FVA BTFTTP

Random question which may be of interest to others is are BT keeping FVA?
A link here shows the new modem is smaller without BBU, but contains one data port and one voice?
I am assuming this means they are but with CP routers being rolled out with Voice ports this is what has brought my question, as we have FTTP with FVA (BT) as our copper line was bad so it was migrated not long after the FTTP installation in 2016
PSTN Openreach Switch off
Openreach Mini OLT FTTP

At a guess, it will be kept .... but used for �special cases� ... the norm will be, if you request a voice service from your CP, it will be via a PSTN jack on the back of the router.

This isn�t just an FTTP thing, it�s already out there on SOGEA lines.

It�s all part of the groundswell towards switching off PSTN in 2025

Things are changing ...

I discovered on Wednesday that BT Business website is now offering primarily "digital phone" on its superfast fibre deals, with the "analogue" version a bit lower down.

(That's deals that cease tonight but I expect something similar will appears soon after).

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

A link here shows the new modem is smaller without BBU, but contains one data port and one voice?

I read that the "new" new modem would be 1+0, i.e. data port and no voice.

BT can't "keep" FVA as OpenReach have announced a stop sell from March 2020.
Existing FVA customers will eventually be migrated to BT's new Digital Voice service.
There will be no new FVA orders after March.

BT soft launched their Digital Voice service yesterday which replaces FVA. It had been in a beta/trial period for the last 6 months or so.
They are going to gradually migrate all customers on to this from now till 2025

https://community.bt.com/t5/Landline/New-Digital-Voi...

Digital Voice is VOIP via the BT Hub's ATA port rather than the ONT's ATA port.

Previously FVA was only available to those on FTTP (as it needed the ONT).

Customers ordering FTTC or changing package via the call centre can now choose Digital Voice instead of using their PSTN line.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 31-Jan-20 20:12:12)

Sounds like a way to force people to use ISP routers. Or abandon home phone.

it�s just a little smaller (featuring one data port and one voice port)

is a quote from A Look at Openreach�s New Small FTTP Broadband ONT and Mini OLT

So if they are fasing it out then howcome the new modems will be provided with a tel port?

but yes i was thinking they will/might in the end force you to migrate to their own router which is not something id like to do, so may have to look into migrating to a sip/voip provider

The ONT is identical to that found in the previous ONT & BBU housing.

I suspect it will he kept for a while, there are instances of folk only having the voice service delivered via the ONT, no broadband hence no router required

The most recently announced ONT has no telephone port.

As mentioned previously OpenReach won't sell any FVA after Match 2020.

Ya live, ya learn.

What do you make of the Salisbury announcement ?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Sounds like a way to force people to use ISP routers. Or abandon home phone.

Well I will be using their Ethernet version of it that gets plugged into one of the LAN Ports, there is no way I am using a BT Hub.

Also how would forcing a customer to use an ISP Router for a voice service work if the voice service is with another provider.

I think an Ethernet based VoIP version would be the best route.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I think an Ethernet based VoIP version would be the best route.

yes. A separate ATA such as Cisco�s offerings would be ideal, but you get the issues of remote management and NAT and QoS then.

A separate VLAN at the OLT would make sense. In the ISP supplied router is horrible for end user choice.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The ONT is identical to that found in the previous ONT & BBU housing.

Even the Huawei model number is the same, worth noting the new Nokia ONT (rebadged for Openreach) is a 1+0

Could it be that a voice service is seen as an �also ran� .... most people use their mobile for voice entirely now.

Recently moved to FTTP and the copper landline is gone and now on VoIP. There is a port on the ONT but we've just arranged the VoIP ourselves and that port is unused. We have VoIP just to have a 'local' landline number, it gets very little use however.

