I can finally get FTTP/FTTC, question?

so BT been doing some works lately and now page says I can order FTTP.. 300mbs! My max is ADSL 5mb.. I cant wait to order

BT 300mb FTTP is 60 a month, do you think its worth ringing BT tomorrow and calling their bluff and saying I want to cancel bt landline and BT sport, and hope they give me a good package deal? anyone tried that?

If you are on ADSL now, then the best deal will be the pricing shown for the FTTP options, i.e. there is no under cutting that, only at contract renewal when prices revert to standard pricing can negotiation kick in.

You say FTTP/FTTC in the subject, are you certain that you are not confusing FTTP on Demand with native FTTP and its actually VDSL2 that you can get

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you are on ADSL now, then the best deal will be the pricing shown for the FTTP options, i.e. there is no under cutting that, only at contract renewal when prices revert to standard pricing can negotiation kick in.

You say FTTP/FTTC in the subject, are you certain that you are not confusing FTTP on Demand with native FTTP and its actually VDSL2 that you can get

How do I check that? Openreach was digging up my road 2 months ago, theyve been littered around area for months. I checked fttc checker on openreach today and it says I can get " superfast fibre to premises " I put my postcode in BT checker and it says I can get the 300mb option

I dont have current broadband with BT, I have ti with sky. I do have lind line and BT sport with BT, and tempted to say to them I want to cancel and hope they give me a good deal on moving broadband over in attempt for me to stay

All depends on what BT checker you mean, some have no scope for confusion and others do, what URL was the checker you used

BT knows it is pretty much the only big ISP that sells the FTTP product, so your choice is less about price and more about do you want to stay with ADSL or go with FTTP

If cost is a key concern then just order the BT Infinity 1 Unlimited service at a time when the Reward Card values are high, i.e. £125 or £150

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

All depends on what BT checker you mean, some have no scope for confusion and others do, what URL was the checker you used

BT knows it is pretty much the only big ISP that sells the FTTP product, so your choice is less about price and more about do you want to stay with ADSL or go with FTTP

If cost is a key concern then just order the BT Infinity 1 Unlimited service at a time when the Reward Card values are high, i.e. £125 or £150

https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-br...

This is the checker I used, is this right?

this one https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s...

shows..

WBC FTTP Upto 330 Upto 30 -- Available 1 Stage

it also says

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:- Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG partial Direct In Ground

Edited by deleted (Wed 10-Jan-18 23:23:29)

Okay its native GEA-FTTP so you have the up to 38, 52, 76, 200 and 300 Mbps product options

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/bt/packages/unli...

Infinity 1 up to 52 Mbps £29.99 per month and that includes the line rental, so depending on what you are paying Sky the total might be less already

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Okay its native GEA-FTTP so you have the up to 38, 52, 76, 200 and 300 Mbps product options

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/bt/packages/unli...

Infinity 1 up to 52 Mbps £29.99 per month and that includes the line rental, so depending on what you are paying Sky the total might be less already

I've been used to 5mb/s a sec since 2004, so I will definitely be going for the 300mb product, definitely want to make most of it I deserve it

so 60 a month with a 125 reward card, including line rental.. so really only 45 a month, not bad I suppose

btw, whats the usual install time?

Edited by deleted (Wed 10-Jan-18 23:35:33)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you are on ADSL now, then the best deal will be the pricing shown for the FTTP options, i.e. there is no under cutting that, only at contract renewal when prices revert to standard pricing can negotiation kick in.

That's what we did and we got a very very good deal.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You say FTTP/FTTC in the subject, are you certain that you are not confusing FTTP on Demand with native FTTP and its actually VDSL2 that you can get

Well that price of £60 pm was what ours went to without line rental when we was out of contract.
So that sounds like FTTP to me, but I have been wrong in the past.

Paul

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

I've been used to 5mb/s a sec since 2004, so I will definitely be going for the 300mb product, definitely want to make most of it I deserve it

Yeah, we were stuck with an average of 3.2Mbits ranging from 1Mbit to 5.5Mbit.
Well if money isn't an issue Infinity 4 (300Mbits) is best for the buck per Mbit.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

so 60 a month with a 125 reward card, including line rental.. so really only 45 a month, not bad I suppose

Thats not bad.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

btw, whats the usual install time?

Well once we finally got all our issues resolved which I won't get into, ours was done in 2 stages over 2 to 3 days, but the Chairman's Office and the CEO of BT was involved, but with a 2 stage install there is normally around a week between the external and internal work.

Not really sure about a 1 stage install.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Well once we finally got all our issues resolved which I won't get into, ours was done in 2 stages over 2 to 3 days, but the Chairman's Office and the CEO of BT was involved, but with a 2 stage install there is normally around a week between the external and internal work.

Not really sure about a 1 stage install.

Paul

did they have to dig up around your house?

