Very Interesting Document Re: FTTC Cabs

Hi All,

For those anticipating the upgrade of their exchange, you might want to take a look at this link.

There is one zip file here that contains an excel document of all of the postcode locations of every street cabinet in the UK, it also says which cabinets are going to be FTTC enabled, you can cross reference against your own postcode.

It might be removed soon as it doesn't look like a public document.

Be warned its a big document 50MB in size.

Cheers

Wholesale Fibre to the cabinet Rollout

I presume you managed to get a copy?

The page no longer shows a zip file of 50MB in size.

I just downloaded, (since your post), what appears to be the file - a zipped csv. 4.4MB, 47MB unzipped. PCP-PostCode report 13042011.

Clicked on it and it looks OK except OpenOffice CALC gave up at 65536 rows , which is still in the middle of Belfast City. Not a lot of use for checking whether it is right for my postcode in Stockport.

I don't fancy trying it with Wordpad or Notepad!

It is still there just checked.

Its 803315 rows in total, you are going to need Excel 2007 or later or something that can display that many rows.

Cheers,

Matt

Am I being stupid? Probably. What does 'Status: RFS' means? Ready For Service? Ruddy Fibre Stinks? It relates to the cabinet in my road.

In reply to a post by mkel78:

contains an excel document of all of the postcode locations of every street cabinet in the UK

That's not quite correct. It appears to only be showing current enabled or sheduled areas only from what I can see.

I'm not in a position to know how many cabs there are in the UK but a document containing 808000 rows kind of made me think it was. Sorry for the misinformation.

Never the less its a useful document.

The biggest issue I've had is finding anywhere in a FTTC enabled town that can have FTTC so this is interesting

This is obvous enough - RFS (Ready for service?) at these cabs

RFS 1 ALTON THATN
RFS 2 ALTON THATN
RFS 3 ALTON THATN
RFS 4 ALTON THATN
RFS 6 ALTON THATN
RFS 7 ALTON THATN
RFS 8 ALTON THATN
RFS 9 ALTON THATN
RFS 11 ALTON THATN
RFS 12 ALTON THATN
RFS 13 ALTON THATN
RFS 14 ALTON THATN
RFS 18 ALTON THATN
RFS 19 ALTON THATN
RFS 20 ALTON THATN
RFS 21 ALTON THATN
RFS 23 ALTON THATN
RFS 24 ALTON THATN
RFS 27 ALTON THATN
RFS 28 ALTON THATN
RFS 29 ALTON THATN
RFS 30 ALTON THATN

So I presume that some percentage of the people served by these cabs, who are near enough to them, might be able to get a FTTC service.

How do I interpret this (this is the nearby location I've been waiting for since the exchange was, er, "enabled" in 09/2010 as I need somewhere with broadband to work out of)

ALTON GU34 2PP
THATN p26
% LInes 90.47
Uplift 2.38

No phase, no deployed date, no availability

Does it mean 90% of the lines at that postcode can have a FTTC service? Availability checker says no for that postcode and also for the specific address. When it's working it does, anyway

It may well be fed directly from the exchange (it's only 525m away) so no FTTC possible, but it's impossible to know as all the wiring is underground.

Or is it possible to know... basically, does this document and the above shed any light on when FTTC is coming, as I look at it, it doesn't look promising

I have been trying to interpret the document as well.

Are you looking at the document with 808000 + records? (Postcode to Cabinet mapping April 2011 Update)

Freeze the panes for the headers it starts to make more sense.

There is a column called phase.

Mine is 7B not being able to match it to any date but it is the highest number so it will be a long way off!!

That's the one.

As I look at it, I'm guessing all the locations I'm trying are predominantly business addresses (as I want an office) and I'm guessing that all the locations I'm trying are served by cabs which are the "missing numbers" in that RFS cab list.

An overhead map would be very interesting showing which bits have been done and which ones haven't, but that would need postcode to cab mapping and could only be approximate given the postcode boundaries, line lengths and qualities and other factors, but would be interesting.

It might be that the cabs which were skipped are all the ones nearest the exchange on the basis that they can already get a fair to good ADSL2+ service, which would seem pragmatic, but it's not something I'd want to take the punt on, I'm looking for the minimum (theoretical headline) speed guarantee that comes with FTTC to have a decent chance of something usable.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

That's the one.

As I look at it, I'm guessing all the locations I'm trying are predominantly business addresses (as I want an office) and I'm guessing that all the locations I'm trying are served by cabs which are the "missing numbers" in that RFS cab list.

An overhead map would be very interesting showing which bits have been done and which ones haven't, but that would need postcode to cab mapping and could only be approximate given the postcode boundaries, line lengths and qualities and other factors, but would be interesting.

It might be that the cabs which were skipped are all the ones nearest the exchange on the basis that they can already get a fair to good ADSL2+ service, which would seem pragmatic, but it's not something I'd want to take the punt on, I'm looking for the minimum (theoretical headline) speed guarantee that comes with FTTC to have a decent chance of something usable.

#
them bieng in csv makes that easy to do i will have a look at it

Great find.

any idea what uplift means?

Looking at the line for my postcode

NIBA,"BANGOR, NORTHERN IRELAND",BT19XXX,{NIBA}{p23},0,100,12,NI 4a,YES,FTTC

I read the P23 as the cabinet number (which I knew already), the "100" means 100% of lines in our street can get FTTC, "12" I gather means 12% of lines currently have it. Probably not right though as some lines have way different numbers.

Edit: Seems the 12 is a factor of how much faster FTTC will be over ADSL speeds at that postcode.

Edited by orly (Wed 04-May-11 19:20:13)

"Mapping file that includes additional speed up lift factor per cab data. Uplift factor is a multiplier against ADSL2 average speed for lines on the cab."

Which seems right for my postcode for example.

However

NIBA,"BANGOR, NORTHERN IRELAND",BT196JR,{NIBA}{p48},0,12.5,4198.02,NI 4a,YES,FTTC ????

How much uplift would be required to existing line plant/furniture.

Can you explain that in plainer english for us thickos?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I just downloaded, (since your post), what appears to be the file - a zipped csv. 4.4MB, 47MB unzipped. PCP-PostCode report 13042011.

Clicked on it and it looks OK except OpenOffice CALC gave up at 65536 rows , which is still in the middle of Belfast City. Not a lot of use for checking whether it is right for my postcode in Stockport.

I don't fancy trying it with Wordpad or Notepad!

Neo Office (Open office clone) on the Mac reads it fine, Stockport starts at row 675066 and ends at 676540

Libreoffice is what you need http://www.libreoffice.org/assets/Uploads/EN-Project...

opens fine in office 2010 x64

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Libreoffice is what you need http://www.libreoffice.org/assets/Uploads/EN-Project...

Opens fine in office 07 for me. Very useful, finally some documentation that confirms my cab is getting FTTC - Nearly all cabs in my area have been upgraded except mine, but looking at that list its no wonder why BT are taking so long - its never ending!

Very interesting indeed...
My postcode is covered by 3 different cabs , and only 1 has a 'Yes' next to it! I assume that this means the other 2 will not be FTTC enabled (will they get FTTP instead...?).

I know where all the cabs are - 1 is in the next street (no), and the other 2 are in different places a few streets away (1 yes, 1 no). I would have thought I'd be on the nearest one (?)

FTTC not due here until 2012 now, so I guess I'll have to wait quite a while to find out.

'Uplift'/improvement of existing cabinets to accommodate the increased amount of cables, duct routes may have to be enlarged or de-silted, etc, etc, etc.








Thicko

so what would

{LCTOT}{p5},0,100,3.18,5a,Yes,FTTC

mean for my postcode? Just curious as the BT wholesale checker was saying FTTC would give me 100kb/s before (due to be upgraded in June/July) and now it isn't saying it's going to be available at all. I currently get 8-10mb on ADSL2 llu.

God knows, I am a thicky also, but I do know what 'uplift' means !

In reply to a post by Player:

so what would

{LCTOT}{p5},0,100,3.18,5a,Yes,FTTC

mean for my postcode? Just curious as the BT wholesale checker was saying FTTC would give me 100kb/s before (due to be upgraded in June/July) and now it isn't saying it's going to be available at all. I currently get 8-10mb on ADSL2 llu.