I agree, I think most people will move to mobiles only come 2025. Even where someone might have no or little mobile signal that is becoming less and less of an issue now as more and more mobiles will do Voice over Wi-Fi, which is basically VoIP. So in that situation getting a VoIP phone gives you nothing extra. If the Internet goes down, you've lost the VoIP phone and any chance of using your mobile as well over Wi-Fi, having the landline will not be the backup it once was. Of course many people aren't going to understand this and will probably end up paying for a service in the belief it is a 'landline' of old.

Regarding NAT and the problems that often brings, well these issues should be disappearing fast with IPv6. Our VoIP connected up to the provider over IPv6, no NAT involved of course. Granted there will be issues for many though, VoIP is nowhere near as straight forward as just plugging a telephone in.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Could it be that a voice service is seen as an �also ran� .... most people use their mobile for voice entirely now.

Of course. You�ll see that yourself in your job, but at the moment it is still something the CPs feel they need to provide.

I have BT Digital Voice, I wouldn�t bother if it was an add on because if there�s a power cut it would stop working anyway. That was always my argument for having voice service via the landline.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Could it be that a voice service is seen as an �also ran� .... most people use their mobile for voice entirely now.

I am one of those. Had a landline for 20 years, required for DSL. Now I've moved to cable, I have moved the landline number to a very cheap VoIP service to retain inbound calling from anyone. If I move house, I will drop it, as due to work I have two mobiles on two networks (!)

"VoIP is nowhere near as straight forward as just plugging a telephone in"

While the case for handsets and ATA people self source, this does not apply to the ones such as BT Digital Voice i.e. where they provide a phone port on the router, since they've spent the time making sure it is plug and speak

In reply to a post by Icaras:

I have BT Digital Voice, I wouldn�t bother if it was an add on because if there�s a power cut it would stop working anyway. That was always my argument for having voice service via the landline.

Landline during a power cut only works of course if you know where your standby handset is . And at night know where a torch is �blindly� or have the one on your mobile easily switched on. And remember to bother when your cooker or microwave just stopped mid-cook.

Now if everyone who has reason to ring you only has your mobile number the problem goes completely away. If it is adequately charged at all times ....

We�re doomed, I tell you. LOL

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

"VoIP is nowhere near as straight forward as just plugging a telephone in"

While the case for handsets and ATA people self source, this does not apply to the ones such as BT Digital Voice i.e. where they provide a phone port on the router, since they've spent the time making sure it is plug and speak

Although you still have to sort out your extension wiring.

� Although you still have to sort out your extension wiring.�

Except .... who actually uses extension wiring these days ... since a cordless handset, IF you use a phone, is de rigueur these days.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The ONT is identical to that found in the previous ONT & BBU housing.

Even the Huawei model number is the same, worth noting the new Nokia ONT (rebadged for Openreach) is a 1+0

Sorry just one observation, I believe the Huawei no longer has a BBU connector (use to be second from right) so anyone thinking of sourcing an Openreach BBU separately will be disappointed.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

While the case for handsets and ATA people self source, this does not apply to the ones such as BT Digital Voice i.e. where they provide a phone port on the router, since they've spent the time making sure it is plug and speak

Although I see that in the announcement on the BT community forum it says:
�If you do choose to upgrade, you�ll need to swap your current home phone for our new digital home phone�.

Why wouldn�t you be able to use your existing POTS or DECT telephone with BT�s Digital Voice Service, given that the Smart Hub 2 has a phone socket specifically labelled for Digital Voice customers? I wonder why BT are saying you�ll NEED to change phones?

Edited by deleted (Sat 01-Feb-20 11:37:05)

Need to that quote in context.

No reason why any provider will need to force a specific handset on the public. This was the case with some of the early BT digital voice options a few years ago, which were really dect handsets with extra features built into them - believe other dect phones could still pair with the base station.

That was just a lead that monitored the BBU, the power supply end that fitted into the ONT is interchangeable with that on the mains power supply.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Need to that quote in context.

From http://community.bt.com/t5/Landline/New-Digital-Voic...