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Well once we finally got all our issues resolved which I won't get into, ours was done in 2 stages over 2 to 3 days, but the Chairman's Office and the CEO of BT was involved, but with a 2 stage install there is normally around a week between the external and internal work.

Not really sure about a 1 stage install.

Paul

did they have to dig up around your house?

Nope, all fibres from DP goes up phone pole to the Manifold and then hangs to the CSP on the wall of my house.

I am just guessing here but if yours requires digging then planning permission may / will be requested and have to be approved which "can" take a while to be processed and then the work gets a scheduled date and once completed engineers "should" then be allocated / booked.

Paul

so I rang BT and said I'm moving to zen do I need a pac code? ( I'm not stupid, but it was a way for me to ring them, or else I wouldnt need to do anything )

they said " no, why are you leaving"

I said because cerebus is offering 300mb/s cheaper, so they gave me 300mb infinity 300 for 48 a month including line rental, and dropped my bt sport price from 25 a month to 5 a month, so quids in

technical question, if I want to connect the BT hub to a computer upstairs via ethernet, will any ethernet cable do or do I need a special one for these speeds?

Assuming this is just internal cabling then a standard ethernet cable, at least cat5e. Will you need to put it through walls? If so you can do smaller holes by buying a reel of cable and then terminating yourself (easiest way being to terminate with a wall socket each end that way you don't need specialist crimping tools).

In reply to a post by ian72:

Assuming this is just internal cabling then a standard ethernet cable, at least cat5e. Will you need to put it through walls? If so you can do smaller holes by buying a reel of cable and then terminating yourself (easiest way being to terminate with a wall socket each end that way you don't need specialist crimping tools).

there are already holes where my phone line cable goes from phone hub downstairs to my PC, I just wanted to know if I needed a special rated ethernet cable

As you are going for an FTTP service then I would go for CAT6, as this way you would be covered when FTTP get's faster speeds.

Cat5e will very happily do gigabit - I'm guessing that will keep most people going for quite a while. Cat5e is the minimum - cat6 might possibly be worth it.

I assume the holes are fairly large? It needs a reasonable diameter hole to fit the plug of an ethernet cable through - if they are large then fine but worth being sure.

In theory Cat5e can do gigabit speeds, but in practice it just falls short. Which is why when I install networks for people who have FTTP I always put in at least CAT6, that way they can have such things as NAS devices running at full speed without fear of loosing any speed and it also future proofs them up to 10 gigabit internet speeds.

Edited by robertcrowther (Thu 11-Jan-18 12:10:32)

In reply to a post by ian72:

I assume the holes are fairly large? It needs a reasonable diameter hole to fit the plug of an ethernet cable through - if they are large then fine but worth being sure.

generally you don't use patch cables, therefore you either use keystones or just a punchdown faceplate. So the holes don't need to be so big.

In reply to a post by ian72:

I assume the holes are fairly large? It needs a reasonable diameter hole to fit the plug of an ethernet cable through - if they are large then fine but worth being sure.

yeah they are decently sized, I have ethernet cables to test but I would need a long one. First engineer visit is on 22nd, then in house work on 31. Be interested to see what they say about the outside part first

one last question

I'm currently on SKY ADSL, my contract with them ends in march, I will pay up last remaining 2 months

BT said they will contact SKY to take over the line, I presume that won't be an issue? I don't want to ring sky and cancel and have no internet for 2 weeks

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

generally you don't use patch cables, therefore you either use keystones or just a punchdown faceplate. So the holes don't need to be so big.

I am well aware of that and why I advised not doing so but also gave advice if the OP still wants to follow that route.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

one last question

I'm currently on SKY ADSL, my contract with them ends in march, I will pay up last remaining 2 months

BT said they will contact SKY to take over the line, I presume that won't be an issue? I don't want to ring sky and cancel and have no internet for 2 weeks

You are in effect migrating your broadband using the current system that replaced the MAC system.

You do not contact Sky at all at this stage. Doing so is what could cause a mess-up.

The system is "Gaining Provider led", in effect controlled completely by the gaining ISP. When you place the order with BT, Sky will be notified and should send you a communication telling you anything you will need to pay to settle your account. They are not allowed to initiate an offers to you to get you to stay, but can respond if you ask for offers. (Which you won't be doing).

See Ofcom GC22 Paragraphs 22.10 - 22.13, and 22.15.

Check your phone line length from the existing PCP DP plus any extra from that PCP to the new FTTC.

That line length is a major factor in what VDSL speed you will get in practice.

Your phone line may be strangely routed.

"My" FTTC is 10 Metres from my front door.

The PCP is about 40 Metres, on a green-field site and this was the show-house.

BUT the actual phone line length is about 350 Metres, confirmed by a BT engineer and myself actually tracing it; plus another 50 Metres linking the FTTC to the PCP, so on the cusp where the VDSL maximum speed starts to drop of sharply.

