Fibre Broadband

I have just been told by BT that despite most of Crawley now having fibre broadband our 200 newish housing estate will not be getting it as for the reason BT don't know or aren't saying
Zen don't know either and with a ongoing ADSL2 connection problem thing's my end are not so good

The whole estate being just 4 years old has always had a problem with one thing or another never a month goes by when everything is settled hence the need to move on to newer technology
There is no doubt our estate keeps the BT engineers working at full capacity it's just a pity that they don't fix things as i would like and being just 3 miles from the exchange i would have hoped for a better service but as i say that ain't going to happen

As for getting Fibre Broadband well it looks like that isn't going to happen either

Maybe their is someone who i could write to and find out ? I did ask BT but you guessed it they don't know well i think that's what the young lady said in the far east

Just a update in that it now seams that after 4 years of on going problems on our estate it appears we do have a faulty cable somewhere at the start of our estate effecting half the residents only so a new cable will have to be ordered and i dare say the main road dug up outside the estate and the new cable laid

Why this hasn't been picked up by senior BT engineers over the past 4 years remains a mystery
As for the senior zen technical staff they are now determined to get this sorted once and for all they probably would have got it sorted earlier but with me being their only customer on the estate who is not the sort of person to kick up a fuss until now that is this fault could have gone on for ever and a day

My thanks go to Wasim at zen for now taking control of this fault and trust we can now move forward on a more positive note and that the estate gets fixed once and for all

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Wed 29-Feb-12 15:11:15)

Depends on the type of fault, if telephone services remaining within spec for USO purposes then BT is doing all it needs to do.

As for FTTC, if those 200 are served by more than one cabinet, then number of lines per cab at such a low level would be problem. Or it is possible that the lines are direct to the exchange with no cabinet involved.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Depends on the type of fault, if telephone services remaining within spec for USO purposes then BT is doing all it needs to do.

As for FTTC, if those 200 are served by more than one cabinet, then number of lines per cab at such a low level would be problem. Or it is possible that the lines are direct to the exchange with no cabinet involved.

It is only a adsl fault so I'm told not voice. Just a up and down poor speed averaging 2 to 4mbps across the estate but dipping every few minutes to 0.1 mbps for a couple of minutes or so and then very erratic thereafter

As for the Fibre Broadband we haven't even got the cabinet the nearest one being 500 meters from our estate which is all up and running very well so I'm told
Our estate runs in a straight 3 mile line to the exchange with the Fibre Broadband cabinets spaced our accordingly

Just another update in that a BT engineer will be calling out again today to try to fix the fault as the cost of the new pipe is to expensive and BT cant afford a new one
It doesn't look very hopeful at all a bit of a farce if ever their was one on a 4 year old estate

The open reach engineers have now stated that the lines are just noisy on the estate and that replacing the pipe will not cure the fault so that if we went down that route we would have to pay for it

The BT engineer was very helpful in explaining that ADSL was a poor conductor for broadband hence the ongoing problems on the estate over the past 4 years and said it will take time to find out where this noise was coming from and who was generating it as if they don't find it for whatever reason you will not get fibre and will be stuck forever with a faulty broadband system which will only be good for browsing the internet only

I have been given the phone number of Tony Estcourt, Head of BT wholesale as to find a way forward at the estates expense which may include putting fibre in hoping that's cures the fault as for anything else at this time i think we are all in the dark ?

A bit more help from the senior Zen management team wouldn't go a mis so do please make sure that they get to grips with this and not leave me to do their work

thanks

PS

The bottom line is from zen is and quoting BT is that providing you can browse the net ONLY then legally that is all that is required from BT and they are under no further obligation whatsoever in providing a better service under a ADSL OR ADSL 2 contract ?

I would also like to thank cisco in the USA for providing me with an additional new router at no charge so as to rule out any potential fault with the one they sold to me in January 2012

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Thu 15-Mar-12 14:33:21)

Pipe - what do you mean? New ducting? Or referring to copper wire?

Guide to cost of FTTC is around £30,000 to £40,000 per cabinet. Remember BT Wholesale don't put the cabinets, they are just another customer of Openreach who do the actual work and service provision in the local loop.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Pipe - what do you mean? New ducting? Or referring to copper wire?

Guide to cost of FTTC is around £30,000 to £40,000 per cabinet. Remember BT Wholesale don't put the cabinets, they are just another customer of Open reach who do the actual work and service provision in the local loop.