"If you do choose to upgrade, you�ll need to swap your current home phone for our new digital home phone. We�ll give you a choice of handsets, free with your upgrade."

I wonder why BT need to force a specific handset on the public to use their DIgital Voice service?

Edited by deleted (Sat 01-Feb-20 12:52:51)

Still believe the phone socket on the router will work if you want to plug in a preferred handset.

Believe the BT handsets will connect over wireless and thus support the higher bit rates that give the better call quality, rather than the limited frequencies from traditional phone lines - which the phone socket would otherwise be.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Believe the BT handsets will connect over wireless and thus support the higher bit rates that give the better call quality, rather than the limited frequencies from traditional phone lines - which the phone socket would otherwise be.

That makes sense. Although I do wonder if we�re going to see each ISP providing their own versions of an internet phone in an attempt to keep you captive to their service. BT seem to be setting a precedent here.

Edited by deleted (Sat 01-Feb-20 13:20:30)

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Believe the BT handsets will connect over wireless and thus support the higher bit rates that give the better call quality, rather than the limited frequencies from traditional phone lines - which the phone socket would otherwise be.

That makes sense. Although I do wonder if we�re going to see each ISP providing their own versions of an internet phone in an attempt to keep you captive to their service. BT seem to be setting a precedent here.

The new BT Hub and new Sky Hub both do VOIP instead of using the PSTN line.
The both have standard ATA ports and should work with any old telephone.

From experience the Sky version definitely works with any old telephone.

If BT have gone down the "you need a new handset route" then that is a shame

Edited by j0hn83 (Sat 01-Feb-20 13:46:09)

a question about faults, how will consumers know they have a copper line fault for FTTC, GFast etc when there is no voice side to do 17070 test? as surely if the line keeps dropping sync you will lose the phone whereas pstn would still perhaps get through albeit crackly etc..
So how will faults be identified on Digital lines only?

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

If BT have gone down the "you need a new handset route" then that is a shame

Maybe it is because they don't have (or currently have) the facility to remotely setup VoIP on the BT Hubs after they've been shipped, so to make it simple they are sending new phones so that they can be sent pre-configured. Not ideal though, given some people may want to use their existing phones. I know of at least one elderly relative that would not be able to use those phones due to poor eyesight and that they need a large button phone.

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

a question about faults, how will consumers know they have a copper line fault for FTTC, GFast etc when there is no voice side to do 17070 test? as surely if the line keeps dropping sync you will lose the phone whereas pstn would still perhaps get through albeit crackly etc..
So how will faults be identified on Digital lines only?

A different suite of tests ...

In reply to a post by E300:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

If BT have gone down the "you need a new handset route" then that is a shame

Maybe it is because they don't have (or currently have) the facility to remotely setup VoIP on the BT Hubs after they've been shipped, so to make it simple they are sending new phones so that they can be sent pre-configured. Not ideal though, given some people may want to use their existing phones. I know of at least one elderly relative that would not be able to use those phones due to poor eyesight and that they need a large button phone.

It's an ATA port, analogue telephone adapter.

I'd be very very surprised if a traditional analogue telephone didn't work on the BT digital Voice service via the BT Hub.

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

a question about faults, how will consumers know they have a copper line fault for FTTC, GFast etc when there is no voice side to do 17070 test? as surely if the line keeps dropping sync you will lose the phone whereas pstn would still perhaps get through albeit crackly etc..
So how will faults be identified on Digital lines only?

17070 is, was and always has been a simple quiet line test to prove the landline is working clearly.
The ISP has always had their own tests to check for copper line faults.

The 17070 test is pretty pointless/useless without having a traditional landline to check.

The E-Side cables between the FTTC/G.Fast cabinets and the exchange remain connected despite no longer being used for Voice or broadband.
This allows the ISP to run the same tests on the line as before.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

It's an ATA port, analogue telephone adapter.

I'd be very very surprised if a traditional analogue telephone didn't work on the BT digital Voice service via the BT Hub.