-------------

Also try to ensure that you are getting maximum performance out of your present ADSL, particularly doing Quiet Line Tests etc.

Easier to sort out before VDSL is installed.

The poster is getting FTTP .

How does Cat5e fall short? Ethernet is either 10Mbps, 100 Mbps or 1000 Mbps connections and no intermediate connection speeds.

If cat5e was not connecting at 1000 Mbps then likely the cable was CCA type, copper coated aluminium which is cheaper and can be problematic on longer runs.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

How does Cat5e fall short? Ethernet is either 10Mbps, 100 Mbps or 1000 Mbps connections and no intermediate connection speeds.

If cat5e was not connecting at 1000 Mbps then likely the cable was CCA type, copper coated aluminium which is cheaper and can be problematic on longer runs.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N8Y8TFI/ref=o...

I ordered that before, I hope it will suffice

I hope you can cancel your order as those cables are a con and are not cat7, they are not even to cat5. You only need to read some of the reviews to see that people have complained about them.

Be very careful when buying cat7. I've had so many of my customers contact me because they baught cheap cables thinking they were cat7 when they weren't

If you do a speed test from lets say a gigabit NAS drive using cat5e quite often the speed is just a little below gigabit speeds. So this does not allow for future speed increases. Bettter to install once than having to replace (more cost effective)

And so it should be since GigE has a throughput limit of 940 Mbps due to overheads in the transport protocols

When using CAT6 cables I get around 113MB/s, but when using CAT5e it drops down to around 102MB/s. This is why I would always recommend CAT6 over CAT5e if someone is having FTTP becuase they are more likely at some point to be using larger media files.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/09/5gbps-ethern...

Seems my cat5e I installed in our house is pretty future proof. Two and half times what I have will be plenty for years to come.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

I hope you can cancel your order as those cables are a con and are not cat7, they are not even to cat5. You only need to read some of the reviews to see that people have complained about them.

Be very careful when buying cat7. I've had so many of my customers contact me because they baught cheap cables thinking they were cat7 when they weren't

Yep, just cancelled it. Who knew buying cables would be tricky

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/09/5gbps-ethern...

Seems my cat5e I installed in our house is pretty future proof. Two and half times what I have will be plenty for years to come.

Shame you didn't read what you posted " 5 Gigabit Ethernet�also allows for up to 5Gbps over Cat 6 cabling."

It means to get that speed you will have to replace your cat5e with at least cat6

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/09/5gbps-ethern...

Seems my cat5e I installed in our house is pretty future proof. Two and half times what I have will be plenty for years to come.

Shame you didn't read what you posted " 5 Gigabit Ethernet�also allows for up to 5Gbps over Cat 6 cabling."

It means to get that speed you will have to replace your cat5e with at least cat6

I have to laugh!

Maybe you should read what RONSKI posted ... then compare it with the beginning of:-

A new Ethernet standard that allows for up to 2.5Gbps over normal Cat 5e cables (the ones you probably have in your house) has been approved by the IEEE. The standard�formally known as IEEE 802.3bz-2016, 2.5G/5GBASE-T, or just 2.5 and 5 Gigabit Ethernet�also allows for up to 5Gbps over Cat 6 cabling.

It seems to fit precisely. He didn't claim the final part of that paragraph, did he!

So an acticle from 2016, what happend then to these speeds? Oh wait, yep that's right reality (it's called cost). Cheaper to get some CAT6 cables, some cheap NICs from a well known auction site for less than 25 pounds and if by magic you have a 10 Gigabit network.

Those that want to hang onto Cat 5e be my guest. I guess it gives me more customers when they finally wake up from their dream. Though I prefer being the good guy and tell people they are making a mistake. I see a lot eveyday that don't.

It's a real shame you didn't read what I wrote

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

Seems my cat5e I installed in our house is pretty future proof. Two and half times what I have will be plenty for years to come.

In reference to arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/09/5gbps-ethernet-standard-details-802...:

A new Ethernet standard that allows for up to 2.5Gbps over normal Cat 5e cables (the ones you probably have in your house)

1Gbps x 2.5 = 2.5Gbps

The reality is that I started fitting cat5e in my house in 2002, if I ever need more than what that can cope with I will replace it, but so far it's served me well for 16 years.

Currently the average household just doesn't need 10Gbps networking, I'd say I'm well above the average household and I certainly don't need it, and even if I did have it my server wouldn't be able to read and write to its discs quick enough to make much use of it. I have a 24 port switch with not many spare ports, so the whole house is well served, so links are not over saturated.

However if I was starting afresh then yes it would make sense, but just to replace my existing network cables because you think it's a mistake to hang on to them is a plain waste of my time.