Hi Mr Saffron
I would think that the engineer was meaning a block of new cable wires but as i have said above the noise coming from the estate is to high and he felt that new wires would not be the answer and it would be better to go door to door to track down on where this noise was coming from

He did say that he may not be given the go a head to do this as that procedure is in uncharted territory and a householder can refuse permission to cooperate

I myself have been able to access many of the houses over the years just by being a friendly neighbour that and being helpful with computers has normally proven sufficient in getting a foot over the door and helping someone from a unnecessary expense and trip to PC world

The standard of what i have found at the computer level in the majority of the houses that i have been in is not what i would have expected from an estate of this type of customer but each to his own

Some have the router round the back of the TV with all of the wires mangled together in a spaghetti fashion along with sky boxes etc down to keyboards littered with crisps etc
Their computer environment is all a mish mash which is odd as the rest of the house is very clean and not much to find fault their

The outside also being top notch and welcoming just a pity about the inside computer environment

I myself wasn't even aware that noise could leak out from someone's else and destroy most of the estate so i have learned something

I have another BT engineer coming over to the estate tomorrow and will report back with his findings

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Thu 15-Mar-12 18:38:26)

Sounds like guff to me.

Are you on Crawley or Pound Hill?

Virgin are active throughout the area.

Edited by deleted (Thu 15-Mar-12 20:27:38)

In reply to a post by partial:

Sounds like guff to me.

Are you on Crawley or Pound Hill?

Virgin are active throughout the area.

We come under the crawley exchange and virgin are not active and have told us they never will be in our area bordering gatwick airport

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Thu 15-Mar-12 22:16:48)

It may be the case that BT are describing a REIN issue - so interference from somebody's electrical equipment is causing the issue in that area. We've seen a number of these cases over the years (due to faulty TVs, digital boxes, EPOS systems etc.) so it isn't outside the realms of possibility that this is the kind of issue being talked about. We've got a bit of an explanation of these issues here.

ta,
Phil.

If you are very close to the Airport, or the cable runs past/through the airport it is possible that all the lines will suffer from interference. Airports are notoriously busy electrical sources across the whole electro/magnatic spectrum.

If it is the Cable running past/through then Fibre should improve the position significantly. Finding the source of the interference would be a nightmare and this is likely to be only long term cure,

If you and the cable are nothing to do with the Airport look for a consistent source of electrical activity and this could be the source. ( Sub-station, factory, generators, etc).

Why dont you tune your car radio to 600mhz am and have a drive around the estate? I believe ADSL works on 300mhz but you can hear it at double the frequency ie 600mhz.

When I do it and drive around the estate you can hear the adsl signal as you drive under the telegraph cables. At the top of the estate next to the PCP it buzzes like crazy as you drive over the E Side cables burried under the road.

You never know if its something like a faulty street light cuasing the REIN you may be able to hear it as you drive by.

My car radio only sets to a frequency near to 600mhz, I think its 616.

Only problem is im based up in Derbyshire and even up here you (depending on the weather) you can here some [censored] french radio station. At Crawley you are much closer to France so maybe you will hear it all the time there.

Give it a try, you dont know what you my suss out!

Paul

or get yourself a second hand YUPITERU MVT-7100 radio scanner from ebay, they are cheap enough now.

You could set that to the exact frequency and pin point things better.

ADSL actually works in the range 25KHz to 1.1Mhz, ADSL2+ is up to 2.2MHz

Strange you can def hear it at around 600mhx am on a radio

Not strange at all, ADSL uses the full range of frequencies look at a bin plot to see this

In reply to a post by Ripley:

Why dont you tune your car radio to 600mhz am and have a drive around the estate? I believe ADSL works on 300mhz but you can hear it at double the frequency ie 600mhz.

. . .

My car radio only sets to a frequency near to 600mhz, I think its 616.

Somebody is confusing MHz with kHz.

The base fundamental frequency is 306 kHz but, for convenience, 612 kHz is used when seeking out sources of REIN, SHINE or PEIN with a domestic type of radio.

thanks burakkucat


That will be me confusing MHZ & KHZ. Thats why I was puzzledwhen Mr Saffron told me the frequencies used. All makes sense now how you can hear it on the car radio

In reply to a post by SkyFire:

It may be the case that BT are describing a REIN issue - so interference from somebody's electrical equipment is causing the issue in that area. We've seen a number of these cases over the years (due to faulty TVs, digital boxes, EPOS systems etc.) so it isn't outside the realms of possibility that this is the kind of issue being talked about. We've got a bit of an explanation of these issues here.

ta,
Phil.