Not saying it couldn't work, but the Hub would need the SIP server details and user name and password before the ATA port became live.

Edited by E300 (Sat 01-Feb-20 15:32:16)

17070 is, was and always has been a simple quiet line test to prove the landline is working clearly.

.... useful to identify the DN

BT manage to setup their Hub's to use a generic username/password for all customers to establish a PPP session.

I would expect the exact same from their VOIP service.

They may use something like TR-069 to populate this automatically when a line goes live but BT usually go down the plug and play route with everything preconfigured.

There are a number of users on here using BT's new Digital Voice service.
I'm sure someone will be happy to connect an analogue telephone to find out.

The beta/trial didn't make any mention of a specific handset.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

They may use something like TR-069 to populate this automatically when a line goes live but BT usually go down the plug and play route with everything preconfigured.

That's funny, preconfigured would mean they would have had the foresight sometime ago to set up all the hubs just in case, even before they started BETA testing. I can't see that happening can you.

Yes like you said and I did, they should be able to remotely configure the hubs (TR-069), but we are just speculating here that perhaps there is some technical reason they have not been able to do is, hence sending out actual new phones.

There are a number of users on here using BT's new Digital Voice service.

Be interesting to find out, if it is live, begs the question why are they sending out new VoIP phones?

Its not rocket science since BT Consumer can remotely update the firmware and enable and configure features that were previously disabled.

Why new phones, because if you want all the features such as high quality digital voice you will need the new handsets.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Its not rocket science since BT Consumer can remotely update the firmware and enable and configure features that were previously disabled.

Why new phones, because if you want all the features such as high quality digital voice you will need the new handsets.

Do we know what codec they are using for VoIP HD voice?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Why new phones, because if you want all the features such as high quality digital voice you will need the new handsets.

Is there some sort of standard for these new digital handsets? Or is it going to prove really difficult to switch providers if every provider requires you to use their specific type of handset?

In reply to a post by cjgpers:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Why new phones, because if you want all the features such as high quality digital voice you will need the new handsets.

Is there some sort of standard for these new digital handsets? Or is it going to prove really difficult to switch providers if every provider requires you to use their specific type of handset?

In theory VoIP (SIP) is a standard and has been around for quite a long time and any VoIP type phone usually can be configured to work with any type of VoIP service.

The trouble is if someone supplies the phone already pre-configured, then it could be they have also locked it down to stop someone from re-configuring it to work elsewhere, and/or to avoid support calls should someone play about and break it. In the case of BT Digital Voice the phone is offered for 'free' so I'd expect it to be locked down. How locked down? Perhaps someone can have a look and let us know.

Edited by E300 (Sat 01-Feb-20 16:50:56)

No

Providers will offer standard phone socket ports, so if you don't want their handset you can use any standard phone you buy on the high street, be that corded or DECT with its own base station.

What you won't get is the software enhancements that are specific to that suppliers handset.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Now if everyone who has reason to ring you only has your mobile number the problem goes completely away. If it is adequately charged at all times ....

We�re doomed, I tell you. LOL

See that's the issue, whenever we have had a power cut here in our area, it has also taken out a few phone cell towers, so we have had absolutely no way to make or receive phone calls.

Where as at the moment with FVA + BBU along with an old wired phone then we do.

SO what ever route BT take it will require a BBU and a device to make the call if needed.

Paul

In my Home town EE/3 Mast in same location as Voda/O2 goes down in power outage whereas Voda/O2 Stays online for approx 2/3 hours with full signal, EE/3 mast blatantly has no battery backup whereas O2/Voda do according to pictures of inside their cabinets online

why would the EE/3 Mbnl mast not have Battery backup whereas the Voda/O2 cornerstone mast does?

This could be problematic for future of calls via mobile and local area outages.

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

why would the EE/3 Mbnl mast not have Battery backup whereas the Voda/O2 cornerstone mast does?

Is there any directive that forces all UK mobile masts to have battery backup?

