Here are some VDSL Line Stats...

Seeing as I've haven't seen anything published, I thought I'd post my VDSL line stats for comment. btw, you can't get these from the BT supplied device, you need a device such as the Thomson TG789n to do this. I bought mine from ADSL24, after having some nightmares (a few weeks back) with my connection and wanting to see what was going on.

Uptime: 0 days, 22:23:27
DSL Type: ITU-T G.993.2
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 9,999 / 19,994
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/GB]: 0 00 / 2
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 3.2 / 9.2
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 0.7 / 0.1
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 9.1 / 6.1
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): 0F00TMMB3C61 / 0000----0000
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 5 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 4 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 636,661,366 / 14
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 5,531 / -
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 26,646 / 0

Download sync speed drops to around 15megs at busy times such as weekends.

btw, I am around 500m of road from the cabinet.
I am subscribed to a 40/10 meg service.

Any comments on the stats?
# Obviously, the data transferred looks wrong, down to the modem firmware I expect.
# Line attenuation looks very, very low.
# SNRs don't look very good to me.

Steve

Edited by deleted (Mon 31-Jan-11 13:05:40)

Lots of errors too

Whats the in property phone wiring like, does removing all the telephone wiring, i.e. lower half of master socket make a difference to the stats.

The actual sync speed goes down at busy times? Not just the throughput?

Don't forget the attenuation is measured from the cabinet, not the exchange. But wierd even so with the upstream being so different and higher.

Can you get details of the attenuation at the different freqencies? And I wonder where the upstream ones are in relation to the downstream.

Noise margins look fine to me. What worries you about them?

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 31-Jan-11 12:43:17)

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the reply.

I removed the phone connection from the master and rebooted the modem.
I got 9.1/10.3 dB.
I then plugged the phone connection back in and rebooted again.
I got 9.1/10.2 dB.
So whilst the SNR went up, that pretty much concludes it was only due to the reboot.
Phone wiring is all on CAT5 with RJ-45 LUAs in each room.
Output powers did not vary. Neither did sync speed.
Btw, there are no punched down extensions inside the master. So the VDSL was the only connection.

Best regards

Steve

Your upload looks nice!

>The actual sync speed goes down at busy times?
>Not just the throughput?
>
Yes. Confirmed with BT SpeedTester. The Download Profile changes.
Consequently the throughput also changes.

>Don't forget the attenuation is measured from the cabinet, not the exchange.
>
Yes. That is what the FTTC service is.

>But wierd even so with the upstream being so different and higher.
>
Upstream is likely to be higher as the upstream data runs on the lower frequencies of the link.
With a 10 meg uplink, the downloads are pushed much further up the frequency spectrum than with a 256k uplink.

>Can you get details of the attenuation at the different freqencies?
>
No facility for that on this router sadly.

>And I wonder where the upstream ones are in relation to the downstream.
>
See above.

>Noise margins look fine to me. What worries you about them?
>
6 dB is marginal. And I am only 500m of copper from the DSLAM. My sync drops in busy times to 15meg and I paid for 40 meg. If 15 is all I can reliably get, then fine, but I don't think things are quite right.

Cheers

Steve

I paid for 40 meg

you paid for a service that can go at up to 40M on lines capable of that. Price isn't a function of speed

If you read the whole sentence, you'll see I said I am happy with 15 Meg, if that is all my line can support. But that is not the purpose of this post.

This post is just meant to be some interesting reading, as there aren't many sets of line stats out there for VDSL just yet. I am hoping some people with some knowledge of VDSL might shed some light on the numbers, as they don't look like any ADSL figures I've ever had. E.g. When did you last see attenuation of under a decibel, with an SNR of less than 10?

Steve

P.S. Did you mean 'speed isn't a function of price' ?

Do you have a link for this router/modem?

I can't see it on their website and when I called them they seemed to know nothing about it?!?

Here it is...

https://adsl24.co.uk/store/ADSL-Modem-Routers/ADSL-W...

Cheers

Steve

Thanks mate!

Some of those stats, as others have said, are a little odd.

0.1dB attenuation for example is way to low. I wonder if the downstream power has lost the tens digit and when it compares Tx power and Rx power levels it sees 0.1 whereas it could be 10.7dB? And maybe the same on upstream - the received power is loosing a digit.

