FTTP / FTTH ISPs

Hi All,
In September / October this year my parents will be moving into a new build house. They have had all the meetings and it has been confirmed that the houses will have FTTH connections, with the fibre coming right into the understairs cupboard.

My question is around choosing an ISP for them.
Is there an up-to-date list of ISPs that will offer a connection on FTTH?

I asked PlusNet (my ISP for FTTC) and they said there was a trial but you need to be an existing customer first and I should order ADSL and then request to be on the trial, but nothing was certain and I may not be accepted.

I am aware of the BT offerings i.e. Infinity 4, but would rather avoid BT Retail.

I have seen lists of ISPs offering, but most lists are from 2013 or so and don't seem to have been updated.

My main requirements are unlimited usage and reliability. I would rather not have the "snooping" on my like that BT Retail (and the "big" ISPs) do as a matter of course, for no reason other than I disagree with it.

Thanks in advance,
Marcus

BT, AAISP and Zen.

You wish to avoid BT but they tend to be the cheapest.

You don't have to take Infinity 4, you can still take their lower tier Infinity 1 (55/10) and Infinity 2 (80/20) services on FTTP.

IDNet will supply FTTP, but no details on their website- if you go here and scroll down it's below the prices for ADSL packages.

I assume you'd need to call them.


eta- Oops- http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4531368-ftt...

Edited by billford (Mon 20-Feb-17 21:36:25)

Marcus

Are you sure that the property will have BTW FTTP?
Some developers have installed FTTP not using the BTW network so the homeowner has no choice of ISP but must use the one who installed FTTP for the developer.

As Lee says the choice for reasonable money and unlimited data is small. Basically BT Consumer, Zen, Plusnet (but trial only and must be ADSL customer). AAISP is not unlimited.

Also will the new property have a copper phone line or is it totally FTTP? If no copper phone line then your parents will need to use either VOIP or if with BT - FVA - (Voice Access over Fibre)

List of all ISPs on Openreach website for FTTP
https://www.homeandwork.openreach.co.uk/fibre-broadb...

Edited by deleted (Mon 20-Feb-17 21:36:32)

IDNet prices https://www.idnet.net/data_products/broadband_prices...

Terabyte Packages (1000GB Download Allowance)

FTTP Only

A phone line is not required for FTTP services.

FTTP 40/10 £48.60/Month

FTTP 80/20 £66.60/Month

FTTP 220/20 £96.60/Month

FTTP 330/30 £120.60/Month

In reply to a post by lee111s:

BT, AAISP and Zen.

You wish to avoid BT but they tend to be the cheapest.

You don't have to take Infinity 4, you can still take their lower tier Infinity 1 (55/10) and Infinity 2 (80/20) services on FTTP.

Agreed, they just need to work out the minimum speed that they would be happy with and the price for that service, if at a later date and its just not enough on what they chose back then, just phone the ISP and upgrade to the next one up, they might even get a better deal.

Like you said there is 3 providers that support FTTP for the home, however there are 8 providers if it was to be a business connection.

As for the OP avoiding BT, while I have to admit we have had loads of issues while being with BT, they do however resolve the issue faster when you make a complaint to the right people at BT.

So overall even though I have had problems with BT I would still give them an 7-8 out of 10 and they are not that bad.

Saying that, if we didn't go with BT I would of gone with Zen due to we had absolutely no issues when we had ADSL via them before my brother took Zen with him when he moved out.

Sadly Zen prices are on the steep side when you increase in speed.

But at the end of the day its all down to who the OP parents choose.

I myself is happy with my service that I receive at the moment from BT, maybe this will change later on down the line (BAD PUN)

Paul

Missed that, thanks.

Edited by billford (Mon 20-Feb-17 21:45:07)

An FTTP connection should be more reliable than a DSL one, so you might not have to contact the likes of BT Retail very often should you decide to use them.

In reply to a post by georgelnx:

Marcus

Are you sure that the property will have BTW FTTP?
Some developers have installed FTTP not using the BTW network so the homeowner has no choice of ISP but must use the one who installed FTTP for the developer.

A good, and important question.

A builder who has installed the infrastructure specified by for FTTP by Openreach in a large document is in my opinion unlikely to have told the customer or their selling agent if different that it will have FTTH.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

An FTTP connection should be more reliable than a DSL one, so you might not have to contact the likes of BT Retail very often should you decide to use them.