You are on cab 5
100% of lines on your cab should get FTTC when its enabled (the YES bit means your cab is still on the list to be done)
You could expect a 3.18x increase in your speed.
Your Cab is part of phase 5a of the rollout

Thats how i read mine. And im guessing

I presume, no postcode..no cabinet....no fibre.

In reply to a post by mkel78:

There is one zip file here that contains an excel document of all of the postcode locations of every street cabinet in the UK, it also says which cabinets are going to be FTTC enabled, you can cross reference against your own postcode.

Well not every exchange.Strangely Gloucester and Barnwood do not featue at all. Suppose that means no hope!

Ah - that might make sense:

[snip]
RFS 24 ALTON THATN
RFS 27 ALTON THATN
[/snip]

ALTON GU34 2PP
THATN p26
% Lines 90.47
Uplift 2.38

For some reason I thought the p meant page in another document. Perhaps it refers to the cab number.

Which would explain why that postcode can't have the service despite it having potentially high availability and not being a lot of effort to do - if it's cab 26 then it must have a cabinet and not be fed directly from the exchange (unless cab 26 is the exchange which seems unlikely)

FTTC - nothing to see here, move along.

Great find!

Here's my understanding from looking at the large spreadsheet in the ZIP file:

a) There are 800,000 rows because it covers every combination of postcode & cabinet. So if one postcode is covered by 3 cabinets, there are 3 rows.

Edit: I think this is every postcode covered by the currently planned exchanges, and every cabinet on those exchanges.

I've seen, in some other document on the first trials of VDSL, that BT has 80,000 PCPs.

b) Column D gives the exchange code and the cabinet number. You can compare with surrounding postcodes, and see who else shares the same cabinet.

c) Column F is a percentage. It seems to give the percentage of lines in the postcode that are on that cabinet.

For example, one local postcode shows 2 different cabinets. One has a value of 88.88%, and the other has 11.11%.

Not every postcode has combinations that add up to 100%. Perhaps they go across
exchange boundaries.

d) Column I is the "Deployed" column, which has this Key:
'Deployed' Key
�YES� = Part of scheduled deployment
�NO� = Removed or Deferred from Scheduled Deployment
�Blanks� = Not part of a phase / untargeted cabinet

So empty means it has no plan for either FTTC or FTTP.

From looking in my area (where the exchange was done in phase 4b, the bits marked "No" have also been marked in phase 6. I guess they are delayed a little longer...

e) The uplift figure does seem to be a multiplier of (ADSL2 speed) vs (Fibre speed).
For our postcode, the BTwholesale checker reports:
ADSL2: Average 11Mbps
Fibre range 30-36
Uplift: 3.63
And... 3.63*11 = 39.9.

I expect it is for marketing purposes, rather than technical ones.

The other mainland Spreadsheet seems to show which cabinets have gone into service (marked RFS "Ready For Service"); there's a column for new ones.

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-May-11 04:04:58)

Yes, the large XLS shows GU34 2PP to be serviced by cabinet 26 (the "{p26}").

The last 2 columns are blank, which shows (according to the key at the top) that no fibre service is planned in the schedule.

In the smaller XLS, you can see that cabinets 24 and 27 are RFC (ready for service).

Edit: 26->27. Embarrasing mistake that might have the OP's hopes rising...

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-May-11 04:28:54)

Almost.

I think the 100% means that 100% of lines in that postcode are on that cabinet.

I guess it helps marketing people to confirm just how likely someone is to get fibre service.

Makes sense - I didn't spot the 2nd row but after your excellent analysis I looked again:

GU342PP {THATN}{p26} 0 90.47 2.38
GU342PP {THATN}{p32} 0 9.52 2.16

So 100% of lines at that postcode - a major business park and serviced offices - are stuck with 3G / ADSL for the forseeable future

I can see two ways it could go...

a) That BT will find that cabinet uneconomic to upgrade, because so many businesses are already using leased lines.

The "uneconomic" part could be because no-one orders FTTC because they already have LL, or (more likely) they'd cancel the lucrative leased line, and swap to cheaper FTTC.

or

b) BT expect that business parks will go FTTP, so are being left out of FTTC plans entirely at the moment.

Perhaps they're confident that business with leased lines have different requirements from DSL products, and won't swap so easily.

And BT *have* announced that FTTC and FTTP will be mutually exclusive.

I personally haven't made my mind up yet. Am I happy that I'm relatively early on the list for FTTC? Or sad that I know this precludes FTTP?

Revisiting my list of the business areas in Alton which have offices to lease:

GU34 3AQ - not planned
GU34 2PP - not planned
GU34 5PZ - not even in the spreadsheet, checker says no

None of the central area (offices above shops) can have it either.

So that's Alton stuffed, then.

But the spreadsheet should enable me to find somewhere in another town, assuming BT haven't got a deliberate policy of avoiding businesses for the reasons you state, which were my suspicions too (leased lines present).

opens fine in notepad...

then you just CTRL+F and type in your postcode and it'll find the row if it exists.

What does phase 5a means then?

Can someone decode this for me

SMLT,LUTON,LU2 9QF,{SMLT}{p65},0,100,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0PP,{SMLT}{p65},0,48.14,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0PR,{SMLT}{p65},0,44,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0PU,{SMLT}{p65},0,75,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0PW,{SMLT}{p65},0,100,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0TG,{SMLT}{p65},0,37.14,,6a,No,FTTC

Some of the postcodes served by my pcp listed there are others

No = not planned to be done but 6a = phase 6a?

Edited by GaryPower (Thu 05-May-11 10:12:58)

Presumably the roll-out phase the exchange is part of.

Unsurprisingly, that link now leads to a protected page, but not before a lot of people got access I think

File now seems to be password protected, any chance someone can make it available for download from somewhere? Google docs perhaps?

In reply to a post by mikecrawford80:

File now seems to be password protected, any chance someone can make it available for download from somewhere? Google docs perhaps?

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_A6u7g4kGHAZWUzZTg...

Done.

Post deleted by GaryPower

In reply to a post by cjbell68:

Presumably the roll-out phase the exchange is part of.

Unsurprisingly, that link now leads to a protected page, but not before a lot of people got access I think

The exchange was one of the first to be done a long time ago but mine was one of the 25% or so PCP's that were missed hence my confustion with the No and the 6a!

Yes, at least lets you know what BT currently think about the cab - so now perhaps you can lobby interest around the postcode for getting it upgraded?

Hi Gary,

Could you make the document available again? I'm keen to see where my exchange/cab is due to be upgraded.

Thanks

Jon

In reply to a post by GaryPower:

In reply to a post by mikecrawford80:

File now seems to be password protected, any chance someone can make it available for download from somewhere? Google docs perhaps?

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_A6u7g4kGHAZWUzZTg...

Done.

Hi
It seems to have disappeared from google docs. Could you please upload it again? Perhaps on rapidshare.com?
Thanks

Try again now, it had the wrong sharing settings sorry!

Is it still there? I'm getting a "not avalable" message..

G

It should be available on google docs with correct sharing.

Also available via dropbox :

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9860239/PCP-to-Postcode-Repo...

Regards,

Gary

Thanks. The Dropbox link worked.

Ah well, Devon in a not-spot as usual! Only one town in my postcode area listed (TQ) and that's Dartmouth. Not even Newton Abbot which is much bigger!

G

Actually SMCO is not listed as being part of the rollout bt BT at the moment. Yet this document says it will be FTTC in phase 7b.

So it does hold some information that hasn't been released yet.

Does anyone know what time frames the different phase's relate to?

Dartmouths probably in the list to be upgraded due to the olympics next year!!

In reply to a post by andew:

Dartmouths probably in the list to be upgraded due to the olympics next year!!

Ah yes. That makes sense - from some point of view - not really from the rest of Devons point of view )-:

G

Great document - shows my cabinet (which is the number I'd expect) and a 30.36 x speed increase!!!

Thanks to Gary for making available too!

The latest announcement of 156 exchanges was Phase 7a part 2

So we can expect the next to be Phase 7b, probably in a couple of months.