At 500m by road - add in distances between old and new cabinet, distance up pole, additional length due to catenary in drop wire, a couple of cable loops and your internal and you may get towards 550 m. Mine is 440m and even though I cannot see stats, I know my line could sync at around 47Mb (from the technicians test device) - my actual sync is 38717kbps with throughputs of 36000 or above. Your sync does look lower than I would have expected.

You mention problems initially - what sort of problems did you have?

Edited by MHC (Mon 31-Jan-11 14:27:47)

it is indeed interesting reading, thanks for posting it.

there's a Zyxel VDSL router on sale too, though one vendor is currently out of stock

hopefully its GUI provides more info or has less bugs !

In reply to a post by vdsl_steve:

>Can you get details of the attenuation at the different freqencies?
>
No facility for that on this router sadly.

Are you saying you've tried the normal CLI commands, like: xdsl debug bitloadinginfo
and they don't work?

Given usage tracking appears wrong, the router web interface may have other bugs.

Batboy has just pointed out a CLI for the device.
I'll try to post more stats shortly.

Had various problems...

Firsty a provisioning problem from ISP to BT, that caused a setup delay.
Then a BT backhaul problem that cut me off for a weekend.
Then a failed VDSL port in the street cabinet.
Then a subsequent 11meg connection for 5 weeks. I got told to leave the system alone while it was learning - i.e. no modem reboots etc.
A loss of patience, followed by a power cycle of the Huawei BT modem got it back to 17 megs.
Replacing with the Thomson got me almost 20 megs and the line stats you see now.

Previous to that I've had:
An open circuit on one of the wires in the pair to my house.

The exchange has had a roof leak which rained on the racks in the exchange. Once my line fuse had turned green and gone open circuit, BT replaced it.

We've even had the pikeys steal 2km of trunk cable from the exchange to the street cab using a pickup and a tow ball.

We've had it all round here

Steve

Can you see if you can get the basic stats to start with and see if they match those on the GUI. One old Thomson/Speedtouch that I had, reported differently through GUI and CLI !

Nice one BatBoy,

I didn't realise that this router had a CLI.
Let me know if there are any other useful things to be gleaned from the CLI.

Here is the 'bitloadinginfo'

Tone : # Bits per tone
0 : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 6 7
10 : 8 9 10 11 11 11 11 11 11 11
20 : 12 12 12 12 12 12 11 11 11 11
30 : 11 11 10 9 9 9 9 9 9 7
40 : 9 9 9 9 9 8 9 9 9 9
50 : 9 9 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
60 : 8 8 8 8 7 7 6 7 7 8
70 : 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7
80 : 7 7 7 6 7 6 6 6 6 6
90 : 6 5 5 5 4 3 3 0 0 3
100 : 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
110 : 4 4 2 4 1 3 2 2 0 2
120 : 2 1 3 2 1 0 1 1 0 0
130 : 0 1 2 1 2 0 2 1 2 2
140 : 2 1 2 1 1 0 0 0 1 1
150 : 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0
160 : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
170 : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
180 : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
190 : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 1
200 : 0 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 0 1
210 : 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 1 1 0
220 : 0 0 1 2 4 5 5 6 7 8
230 : 8 7 9 9 9 7 9 9 10 11
240 : 11 11 10 10 10 10 10 8 7 4
250 : 2 7 7 8 3 9

That's good news. You might even get Routerstats to work...

Anyway, a Thompson CLI manual is http://www.technicolorbroadbandpartner.com/getfile.p...

In reply to a post by vdsl_steve:

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 5 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 4 / 0

I hope they occurred during setup. That seems pretty poor if it's the daily average.

No, that's with no fiddling at all.
My modem is in the loft, so it really has lost signal all by itself!

'twas in a day
Uptime: 0 days, 22:23:27

That's lots of errors, for less than a day.

It's not reporting the attenuation correctly.

If you are about 500m away, then that's a poor downstream sync rate.

SNR looks fine to me.

Too many drops in such a short time. Mine's been up for 6+ days ( I turned it off myself), and before that 20+ days, with a full 40000 and 10000 down and sync.

So, all in all, not very impressed. Later on you mention that there are no wires connected to the faceplate of the NTE, but you have extensions ??? If so, it's been installed incorrectly, and this needs to be addressed.

Whats the in property phone wiring like, does removing all the telephone wiring, i.e. lower half of master socket make a difference to the stats.

I thought the new faceplate supplies the rest of the house wiring via a filter, so you can only connect the modem at the master socket (and using the test socket won't make much of a difference?)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Later on you mention that there are no wires connected to the faceplate of the NTE, but you have extensions ??? If so, it's been installed incorrectly, and this needs to be addressed.

