New PC / Steam Machine

After loads of reading I reckon I'm settling on this Syber Machine.

You can fiddle with the specs, so I have gone for white, the upgraded cooler and the AMD Kaveri A10 7850 combined CPU/GPU, as I unequivocally believe it is the future of processing and will soon be producing better results than the current "grunt" approach.

Will wait for Steam OS to release first obviously, and they even had some awesome colour options rumoured (I like orange).

About 620 quid.

Ok, scrap that! It's not upgradeable.

Right Swanny. I've now gone for an upgradeable version. Added an AMD R9 290X and upgraded the power supply. Total of £1150 give or take.

Not to everybodys taste, but I like the idea for cooling and it's different.

A look inside here sounds like it's upgradable still. At least for what I might want anyway.

Edited by mrnelster (Sat 23-May-15 14:52:51)

Thats a PC isn't it Magoo and a ugly one at that

Will possibly check out a Steam machine but PC no thanks especially when they look like something from Transformers.

It's not a transformer, it's a robot in disguise.

This is their likely steam machine offering (as read elsewhere) but as of now, still in PC guise, but I wouldn't go the NVIDIA route personally.

https://www.cyberpowersystem.co.uk/system/VAPOR_Xtreme

I'm assuming Steam OS can still be installed on the Robot in Disguise and used in the same way?

I like robots.

Edited by mrnelster (Sat 23-May-15 16:53:32)

Ho ! Ho ! Ho !

This is it here, offered in much lower specs but with full off the shelf upgradeability.

You can always dual boot and be able to play both ways. I still like the robot one more though.

Can you use it as a normal PC??


But what about this?
http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/i5-3-2ghz-8gb-ram-59...

Looks like something out of Star wars

Looks ok mate, but I'm gambling on the AMD set up having longer legs. The 290X beats a Titan if you're not into overclocking (which I won't be) but the Mantle API needs to be taken seriously. For compatible games like BF4, it shows 20% plus performance increases.

Not all games are designed with mantle in mind right now, but it is the architecture of the future AND remember. The AMD spin on HSA architecture (although not identical) is in every single PS4 and Xbone.

I cannot imagine the majority of developers deciding not to head that way to be honest, and the differences between 290 and 980 performance aren't great enough to persuade me otherwise. The AMD should give my machine longer legs, just as the consoles get better, the longer developers have with their hardware.

Thoughts from JayZTwoCents.

Thoughts from Linus.

The Titan is still an option, depending on how long it takes me to buy or get one of these built. I could probably save 300 quid over the X wing robot design, but I'm not sure I can be ars*d with building it myself.

I been looking at these Steam Machines this morning and I'm not sure this will happen the end of 2015 based on the fact you can not seem to even pre/order one and there are so many combinations its totally stupid.

Think i placed my order for Playstation 4 as soon as it was announced and then had to wait about 8 months or was it a year.

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

Thoughts from JayZTwoCents.

Thoughts from Linus.

The Titan is still an option, depending on how long it takes me to buy or get one of these built. I could probably save 300 quid over the X wing robot design, but I'm not sure I can be ars*d with building it myself.

Sure your not get to excited about nothing,personally i don't think it will happen this year and there is far to much confusion surround all these units and manufacturers .

They're not steam machines just pc's. I can add the Steam OS later if I want that functionality, but this will easily play P/Cars on ultra.

The real delay is likely to be developers fully embracing Linux based games. The hardware is just about console "form factor". I don't think there's anything stopping them from a hardware standpoint. They're all just waiting for the green light from Steam.

E3 might have some new dates, who knows?

Righty Oh Then Captain

mantle isnt the future, amd made it as a concept to push microsoft into improving directx and hence dx12 is coming.

DA:I which had mantle had issues for amd users using mantle, the issues were big enough which made those users revert to dx mode.

My view on cpu's has changed since I last posted as recent games (not including witcher 3 which is light on cpu) have been quite heavy on cpu requirements, and the new gta game pushes my cpu quite hard. DX12 will favour having more cpu cores vs having priority of per core performance (which intel wins easily currently).

However in the gpu world, amd remain behind nvidia and I dont see that changing in future unless samsung end up buying amd as is rumoured. The problem with amd is not just the hardware but also their drivers. Amd users much more frequently get issues with games than nvidia users, Dont make your decision based on what is put in the consoles.

The amd 290 cards are not bad cards (if you dont care about heat, noise and power consumption) but the drivers suffer.

Edited by Chrysalis (Sun 24-May-15 18:59:03)

My view on cpu's has changed since I last posted as recent games (not including witcher 3 which is light on cpu) have been quite heavy on cpu requirements, and the new gta game pushes my cpu quite hard. DX12 will favour having more cpu cores vs having priority of per core performance (which intel wins easily currently).

You've got more positions than the Karma Sutra. Isn't that what I just said and linked to on YouTube? Isn't that what the consoles are currently doing?

It's old news. Anybody who follows gaming discussion has known this for yonks. In broadband terms, it's the bus versus the motor bike speed comparison. It's just that elitists with pure grunt processors have been sticking their fingers in their ears. Of course I would never expect you to acknowledge anything that I say.

The 290x reference card is noisy. Many of the third party cards are not. The links I posted show how it beats a Titan in many games. The difference is marginal at best, but the price difference is redonkulous. I'll read up a bit more on drivers but I suspect you are overstating the case a little.

