Getting FTTC/ VDSL2 Internet to un-enabled line

I’ve just viewed a beautiful apartment and propose to put in my offer next week.

The only problem is there is no current Internet access. In fact, the line has never been enabled for BT Wholesale broadband. There is no phone number associated with the property, as it’s been almost a year since the previous residents went to live with their family.

The copper line is still in situ and there is a very new looking BT Openreach master socket in the hall.

How difficult/easy is it to get this sorted out? There’s no full fibre option. The product would FTTC VDSL2 with the cabinet being about 480 metres away.

Thanks.

Is FTTC/VDSL available? In theory it's just a case of ordering from your chosen provider. They can show what's available to your address

Edited by witchunt (Sat 20-Jan-24 14:11:34)

Yes. FTTC 80/20 is definitely available.

Unlikely as FTTC was withdrawn from new supply last September. The replacement is SOGEA, it utilises the same VDSL2 technology as FTTC and is delivered in exactly the same way, but without any PSTN voice service.

As you don't have a phone number or access line ID the most accurate results would be from entering the UPRN in this checker https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/ or if you don't have the UPRN use the Address Checker option, enter the postcode only and select the premises from the list returned.

If the line has been inactive for some time providers may require a new line installing as part of the order process, although the existing line ends up being reactivated.

Thank you for that info. The Wholesale checker is probably more reliable than that of my ISP. It reports that the best product available is up to 17 mbps. I couldn't live with that.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

Unlikely as FTTC was withdrawn from new supply last September. The replacement is SOGEA, it utilises the same VDSL2 technology as FTTC and is delivered in exactly the same way, but without any PSTN voice service.

For many people this is immaterial, as ISPs will offer "Fibre broadband" and an optional voice service.. which Openreach product is used to deliver is not relevant.

In reply to a post by ARD:

Thank you for that info. The Wholesale checker is probably more reliable than that of my ISP. It reports that the best product available is up to 17 mbps. I couldn't live with that.

This implies perhaps that the local cabinet is full and no space, or there is an odd wiring length.

Worth checking the postcode on site such as https://bidb.uk and see if any other providers show up, including Virgin Media or any of new Alternate Networks (alt-net) building their own fibre services. Both of these are separate to Openreach.

There's no Virgin Media in the road. The flat is leasehold. I don't think Full Fibre is permitted. I'd be
e OK if the line had been FTTC enabled but it's never been used for broadband.

In reply to a post by ARD:

There's no Virgin Media in the road.

Ok!

The flat is leasehold.

So is mine, I had Virgin Media installed; and will get FTTP when an appropriate provider arrives. Check with owner/landlord, most are helpful.

I'd be OK if the line had been FTTC enabled but it's never been used for broadband.

My guess is lack of capacity on the DSLAM cabinet. (for either FTTC or SOGEA, same cabinet used).

In reply to a post by ARD:

Thank you for that info. The Wholesale checker is probably more reliable than that of my ISP. It reports that the best product available is up to 17 mbps. I couldn't live with that.

The wholesale checker should tell you what cabinet and exchange you are on.

Then visit Codelook and enter the postcode, do a postcode lookup and see if that particular cabinet is FTTC enabled.

That site seems very elderly. I know the exchange and cabinet number and FTTC had been available for several years. It still says it is on several providers' checkers but not the BT checker.

As a second line of attack, what are the mobile signals like at the site. It may be possible to get an acceptable internet performance using a mobile signal router rather than a fixed line system.

After much ado, I've just had an speed reading from the residents' daughter.

Apparently, there is a communal Sky Dish. The results were typical of a goodish-high FTTC connection.

I haven't lived in a flat since my teens and Sky was in its infancy. Any idea what sort of standard is the norm in such setups? There are 18 flats.

Thanks.

02 and Vodafone are possibilities. However, see the latest on the Sky dish!

In reply to a post by ARD:

I know the exchange and cabinet number and FTTC had been available for several years. It still says it is on several providers' checkers but not the BT checker.

Other providers may not correctly be spotting that there is no capacity. What does the BT checker indicate for VDSL in the 'WBC SOGEA Availability Date' column? It should be 'Available' if available or 'Waiting list' if there are no spare DSLAM ports or ties. (The 'WBC FTTC Availability Date' will show 'Unavailable' since the PSTN stop sell).

In reply to a post by ARD:

Apparently, there is a communal Sky Dish. The results were typical of a goodish-high FTTC connection.

A shared Sky dish installation only provides satellite TV connections, nothing to do with broadband.

I now realise that. I don't know why I was given the information.

Unavailable.

The residents ' daughter is accessing the Internet from within the flat somehow and speeds are consistent with FTTC. But that does not fit with what I've been told previously.