Alton's a no go for broadband. Moving to Farnham however (next nearest town):

Could it be....

Riverside Park Serviced Offices
6 Riverside Park
Farnham
Surrey
GU9 7UG

GU9 7UG
{THFJ}{p69}
100% lines
3.58
5a
Yes
FTTC

Let's hope nobody there has leased lines.

So when will this be up and running one wonders.... (phase 5a)

While the list might be good for getting ideas, you probably want to take the postcode & put it into a DSL checker to see what it says.

In that case, there is no mention of FTTC, so no date for possible installation.

As for phase 5a...
My exchange was in 4b, and went live in Nov 2010. Guildford and Woking are in 5b, and their dates have gradually pushed back from Mar 2011 to Sept & Dec 2011.

And as for serviced offices...
Remeber that you usually buy your broadband service from the office, so you are dependent on them as well as BT.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Libreoffice is what you need http://www.libreoffice.org/assets/Uploads/EN-Project...

Thanks BatBoy. Interesting link . However I did go to have a look at the LibreOffice site as a result, and also the comparisons that google showed up.

Just in case, I upgraded from OO 3.2.1 to 3.3.0, which I wasn't aware of, (of which I was not aware [tongue), and that works fine. I might look into Libre some other time though. Seems it might be a wise move before long.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

While the list might be good for getting ideas, you probably want to take the postcode & put it into a DSL checker to see what it says.

Until the discovery of this document I'd spent so many hours doing that, I gave up in the end, as I couldn't locate anywhere - except one place, but by the time I went to have a look at the place, the checker had changed back to "No".

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

And as for serviced offices...
Remeber that you usually buy your broadband service from the office, so you are dependent on them as well as BT.

I don't actually need/want a serviced office as such, as I need my own connection for bandwidth and accountability/support reasons, but most places are serviced and all the places I've ever been in have been happy to let you have your own cable put in so I presume a phone line won't be a problem, but will check. I'd have to travel a round trip of over 35 miles to get cable which is a nightmare to get in business locations, nowhere near here has it, or I'd have solved this years ago

If I knew when that phase was to be completed I could even risk ADSL in the meantime but without a date for fibre it's not an attractive option.

Back to the search.

That spreadsheet is begging to be put into a database and have a simple front end rigged up replacing BT's availability checker with a more usefully detailed one, but I don't suppose they'd be too happy about that.

Mine was 4a (Northern Ireland) and was the work was done this time last year. Cabinet went live in June/July 2010

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

That spreadsheet is begging to be put into a database and have a simple front end rigged up replacing BT's availability checker with a more usefully detailed one, but I don't suppose they'd be too happy about that.

There used to be a map linked to by a poster on these forums where you put in your address or maybe it was post code and it showed all the cabinets in your area, BT and Virgin Media. It showed the post codes in the area dotted around the map, and you clicked, maybe hovered over, yours and up popped your BT cabinet number.

I think it originated from Openreach like this spreadsheet. Openreach "requested" that the owner of the site hosting it remove it .

Could anyone simplify this for me? I'm stupid, sorry...

NIAL AGHALEE BT670ES {NIAL}{p1} 0 93.33 2.21 NI 5a YES FTTC

93.33% of lines in postcode bt67_oes go though cabinet p1 and should have fttc in phase 5a, and should be over twice the current speed.

quick guess, since its p1 the other lines may be exchange direct.
ps 93.33% equates to 15 lines of 16 (or 30 of 32...)

I can't get FTTC, am on cabinet 1 on NIAL exchange

The other 6 person I believe go to another exchange 'Moira'.

Is it because of my distance?

woohoo - FTTP
Phase 7b, 100% lines, 9.45 uplift (over what? my maximum ever sync of 5mbps or my "normal" sync of 4mbps?)
Better start saving up...
BrianG

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

That spreadsheet is begging to be put into a database and have a simple front end rigged up replacing BT's availability checker with a more usefully detailed one, but I don't suppose they'd be too happy about that.

There used to be a map linked to by a poster on these forums where you put in your address or maybe it was post code and it showed all the cabinets in your area, BT and Virgin Media. It showed the post codes in the area dotted around the map, and you clicked, maybe hovered over, yours and up popped your BT cabinet number.

I think it originated from Openreach like this spreadsheet. Openreach "requested" that the owner of the site hosting it remove it .

That's a shame. The document is so large I dumped it into SQL Server in the end to query it since the formatting of the postcodes is all over the place (some have spaces, some not)

Would only take about 15 minutes to come up with an ASP.NET page

I suspect that the person with the map had just used the same CSV data, and added a GoogleMap as a front end to it.

If GoogleMaps don't let you specify location by postcode (within their API), then he might have needed a postcode->lat/long database+licence from the PO.

It is indeed a shame that the map went. It was extremely useful at the time. It would be even better if it included some speed figures from the checkers...

Anyone know the legality of putting the information online with a front end and a search tool?

It was publicly available, after all. I'll bet Virgin Media already have a copy, which is presumably BT's concern.

Some stats about the actual and planned % FTTC coverage in each town would be interesting indeed, all dead easy to do.

Guildford is 1st July.

Should anyone want to turn a list of post codes into a Google Map, I've just found this site:
http://batchgeo.com/

Thanks for the find OP - my Cab is the one I thought it was, with FTTC

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

That spreadsheet is begging to be put into a database and have a simple front end rigged up replacing BT's availability checker with a more usefully detailed one, but I don't suppose they'd be too happy about that.

There used to be a map linked to by a poster on these forums where you put in your address or maybe it was post code and it showed all the cabinets in your area, BT and Virgin Media. It showed the post codes in the area dotted around the map, and you clicked, maybe hovered over, yours and up popped your BT cabinet number.

I think it originated from Openreach like this spreadsheet. Openreach "requested" that the owner of the site hosting it remove it .

http://www.trefor.net/tech-pages/availability-checker/

We've already developed maps, tools, lookups and a front-end all based from this data for our company use on our internal intranet, which we've been using for many months, so yes, everything is do-able, but I suspect BT won't take kindly to it actually being published online (even though I would love to) which is why we've not released it.

As a teaser I can show you one of the internal maps we use to map postcodes to cabinets

http://adsl24.co.uk/files/teaser.jpg

James

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-May-11 21:02:18)

In reply to a post by GaryPower:

In reply to a post by mikecrawford80:

File now seems to be password protected, any chance someone can make it available for download from somewhere? Google docs perhaps?

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_A6u7g4kGHAZWUzZTg...

Done.

doesnt work, cannot upload somewhere valid?

This is what I got from the spreadsheet yesterday. My cab is nearly finished (9 months behind) and xhecker states 500Kb down 100Kb up

NIORM ORMEAU, BELFAST BT8 8LQ {NIORM}{p33} 0 100 26.28 NI 5b YES FTTC

'Milltown Estate' is your cabinet. It was due to be installed by 30th April 2011. Does it say your cabinet is due to be upgraded or it has been upgraded?

I got this whenever my cabinet was being installed however was too far from it to get FTTC. That '500Kbps down + 100Kbps up' will disappear once your cabinet is enabled.

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-May-11 23:57:55)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

http://www.trefor.net/tech-pages/availability-checker/

Yes, thanks BatBoy - that was it.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

I suspect that the person with the map had just used the same CSV data, and added a GoogleMap as a front end to it.

BatBoy has just posted the link.

It showed the exact location of each cabinet, with its number. Does google maps give that? I think it could also exclude the Virgin ones.

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

We've already developed maps, tools, lookups and a front-end all based from this data for our company use on our internal intranet, which we've been using for many months, so yes, everything is do-able, but I suspect BT won't take kindly to it actually being published online (even though I would love to) which is why we've not released it.

As a teaser I can show you one of the internal maps we use to map postcodes to cabinets

http://adsl24.co.uk/files/teaser.jpg

James

But your teaser doesn't show the number against the cabinet so far as I can see? And I note it is perhaps your immediate locality.

How are you for cabinet locations nationwide?

What happened to your extremely useful WBC >> BT node map James? Did you have accuracy problems, or did that get the mockers put on it as well?