AMD have announced that Mantle will be supported indefinitely, but they can probably see that Dx12 is likely to find a foothold, just because. That is why they are recommending developers look to Dx12, which in any case is virtually a Mantle copy. Mantle was not simply a concept.

looks like you not done enough research, but you claim to know an aweful lot for someone who is not a pc gamer.

AMD were not happy with how inefficient directx was, so they created mantle, but they have said repeated times it was to push the industry forward rather than expecting it to ever become mainstream.

But anyway continue to ignore anything that doesnt match your view, go out and just buy the damn thing so we can see how you go.

The problems AMD has is twofold really.

As already mentioned their drivers are horrific vs nvidia, so even if the cards are technically equal on a hardware level, the nvidia will outperform the amd in most games, its a bit like when comparing consoles to PC's, console games are optimised more for those platforms so PC's usually need more grunt to get comparable performance to a console, it is what it is.

So for horsepower efficiency you could sort of look at it like this. consoles > nvidia pc > amd pc

Be aware sometimes the gap between amd and nvidia can be huge, as is on gta5 and witcher3.

Then you got the problem of how popular the hardware is, when amd release a new tech such as fuji e.g. they are now only putting it on their highest end cards and the lower ones are just rebrands of older tech, this is important because it means consumers say screw this I am buying nvidia. Result nvidia has the marketshare. Game developers who do you think they will prioritise on game development? the one that has market share.

Most of the amd 300 series cards are rebrands of 200 series cards which themselves were rebrands. This is one reason I said to you in another thread to get a x90 series AMD card when you yourself were going to buy a low end amd card thinking you could game with it on 4k resolutions.

Regarding the youtubers yes they often recommend AMD for budget builds, thats the one area AMD compete in well.

Of course regarding noise a 3rd party AMD card may have superior cooling which is also quieter, but thats the same with nvidia. So a 3rd party AMD card might match a stock nvidia card for noise, but a 3rd party nvidia card would still likely beat it, but to be fair to a lot of gamers they dont care about the noise so it might not be relevant to you, I said that as well. Remember as well to consider what you putting the card in, amd's card run hot, airflow cools them down, a tight fitting steam box wont have good air flow.

Also I guess you forgotten that amd is pretty bad in linux as well.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/4/...

If you call me dumb again tho, I leave you to it, go ahead and tell us how it works out, you certianly seem to be one of the very few people even interested in a steam box, I consider it to have a very small market.

Edited by Chrysalis (Mon 25-May-15 01:15:55)

If you call me dumb again tho, I leave you to it, go ahead and tell us how it works out, you certianly seem to be one of the very few people even interested in a steam box, I consider it to have a very small market.

And Plastic Steering Wheels

I didn't call you dumb, although I'm starting to think you have learning difficulties.

The card that claimed to manage 4k (which you disagree with, correctly or incorrectly) was a 970m. It certainly isn't high end, but calling it low end shows your hand as a pc elitist. The problem I have with taking any advice from you is that you claim every single manufacturer/developer/tech commentator/YouTuber is lying, bought off by publishers to dupe those of us that get out of our bedrooms every now and then. I find that arrogant and patronising, particularly from someone like you who changes his standpoint every other day. Whether it be frames per second, resolution or architecture, you're like a flip flop and useless to anybody trying to do any kind of sensible reading.

I have been doing a tremendous amount of research accordingly, and because I don't subscribe to every marketing conspiracy theory on the internet, particularly from some of the most obvious hit seeking bloggers around (that you seem to follow vehemently) I'm pretty sure that you are consistently overstating the case.

And while I'm doing that reseach. I come across a fair amount of that click bait which appears to mimic you word for word. Funny that...

I haven't asked for your advice, you just keep calling me a fanboy, whilst criticising everything I say. I am posting what I am discovering because everytime Swanny posts a PC hold you criticise it, when in reality I'm sure it will be a pretty good build. That's why across all the PC build forums there is so much confusion amongst would be first time pc builders. I just happen to believe that the Kaveri 7850 is a good CPU choice for Mantle or Dx12 (which AMD cards will fully support remember?). I've mentioned parallel programming being the future more than once in the past and been told by your good self that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Then you rock up with "I, Lord Chrysalis, have changed my opinion since last frequenting this establishment..."

Do me a favour.

Wake up dipstick.

Hey don't call me Dipstick again or else Court Proceedings will proceed..

Thats Slander Nelly ?and me and my Mate Chrysalis will give you a good hiding .

Forget Steam Machines and you concentrate on the Corgi Train set in your Attic..[steam powered at that ]

You have been told what to buy and not what to buy so learn a valuable lesson and don't become like Timey who doesn't seem to learn from his past mistakes like buying a Xbox One that just sits there doing absolutely nothing and endless games that i trade mere hours after ordering them

Like The Witcher,The Order 1886,Cod,Battlefield and on and on and on.

Edited by time2die (Mon 25-May-15 10:35:50)

This is the one I'm going for

Note its top of the range..

Edit...........

Oh Sorry Wrong Thread

Edited by time2die (Mon 25-May-15 10:39:13)

They said Steam would never take off and that Valve would crash and burn, and look what it has achieved?

The only people seriously counting out the the viability of Steam Machines, on the Steam OS, seem to have a recurring (boring) agenda. I say stand or fall, good luck to it.