FTTC ( SoGEA ) will be available unless the cabinet is at capacity ( showing waiting list ) a link to the checker has already been posted , if someone in the flat doesn’t have their own broadband service but is able to get online via ‘Sky’ , presumably Sky have a customer in a neighbouring flat and that person is able to use that neighbours service by using it as a Sky ‘hot spot’ or they are on good enough terms with that neighbour that the password is known and they are simply logged onto that neighbours ‘WiFi’ , either that or as well as communal satellite TV , Sky have also provided a communal broadband service independent of the apparent Openreach copper pair network, but if they have its a pretty unusual setup

Edited by Iniltous (Sun 21-Jan-24 09:34:10)

In reply to a post by ARD:

That site seems very elderly. I know the exchange and cabinet number and FTTC had been available for several years. It still says it is on several providers' checkers but not the BT checker.

This makes no sense.

Can you please go https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/...

screen shot the page - remove the cab and location info and post onto an image host site and post the picture address here.

In reply to a post by ARD:

Unavailable.

The residents ' daughter is accessing the Internet from within the flat somehow and speeds are consistent with FTTC. But that does not fit with what I've been told previously.

People can be remarkably ignorant on how they are actually connected to t'internet.

People can be remarkably ignorant on how they are actually connected to t'internet.

Very true

The flat is wired for Sky. No Hub. She been using her phone connected to a 4/5 G provider to test speeds.

In reply to a post by ARD:

That site seems very elderly. I know the exchange and cabinet number and FTTC had been available for several years. It still says it is on several providers' checkers but not the BT checker.

It's an old site yes, but the info is extremely accurate, using BT Wholesale datasets.
It hasn't been updated with cabinet info since November 2020 but the FTTC rollout was as good as over by then and codelook will have 99% of FTTC cabinets listed, maybe higher.

You haven't said what codelook says? Further down the page you seemed to think broadband was coming from a communual Sky dish.

What exactly does the Wholesale checker say for your address? Can you do what has been suggested already and post a screenshot of the results. Remove the cabinet and exchange details if you have privacy concerns.

Wholesale checker says FTTC is unavailable at this cabinet. The other site you quoted states it became available in 2015.

In reply to a post by ARD:

Wholesale checker says FTTC is unavailable at this cabinet. The other site you quoted states it became available in 2015.

Is this in London, isle of dogs, by chance?

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4750920-...

If you are saying its 17mbps, then at adsl2+ it would likely be very close to the exchange.

In reply to a post by ARD:

Wholesale checker says FTTC is unavailable at this cabinet.

In what way does it say that? What is the exact wording?
The BT Wholesale checker has many little tid bits of information that can help those who know what they are looking for.
The wholesale checker says FTTC is unavailable to every line in the UK. It was withdrawn from sale. Does it even mention FTTC/SOGEA/VDSL Multicast?

Why is it so hard to take a screenshot of the results? Why are your answers so vague?

Why did you reply saying the codelook site I sent you to was old, if it accurately tells you the cabinet has FTTC?

You're not helping yourself by not answering the questions asked by other members.

Good luck. I'm out.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 21-Jan-24 15:32:32)

In reply to a post by Taras:

If you are saying its 17mbps, then at adsl2+ it would likely be very close to the exchange.

I had 16/17 mbps on ADSL2+ and I'm 1.1 miles from the exchange, and an FTTC cabinet was built around 2010 halfway down that route.

I am sorry you are frustrated my “vague” answers. The reason gels with my need for good broadband.

I have multiple physical disabilities. I’ve depended on computers and Internet since the mid-nineties.
to write anything more than a few words in a forum such as this I have to type up the message in MS Word, often moving between keyboard and voice input. It can take hours. I then have to copy/paste the text into the box. The tasks you suggest are easy for some but a day’s work or more for me.

Anyway, thank you for taking an interest.

Yes. its in the same road and slightly under 500 metres away. I usually got above 16 mbps from twice the distance until changing to FTTC.

Obviously none of us knew this. For me I need to apologise. We are all here to help others, that includes helping you. We want you to have the best solution possible.

Is it possible for somebody thats around you to do that screen grab so we can hopefully get to the bottom of the issues and help you to get the long needed upgrade ?

Apologies for the bluntness of my comment. I was obviously unaware of your situation.

Does the Wholesale checker mention VDSL Multicast under all the estimates?

I live alone.

VDSL Multicast is listed as Available under "other offerings".

Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) help 80 67 20 18.9 60 Unavailable Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 80 60 20 17 54.2 Unavailable Available
G.fast Range A (Clean) help -- -- -- -- -- Unavailable --
G.fast Range B (Impacted) help -- -- -- -- -- Unavailable --
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand 1000 220 -- Available --
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) Availability Date
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 17 -- 10 to 19.5 Available
WBC ADSL2+ Annex M Up to 17 Up to 1.5 10 to 19.5 Available
ADSL Max Up to 7.5 -- 6.5 to 8 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
SOADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) WBC SOADSL Availability Date
WBC SOADSL 2+ Up to 17.0 -- 10.0 to 19.5 Available
SOADSL Max Up to 7.5 -- 6.5 to 8.0 Available
SOADSL Fixed Rate Up to 2 -- -- Available
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
ADSL Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange Y
WLR Withdrawal Y
SOADSL Restriction N
FTTP is not available.