Hi Phil
The BT engineer called again yesterday and put in another master socket v10 and on leaving it was stable at 3mb he then went on to the main cabinet and screwed up our phone line so we were getting other peoples phone calls
The engineer called me today at 7am to apologise and said all was well and i was getting a speed of 5mb and could i go on line to confirm in which i did and it stayed up till 10am before going completely off line

I am now back on line but is intermittent

The technician at zen who i have spoken to today is insisting my master socket is in some way to blame despite me telling him that BT have replaced it twice over the past month and i also have had someone come over who specialises in communication to use one of his master sockets just in case BT had got a faulty batch ?

I for the life of me cant see this as the 4 year old problem for the estate which is just madness you couldn't make it up

As for the REIN that makes much more sense as some street light don't work and by looking at some other peoples set up which in my opinion is poor then yes REIN makes sense but i doubt very much any of my electrical equipment or mains is to blame but you can never tell despite all electrical equipment in my house being of the very finest quality or was at the time of manufacture

As for tracking it down that's best left to a REIN engineer and not for me as i don't have the right equipment

I have asked technical support to make sure that Richard tang be informed so he can make direct contact with his equivalent at BT and open reach so as to get to the bottom of this long running saga

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Sat 17-Mar-12 16:40:15)

I have just rechecked all of the mains and turned everything off in the house and unplugged everything just leaving the router powered only all lighting has been turned off at the mains and the problem still remains as i expected

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Sat 17-Mar-12 17:43:28)

As for finding it yourself an AM radio tuned to around 600Khz is a good tool.

Faulty street lights, as in flickering badly could easily cause lots of problems, and if the radio suggests they are the source, then the council need to be contacted, and point out that they are causing interference.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

As for finding it yourself an AM radio tuned to around 600Khz is a good tool.

Faulty street lights, as in flickering badly could easily cause lots of problems, and if the radio suggests they are the source, then the council need to be contacted, and point out that they are causing interference.

Thanks Mr saffron
Some of the street lights are not working and have never worked their are none that flicker however so we can rule that out. As for the radio i will give that a try and go around the estate in the car and report back

Well their is some noise in and around my property and extending to a area of around 100 square meters
As to anything specific i cant say as i cant get access to the 10 houses only 5 of them
The street lights are working in this area of which their are 3 the odd thing is thou is that the noise starts at one of the lights but disappears on leaving the 3rd light which doesn't make sense to me I'm afraid but that is at least something for BT to look at
Don't forget our problem is still here when the lights are off but will try again tomorrow during the day time to see if the pattern and placement of noise differs in anyway

It may help you you can picture the route the cables take onto the estate, where I live its pretty easy to suss out how the cables run from the exchange down the main roads and the PCP's are at the end of the estates. You can follow the line of the BT manholes downthe roads

For the lines from the exchange to the PCP you typically see tripple man hole covers and then around your local estate there may be single man hole covers where the cables run from the PCP to your telegraph poles.

Ive notice near me there are three electricty sub stations. Two are fiarly quiet when checking for REIN but then one buzzes like crazy.

In reply to a post by Ripley:

It may help you you can picture the route the cables take onto the estate, where I live its pretty easy to suss out how the cables run from the exchange down the main roads and the PCP's are at the end of the estates. You can follow the line of the BT manholes downthe roads

For the lines from the exchange to the PCP you typically see triple man hole covers and then around your local estate there may be single man hole covers where the cables run from the PCP to your telegraph poles.

Ive notice near me there are three electricty sub stations. Two are fiarly quiet when checking for REIN but then one buzzes like crazy.