What a pile of cr*p. Mine reaches 121 Bar at only 2999W and 239V. Your driveway will soon crumble under the weight of the dirt if you buy that piece of junk.

You haven't got a clue what you're buying, you pressure washer amateur...

Im all for buying a Steam machine and a really decent spec one at that,my problem is the confusion and the amount of companies producing them,the price point and the release dates seem very sparse with limited information.

Alien Ware system apparently ships November 2015.

Anyway Nelly Majicka 2 tomorrow on PSN.

It was meant as humour Nelly ,i don't even own a steam pressure washer,pressure washer yes but not Steam Powered.

Never played Majicka 1? What is it?

In reply to a post by time2die:

It was meant as humour Nelly ,i don't even own a steam pressure washer,pressure washer yes but not Steam Powered.

Try to keep up! Read the Specs from your pressure washer link, then read mine you dipstick.

Look at YouTube clips

Just did, but unfortunately I'm not a vampire...

I never called a 970m low end, I just made it clear a 970m is not on par with a normal 970. A 970 in itself is probably only considered a mid end card, maybe slightly above mid end but not high end. Which is now titan X and 295x2 territory.

Just buy the thing then enjoy it.

The most valuable data is from paying customers who are NOT bloggers and reviewers, they are more likely to be honest as they have not been given free products and dont rely on having early access to get traffic.

Bloggers and reviewers are also useful but dont take everything they say for granted, you have to be aware they have a relationship with the vendors. A prime example of this was the 970 3.5gig fiasco where conveniently every single reviewer managed to not notice the problem and published incorrect specs in their articles.

Yes nvidia has the higher market share even tho it costs more money, there is a reason for that, AMD last released a WHQL driver 6 months ago, and their software quality on linux (which I understand will be your platform) is even more in a bad state.

These are facts, you can ignore them and purchase, its your money not mine.

Project cars performance was so bad on AMD, customers accused the publisher of been in bed with nvidia.

Edited by Chrysalis (Mon 25-May-15 17:52:08)

In reply to a post by time2die:

Hey don't call me Dipstick again or else Court Proceedings will proceed..

Hey me old mucka Timey, remember it's only slander if it's not true

Yes nvidia has the higher market share even tho it costs more money, there is a reason for that, AMD last released a WHQL driver 6 months ago, and their software quality on linux (which I understand will be your platform) is even more in a bad state.

These are facts...

Then please, post some evidence for all your criticisms. Because every time I research what you claim, I find as many people who say the opposite and more still who say there is very little difference between the two companies in terms of drivers and interfaces. You are overstating the case as usual, end of. Now please, supply us the plethora of sources from "real users" (as you suggest) who are desperately struggling with all these games and their driver issues, then we can validate your advice. Otherwise your opinion is of no consequence to anybody looking to build their own machine.

Project cars performance was so bad on AMD, customers accused the publisher of been in bed with nvidia

Again, completely overstated. "In bed with nvidia" is how you and people like you, love to spin things all across the web. I've been watching videos on YouTube of AMD users playing Project cars for months. This "terrible performance" nonsense, is precisely that.

Nonsense.

Go careful it looks like that will take the paint off your Micra

Looks like something from the Atari 520ST

And I'm guessing you would know Mr Gamer

This sort of game seems to be having some sort of revival of late.

Yes I would thanks

"in bed with mvidia" isnt my words.

You ordered it yet?

You shouldn't use such quotes to support your opinion, then distance yourself from them immediately upon challenge. :/

As I've said repeatedly, I will unlikely be buying before Christmas or at least before I see what is happening with regards to Steam Machines. I have now decided to build it myself however and settled on a preliminary list of parts so far:

Fractal Design - Define S Computer Chassis
Samsung 2.5-Inch 120 GB 850 EVO Solid State Drive
WD 1TB SATA lll Desktop SATA Drive - Blue
Cooler Master Vanguard V700W 80 Plus Gold PSU
Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z Motherboard
AMD FX-9590 Black Edition Octa Core CPU
Gigabyte WINDFORCE 290X OC Graphics Card (PCI-E, 4 GB, GDDR5, HDMI, 1 GPU)

I haven't yet decided on either full or just CPU water cooling (or neither even). I am however only teetering on the CPU/Motherboard combination. I'm more than convinced as to their performance per pound, and also of the quality of the motherboard for what I need from it.

The AM3+ socket is the obvious elephant in the room though. Whether I opt for that instead of FM2+ and ignore future upgradeability for now, is the only difficult decision. By the time I might want to upgrade from the FX9590/290X combo, the feature set of any FM2+ board might also be old hat anyway, so.

Edited by mrnelster (Sun 31-May-15 00:32:18)

250/500GB SSD would be better to go for as 120 will not go far, unless you are just having it as a boot drive.

I was planning to use the HDD for mass storage, and the SSD for the OS and whatever games I'm playing at the time. It will likely only be one game anyway, Project Cars.

Is that configuration not doable?

The AM3+ socket is the obvious elephant in the room though. Whether I opt for that instead of FM2+ and ignore future upgradeability for now, is the only difficult decision. By the time I might want to upgrade from the FX9590/290X combo, the feature set of any FM2+ board might also be old hat anyway, so.

So many variables. No wonder so many people opt for consoles!