This is true, since FTTP was installed here and it went live, the only time I have had to contact BT was when I thought I was being capped.

But it turns out the Smart Hub had been up and running for about a month and had a hissy fit and dropped the Link Speed on Ethernet Port 1 that connects to my LAN from 1Gbit to 100Mbit the rest of my LAN was still 1Gbit apart from the one port, so it was easily missed.

Its a shame I realised that 15 mins before the engineer turned up, I did every other checks and tests known to man, even the FTTH Faults team at BT thought there was a fault, hence the engineer booking.

But that has been the only time I had to contact BT since the install.

So overall I think they are ok.

Paul

Hi,

Since you've had the BT 330/30 service for a while (some might even call you a FTTP 'veteran'!) I've got some questions regarding this - I'm getting the Openreach 330/30 FTTPoD service installed in a few months through Fluidata:

1) Are you able to login to the ONT unit via your router to see any kind of connection stats (eg sync rate) on your FTTP service?

2) What speeds do you get in speedtests? I guess something like ~ 300/25 after overheads are taken into account?

3) I guess there's no such thing as DLM on FTTP and you can turn on/off your router a trillion times each day without messing up your connection?

4) I know the Backup Battery Unit (BBU) is primarily there to provide power to your FVA service in case of a power cut but once the OR bod has installed this, can you just bin the BBU and just connect the ONT direct to mains power? Or perhaps you would be breaking OR t&c's by doing this?

5) Finally, how easy was it to move over your copper based tel no over to your FVA line? I'm going to let my FTTC service run alongside my FTTP service for a few months but eventually i plan on ceasing my full LLU copper line and porting the tel no over to the FVA line. With TalkTalk/BT/Openreach/Fluidata involved I can expect a lot of fun & games (ie next to impossible for a LLU copper>FVA tel number migration)

Cheers

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Feb-17 06:17:22)

No, you can't log in to the ONTE, and if you could there is no 'sync' to be seen. You get whichever service your CP is providing.

My observations re speeds are that the upstream seen on BTw based FTTP services is always a shade over the profile speed i.e. Whereas my 20 meg upstream on FTTC gets me around 18 meg throughput, were it FTTP I'd be seeing a tad over twenty.

In Paul's post he mentions the only problem he has had as been with his equipment, this has been my experience too, any speed related faults I have attended have always been due to internal stuff, wireless or router issues.

Does your chosen FTTP ISP offer an FVA service ? I am of the opinion that FVA isn't available to those using FTTPoD.

Thanks. I'm pretty sure Fluidata said i could have a BTw based voice service running over the FoD service, but I will check with them again as I may have misunderstood them - perhaps they meant they could take over my TalkTalk Business copper line with a voice only service. Anyway a FVA service isn't an absolute must for me right now, I have the option of keeping my copper line active just for voice.

Fair enough.

You asked also about the BBU, it is possible for remote monitoring to detect that the ONTE isn't connected to one ....... Not an actual issue, but maybe if you use a PSU for the router as well it might make you able to continue working during a power outage.

And the phone he seems to need, if he does at some stage get FVA due to policy or FTTPoD capability changes. Or would the phone equipment itself also get power from the BBU, not just the ONT?

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 21-Feb-17 08:33:17)

The BBU just powers the ONTE Bob, end of. So gonna need an 'old fashioned' corded handset to make calls during an outage.

It's purpose is to allow 999 calls to be made at such times, despite most having mobile phones these days, Ofcom still seem insistent that this service is provided.

Or a DECT phone on the UPS you suggested? That was what I meant .

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 21-Feb-17 08:45:51)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I am of the opinion that FVA isn't available to those using FTTPoD.

Sorry I forgot to ask, is this down to technical reasons? If not, then worst case scenario I should be able to have a FVA after the minimum 3 year contract on FoD is complete in which case my service is treated the same as a native FTTP connection. I plan on getting the ONT located next to my existing master phone socket so it would be just be a very short hook-up required between the 2 if/when I am able to order FVA.