Does anyone actually have the Virgin Media cable coverage information (postcodes, cabs etc)

On a personal level it would be the most useful document I've seen in years and would be easy to pull in

Yes, we have the same map for every FTTC location in the UK minus the actual cabinet locations, because BT won't give us this data. The map that was on the trefor site was the same, it was showing postcodes rather than actual cabinets I believe?

There is no document available from BT to tell us exactly how many "lines" are on which cab, however we do know how many postcodes are attached to any particular cab, so can work from there. Of course in our local exchange we know there are 9,000 lines, and 21 cabs, therefore an average per cab would be 428, however we know the amount of addresses per each postcode in our area so we know that the busiest cab has approx 748 and the lowest 48 (naturally the cab serving 48 is not being upgraded!).

The strange one is that we have a cab that has around 400 lines at present, and this one is also not being upgraded, but a load of other cabs serving between 100 and 400 lines are. So who knows what Openreach's strategy is. In fact, they have to pass the cab they are not upgrading with the fibre optic cables on the way to 4 other cabs further away - work that one out!

The WBC > BT node map was only really useful for our customers when we were with Entanet because they are the only ones who installed their own equipment at each of the 20 WBC node locations, but that's not been relevant since we left Entanet. As we now use a supper who opted for WMBC, it's not the same relevance so it made way for the FTTC map. That was our own decision though

Oh if only I could list and map all the data we have on our Intranet, but I know BT's stance so it wouldn't last long and we would get a telling off

Thanks

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

In reply to a post by GaryPower:

In reply to a post by mikecrawford80:

File now seems to be password protected, any chance someone can make it available for download from somewhere? Google docs perhaps?

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_A6u7g4kGHAZWUzZTg...

Done.

doesnt work, cannot upload somewhere valid?

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_A6u7g4kGHAZWUzZTg...

or

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9860239/PCP-to-Postcode-Repo...

Should work...

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

The strange one is that we have a cab that has around 400 lines at present, and this one is also not being upgraded, but a load of other cabs serving between 100 and 400 lines are. So who knows what Openreach's strategy is. In fact, they have to pass the cab they are not upgrading with the fibre optic cables on the way to 4 other cabs further away - work that one out!

Does the cab that isn't being upgraded serve a (newish) development/estate that is served by underground cables by any chance?

No, in fact its just the same as all the other cabs, and still very much in service and not end of life or anything.

OK. There are similar cases local to me where what would be regarded as 'obvious' cabs to upgrade, haven't been.

Speaking to local BT guys, their thoughts are that as premises served by FTTC cabs are unlikely to see any upgrade to FTTP in the forseeable future, those cabs that serve premises suitable for FTTP (i.e. served via underground duct in good condition) were deliberately omitted, with the intention of providing FTTP instead when it becomes more widely deployed.

Is the cab that isn't being upgraded one which serves a larger mix of businesses than residentials?

When this was released I was eager to see if my area was included as the exchange was to be enabled and guess what cab 48 pr26 7as not covered. After struggling for 10 years to get adsl I was expecting it.

I get appx 1mb adsl2 at 2.5kms from exchange. Everywhere around the locality is included in the fttc upgrade, even overhead lines to a previous building 40metre from me on cab 33. Really annoyed at this I think the cab for me also feeds a local industrial estate.

Virgin cable is also on the estate but not in the cul de sacs, perhaps a deciding factor. I am really please the folk near the exchange on 24mb adsl2 can now get 40mb fttc!!

Edited by deleted (Fri 06-May-11 11:40:14)

Several reasons spring to mind:

- Higher than average number of sub-standard (narrow gauge, aliminimum etc) lines from that cab (we're also 2.5km from the exchange and can't get 2Mbps despite the line length being 3.6km) meaning the fibre service will struggle;

- Too many long lines from cab to properties (circa > 1.5km - Virgin cable gets round that by having cabs closer and amplifying the signal around the local loop)

- At least one corporate has a leased line

- Having been promised additional revenue by New Labour (the telephone tax) which the coalition then dropped, the strategy is to skip businesses as they will have a louder voice later on in terms of the taxpayer begging bowl

- Leaving that cab/location open for FTTP later on (though as far as I know, apart from where there has been subsidy e.g. the South West there's no real plan for FTTP anyway - took long enough for FTTC, FTTP will probably be another 25 years)

- One of the objectives of FTTC is to gain market share, kill LLU, and push BT up the speed rankings where it has struggled for a long time especially versus cable. Hence Infinity is >15Mbps only. If the cab isn't going to result in speeds above 15Mbps all BT will accomplish is to install a network where other ISPs will get the business, which directly contradicts the strategy

This might be the lowest figure that has to be registered while the work is still being carried out to bring the cab into service.

I keep losing track. I know they were both Mar '11 together, and both slipped back. Then, with the new format of exchange documents, Guildford went into the "coming-soon" list, and Woking into the "coming later" list.

I think someone else pointed out that it that Trefor's only showed the postcode locations, and the pop-up info box told you cabinet number.

When I used that map, I didn't know where my cab was; just that it wasn't the obvious one. I had to do some extra analysis to get a rough idea, using BT's DSL speed estimates for different postcodes. That told me where the cabinet would be (it had to be close to the postcodes with 40Mb predictions, right?)

The strange one is that we have a cab that has around 400 lines at present, and this one is also not being upgraded, but a load of other cabs serving between 100 and 400 lines are. So who knows what Openreach's strategy is. In fact, they have to pass the cab they are not upgrading with the fibre optic cables on the way to 4 other cabs further away - work that one out!

I know of a cabinet like this, which had been scheduled for upgrade, and even some groundwork done, but is no-longer on the list, I think it was going to make the pavement too narrow.
another that was in a conservation area has been re-sited just outside that area, (100 metres to the pcp though)

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

Yes, we have the same map for every FTTC location in the UK minus the actual cabinet locations, because BT won't give us this data. The map that was on the trefor site was the same, it was showing postcodes rather than actual cabinets I believe?

I was going to ask about mapping cabinet locations too. Do you only graph the cabinet location for your local area because you know it some other way? For non-local areas, do you just pick a random/central spot? Or pick some postcode with a 40Mb speed estimate?

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

The strange one is that we have a cab that has around 400 lines at present, and this one is also not being upgraded, but a load of other cabs serving between 100 and 400 lines are. So who knows what Openreach's strategy is. In fact, they have to pass the cab they are not upgrading with the fibre optic cables on the way to 4 other cabs further away - work that one out!

Is this an area with a lot of business/office space, or an industrial estate?

If so, I wonder if it is because they will aim to do FTTP there. Or they are protecting revenue from people swapping out of leased-lines.

Nope, just normal residential houses etc

All sounds logical. Will track doen the exact placement of the cab at the weekend.

This estate is 25years old and all the cabling is underground I seem to remember the grumblings in the past from BT engineeers on the cabling and wiring. So long ago I cant rememder the details though.

Maybe the duct sharing scheme would allow Virgin to use BT duct to connect to me when the rental cost is resolved?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

- Higher than average number of sub-standard (narrow gauge, aliminimum etc) lines from that cab (we're also 2.5km from the exchange and can't get 2Mbps despite the line length being 3.6km) meaning the fibre service will struggle;

Well, they'll still be worse than copper lines of the same length. However, FTTC is still viable if the E-side is a significant proportion of the total length.

There are people who have had a fibre installation, where the D-side is over aluminimum. IIRC it was around 1km.

If your overall line length is 3.6km, how far is the cabinet?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

- Having been promised additional revenue by New Labour (the telephone tax) which the coalition then dropped, the strategy is to skip businesses as they will have a louder voice later on in terms of the taxpayer begging bowl

I'd have thought that "chasing subsidies" was an argument for whole rural exchanges, or for cabinets that supply remote villages. I don't think it works well for "suburb cabinets that also supply offices".

But who knows. I guess the councils for those areas will be desperate to make sure their local businesses are supplied well.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

- Leaving that cab/location open for FTTP later on (though as far as I know, apart from where there has been subsidy e.g. the South West there's no real plan for FTTP anyway - took long enough for FTTC, FTTP will probably be another 25 years)

BT have a large-scale pilot going on at Ebbsfleet for "greenfield" fibre - ie fibre where there is no existing copper loop. That's been going on for a while now. They also have "brownfield" FTTP trials going on at one of the Milton Keynes exchanges, which has been going a while, and a new one starting at an exchange in London.