I just mentioned that there were no extensions punched down inside the master socket. You can get that sometimes, depending on the faceplate. Wiring is installed correctly and al extensions run through the socket in the front of the master.

Cheers

Steve

BitLoadInfo
I have posted the bitloadinfo. Are there any experts out there who can interpret it?
It appears there is a chunk of central spectrum with all zeroes in it. Is that normal? If not, maybe I can narrow down the source of the interference based on its frequency.

CLI equivalent of Web GUI Stats
Also I think you guys are right, the web GUI stats look very screwey. I'll happily post the stats from the CLI. Does anyone know the command to pull back the equivalent stats via the CLI? I've had a fair look through the CLI PDF, but can't see anything relevant.

Cheers

Steve

I just mentioned that there were no extensions punched down inside the master socket. You can get that sometimes, depending on the faceplate. Wiring is installed correctly and al extensions run through the socket in the front of the master.

Can you be more specific please?

As it is all CAT5 one assumes it is a DIY job, and what you say seems very strange.

What socket in front of the master? Do you mean the main faceplate socket, if so how do multiple extensions get through the one socket, or do you mean a socket wired in between the incoming and the master?

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 31-Jan-11 21:05:51)

try xdsl info expand=enabled

This isn't relevant to the thread. As I said, I AM NOT using any punchdowns and all phones plug in through the front of the master socket. I really can't make it clearer than that!

But have a look here if you want to learn about master faceplates with punchdowns on the back... Read the intro tab and then look at the tech specs tab on that site.

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xtespec.php

Cheers

Steve

Thanks BatBoy.
Here are the stats.
Unfortunately, the CLI says the same as the GUI for attenuation etc.

Cheers

Steve

{Administrator}=>xdsl info expand=enabled
Physical Layer Statistics:

Modem state: up
Up time (Days hh:mm:ss): 0 days, 1:33:56
xDSL Standard: ITU-T G.993.2
xDSL Annex: Annex A
Channel Mode: Interleaved

Number of reset: 0

Chipset Vendor info (G.994.1): Local Remote
Country code: B500 B500
ID: BDCM BDCM
Specific: 0000 A188

System Vendor info (showtime): Local Remote
Country code: 0F00 0000
ID: TMMB ----
Specific: 3C61 0000

Bearers generic info DS US
Payload rate [Kbps]: 18271 9999
Attenuation [dB]: 0.0 0.7
Margins [dB]: 6.8 9.2
Output power [dBm]: 9.1 3.2

Number of bearers: 1
Bearer 0 DS US
INP [DMT symbols]: 3.00 0.00
Delay [ms]: 8.00 0.00
Depth []: 0 0.00
R: 0 0

G.997.1 Statistics (Current):

Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 0
Loss of frame (LOF): 0
Loss of power (LPR): 0

Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 46

Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 137 N/A
FEC: 103728590 17

ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 1025 N/A

G.997.1 Statistics (last 15 minutes):

Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 0
Loss of frame (LOF): 0
Loss of power (LPR): 0

Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 3

Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 137 N/A
FEC: 103728590 17

ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 1025 N/A

G.997.1 Statistics (last 24 hours):

Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 0
Loss of frame (LOF): 0
Loss of power (LPR): 0

Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 46

Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 137 N/A
FEC: 103728590 17

ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 1025 N/A

{Administrator}=>

I have just ordered one of these routers...... £150 to check your stats....GREAT thinking BT!! I have 2 FTTC lines and one is not synching at the full 40mbps, when it should be more than capable of it! I'll let you know how i get on, and post stats........ In a straight line it�s less than 200m worse case....... I saw when it was installed over 16dB SNRM at full 40mbps synch, so i think its BT's DLM ....which apparently is a black art....and if you synch over 13mbps..... BT won't know your BRAS profile because apparently they are all stuck at 13mbps!!!! Fills you with confidence doesn't it?

I was going to comment on that dip into the bit loading ... It seems to be quite wide. I believe the frequency is 4.3125khz / tone. I may be wrong but I seem to recall that number.

No difference in reported attenuation and power levels from GUI to CLI.

There is definitely something amiss with it. Can yo email Technicolor directly? and ask for their comments?

It shouldn't do, but always worth checking and while it should have been checked at install time, a star wire config can be missed sometimes

In reply to a post by vdsl_steve:

...
As I said, I AM NOT using any punchdowns and all phones plug in through the front of the master socket. I really can't make it clearer than that!

