Speed question

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Status:
 Configured       Current
Line Status     ---     SHOWTIMELink Type       ---     Interleaved Path
Operation Mode  G992.5(ADSL2+)  G992.5(ADSL2+) 
Data Rate Information: 
Stream Type     Actual Data RateUpstream        444 (Kbps.)
Downstream      3068 (Kbps.)

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23

Operation Data          Upstream    Downstream
Noise Margin               7.9 dB       3.8 dBLine Attenuation          20.7 dB       34.0 dB

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Indicator Name           Near End Indicator     Far End Indicator
Output Power                    10.1 dBm             0.0 dBmFast Path FEC Correction        NA                   NA
Interleaved Path                53790991             0Fast Path CRC Error             NA                   NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error      1167                 0Loss of Signal Defect             0                  0
Fast Path HEC Error STR         NA                   NAInterleaved Path HEC Error      1176                 0
Error Seconds                   1054                 0

Edited by deleted (Wed 12-Sep-12 16:25:08)

Status:
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode G992.5(ADSL2+) G992.5(ADSL2+)

Data Rate Information:
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1179 (Kbps.)
Downstream 19495 (Kbps.)

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

As far as I can tell there are no extensions in the house, there's only one telephone socket.

This is the inside of the socket:

Socket

I'll post back in this thread in a couple of days with any changes.

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

I have a number of different filters, I can try them out but was wondering if I should wait a couple of days before trying anything else as XRaySpeX suggested.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If its WBC all manner of odd sync steps are possible

In reply to a post by 4M2:

...but a 3068Kbps downstream sync?

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Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State:  ConnectedInternet State:  Connected
Time Connected:  1 day 17:08:04Downstream Rate:  3070kbps
Upstream Rate:  444kbps

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Line Status     ---     SHOWTIME
Link Type       ---     Interleaved PathOperation Mode  G992.5(ADSL2+)  G992.5(ADSL2+)
 Data Rate Information:
Stream Type     Actual Data RateUpstream        444 (Kbps.)
Downstream      3070 (Kbps.) 
Defect/Failure Indication:Operation Data         Upstream         Downstream
Noise Margin            17.5 dB         7.3 dBLine Attenuation        20.1 dB         33.5 dB
 Indicator Name           Near End Indicator     Far End Indicator
Output Power                         10.1 dBm   0.0 dBmFast Path FEC Correction                 NA     NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction  3736694836     0Fast Path CRC Error                     NA      NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error              82      1Loss of Signal Defect                   2       0
Fast Path HEC Error STR                 NA      NAInterleaved Path HEC Error              329     0
Error Seconds                          2516     5

Edited by deleted (Sat 15-Sep-12 23:29:26)

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23

Line Status     ---     SHOWTIME
Link Type       ---     Interleaved PathOperation Mode  G992.5(ADSL2+)  G992.5(ADSL2+)

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8

Stream Type     Actual Data Rate
Upstream        809 (Kbps.)Downstream      3068 (Kbps.)
 Defect/Failure Indication:
Operation Data          Upstream        DownstreamNoise Margin             7.3 dB          11.2 dB
Line Attenuation        20.4 dB         34.0 dB

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45
67
89
10

Indicator Name                 Near End Indicator       Far End Indicator
Output Power                          10.1 dBm  0.0 dBmFast Path FEC Correction                NA      NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction         19502   75Fast Path CRC Error                     NA      NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error              24      0Loss of Signal Defect                   3       0
Fast Path HEC Error STR                  NA     NAInterleaved Path HEC Error               43     0
Error Seconds                           118     0

Edited by deleted (Tue 18-Sep-12 15:10:09)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Looks like all that Orange have done is uncap the upstream sync - yet downstream sync is about the same although the downstream SNRM is larger.

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

Is the SNRM being larger better?

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

Just spoken to them on the phone, they said that there was a problem with the line test (an exclamation mark) which meant it could be a problem with the line or something in the house. The fault has been escalated to another team who can get in touch with Openreach, so now i have to wait to see if I will get a call.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

As far as I can tell there are no extensions in the house, there's only one telephone socket.

This is the inside of the socket:

Socket

I'll post back in this thread in a couple of days with any changes.

Looks like everythings OK at the back of the NTE5 - have you also tried different filters and/or filtered faceplate?

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

The only part you are allowed to remove as a customer is the bottom faceplate cover, not anything else otherwise BT can and will charge for a replacement due to tampering.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 19-Sep-12 14:54:09)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

The only part you are allowed to remove as a customer is the bottom faceplate cover, not anything else otherwise BT can and will charge for a replacement due to tampering.