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Feb-17 08:52:39)

I have had my FTTP in for 4 years now and only had 1 bad experience with reliability.
That was when the FTTP card in the exchange went bad which affected all 32 users on it and it took best part of 3 months to get it fixed.
The symptoms were the download speed dropping to 5Mbps, massive packet loss and then speed ramping up over a 24 hour period. The users were spread across different ISPs too.
The time it took to fix was due to was getting Openreach to believe that the issue was at the exchange.
That aside, I've had no other issues with the technology, just the usual ISP ones which you will never escape from (Plusnet in my case)

edit: to clear misunderstanding about ISPs.

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Feb-17 15:13:10)

In all honesty, I don't know.

I doubt it's technically not possible, more likely a billing type issue, or CP's not wanting to have to give additional training to support staff. This is just based on my (very) limited experience of working on oD.

What does your chosen CP say ?

Although I don't have FVA (as Plusnet don't support it), when the ONT was installed the engineer did fit the FVA faceplate and wired it in so as to future proof the property. There is a switch on the faceplate to switch between fibre and copper.
Might be worth asking for it to be installed when the ONT goes in.

In reply to a post by georgelnx:

I have had my FTTP in for 4 years now and only had 1 bad experience with reliability.
That was when the FTTP card in the exchange went bad which affected all 32 users on it and it took best part of 3 months to get it fixed.
The symptoms were the download speed dropping to 5Mbps, massive packet loss and then speed ramping up over a 24 hour period. The users were all with different ISPs too.

You are saying there are 32 or more FTTP-supplying ISPs? To say that, presumably from somewhere you have a list, which is what the Subject is asking for .

No Bob, he is saying the fault affected all 32 users on the splitter node I believe.

Ah, maybe that too, but he specifically said, (my bold), "the FTTP card in the exchange went bad which affected all 32 users on it and it took best part of 3 months to get it fixed.
The symptoms were the download speed dropping to 5Mbps, massive packet loss and then speed ramping up over a 24 hour period. The users were all with different ISPs too".

Even less likely that 32 FTTP-supplying ISPs were on a single splitter. I question the poster's statement about the different ISPs, but if he is correct a list from him would be useful to loads of people .

There will be some rarely mentioned ones of course, usually business user specialists.

As this is a new build it is likely that there will be no copper into the building and therefore ordering ADSL will nit be an option. In that case you can rule PlusNet out. If you do not have copper then the phone will also be supplied through the fibre as well through FVA which is another thing that PlusNet will not do.

So you need to be sure that you know exactly what you are getting and then make sure that any provider can supply everything that you need. BT may be one of your only options.

I have been with BT since I had my FTTP installed and have had no issues. I am only on the Infinity 2 80/20 option. I did not need the need for the higher speeds of Infinity 3/4.

I think it's more the cost for Openreach to test it, build it and then have the systems to support it. The cost x income is surely not going to be there.

A lot of people don't realise how much Openreach spend (in terms of time and money) on the development and IT side of things.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Does your chosen FTTP ISP offer an FVA service ? I am of the opinion that FVA isn't available to those using FTTPoD.

Yep, not available for FoD or if you're on a ECI OLT.

IIRC Plusnet did sort out supplying FTTP to fibre-only new builds, a year or possibly two years ago. Though you are right they seem not to want to do it except through prior ADSLx where that is available.

Presumably the trial system for Plusnet FTTP is now routine, but the fibre-only site order has to be done manually by the only person they employ who knows how to do it successfully, and that person is completely over-loaded with other work they have for similar reasons. ...

....... And still no FVA from them either.

I am still at a loss to understand why the likes of Sky and TT don't have FTTP based offerings ?

Fibre only new build estates are starting to become commonplace, why deny yourselves revenue ??

In reply to a post by georgelnx:

when the ONT was installed the engineer did fit the FVA faceplate and wired it in so as to future proof the property. There is a switch on the faceplate to switch between fibre and copper.
Might be worth asking for it to be installed when the ONT goes in.

Thanks, that's an excellent tip....and I will be ready to 'bribe' the OR Engineer with an unlimited supply of cream cakes & freshly brewed coffee/tea

Have spoken to Fluidata again, they said they've never heard of FVA but can supply a VOIP service over the fibre line. They're happy to enquire this with OR so I've sent them details of FVA, but as others have said, it appears FVA isn't available for FoD connections (yet?). But I'll try to get my master socket future proofed at least.

Yep, not available for FoD

I got something right

Any explanation as to why Andy ?

Interesting, thank you.

