Fibre migration - mixed messages!

I had read that there was some trouble in getting orders through for customers on LLU with another provider who want to move to Plusnet. I phoned yesterday to get some first hand information, explained my existing services and was told that although the order might initially get rejected, it could then be picked up by provisioning and manually progressed, there would definitely be no problem to prevent a successful migration.

I went ahead and placed order for Fibre Unlimited + Phone and phoned to check as it was stuck on 'checking details'. Today I get told the order won't go through and there is no fix and no timescale - I simply can't become a Plusnet customer. I was invited to leave the order pending and check back every week. Was told the 'suppliers' are aware of the issue and I'm not the only one.

This differs from the previous information and I was wondering if someone could chip in on this with what the correct information is and if indeed I can't get service from Plusnet as I was hoping.

flagged up to staff

go exact same problem as you, but it has taken me 3 weeks to get the answer you got in one day!

see message from a PlusNet Advisor :

Hi there,

Unfortunately this is a major problem with our suppliers that's affecting all ISPs. Basically the ordering system doesn't work as far as migrating existing fibre services from MPF providers like sky goes, and the actual code needs to be rewritten.

Our suppliers do have this in hand though we're not sure when the fix will be rolled and applied. At present though while it's ongoing there's only two ways round it, neither of which are ideal.

1) Cancel the existing service and then have us place an order for a new fibre install
2) Get a new line installed with fibre

Really sorry about that, we are chasing the problem (as are other ISPs) but at present that's where we are.

Hope that explains, though I understand it's not a good message.

Regards,


still trying to get a resolution !

In reply to a post by vf12vf:

still trying to get a resolution !

From my limited understanding of the situation (I've not had much involvement), I'd imagine one of these is going to offer the quickest resolution:

1) Cancel the existing service and then have us place an order for a new fibre install
2) Get a new line installed with fibre

Rgds,

In reply to a post by bpullen:

In reply to a post by vf12vf:

still trying to get a resolution !

From my limited understanding of the situation (I've not had much involvement), I'd imagine one of these is going to offer the quickest resolution:

1) Cancel the existing service and then have us place an order for a new fibre install
2) Get a new line installed with fibre

Rgds,

yes, but to get a new line installed will cost what?

is PlusNet going to waive the fee for this.....I am waiting for an answer on this matter but support is slow in answering...will try to speak to a real person tomorrow if I can get through on the phone.

I cant cancel the line as I have an office at home and need broadband / internet for work commitments.

I would be happy to have a new line if this would effectively 'sever' the service I have with Sky and end up with Plusnet service and a new telephone number. I'm assuming this is a new line order and not a physical new telephone line?

Would this involve extra cost and can it be done without much downtime?

Hi there,

I'm afraid we wouldn't be able to waive the fee for a new line install. The issue is with our suppliers' systems and is no fault of ours, and in addition there's an alternative mentioned above that would enable you to get the fibre service without having to pay for a new line.

Hi,

Yes it would be having a second physical line installed in addition to the one you have sky on currently, and it would cost £49.99 - however it would enable you to leave the sky service active until the fibre order completes, meaning there'd be no downtime.

Thanks for the swift reply. If I downgraded from Sky Fibre to Sky ADSL could I then have a successful migration without interruption to services?

I was a Plusnet customer about 8 years ago for ADSL and it's refreshing to see that the attention customers get on these forums is still great, as it was then.

Yes, that should work - I believe the issue is only with migrating fibre, so ADSL should be alright.

Scuppered! Sky re-contract for 12 months when downgrading. Will leave order pending and hope for a fix soon

I have been on the phone for hours and still no solution, Sky says they are not holding the line, Plusnets system says they are!

Cant cancel with sky completely as I will lose my number..same with new line install!


really stuck now

Hi,

I am thinking of moving from Virgin Cable service to Plusnet FTTC. Would I have same issue if I want to keep my number?

TD

Totally different
Virgin cable is not via a phone line so you would need to get one unless your phone isn't via Virgin cable

Sorry to hijack to thread a little, but is this situation the same for BT infinity customers wanting to change over to Plusnet Fibre?

I understand they are two completely different things. However I moved from BT to Virgin Cable 15 months ago and ported my landline number. I now want to move back to a normal phone with FTTC via Plusnet and am wondering if it is complicated to port my number back (I know it is possible under normal scenario).

Thanks,

That is entirely up to Virgin and they can be difficult

Yes I heard that. But my scenario doesn't fall into the category this thread is about which is Fibre migration from another LLU provider as I don't believe Virgin Cable connections fall into that category do they?

But your original question was about keeping your same phone number

Based on past experience with this sort of issue - BT rewriting code in ordering system - would anyone hazard a guess about whether the timescale for a fix might be in the range of weeks or months?