So what! I removed nothing and it's already been done! My observation still stand regardless.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Clean up what?

The dust looks like the usual you get when fitting the socket to the wall. If it was insect and cobweb then I'd expect to see more on other flat surfaces, e.g. top of the gree section and the contact areas which look pretty good really.

I suggest a look inside some the external boxes when engineers have them open to see the amount of wildlife that makes home in them.

General advice is NOT to remove faceplate from wall to this extent due to the risk of being charged if you break something, but I have NEVER seen someone getting charged for having a dirty back box to the master socket. In the case of water ingress from damp possibly, but no sign of that in the socket.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

End user is allowed to remove the face plate which leaves a nice hole for the entry of dust, so dust presence is not defacto evidence of tampering.

If BT ever tried that, rather than people think they might, then I would ensure the issue was taken up with CEO

For all you know that dust is present from when socket was put on the wall, and having seen inside a few sockets in my lifetime that would be my conclusion.

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

...I just have my own experiences in having worked for an ADSL provider previously...

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

...I just have my own experiences in having worked for an ADSL provider previously...

Phew! Thought I'd misidentified a NTE5 for a minute or two there

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

...I just have my own experiences in having worked for an ADSL provider previously...

Phew! Thought I'd misidentified a NTE5 for a minute or two there

lol, to be fair my eyes shouldn't have been looking at the inner plate hanging down from a backplate like that, hence the confusion

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Phew! Thought I'd misidentified a NTE5 for a minute or two there

lol, to be fair my eyes shouldn't have been looking at the inner plate hanging down from a backplate like that, hence the confusion

No problem - it's an old type, note the brass threaded holes that take the threaded screws for holding the faceplate in position. More modern NTE5's use self taping screws for attaching the faceplate. It can be a problem fitting filtered faceplates to old NTE5's with the supplied self taping screws or if one doesn't have threaded screws that are long enough.

Agreed the OP shouldn't really have tampered with the NTE5 but what's done is done

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

Even if that is a more modern socket than I first realised on a quick glimpse of it, there still is potential for that to be upgraded to an NTE5a...should offer better common mode noise protection than the old standard NTE5.

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Sep-12 16:34:19)

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

lol maybe the copper and in some cases aluminium lines aren't meant for broadband? We could debate this stuff all day

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

Even if that is a more modern socket than I first realised on a quick glimpse of it, there still is potential for that to be upgraded to an NTE5a or an SSFP which should offer better common mode noise protection than the old standard NTE5.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

Even if that is a more modern socket than I first realised on a quick glimpse of it, there still is potential for that to be upgraded to an NTE5a or an SSFP which should offer better common mode noise protection than the old standard NTE5.

Where you went wrong when you first looked at it was in not realising it is hanging sideways. The top is at the right, and on the left you can see where the faceplate fits onto it.

FYI the NTE5 is the part that screws to the wall, including the part hanging down in the picture. An "NTE5" has never been a complete assembly.

An NTE5A is a single phone socket faceplate to fit to an NTE5, as opposed to SSFPs or an NTE5B. The latter being a faceplate with no socket, for use where the NTE5 is, for example, installed in a loft with no use of it for a phone being envisaged.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If other stats are all the same, then 7291 still sounds low, and maybe they have un capped you, but not to a totally uncapped profile.

Orange support seems to prefer capped line profiles, rather than letting the DLM adjust itself.

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Sep-12 18:20:06)

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

The NTE5a's are the standard Openreach branded sockets arent they? The ones that come with bell wire removed as opposed to the BT with piper man logo sockets that still have it?

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

I've also seen quite a few folk who having been migrated to WBC haven't been told to keep their router switched on 24/7 and have caps as a result. This can easily be seen through with the sync uptime in an RRT database check. And just plain asking the user.

But I digress on that point.

Best thing the the OP can do is ask whoever put the SNR reset through (because they should have access to perform a KBD test) to take a look at the local access network part of the test and see if its failing.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Nice myth that WBC requires you to keep router on 24/7

Also what do you think an SNR reset is going to do? It is already looking like it on the lowest target margin, a reset usually only gains speed if their SN margin is high

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Sep-12 20:30:26)

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

its the standard TR101 ranges are banded to 160k - 24mb for WBC.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Seen plenty of people with similar caps from only Orange of late, so they are doing something.

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

I do keep the router on 24/7. How long should i expect the router to keep a connection? I don't think I've ever seen it connected for more than 2 days.