The openreach coming soon list has 10 exchanges where there will be a mix of FTTC and FTTP. The "coming later" list on the same page has 7 exchanges getting just FTTP (all sound pretty dense/affluent areas of London), and 42 exchanges getting a mix of FTTC and FTTP (mostly out of London).

It sounds like BT are indeed ramping up the FTTP rollout, but I'm convinced it is going to be mainly business areas. So I also believe that some of the existing cabinets that have been left out will eventually get FTTP too - it was just that BT couldn't really announce it.

However, the longer-term issue remains. How long until BT introduce plans to get FTTP everywhere, and get rid of most of the FTTC being deployed today?

We can't know the answer to this - but I suspect they will start to push FTTP out in more city locations as the current plans continue. Perhaps in 6 or 7 years time. Perhaps the suburbs will start to get it in 8-10 years.

Remember that BT rolled-out the first version of ADSL in 2000-2004. They then did a new rollout of ADSLmax in 2005-2006. After that, they were rolling out their internal/core 21CN network so they could cope with further expansion, and then 2008 onwards, were rolling out ADSL2+. FTTC started it's rollout in 2010, and FTTP will become a proper rollout either later this year, or in 2012.

With all those going on in the last decade+ (and everyone accuses BT of being slow), it still seems unlikely that we'll be waiting 25 years for FTTP. Heck, 25 years ago, my modem went at 1200/75 bits per second, and the online experience was akin to glorified Ceefax.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

- One of the objectives of FTTC is to gain market share, kill LLU, and push BT up the speed rankings where it has struggled for a long time especially versus cable. Hence Infinity is >15Mbps only. If the cab isn't going to result in speeds above 15Mbps all BT will accomplish is to install a network where other ISPs will get the business, which directly contradicts the strategy

When you go to the expense of a national rollout, you certainly hope to crush the competition - so sure, all of those objectives are true.

One reason "Infinity" (as a brand within BT Retail's operation) is >15Mbps only, is to keep the purity of the "infinity" brand. It lets them market that brand as being 3x faster etc.

BT do have fibre products available for <15Mbps, but they're not "infinity" branded, even if they cost the same.

The other ISPs will take the business at speeds down to 5Mbps because they haven't got a self-imposed marketing limit.

Right now, Openreach will allow down to 5Mbps, but they seem to be upgrading their core systems to allow fibre down to 2Mbps. I guess that means they will start installing in areas where the D-side cable is pretty long, but it isn't obvious (technically) whether that will still be VDSL2, or ADSL2+ from the cabinet.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

If your overall line length is 3.6km, how far is the cabinet?

Making the assumption that the (only) cabinet is actually used - it looks a bit ancient and unloved - then it's easy to work this one out.

The duct comes from the exchange in a near straight line down the only road that comes to here. You can see the manhole cover on the edge of the village where it pops out fairly near to that cab.

That run is about 1.7km, so if the D side were dead straight then it would be circa 800m perhaps (that's how far the cab is), but it isn't a straight line, so the D side is about 1.9km. But we've very near that box, far nearer than almost everyone else. How it's routed is a mystery - you can see the overhead bits but not the underground ones, but I can hazard a guess. There are only so many ways it could go.

The problem here would be the length of the D sides and the quality of the lines. While we might see maybe 20Mbps downstream we'd be in a minority of people getting those sorts of speeds; probably 2 more cabinets would be needed to reach the whole area with something close to the headline speeds (not clustered) and there's no way anyone round here is going to have one of those massive cabinets on their land let alone another two. It's not the right solution for this area because it isn't clustered even if the lines were good quality copper.

One other thing I thought about reference not doing specific cabs is: too many DACS lines. Which I imagine is more prevalent in edge of town locations where the town has grown outwards, DACS was used to supply lines meaning that BT would have to go back to basics and re-establish a straight through network first before getting to broadband.

Except that perhaps a DACS line - while being unable to get ADSL - could perhaps get VDSL?

An interesting document. Putting in a few postcodes I know seems to make sense. NN136JA says an uplift of 4.69 which makes sense. The checker reckons 11.5Mb/s at present and that postcode is prolly within 500 metres as the cable lies from the cabinet. I also think that mine is cabinet 15.

Another postcode is more intriguing though: NN137NJ. That's my mate's on the other side of town. The uplift seems logical - he's closer to the exchange and the estimator reckons 20Mb/s so a 2.15 uplift is fair. I also guess that the line percentage is because some properties in that post code are direct exchange lines. Pity it doesn't given an indication of where the cab is though - there's not many on that side of town and none near them.

What does it mean if an exchange/post code is not on the list? BT don't even consider it worth discussing?

:-/

Edited by Andrue (Fri 06-May-11 17:02:32)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Clicked on it and it looks OK except OpenOffice CALC gave up at 65536 rows , which is still in the middle of Belfast City. Not a lot of use for checking whether it is right for my postcode in Stockport.

What version of OO? i'm using 3.3.0 and it's loaded it fine. Took ruddy ages but got there eventually. Oh and the default separators were stupid - I mean what numbnut wrote that bit of logic? You can see it now:

if( fileNameMatches("*.csv") )
{
separators=';'+' ';
}

The phrase 'what a pillock' springs to mind .

I was wondering if any of you could help me understand this. My exchange (Penketh) is scheduled to be upgraded at the end of this month. I had a look at this document, and according to it, every cabinet on this exchange will be upgraded except two. Both cabinets that are not being upgraded are quite distant from me. The cabinet my postcode is linked to (and all nearby) also says 100% in the percent lines column.

On the BT wholesale checker however, if I use my postcode it says that my area is due to be upgraded, and gives estimated speeds (10-26mbit).If i use phone or address lookup, it doesn't mention FTTC at all.

Is this an issue with the checker, or is it more likely they've cancelled upgrading my cabinet for whatever reason?

In reply to a post by Andrue:

What does it mean if an exchange/post code is not on the list? BT don't even consider it worth discussing?

:-/

Not all the UK postcodes are in that list.

Our exchange isn't planned, and none of our area's postcodes are in the list.

Not all of the postcodes served by any "enabled exchange" feature in the document, so yes, I presume it means it's not even being considered, whereas some do even though they're not being done (which is how you know they're not going to be done!)

im using oo 3.2 and it loading in <1 second no slower than it might load a 10 line exel file

Not all the UK postcodes are in that list.

there are approx 1.75 million postcode 'units' in uk
this list has about 0.8 million, (just under half of them )

Seems to be the Wholesale checker

Trefor's only showed the postcode locations, and the pop-up info box told you cabinet number.

it showed the cabinet number of the first record for that postcode, which though generally correct, left out details if more than one cabinet (or direct exchange...) covered the area

I am struggling to make sense of the document.

My postcode is listed on cab 16, which is not scheduled for FTTC (the last 3 columns are empty). However, in the percentage of lines column 2.5 is listed.

Does anyone know if this means that only 2.5% of lines at that postcode are on that cabinet, or if only 2.5% would benefit if it was upgraded to FTTC?

If only 2.5% of lines are on that cabinet, then where do the other 97.5% go? There are no other rows for my postcode.

My postcode represents one-half of a large block of 150 flats. The postcode for the other half does not appear on the spreadsheet at all.

2.5% of the lines in that post code are through that cabinet. The other 97.5% presumably are either through another cabinet or are directly fed (no cabinet)

In reply to a post by mattypi:

im using oo 3.2 and it loading in <1 second no slower than it might load a 10 line exel file

Weird. It's not like I'm on a [censored] machine either. It's a laptop with a 2.1GHz dual core Pentium and 4GB of memory running Win 7.

My machine is a desktop qc i7 8gb ddr3 and win 7 and its like any outer exel file, have you tried g-docs or something?

Dont bother Chris! I have opened it.

Guess which major city centre has been missed again!!!

The mind boggles!!

With 1.8km (or so) left on the D-side, you'd benefit hugely from ADSL2+-from-the-cabinet - maybe around 17-18Mbps raw. But that distance sounds like it is the border for VDSL2 performance.