But have a look here if you want to learn about master faceplates with punchdowns on the back... Read the intro tab and then look at the tech specs tab on that site.

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xtespec.php

Cheers

Steve

OK clever boy, I accept I must be utterly beneath contempt in the intellectual stakes, but I don't see how the ADSL Nation faceplate, with which I am fully acquainted as I have one, allows you to connect all the extensions through the single socket in the front of the master, unless you are using (multiple) splitter(s).

It has white filtered and blue un-filtered connections on the back of it, all of which are punch-down IDC.

Sorry to be so dumb, I'm obviously completely misunderstanding something.

This isn't relevant to the thread.

In view of my description of the XTE-2005, it seems to me it could be highly relevant. But bullies are always right.

he'll have the Openreach VDSL SSFP with an RJ45 at the top for the modem and a BT socket in the middle for the phones. The OP appears to be plugged in as you say either via a 2-or-more-way splitter or with a daisy chain of sockets via a plug in connection.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

he'll have the Openreach VDSL SSFP with an RJ45 at the top for the modem and a BT socket in the middle for the phones. The OP appears to be plugged in as you say either via a 2-or-more-way splitter or with a daisy chain of sockets via a plug in connection.

That's the sort of setup I envisage, and although the NTE5 phone socket itself should therefore, I believe, be pre-filtered(?), I feel that setup is inherently unsafe.

Quite what an XTE-2005 has to do with it is unclear, unless just to prove I'm an idiot by talking about something that isn't relevant.

the NTE5 phone socket itself should therefore, I believe, be pre-filtered(?), I feel that setup is inherently unsafe.

the VDSL faceplate is a bit like an iplate it all goes behind the orginal detachable bit so yes it's all pre-filtered.

Not sure why you regard it as unsafe - trip hazard ?

I think the OP was trying to clarify that there were no wired in extensions by illustrating the back of a faceplate, perhaps. He's not to know (without research) how much you or anyone else understands. Commenting on the basis of zero understanding is a growth industry on the internet, esp Twitter

In reply to a post by vdsl_steve:

Thanks BatBoy.
Here are the stats.
Unfortunately, the CLI says the same as the GUI for attenuation etc.

Cheers

Steve

Excellent news, I'm glad that the Speedtouch interface works.


Would it be possible to post some photos of the master socket, phone and modem connections?

Looks like you have some sort of cabling problem.

I thought the new faceplate supplies the rest of the house wiring via a filter, so you can only connect the modem at the master socket

me too. However if the filter has failed (not exactly unknown) then disconnecting the extensions could be illuminating.

I don't know if the VDSL faceplate presents a new filtered test socket in the style of an iPlate - anyone ?

VDSL socketry means that extensions should all be filtered.

Here is the BUT (a) if its all working perfectly and components can fail early in life in faceplates (b) if lots of phones and extensions then this may be affecting electrical characteristics of the line, a faceplate is not an opto isolation.

VDSL is also heading towards an area where I am not sure whether some HomePlugs may have an affect, watching to see what happens in terms of post. The RF world is great in theory, but a lot of it is emperical experience.

VDSL socketry means that extensions should all be filtered.

but is the visible test socket filtered ?

A couple of generail points about the VDSL filter faceplate.
This faceplate is built upon the I-Plate design and you are correct in that the socket exposed when the lower half is removed is filtered, so cannot supply BB.
It is quite possible (I have not taken one apart so I do not know for sure) that in the case of this faceplate, the ring line is looped through from the master socket, as in the case of an I-Plate, and not produced after the filter as with all other filter faceplates. This could be a cost saving excercise (not having to provide an additional capacitor)
The VDSL faceplate is no better than a conventional filter faceplate, but is easy to fit as no wires have to be disconnected.
My advice would be to replace it with a conventional filter faceplate.

Edited by deleted (Tue 01-Feb-11 10:15:41)

Not sure why you regard it as unsafe - trip hazard ?

Mainly the physical instability of the connections between the splitters, or even that of just a single splitter. They are often dodgy.

One also has to wonder about the possibility of T2/T5 switch-overs or even split pairs in a DIY setup.

Reading other posts since, it looks as though others also have doubts about the setup. Though maybe the OP considers all BT engineers are fools.

