One Day When We Switch To Digital Voice.

Also posted on 'Kitz' forum Post

We still use our PTSN phone with No Mobile signals (most) in our village due to the terrain and classed as Vulnerable and we get power cuts.

I know the PTSN system is supposed to be turn off January 2027.

I also know I could port my number that we have had for 42 years to a VOIP provider (but why should I , also If I port the number that will kill our ADSL2 connection ! ).

My setup at the moment =

BT paid Phone line with BT Phone, plus Dect phones ( calls go through an ISP )

ADSL2 over the BT line with a separate ISP with who we get 2000 minutes of free calls a month, then if they are used up we pay any other calls through them Not BT..
Still have large amount of email addresses with this isp.

FTTP (over BT Openreach) with a small ISP.

We have our Own domain for other emails etc.

I intend to wait and see what BT will do about my set up and I will not have another BT broadband account to work the Digital VOIP phones (Unless it's free ).

Any Idea's what could happen. ?

Anyone else in similar situation. ?

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

BT paid Phone line with BT Phone, plus Dect phones ( calls go through an ISP )

ADSL2 over the BT line with a separate ISP with who we get 2000 minutes of free calls a month, then if they are used up we pay any other calls through them Not BT..
Still have large amount of email addresses with this isp.

FTTP (over BT Openreach) with a small ISP.]

Anyone else in similar situation. ?

Just to clarify you have 1 PSTN line for calls and an ADSL2 broadband service, which are billed separately?

Also a separate FTTP service with no phone package or phone service?

Presumably you are a SMPF , ( shared metallic path facility ) customer if you pay BT and an ISP for separate services over the same copper pair , but it seems completely illogical to be doing so ,as the combined cost will be significantly more than both services from a single provider , you hopefully have declared you have broadband another source and as SMPF you obviously can’t lie about that , so you are not entitled to the ‘no broadband’ discount from BT for their phone only service .
As a SMPF customer your migration away from PSTN is likely to be amongst the last to be done so probably well over a year before any decision will need to be made , but I dare say at that point you will need to decide (assuming you want to keep this in addition to your FTTP service ) join the ISP and drop BT or join BT and drop the ISP for both services, but in any case as FTTP is available it’s likely whatever you decide, given it will constitute a recontracting event , they will provide the new service via the FTTP network and any telephony will be IP based .

Edited by Iniltous (Thu 05-Jun-25 18:20:03)

In reply to a post by CJT:

Just to clarify you have 1 PSTN line for calls and an ADSL2 broadband service, which are billed separately?

Also a separate FTTP service with no phone package or phone service?


Yes to both.
Both are business accounts (but we sold the business now) using for domestic.
Will check soon with the ADSL2 isp who I think do domestic phone service but not sure if they have gone over to VOIP yet or will do !
FTTP isp do have business VOIP which is expensive for our needs.

Edited by APTMAN (Thu 05-Jun-25 20:19:39)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

As a SMPF customer your migration away from PSTN is likely to be amongst the last to be done so probably well over a year before any decision will need to be made ,

Yes that's what I was thinking.

Not sure if this new system BT are trying would help my case 'SOTAP for Analogue'
Is this were they are using an ATA type card to do the service.
In our village there are a lot elderly people who still have POT's phones (some with emergency call systems ) who are no way tech savvy who will need help in the switch over to ip based systems.

Edited by APTMAN (Thu 05-Jun-25 20:37:36)

We are in a similar position to yourself.
We have a copper line which carries our long time phone number, FTTP which carries our internet service.
A poor mobile service, it was very poor until recent upgrades which mean we get a signal most times in the garden now.

Where we are different.
I have two VOIP numbers, although neither of these I need, I want the number on the lousy copper line( sometimes it's impossible to use) moved to VOIP with our ISP so that it receives calls, but at present this seems beyond the capabilities of TalkTalk(some might not be surprised at that)
We use Wi-Fi calling for outgoing calls which is cheaper and better than the copper line.
We don't need a phoneline as vulnerable people, good job too, as I've posted before a power cut took out the phoneline for longer than the power was off in the house! Anyway gf has been told if she runs a fever from catching a virus such as common cold, "Don't waste time ringing 999, proceed directly to A&E and produce the card you have been given for immediate treatment"

I do agree older people need help with this change. Speaking to my Aunt recently, she is coming to end of contract with Plusnet, she has multiple health issues, her husband is suffering from dementia, and she doesn't know what to do, I tried to keep it simple on the phone as to what I thought and sent her an email, but she really needs her son in law to sit down and go through it, and he lives 150 miles away from her, as do we.

In reply to a post by burble:

I want the number on the lousy copper line( sometimes it's impossible to use) moved to VOIP with our ISP so that it receives calls, but at present this seems beyond the capabilities of TalkTalk(some might not be surprised at that)

That this is beyond the capabilities of TalkTalk is perhaps an indicator to put your phone line with an independent VoIP service, rather than negotiate this kind of issue when you want to change ISP

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

As a SMPF customer your migration away from PSTN is likely to be amongst the last to be done so probably well over a year before any decision will need to be made ,

Yes that's what I was thinking.

Not sure if this new system BT are trying would help my case 'SOTAP for Analogue'
Is this were they are using an ATA type card to do the service.
In our village there are a lot elderly people who still have POT's phones (some with emergency call systems ) who are no way tech savvy who will need help in the switch over to ip based systems.

I believe SOTAP for analogue is a transitional product for PSTN only customers currently without access to FTTP , as someone who already has FTTP access , I doubt BT will offer you this , that’s assuming you remove the broadband provider from your SMPF service and try to revert it to a basic telephone only service with BT , the clock is ticking though , and although some vested interests managed to postpone the inevitable PSTN retirement until Jan 2027 it’s a risk to assume the deadline will be extended again , so I would have though you need to be making a decision sooner rather than later , that being , do you need to even keep this extra service, and if you do , who should provide it, BT or the ISP .

Edited by Iniltous (Thu 05-Jun-25 23:26:04)

You must be paying far in excess of what is required to get what you want. If you have FTTP then you have no need for ADSL, port the numbers from the lines you want to keep to a provider like Voipfone or A&A and take preconfigured ATA hardware from them if you want, and then cease anything that is left over.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Yes to both.
Both are business accounts (but we sold the business now) using for domestic.
Will check soon with the ADSL2 isp who I think do domestic phone service but not sure if they have gone over to VOIP yet or will do !
FTTP isp do have business VOIP which is expensive for our needs.

Thanks for confirming this, assuming the FTTP service provides you with decent speeds, that you are happy with I would go with what jpm suggested and ditch the ADSL2 service and the PSTN phone service, and move to VoIP.

If the current VoIP service from the FTTP provider is expensive, but is separate to the FTTP service, you maybe able to move both numbers to another provider, or providers.

Do you or anyone in the household use any Telecare service at all?

Hi,

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

As a SMPF customer your migration away from PSTN is likely to be amongst the last to be done so probably well over a year before any decision will need to be made ,

Yes that's what I was thinking.

Not sure if this new system BT are trying would help my case 'SOTAP for Analogue'
Is this were they are using an ATA type card to do the service.
In our village there are a lot elderly people who still have POT's phones (some with emergency call systems ) who are no way tech savvy who will need help in the switch over to ip based systems.

I believe SOTAP for analogue is a transitional product for PSTN only customers currently without access to FTTP , as someone who already has FTTP access , I doubt BT will offer you this , that’s assuming you remove the broadband provider from your SMPF service and try to revert it to a basic telephone only service with BT , the clock is ticking though , and although some vested interests managed to postpone the inevitable PSTN retirement until Jan 2027 it’s a risk to assume the deadline will be extended again , so I would have though you need to be making a decision sooner rather than later , that being , do you need to even keep this extra service, and if you do , who should provide it, BT or the ISP .

SOTAP for analogue is a transitional product for those who have no broadband provision* so wouldn't be an option in this case.

* Technically SOTAP for Analogue cannot be provided to those who have broadband provided over Openreach copper. Whether Openreach would choose to make it available for sale to those who also have an Openreach (or other supplier) FTTP connection is unknown (to me at least).

In reply to a post by DFScale:

In reply to a post by burble:

I want the number on the lousy copper line( sometimes it's impossible to use) moved to VOIP with our ISP so that it receives calls, but at present this seems beyond the capabilities of TalkTalk(some might not be surprised at that)

That this is beyond the capabilities of TalkTalk is perhaps an indicator to put your phone line with an independent VoIP service, rather than negotiate this kind of issue when you want to change ISP

I was halfway through moving that number to Sipgate when they decided to 'abandon' residential services, as 'landlines' become ever less popular I think there is a good chance other VOIP providers may go the same way.

In reply to a post by burble:

I was halfway through moving that number to Sipgate when they decided to 'abandon' residential services, as 'landlines' become ever less popular I think there is a good chance other VOIP providers may go the same way.