Did a bit of Googling and found a BTO document "Improvements to FTTC
double migration scenarios" which details exactly how to migrate an existing MPF+FFTC customer to new MPF+FTTC provider:

1. MPF (CP1) + FTTC (CP1) migrates to MPF (CP2) + FTTC (CP2)
a) CP2 places a FTTC SIM Provide order
b) CP2 places a MPF SIM Provide migration order as the gaining CP
c) The MPF order triggers a MPF managed cease to CP1 and an FTTC managed cease to CP1

Ensure that you place the FTTC order first and process the FTTC order as a provide rather than a migration in order to trigger the managed FTTC cease activity.

Taken from document here:
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/produc...

Is this the order of procedures which is currently broken and results in order rejection for Plusnet? If not, perhaps this route could be followed?

not sure what all that means...but hoping that it means I can get out of Sky and move to PlusNet..

if this is the case, is it worth sending this to the PlusNet advisor trying to deal with my issue?

Pretty much, yes. Basically we can either place a simultaneous order or we can transfer the phone line first (we can't place a broadband order on a line we don't own, hence why we can't migrate the broadband first).

It's the phone order that fails though - basically the ordering system registers the broadband already on the line as an incompatible product, and then rejects the phone transfer order. That's why it either requires a new line or the existing broadband to be cancelled.

Just to be sure of what you are saying - for my scenario are the provisioning team definitely placing a FTTC SIM PROVIDE (not migration) order first, and then placing a MPF SIM MIGRATE order afterwards. It seems to be very specific that if they are processed in the wrong order they do not get matched up by the BTO systems and will reject the phone order with the error you mention.

In reply to a post by lgb2000:

... which details exactly how to migrate an existing MPF+FFTC customer to new MPF+FTTC provider:

1. MPF (CP1) + FTTC (CP1) migrates to MPF (CP2) + FTTC (CP2)
a) CP2 places a FTTC SIM Provide order
b) CP2 places a MPF SIM Provide migration order as the gaining CP
c) The MPF order triggers a MPF managed cease to CP1 and an FTTC managed cease to CP1

Is this the order of procedures which is currently broken and results in order rejection for Plusnet? If not, perhaps this route could be followed?

Plusnet is not MPF. It is SMPF plus optional WLR, but the line has to be on WLR with someone. (Even Sky can[/do] move it from MPF to WLR if you migrate the broadband away. I don't know if they still do, but I think so).

Then I guess this scenario applies:

3. MPF (CP1) + FTTC (CP1) migrates to WLR3 (CP2) + FTTC (CP3)
a) CP2/3 places an FTTC SIM Provide order
b) CP2 places a WLR3 SIM Provide migration order as the gaining CP
c) The WLR3 order triggers an MPF managed cease to CP1 and an FTTC managed cease to CP1

Plusnet seem to be placing a simultaneous order and the phone order then rejects, however this seems to be at odds with the Openreach method above.

That's better .

It's the SIM Provide I think is the issue. I'm not sure they are up to speed on that, or even if it is built into their ordering system or not, even for ADSLx. I fear not.

What I've been able to deduce is that Plusnet only seem to use the simultaneous provide when the telephone is with a third party. If Plusnet are also providing the phone they seem incapable of setting up a simultaneous provide.

So for someone moving from Sky or O2 the best route may be order a move of the telephone to BT Retail or the Post Office and get a simultaneous provide code. Then order the broadband from Plusnet using the Sim provide code. Finally when that's all up and running move the phone from BT to Plusnet. Unfortunately although that should minimise down time it's far from being the cheapest option.

In reply to a post by jelv:

order a move of the telephone to BT Retail or the Post Office


Finally when that's all up and running move the phone from BT to Plusnet

Wouldn't the intermediate provision (i.e. to BT) involve a minimum Contract Provision?

In reply to a post by johnjburness:

Wouldn't the intermediate provision (i.e. to BT) involve a minimum Contract Provision?

Yes it would. This method would require staying with BT for 12 months or paying a hefty termination fee.

Doesn't that mean you could just cease the ADSL/FIbre service with Sky on the line and leave it with just the telephone service. Then migrate the phone service, then order fibre again?

I am perhaps guilty of a huge understatement:

In reply to a post by jelv:

Unfortunately although that should minimise down time it's far from being the cheapest option.

but I did realise there would be a large financial penalty!

My personal preference would be to cancel Sky Fibre then sign up to PlusNet Fibre & Phone in order to take advantage of the half price deals (which is hypothetical since I'm on ADSL).

think I might just go for that now, so fed up with waiting.
I can leave sky penalty free so will ask PlusNet for a new service and will just have to lose my existing number..its the only way out of Sky!

You shouldn't have to lose your number if you cancel the broadband and migrate the landline.