One day soon, BT will recognise that FTTC is good for (almost) all, no matter what circumstance they have. But while they concentrate on the headline speed of 40mbps, and on keeping their "Infinity" brand pure, there is less chance of them doing anything.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel, as Openreach appear to be updating their internal systems to allow fibre to be handled at "up to 2Mbps" speeds - and the *only* reason for doing this would be to benefit lines like yours.

I also agree about the cabinets.. at some point in the rollout, BT will realise that they need to put some cabinets further out in the network. However, I doubt if this will be of the form of the "big" green cabinet... For example, Ericsson make a DSLAM for 12 lines, small enough to mount on a pole. i imagine that, while fibre may not reach the home, it *does* get further out in the network. Just later...

DACS - i doubt it will handle VDSL2 any more than it handled ADSL.

In reply to a post by Andrue:

What does it mean if an exchange/post code is not on the list? BT don't even consider it worth discussing?

I think every postcode that is covered by an announced exchange is in the list - to show its status.

If a postcode isn't in the list, then it isn't covered by an exchange that has been announced by BT.

That's my read, anyway...

In reply to a post by Andrue:

Pity it doesn't given an indication of where the cab is though - there's not many on that side of town and none near them.

Want to know where it is?

- Find the postcodes that share the same cabinet;
- Plug the postcode into BT's speed checker;
- Where the result is 40Mbps, it is within 300m of the cabinet, approx.

If you find enough postcodes at 40Mbps, and plot them on a map (Google's maps will do), the cabinet will be close to the centre.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

On the BT wholesale checker however, if I use my postcode it says that my area is due to be upgraded, and gives estimated speeds (10-26mbit).If i use phone or address lookup, it doesn't mention FTTC at all.

Is this an issue with the checker, or is it more likely they've cancelled upgrading my cabinet for whatever reason?

When querying the checker for an individual line, BT tend to cut off those lines with a low speed - and so they don't even mention the fibre possibilities.

BT Retail, with their "infinity" brand, tend to cut off at 15Mbps. Other ISPs will supply at lower speeds.

Have you tried asking for service from another ISP (eg Plusnet)?

In reply to a post by ggremlin:

Not all the UK postcodes are in that list.

there are approx 1.75 million postcode 'units' in uk
this list has about 0.8 million, (just under half of them )

It has 800,000 rows, but not 800,000 postcodes!

Some postcodes are duplicated, where they are served by multiple cabinets.

In reply to a post by ggremlin:

Trefor's only showed the postcode locations, and the pop-up info box told you cabinet number.

it showed the cabinet number of the first record for that postcode, which though generally correct, left out details if more than one cabinet (or direct exchange...) covered the area

Good point - I suspect you are right.

I didn't have the map and CSV to compare at the same time, but I don't recall much in the map showing signs of overlap. On the other hand, I was selfish at the time the map was up, and mostly looked at my own area.

In reply to a post by Philce:

Dont bother Chris! I have opened it.

Guess which major city centre has been missed again!!!

The mind boggles!!

Maybe you're in luck, and you'll get FTTP instead. If that is the case, you'll be having the last laugh over us mere FTTC plebs

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

<snip>

I also agree about the cabinets.. at some point in the rollout, BT will realise that they need to put some cabinets further out in the network. However, I doubt if this will be of the form of the "big" green cabinet... For example, Ericsson make a DSLAM for 12 lines, small enough to mount on a pole. i imagine that, while fibre may not reach the home, it *does* get further out in the network. Just later...

<snip>

That aspect certainly interests me. My DP only serves 11 properties and a pole mounted 12-line DSLAM would be ideal. With the drop wire checked for quality and replaced, if necessary, FTTP would be unnecessary.

As of right now, my cabinet has been enabled and the exchange also too is enabled for fibre however it is not WBC 21CN enabled, but, again however, I can see from the list that it another exchanging is piggy backing a few exchanges including my one.

My main issue though now is, I get around 5Mbps. My cabinet is about 20 metres from the exchange and I highly doubt that will increase my speed by much.

Do BT ever install cabinets in the future & disconnect old lines from the further cabinet to the closer one? Nothing is showing up on my FTTC checker except this:


For Telephone Number 028XXXXXXXX on Exchange AGHALEE

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1.5Mbps and 3.5Mbps.

The actual stable line speed supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use. This speed may change over time, to ensure line stability is maintained.

If you decide to place an order, a further test will be performed to confirm if your line is suitable for the service you wish to purchase.

Thank you for your interest.

Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.
Note: If you already have a Broadband service enabled on this line and you want to switch service providers, you will need to contact both your current provider and your new provider to get your service changed over new and existing service provider to have this service transferred.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

With 1.8km (or so) left on the D-side, you'd benefit hugely from ADSL2+-from-the-cabinet - maybe around 17-18Mbps raw. But that distance sounds like it is the border for VDSL2 performance.

One day soon, BT will recognise that FTTC is good for (almost) all, no matter what circumstance they have. But while they concentrate on the headline speed of 40mbps, and on keeping their "Infinity" brand pure, there is less chance of them doing anything.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel, as Openreach appear to be updating their internal systems to allow fibre to be handled at "up to 2Mbps" speeds - and the *only* reason for doing this would be to benefit lines like yours.

I also agree about the cabinets.. at some point in the rollout, BT will realise that they need to put some cabinets further out in the network. However, I doubt if this will be of the form of the "big" green cabinet... For example, Ericsson make a DSLAM for 12 lines, small enough to mount on a pole. i imagine that, while fibre may not reach the home, it *does* get further out in the network. Just later...

DACS - i doubt it will handle VDSL2 any more than it handled ADSL.

I wondered if - depending on where the DACS box is - a telephony service could still be run through it, and as the rest of the line splices off to the fibre cab the DACS line could still have the fibre service since it "skips" the bit where the DACS box is. If that makes sense

I'm involved in the parish planning committee and potentially getting a private solution for our village, as the chances of getting FTTC are nil (c. 1300 premises). If we get our own solution in place then BT will pop along and fibre the cab up immediately so there would be a choice of two (for the people like us living very near to it, anyway).

Though the village doesn't have a transient population, and people have memories of what BT services are like.

From what I'd read, @ 1.5km D side FTTC can only manage 22Mbps at best based on VDSL1 and a good quality copper line, which we don't have, and some D-sides are circa 3km+.

The village isn't like a "hub" with a cab in the middle. It's two narrow roads which intersect (mainly, there are side roads) and the cab is nowhere near central.

The layout and configuration should enable a FTTP service to be installed relatively easily by just running along the two main roads. However the cost is likely to be prohibitive unless there's decent take-up.

A wireless option would seem to be the most pragmatic since the antennas only need putting on the chimneys who would take the service. Initial indications are that demand will be much higher than I'd thought which is positive.

That said, if telephony could be bundled in, BT may as well just shut the exchange; there are issues with the telephone service here (calls don't connect but you still get charged, for instance, crackling lines when it rains, etc) as it's so old and decrepit. I don't know how widespread that is, but four seperate people have said this to me now and it used to happen on our line from time to time when we had it.

FTTC strikes me as a very expensive way (2 or 3 new cabs needed to service probably only 200 properties each) of delivering a barely current gen solution which would only last perhaps ten years, but it's academic anyway since nobody would have the cabs, and even if they were, nobody is going to install them.

In a clustered high density urban area, though, where all the properties are within 1km of the cab, then FTTC could potentially supply much faster speeds - it suits that configuration and would be OK in the short to medium term.

If the private solution we (hopefully) manage to get is FTTP and can run TV services too that would be great as TV signals are poor too. People in rural areas don't like ugly satellite dishes on their roofs.

The best option for our village is for the "consortium" to come along and fibre the whole village up, so I watch with interest, sorts phone and TV potentially too, and would save us an enormous amount of money

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

Do BT ever install cabinets in the future & disconnect old lines from the further cabinet to the closer one?

Evidence based on posts on here suggests not; FTTC isn't the development of a broadband network as such, it's more like a "bolt on to the telephone network" as it were though very good results can be achieved as long as you're very near the cabinet.

If a new housing development were built requiring new cable runs, then moving stuff around might be an option perhaps.

Very much doubt it - rural area here.