Yes, we had an extra sipgate line, which they kept on as legacy, with included EU calls, which was good value. But we abandoned it after the prices went up beyond the value to us of the included calls. Mrs Scale got included EU on her mobile for £10/month more and we transferred the landline to voipfone for £6/month, so overall a saving of about 50%

In reply to a post by jpm:

You must be paying far in excess of what is required to get what you want. If you have FTTP then you have no need for ADSL, port the numbers from the lines you want to keep to a provider like Voipfone or A&A and take preconfigured ATA hardware from them if you want, and then cease anything that is left over.

Agree with what you say here. Would be pretty simple to shave a decent chunk from monthly bills by completely obviating the old+slow ADSL broadband & separately billed PSTN voice service line rental.

About the only other thing I would suggest to the OP is to do some research on local power backup for any voice service carried over FTTP. There are several good DC UPS/Powerbank solutions now on the market that are small and reasonably inexpensive compared to an old fashioned AC UPS. The savings noted above would easily pay for one in two or three months.

Other than that, perhaps the OP could look into a ‘domestic’ ISP (in lieu of the business provider currently in play, but with no longer any business paying the bills) on the FTTP service that can offer a bundled VoIP service - if indeed a “one stop shop” is desirable.

Otherwise go shopping for an indy VOIP provider. Perhaps try a few out and see how they go, call costs work out etc. before porting their cherished number across.

OP is otherwise in a good position with established / active FTTP service and choice (and right now) time to choose. There’s little doubt what will happen - PSTN will be ceased. So…

Final words - better to jump than be pushed. Good luck @APTMAN

Agree with @pheasant and a few others.

You can normally with a residential property move between a business product and consumer products. So as you(@aptman) have said its a business line, once you have come to the end of the contract period - move to a residential fttp product.

That will save you lots of money alone.

You don't have to with the same service provider that provides with internet, for voip. You can go with x for internet and for voip you can go with a, d and f, if you wish.

Try some providers out, some indy services can have poor cs or crazy payment terms.

once you have found your perfected voip service and your out of contract on your adsl service, move the number to voip and than that will cancell your adsl service for you.

Coming back to your original question of "why should i move to voip"

Eventually you will have no choice but to do so (echoing Pheasant again here - don't get pushed because you left it)

In reply to a post by burble:

I was halfway through moving that number to Sipgate when they decided to 'abandon' residential services, as 'landlines' become ever less popular I think there is a good chance other VOIP providers may go the same way.

For clarity to the OP and others reading, Sipgate decided to stop offering the ‘free’ (for monthly subscription cost) Basic/Starter packages to *new* customers.

They have continued to maintain that tier for existing users.

So it’s probably not quite right to say they’ve ‘abandoned’ it. It’s just not available anymore to new customers 😉

Update.
Looking into to do away with ADSL 2 isp and copper pair, (saving about £636 year ) porting the number to AA first.
or
Looking into a completely separate system for the phone (like phones use to be) .

In talks with BT and Openreach Executive office about using a Second port on the ONT (either ONT swap or Another ONT feed in line, as there is a spare 'Lit' port in my 4 way CBT for our property )
possibly using WBC FTTP 0.5 / 0.5 Mbs product plus Smart Hub, Only for VOIP phones... early days yet.

I can only guess there is a r ason for doing this that you are going unwilling to share, as that seems to just feel complicate matters at increased expense

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Update.


In talks with BT and Openreach Executive office about using a Second port on the ONT (either ONT swap or Another ONT feed in line, as there is a spare 'Lit' port in my 4 way CBT for our property )
possibly using WBC FTTP 0.5 / 0.5 Mbs product plus Smart Hub, Only for VOIP phones... early days yet.

Why do you actually need to do this ...... it just costing extra ............

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Update.
Looking into to do away with ADSL 2 isp and copper pair, (saving about £636 year ) porting the number to AA first.
or
Looking into a completely separate system for the phone (like phones use to be) .

In talks with BT and Openreach Executive office about using a Second port on the ONT (either ONT swap or Another ONT feed in line, as there is a spare 'Lit' port in my 4 way CBT for our property )
possibly using WBC FTTP 0.5 / 0.5 Mbs product plus Smart Hub, Only for VOIP phones... early days yet.

You only need a second CBT port ‘lit’ up from the splitter if you got a second complete installation from the CBT including a second separate ONT , if a multiport ONT replaces the existing single port ONT , the CBT capacity etc is irrelevant, your existing optical lead in is used for both services.

Why do you want BT to supply you with either a second complete connection from the CBT with its own ONT etc , or a multi port ONT , and then only require them to supply a ‘DV’ telephone only service on it , when you already have a FTTP from someone other than BT , that presumably can supply you with a VoIP service ? your requirements doesn’t fit in easily with what BT currently offer …..any reason to be so ‘awkward’ and not just add VoIP service to your existing FTTP and cease your ADSL ?

Edited by Iniltous (Mon 30-Jun-25 18:05:47)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Update.
Looking into to do away with ADSL 2 isp and copper pair, (saving about £636 year ) porting the number to AA first.
or
Looking into a completely separate system for the phone (like phones use to be) .

In talks with BT and Openreach Executive office about using a Second port on the ONT (either ONT swap or Another ONT feed in line, as there is a spare 'Lit' port in my 4 way CBT for our property )
possibly using WBC FTTP 0.5 / 0.5 Mbs product plus Smart Hub, Only for VOIP phones... early days yet.

I think you are showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the capability of TCPIP. The whole purpose of the internet and TCPIP is to provide one communications channel for many services. What you want from the internet is hung on the wire in many places across the internet and you extract it in your premises with your own kit. That includes web browsing, on-line games, films, control of your central heating, remote access into security cameras [going the other way]. There is nothing special about telephone service which means it benefits from its own separate internet any more than any other service, once you face up to the inevitable, that all telephony is going on the internet in the medium term.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Update.
Looking into to do away with ADSL 2 isp and copper pair, (saving about £636 year ) porting the number to AA first.
or
Looking into a completely separate system for the phone (like phones use to be) .

Just get a SIP service from AAISP. Porting the number to AAISP will automatically cease the ADSL2 service and the underlying PSTN phone line simultaneously.

Run the SIP service over your FTTP line. Job done.

Buy the Acrobits Softphone app for the grand cost of I think £6 (one-off, no ongoing charge) and then you'll be able to make and receive "landline" calls from anywhere on your mobile phone.

As others have said, you're making this very complicated and adding cost for no benefit

Aptman needs phone minutes so a&a may not be the best route

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

In talks with BT and Openreach Executive office about using a Second port on the ONT (either ONT swap or Another ONT feed in line, as there is a spare 'Lit' port in my 4 way CBT for our property )
possibly using WBC FTTP 0.5 / 0.5 Mbs product plus Smart Hub, Only for VOIP phones... early days yet.

This has got to be the worse misuse of the Openreach Executive office I've ever heard of, what next calling the hospital because of a broke toe nail.

You don't have to have outgoing calls routed via your incoming number provider. I have an AA number - but anything outgoing goes via a totally different provider who
- charges way, way less for calls - about £25 per YEAR
- transmits my AA number as caller ID
- but does not provide incoming numbers themselves.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Update.
Looking into to do away with ADSL 2 isp and copper pair, (saving about £636 year ) porting the number to AA first.
or
Looking into a completely separate system for the phone (like phones use to be) .

In talks with BT and Openreach Executive office about using a Second port on the ONT (either ONT swap or Another ONT feed in line, as there is a spare 'Lit' port in my 4 way CBT for our property )
possibly using WBC FTTP 0.5 / 0.5 Mbs product plus Smart Hub, Only for VOIP phones... early days yet.

As per posts above.

This seems an incredible length to go to; there really is no additional resilience or any other benefits I can think of, only extra cost and complexity.

For what purpose is this required?

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

This seems an incredible length to go to; there really is no additional resilience or any other benefits I can think of, only extra cost and complexity.

Plus the cost of renting the standalone service telephone circuit from BT and the high BT call costs compared to other VOIP providers just doesn't make sense. The OP sold this as trying to save money by cancelling the ADSL circuit but then has added in additional unnecessary circuit cost.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Update.
Looking into to do away with ADSL 2 isp and copper pair, (saving about £636 year ) porting the number to AA first.
or
Looking into a completely separate system for the phone (like phones use to be) .

I am with A&A having ported my PSTN number from TalkTalk to them, I cannot fault them and the charge £1.44 per month for the rental of the number. They charged a one off £12 for the port.

In talks with BT and Openreach Executive office about using a Second port on the ONT (either ONT swap or Another ONT feed in line, as there is a spare 'Lit' port in my 4 way CBT for our property )
possibly using WBC FTTP 0.5 / 0.5 Mbs product plus Smart Hub, Only for VOIP phones... early days yet.

