests me

All devices currently in the Openreach Modem Bank will be regression tested and CPs can expect the output of that Regression Testing to be emailed to their nominated contacts by Friday, 15 November 2013. CPs may start to undertake performance testing on the release within the PTF from Monday, 9 December 2013.

so openreach are approving the devices used by the CP's, rather than just the CP's rolling out devices with no openreach testing.

No.

The noise margin is based on your actual or capped speeds - 19999/79999 and indicate that you could get slightly more which is reflected in the Maximum rate.


When my connection had a 2Mbps upload the Margin was around about 27dB, with a Maximum Achievable of 26Mbps. When I moved to a 20Mbps upload the figure dropped to around 12dB with a 19998 sync and Maximum Achievable remaining at 26Mbps.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

so openreach are approving the devices used by the CP's, rather than just the CP's rolling out devices with no openreach testing.

SIN 498, Sections 2.4 and 3, and particularly Appendix A.

Your noise margin is high but it is nothing to worry about.

You're on 80/20Mbps product, you are current'y synced at 80/20Mbps. See

6. Data rate: 19999 / 79995

The noise margin is set to target of 6. If your noise margin is above 6 this means your line has the room to improve on speed. Your line is in a connection where it is being capped by your CP (Communication Provider, ISP) due to the product/service you purchased off them.

You can see what the estimate is for those margins here with number 7.

7. Maximum data rate: 32440 / 94831 This is known as your attainable rates, though if you start seeing these decrease it will be due to Crosstalk due to the increase of FTTC subscribers.

Ok thanks for the info ryant704 and MHC

A mate at work was given a hh5 by one of the bt repair men when they came to sort out why his infinity keep dropping out when it rained (turned out the wire went thro a tree!! anyways they replaced the drop wire after moving him to the next pole along) he was also given a new white modem to use which is smaller and thinner then the hg612, i havnt seen it but he also say's it only has 2 led's on the front. are bt using a third type of modem now for infinity?

But the new Hub 5 doesn't have a WAN port for the ethernet feed between it and the VDSL modem AFAIK. There is one, but this is for FTTP only, well according to the briefest of training I underwent.

Why would the Home Hub 5 care if an FTTC modem rather than FTTP ONT was connected to its Ethernet WAN port? Both present PPPoE (most ISPs, including BT Infinity) or DHCP (Sky and TalkTalk).

Don't shoot the messenger ! Just relaying what was said on the training.

That thought had occurred to me too. Maybe it is just to differentiate between the two services, for support maybe ??

I wonder what chipset is being used in the VDSL side of the HH5?

Lantiq VRX268 like the ECI modems.

In reply to a post by ryant704:

Your noise margin is high but it is nothing to worry about.

You're on 80/20Mbps product, you are current'y synced at 80/20Mbps. See

6. Data rate: 19999 / 79995

The noise margin is set to target of 6. If your noise margin is above 6 this means your line has the room to improve on speed. Your line is in a connection where it is being capped by your CP (Communication Provider, ISP) due to the product/service you purchased off them.

You can see what the estimate is for those margins here with number 7.

7. Maximum data rate: 32440 / 94831 This is known as your attainable rates, though if you start seeing these decrease it will be due to Crosstalk due to the increase of FTTC subscribers.

Many thanks for the info. For the record I am around 25 metres from the cabinet. I am on the Infinity 2 package, giving me a max 76/19.

As a guestimate, with information from maps showing neighbours speed test results and some local knowledge, I'd say that FTTC is only just enabled from the cab and there are still a good few properties to be switched on as such, in the local corner of Edinburgh. So I will keep an eye on the attainable and update.

Edited by deleted (Sat 19-Oct-13 23:25:25)

In reply to a post by MHC:

Current and power ratings, whilst linked are used for different things.

The 1.5A will refer to the maximum current required or the PSU rating. The power consumption will be that of a typical unit running continuously.. In normal operation there will be time when the consumption increases, such as start-up and the PSU will need to cope with that.

Ah, now the school physics comes flowing back. I did have a good look around t'internet and couldn't find any real figures.

Thanks.

In reply to a post by omnius:

A mate at work was given a hh5 by one of the bt repair men when they came to sort out why his infinity keep dropping out when it rained (turned out the wire went thro a tree!! anyways they replaced the drop wire after moving him to the next pole along) he was also given a new white modem to use which is smaller and thinner then the hg612, i havnt seen it but he also say's it only has 2 led's on the front. are bt using a third type of modem now for infinity?
[/quote

I just have the HH5, I wasn't given or offered the white modem. Only thing that changed was the faceplate.