Technically speaking, FVA isn't a fully launched commercial product yet also:

Fibre Voice Access (FVA) is currently in Early Market Deployment Launch and available where Huawei technology is deployed*. FVA will enable you to deliver a PSTN quality voice service to your customers over fibre by connecting the fibre access via Cablelink/Backhaul to your SIP Server developed to the industry signalling specification ND1033. It does this by having an Analogue Telephony Adaptor (ATA) built into the Optical Network Termination (ONT) device at the customer's premises. The ATA interface can support two analogue telephony ports, so any existing analogue telephony equipment and home wiring can be connected to it.

(Note FVA is not available on bandwidths over 330 Mbt/s or on Fibre on Demand)

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Feb-17 10:32:59)

Yeap am finding blocks of 50 to 60 premises with FTTP as I go through the new build of the last 12 months and reconcile the number of premises figures.

Unfortunately its not all new build, but there is competition to serve new builds so the presumption is those developers not bothering have done so for a reason or just lack of engagement

LOL Andy.

That sounds remarkably like getting (IIRC) two analogue lines plus the two digital channels out of ISDN 2, a thousand years ago .

Is "21 CN" voice still a pipe-dream?

Hearsay from a planner said any new build estate over 30 properties is automatically offered FTTP as first choice, but as you know, if accepted down to the developers.

With decent internet fast becoming the fourth utility isn't it time it's roll out wasn't governed by those whose only goal is to seek to make money from it ....

Thank you for the info.

That sounds remarkably like getting (IIRC) two analogue lines plus the two digital channels out of ISDN 2, a thousand years ago

Ah yes, Home Highway [spits]

That's the one. I had it at my office. Until 512kbps broadband came along.

The joy of politics...

If you want wired phones a Cisco SPA112 would give your two sockets, alternatively a Gigaset N300IP would work with the Gigaset Dect phones. You should be able to port your landline number to Voiphone, who have a well deserved reputation for being helpful.
Sipgate are another possibility.

21CN voice exists, it's just the final mile (Openreach) end that doesn't.

SOGEA is on its way, despite some large ISPs not wanting it...

Indeed, and what an exceptionally deep joy that is as well.

I think you mis-read the post...

32 consumers fed from the same hardware. Not a specific ISP issue as the users affected were on a mix of providers.

Not 32 end users, each on a different ISP

Pardon?

Ignoring the fact the poster probably means a splitter, as that simply makes the strange post even less probable, cutting out verbiage we get ""the FTTP card in the exchange went bad which affected all 32 users on it. The users were all with different ISPs too".

How you get from that to suggesting I misread it is baffling. Methinks it is you not reading the original or my queries about it properly.

Okay Robertos, I think you knew I meant that the users were spread across multiple ISPs (not 32 separate ISPs).
I know that some of the others were on BT Retail (as their forums showed at the time and where I elicited help and support to get this fixed) and I am with Plusnet.

As to whether you believe it or not, it did happen and was publically discussed at the time. I had some assistance from a nice chap called Andy on this forum and Plusnet's who help to discover the issue was a cross ISP one.

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Feb-17 15:15:38)

No. I assumed you were simply wrong. What you said was clear, as I have pointed out three times. It could not be true, but what you meant to say is completely impossible to guess.

At no point have I disputed that some piece of kit with 32 users became faulty, or any of the rest of the tale. Only that the 32 users were all on different ISPs.

You now in effect say assorted or various ISPs. I've no quibble at all with either of those.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Hi,

Since you've had the BT 330/30 service for a while (some might even call you a FTTP 'veteran'!) I've got some questions regarding this - I'm getting the Openreach 330/30 FTTPoD service installed in a few months through Fluidata:

Well I wouldn't say I was a FTTP veteran, but I have had it for a few months now.
Like most if not all your questions have already been ordered.

Not really sure on the differences between FTTP and FTTPoD apart from the cost.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

1) Are you able to login to the ONT unit via your router to see any kind of connection stats (eg sync rate) on your FTTP service?

Not that I am aware of.
I am hoping soon to ditch the Smart Hub and have my Linux Box connect to the WAN Port on the ONT and handle the PPPoE comunication, so maybe that would have some speed information, but not too sure.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

2) What speeds do you get in speedtests? I guess something like ~ 300/25 after overheads are taken into account?