Not quite sure of the purpose of this. I have another account with Voipfone and I paid them £5 to register my PSTN number with them, then if I call anyone I can choose either A&A or Voipfone to make the call from.

Calls back to my landline are routed via a Gigaset N300IP plus my mobile via Acrobits Softphone as recommended on here. It handles both providers.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Update.
Looking into to do away with ADSL 2 isp and copper pair, (saving about £636 year ) porting the number to AA first.
or
Looking into a completely separate system for the phone (like phones use to be) .

In talks with BT and Openreach Executive office about using a Second port on the ONT (either ONT swap or Another ONT feed in line, as there is a spare 'Lit' port in my 4 way CBT for our property )
possibly using WBC FTTP 0.5 / 0.5 Mbs product plus Smart Hub, Only for VOIP phones... early days yet.

As per posts above.

This seems an incredible length to go to; there really is no additional resilience or any other benefits I can think of, only extra cost and complexity.

For what purpose is this required?

Aptman went from "spending too much with every service separate" to 💡 of removing redundent adsl/copper services to "two operate fttp services" thus inflating costs that don't need to be applied

Both of the Executive offices did not mind me talking to them about my odd set up at the moment and ideas about them setting up a totally independent phone service,one said ' it was a change from people moaning about they can not get FTTP and there neighbor can' .

I am pursuing the the idea of the extra ONT port etc supplied by BT. Will cost me £0, as under Ofcom rules it should not cost me any more to get BT Digital voice.

I am quite capable of setting up a VOIP set up through my pfSense firewall over FTTP at the moment, but if in the future that system goes wrong and I am not capable to sort it out do to my health, my wife could not sort it out and she would not have a working phone !.
Remembering as I have said before we do get any mobile signal at all !.

Grandstream HT802 ATA ordered
AA told me they can let me use one of there spare numbers to do some test with VOIP.

Our biggest use of the phone is my Wife calling her sister every day for hours, So I am looking at setting up a 'Asterisk open source pbx VOIP system ' for her to phone her sister for free each day.
Looking at not going through a VOIP provider for this setup.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Our biggest use of the phone is my Wife calling her sister every day for hours, So I am looking at setting up a 'Asterisk open source pbx VOIP system ' for her to phone her sister for free each day.
Looking at not going through a VOIP provider for this setup.

Not an unreasonable plan. You can have more public voips and private asterisks than you can shake a stick at over the one FTTP

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I am quite capable of setting up a VOIP set up through my pfSense firewall over FTTP at the moment, but if in the future that system goes wrong and I am not capable to sort it out do to my health, my wife could not sort it out and she would not have a working phone !

All the more reason to make the system as standard as possible and not mess around with multiple ONT ports.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Will cost me £0, as under Ofcom rules it should not cost me any more to get BT Digital voice.

So out of interest how much is it currently costing you as that is clearly not £0

How much is a standalone (without broadband) telephone service these days? maybe £30 a month? if it is then you'll be paying £360 a year instead of £60ish a year for a VOIP service from another provider.

Having read your post a few more times you speak of a need for

1) a second FTTP service just for BT digital voice
2) a new ATA for VOIP via AA
3) building an Asterisk open source pbx VOIP system

all while keeping things simple for the wife.

Edited by PCJM40 (Tue 01-Jul-25 22:39:47)

+1

just an aside, none of the regs here, in thread, are trying to be horrible, just wanting help you get the best setup possible and spend least amount/best value for money ..

Its easy to see text written that might seem harsh when its not. Hopefully you already know this and everything is good

🍦💚 (using a green heart to tie in with the front page and that the red hearts don't work)

In reply to a post by Taras:

none of the regs here, in thread, are trying to be horrible, just wanting help you get the best setup possible and spend least amount/best value for money

As you say we all want the best for the OP and their wife.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Taras:

none of the regs here, in thread, are trying to be horrible, just wanting help you get the best setup possible and spend least amount/best value for money

As you say we all want the best for the OP and their wife.

yes exactly, i just wanted to make sure aptman knew that

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Both of the Executive offices did not mind me talking to them about my odd set up at the moment and ideas about them setting up a totally independent phone service,one said ' it was a change from people moaning about they can not get FTTP and there neighbor can' .

I am pursuing the the idea of the extra ONT port etc supplied by BT. Will cost me £0, as under Ofcom rules it should not cost me any more to get BT Digital voice.

I am quite capable of setting up a VOIP set up through my pfSense firewall over FTTP at the moment, but if in the future that system goes wrong and I am not capable to sort it out do to my health, my wife could not sort it out and she would not have a working phone !.
Remembering as I have said before we do get any mobile signal at all !.

Grandstream HT802 ATA ordered
AA told me they can let me use one of there spare numbers to do some test with VOIP.

Our biggest use of the phone is my Wife calling her sister every day for hours, So I am looking at setting up a 'Asterisk open source pbx VOIP system ' for her to phone her sister for free each day.
Looking at not going through a VOIP provider for this setup.

Politely, this is crazy. If your intended aim is to keep things 'simple' then asterisk (trust me I've done a few now) is *not* simple. Flexible, yes. Amazingly configurable, yes. Simple - especially to a novice / definitely not.

You can have a cheap, reliable and very simple VOIP service without going over to asterisk. realistically a spend of £50 on an ATA if you want old fashioned handsets or the same on a VOIP capable DECT base on the same FTTP connections as everything else is dead easy and cheap.

REITERATING: There is absolutely *zero* need or requirement to have another separate FTTP connection just for voice. This only adds needless complexity and expense. There is *no* resilience or ease of maintainability benefit running over the same FTTP source network. You're just paying double line rental for absolutely nothing.

You apparently have SMPF from Eclipse/BT , and are looking to replace it with telephony only from BT (via FTTP in your case as FTTP is available ) , but why do you think a telephone only service from BT will be at zero cost ? , it isn’t currently zero with your Eclipse ISP /BT shared metallic path arrangement , and although you have never said what the division of the £636 annual cost is for the shared metallic path service , you obviously pay BT something , probably more that 50% of that £636, this has always been an unnecessarily expensive arrangement, although you do benefit from inclusive calls from Eclipse , something to factor in when taking BTDV , if you do use these inclusive minutes, then BTDV will be very expensive on PAYG , so presumably the Unlimited option on BTDV is the one you would take .

If you accomplish this change to BTDV as a standalone service via FTTP , migrating from SMPF , (Eclipse removed completely ) , the old SMPF terms are obvious no longer valid, the current cost of a telephone only service from BT , with no discount on the fee for not having broadband which obviously you do not qualify for , as you do have broadband from No One ( personally I think a ridiculous name for an ISP ) , is £30 with 30ppm for any outgoing call with PAYG , or £48 if included calls are needed , so a long way from zero and hugely more expensive than adding a VoIP provider to run over your No One FTTP service .

Add to this the undoubtedly rarity (and consequently difficulty ) of providing a BTDV phone only service , something that I have never seen or heard of being provided , either personal knowledge or via forums such as this , ( although the mechanism seems to be a very low bandwidth profile ) I’d suggest getting this won’t be straightforward, AFAIK no service specific BT equipment exists for this , so presumably a standard SH2 router will be provided.

I do think you will be stress testing the provision process if you manage to get an order raised for this ,( SMPF to BTDV only , over FTTP ) possibly as the first ever customer, I dare say all existing phone only BT customers are still on PSTN , and every other SMPF customer ( can’t be that many ) will want a broadband service when they are moved from SMPF as part of the PSTN retirement , I think you may well be unique in your requirements.

It’s possible BT are entertaining you on this , as a way to have a proof of concept type ‘live’ order before shifting existing phone only customers from PSTN , so perhaps you are an unknowing participant in a trial.

It’s difficult to see what your motivation is here , it certainly can’t be economic, if it’s a separation of services , you get no redundancy anyway , as you will still only have a single phone service , the DV service may fail , the router may fail etc , there is no ‘network’ redundancy as the same optics are used for the No One broadband as the BTDV , so a PON fault affects both , the only benefit is if No One go bust with no warning ( and therefore no period to move provider ) your telephone service continues but that’s hardly a realistic concern, it seems to me you are simply being ‘difficult’ for no other reason than it’s possible for you to request this

Edited by Iniltous (Wed 02-Jul-25 08:39:08)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

You can have a cheap, reliable and very simple VOIP service without going over to asterisk. realistically a spend of £50 on an ATA if you want old fashioned handsets or the same on a VOIP capable DECT base on the same FTTP connections as everything else is dead easy and cheap.

To be fair to OP, the asterisk looks more like a side project to allow wife and SiL to speak for hours on end over a private system and provided he gets his public network telephony sorted, it won't be a real problem if one day he can't maintain his asterisk. asterisk.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

To be fair to OP, the asterisk looks more like a side project to allow wife and SiL to speak for hours on end over a private system and provided he gets his public network telephony sorted, it won't be a real problem if one day he can't maintain his asterisk. asterisk.

or use whats app...