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

See that's the issue, whenever we have had a power cut here in our area, it has also taken out a few phone cell towers, so we have had absolutely no way to make or receive phone calls.

Where as at the moment with FVA + BBU along with an old wired phone then we do.

SO what ever route BT take it will require a BBU and a device to make the call if needed.

Paul

Also a must for areas with no mobile coverage.

We get about four or five power cuts a year due to damage to the long length of overhead cabling into our village. The village is on the Northumberland Coastal Walk and we regularly have people falling and requiring medical assistance while on the Walk. If it happens while we have a power-cut we can currently use a wired hand-set to call for assistance (or even the BT payphone box which has been retained specifically to mitigate the risk of being out of contact). If the hard-wired option disappears there will be no way for anyone living/staying in the village or walking through to summon the emergency services.

The PSTN *is* being phased out, and in a few years there will no longer be analogue lines which are powered from the exchange. Your landline connection *will* be digital, whether it's FTTP or VDSL/ADSL.

However, you can always install a small UPS to power your ONT and router.

In parallel with this, mobile coverage is being increased, so the problem of being unable to make calls during power cuts affects fewer and fewer people. Meanwhile, things like VHF radios still exist for emergency coverage in the most remote areas.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

The PSTN *is* being phased out, and in a few years there will no longer be analogue lines which are powered from the exchange. Your landline connection *will* be digital, whether it's FTTP or VDSL/ADSL.

However, you can always install a small UPS to power your ONT and router.

In parallel with this, mobile coverage is being increased, so the problem of being unable to make calls during power cuts affects fewer and fewer people. Meanwhile, things like VHF radios still exist for emergency coverage in the most remote areas.

All fine and dandy but still doesn't explain how an ordinary person living in an area with no mobile reception will be able to contact the emergency services unless they install extra kit at their own expense compared with what happens now. If that is the case will we see the telecom providers offering reduced prices to people living in such areas. We can all probably work out the answer to that one.

But �telecoms providers� didn�t make that person live in that location did they ?

If I chose to go trekking off into the jungle, should I be taking telecoms companies to task for not providing a service I deem sufficient there ?

There have always been special provisions for "vulnerable" people. No doubt in a few cases BT will end up installing a home UPS at BT's expense.

I'm not sure that's the same as the situation previously raised: it was an area where

1. power lines are frequently cut by the weather (although apparently not comms lines); and
2. mobile coverage is non-existent; and
3. it is visited by walkers who need rescuing.

Remove any one of those three conditions and the problem goes away. I suspect that condition (2) will be gone in a few years. If not, then installing a home UPS solves (1). If BT provides the payphone specifically for rescue callouts, then I would expect they would install a UPS when they switch it to digital.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But �telecoms providers� didn�t make that person live in that location did they ?

If I chose to go trekking off into the jungle, should I be taking telecoms companies to task for not providing a service I deem sufficient there ?

Totally different situation and not at all relevant to what we are discussing here regarding degradation of an existing service and whether that should merit a possible reduction in the charge for the service.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

1. power lines are frequently cut by the weather (although apparently not comms lines)

Not surprising; comms lines are underground from exchange a couple of miles away to the edge of the village while power is on overhead lines for several miles into the village.

Have you ever driven along country lanes?

One of the tips I was taught when learning to drive in the 1960s was that on unfamiliar roads, even many main roads, you could get a good idea of hazardous bends ahead from a glance at the path of the telegraph poles.

So more information now available at https://www.bt.com/broadband/digital-voice-learnpage/
QUOTE: � If you choose to keep your existing home phones we�ll need to send you some extra equipment, to ensure they work with your Digital Voice service.�

I wonder what �extra equipment� is needed to get an existing phone to work? There�s a phone socket on the Smart Hub 2, so presumably that doesn�t work?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Have you ever driven along country lanes?

You may have guessed from some of my posts that I live in the country. I have to drive several miles on country lanes before reaching a main road.