Well it depends on the time of the day.
From 02:00 to 15:00 - 16:30 I get this speed.
From 15:00 - 16:30 to 02:00 I get this speed (just did this test a few mins ago)

The only issue I have with Infinity 4 is that BT won't treat it as a speed fault until it drops below 40Mbps where as Infinity 1 only had to drop to 20Mbps for it to become a speed fault.

But I have only seen it drop down to 47Mbps a few times but it normally drops down to between 150Mbps and 200Mbps due to congestion so overall not too bad, plus I moved from a very unstable 2.5Mbps to 5.5Mbps ADSLx connection so still better than before

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

3) I guess there's no such thing as DLM on FTTP and you can turn on/off your router a trillion times each day without messing up your connection?

Nope, I have when I first got FTTP moved about the Smart Hub loads of times and I mean loads of times trying to get the best location in the home for the Wi-Fi and after 20 to 30 tries I gave up and connected it back up to where it was at the start, by the ONT.

All through the moving about I got no speed change what so ever.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

4) I know the Backup Battery Unit (BBU) is primarily there to provide power to your FVA service in case of a power cut but once the OR bod has installed this, can you just bin the BBU and just connect the ONT direct to mains power? Or perhaps you would be breaking OR t&c's by doing this?

This I don't know.

I do know when the engineer was installing the ONT he asked me if I wanted the BBU connected due to the FVA install wasn't on his list.

So my understanding of that was if your not getting FVA you don't need the BBU and is the reason why it doesn't get installed all the time.

I explained to him all the issues we had on our copper line and that the FTTP was to have everything moved off the copper line, where the engineer was happy to install the BBU.

I wasn't too sure if he had any FVA Faceplates due to he told me to swap the wires in the NTE5A Master Socket (A, B Pins) from the copper line to the new cable he installed.

He made it clear to do it when the TEL1 is flashing or lighting up.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

5) Finally, how easy was it to move over your copper based tel no over to your FVA line? I'm going to let my FTTC service run alongside my FTTP service for a few months but eventually i plan on ceasing my full LLU copper line and porting the tel no over to the FVA line. With TalkTalk/BT/Openreach/Fluidata involved I can expect a lot of fun & games (ie next to impossible for a LLU copper>FVA tel number migration)

Well if you have the FVA Faceplate installed and the TEL1 light is flashing of lighting up, if I recall you just switch the little switch in the new face plate from copper to fibre and dial 142 599 while switched over on the fibre, you will hear an automated message with options, so listen carefully and choose the options.

I have only really had just the one issue since I have had fibre and that was a silly issue that caught me and the FTTP Faults team at BT.

This issue was my Smart Hub had been connected for about a month and had a hissy fit and dropped the Ethernet Link Speed between the Smart Hub and my LAN from 1Gbit down to 100Mbit.

So the guy at BT thought it was a fault and so did myself, lucky I knew the engineer that was sent and they were happy to sign it off as resolved and move onto their next job.

Thats it really.

Paul

Thanks Paul, very useful info.

I just hope I don't suffer significant speed drops at peak times on my service but if i do, I'm confident Fluidata will fight my corner as they seem to have very impressive support stats (I will be on the standard 24hr SLA)
http://www.fluidone.com/support/

I will be using my own high end Asus or Netgear router connected to the ONT unit so don't expect any hardware issues on my side, unless the router goes belly up completely.

Now just have to wait 2-4 weeks for the FoD site survey to be done, hopefully no hiccups occur and the installation will go ahead in the estimated timescale & cost

Edited by deleted (Wed 22-Feb-17 06:11:52)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Thanks Paul, very useful info.

I just hope I don't suffer significant speed drops at peak times on my service but if i do, I'm confident Fluidata will fight my corner as they seem to have very impressive support stats (I will be on the standard 24hr SLA)
http://www.fluidone.com/support/

I will be using my own high end Asus or Netgear router connected to the ONT unit so don't expect any hardware issues on my side, unless the router goes belly up completely.

Now just have to wait 2-4 weeks for the FoD site survey to be done, hopefully no hiccups occur and the installation will go ahead in the estimated timescale & cost

Well its hit and miss to do with the speed drop at peak times, there isn't much you can do if it drops from 300 down to 100 or even 50Mbps, its not a fault its just BT's network getting congested, I would assume it would be the same for any provider that uses BTs network.