@Anonymous - wish you very good luck in hopefully getting rid of BT and creating your own fibre network. Just wonodering however, where do you get the fibre backhaul from?

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

In reply to a post by Philce:

Dont bother Chris! I have opened it.

Guess which major city centre has been missed again!!!

The mind boggles!!

Maybe you're in luck, and you'll get FTTP instead. If that is the case, you'll be having the last laugh over us mere FTTC plebs

I doubt that very much, its "economic" reasons, ie we dont have enough affluent people here.

There is obviously something serious (colapsed ducts etc) preventing FTTC here. We got ADSL in the initial roll out, WBC too.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I'm involved in the parish planning committee and potentially getting a private solution for our village, as the chances of getting FTTC are nil (c. 1300 premises). If we get our own solution in place then BT will pop along and fibre the cab up immediately so there would be a choice of two (for the people like us living very near to it, anyway).

Though the village doesn't have a transient population, and people have memories of what BT services are like.

Hello Anonymous, your information (above) reads just like the situation of a certain Walter, of whom I know, from Kitz' forum.

Out of interest, if the worksheet lists a postcode as FTTP, does that mean I must take FTTP, or is it an option over FTTC? I don't see many isps offering FTTP yet
BrianG

Well you can take ADSL/ADSL2 but they aren't putting any FTTC cabinets so to speak, just fibre directly to your premise so you can't choose FTTC.

I thought that only applied if you were served directly from the exchange? We are about 50 yards from the old cabinet, which in turn is about 3.5km from the exchange

AFAIK , a location may get one or the other, but not both

For all I know, if it says FTTC/P on your list then that means you can get both FTTC and FTTP if it's in your area however if it says FTTP then that means you can only get FTTP as they are not installing FTTC cabinets in your area. You can also get ADSL obviously & ADSL2 if your exchange has got that enabled.

That's just what I'm aware of - someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The exchange is EAMAD, one of the winning "race" exchanges. Of the 7 cabinets listed 5 show as "FTTP" the other 2 as "FTTC".

Openreach engineer who was here a couple of weeks back talked about us getting Infinity next year, and mentioned there was only one cab in the village, which seems to tie in with the postcode mapping on the spreadsheet. That cab shows as FTTP. Village is 3.5-4.5km by road from exchange. Would they serve that distance direct from the exchange then?

When the Openreach engineer was out - did he have to do any work externally? Did he mention that he had to go to the cabinet to fix anything?

You can't really say for sure as ADSL speeds is via the exchange, not the cabinet whereas FTTC is by the cabinet. If you insert your postcode in there, does it show FTTC/FTTP and what is the percentage of lines on your postcode?

Yes he was fiddling around at the cabinet trying to fix our adsl.

Postcode shows FTTP, percentage of lines 100, uplift 9.45 (all the postcodes on that cab show FTTP, uplift 9.45)

Nope then it's not an exchange line - I don't think FTTP would be that more expensive, isn't it the same price as normal FTTC? What prices does BT Infinity quote you when you pop that into their checker?

BT checker hasn't caught up with us yet! Neither has the Infinity availability map.
Can't see any general info on the BT site other than the "up to 40mbps" service which is fttc. Only references to fttp I can find are to the trials

Plusnet are running FTTP trials too - and while their FTTC trials have changed to active service, the FTTP trials are still going on.

My knowledge of FTTP vs FTTC is limited to the head honcho's statement that FTTC and FTTP will be mutually exclusive - an area will get one or the other. I presume, from the look of these documents, that the "area" can be as small as an individual cabinet area.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I wondered if - depending on where the DACS box is - a telephony service could still be run through it, and as the rest of the line splices off to the fibre cab the DACS line could still have the fibre service since it "skips" the bit where the DACS box is. If that makes sense

If the DACS remote unit sits on the E-side of the cabinet, then I guess FTTC would manage just fine. The ones further out in the network would prevent FTTC working.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

From what I'd read, @ 1.5km D side FTTC can only manage 22Mbps at best based on VDSL1 and a good quality copper line, which we don't have, and some D-sides are circa 3km+.

It could be less, once crosstalk is factored in. And looking at this Ericsson document , I'd say it is the Upstream that limits us more at distances > 1.5km.

OK starting to make some sense now. So FTTP is not yet really out there "in the wild", retail product pricing probably not yet finally sorted. Maybe they will offer an entry level speed capped service which equates to FTTC speeds, as well as a full bore product. Either way I suspect there won't be many isps offering fttp by early next year, so might have to grit teeth and sign up to BT / Plusnet

Does anybody have a key to the phases?

My exchnage is phase 6a. ?

TIA

6a = by 30th June 2011

This document is missing all the postcodes from FY

If it is missing such a large area I suspect there are probably many other missing areas.

Does it mean BT are not even considering FTTC/P in this area? Does this need reporting to BT as they completely forgotten a large area?

Thanks

Just means that it's beyond 7b for now - not sure what 7b is, mid-2012 I think?

In reply to a post by Justo:

Just means that it's beyond 7b for now - not sure what 7b is, mid-2012 I think?

End of 2011. At least Brackley is 7b and currently slated for December.

Do you still have a copy of that file you can either upload or send over to me ?

Feel free to PM me.

In reply to a post by IamQ:

Do you still have a copy of that file you can either upload or send over to me ?

Feel free to PM me.

If its the Fibre Cab postcode file , here it is:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/yy8dn9

It was and thank you.

Now been posted as a Google doc.

http://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid...

If you click on "show options" you can search on various column options.

Edited by Brunel (Wed 18-May-11 12:23:10)

In reply to a post by Brunel:

Now been posted as a Google doc.

http://www.google.com/fusiontables/D...id=S193599b0Lx

Not Found
Error 404

Your links broken.

Edited by Cruncher (Wed 18-May-11 12:03:30)

Try this:

http://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid...

Have also corrected original post.

Edited by Brunel (Wed 18-May-11 12:19:57)

Just looking at my parents house, it is down as 7a, yet their exchange is not one of the ones mentioned in the 7a press release.

Can that be right? There is no mention of future availablility on the bt checker either.

The data in this spreadsheet seems to be outdated / wrong for my exchange (Worksop). The spreadsheet shows the exchange being part of wave 6b but it was only just announced recently and I suspect it much later than 6b. It was also announced as FTTC but the spreadsheet shows a shed-load of FTTP in there too. I have reasons for hoping the data is just plain wrong as my cabinet shows no FTTC or FTTP.

There are strange things on the wholesale checker for that exchange and cabinet too. Some post codes attached to that cabinet (100%) show like they are already FTTC enabled whilst others like mine show nothing.

Strange, I guess I will just need to wait and hope.

In reply to a post by abat:

The data in this spreadsheet seems to be outdated / wrong for my exchange (Worksop). The spreadsheet shows the exchange being part of wave 6b but it was only just announced recently and I suspect it much later than 6b. It was also announced as FTTC but the spreadsheet shows a shed-load of FTTP in there too. I have reasons for hoping the data is just plain wrong as my cabinet shows no FTTC or FTTP.

There are strange things on the wholesale checker for that exchange and cabinet too. Some post codes attached to that cabinet (100%) show like they are already FTTC enabled whilst others like mine show nothing.

Strange, I guess I will just need to wait and hope.

It does not matter if it was announced by BT Openreach in phase 7b (the recent one) As they then advised that the phase ordering no longer matters, it more of a target for the deployment order than set in stone.
Don't worry about that!

Worksop is hybrid FTTC and FTTP
http://www.buckconsult.co.uk/fttx/worksop.JPG - Here is a map showing what will get what...
Yellow = FTTC
Blue = FTTP

My exchange LSGRNH, was supposed to be part of phase 6 roll out (Dec 11).

this file doesn't have any DA10, that i can find????

sam knows says march 2012.....

bt infinty map, says Dec 2012.....

when are they going to do it....

Just bought a place (that was built in 2007), no moved in yet so no phone line at the moment but my postcode shows...

Samknows website shows: RFS date set : 01/03/2012

That BT doc shows: Phase 6b
{LVEAS}{p11} 0 36.36 3.73 6b Yes FTTC
{LVEAS}{p2} 0 63.63 2.49 6b Yes FTTC

The BT Wholesale gives:
Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed between 29.1 to 33.3 Mbps and upstream line speed between 5.5 to 7.5 Mbps.