Anyway, the plot has thickened again. If I go for one of the next iteration of FX processors next year, it will be on the new AM4 socket. This will also likely mean a very costly CPU. On the other hand, DX12 will allow AMD's APU's to combine the onboard GPU with the the chosen discrete graphics card.
So a Kaveri 7850 or 7870 can add R7 capability to an R9 290 for example. A possibility developers are already quite excited about by all accounts. It's going to be interesting.

I might go back to my original plan for an APU.

you aware linux (steamos) games are opengl instead of directx?

some project cars testing data here. (r290x included in tests)

http://techreport.com/review/28356/nvidia-geforce-gt...

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

you aware linux (steamos) games are opengl instead of directx?

Indeed. That's why your flippant disregard of Mantle hasn't phased me at all.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

some project cars testing data here. (r290x included in tests)

http://techreport.com/review/28356/nvidia-geforce-gt...

You are being obvious. Just accept that many people can't see the differences you hold in such high esteem and move on. I'm not paying the extra to buy into that fantasy.

dude whats up with you, it seems you only want to argue with me, I posted that as I came across it as I am on the TR mailing list.

Thought it would interest you, but seems you in a rage.

Your anger has got to the point I dont care or maybe I even hope you buy and await the disappointment afterwards.

I buy whats the best on the market for me, I dont have any brand loyalty. I just say it how it is.

Think about what you said, "you are been obvious" its as if you taking offense in what I am saying.

Yeah he needs Anger Management Classes I think he went to one about 6 months ago but beat the guy up

Dude ? I love that word but Swanny doesn't ?

Its doable and its what i am running at current but with a 250GB SSD, you will find that you will probably want to install more games on the ssd as certain games the loading speed vs hdd is quite considerable.

The cost increase from 120GB (£48) to 250GB (£78), is only £30 which is not much for double the storage capacity. SSD's continue to fall in price and eventually will probably see them cheaper then HDD's.

I would want at least 1 Terabyte Whats the cost of that ?

1TB SSD

You're negative about everything I have posted regarding a PC build.

Millions of people are happy with their AMD cards. Millions of people have a great experience with their AMD processors. And virtually all of them will have paid a lot less to boot.

You made your preference clear ages ago, but I haven't agreed with you. So you'll just bang on, and on, and on. If you want to add anything positive about the AMD route, I'm all ears. But if you want to keep pointing out the terrible peformance, ridiculous temperatures and jet engine fans, then I'm not interested.

I await (for the third time) the "Buy it, see if I care" style answer.

Will take that on board. Are the Samsung EVO SSD's as good as any?

It's ok coming from a yank

Any many brand ssd will be fine, Samsung/corsair/Kingston crucial etc are what most people go for, crucial will be a bit cheaper then Samsung so worth looking at their drives.

Will do, thanks.

That was a good shout. Seventy quid for a Crucial 250GB on Ebuyer.

Would you recommend 2 x 250 or a 500GB?

so basically you just want a pat on the back.

No, I want non biased advice which you have struggled with. You have let your NVIDIA crush cloud the value of your obvious experience in the PC space.

I want to take the AMD route because it will most likely make my build £200 cheaper and the new API landscape will benefit it more. You could be advising me on Mobo's, SSD's, water cooling or whether Sata III is currently worth worrying about etc etc. You seem more intent on posting proof of AMD's second place status, and that just confuses the matter.

I'm open to any and everybody advising me on what to build. I just don't want to keep getting dragged into hardware favouritism, when I've already stated that I'm happy with the performance per pound the AMD route offers me.

Now if you were advising Timey on a PC build, you might be barking up a more preachable tree.

And believe it or not mate i would go the Nvidea Route every time

In reply to a post by ccxo:

Any many brand ssd will be fine, Samsung/corsair/Kingston crucial etc are what most people go for, crucial will be a bit cheaper then Samsung so worth looking at their drives.

Than not then

I would say its you been brand loyal to AMD.

There is no nvidia crush, they are the current market leader. As for millions of happy AMD customers, the steam forums suggest otherwise, complaint after complaint that nvidia works so much better in so many games. Also I actually want AMD to make a fightback as nvidia having no proper competitor isnt good for the market. Hopefully the 390x does well.

You are the first person I have come across asking for opinions and then blatantly been rude to those giving their opinion because they disagree with you.

I could say this and maybe it makes you happy?

"Yes I think the hardware spec you have chosen is ideal, it will work great playing project cars at 4k resolution on steamos, AMD are so ahead of the game on cutting edge GPU's and their linux driver support is second to none."

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 02-Jun-15 15:42:42)

I've always gone for nvidia cards

It depends how much your budget is but its recommended to get the largest ssd you can, so i would opt for the 500GB and with the 1tb hdd you should have more then enough storage

Water cooling can be quite expensive as most build are custom, their are all in one options such as corsair cpu water coolers, you just have to install the unit.

The corsair units are popular as it removes the need for large cpu heat sinks- these can stop ram with tall heat sinks being installed unless you opt for low profile ram.

Edited by deleted (Tue 02-Jun-15 17:25:45)

Me 2

When i was a PC Geek about a decade ago

So Nelly is now considering the life of a hermit in a small darkened corner of the house or small office type space.

Traitors will be Shot........

Im up for a Steam Machine,and when I'm not to confused [that don't take much] it will be a Top End Rig and no budget set up for Timey rest assured.