Thanks ripley for your suggestions
I think at this time zen will just concentrate on my fault only with BT and if and when we can get that fixed i will then be able to go around the estate and apply the same fixes to all of those affected

The BT engineers are on the estate virtually every week and have been for four years so i would think we are just looking for one fault only either internally where the wiring is at fault or externally

Knowing the builder of the estate as i do my bet it will be within the houses as when people moved in none of the phone sockets worked and with a phone extension in each room and 2 in the lounge that means quite a few phone sockets in the house and it just could be that those affected including myself called out a private xBT engineer who maybe has rewired the house in the wrong way despite the fact all of the sockets are working correctly using a phone

In the four years i have lived here i have only had 6 weeks of a continuous 5mb service so the sockets have performed correctly and for the remaining time intermittently 0/3mb which has been the overall standard on the estate of 200 properties of 2/3/4/5 bedrooms in a well spaced out environment in a rural setting with myself only ever getting 5mb

My logic is if it can perform and has performed correctly albeit for a short 6 week period the house at that point in time has been wired correctly and with nothing being changed or disturb over the four year period why all of a sudden it would spring to life for 6 weeks and then fail again that makes no sense in electronics

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Sun 18-Mar-12 15:32:46)

Having called zen today the fault manager has asked me to just use the test socket only for 24 hours to see how that goes as he feels sure with a vast amount of experience that to be the cause of the problem IE the other wiring on the phones side of things in other words the master socket is perfect and just by plugging in my router into the master socket all will be well

This had been tried so many times over the past 4 years and has made no difference whatsoever but to please him i have done so and like so many times before all starts off well only to fall flat again a few hours later with the same old intermittent fault

I'm not sure Zen are grasping the fact that this is an estate fault and not just me

How the hell am i going to get this message across to them god only knows as it would seam that a verbal phone call isn't going to work

Yes the zen staff are wonderful the very best of that i have no doubt truly great but as for giving a customer some service at a level that works for £35 per month it would now appear that most of the staff i speak with are left wonting and not so clever after all

The only staff with some fight in them of which there are just 3 the rest cant bring anything extra to the table which is a shame

Of course the real trouble is BT in the failing to get to grips with the problem and if your not going to find the fault in the 4 years then you aren't going to find it all as the staff doing the work aren't really up to the mark

Maybe we will never find it and yes i am still very keen but it would seam i am the only one left who is ?


It's just a pity i dont live at number 10 downing street because if i did I'd have Richard tang on my doorstep just to make sure all was well ?

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Sun 18-Mar-12 21:01:03)

Surely with the cost of Zen, they should be able to sort it out? I thought that's what you were paying for.

To get it sorted, you could migrate to AAISP, who guarantee they can sort out the problems.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Surely with the cost of Zen, they should be able to sort it out? I thought that's what you were paying for.

To get it sorted, you could migrate to AAISP, who guarantee they can sort out the problems.

Yes that could well be the route to go down at some point if Richard tang or the technical team cant get their act together


The BT engineers on the site have always had a different story to tell their boss should tell them to stick to the same story or better still find the noise and fix the fault

To keep blaming me with the master socket and to keep reminding me of the BT rules regarding the master socket is madness what would happen if i didn't speak English then what ?

Once fibre is established for all in around 5 years time their will be no need for zen i feel as their business model will not be of much use to anyone as fibre may turn out to be reliable and hence kill off the zen claim to fame for providing a first class service which may not even be needed and being that much more expensive and with much regret will be their downfall which will be completely out of their control

having to rely on BT may well be over time the downfall of most isp's and that's guaranteed

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Sun 18-Mar-12 23:07:07)

Morning,

Can you PM the fault ref please. I was in over the weekend and I would like to know who was not able to see nor understand the issue and whether or not the have made any more progress. I am sure Phil Long knows about the issue, however I would like the oportunity to help if I can.

Kindest Regards,

In reply to a post by Azzaka:

Morning,

Can you PM the fault ref please. I was in over the weekend and I would like to know who was not able to see nor understand the issue and whether or not the have made any more progress. I am sure Phil Long knows about the issue, however I would like the opportunity to help if I can.

Kindest Regards,

Hi Leo
Thank you pm sent
There is a REIN issue that i have discovered in a neighbours property with his sat /receiver equipment which he uses for EU TV only as it is a EU receiver made in the EU
He does not know how to implement a fix and neither do i as the equipment is new to me


when the unit is on the noise is bad on the MW 600 frequency and when he turns it off the frequency goes quite

As for how he can get that fixed i don't know. I believe that this type of situation on our estate to probably be common as the quietness in some areas of the estate are very quite indeed with all residents reporting normal broadband

In the areas with small amounts of noise then this could well be a sky box or something similar and a little education here for the resident might help

Having said that and am sure your well aware in that some people don't wish to learn and therefore things that go on in an environment are not as they should be so yes our estate could do much better as far as broadband is concerned

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Mon 19-Mar-12 18:45:41)

Nick

I've skimmed over the thread. If the issue is as serious and as widespread as you indicate, then I suggest that its time to involve OFCOM.