ADSL24 Checker:
Fibre Available in some areas (check with your telephone number to be certain)
29.1 Mb downstream (BT estimate)
5.5 Mb upstream (BT estimate)

Edited by deleted (Fri 07-Oct-11 15:55:32)

mine is also the same RFS date

but i can't find any info on that doc

As an update i contacted the head honcho in charge of the infinity deployemnt.

the infinity website is going to be updated 12th of december with the correct dates, but he assures me
that my exchange, which was a phase 6 once (DEC 2011), will be enabled and taking orders by end of march 2012.

so, some light at the end of the tunnel.

The exchange may be enabled March, but that doesn't mean the cabinets will be (expect possible a few), so it doesn't really mean much about the exchange enablement date...

Can someone please check my postcode, RM14 3HA
I looked at the doc some time ago and it came up with some weird numbers and if I remember correctly said I might be on Cab 2, but I cant find any cabs near to where I live. I'm on Upminster (LNUPN) exchange which is supposed to go live at the end of the month - so far all checkers 'say not available in your area'.

2% of your postcode are connected to Cab 2 in phase 9a - so that would suggest that 98% are either direct connects to the exchange or more likely on a Cab not planned anytime soon.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

As an update i contacted the head honcho in charge of the infinity deployemnt.

Who's that?

Head guy is Jonathon McQuoid.

but one of his staff replied. [email protected]
he explained that they are about 1 quarter behind the planned progress.

Apparently, the tracker on the BT website is now up to date, and the phase 6 installs
are all mostly due by the end of march.

so at least there is light at the end of the tunnel.

In reply to a post by GaryPower:

Can someone decode this for me

SMLT,LUTON,LU2 9QF,{SMLT}{p65},0,100,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0PP,{SMLT}{p65},0,48.14,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0PR,{SMLT}{p65},0,44,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0PU,{SMLT}{p65},0,75,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0PW,{SMLT}{p65},0,100,,6a,No,FTTC
SMLT,LUTON,LU2 0TG,{SMLT}{p65},0,37.14,,6a,No,FTTC

Some of the postcodes served by my pcp listed there are others

No = not planned to be done but 6a = phase 6a?

So did anyone suss out the above? My cabinet is the same (No/6a) - does this mean the cab will be upgraded by 30 Jun 2012?

Usually the "No" means it was planned, but subsequently either removed or deferred.

The best understanding is that if there is also a phase named and the next column also specifies the FTTC or FTTP tech, then the cabinet has been deferred.

However, while BT previously used the phases when it announced the exchanges, they don't mean much nowadays in terms of a date when things will be running.

Thanks WWWombat - my exchange (SMHH) was one of the first to offer FTTC. So it sounds my cabinet will remain on the everlasting waiting list

Does anyone have a copy of the December xls file?

its doesn't seem available on openreach since their revamp.

We have a copy but of course can't release it. I can look up specific postcodes via PM for availability purposes only (of course)

>We have a copy but of course can't release it.

Does this spreadsheet have the new exchanges recently announced included? I guess it might be too soon for detailed postcode specific information?

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4924-bt-announces...

TIA

Yes, it does include all the latest announced exchange postcode/cab data

James

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

Yes, it does include all the latest announced exchange postcode/cab data

James

Hi james, does the december info tell you when PCP43 on the north wembley exhange will be updated - im still waiting.... every other PCP i have seen has been updated bar mine!

thanks

No, the file is only regarding the rollout in general not dates for each individual cab

Is this document old? The BT checker says I should be getting FTTC by March 31st however this document does not list my exchange. The openreach coming soon list however says I should be getting FTTP.

James,

can you provide information for DA10 0HJ.

We are supposed to be getting fibre by march i think.

Your postcode is fed by two cabinets (some houses on one, some on another) but both these cabs are planned to be upgraded so not really an issue

James.. Good News !!!!

many thanks for checking for me. much appreciated.

Steve

Sorry to be a pain James but any chance you could check CO10 2RW? i have a feeling i feed directly from the exchange instead of via a cab.

Can anyone tell me whether my cabinet will get FTTC/FTTP. It was not in the original document. Exchange is Westhoughton due in June 2012 and post code is BL5 2RY. Thanks

Post deleted by Moradin

Hi James. Newbie here. Could you if you get a minute check my cab for FTTC? Postcode SN14 0jd.

Many Thanks.

Hi If Somebody could check my postcode BA21 5PN, Yeovil exchange set for Dec 12, i have a feeling the cab i am on is not being done but 1 a few hundred yards away.

Thanks

Can anyone tell me whether my cabinet will get FTTC/FTTP. It was not in the original document. Exchange is Westhoughton due in June 2012 and post code is BL5 2RY. Thanks

Guys,

I am really sorry but I'm unable to help out *everyone* regarding FTTC available on their specific postcode by way of private messaging. I usually offer when someone posts and they are stuck but in the past few days I've had double figures of people PM'ing me with their postcode to check their cabinet status - unfortunately I can only really help if it's to do with obtaining FTTC with ADSL24 as I just don't have the time to check so many postcodes, plus I should only really be using the data provided by Openreach to help with sales enquiries not general FTTC info to non-customers, so whilst I will endeavour to help as best I can I can't promised I can return your private message!

Thanks,

James

In reply to a post by Brunel:

Now been posted as a Google doc.

http://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid...

If you click on "show options" you can search on various column options.

Please tell me there is a QUICK search function on this.

In reply to a post by Sy5gtt:

In reply to a post by Brunel:

Now been posted as a Google doc.

http://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid...

If you click on "show options" you can search on various column options.

Please tell me there is a QUICK search function on this.

Set the filter as described above.

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

...so whilst I will endeavour to help as best I can I can't promised I can return your private message!

Thanks,

James

PM'ed you, I can be patient

I've heard numerous stories about my exchange from various sources, I'm wondering if they're true or not

(Apparently the exchange is done already, but there was a cock-up with the fibre cable delivery which pushed it back, but at the same time stuffed a load of businesses in the town who are directly connected to the exchange, not via cabs)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Sy5gtt:

In reply to a post by Brunel:

Now been posted as a Google doc.

http://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid...

If you click on "show options" you can search on various column options.

Please tell me there is a QUICK search function on this.

Set the filter as described above.

sorry I am a bit thick . I'm trying to find postcode sn14 0jd. What do I need to set the filter as?

In reply to a post by Sy5gtt:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Sy5gtt:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Please tell me there is a QUICK search function on this.

Set the filter as described above.

sorry I am a bit thick . I'm trying to find postcode sn14 0jd. What do I need to set the filter as?

starts with sn14 is a good start

Postcode = SN140JD

but I have some bad news...

In reply to a post by Stoo:

In reply to a post by Sy5gtt:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Set the filter as described above.

sorry I am a bit thick . I'm trying to find postcode sn14 0jd. What do I need to set the filter as?

starts with sn14 is a good start

lol. Cheers. Got it

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Postcode = SN140JD

but I have some bad news...

Let me guess. No plans even though about 10 postcodes seem to be using my cab?

Sy5gtt

you posted the link to the OLD april version..

thats not really any good to anyone. Dont look at it.

What's needed is the Early DECEMBER recent version.

thats the version that ISP's can download from openreach.

(hard at work trying to hack openreach as we speak )

In reply to a post by Moradin:

Sy5gtt

you posted the link to the OLD april version..

thats not really any good to anyone. Dont look at it.

What's needed is the Early DECEMBER recent version.

thats the version that ISP's can download from openreach.

(hard at work trying to hack openreach as we speak )

oh right, well crack on then our exchange is done and we missed out on the first rollout. I just want to know if we're in the pipeline or not as bt don't seem to know.

Good luck with that!

Your postcode looks like its connected to the Chippenham Exchange, which is accepting orders..

So checking with the BT order line website is your next step

In reply to a post by Moradin:

Your postcode looks like its connected to the Chippenham Exchange, which is accepting orders..

So checking with the BT order line website is your next step

Cabs not enabled yet (if it ever will be)