In addition to "We recommend that you use our Essential or Advanced Digital Home Phones, which have been specially designed to use with our Digital Voice service." it does say "You can continue to use your existing phone by plugging it into the phone port on the back of the Hub.", so possibly a VRI faceplate and BT plug to BT plug patch cable to feed the Smart Hub2 output into the extension wiring.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

You may have guessed from some of my posts that I live in the country. I have to drive several miles on country lanes before reaching a main road.

Sorry, but no. I have no idea where you live. (Though I now see by back-tracking through the thread that it is a poorly served area for "wireless" links).

But that's largely irrelevant. Despite your situation:-

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Not surprising; comms lines are underground from exchange a couple of miles away to the edge of the village while power is on overhead lines for several miles into the village.

� there are a lot of other such areas where the lines are overhead for considerable distances.

The thread is discussing the general policy, not your particular village.

For anyone interested, and who live in areas like mine where the power seems to cut out for brief periods (but quite a few times per year). The National Grid have told me quite a few times over the years that it's highly likely to be birds as they cause many of the problems within the network. Birds can cause the short term 'tripping' of the power. They say it's satety switches registering supply blips on the very high voltage network and this causes the temporarily cutting power. The result of this is power downs for a couple of seconds up to around a minute whilst the network checks itself the re-energises.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Sorry, but no. I have no idea where you live. (Though I now see by back-tracking through the thread that it is a poorly served area for "wireless" links).

Not really important, but I've made four contributions to this topic, the first of which actually tells people where I live.

The thread is discussing the general policy, not your particular village.

Indeed so, and I have given some examples where the general policy could disadvantage people living or visiting areas such as ours by quoting specific examples from our area. I expect there are other places like ours, poorly served by mobile infrastructure and which have things like defibrillators which are accessed from a cabinet with a lock requiring a key code obtained from the emergency services operator. How is that code to be obtained in a power-cut? Again a specific reference but it raises a question for the general policy.

The problem will gradually diminish as investment is made in our infrastructure but there will probably always be a few awkward cases the one-size-fits-all policy leaves gaps. How do we try and maintain what others will see as a basic service in those awkward areas?

A wired phone works straight off the PSTN socket of the SH2 using digital voice.

.

Edited by deleted (Mon 03-Feb-20 09:03:43)

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

a question about faults, how will consumers know they have a copper line fault for FTTC, GFast etc when there is no voice side to do 17070 test? as surely if the line keeps dropping sync you will lose the phone whereas pstn would still perhaps get through albeit crackly etc..
So how will faults be identified on Digital lines only?

I don�t imagine the providers could kick it out to Openreach as a voice fault.

If your voice service kept dropping/sounds garbled at times and no fault is found on a line test it would be normal procedure. Openreach would be sent out on a some kind of broadband fault.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

1. power lines are frequently cut by the weather (although apparently not comms lines)

Not surprising; comms lines are underground from exchange a couple of miles away to the edge of the village while power is on overhead lines for several miles into the village.

Another interesting point is that most exchanges have backup generators that fire up in the event of a power cut. That would keep ADSL2+ and FTTP going regardless of your provider.

However most of us are on FTTC at the moment and those cabinets will only work on batteries for half an hour or so after a power cut. As previously mentioned though this all hinges on you having a UPS in the house for the router!

Edited by deleted (Mon 03-Feb-20 09:03:26)

Not everyone chooses to live where they are born in, some cannot afford to move to somewhere less rural when they grow up, please think before you comment

Indeed-and I personally am increasingly of the opinion that we should be providing high speed broadband to everyone, no matter where they live. The money is there, we are not a poor country!

If someone wants to work from home in the middle of nowhere I feel they should be able to.

Totally agree, I'm lucky in where i live, I'm also an oldie so don't rely on just a mobile/smartphone but have dropped my fixed line telephone for a VOIP one, but luckily where I live I have only had one short power outage since I moved here in 1996, so it doesn't really affect me, like it would someone who lives in a rural area where power cables are above ground and could be cut off for days or longer.