Well the Smart Hub isn't that bad to be honest, I have had worse, but when I have done enough reading up on how to setup a secure router on Linux I will do it

Well lets hope it all goes to plan, I know we had build issues, which I won't get into

How far are you from your nearest Node?

Not too sure if its the nearest Aggregation Node and they install a new Splitter Node, or they connect you to the nearest already installed Splitter Node.

I know my road has 2 Splitter Nodes.

So fingers crossed it all goes to plan

Paul

According to the initial BT/OR estimate my property is located in Band D, which is 600-800m away from the nearest fibre aggregation node (as the crow flies) but obviously this will only be confirmed after the site survey.

No idea if there's already a splitter node in place, I imagine the aggregation node would be somewhere along this road:
https://goo.gl/rTK1x9

I'm guessing they will try to use existing underground ducts to lay the fibre where possible but Fluidata told me a common problem they came across on previous FoD orders was blocked u/g ducts which took a while to clear

Btw what is the cabling distance from the point where the fibre enters your building to your ONT? In my case that will be ~5m and it should follow the skirting boards and around 1 door which will mean 90 degrees bends are required, however I read somewhere that internal fibre cabling cannot be installed at angles of 90 degrees or less....

Edited by deleted (Wed 22-Feb-17 08:20:36)

What makes you think it's congestion in the BT network?

On the standard 330/30, BT Wholesale plan their network to provide a minimum throughput of 40Mbit/s. With the elevated 330/30, it's increased to 70Mbit/s. That doesn't mean that they expect speeds to drop that low, it's just how they plan/build their network.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

1) Are you able to login to the ONT unit via your router to see any kind of connection stats (eg sync rate) on your FTTP service?

I assume it's possible, I just don't think there are enough people to have tried to see how locked down the ONT is. If you're on a Huawei headend, it's an EchoLife HG8240.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

5) Finally, how easy was it to move over your copper based tel no over to your FVA line? I'm going to let my FTTC service run alongside my FTTP service for a few months but eventually i plan on ceasing my full LLU copper line and porting the tel no over to the FVA line. With TalkTalk/BT/Openreach/Fluidata involved I can expect a lot of fun & games (ie next to impossible for a LLU copper>FVA tel number migration)

FoD does not support FVA - no ISP can place an order for this.

There is nothing stopping you using your own VoIP solution though.

When you say "elevated 330/30", do you mean a business grade 330/30 FTTP (or FoD) service?

Edited by deleted (Wed 22-Feb-17 09:52:29)

Btw what is the cabling distance from the point where the fibre enters your building to your ONT? In my case that will be ~5m and it should follow the skirting boards and around 1 door which will mean 90 degrees bends are required, however I read somewhere that internal fibre cabling cannot be installed at angles of 90 degrees or less....

The maximum length, at present, for the CSP to ONTE kits is 30m, and as for the bends, it will, but I always try to keep them as gentle as possible as clearly they add to the overall loss. Oh, and ask the installer to use cleats on this, staples are quicker, but I have seen several faults caused by them.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

What makes you think it's congestion in the BT network?

On the standard 330/30, BT Wholesale plan their network to provide a minimum throughput of 40Mbit/s. With the elevated 330/30, it's increased to 70Mbit/s. That doesn't mean that they expect speeds to drop that low, it's just how they plan/build their network.

I am only going by what BT told me when I questioned the speed drop down to 47Mbps at peak time.
Or was the wording contention, I forget now.

As for the minimum of 40Mbps I was not told of any minimum speeds neither was I told an up to speed when I ordered it over the phone.

When I ordered I told the ordering team that I would like to upgrade from ADSL2+ to Infinity 4, they did some checks and asked if I wanted the phone line also moved over also to fibre and I said yes.

They then said, ok, so that's Infinity 4 "300Mbps", moving the line and the Smart Hub, and then gave the engineer dates, he never mentioned any up to or minimal speeds to me on the phone.

That was why it was a shock when I first saw it, its not really an issue due to its only dropped down to 47Mbps twice since we have had it.

Paul

BT Wholesale provide an 'elevated' downstream throughput option (usually around £10 a month) which gives traffic a higher prioritisation over the SVLAN (between the BRAS and ISP handover point).

I have no idea whether this is value for money or not.

Have had FVA for nearly 5 years in June

It's been in EMD for at least 3 years of that time

Time really it becomes a full retail product

More than happy with the service however