I'm lead to believe one of my elderly neighbours had their telephone only service migrated over to use FTTP rather than copper. Having never been into their house I can't say if its true or what equipment they have but that must of happened around 18 months ago. They certainly have a CSP (I saw Openreach install it) but interestingly the checker says 'ONT exists with no active service', they have lived in the house since the early 1940s so the ONT isn't from the previous owners of the house.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

I'm lead to believe one of my elderly neighbours had their telephone only service migrated over to use FTTP rather than copper. Having never been into their house I can't say if its true or what equipment they have but that must of happened around 18 months ago. They certainly have a CSP (I saw Openreach install it) but interestingly the checker says 'ONT exists with no active service', they have lived in the house since the early 1940s so the ONT isn't from the previous owners of the house.

AFAIK there has been no BT instigated migration to DV for phone only customers, but that’s only really my observation, and not necessarily true, I certainly don’t have any inside information about this .
It would be interesting to know if this has happened , a telephone only customer changed to BTDV , contacted out of the blue by BT , in effect BT saying you need to have FTTP to continue with your telephone service (in an FTTP area ) , or we need to convert you to BTDV , irrespective of the underlying tech , ADSL , FTTC or FTTP , but don’t worry it’s the same price , we supply you with a broadband router to run this service, as stated there is no evidence of a service specific equipment to run BTDV instead of a SH2 so anyone provided with this telephone only service in these circumstances would think why do I need a broadband router and I’ve not seen any ‘chatter’ around this if it has happened.

it obviously will be necessary at some point for those that don’t want or need broadband in an area with FTTP available to be migrated , I don’t think that point in time has arrived yet , it’s usually older folk that don’t want broadband, presumably as they do move addresses , into smaller properties , retirement homes , etc and increasingly this will be to an area that has FTTP as the default network, so this is a likely scenario someone wanting a phone only service when they move with FTTP as the default …it would be interesting to know of a real world case .

Edited by Iniltous (Wed 02-Jul-25 10:42:08)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

, it obviously will be necessary at some point for those that don’t want or need broadband in an area with FTTP available to be migrated , I don’t think that point in time has arrived, and as it’s usually older folk that don’t want broadband, presumably they do move addresses and increasingly this will be to an area that has FTTP as the default network, so this is a likely scenario wanting a phine only service …it would be interesting to know of a real world case .

We may see more of this in 2026 and sadly there may be a scramble to get the remaining OR pstn user moved.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

AFAIK there has been no BT instigated migration to DV for phone only customers, but that’s only really my observation, and not necessarily true, I certainly don’t have any inside information about this .
It would be interesting to know if this has happened , a telephone only customer changed to BTDV , contacted out of the blue by BT , in effect BT saying you need to have FTTP to continue with your telephone service (in an FTTP area ) , or we need to convert you to BTDV , irrespective of the underlying tech , ADSL , FTTC or FTTP , but don’t worry it’s the same price , we supply you with a broadband router to run this service, as stated there is no evidence of a service specific equipment to run BTDV instead of a SH2 so anyone provided with this telephone only service in these circumstances would think why do I need a broadband router and I’ve not seen any ‘chatter’ around this if it has happened.

At a roadshow event last year, BT explained to me that in the medium term, the refuseniks will be transitioned to DV anyway, without being told. Essentially, they will effectively get a DV adapter at the exchange or in a cabinet with the existing copper connection to the house.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

AFAIK there has been no BT instigated migration to DV for phone only customers, but that’s only really my observation, and not necessarily true, I certainly don’t have any inside information about this .
It would be interesting to know if this has happened , a telephone only customer changed to BTDV , contacted out of the blue by BT , in effect BT saying you need to have FTTP to continue with your telephone service (in an FTTP area ) , or we need to convert you to BTDV , irrespective of the underlying tech , ADSL , FTTC or FTTP , but don’t worry it’s the same price , we supply you with a broadband router to run this service, as stated there is no evidence of a service specific equipment to run BTDV instead of a SH2 so anyone provided with this telephone only service in these circumstances would think why do I need a broadband router and I’ve not seen any ‘chatter’ around this if it has happened.

At a roadshow event last year, BT explained to me that in the medium term, the refuseniks will be transitioned to DV anyway, without being told. Essentially, they will effectively get a DV adapter at the exchange or in a cabinet with the existing copper connection to the house.

Yes , that’s my assumption for existing phone only customers, it’s those that move address in the post PSTN world that don’t want broadband, or those that have FTTP only (new builds for example) BT don’t seem to have an obvious method to provide only what they want

In reply to a post by DFScale:

At a roadshow event last year, BT explained to me that in the medium term, the refuseniks will be transitioned to DV anyway, without being told. Essentially, they will effectively get a DV adapter at the exchange or in a cabinet with the existing copper connection to the house.

DV at the exchange makes sense and is easier and cheaper in the medium term as you can do it in bulk, over a said time frame. Then deal with the refuseniks post shut off.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

In reply to a post by DFScale:

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

AFAIK there has been no BT instigated migration to DV for phone only customers, but that’s only really my observation, and not necessarily true, I certainly don’t have any inside information about this .
It would be interesting to know if this has happened , a telephone only customer changed to BTDV , contacted out of the blue by BT , in effect BT saying you need to have FTTP to continue with your telephone service (in an FTTP area ) , or we need to convert you to BTDV , irrespective of the underlying tech , ADSL , FTTC or FTTP , but don’t worry it’s the same price , we supply you with a broadband router to run this service, as stated there is no evidence of a service specific equipment to run BTDV instead of a SH2 so anyone provided with this telephone only service in these circumstances would think why do I need a broadband router and I’ve not seen any ‘chatter’ around this if it has happened.

At a roadshow event last year, BT explained to me that in the medium term, the refuseniks will be transitioned to DV anyway, without being told. Essentially, they will effectively get a DV adapter at the exchange or in a cabinet with the existing copper connection to the house.

Yes , that’s my assumption for existing phone only customers, it’s those that move address in the post PSTN world that don’t want broadband, or those that have FTTP only (new builds for example) BT don’t seem to have an obvious method to provide only what they want

Ofcom ignored pstn for years, left it to the market (or basically) and the switch off is a mess, with no proper transition for average joe who can't config a sip device.

I really do lay the blame on ofcom for the mess

In reply to a post by Taras:

Ofcom ignored pstn for years, left it to the market (or basically) and the switch off is a mess, with no proper transition for average joe who can't config a sip device.

I really do lay the blame on ofcom for the mess

Yes, I agree. BT and OR should never have been allowed to get away with proprietary hardware [DV adaptors] for the new digital services. It is a technical barrier to competition and I would have thought Ofcom would have been on top of this.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

AFAIK there has been no BT instigated migration to DV for phone only customers, but that’s only really my observation, and not necessarily true, I certainly don’t have any inside information about this

This person is a difficult customer on the best of days, wouldn't surprise me if they called up BT and asked to be moved over as everyone around them is now on FTTP and they are not one to miss out. The telephone number is no longer recognised by the DSL checker which is a bit of a giveaway that they are now on DV.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

AFAIK there has been no BT instigated migration to DV for phone only customers, but that’s only really my observation, and not necessarily true, I certainly don’t have any inside information about this

This person is a difficult customer on the best of days, wouldn't surprise me if they called up BT and asked to be moved over as everyone around them is now on FTTP and they are not one to miss out. The telephone number is no longer recognised by the DSL checker which is a bit of a giveaway that they are now on DV.

TBH , I’d have thought the DSL checker wouldn’t show ‘no active service’ if the ONT had any service over it , ‘no active service’ suggests that it not currently assigned to any provider , if BT via some sophistry had provided them with BTDV without charging for an underlying BT broadband service , then it would have an active service .

The comment that their telephone number is not recognised isn’t just an indicator of BTDV , it could now be spare , or exported to another CP and return the same ‘no longer recognised’ script from BTw

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

TBH , I’d have thought the DSL checker wouldn’t show ‘no active service’ if the ONT had any service over it , ‘no active service’ suggests that it not currently assigned to any provider , if BT via some sophistry had provided them with BTDV without charging for an underlying BT broadband service , then it would have an active service .

The comment that their telephone number is not recognised isn’t just an indicator of BTDV , it could now be spare , or exported to another CP and return the same ‘no longer recognised’ script from BTw

Just been told they were migrated to BT DV only over FTTP but they have since ceased the service and gone to mobile only so that answers the question why its now showing as inactive

Edited by PCJM40 (Wed 02-Jul-25 14:20:52)

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

TBH , I’d have thought the DSL checker wouldn’t show ‘no active service’ if the ONT had any service over it , ‘no active service’ suggests that it not currently assigned to any provider , if BT via some sophistry had provided them with BTDV without charging for an underlying BT broadband service , then it would have an active service .