As a fibre priority exchange, FTTP has priority over other products if available at the address

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

SOADSL is not restricted at the exchange

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

For all SOADSL services,the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

Actual speeds experienced by end users and quoted by CPs will be lower due to a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service

ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL availability: If shown at FTTP or SOGEA premises,ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL are not available to order due to WLR Withdrawal stop sell rules. CPs should order FTTP or SOGEA. Copper products are only available by exception.

Edited by ARD (Sun 21-Jan-24 17:21:09)

Thank you. It looks like as its a fibre priority exchange, hence why you now can't order fttc, despite being at 80mbits to 60mbits, but because your results are saying

FTTP on Demand 1000 220

it should mean fttp will be shortly with you......Normally when FTTPoD goes to 1000/220 its a precursor for standard fttp.

"FTTC" is unavailable. That's the case everywhere. FTTC as the wholesale checker calls it is just VDSL+PSTN.

PSTN is closed so only SOGEA is available, nationwide. SOGEA is the same thing minus the analogue phone with dial tone.

You will get a minimum of 55Mb but more likely higher. The cabinet has capacity.

In reply to a post by ARD:

VDSL Range A (Clean) help 80 67 20 18.9 60 Unavailable Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 80 60 20 17 54.2 Unavailable Available

You should be able to order a service. Talk to your chosen ISP. Give them the phone number in the flat if you have one for the best estimate of speeds.

I'll be in touch with my current ISP tomorrow. Unfortunately, there's no phone number for the flat.

But the checker appears to be offering ADSL 2+ speed products. Please point me in the right direction if I've missed something. How can you tell that the cab has capacity for faster broadband? I'd be quite happy with the speeds you quote. Thanks.

It shows whatever is available. VDSL (FTTC) and ADSL2+ are both available and you're free to pick either if the provider offers both.

Many providers don't even sell ADSL2+ of VDSL is available.

Full fibre is available from this cab but not to the flats. Most houses in the exchange can get FTTP now. I've held back because I've been hunting for a flat.

But it reads "WBC FTTC AVAILABILY DATE: Unavailable. Next, WBC SOGEA AVAILABILITY DATE: Available.

Does that mean I can get SOGEA at the same speed as VDSL FTTC?

Full fibre doesn't come the cab for openreach products. That aside, i don't know if your flat is lease hold or free hold, but if its the former, (to which i think you have said its is lease hold), to ask the landlords if they have allowed a wayleave for Open reach to install fibre equipment on the property. I'm not sure of how the flats are set up, ie detached or a mdu.

In reply to a post by ARD:

But it reads "WBC FTTC AVAILABILY DATE: Unavailable. Next, WBC SOGEA AVAILABILITY DATE: Available.

Does that mean I can get SOGEA at the same speed as VDSL FTTC?

It's the exact same thing, minus a bundled analogue telephone line.
So yes, at those quoted speeds.

Providers may or may not offer you a digital landline along with the FTTC (SOGEA). It makes no difference to the broadband speeds available.

Re: how I know there's capacity... It would show SOGEA: Waiting List instead of available if the cabinet was at capacity.

You're right, of course. I ought to have said something like houses in the immediate vicinity of the flats have FTTP. Yes, the flat is leasehold. I think FTTP will come about but when is a big question. There are three small MDUs.

Huge thanks. You've been a star.

If you do intend to stay at the property then if you can ask the landlord please do so. If they do say yes they have done so then you may not have to wait too much longer.

Perosnally i'd ask before ordering any new service.

Possibly because there is a Sky broadband service. The the other sections of this website.

I haven't bought the flat yet! Apparently, current residents in the blocks have asked for full fibre. It is probable it will come about as older residents leave and younger people, possibly working from home, move in. I shall add my name if I go for the flat.

You did half mention that you intended to move in before the chaos happened.

Not internet related, but always have a back up house/flat wise if you can.

In reply to a post by ARD:

I am sorry you are frustrated my “vague” answers. The reason gels with my need for good broadband.

I have multiple physical disabilities. I’ve depended on computers and Internet since the mid-nineties.
to write anything more than a few words in a forum such as this I have to type up the message in MS Word, often moving between keyboard and voice input. It can take hours. I then have to copy/paste the text into the box. The tasks you suggest are easy for some but a day’s work or more for me.

Anyway, thank you for taking an interest.

If there is anything specific to our site which is causing problems (i.e. that doesn't affect other websites), we'd very much like to hear about it. I can't promise an instant fix but we would want to do what we can. Feel free to e-mail us on [email protected] if so.

On your specific situation - I was in a simnilar position before where my flat would have very slow ADSL service (Exchgange only cabinet) and nothing decent until both Hyperoptic and Virgin Media rolled into the building. With new build flats (even 10+ yrs old) you can have weird things like this so there's a lot of edge cases. If you want to share the address including postcode via a private message I can try to see if there's anything more we can find out.

Sebastien.

Seb, I hope ard does take you up on the offer and thanks for doing so 😊