Thinking of this option too, as this seems to have been going on since December!

I wonder how long it would take for the Openreach systems to register the removal of the Sky FTTC so that PN could process the order?

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

You shouldn't have to lose your number if you cancel the broadband and migrate the landline.

would this mean I would be without broadband for a while, or could it be changed over on the same day without any interruption of service?

In reply to a post by vf12vf:

would this mean I would be without broadband for a while, or could it be changed over on the same day without any interruption of service?

It would mean a period without broadband, so you'd need to get a mobile dongle or something.

I spoke to Plusnet sales team yesterday as im currently with sky with fibre and looking to migrate. Initially the sales person was unaware of any problems with migrating from sky but liaised with the technical team.

There is currently no way of migrating from sky to Plusnet or any other isp. There is also no ETA on when this is going to be fixed. The blame was pointed directly at Sky for not releasing lines etc..

Guess im stuck with sky as paying £50 for a new line defeats the point of moving to save money! Also cant cancel sky and then move as the missus would go mental with no internet for a few weeks.

Who would have thought it was 2013 and migration issues are still present. Reminds me of the early LLU Adsl days...

Ah damn that is pretty silly hopefully Ofcom can make the migration of fibre a little bit more easier in the near future.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It's the SIM Provide I think is the issue. I'm not sure they are up to speed on that, or even if it is built into their ordering system or not, even for ADSLx. I fear not.

*WHOSE* ordering system ?

At present Openreach has a discount deal (running January until end June 2013) specifically for simultaneous provide (but including a new phone line) so presumably they can do a simultaneous provide

I don't know if it would work, but XL Telecom (business sector) can offer a line for a time without any minimum term. Told me they could offer it for 2 days if someone only wanted it that long.

However, it may complicate matters as they presumably only deal with 'business' lines (but 12 quid or whatever +VAT is probably a lot less than breaking a year long contract with any telco in the residential market).

In reply to a post by mabibby:

Doesn't that mean you could just cease the ADSL/FIbre service with Sky on the line and leave it with just the telephone service. Then migrate the phone service, then order fibre again?

One assumes Sky could but seems like they won't - perhaps they know that by not doing so, it messes up a migration!

In reply to a post by Manook:

Guess im stuck with sky as paying £50 for a new line defeats the point of moving to save money! Also cant cancel sky and then move as the missus would go mental with no internet for a few weeks.

I think BT manage SIM provides on Infinity from Sky MPF (full LLU).

Pay for fibre and end up with adsl 10mb

I would never recommend this company to anyone not even my worst enemy, I was with talktalk and was getting a steady 66mb on their fibre network, I decided to move providers to get a better deal so I signed up to Plusnet, I was told by talktalk that they would leave my service active till my new provider taken over my line. I was phoned after I signed up saying that they had trouble taken over my line as I couldn�t get fibre I explained that I was already on fibre with talktalk and was getting 66mb I was told that I needed a new telephone line installing in order to correct the problem I asked when the service went over to plusnet would I still receive the internet yes they said, on the day the openreach installed my line he told me that he had to disconnect my fibre and that another appointment would be made for my fibre, what I had been told by plusnet was a lie in order for me to sign up, they started charge me for telephone calls when I had signed up to anytime calls I then noticed they where charging me for service I hadn�t signed up to, on the day my fibre was to be installed they capped my line to 10mb I have been paying for super fast fibre as they call it at £20 a month on a 18 month contract and all I have been getting is adsl speed I have spent endless hours on the phone complaining I told them I wanted out of their contract and reimbursed the years line rental I paid up front they said they would let me out of the contract if I paid them the remainder of my contract and I would loss the ten months line rental I had remaining, I have now taken my complaint to their ombudsman and are now waiting on them to make a decision, trust me I wished I had paid more to stay with my previous provider Plusnet is the worst provider I have ever been with and I have been with them all. AVOID PLUSNET

In my case and many others, the majority of Plusnet Cock-ups seem to be at service changeover, things can then be a bit of a nightmare as their info pages still seem to be out of date or just plain wrong, which makes it near impossible to get sense from their customer service, as the incorect info is all they have to guide them much of the time. The PN staff on here try to be very helpful, but they struggle with the PN system and very often their reply contains "That should", "I believe" or "I have not dealt much with that".

Edited by professor973 (Sun 07-Apr-13 10:59:01)

As we are both in the same boat at the moment I wondered whether you decided to get a new landline/number or remove current fibre service, then migrate or perhaps nothing?

Once I've sourced a suitable mobile dongle I am going to remove the Sky Fibre broadband service. I am told by PN that it will take 24 hours for the Openreach systems to show the service tags are removed and then a simultaneous provide order will take 10-12 days so I'd be looking at around 2 weeks without internet, but no loss of phone line or number. Not ideal, but seems to be the best way out of it!