The comment that their telephone number is not recognised isn’t just an indicator of BTDV , it could now be spare , or exported to another CP and return the same ‘no longer recognised’ script from BTw

Just been told they were migrated to BT DV only over FTTP but they have since ceased the service and gone to mobile only so that answers the question why its now showing as inactive

It would be interesting to know if they were approached by BT or they approached BT and in either case if they were basically given ‘broadband’ possibly the 0.5Mb. profile , and provided with a standard SH2 for no other reason but to access BTDV , its broadband functionality limited by the low bandwidth and possibly some restrictions placed on the account by the ISP ,and the bill was the same as a PSTN customer with telephone only , or the bill had an entry for broadband but a credit entry equal to the cost made it effectively ‘free’ , TBH I assumed this would be the way things were in addresses that had FTTP only like new builds or a previous occupant had FTTP installed in a retro fitted address , where FTTP is the default

This is the only ‘example’ of standalone BTDV I’ve heard of and as it’s not directly from the user, I’d caveat it with ‘as far as I or we know’ when it comes to telephony only customers that are ‘happy’ with what they have got and resistant to change

Edited by Iniltous (Wed 02-Jul-25 15:34:02)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

I’d caveat it with ‘as far as I or we know’

100% agree

Interesting comments all read with an open mind, thanks all .

With talking to both executive offices about different ideas it was me who suggested what about using the WBC FTTP 0.5 /0.5 Mbps product feed for a separate digital phone line with BBU.
After all that what it was created for (well plus the internet of things as well) so I am trying BT to see if it's going put in at there cost (that is what I meant in my earlier post that said cost me £0 that was for the install not the line and call costs ) , But yes I will be paying them for a standard BT line cost and any calls made on it and we should still get incoming calls on it.
I think it's gone to a higher level at BT at the moment to see if they will put it in..
So it's not gospel that it will get put in yet.

The comments about a Either a separate Fibre feed and 1 port ONT or 4 port ONT came from BT, Openreach comments about that it is the isp choose what produce they buy from Openreach, BT being a isp. so BT may not provide 4 port ONT but put in a separate FTTP feed.

Re PCJM40 ...I'm lead to believe one of my elderly neighbours had their telephone only service migrated over to use FTTP 'ONT exists with no active service'

I think you are seeing the service I am describing above.
Look up there address please and note what it says about WBC FTTP ..............

'Asterisk sytem' is something to do in the evenings than watching TV, a Challenge that keeps my remaining three brain cells active

I'm still at a loss as to why you would want to pay BT for a 0.5Mbps broadband connection to use Digital Voice on when you already have an FTTP internet connection. What is the objection to something like Voipfone's £14 unlimited plan if you are a heavy user of voice calls?

I know you're a former scientist but your proposed solutions seem massively over engineered but at the end of the day if you and your lovely wife are happy with that even after all the good advice you've received on here then I don't know what else us on this thread can say as it appears you're not listening to us and this thread is more of a blog for you.

You stated previously that a advantage of your SMPF arrangement with Eclipse as the ISP and BT as the ‘line rental’ provider, was the included phone minutes via a CPS arrangement (carrier pre select ) with Eclipse which meant BT didn’t charge you for any calls , this presumably means you use the phone extensively for outgoing calls otherwise SMPF was always unnecessarily expensive if you didn’t take advantage of those minutes, so presumably your outgoing calling requirements make BTDV PAYG an extremely expensive choice so presumably you will opt for the £48 BTDV ‘inclusive’ calls option , this makes the value of your supposedly free installation moot, if you claim you don’t make outgoing calls anymore, why maintain the SMPF for as long as you have ?

It frankly beggars belief that you are even pursuing this unnecessary expensive option when it offers nothing extra over simply adding a cheap VoIP provider to your existing FTTP service from No One , you seem to want this arrangement for no other reason than it’s possible to have it , as stated your mind seems set , and as you for the last 10 to 15 years have been using a ludicrously expensive and unnecessary SMPF arrangement, I suppose it follows you want to maintain something equally ludicrously expensive and unnecessary, I’m not sure if BT should ‘love’ or ‘hate’ customers like you , great from an income point of view , awkward in respect of providing what you want

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 04-Jul-25 07:53:34)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

With talking to both executive offices about different ideas it was me who suggested what about using the WBC FTTP 0.5 /0.5 Mbps product feed for a separate digital phone line with BBU.
After all that what it was created for (well plus the internet of things as well) so I am trying BT to see if it's going put in at there cost (that is what I meant in my earlier post that said cost me £0 that was for the install not the line and call costs ) , But yes I will be paying them for a standard BT line cost and any calls made on it and we should still get incoming calls on it.
I think it's gone to a higher level at BT at the moment to see if they will put it in..
So it's not gospel that it will get put in yet.

The comments about a Either a separate Fibre feed and 1 port ONT or 4 port ONT came from BT, Openreach comments about that it is the isp choose what produce they buy from Openreach, BT being a isp. so BT may not provide 4 port ONT but put in a separate FTTP feed.

It looks a crazy idea, but I think I can see why BT might want to talk about it. To my mind, BT-OR were making an anti-competitive move by choosing to go digital with DV rather than VoIP. The legitimate benefits to BT would be not supporting third party VoIP hardware, but it is anticompetitive because you have to have BT or EE internet if you want to keep your phone line with BT. The disbenefits to the consumer are the anticompetitive aspect compounded by having to use the ISP's hardware for your own network - no choice if you have DV.

The downside for BT is that there are plenty of ISPs out there and plenty of VoIP providers. So customers like myself have reluctantly ditched BT telephony for freedom of ISP and LAN hardware. BT hung up on me when I tried talking about having their service over VoIP.

OP's account of contact with the CEO's office suggests to me that BT-OR are actually aware that DV is a showstopper for some customers and that some of their people are thinking about how to address that without overturning a strong corporate decision for DV rather than VoIP. To me, the multiple port ONT solution does not sit right, backed up by most posters here. But in the medium term, it may help BT-OR fend off VoIP until such time as they feel able to offer a VoIP product to residential customers - as they apparently already do for business customers.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Interesting comments all read with an open mind, thanks all .

With talking to both executive offices about different ideas it was me who suggested what about using the WBC FTTP 0.5 /0.5 Mbps product feed for a separate digital phone line with BBU.
After all that what it was created for...

The comments about a Either a separate Fibre feed and 1 port ONT or 4 port ONT came from BT, Openreach comments about that it is the isp choose what produce they buy from Openreach, BT being a isp. so BT may not provide 4 port ONT but put in a separate FTTP feed.

Re PCJM40 ...I'm lead to believe one of my elderly neighbours had their telephone only service migrated over to use FTTP 'ONT exists with no active service'

The 0.5 was created for people with a copper telephone line only, no Internet connection, to provide the piece of string to carry voice.

On ONT existing with no active service whether 0.5M or 10G if the ONT port is mapped to a service it will show as in use.

Interesting use of the executive complaints teams of BT and especially Openreach being used for you to air your ideas on how they should provide you phone service given you've a live ONT there and they haven't switched off the PSTN yet. Good reminder that their incompetent handling of the whole affair has compounded Ofcom's and politicians' failings.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

On ONT existing with no active service whether 0.5M or 10G if the ONT port is mapped to a service it will show as in use.

Sorry the confusing yesterday was I thought wrongly that my elderly neighbour still had their BT DV over FTTP but then learnt they had cancelled and thats why its now showing as 'ONT exists with no active service'.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

OP's account of contact with the CEO's office suggests to me that BT-OR are actually aware that DV is a showstopper for some customers and that some of their people are thinking about how to address that without overturning a strong corporate decision for DV rather than VoIP. To me, the multiple port ONT solution does not sit right, backed up by most posters here. But in the medium term, it may help BT-OR fend off VoIP until such time as they feel able to offer a VoIP product to residential customers - as they apparently already do for business customers.

Openreach aren't responsible for this transition it's down to the individual CPs how they manage their customers. Openreach just provide the fibre.

More likely both are trying to avoid ending up in the Daily Mail for mistreating poor, vulnerable pensioners complete with the obligatory quote from a politician.

DV being tied to their equipment is unlikely to be a consideration. So few people care it's a non-issue for a company with millions of customers.

On the product they offer their regular business broadband customers you have to use their phones or their ATA adapter. Seems to expect you to use their Hub too.

https://business.bt.com/help/guides/getting-started-...

The actual VoIP service they offer they're using RingCentral and it's perhaps a tad excessive for a home phone service.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

On ONT existing with no active service whether 0.5M or 10G if the ONT port is mapped to a service it will show as in use.

Sorry the confusing yesterday was I thought wrongly that my elderly neighbour still had their BT DV over FTTP but then learnt they had cancelled and thats why its now showing as 'ONT exists with no active service'.

Was responding to APTMAN, you'd already clarified.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

DV being tied to their equipment is unlikely to be a consideration. So few people care it's a non-issue for a company with millions of customers.

In the immediate, you are right. But in the longer term, I think it could be problematic.