The setup is standard and completely ok.
In my original post, in order to try to clarify that there wasn't any dodgy wiring, I said that there were no punched down connection within the master. But people seem fixated on this. It was meant as extra information to try to minimise extra questions because I hadn't been clear in the first place. For some reason it is having the opposite effect.
The master socket has a standard BT VDSL faceplate, fitted by a well clued up BT engineer, who showed me my 28meg sync speed on his Fluke (I think it was). The modem is plugged in the RJ-11 socket. The phones are plugged in the phone socket, except when someone has asked me to unplug them for a test.
If anyone is being bullied, I would say it was me.

>Though maybe the OP considers all BT engineers are fools.
>
Not sure where you got that from. Chill out!

Steve

Edited by deleted (Thu 03-Feb-11 11:00:32)

Thanks for that.
It could be useful. I'll wait to see if anyone clarifies.
Then I'll go looking for rogue microwave ovens!

Thanks for your help so far.
There's no cabling problem: Unmolested BT master RJ11 via 1m lead straight into modem. Phones also through front of master through phone socket. No other sockets in the house.
Though I do think I need to get some newer firmware onto the modem, as the stats are very wrong.
Speeds were very similar on Huawei, so I don't think the modem is the speed problem either.
Cheers
Steve

See if your firmware behaves any better.
I believe 8.4.2 is available, though I haven't tried reflashing the device yet.
Steve

Homeplugs?

You might be onto something there.
I do have some IP CCTV that hangs of some homeplugs.

Thank you Andrew.

That is a very good area to rule out.
I'll do some tests tonight.

Steve

There is no star wiring.
We gutted the house when we moved in & completely re-wired.
The reason the master is in the loft is that is where the BT cable enters the house.
The incoming cable is immediately terminated on the master.
No other wires enter or exit the back box of the master.
They only exit through the faceplate's two front sockets.
We have several phone extensions in the house, but they are split after the phone signal exits the front of the master.
The modem is plugged into the RJ-11 via an approx 1m cable.
All above board and done the right way, and I don't think I could simplify the wiring further.

I keep re-reading my post, and I still can't understand why people keep asking about my wiring. Can anyone point out what I said that wasn't clear. Did I use the wrong term for something?... or something?

Cheers

Steve

Yes Phil,

Spot on

Steve.

The faceplate supplied for VDSL by BT includes the filter as it has two sockets on the front. It is not 'unsafe'. It is the standard setup.

I was stressing that I _didn't_ use any sort of faceplate with punchdowns inside - so highlighting that my setup was very simple.

What I said _was_ relevant, as I had mentioned punchdowns (i.e. not using them) in my earlier description and it had caused confusion.

My link showed an example of what I was talking about and was meant to clarify, so we could move on.

>Not sure why you regard it as unsafe - trip hazard ?
>
It's more of a crawl hazard, as it's in my loft

In reply to a post by vdsl_steve:

I keep re-reading my post, and I still can't understand why people keep asking about my wiring. Can anyone point out what I said that wasn't clear. Did I use the wrong term for something?... or something?

Because your stats seem to indicate you're losing SNR Margin, which could be due to a wiring problem.

How far away from the master socket is the modem? Is it right next to it?
How does the modem connect to the master?

Any chance of some pictures?

Turn off everything in the house - all lights, central heating, hi-fi, microwave, homeplugs, &c &c.

Power up just modem and route and connect you PC - preferable a laptop on battery power. If you need to see what is happening or where you are, use a torch!

Get the bitloading graph and see how it looks and if you still have the dip then the problem is outside.

Turn on two or three items and then resync and see what the graph looks like - turn the items off and try some more. Eventually you will find a set which causes the dip so you then need to try those individually.

It can be slow and laborious but you do need to locate the problem.

Because many a time people claim to have tested - and then finally a photo appears and what they call the master socket is far from being that socket.

In short it is just the usual questioning covering the most common issues.

Modem is 30cm from master socket, connected by 1m long RJ-11 to RJ-11, supplied with modem.

I'll give that a go tonight.

I've been down this road before, having replaced some 12v downlighter HF transformers with a 50Hz toroidal one. This was when half my incoming pair had gone open circuit a while back. At that time, my connection was so flakey that the front door PIR turning on the outside light would disconnect my internet. But as I said, that was due to another BT fault which they fixed (when I was on ADSL, not VDSL).

I'll flip all but one MCBs and go from there.

Steve

I tested the homeplug theory, but that sadly wasn't it the big hole in the bit loading info was still there. I'll get more drastic tonight!