In reply to a post by ccxo:

It depends how much your budget is but its recommended to get the largest ssd you can, so i would opt for the 500GB and with the 1tb hdd you should have more then enough storage

Water cooling can be quite expensive as most build are custom, their are all in one options such as corsair cpu water coolers, you just have to install the unit.

The corsair units are popular as it removes the need for large cpu heat sinks- these can stop ram with tall heat sinks being installed unless you opt for low profile ram.

.

Lost me 2nd Paragraph

If and when i purchase a Steam Machine or dinky toy like Nelly i won't want to worry about taking it to pieces and upgrading it for many a year as it will have a solid build in the first place and it shouldn't require all the bits and pieces and upgrades PCs constantly seem to require.

So been bone idle,lazy and disinterested in how things work it needs to be a high end top spec machine in the first place.

I got bored with upgrading the playstation 4 hard drive to 1TB shortly after ownership,this only required a few minutes work and a small screw to remove the original and a Sony Firmware download transferred to a usb stick.

That alone bored me to tears even though it was dead simple

I would say its you been brand loyal to AMD.

Which is what you keep implying and is what I find so irritating. I have never been a fan boy of any platform, never criticised anybody for their chosen platform, or told them that their platform has way too little grass to even compare to mine. Yet you repeatedly level the same accusation.

I could post numerous links and testamonials from AMD users that urge people with lower budgets not to fall for the story's of doom should they follow the AMD route. That testify to the very little real difference to non elitist enthusiasts, between the two manufacturers.

I could post links to all of the comparison videos I have watched, but you'd say they're all getting backhanders.

I could post the tech blogs from developers who will tell you that Mantle is the product of developers pushing AMD and actually taking on the lion's share of the work in designing it. How they knew MS and NVIDIA were far to interested in protecting their competitive advantage to truly implement change. But you would likely denounce that as "concept" work.

I have done enough research to know that the differences are overstated. In case you're struggling with that definition, I'm not denying that NVIDIA and Intel are market leaders. Simply that there isn't the gulf in performance you keep alluding to.

Timey will buy the best of the best so he doesn't count. Swanny is tight as a ducks [censored] (like me) and favours cost. He might not fully understand the changes that are imminent. I'm not claiming that AMD are superior to the competition, just that it could well turn out that way. And anybody that has properly read up on the subject, will know it's far too early to claim NVIDIA is still the best bet. It seems that DX12 could well favour AMD currently, so nobody should be claiming a win just yet. And that's very important for those planning a build right now.

In reply to a post by time2die:

And believe it or not mate i would go the Nvidea Route every time

And I would never condemn that, for you or anybody else. But nor would I exaggerate the differences, particularly when not everybody has an unlimited budget. The R9 290 is a cracking card for the money.

"For the money". Very important not to ignore that part.

I've looked at the Corsair units but a few people have had leaks, and have alluded to difficulties in fitting them the right way round. That, as a first time builder, put me off them slightly. I'm sure they're generally reliable, but I would always be paranoid that I perhaps hadn't fitted it correctly!

In reply to a post by time2die:

So Nelly is now considering the life of a hermit in a small darkened corner of the house or small office type space.

Traitors will be Shot........

Im up for a Steam Machine,and when I'm not to confused [that don't take much] it will be a Top End Rig and no budget set up for Timey rest assured.

I was hoping to build an "annexe" that would need a triple screen racing rig from playseat.com, but that might be very much on the back burner at the minute.

So I will still be annoying you on the PSN.

and I found out today ff type 0 is coming to PC, ://// after I brought a ps4 to play it.

Hopefully the new kingdom hearts exclusive will make the ps4 still worthwhile, as that game definitely wont be on pc as its sony exclusive.

PS3 is a better machine than the PS4

Go back and play it then

I will as soon as AC Rouge drops in price

There are only 2 reasons to complain about both the Playstation 4 and Xbox One and that is the distinct lack of decent titles for both machines some 18 months down the line,and then we had the horrible delay in the Playstation 4 message system that was a standing joke,i don't know if this is better as i don't message anyone.

Without the beauty that is Bloodborne a game sadly overlooked by most people on this forum then there would be little to no point owning either system.

And until Gears Redux is announced at E3 for the Xbox One then that will continue to gather dust and never get used,pointless purchase and a complete waste of space which is a premium under my Tv.

I know Swanny you are going to say its summer and Gaming is put on the back burner and to some degree i respect that Summer months is slow for gaming,but spreading some games out would help instead of releasing a ton of them come November that most of us require or would like.

Im glad i checked out the videos the Elder Scrolls online......What a mess this game looks in the graphical department and it looks dead boring.

Bloodborne as set a high standard for me after continually playing this game over and over again,immense challenge and so much content its breathtaking to play and the rewards are sweet.

Even the Chalice Dungeons are a blast and the peer to peer with mates is a right blast,also invading other peoples game is so so addictive as long as you have a decent rank.

Its got to be in my Top 5 list of all time and i just wish Bloodborne 2 was around the corner but this will turn up in about 2/3 years.

In reply to a post by Lt_Swan:

I will as soon as AC Rouge drops in price

God you a Nelly the tight Couple......Steptoe and Son

Evertime you post on here its regarding price points,guess thats the poor farmer in you

IMO games are over priced so I wait until I think they are worth the asking price.
Battlefield Hardline is a prime example. A [censored] poor attempt at a game and yet they want you to pay for premium on top of the original game price to play the new maps that are coming. Bullocks to that


I don't mind paying good money for a good game. GTA V was so good I bought it for both the 3 and the 4

If they could turn that into a proper shooter that would be amazing

Edited by deleted (Wed 03-Jun-15 17:58:06)

In reply to a post by Lt_Swan:

I don't mind paying good money for a good game. GTA was.....If they could turn that into a proper shooter that would be amazing

Now that really would be awesome.