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

The NTE5a's are the standard Openreach branded sockets arent they? The ones that come with bell wire removed as opposed to the BT with piper man logo sockets that still have it?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Are you saying that the dsl link is normally dropped at least once every 48 hours even though you leave the router powered on 24/7?

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Status:
                  Configured    CurrentLine Status     ---     SHOWTIME
Link Type       ---     Fast PathOperation Mode  G992.5(ADSL2+)  G992.5(ADSL2+)
 Data Rate Information:
Stream Type     Actual Data RateUpstream        923 (Kbps.)
Downstream      7291 (Kbps.) 
Defect/Failure Indication:Operation Data          Upstream        Downstream
Noise Margin              7.3 dB        8.8 dBLine Attenuation        19.9 dB         33.5 dB
 Indicator Name          Near End Indicator      Far End Indicator
Output Power                           10.1 dBm         0.0 dBmFast Path FEC Correction                 0      0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction         NA      NAFast Path CRC Error                     1714    185
Interleaved Path CRC Error              NA      NALoss of Signal Defect                   10      0
Fast Path HEC Error STR                 7638    198Interleaved Path HEC Error              NA      NA
Error Seconds                           1371    30

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Agreed, they are only every going to entertain it as a fault if happening multiple times in the same hour

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

...I told the guy that I think I should be getting a slightly faster connection ~10Mbps or more. However he said that by line length I can only get 8Mbps, I didn't know whether to take this as; I've been completely uncapped and there's a possibility for my line to automatically sync at a higher speed. Or; We've capped you at 8Mbps because that's the maximum we believe your line can run.

I was told that if I experience a couple of disconnections within the next two or three days I should ring back.

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 20-Sep-12 13:17:15)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I really don't understand how that guy came to the conclusion that you can only get 8mbps since your downstream adsl2+ attenuation is 33.5dB and SNRM at 8.8dB.

Perhaps others can comment on the error rates etc. but they don't look too bad to me after an up time of more than 22 hours...

Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Sep-12 13:29:00)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I repeat - the NTE5A is purely and simply the removable faceplate, and in fact so far as I know is no different when supplied with the current NTE5 from that supplied with earlier versions such as the Piper logoed one.

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

Maybe I need to get the phone number for 3rd line support! If my service is uncapped then it may eventually sync at a higher speed. If i don't experience too many disconnections I will leave it for 10 days or so to see what happens, and then decide what to do.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

It is also possible that I am the queen of sheba

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Line Status     ---     SHOWTIME
Link Type       ---     Fast PathOperation Mode  G992.5(ADSL2+)  G992.5(ADSL2+)
 Data Rate Information:
Stream Type     Actual Data RateUpstream        843 (Kbps.)
Downstream      6455 (Kbps.) 
Operation Data  Upstream        DownstreamNoise Margin           8.1 dB   8.2 dB
Line Attenuation        20.1 dB         33.5 dB 
Indicator Name         Near End Indicator       Far End IndicatorOutput Power                   10.1 dBm         0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction        0       0Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA      NA
Fast Path CRC Error             14      0Interleaved Path CRC Error      NA      NA
Loss of Signal Defect            12     0Fast Path HEC Error STR         36      0
Interleaved Path HEC Error      NA      NAError Seconds                   2658    33

Edited by deleted (Fri 21-Sep-12 15:16:47)

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

Just had a disconnection, was connected for just over 48 hours, my IP profile has gone down to 5.69Mbps...

...I hope this isn't a sign that every time I get a disconnection my connection speed will drop slightly, 3070Kbps here I come!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Might be almost time to "bit the bullet" and move on

Have Orange themselves offered any more help: e.g. a replacement router, filters and adsl rj11 cable. If you are still connected to the test socket and the sync speed continues to be poor then Orange really do need to thoroughly investigate the problem...

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

I have this feeling that they won't see what's happening as a problem, as far as they're concerned the maximum speed for my connection is 8Mbps and as long as it's above 2Mbps then it's fine.

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

When I pressed the 2nd line support guy about the speed only being 7291Kbps and said I expected more he said that my line was only capable of 8Mbps so I was doing quite well.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

They keep coming up with this 8Mbps number which might be relevant to an ADSL(1) downstream sync speed but you are on ADSL2+ with an attenuation of 33.5dB and SNRM of 8.2dB and this should give you a downstream sync of ~14500Kbps (~14Mbps)

It may well be that in their view throughput speeds might acceptable between 2Mbps and 8Mbps but I don't know how they can claim between 2Mbps and 8Mbps is acceptable for a sync speed (?) on your adsl2+ line.

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

It seems that they're not interested in attenuation at all, I imagine they're following whatever information is on their computer screen, and whatever that says goes.