Cheers

Steve

In reply to a post by vdsl_steve:

Modem is 30cm from master socket, connected by 1m long RJ-11 to RJ-11, supplied with modem.

I think Belkin make a shielded RJ11 cable...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by vdsl_steve:

Modem is 30cm from master socket, connected by 1m long RJ-11 to RJ-11, supplied with modem.

I think Belkin make a shielded RJ11 cable...

although I note the connection should be made with RJ12

why use RJ12 ? two more unused wires.

Why shielded? A twisted pair cable would be adequate in most cases.

Mine are made from 2 pair Cat5e and RJ12s.

The last Belkin shielded cable with RJ11/12 was about £10 for 1.5 metres

In reply to a post by MHC:

Why shielded? A twisted pair cable would be adequate in most cases.

Mine are made from 2 pair Cat5e and RJ12s.

The last Belkin shielded cable with RJ11/12 was about £10 for 1.5 metres

Given he may have a noise problem, for some reason he's losing bit-loading, might as well change everything as much as possible to narrow down the problem. What's a few quid when you've already replaced the VDSL modem?

Using a screened cable if you haven't got a proper signal earth is a bit iffy anyway.

You've beaten me with that comment, although it should have been directed at BB!

I thought I had... put it down to a caffeine deficiency

I don't think it needs an earth. I think that's a drain wire in cases where you're screening HV cables and dangerous surface voltages build up on the screening - in aircraft for example.

In reply to a post by griff_90:

Thanks mate!

Did you find it? Using that link now doesn't have it, and searching for VDSL or VDSL2+ doesn't either.

Hi Steve,

Mine arrived today...has 8.4.1..... the actual router as a "router" is RUBBISH!!! I can't even find where to change the IP address!! could just be me. Or change the MTU of the lan or wan! It also gives me a slightly lower sync than the BT modem (well IP profile..... as that is all i can check! with that modem

Anyway.... I knew from when my lines were installed the attn and snrm... mine shows 0.3u/s attn and its 3 and 0.7d/s and it was 7.0.... but from your stats i would say yours is in the 10's as your upstream is 0.7 (or 7 as a guess) Its looks like a decimal point error? Still if yours is in the 10's dosen't explain the poor sync!

Have you tried doing a line test on BT's website?

Anyway i hope you get to the bottom of it..... i know just how frustrating it can be!! Not made any easier with BT/Openreach not letting you see the stats!

Anyway its served its purpose i found out what is wrong with my IDnet line( I thought is was DLM bumping up my SNRM to 15dB or more.... it has actually lost 10dB of SNRM! so probably a line fault. My BT Infinity line still has its 15-16dB of SNRM at full synch.

What i did notice though is you get a much better upload throughput with this router! nearly a whole Mbps!

But if i can't change the routers IP address it could be going back as i have 2 networks joined via 2 routers on different subnets ....... gives nice speeds on multiple threaded downloads..... Best i have got is 9.1MB/s (you will need 2 nic's with static IP's and defined DNS Servers and also the metric set to the same (i use 1 for both on mine and it kind of load balances in a fashion!)

In reply to a post by Trolltamer:

But if i can't change the routers IP address it could be going back

It's under home network -> interfaces->local network ->configure

Does anyone know if this router here is suitable for FTTC? My connection has been playing up for the last week or so and would like to see some stats to see if I can see where the problem is coming from.

that's what it's for, can't comment if it'll work with the BT service out of the box - find a UK retailer and ask them ? or one with a 14 day return policy perhaps.

Cheers, will see if I can find anyone who has got it in stock first.

http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index.pl?ori... out of stock due Feb 15th

Cheers!

sync speed on his Fluke (I think it was).

ahem, JDSU or EXFO.

Hi Vdsl_steve,

I was just wondering how easy you found it to setup the device?

There are a few other devices that are available but I'd rather go for one that has been tested. How are you finding it so far?

I don't remember seeing it..... but i will look again, thanks very much.

That link the OP gave redirects to a page that doesn't have this router. Within "compstore" nor "store". How did you find it?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by MHC:

Why shielded? A twisted pair cable would be adequate in most cases.

Mine are made from 2 pair Cat5e and RJ12s.

The last Belkin shielded cable with RJ11/12 was about £10 for 1.5 metres

Given he may have a noise problem, for some reason he's losing bit-loading, might as well change everything as much as possible to narrow down the problem. What's a few quid when you've already replaced the VDSL modem?