I've still got Bloodbourne (as promised) and I will, someday, get round to giving it proper attention.

Someday.

You really got to persevere mate with this game,I'm sure once you understand how it works and how to progress within the massive game area you will enjoy it immensely .

This game has a really steep learning curve and can be confusing and difficult to understand and requires tactics and patience and understanding of the ranking and upgrading system.

Acquiring Bloodstones and upgrading your weapon when available is essential to progression and makes killing things way easier.

As you know i was somewhat disillusioned myself when i first started,but slowly it all clicked into place and its what i call Gaming Heaven.

If confused then Youtube is your source of information of what this game is all about and how to defeat guardians that you may struggle with.

Im playing it through again having not quite finished it in the first place,i was not upgrading and fixing my weapons and that was my downfall and once frag pointed me in the right direction everything feels so much better and easier,don't get me wrong the game is still a massive challenge,but understanding the upgrades and menu helps a lot.

In reply to a post by time2die:

So Nelly is now considering the life of a hermit in a small darkened corner of the house or small office type space.

Traitors will be Shot........

Im up for a Steam Machine,and when I'm not to confused [that don't take much] it will be a Top End Rig and no budget set up for Timey rest assured.

If Steam come through as expected with their new low level API (GLNext/Mantle/Vulkan) for SteamOS, it will be interesting to see what number of developers embrace it. Oxide Games (who created the Star Swarm stress test for DX12) were heavily involved in Mantles design and seem to believe that developers have been crying out for this low level approach.
Main reason? Because it reduces the complexity of drivers. That makes it harder for manufacturers to be blatantly anti consumer in protection of their own interests. Choice will be back. You won't be stuck with Windows if you want to play the latest games. Remember, DX12 is exclusively only available via Windows 10. But as we know, that's MS all over.

Anybody who thinks Steam has put up so much money in the "hope" that developers will get on board, or that the myriad of hardware companies that have announced Steam Machines are building them on a whim, obviously aren't thinking very clearly. I suspect there are some surprises in store for the conspiracy theorists later this or early next.

It's also interesting to see the different Steam Machine specs on Steam's website. Some manufacturers are going for all out power. But there are others going for mainly GOU grunt. Example, an i3 with a GTX970. Might make you wonder if they all already know what API is coming?

Anyways, I quite like this one now aswell.

I think I'll grab Bloodborne in the near future

an i3 isnt as weak as you think, see this comparison, note the i3 has better per core performance which in current games is important.

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i3-4370-vs-AMD-FX...

I however did acknowledge in an earlier post the future API designs will allow better offloading to different cpu cores and as such per core performance will becomes less important over time, it will still matter but not be the main consideration as it is now.

Even tho the 9590 has more overall power than the i3 4370, in many dx9 and dx11 games the i3 would win out.

I didn't say the i3 was weak.

I however did acknowledge in an earlier post the future API designs will allow better offloading to different cpu cores and as such per core performance will becomes less important over

The point is that you are still promoting faster core performance in a thread about new builds, when the emphasis must be on the number of cores instead. DX12 is just around the corner and it's relevance cannot be overstated.

You are too busy defending your take on performance to keep up with the real, non biased reality. And that reality is that DX12 (and whichever of the other low level API's that may or may not take a foothold) will not only make game optimisation far, far easier to achieve, they will be placing that responsibility back where it belongs. With the game developers, not with the card manufacturers. Drivers will virtually become a non issue, as will the snide practices certain card manufacturers will employ to make their games perform better on a per game basis.

You may have acknowledged the change that is coming (even if you aren't big enough to admit that I forced you to research beyond your manufacturer fetish), but you haven't acknowledgd what a sea change it really is and as to what it might mean for somebody looking to spend a grand on a gaming PC.

Bloodborne should for you anyway been bought on Day 1 ,but you worry me with lack of patience and the way you skip from game to game every few minutes.

This is a game that will take you literally weeks to finish and not one of those quick pick me up and play for 10 minutes

Bloodborne is too dark

its relevance is as much as how many games will use it, do all existing games suddenly become irrelevant?

I was referring to Jorkila the game is not £4.99 yet Swanny

I wouldn't want it even if it was free

Way over your head matey Its for Hardcore gamers not has beens

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

its relevance is as much as how many games will use it, do all existing games suddenly become irrelevant?

That's a stupid argument. Stop moving the goal posts.

In reply to a post by Lt_Swan:

I wouldn't want it even if it was free

Good to hear. You can have my copy for a score...

And Drive Club for £2 and Project Cars For a Fiver [craxy] and i will throw in a plastic steering wheel as a Incentive

So Steam Machines.

Am i reading this right,once you have one of the multiple devices that will be on the market it still has to be connected to a PC/MAC for it to stream content to it.

I thought it was a independent machine that was similar to a console,how I'm reading it you have to install content onto the PC/Mac then stream it to the Steam Box��..Whats the point in that i ask ?.

Might as well just sit in my office

Way over your head matey Its for Hardcore gamers not has beens

Hmm from reading that article that seems to be exactly the case and pretty pointless if you ask me and you might as well stick with your console!!