Once someone, for whatever reason, has gone to VoIP, they are unlikely to go for DV subsequently. I would only do it if the DV adapter could be plugged into a 3rd party router. This would of course make it a drop in replacement for a ATA with a VoIP operator, even if it did not use VoIP. Perhaps this is the product that OP's contacts in the CEO's office are grasping for, even if they don't quite realise.

FWIW , given falling residential voice traffic,I suspect it likely that BT/EE would quite like nothing more to abandon residential telephony completely and leave it to third party providers for those that want it , but the regulator isn’t likely to allow that ….personally I don’t see BT having a proprietary IP telephony service as anti competitive, (it’s also the way Sky and Vodafone have went ) it’s a marketplace , don’t like what one vendor (BT) is offering there is plenty of choice , what’s more BTDV is more secure (so they say ) than a traditional VoIP service , I dare say if BTDV was available via third party equipment, BT supplying the credentials to all and sundry any dispute over call charges will be a lot more complicated to resolve.

As far as the OP is concerned though , they are clearly looking to exploit a workaround for those that genuinely don’t want broadband but require a telephone service , that’s presumably something BT are still obligated to provide , the OP already has broadband so they won’t qualify for the discount on the telephony price BT offer to customers without broadband from any source ( that’s around £13-£15 AFAIK )
Given that the OP uses SMPF /CPS presumably indicated their prior reluctance to using BT as their calls provider, it’s curious why they want to use BT now , given the BT call costs were uncompetitive when they first went to a SMPF solution, and they are hardly more competitive now .

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 04-Jul-25 11:12:47)

The big downside for OR is that providing a 0.5/0.5 service for a property with an existing fttp services means soembody else could miss out on fttp, if it was a new ont install ..

In reply to a post by Taras:

The big downside for OR is that providing a 0.5/0.5 service for a property with an existing fttp services means soembody else could miss out on fttp, if it was a new ont install ..

No, the OP has gone on about having their own CBT with 2 ports lit

Having said that I have just found this historical post

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Today had another surprise when the contractors came back to my manhole opposite our farm gates and said they have to put in a 4 port CBT in the manhole just for my use with only one port being lit for my connection

Edited by PCJM40 (Fri 04-Jul-25 14:07:54)

If the demand on the 4 port CBT was 1 address , then only 1 fibre in the CBT ‘tail’ is spliced through at the splitter , the 3 other CBT ports are ‘dark’ (unlit) , if a second service were needed at the CBT , designed as a full installation, fibre lead in from the CBT , second separate ONT etc. then the second fibre in the CBT tail would need to be spliced to a splitter tail , that in itself requires the splitter to have at least one spare , but as a general rule , 30 not 32 is a self imposed limit splitter limit , so its unlikely that the splitter is maxed out

….providing a multi port ONT has several advantages over a second full installation , no network intervention at the splitter (a big cause of problems is people poking around in the network ) no extra lead in from the CBT , so time saving etc , and the punter doesn’t need to provide an extra power outlet … the downside is logistical , the chances of an installer having a multi port ONT available are (apparently) slim to none existent, even if the order is taken as ‘a multi port ONT may be ordered’ .

FWIW , no one has their own CBT , it’s a network asset, but clearly in some circumstances it’s effectively for a single customer if the CBT location can only serve a single address , in this case the CBT in a manhole so could be be used , for example a new building erected within 300 metres and this manhole was used to provide service to it , wether that’s likely is a different question

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 04-Jul-25 14:30:54)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

FWIW , no one has their own CBT , it’s a network asset, but clearly in some circumstances it’s effectively for a single customer if the CBT location can only serve a single address ,

I know, It was a simple turn of phrase by which I and probably he meant the CBT is only serving one property.

In reply to a post by RetsimLegin:

You don't have to have outgoing calls routed via your incoming number provider. I have an AA number - but anything outgoing goes via a totally different provider who
- charges way, way less for calls - about £25 per YEAR
- transmits my AA number as caller ID
- but does not provide incoming numbers themselves.

Hi RetsimLegin,

Out of curiosity who do use as an outbound provider? If you don't wanna say on here feel free to PM me.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Interesting comments all read with an open mind, thanks all .

With talking to both executive offices about different ideas it was me who suggested what about using the WBC FTTP 0.5 /0.5 Mbps product feed for a separate digital phone line with BBU.
After all that what it was created for (well plus the internet of things as well) so I am trying BT to see if it's going put in at there cost (that is what I meant in my earlier post that said cost me £0 that was for the install not the line and call costs ) , But yes I will be paying them for a standard BT line cost and any calls made on it and we should still get incoming calls on it.
I think it's gone to a higher level at BT at the moment to see if they will put it in..
So it's not gospel that it will get put in yet.

The comments about a Either a separate Fibre feed and 1 port ONT or 4 port ONT came from BT, Openreach comments about that it is the isp choose what produce they buy from Openreach, BT being a isp. so BT may not provide 4 port ONT but put in a separate FTTP feed.

Re PCJM40 ...I'm lead to believe one of my elderly neighbours had their telephone only service migrated over to use FTTP 'ONT exists with no active service'

I think you are seeing the service I am describing above.
Look up there address please and note what it says about WBC FTTP ..............

'Asterisk sytem' is something to do in the evenings than watching TV, a Challenge that keeps my remaining three brain cells active

Talk me through why a plain VOIP service (or multiple if you want to use different providers say for inbound and outbound) over your *existing* FTTP connection is simply not good enough.

Elsewhere in this thread you mention

Will cost me £0, as under Ofcom rules it should not cost me any more to get BT Digital voice.

… it seems to me that the Ofcom rule is saying ‘it should be free to get BTDV ‘
on the FTTP to your property not it should be free to request and entirely separate fibre feed to a separate ONT , just to provide BTDV.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Talk me through why a plain VOIP service (or multiple if you want to use different providers say for inbound and outbound) over your *existing* FTTP connection is simply not good enough.

The OP's blog looks like it has stopped!

Been talking a lot to both 'Executive' offices.

Basically what I suggest is correct and I can have an independent stand alone BT Digital Voice point put in for

FREE

They said.

' If you are a BT landline-only customer, you should not pay more for the Digital Voice service than you currently pay for your landline.'


Facts
1...BT told me they cannot supply a 4 port ONT ! as they do not buy them from Openreach.


They can only offer another separate fibre line and ONT.

So if they do this all over the country then that is going to use up any spare Fibre network capacity, odd very odd.


2... BT also said because of our age, the fact we get power cuts (like the one last week during the storm) and with no mobile signal .

They said.
If you are classed as vulnerable or in an area prone to power cuts you would be sent a battery back up as mentioned previously but this would only support the hub only. ???

So I pointed out that to conform with the Ofcom rules the ONT has to have a BBU to make the system work .

I asked Openreach who said

Unfortunately we in Openreach do not supply a BBU for our ONT’s.

I have asked BT to point this anomaly to there higher management.

.............................................................................................................................................................

Some of you cannot understand to make this to work, it with have a FTTP 0.5 /0.5 Mbps feed to the ONT, that's what the VOIP will need to transport the Digital voice over.
That will be Free I do not have to pay extra for it will be a part of the BT line rental fee.
It is what makes it work.
Think of that FTTP as the Battery voltage in the PTSN system.

.........................................................................................................................................................
By the time I am ready for this I will had got rid of my ADSL 2 isp over the copper pair this will revert back our phone onto the BT line.

I will still have my other FTTP supply.

Still looking into FRE PBX system (when I have some spare time) which is installed on a spare machine.

The fact that we will have a separate BT digital phone system does not mean we will be using it to make calls from at there prices.
Depends how Free PBX goes, we could get another number from AA and have VoIP on my other FTTP.
Early days yet.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Facts
1...BT told me they cannot supply a 4 port ONT ! as they do not buy them from Openreach.


They can only offer another separate fibre line and ONT.

So if they do this all over the country then that is going to use up any spare Fibre network capacity, odd very odd.

So I pointed out that to conform with the Ofcom rules the ONT has to have a BBU to make the system work .

I asked Openreach who said

Unfortunately we in Openreach do not supply a BBU for our ONT’s.

I have asked BT to point this anomaly to there higher management.

On the first point not really. How many people do you reckon have a BT copper landline and full fibre from someone else? Nearly zero.

BT do not and have never used the 4 port ONTs. Their provisioning system can't use any ports other than the first one on the ONT. The one I have was provided by Openreach due to a provisioning error leaving no spare ports on the PON and a requirement for two separate services for working from home during pandemic. BT services were only ever on the first port.

The regulation on a BBU is from Ofcom and both Openreach and BT are quite aware: they are humouring you with your reporting of an anomaly. Openreach stopped providing BBUs years ago, my own estate the early properties have a BBU, the later ones after the regulation change do not.