In view of the expectation by systemx in this thread, and the mini-conversation between RandomJointer and Zarjaz in this thread, it seems quite likely that if the ring wires in any of those cat5 extensions are connected then there is a major problem there.

If the cat5s are just T2 and T5 then fine. As long as the possibility I raised before of cross-overs has been eliminated by the OP. He hasn't said so.

But then - what do I know .

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 06-Feb-11 09:11:31)

I feel I should say again that I have not look inside a new VDSL faceplate yet so what I said is just an educated guess, However If I were going to use the I-Plate as a basis for a filter faceplate, then I would leave the ring line looped through via the filter choke as it is there already.
In the case of the OP's master, I fully understand that he has his extensions run from the faceplate phone socket, but he may be using a normal telephone wire with a bt plug crimpted on, and this would have a ring line in it. As the master socket is in the loft and therefore high up it would/may be more prone to RF interferance. If he has made his own connection with the ring line left out at the BT plug end then fine.

Certainly a normal filter faceplate would address any such problems and is worth a try.

In reply to a post by systemx:

I feel I should say again that I have not look inside a new VDSL faceplate yet so what I said is just an educated guess

I understood. I didn't read into it more than you intended.

But because we have finally established that plug-in extensions are in use, the topic about which the OP got so strangely irate about me trying to find out, I was just re-raising the issue in case you are right, as it seems to have been ignored.

However If I were going to use the I-Plate as a basis for a filter faceplate, then I would leave the ring line looped through via the filter choke as it is there already.
In the case of the OP's master, I fully understand that he has his extensions run from the faceplate phone socket, but he may be using a normal telephone wire with a bt plug crimpted on, and this would have a ring line in it. As the master socket is in the loft and therefore high up it would/may be more prone to RF interferance. If he has made his own connection with the ring line left out at the BT plug end then fine.

He does say it is Cat5, and given the location I suspect a DIY job. Therefore quite possibly the ring wire is not connected. It depends on whether its detrimental quality was known about by whoever did it, or whether they just followed the standard spec BT connections.

Certainly a normal filter faceplate would address any such problems and is worth a try.

Exactly. I also suspect he has an ADSL Nation one now unused.

Interesting to know from you and the others that the VDSL faceplate isn't anything basically different from the normal BT ADSL faceplate. Farce!

The reason for the new faceplate is because it can be fitted without disconnecting any exsisting wiring.
Lets leep forward a bit to a FTTC "wires only" product, where Openreach do the cab end and leave the end user to do their instalation. It makes it easy for the end user to fit a filter faceplate, and easy for a company like Sky who already have installers to get a quick 10 min course on how to fit one and avoids all the problems which may occure if extension wires are disconnected.

In reply to a post by systemx:

The reason for the new faceplate is because it can be fitted without disconnecting any exsisting wiring.
Lets leep forward a bit to a FTTC "wires only" product, where Openreach do the cab end and leave the end user to do their instalation. It makes it easy for the end user to fit a filter faceplate, and easy for a company like Sky who already have installers to get a quick 10 min course on how to fit one and avoids all the problems which may occure if extension wires are disconnected.

Very good points.

Post deleted by maniac886

Right you are

Yes, it looks like they have removed it from sale.
Or maybe they just ran out of the batch they had and aren't getting any more.

Cheers

Steve

I don't think screening the final 30cm of the 500m run from the cabinet is going to make a lot of difference!

Thanks for the ideas on the faceplates.
You are right, I do have a spare (supposedly high grade) adsl nation faceplate.
The BT engineer removed it as part of the standard install and replaced it with a BT one.

My phone extensions use the ringer circuit in the master. I use secondary LAUs with my RJ-45 cabling. The only bit of home made kit for the phone cabling is a BT to BT plug cable to get the phone signal into the patch panel via a LAU. But this doesn't really matter, as my line stats don't change if I disconnect my phones at the BT socket on the front of the master. With only my modem connected to the master, the problem is still there.

I will try my ADSL Nation faceplate. Maybe I'll get a little more speed, but I doubt it will fix the interference I have on my line.

Cheers

Steve

It works with IDNet, though I couldn't say if it would work with BT direct, though I expect it probably would.

It's a pretty rubbish router though. The stats it reports are close to useless. I posted them on this forum as I thought they looked a little wierd. Well, they look wierd because they are wrong!