Not with a complaint regarding Zen or BT, but with an estate-wide REIN issue which possibly involves equipment that does not conform to EU regulations, and potentially poor electrical installation by the original site developer and their sub-contracted 3rd party electrical suppliers (is, those who installed the building supplies and possibly the streetlights). The developer's name doesn't start with 'M' does it?

It is OFCOMs responsibility to investigate these issues, especially if there is interference in the radio spectrum. But equallly, they are responsible for ensuring that equipment such as Sky, BT Vision, powerline sockets, etc, all comply with the varios EU and ITT regulations.

They will send engineers out to investigate - and they are very very thorough!

'luck.

Hi Nick,

I don't suppose you are in the Orchard estate by any chance? I've been looking into FTTC as well but BT website checker is unable to provide a reason why it isn't available.
Some work has been done a green cabinet just down the road (junction to Ifield Av/Rushetts Road) but I may have got it totally wrong in thinking it's a fibre cab?

Dan

In reply to a post by alewis:

Nick

I've skimmed over the thread. If the issue is as serious and as widespread as you indicate, then I suggest that its time to involve OFCOM.

Not with a complaint regarding Zen or BT, but with an estate-wide REIN issue which possibly involves equipment that does not conform to EU regulations, and potentially poor electrical installation by the original site developer and their sub-contracted 3rd party electrical suppliers (is, those who installed the building supplies and possibly the streetlights). The developer's name doesn't start with 'M' does it?

It is OFCOMs responsibility to investigate these issues, especially if there is interference in the radio spectrum. But equallly, they are responsible for ensuring that equipment such as Sky, BT Vision, powerline sockets, etc, all comply with the varios EU and ITT regulations.

They will send engineers out to investigate - and they are very very thorough!

'luck.

Thanks
I have found that a nearby neighbour has had a faulty DC adaptor and that has helped and at our next meeting of the estate will highlight that these ongoing problems are probably down to the residents complete lack of knowledge in how electrical equipment should be used in the home and to take care and if in doubt to see me for further advice

I will be speaking to OFCOM to highlight my concerns so as to stop this from happening in the future

It's early days to say that my problem is fixed but it could well be a step in the right direction

Edited by NICK_ADSL_UK (Tue 20-Mar-12 22:52:47)

In reply to a post by dan1884:

Hi Nick,

I don't suppose you are in the Orchard estate by any chance? I've been looking into FTTC as well but BT website checker is unable to provide a reason why it isn't available.
Some work has been done a green cabinet just down the road (junction to Ifield Av/Rushetts Road) but I may have got it totally wrong in thinking it's a fibre cab?

Dan

Hi Dan
I am not sure about that cabinet and will take a closer look next time I'm out
As for our estate and further just up the road bonnets lane which leads down to the runway at Gatwick we are due our cabinet in December according to this map

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapi...

Hi Leo
I've been down with a port issue the past couple of days and having spoken to the boss of BT broadband services Tony and yes he was shocked to hear from me as he doesn't take calls from the public everything is ok for now with a speed of 6mb the highest i have ever had

The rest of the 200 house estate only gets around 2 /3 mb thou if their lucky and i still feel that further investigations should be carried out and our fibre installations brought forward and that is what i have asked Tony to look into and trust he will do so as i don't wont to keep calling him up or waking him up

Well it's been down again during the night and am just waiting to hear back from Zen as to the cause. Speed wise i am up a little so it could be worse and am thankful at this time for small mercies

In reply to a post by NICK_ADSL_UK:

Well it's been down again during the night and am just waiting to hear back from Zen as to the cause. Speed wise i am up a little so it could be worse and am thankful at this time for small mercies

It's been a port issue again despite one lift and shift and it's been down again for a short time this afternoon

95% of this thread is you talking to yourself

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

95% of this thread is you talking to yourself

Maybe but their are lessons here to be learned we don't all have your skills as if we did we would all be in full time work in which were not

Just a small update and that zen have said the line SNR margin is 3db and am now syncing at 7.5 MBPS download which is now over 4Mbps faster then anyone else on this estate so well done to zen i hold my hat off to you and lets just hope it stays this way

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

95% of this thread is you talking to yourself

Yes, and with a TWELVE LINE signature (including blank lines) each time!

You'd think that someone would have commented on this before...

I knew there was a reason I keep the display of signatures turned off.

Paul