However most of us are on FTTC at the moment and those cabinets will only work on batteries for half an hour or so after a power cut. As previously mentioned though this all hinges on you having a UPS in the house for the router!

Half an hour? They run for up to 8 hours.(entirely dependant on capacity)

My DSLAM ran for over 7 hours on the batteries.

There's a thread on kitz where a user was asking why their connection kept going down every 8 hours for 15 mins (for about 3 days).
It turned out the DSLAM had lost power. The 15 minute outage was the batteries being changed by OpenReach.

They wouldn't bother installing batteries in every single DSLAM if they lasted half an hour.

Also not all homes served by a cabinet share the same power source so UPS not always required.

Edit: I'm aware your an engineer btw. That's still not correct though.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 03-Feb-20 11:37:24)

Whilst I fully agree that all should be able to access high speed broadband wherever they have chosen to live there is still the question of the initial cost of providing that connection. How much of that cost should be born by the commercial company providing the connection (e.g. Openreach) and how much by the end user and should the state contribute and if so to what degree?

Taking another examples of infrastructure. Mains drainage, here the customer is required to pay the cost when a local authority/water board decides to provide this service in an area that previously relied on septic tanks and soakaways. Similarly when a local council decides to surface and adopt an unadopted road it is the owners of the properties along that road that are required to pay the full cost of the works.

Not an engineer now. I don�t know where I got half an hour from, that would be rubbish wouldn�t it?

7 or 8 hours is pretty decent then.

In reply to a post by MCM:

Whilst I fully agree that all should be able to access high speed broadband wherever they have chosen to live there is still the question of the initial cost of providing that connection. How much of that cost should be born by the commercial company providing the connection (e.g. Openreach) and how much by the end user and should the state contribute and if so to what degree?

Taking another examples of infrastructure. Mains drainage, here the customer is required to pay the cost when a local authority/water board decides to provide this service in an area that previously relied on septic tanks and soakaways. Similarly when a local council decides to surface and adopt an unadopted road it is the owners of the properties along that road that are required to pay the full cost of the works.

State should contribute most of it if someone is out in the sticks. But it should be done nonetheless.

Edited by deleted (Mon 03-Feb-20 20:12:09)

I take it the reason for the digital side of things is to close small exchanges that house broadband only and PSTN equipment and allow for larger exchanges with generators to serve a better service and provide power to run the Fibre feeding the areas that the small exchanges used to cover?
and if an exchange does not have an exhaust for a generator (I have seen what you are on about) how is long term power provided to run the IP equipment - battery bank?

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

I take it the reason for the digital side of things is to close small exchanges that house broadband only and PSTN equipment and allow for larger exchanges with generators to serve a better service and provide power to run the Fibre feeding the areas that the small exchanges used to cover?
and if an exchange does not have an exhaust for a generator (I have seen what you are on about) how is long term power provided to run the IP equipment - battery bank?

Well-many small and medium sized exchanges have generators.

Im not an expert in the generators so I can�t answer your question about exhausts.

UPS units (very large and very small) are used heavily in BT exchanges, but actually are often only required in the gap between a power cut and when the generator kicks in.

What I would say is that the closure of small and medium exchanges is an ambition and yes digital voice will help. But people need to remember that exchanges contain much more than just residential voice and broadband equipment. Each exchange is different so you might find a small exchange that quite simply can�t be closed as it contains equipment in there that is part of very lucrative contracts.

In reply to a post by Icaras:

Each exchange is different so you might find a small exchange that quite simply can�t be closed as it contains equipment in there that is part of very lucrative contracts.

Or indeed equipment that most don't have a clue about and others can't talk about.

For the paranoid I'm not talking about listening devices or other super secret spy stuff, I'm talking about the descendants of our early warning / relay systems. Have a Google of UKWMO and associated technologies if curious.