I upgraded the firmware to 8.4.2. That hasn't fixed the stats, though it does seem to have reduced the random rebooting. Before upgrading the firmware, the longest it stayed up was 11 hours!

Cheers

Steve

Well, I tried the 'cut the power' test and it did not improve the stats.
I turned off all the lights.
Removed all HomePlugs.
Turned off all DECT phones.
Turned off all WiFi.
Laptop on battery power, so no SMPS.
I left one 240v filament lamp on to do the job.
No change to the stats.

So I think I can pretty much conclude that the noise on the line is coming from outside my house. So I think that's it really. Not much can be done to improve the connection. Hopefully my wire will fail completely within a couple of years and they'll put me on some newer copper.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

Steve

What about the CLI stats? Should be:

xdsl info expand=enabled

Or just use "menu".

The router is available from DSL Shop:
http://www.technicolor.dslshop.co.uk/789_datasheet.a...

Cheers,

I am not with BT either, I am with Aquiss. If the stats that it is reporting are not correct then I may look elsewhere because I won't be able to find out the source of my problem. Thanks for reporting back.

Ta , but .

Maybe you could set up an advertising company with that track record !

... I will try my ADSL Nation faceplate. Maybe I'll get a little more speed, but I doubt it will fix the interference I have on my line.

Cheers

It may add a tiny bit of speed, but down at the 6Mbps level on ADSL2/2+ it lost a little compared to several dangly filters. Also gained a little on others. (I have 10 of the things). By a little, I mean a consistent 100-150kbps, but what effect there could be at your speeds I have no idea.

The important difference between a BT ADSL filtered faceplate and an ADSL Nation XTE-2005 is that the XTE-2005 filters the ring wire on all connections, except perhaps the A/B terminals. (Don't know on that bit). The BT one does not. On the other hand, the primary purpose of the iPlate is to filter the ring wire.

Hence the thoughts by systemx as to what the BT VDSL faceplate does in relation to the ring wire. Only taking one apart will answer that question.

But I take your point that disconnecting the extensions makes no difference. Equally, remember my point as it may be relevant in the future.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

If the cat5s are just T2 and T5 then fine. As long as the possibility I raised before of cross-overs has been eliminated by the OP. He hasn't said so.

But then - what do I know .

It would probably not work as the pins used on the RJ11/RJ12 will normally be 3 and 4. Even if teh others were connected they are unlikely to cause any problems as there will be no connection at teh NTE socket.

Hi Steve,

Could you post the link for the 8.4.2 firmware please? As mine rebooted after 1hr!!! so its back in the box as we speak! I've never really been a fan of thomson routers...... i'm more of a Netgear fan....... the GUI is so much clearer and much easier to navigate on Netgear routers!

I think all that is wrong with the stats is a decimal point error!! I know mine had 7dB attn down and 3dB up and mine shows 0.7 and 0.3.... yours is more confusing as your line looks to be in double digits.... so it could be 10 or 19dB.

If it becomes stable with the new firmware..... and i can get to change the IP address...... i'll probabbly use mine till a better router is on offer just for the higher upstream throuhput.

For reference...... it works with IDnet and BT Infinity.... so i would say it works with all FTTC connections through BTW!

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If the cat5s are just T2 and T5 then fine. As long as the possibility I raised before of cross-overs has been eliminated by the OP. He hasn't said so.

But then - what do I know .

It would probably not work as the pins used on the RJ11/RJ12 will normally be 3 and 4. Even if teh others were connected they are unlikely to cause any problems as there will be no connection at teh NTE socket.

Given he may have a noise problem, for some reason he's losing bit-loading, might as well change everything as much as possible to narrow down eht problem. What's a few quid when you've already replaced eht VDSL modem?

The important difference between a BT ADSL filtered faceplate and an ADSL Nation XTE-2005 is that the XTE-2005 filters the ring wire on all connections, except perhaps the A/B terminals.

You lost me a bit there. There is no ring wire on the A/B terminals, because it would be C.

All filters that meet the relevant SIN requirements, including the BT filtered faceplate, recreate the ring wire after the filter with a capacitor. They don't really filter the ring wire so much as make a new one.

It won't but a twisted pair might ... the line will already be twisted pair and if there is a noisy PSU close by that last short length may have been a weak spot.

On an long ADSLmax line, I recently changed te flat filter to modem cable with twisted pair and achieved a 10% improvement.

At least you know that you are not the cause ... Once outside trying to track it down can be interesting.