Was he real Openreach, or a contractor? You did say earlier he was about to install the modem.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Was he real Openreach, or a contractor? You did say earlier he was about to install the modem.

He was Openreach, The engineer went into his bags and took out his computer and was going for what I assume is the white modem. I mentioned I had HH5 and he did look a tad confused. He had a quick read through the paperwork that arrived with the HH5 before installation.

Here's the latest stats.

6. Data rate: 20000 / 79995
7. Maximum data rate: 28139 / 91219
8. Noise margin: 9.9 / 9.0
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 11.9
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 11.9

Regarding wireless, I don't have any ac compatible devices so cannot comment on that. Other than that the wireless is perfect so far - on both frequencies.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But the new Hub 5 doesn't have a WAN port for the ethernet feed between it and the VDSL modem AFAIK. There is one, but this is for FTTP only, well according to the briefest of training I underwent.

it works for FTTC, as thats how I beta tested my hh5.

Doesn't that rule out those who (like me) want to use alternative routers??

I use a Netgear R6300, but if the Open Reach modem is no longer fitted separately then that would be out of the window for new users wouldn't it ??

That is the reason why separate modems and routers are preferred by some . You can always get a VDSL2 modem? Or bridge a cheap modem/router, which is what the Openreach ones are.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You can always get a VDSL2 modem?

What we really need is OpenReach to require ISPs supplying all-in-one devices to have a "modem only" mode, the same as Virgin Media did with their superhub.

Isn't it likely that an modem/routers will have that available? Just like all the ADSL routers I've heard of?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Isn't it likely that an modem/routers will have that available? Just like all the ADSL routers I've heard of?

Loads of ADSL routers don't have a bridge mode though, its a major issue for connecting ADSL lines to corporate firewalls and similar for remote offices when the ISP supplies a single IP only.

You might be thinking of DMZ mode, but this isn't remotely suitable.

Ok, right .

But no, I'm not thinking about DMZ. Whenever I try to read that up I end up totally baffled by what appears hideous complexity. Yet people talk about it as though it's as simple as changing a wireless security setting.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Ok, right .

But no, I'm not thinking about DMZ. Whenever I try to read that up I end up totally baffled by what appears hideous complexity. Yet people talk about it as though it's as simple as changing a wireless security setting.

DMZ mode is just a cheat to try and solve problems of old video protocols such as H.323 (think Netmeeting) that couldn't cope with the concept of NAT. It sends all information arriving at the WAN side to a single internal IP address (ie, port forwading all ports from 1 to 65535)

A true modem passes the public IP address to the device attached, passing through DHCP. Or if the connection requires PPPoE or PPPoA then the modem CAN handle the logon and pass the IP to the attached device using DHCP.

The old X-Modem from ADSLnation did this, and the tiny matchbox sided Speedtouch 515 (I have one somewhere) but nothing else does this.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

A true modem passes the public IP address to the device attached, passing through DHCP. Or if the connection requires PPPoE or PPPoA then the modem CAN handle the logon and pass the IP to the attached device using DHCP.

The old X-Modem from ADSLnation did this, and the tiny matchbox sided Speedtouch 515 (I have one somewhere) but nothing else does this.

"Terminate the PPP, pass on the address via short lease DHCP" is sometimes called PPP Half Bridge.

ZyXEL P660R-D1 (ADSL2+, AR7 chipset, costs around £30) has a poorly documented PPP Half Bridge mode that I believe is functional. It would certainly be my starting place trying to implement this setup. I used a P660R-D1 with my pfSense box before switching to FTTC, though, as I had a routed IP block, I used it in a routed IP setup rather than PPP Half Bridge.


Many ADSL connections will work with PPPoE, in which case another alternative is to set an ADSL modem or router in RFC 1483 mode and run PPPoE from an Ethernet WAN router. In this case, the VPI and VCI settings must be correct on the ADSL device. LLC-mux should work - I can't remember whether PPPoE VC-mux (which has slightly lower overheads) is supported on BT Wholesale.

Unfortunately, I don't have an ADSL line any more, so I can't run any experiments (I had thought of putting a cheap ADSL2+ ISP on our second line, but I can't justify the expense with the reliability of Zen FTTC and having contract mobile broadband on two networks amongst family members). I do still have a couple of P660R-D1s, though!

bridge mode isnt that complex, but I guess hw vendors feel why would someone buy their device to disable 95% of the functionality.

Is this ok for my HH5?