Your being able to get the second FTTP circuit without paying for install is an edge case and entirely legit however with the pricing you'll have paid the install costs back in pretty quick time so not like BT will mind 😊

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

On the first point not really. How many people do you reckon have a BT copper landline and full fibre from someone else? Nearly zero.

BT do not and have never used the 4 port ONTs. Their provisioning system can't use any ports other than the first one on the ONT.

So, given OP's contact was with Openreach, would I be mistaken to read between the lines that Openreach originally decided to make multiport ONT's available as the means to provide for non-BT ISP's but retain the telephony business within the BT-OR group. But BT see DV adapters on the router rather than on an ONT port as the means to take advantage of customer inertia to become the only ISP able to offer BT-OR telephony [and in the process drive away telephony customers who are intent on having their own choice of ISP, even at the expense of losing BT-OR telephony.

The early generation of Openreach ONT with a phone port was for the short lived Openreach service , FVA , Fibre Voice Access , and like all Openreach products was available to purchase from any CP/ISP who wanted to consume them , but this involved OR in the telephony business, something they don’t want to be in , and although admittedly would have made telephony only provision easier for providers that want to be in that game , there are none , BT are obliged to offer it (otherwise I doubt they would ) no one else does offer standalone telephony , OR don’t want to be in that space , and AFAIK only BT ever took that FVA product, , I doubt there will be many if any customers still on FVA .

Proprietary versions of VoIP , supplied by the ISP via their own equipment, a port on the router is the preferred route for ISP that want to also supply telephony, this in no way limits traditional VoIP supply if that’s preferred by the customer, it’s only ‘awkward’ consumers such as the OP that seem to want to push at the limit of what’s available even if its unnecessarily expensive , for both themselves and the CP, there will be genuine telephone only customers that will need the products the OP wants , it just the OP doesn’t need them and consequently will pay handsomely for the privilege.

As an aside, In BT’s case a DV adapter is just an optional accessory, converting a corded phone into a DECT ‘cordless’ phone capable of connecting to the DECT basestation within the BT SH2 router , they are not necessary as far as BTDV is concerned, (I have BTDV but don’t want or need a DV adapter, my phone connects directly to the SH2) , uniquely BT feel obliged to supply these adapters as a sop to those that complain that their phone isn’t anywhere near the router , whereas Sky and Vodafone, and probably others , provide no such thing for their customers, they are a nice to have rather than a must have .
I dare say the OP will be requesting their ‘free’ BT DV adapters as well as the ‘free’ conversion to FTTP from their soon to be broadband free copper pair service , their ‘free’ BBU for the router , and they hope a free BBU for the ONT (good luck with that ) , but at a minimum of £360 , ‘free’ isn’t really how I would describe the OP’s intentions, ludicrous is a more ‘apt’ description .

Edited by Iniltous (Sat 12-Jul-25 09:02:36)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

... this involved OR in the telephony business, something they don’t want to be in ...

I can understand OR not wanting to do old school telephony with all that strowger and copper. But per minute telephony on top of infrastructure you already collect on monthly seems like a no brainer. But it is going to the voip operators.

Domestic telephony is pretty much a niche product, and in permanent decline, although I maintain a DV phone service, I’ve never made an outgoing call using it , my grown up children have broadband but no telephone service , and although it’s a sweeping generalisation I’d bet the younger generation just won’t bother with landlines , my generation the international gesture for ‘ I’ll give you a call’ is the little finger and thumb of one hand extended and held near the ear , a child will have no understanding of that , the equivalent is looking at the palm of their hand .
Like any niche product, it’s not likely that any mainstream company will be sufficiently interested and leave it to the niche providers, and as Openreach are not customer facing , they would need a product and hope others will offer it , I dare say the poor take up of FVA showed the industry just didn’t want it .

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Basically what I suggest is correct and I can have an independent stand alone BT Digital Voice point put in for

FREE

A standalone BT Digital Voice service is NOT FREE it costs you around £30 a month, included in that £30 is a very very slow FTTP service.

Likewise if you took BT Broadband and BT Digital Voice you wouldn't be paying the £30 a month for the BT Digital voice bit so the £30 is really for the FTTP to carry the BT Digital voice to your property (AKA line rental).

To be totally frank if you go a head with this it will probably be the most stupid broadband decision I have ever come across.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Been talking a lot to both 'Executive' offices.

Basically what I suggest is correct and I can have an independent stand alone BT Digital Voice point put in for

FREE

Except it isn't, because you will pay over the odds for a standard connection over fttp but at copper prices.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

They said.

' If you are a BT landline-only customer, you should not pay more for the Digital Voice service than you currently pay for your landline.'

but you have fttp. So that should exclude you from it .

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

The fact that we will have a separate BT digital phone system does not mean we will be using it to make calls from at there prices.
Depends how Free PBX goes, we could get another number from AA and have VoIP on my other FTTP.
Early days yet.

With the best caring intent, i just don't understand why you are gunning for a separate digital voice line.

You simply do not need one......

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

The fact that we will have a separate BT digital phone system does not mean we will be using it to make calls from at there prices.
Depends how Free PBX goes, we could get another number from AA and have VoIP on my other FTTP.
Early days yet.

How are you actually planning to use this service since it's presented on a BT phone socket and you'll need to buy extra hardware if you want to integrate it with a PBX or similar?

BT's home phone line service if you have broadband is £30 a month with PAYG call rates, an unlimited plan is £48 so as well as taking up loads of your time while you try and do something unnecessary, you're going to pay an awful lot for it.

re .. BT said to me
I can have an independent stand alone BT Digital Voice point > put in < for free

I am not sure why you cannot see the words PUT IN

Yes of coarse I will be paying a Monthly rental.

I pay £28.40 a month now
But
When the ADSL is removed from the copper pair I will qualify for the £18.11 Discount.
If my calculator is correct that will be £10.29 a Month, That's not going to break the bank

Re 2 .. BT also said to me.
'If you are a BT landline-only customer, you should not pay more for the Digital Voice service than you currently pay for your landline.'

The clue is in the words 'Land Line Only Customer'
eg with no broadband on the copper pair, The fact I have FTTP with 'A N Other' BT said that did not
matter.

I would think most of you can get a Mobile phone signal

In my office now looking at my phone I have NO Mobile Signal At All.
With the fact we get power cuts, some time for hours.
WE are both classed as Vulnerable do to age, but at the moment fit and well..

So I need a system to call 999 if we need it urgently (Remember NO Mobile Signal !)
Hence a Stand alone BT Digital Voice phone with BBU that will work in a power cut.

If we had a good mobile signal I probably would not need the above.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

In my office now looking at my phone I have NO Mobile Signal At All.
With the fact we get power cuts, some time for hours.
WE are both classed as Vulnerable do to age, but at the moment fit and well..

So I need a system to call 999 if we need it urgently (Remember NO Mobile Signal !)
Hence a Stand alone BT Digital Voice phone with BBU that will work in a power cut.

If we had a good mobile signal I probably would not need the above.

That is a heck of a lot of effort to get a BBU. You can do the same with an ONT for your whole internet, a router with DV or a router with a separate ATA and the appropriate battery back up.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

When the ADSL is removed from the copper pair I will qualify for the £18.11 Discount.
If my calculator is correct that will be £10.29 a Month, That's not going to break the bank

Re 2 .. BT also said to me.
'If you are a BT landline-only customer, you should not pay more for the Digital Voice service than you currently pay for your landline.'

The clue is in the words 'Land Line Only Customer'
eg with no broadband on the copper pair, The fact I have FTTP with 'A N Other' BT said that did not
matter.

Your line-only discount on the price guide states this:

"Eligibility subject to review. Discount may be removed for BT residential households with a fixed line broadband service from any provider"

https://img01.products.bt.co.uk/content/dam/bt/store...

Why do you think you will benefit from the ‘no broadband’ discount , that is for genuine no broadband from anyone customers, you obviously have FTTP broadband from No One so you don’t qualify, you may be dishonest and lie , falsely claiming you don’t have broadband and hoping there is no way for BT to know of your arrangement with No One , and try to justify your dishonesty by claiming as you don’t have BT broadband you qualify, but it’s no broadband from any vendor not just BT , so you don’t qualify , I’m sure you already knew that , you certainly can’t claim to not know that now , are you sticking your incorrectly calculated figure or do you accept what you should pay ?

As stated repeatedly, the charge for landline only type service on a PAYG basis is currently around a little over £30 a month …hopefully if you try and ‘con’ BT into providing a you with a discount when you don’t qualify for one , they will be wise to that fraud (after all it’s easy using public checkers to see you have an active service on your ONT ) and treat you in the appropriate way

Edited by Iniltous (Mon 14-Jul-25 09:39:34)

To be honest I am not sure exactly what the criteria is for this discount, does anyone know for sure?

Is it

1) No (paid for) broadband active on the circuit providing the telephony service.
2) No (paid for) broadband in the same name as the customer at said address.
3) No (paid for) broadband in any name at said address.