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 21-Sep-12 19:10:52)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

It seems that they're not interested in attenuation at all, I imagine they're following whatever information is on their computer screen, and whatever that says goes.

I've had similar issues with ISP's in the past (not Orange though) and sent them copies of router stats and BT speed tests in order to convince them that there was a problem.

This was done in the form of "tickets" sent to the ISP which were then escalated to the appropriate level of technical support. Tests were subsequently done on my line by the ISP and it was agreed that there was indeed a problem. In my case an Openreach SFI engineer checked the entire line from my test socket to the exchange and located the fault. In your case it may not be hardware problem but in my opinion they are obliged to fully investigate the poor sync speed and hence the poor service that you are receiving and paying good money for!

In reply to a post by UKDoc:

Hello,

Please send your broadband telephone number in a private message and I will get the issues escalated. One of the team will contact you.

Regards

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Line Status     ---     SHOWTIME
Link Type       ---     Fast PathOperation Mode  G992.5(ADSL2+)  G992.5(ADSL2+)

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Stream Type     Actual Data Rate
Upstream        907 (Kbps.)Downstream      6912 (Kbps.)
 Defect/Failure Indication:
Operation Data      Upstream    DownstreamNoise Margin             6.1 dB         7.8 dB
Line Attenuation        19.7 dB         33.5 dB 
Indicator Name             Near End Indicator   Far End IndicatorOutput Power                10.1 dBm    0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction        0       0Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA      NA
Fast Path CRC Error             4291    49Interleaved Path CRC Error      NA      NA
Loss of Signal Defect           17      0Fast Path HEC Error STR         12018   50
Interleaved Path HEC Error      NA      NAError Seconds                   6677    62

Edited by deleted (Tue 25-Sep-12 13:46:04)

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

It would appear that the saga is over, not to my satisfaction though.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Is your current downstream throughput speed sufficient for your needs? Even if it is I agree that the situation is far from satisfactory but do you wish to pursue the matter further?

Earlier in the thread you did mention that Orange had detected a problem with the line: "Just spoken to them on the phone, they said that there was a problem with the line test (an exclamation mark) which meant it could be a problem with the line or something in the house. The fault has been escalated to another team who can get in touch with Openreach, so now i have to wait to see if I will get a call."

Maybe if you want to improve the downstream sync and hence throughput speed you will have to push Orange to arrange for an Openreach SFI engineer to thoroughly test your line from the NTE5 test socket to the exchange. You stated earlier that everything is OK on your side of the NTE5 and certainly everything seemed to be in order at the back of the NTE5 as shown in the photo.

Edited by deleted (Tue 25-Sep-12 15:04:37)

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

...two members of their escalation team have both insisted that I am getting all that Orange are obliged to deliver and anymore would be a bonus, one which they're not willing to pay for or sort out.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You are not dealing with people who understand the technology, just people repeating what another poorly informed person has trained them in.

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

Anything I can do about this?

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

I think they may be doing something to my upload but I should probably quit while I'm ahead

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by beardedwonder:

I think they may be doing something to my upload but I should probably quit while I'm ahead

It's BTw's DLM; it only gives 888K Up on Interleaved; Fast Path would be faster but DLM decides.

Good speed tho'; might get faster if DLM chooses 3dB NM.

Notice attn. gone down after eng fiddled

Edited by deleted (Thu 18-Oct-12 18:25:21)

In reply to a post by UKDoc:

Hello,

I had asked the team to take a second look, so glad we got this resolved for you.

Regards

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Time Connected:  07:52:11
Downstream Rate:  15285kbpsUpstream Rate:     1264kbps

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Line Status     ---     SHOWTIME
Link Type       ---     Interleaved PathOperation Mode  G992.5(ADSL2+)  G992.5(ADSL2+)
 Data Rate Information:
Stream Type     Actual Data RateUpstream        1264 (Kbps.)
Downstream      15285 (Kbps.) 
Defect/Failure Indication:Operation Data         Upstream         Downstream
Noise Margin             5.5 dB         6.0 dBLine Attenuation        18.4 dB         31.5 dB
 Indicator Name    Near End Indicator    Far End Indicator
Output Power                    12.8 dBm        0.0 dBmFast Path FEC Correction         NA     NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 14863   0Fast Path CRC Error              NA     NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error       39     11Loss of Signal Defect            14     0
Fast Path HEC Error STR          NA     NAInterleaved Path HEC Error       716    3
Error Seconds                   1497    12

Edited by deleted (Fri 19-Oct-12 19:09:16)