3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.173.1.4 (Type A) Last updated Unknown
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 09:47:52
6. Data rate: 14408 / 56100
7. Maximum data rate: 14577 / 55211
8. Noise margin: 6.1 / 5.8
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 21.3
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 20.4
11. Data sent/received: 556.1 MB / 1.8 GB
12. Broadband username: [email protected]

Looks fine from the Information you've posted...

The Noise Margin of 5.8 indicates the presence of noise on your connection which is something to keep your eye on.
I wonder if Routerstats is able to monitor the HH5?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

...
I wonder if Routerstats is able to monitor the HH5?

They're still a bit pricey on ebay for me to be able to justify getting one but, if they're locked down as tight as the HH3 (which seems likely), it'll need a dedicated option in RouterStatsHub....no plans to add it yet though!

John.

Don't think routerstats plays ball with any HH's other than 3. Since I made the switch (OK HH3 was a PITA) but never had a problem with HH4 other than minor disconnects (although they we're due to powercuts we have had as there been quite a few of them recently) if anything the power cuts have boosted my connection at times as this is what I was getting when I started way back in june:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2752041983.png

and took this with the HH5 a few seconds ago:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/3120049170.png

I will monitor if anything does start going funny but so far no problems.............

Is it possible to extract the info from the web page in the GUI on the Homehub5, or is the login going to be the problem?

IMO the only thing worth checking speedwise is the IP Profile. Obviously, monitoring the SNRM and the sync speed 24*7 is the other thing..

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Obviously, monitoring the SNRM and the sync speed 24*7 is the other thing..

I don't think the HH4 (and presumably HH5) has any real-time read out of the current SNRM value.

This thread is about the HH5. Where do you think the stats come from then?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

This thread is about the HH5. Where do you think the stats come from then?

Possibly from the support desk diagnostics page or whatever they call it. I'll have to check the HH4 again to see if those stats are there. I know the HH4 logs the SNRM in the event log at first connection, so I wonder if the HH5 stats for SNRM are static or update on every page refresh.

Given that one is showing 5.8dB I assume it's fallen back from the target at sync time.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Given that one is showing 5.8dB I assume it's fallen back from the target at sync time.

Quite possible.

Maybe someone who actually has one will confirm if the noise margin is fixed or changes?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Maybe someone who actually has one will confirm if the noise margin is fixed or changes?

Would be helpful, yeah.

just tried, and can confirm that noise margin, and max rate are dynamic.

5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 09:47:01
6. Data rate: 8263 / 41844
7. Maximum data rate: 8207 / 42553
8. Noise margin: 5.8 / 6.0
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 22.7
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 20.4

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 09:48:59
6. Data rate: 8263 / 41844
7. Maximum data rate: 8242 / 42724
8. Noise margin: 5.9 / 6.0
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 22.7
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 20.4

5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 10:00:15
6. Data rate: 8263 / 41844
7. Maximum data rate: 8199 / 42808
8. Noise margin: 5.8 / 6.0
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 22.7
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 20.4

happy to help John/vwlowen however I can...

edit, another set of stats, showing downstream margin stats are dynamic too
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 10:16:21
6. Data rate: 8263 / 41844
7. Maximum data rate: 8207 / 42601
8. Noise margin: 5.8 / 6.1
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 22.7
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 20.4

Edited by ggremlin (Sat 23-Nov-13 19:30:41)

Max rate varies because the noise margin is doing. The noise margin varies because the external noise varies - that's the whole point of it .

There are some odd changes in those stats you give though.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 23-Nov-13 20:12:33)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Max rate varies because the noise margin is doing. The noise margin varies because the external noise varies - that's the whole point of it .

There are some odd changes in those stats you give though.

no, the noise margin is derived from max rate and current rates. NOT the other way round

max rate changes due to current conditions. (including external noise/ crosstalk)
current rate is what was established and attainable on connection. (with a margin so its dosn't have to reconnect all the time)
noise margin is the -live- difference.

I would have thought the noise margin varies because the noise varies and the signal remains the same.
I also thought the max rate was some calculation based on the noise margin and varies also because the noise varies..

In reply to a post by ggremlin:

no, the noise margin is derived from max rate and current rates. NOT the other way round

The noise margin (SNRM) at connection time is a setting in the BRAS for the line. It is an imposed value and not dependent on the line conditions at the time.

From that point on it and the SNR can vary continually, unless SRA is in operation which seems for some HH5 users with updated modem firmware may be the case.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I would have thought the noise margin varies because the noise varies and the signal remains the same.

Exactly . However:-

I also thought the max rate was some calculation based on the noise margin and varies also because the noise varies..