You're clearly a very intelligent person set in your ways so it must be very hard to accept that some of us less intelligent people out here may have a good point. If you're concerned that should you not be around things are to complicate for the wife make provisions for that on your current FTTP. You don't need a standalone DV service to achieve everything you want. You're proposed solution is so over engineered and more costly than a much simpler solution.

Also its not just BT DV that can provide you with a 999 service, my truly FREE Sipgate service has a 999 service.

Always remember the K.I.S.S acronym.

Edited by PCJM40 (Mon 14-Jul-25 09:04:41)

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

To be honest I am not sure exactly what the criteria is for this discount, does anyone know for sure?

Is it

1) No (paid for) broadband active on the circuit providing the telephony service.
2) No (paid for) broadband in the same name as the customer at said address.
3) No (paid for) broadband in any name at said address.

From the link provided
* Customers with landline-only (who receive a discount, as they don’t have broadband with us or any other supplier) will not see a change to their prices.

The OP undeniably has broadband from another supplier, TBH , it’s always been pretty clear , you can’t have a BT supplied telephone service / line and have the price discounted if you have any broadband service from anyone else , the discount was recognition of being something of a refusenik regarding broadband, so to lie to benefit from the discount when taking broadband service from someone else is objectionable .
I dare say any argument saying the existing broadband is at my address but it’s my spouse , children , lodgers service that I can’t access etc would still be against the spirit of the restriction and likely accounted for in the T&C’s , even if not specifically mentioned there is a general ‘we refuse the right’ covers any such bogus claim (which the OP has never made anyway )

The ‘no broadband from anyone clearly includes other networks, and is any network the residents can reasonably access , the only grey area is mobile broadband, and generally is accepted as not a disqualification for the discount , but in the OP’s case , they are already using broadband in their name on the Openreach network anyway

Edited by Iniltous (Mon 14-Jul-25 09:34:41)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

To be honest I am not sure exactly what the criteria is for this discount, does anyone know for sure?

Is it

1) No (paid for) broadband active on the circuit providing the telephony service.
2) No (paid for) broadband in the same name as the customer at said address.
3) No (paid for) broadband in any name at said address.

From the link provided
* Customers with landline-only (who receive a discount, as they don’t have broadband with us or any other supplier) will not see a change to their prices.

The OP undeniably has broadband from another supplier, TBH , it’s always been pretty clear , you can’t have a BT supplied telephone service / line and have the price discounted if you have any broadband service from anyone else , the discount was recognition of being something of a refusenik regarding broadband, so to lie to benefit from the discount when taking broadband service from someone else is objectionable , the ‘no broadband from anyone clearly includes other networks, the grey area is mobile broadband, and generally is accepted as not a disqualification, but in the OP’s case , ithey are already using the Openreach network anyway

the other gray area is - is it per person or per property.

i will now sit and 🍿 because, I can't keep on saying this whole thing is nuts. I just can't understand the logic to it

The OP previously said they were looking at getting rid of the SMPF ADSL with Eclipse and the copper pair BT telephony ( the entire SMPF service ) and said this would save them £636 a year , that’s £53 a month , which gives the scale of the unnecessary expense they are voluntarily paying and have presumably done so for years , but that was a previous ‘plan’ to get rid of both services.

As they now state they pay £28 .40 a month , that can only mean this is the BT payment on their SMPF arrangement, and they are incorrectly removing a £18.11 discount they are not entitled to , to reduce that to £10.29 .

If £53 is the current monthly total and £28.40 of it represents the payment to BT for the line rental portion (with calls they don’t use) , the remainder must be £24.60 to Eclipse for broadband with inclusive calls .

Getting rid of Eclipse they assume ( and I’d agree ) will leave them paying BT for a landline only service for £28.40 , and without any intervention I’d suggest that will continue , they will be like the majority of PSTN phone only customers, and left alone to much nearer Jan 2027 .
If the OP approaches BT , once Eclipse are ceased ( that’s assuming ceasing a part of the SMPF arrangement doesn’t itself raise some WLR problem ) , and insists on conversion to BTDV ,’for free’ with the accompanying free BBU for vulnerable customers, and with a discount on the £28.40 they pay for ‘line rental’ , the question they will undoubtedly face is ‘do you have broadband from someone else’

…..best case is they keep quiet when Eclipse are removed and continue to pay £28.40 or they push to be on FTTP BTDV and pay £30.20 , the discount only available if they tell lies , or they simply add a VoIP service to No One ( the obvious choice given their apparent antipathy towards BT unless they can get freebie’s and an unwarranted discount) , and buy a BBU themselves capable of powering the ONT and router for a brief period…..

Edited by Iniltous (Mon 14-Jul-25 10:33:18)

Do Not Judge A Book By It's Cover

We will have less of this 'you may be dishonest and lie' Talk !.

as this point was unclear I contact again BT Allison Kirkby, Chief Executive office.

They know all the facts about my connection As I TELL THE Truth so they know I have two isp .

there answer tonight was :.

Thanks for your email.

Yes, it would effect the discount as normally you receive the discount if there is no broadband service coming into the property.

As you do have broadband coming into the property then yes it would normally affect the discount and mean that you are not eligible for this discount.

Hope this answers all your questions.


So that made that clear if that comes up on the forum again.
If you do not ask then you will not know, that;s why I asked them.

You were told several times that the ‘no broadband discount’ wasn’t available to you as you already had a broadband service in fact you currently have two and would still have broadband after getting rid of Eclipse , but you continued to suggest that you were entitled to the discount to the point you illustrated what you expected to pay once your SMPF broadband was reduced to a telephone only ‘line’ , even though you would still have a broadband service ,….now you have had confirmation from a source you believe, confirming what you were told would be the case multiple times , at least you are no longer fooling yourself over what the actual costs will be, you say you contacted BT again because this point was unclear , I disagree , it was never unclear , it always was obvious someone with broadband didn’t qualify for a discount for not having broadband, but at least you are no longer suffering under that misapprehension.

I try to chose my language carefully and didn’t accuse you of anything, but if someone contends that they will get a discount when they clearly do not qualify, it’s not unreasonable to suggests that to do so they would have to resort to nefarious means to obtain that discount , especially if they state they will get the discount when told that they simply don’t qualify……happily that’s not going to be the case here

Edited by Iniltous (Mon 14-Jul-25 23:29:19)

I may be used as the reason because of my question below

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

To be honest I am not sure exactly what the criteria is for this discount, does anyone know for sure?

Is it

1) No (paid for) broadband active on the circuit providing the telephony service.
2) No (paid for) broadband in the same name as the customer at said address.
3) No (paid for) broadband in any name at said address.

Although you immediately came back and fully answered the question for me (and hopefully everyone else)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

If you do not ask then you will not know, that;s why I asked them.

If saving money is an objective then start a new thread and people will give you a list of services to subscribe to and equipment to purchase. £30/month before call charges can buy a lot of top-tier equipment, and something like an Anker C300 with USB-PD trigger cables for your router, ONT and ATA to keep them powered for probably a few days.

In reply to a post by jpm:

If saving money is an objective

Well No It's Not, it's piece of mind like the BT phone line is now, it works 99% of the time.

Things would be a lot different if we had reliable mobile phone signal.


After we came across a box of old telephones when I went with my dad to the local car scrap yard, the scrap man gave them to me,
I built my first telephone exchange at about the age of 12
from old PO relays, a Uniselector Etc. that could call from any room to room in my parents house and down the long garden to the greenhouse, it had dialing tones, ring tones and ac bell ringing, I learnt about how to make it work by going to the local reference library and reading about telephone exchanges .

when I have time
as I am Still building for the last 38 years parts of our property were we live, which my wife and I have built it all our self's )

I am playing about with this electronic PBX.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I built my first telephone exchange at about the age of 12
from old PO relays, a Uniselector Etc. that could call from any room to room in my parents house and down the long garden to the greenhouse, it had dialing tones, ring tones and ac bell ringing, I learnt about how to make it work by going to the local reference library and reading about telephone exchanges .

I for one have bigged you up a lot in this thread but you don't seem to be reading the room very well. Everyone is telling you the same thing but you're sadly just not listening.

Mmmm, bit of a memory test for me , but in a Strowger exchange, dialtone was from a tone generator that also supplied ringtone and ringing current as well as various other tones and timing pulses ,dialtone to a telephone was delivered via first selector , and ringtone /current delivered from a final selector , perhaps you had access to these things as well as a uni selector, even back them , there was ‘contention’ , group /first selectors are more expensive than uni selectors, so (for example) 50 uni selectors had access to 10 first selectors, rather than each customer connected direct to their own first selectors…so in a home setup , the equipment that can probably be dispensed with is a uni selector, unless you had several group (first selectors) along with a 50v /95v power supply etc for you fully specified exchange

Edited by Iniltous (Wed 16-Jul-25 07:46:29)