Just an update for anyone following this saga. I phoned Sky to cancel my Fibre broadband service so that I could progress with my PN migration, albeit with 2 weeks without internet, a reasonable trade-off for the higher speeds and lower prices.

Turns out Sky cannot remove the Fibre product without also cancelling the phone line, which is not what I was told when I added it! The adviser also seemed surprised by this. I negotiated with them to allow me to downgrade to ADSL (normally 12 month re-contract) and then allow me immediate migration to PN without early termination charges, as I was mis-sold the Fibre product and was clearly told I could remove it after 12 months if I wished.

Upshot is I should be able to migrate all services to PN seamlessly once the ADSL downgrade has happened. A favorable outcome in the end but a tedious voyage of discovery of the difficulties involved with changing phone + broadband. A shame that it's not as easy as it makes out on the website! "Sit back, relax and leave it to us"....

In reply to a post by lgb2000:

I negotiated with them to allow me to downgrade to ADSL (normally 12 month re-contract) and then allow me immediate migration to PN without early termination charges, as I was mis-sold the Fibre product and was clearly told I could remove it after 12 months if I wished.

Do you have that in writing?

In reply to a post by lgb2000:

Turns out Sky cannot remove the Fibre product without also cancelling the phone line, which is not what I was told when I added it!

Found it:

In reference to www.sky.com/shop/terms-conditions/broadband/:

If after we move you to our Sky Network, you decide to cancel or switch your Sky Broadband service to another provider, your Sky Talk services will automatically be cancelled at the same time.

Makes things a whole lot more awkward. Hopefully the providers can pull their fingers out and rectify the fibre MPF -> BTw migration process.

I just bit the bullet and cancelled my line with Sky. I went over to Plusnet, who did the whole install free of charge (due to the migration issues), new line, BTOR box etc.
I have Sky and Plusnet running together at the moment until the 11th Apr when my line with Sky is finally ceased (so no loss of service). Nice of Sky to let me go free of charge, 4mths into contract, due to the well known issues with them.
Changing phone number was not a problem for us, as we never really used it anyway.

When I signed up to Sky Fibre, it was a new product not yet detailed on their website as I was part of an advance group who registered their interest in the product - hence no terms/conditions were available and at the time all info about terminating/downgrading was given over phone. My ADSL downgrade order has been actioned and I have the name and agent ID of the staffer who was adamant he would call back and remove the early termination charges, so fingers crossed.

I'm not sure that clause has been changed since fibre launched, as "Sky Broadband" can apply to ADSL as well as VDSL. So equally someone with ADSL can't cancel their service and keep the landline.

That is true, however once I have the ADSL back on the line, I can just let PN know and they can then do a simultaneous order and migrate my services away from Sky.

I get the feeling that Plusnet are getting an awful lot of recent custom, because of Sky.
I hope they can hand the influx of digital refugees.

Just to report back that a few weeks on I have a result

Downgraded from Sky FTTC to Sky ADSL which took 10 days to action. Phoned Plusnet within 10 minutes of downgrade happening and they pushed through the simultaneous order for phone + FTTC which this time was accepted, seems the line tags updated near instantly. 14 days later here I am on Plusnet Unlimited Fibre without any internet downtime and very happy with my speeds. Much praise for Plusnet customer service and responsiveness along the way.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2683770321.png

Well planned (by you) .

lgb2000 - im in two minds between Sky and Plusnet,

Can you tell me what you thought about Sky's Fibre? or was this solely a cost saving move.

If you are "in two minds" then do you really want to go down the route of MPF and end up in the same mess as the OP?

Sorry not that tech savvy - what is the MPF route?

I'm currently on O2 and was considering Sky Fibre Pro or Plusnet Unlimited Fibre ( while keeping my existing line with BT)

MPF (Metallic Path Facility) = Full LLU where both BB & phone line are provided by ISP. Like Sky & TT. Often causes problems, delays & downtime when you want to migrate away from the Full LLU ISP.

As opposed to SMPF (Shared MPF) = Partial LLU where BB is provided by ISP but phone is still by BTw. Like PN. Migrations are covered by the MAC process.

Note: "Provided" is not the same as "Billed".

Thanks XRaySpeX, I will be sticking to SMPF (current setup)

Is it possible to move from Sky fibre to Plusnet fibre yet, without first downgrading to ADSL?

If so, do Plusnet just send the router out as I already have the fibre modem from my Sky installation.

Hi there,

Yes, that process has now been fixed we're glad to say. I believe you're right about the engineer visit and modem not being required as you've already had both.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. I've about 1 month to run on my contract with Sky. Will your 9 months at £12.99 offer still be available then?

It's running until 12th November I believe, so yes you should have plenty of time

Thanks Matthew