But I don't think this is strictly the kind of thing Nelly is going for matey.

This article should clear a few things up for you mate.

Simply put, a steam machine is basically a pc with steam os installed, the current disadvantage of this currently is the lack of game support for the linux os compared to windows, but you can as stated in the link you posted have a steam machine and a windows pc and stream games to the steam machine and as we would both agree that's pretty much a waste of time.

Me personally I would prefer to build a small form factor pc to sit beside my tv and play games via windows, that's just my opinion though

The trouble with buying one pre-configured is the premium you have to pay for the privilege!!

Ha Ha Payback

In reply to a post by Lt_Swan:

I wouldn't want it even if it was free

So if I end up buying it you won't want to play it?

No thanks it looks way too dark to me, too many other games I should be playing

Turn the brightness up

What about the scary dark?

No, it will be standalone like a console. Stick with your instincts mate.

The streaming ability is simply an additional function for games not supported by Steam OS and Linux, for those who have large existing libraries they want to play on their TV too. Streaming simply means they don't have to move both PC's into the lounge if they don't want to.

They're also releasing a Steam box thingy similar to PS Vita TV, so that you can play steam games around the home should you wish. I'm not sure why, nor whether the PS version was much of a commercial success, but I guess its handy for kids rooms etc.

Sorry, didn't read your post before replying. Good article that.

You're right. What I want is very simple. A PC for a triple screen racing rig. If I can get a Steam Machine that offers that (as the Zotac I originally posted about does) then I might well consider it simply for ease. If I decide to build a PC instead, I can still use it for Steam OS or Windows based gaming, or even dual boot (which is about as likely as Timey receiving a lifetime achievement award for services to racing games).

But although I could build in far higher performance for the same money, do I really need it? I don't need extra grass and I don't need 4k for 28-32" monitors. But I do need 3 x 1080p, so?

But what I am really interested in, is the new API's. These could be the jump start Linux gaming has been waiting for and I don't believe for a minute that Valve and the myriad of Steam Machine manufacturers are gambling millions, on a hunch as to what the market wants. I suspect there are a lot more developers on board than Windows gamers would want to believe. Then I would definitely be up for a Steam Machine. A console that I could upgrade the GPU whenever I wanted to? If the games come, that's a no brainer.

Great blog here from Oxide, who created the DX12 stress test, Star Swarm:

http://www.oxidegames.com/2014/05/21/next-generation...

Oxide has a strong interest in supporting platforms beyond Windows. Our hope is that Mantle will be a call to arms to bring an industrial-strength API to such platforms as SteamOS, Linux, Android and MacOS. The biggest problem for us moving to other platforms is the relative weakness of the graphics software on the platforms. Added to this is that we yet have no word on whether we can have D3D12 on Windows 7. From a business standpoint, it makes little sense to rely exclusively on Microsoft doing the right thing.

oh deary me.

I think you are probably the most stubborn person on the internet I have met.

In short.

you ask for opinions but if the opinions disagree with what you want they not welcome.
You think all existing games bear no relevance to performance (or maybe you dont but are simply refusing to discuss it).

Or maybe you just been awkward because its me, I wonder what response I would have got posting under a new username.

So again.

Why is pointing out all existing games would be a problem stupid?

Dont say the question is stupid answer it.

Even if your answer is you dont intend to play any dx11,10,9, existing opengl games, its still an answer.

Here is an article from the BBC, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33001605 an analyst wondering who will be buying these machines, given all pc gamers already have a pc/laptop.

Are you walking around with fingers in your ears shouting "nah" "nah" nah" ?

Well simply put its a gamble.

You gambling that linux gets improved support from manufacturers, especially AMD which currently is hideous.
Gambling more games will get linux support, and that support is as good as windows support (unlikely as developers prioritise where the money is).
In terms of manufacturer support you gambling these companies will still be around to support the products for years to come.

As you said you dont need a steam machine to play in the living room, a small form factor pc can be built, plug in a xbox controller and you good to go. Some people have a misunderstanding that a PC must mean a huge case, and keyboard and mouse for gaming. I play pretty much any game ported from a console with my xbox360 controller. It is plug and play,. no configuration required and any modern game auto detects it. Not to mention a windows small form factor PC will be more capable of other tasks as well.

The reason valve is doing this is because they scared of the windows store, and fear that it will take sales away from their platform. So they trying to get mass takeup of gamers away from windows to weaken microsoft's position. I think they very misguided in this and in 5 years time they will have lost money in this silly idea.

Small form factor pc's are smaller than my ps4.

Or get a gaming laptop and output it to a hdmi tv.

Why is pointing out all existing games would be a problem stupid?

Because you are blatantly moving the goal posts back and forth. It proves that you are reading into it, exactly what you want to and completely misleading everybody here.

I'm bored stiff of trying to get objectivity from you. Let everybody else know next time you change your stance "since last posting". Only next time, be gracious enough to acknowledge that the person you were refuting, may actually have been on to something.

And to show just how confident I am in thorough research (and how big my testicles are), when Valve go bankrupt, I'll come on here and apologise for not trusting you.

For anybody with the slightest interest in hard, unsensationalised facts, I have a long list of reference articles that I will happily PM. *

*(Those of you that aren't very good at extracting information from text, need not apply).