It's certainly based on some esoteric calculation and varies, but I've yet to work out what and how.

As it is normally close to the actual connection speed it cannot be directly related to the noise margin, though on ADSLx lines with very high noise margin it is always much higher than the actual. It is also frequently below the actual sync even when the SNRM appears normal. It's almost as though it is determined using the BRAS SNRM value during what we see as the discovery stage on FTTC, but by the time the medley stage is completed it is history, retained and shown for diagnostic purposes.

But then on VDSL2 it changes, and not apparently in direct relationship to the noise margin .

At some point I shall have to get the latest unlocked HG612 firmware and stats program. It used to be fascinating to watch the Max figures. I think I have loads of the logs from before the OR firmware update. If so I should be able to provide some info for ggremlin. Bigger things than that on my mind though at the moment.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 23-Nov-13 23:29:11)

umm sort of, you got a bit confused.

The "target" noise margin is set dslam side. (can be overidden by modems in some cases as seen on adsl).

The actual noise margin does vary and is based on the actual snr and bitrate.

So eg. lets say a tone has 9 bits, each bit requires 3 db of snr. There is 32 snr, that means there is 5db of snrm on that tone, as 27db of snr is required to maintain the bitloading. So as the snr varies the snrm of course also varies. Most modems dont reveal the snr in the gui, so the end user will typically only have the snrm to go on.

As far as I can tell the modem guestimates the max sync rate based on the target snrm, existing sync speed, number of tones in use and spare noise margin.

No, I didn't get confused in the least, unless it was in my explanation to ggremlin, who is definitely wrong. I did only cover the essential error in his post, not attempt a full explanation.

Yes, I'm addressing the "averaged" SNRM over all the tones.

As I said, the Max rate is generally close to the actual. It is net of margin, not the gross before margin is applied to obtain actual.

My web page has explained since September 2009 how SNRM works. Improved in January 2010 and a few additions because of FTTC in 2013. Your single tone explanation doesn't seem particularly well written, seeing as the BRAS SNRM figure is the overall result required. Hence the widely varied loading of individual bins.

Re the Max rate, we are agreed it is a fluctuating figure. Your theory doesn't really add anything to my post, as certainly on VDSL2 its variation is far from closely linked to the overall SNRM fluctuation. IIRC it can even move in the opposite direction. But as I said before, I have more important things to do at the moment than to connect up and use a different machine to get back to the logs I have from Bald_Eagle's prog.

Question. Who had to pay for their hub's? Or did you get it free for extending contracts?

Mine was free, I'd only just re-joined BT after leaving Sky, so I signed up for 18 month contract and my Home Hub 5 was free (bar the postage).
Well pleased with it though, nice fast stable connection.

Just received my HH5 to replace my HH3.
I can only get it to work if I connect the Openreach modem.
If I set it up without the OR modem I just get a orange power light.

Am I missing something here or do I still need the OR modem?

Edited by logicblock (Mon 25-Nov-13 09:34:11)

hh5 does not need the openreach modem.
try plugging it in again, turn it on, and leave it for a couple of minutes

In reply to a post by logicblock:

Just received my HH5 to replace my HH3.
I can only get it to work if I connect the Openreach modem.
If I set it up without the OR modem I just get a orange power light.

Am I missing something here or do I still need the OR modem?

The HH5 takes quite some time to get up an running, its probably only a few minutes but it does feel like an age.

In reply to a post by NUTTER44444:

Question. Who had to pay for their hub's? Or did you get it free for extending contracts?

I was offered one free if i extended my contract but they said i would have to either lose my anytime calls or pay more for them as they could not extend my contract and just leave everything as it was, i was told this twice by separate BT operatives but i still don't believe it.

Anyway i bit the bullet and just bought the dam thing.

Hm well it looks like I was going to be charged £45 for one but it would appear that there's a credit on my account for it.................*SHRUGS*

All working now - it does take a while longer to start up than the HH3.
Thanks for your help

Update: I was a little worried as the BTW Speedtest was coming back with 55 Mbps, just checked again and its now 66.7 Mbps

Edited by logicblock (Mon 25-Nov-13 14:35:46)

£45 isn't too bad, the HH5 costs £129.00 at the BT Shop!

Just went through the Infinity upgrade process online and I was getting offered the HH5 free with £6.95 delivery.

In reply to a post by gomezz:

Just went through the Infinity upgrade process online and I was getting offered the HH5 free with £6.95 delivery.

Makes you wonder why the BT Shop sells it for so much when BT Broadband customers can get it much cheaper (not sure if it's locked to BT).