I agree that if you're going to put your eggs all in one basket with these steam machines then yes it is a gamble but still one that could well pay off.

The safest bet would be to build one yourself and dual boot as already mentioned which i believe that most people buying into these will do anyway (i would for certain).

Lets not forget that if these steam machines all go t*ts up you can always install windows at the end of the day

The safest bet would be to build one yourself and dual boot as already mentioned which i believe that most people buying into these will do anyway (i would for certain).

Precisely. If I build a PC to play Project Cars and Dirt Rally in triple screen, it will be for that and only that.

If I decide to buy a Steam Machine to play games more generally (as with my PS4) I would be tempted to buy a ready made jobby, but only if I was able to install Windows and dual boot it, in case any racing game I wanted was a Wndows exclusive. But I really don't see that happening. The sharp practice that has held back gaming over the years, could well be coming to an end and we will all see a substantial improvement in quality. Then even mid range PC's will blow the new consoles out of the water.

If I can stretch to a triple screen rig, I will not be playing FIFA, nor writing to my granny or checking my gas bill on it.

Thats me Then .

Im all for this Sky Box office boxing match you 2 need to arrange,Frank Maloney can promote it.........Or is that now Doris Maloney

Edited by time2die (Sat 06-Jun-15 19:09:47)

they wont go bankrupt but I think they will abandon the steam machine.

good point, if windows will work on them, then the risk is mitigated.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

good point, if windows will work on them, then the risk is mitigated.

A good point made by me ages ago.

Hey mister, you after my thunder?

In reply to a post by jorkila:

Hey mister, you after my thunder?

No. If it saves me posting in Braille, you're actually doing me a favour.

You can always dual boot and be able to play both ways.

Page one.

lol well I did say as already stated

Edited by jorkila (Sun 07-Jun-15 11:35:54)

I know you did. I was glad to see somebody had actually taken notice rather than just disagreeing with every single post.

Worst part of this is you've now got me wanting to build a small factor pc for my tv

JayzTwoCents review on a compact R9 270X for small firm factor builds.

If you wanted to go a little bigger, this card is now only £134-00.

He's reviewing a 285 mate

I dont need to see your reference articles , i already run a high end AMD gaming PC ( proper budget gamer ) with 8 cores and a 290x and have been using Steams Big Screen since the first day of rediscovering PC gaming .

Being as i like to fight for the oppressed ( former TALKTALK customer ) i can tell you , allot of what is said by PC elitists about AMD products is very much like what people say about TalkTalk service without actually using it . Lots of assumptions of what they think it should be like form cherry picked negative reviews , over many years , tends to distort the reality , whilst reaffirming their purchase of a much more expensive option .

All i know is Windows 8 runs so much better on my 8 core CPU than windows 7 does , new games run better on my 8 core CPU than old ones and more and more things are being optimised for multi threaded use .
Nvidia are fighting dirty , with proprietary programming technologies , that have been the main cause of AMD driver issues of late , i dont see this being a huge problem in the future but people buy propriety and Apple is testament to that .

Anybody that thinks , having a couple of very powerful cores versus a multitude of less powerful cores is better , obviously have not been paying attention , as the PC is finally moving from single core performance being king to multithreaded being the future .

And now all we need is the bench tests they use to support one product being superior to another ,to start to actually use the cores that are available to said bench test , which will now happen as Intel have a super expensive X99 systems that will need justifying , so the benchmarks will duly follow but that will realise the true power of a FX 8 core and those decisions to buy intel i5 might not look so good in a multi threaded future .

In reply to a post by jorkila:

He's reviewing a 285 mate

Sorry mate, wrong way round!

I meant the 285 compact for your small form factor thinking, but the 270 showed just how well a mid range card would do when multi threading is supported the way that BF4 does. Jay was very impressed in that second video, and that is good enough for me mate.

And it's only 134 quid.

It's really reassuring to hear that straight from somebody on this forum Bert.

It's easy to work out how the market is manipulated and how so many gamers have fallen for the hype over the years, just by doing thorough research. Nothing's better than confirmation by an actual user though. I'm all for the good quality gear, but not just for the brand name. I want bang for my buck too.

It would be great to see some gameplay from your machine Bert. Do you do YouTube?

Jeez thought you had eloped where you been hiding the past 12 months ?

In reply to a post by time2die:

Jeez thought you had eloped where you been hiding the past 12 months ?

I think we've established that he hasn't been stood by his PC waving a fan, in some desperate attempt to stop it from going up in flames.

So hopefully he's just been busy kicking the a*** out of his 290

Ebuyer have the 270 for £119 and the 285 for £141

Is the 285 the compact one though?

Not sure mate, this is the link.

No mate, this is the one from the review. Fits the small form
cases that you mentioned. The best I've seen it for is £180

Why dont you 2 get a room for the weekend�..

In reply to a post by time2die:

Why dont you 2 get a room for the weekend�..

You paying? We're both too tight...

Bit more info regarding gaming with Steam OS, it is just another forum thread so only peoples opinions.

Some interesting points there mate, that only reaffirm the benefit of simply building a PC and dual booting.

That said, it will still not be a multi purpose machine for me. Gaming only.

curious, any of you guys managed to register on neogaf? its a very good site but everytime I register I get declined with a vague "dont meet membership requirements"

You need Gaming Degrees like Me

Yeah I have been there for a while mate, It takes ages to get confirmation though.