Works on Plusnet http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1196...

The special price is one of the benefits of using BT Broadband.

This depends on how many of the functions of a top shelf router Home hub 5 has. Most users will be happy with what it has to offer, as are most VM customers with Super Hub 2.

But, you are right. Those who want the full router experience could do with modem-only mode. I am surprised that BT, Sky etc have missed this. They could have learned from VM. Instead they are stuck with a set up with performance barely as good as SH2 and without the flexibility.

There are some odd changes in those stats you give though.

if you want odd

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 04:01:17
6. Data rate: 7441 / 41250
7. Maximum data rate: 7429 / 38776
8. Noise margin: 5.9 / 4.7
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 22.2
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 20.0

Those look fine. Illustrating exactly the point we were disagreeing about .

We are agreed that noise on the line fluctuates. Therefore so does SNR.

We don't see SNR, but if SNRM falls that is because SNR has fallen. If SNR falls, Max rate falls. Simples .

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 25-Nov-13 23:31:35)

Here's mine just for benchmark purposes:

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 1 days, 14:55:46
6. Data rate: 19999 / 79995
7. Maximum data rate: 25429 / 92626
8. Noise margin: 15.3 / 9.5
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 9.2
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 9.2

If I buy one, can I sell my old HH4 to my neighbour (also on BT Infinity but has HH3) do you need to input username settings etc?

In reply to a post by Youngy:

If I buy one, can I sell my old HH4 to my neighbour (also on BT Infinity but has HH3) do you need to input username settings etc?

You can sell it, yeah, the Hub's built-in user/pass is generic.

the hh5 has the generic bt (home) login as default, this can be changed if using it on another service provider, - even bt-business accounts require it to be changed!

Hi,

Are any of you getting disconnects on your HH5, which seem to relate to remote updates taking place? Admittedly I'm using this on plusnet (fttc), but wanted to see if others are getting this issue as well ? I already seem to have latest f/w running (but showing last update unknown).

09:00:44, 06 Dec. (59023.040000) CWMP: session completed successfully
09:00:44, 06 Dec. (59022.820000) CWMP: HTTP authentication success from https://pbthdm.bt.mo
09:00:39, 06 Dec. (59018.200000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
09:00:39, 06 Dec. (59018.200000) CWMP: Session start now. Event code(s): '4 VALUE CHANGE'
09:00:37, 06 Dec. (59015.610000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
09:00:37, 06 Dec. (59015.610000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.730000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.710000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.700000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.700000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.700000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
09:00:35, 06 Dec. (59014.390000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:35, 06 Dec. (59014.390000) CHAP authentication successful
09:00:34, 06 Dec. (59012.780000) CHAP Receive Challenge
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.090000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.090000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.070000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.060000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.060000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.580000) CHAP Receive Challenge
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.580000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.580000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.560000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.560000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.560000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.560000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.550000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:29, 06 Dec. (59007.970000) CWMP: session closed due to error: Could not resolve host
09:00:29, 06 Dec. (59007.950000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
09:00:29, 06 Dec. (59007.950000) CWMP: Session start now. Event code(s): '4 VALUE CHANGE'
09:00:29, 06 Dec. (59007.750000) CWMP: Initializing transaction for event code 4 VALUE CHANGE
09:00:22, 06 Dec. (59001.140000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

What beats me is why BT haven't learned from Virgin's experience and included modem-only mode in HH5.

Its my view BT are more detached from its users than VM are.

In other words they hide more information, generally think all users are complete newbs and dont listen to feedback as much.

Comparing the hh5 firmware to the superhub firmware only illustrates this. The hh5 is way more locked down than the superhub is.

Give it a year or so and we my start to see many complaints rise, we may not, on the the btcare forums most people do seem to use the homehub devices.

Bear in mind on the dsl platform, technical users can use a different isp such as plusnet, whilst on cable they all remain on VM so there is more of them with a bigger voice.

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 06-Dec-13 15:19:57)

How are you getting remote updates to an HH5 not on BT Retail's network I wonder!!!!

Or is it just TR-069 operating (ab)normally on your PlusNet connection? To me it looks to be outgoing not incoming.

it could be the hh5 expects signals at intervals to keep it activated and when they stop coming it gets turned off?

either that or its phoning home, even on a different isp.

In reply to a post by roughbeast:

What beats me is why BT haven't learned from Virgin's experience and included modem-only mode in HH5.

Best guess because at this time you still get an Openreach modem with BT Infinity. When they go PCP-only maybe they'll reconsider but for now if you want a modem mode you can just, well, use a modem.