No offense, but we are talking about what cables to install now it's 2018, not 2002.

I have several servers at home and even my old one from 2012 could cope with it.

Edited by robertcrowther (Fri 12-Jan-18 22:31:46)

No offence taken, I was replying to your reply to Robert which was in response to something I'd posted, so related to what id installed. But yes the main topic had shifted to what to install today, which is why I said if I was starting fresh I would install cat6.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

so 60 a month with a 125 reward card, including line rental.. so really only 45 a month, not bad I suppose

Worth checking the cashback sites too.

When I signed up to BT I got £110 cash back on top of the £150 reward card they were offering at the time.

is FTTP 1:1 or is there some sort of sharing between the neighbourhood?

It says 300mb, but the bt checker says 330, which one is it?

WBC FTTP is a GPON architecture so the resources are shared between properties. It's a bit like a tree with a trunk and branches coming off as the light is split.

The 300mbps advertised speed is due to advertisement regulations.

There is some trials of 1Gbps over GPON

In reply to a post by cymru123:

WBC FTTP is a GPON architecture so the resources are shared between properties. It's a bit like a tree with a trunk and branches coming off as the light is split.

The 300mbps advertised speed is due to advertisement regulations.

There is some trials of 1Gbps over GPON

can't wait for the 1gbps fttp packages

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

is FTTP 1:1 or is there some sort of sharing between the neighbourhood?

It says 300mb, but the bt checker says 330, which one is it?

From your home to the exchange its shared by 32 people (via the Splitter Node) and then you get the sharing when you get onto the network.

And where each fibre going into the Splitter node is 2.5Gbps down and I think 1.2Gbps up, so if all 32 homes on the same split fibre hammers their connection and has the 300Mbps connection it will drop down to 78.125Mbps down, the upload will stay at 30Mbps.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Sat 13-Jan-18 23:02:07)

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

From your home to the exchange its shared by 32 people (via the Splitter Node) and then you get the sharing when you get onto the network.

And where each fibre going into the Splitter node is 2.5Gbps down and I think 1.2Gbps up, so if all 32 homes on the same split fibre hammers their connection and has the 300Mbps connection it will drop down to 78.125Mbps down, the upload will stay at 30Mbps.

Paul

that sounds good, Is there anyway I can blag the engineer to give me more than 300mbps or is it not technically possible?

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

that sounds good, Is there anyway I can blag the engineer to give me more than 300mbps or is it not technically possible?

Nope. The Openreach product BT Consumer will order is 330/30 sync.

Anyway, . I wonder if you've really thought about this? I see:-

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

I've been used to 5mb/s a sec since 2004, so I will definitely be going for the 300mb product, definitely want to make most of it I deserve it

How many people are going to use this FTTP, and at what times of day?

100Mbps is huge, 300Mbps far more than most households could possibly use after they have downloaded three-years-worth of films. If they have space to store them.

Unless you have extraordinarily high requirements, you will not "make the most of it", as you simply won't be able to use anything like all of it .

I accept that if you and your partner and (say) five kids are going to be streaming and gaming 20 hours a day I could be mistaken, but coming from 5Mbps surely it would take a while to develop a complete lifestyle from what you have now to that?



Oh - and!!!

The guaranteed speed at peak times is something under 80Mbps throughput.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

]Nope. The Openreach product BT Consumer will order is 330/30 sync.

Anyway, . I wonder if you've really thought about this? I see:-How many people are going to use this FTTP, and at what times of day?

100Mbps is huge, 300Mbps far more than most households could possibly use after they have downloaded three-years-worth of films. If they have space to store them.

Unless you have extraordinarily high requirements, you will not "make the most of it", as you simply won't be able to use anything like all of it .

I accept that if you and your partner and (say) five kids are going to be streaming and gaming 20 hours a day I could be mistaken, but coming from 5Mbps surely it would take a while to develop a complete lifestyle from what you have now to that?



Oh - and!!!

The guaranteed speed at peak times is something under 80Mbps throughput.

I think I'm the only person on estate with FTTP, I live in a old community really

I have thought about it

PC games to download from stream, are around 40-60GB

Youtube HD 1080/144p, big file sizes

Streaming Sky Go / BT sport for football matches

Downloading films or watching NETFLIX at 4k

I think the real question is, how have I managed with 5meg all this time ?

+1
If it was just me here I might of gone with Infinity 2 or maybe Infinity 3.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

+1
If it was just me here I might of gone with Infinity 2 or maybe Infinity 3.

Paul

I got infinity 4 for 47 a month including line rental, so not bad, I was paying 20 a month + 17 line rental for 5meg ADSL

LOL

Some real prices do alter the assessment .

At that price I'm not going to argue much with your choice. I happily pay £49pm for (actual) 75/13 or so with a 200GB pm allowance which I hardly dent. To the extent that with the auto-carryover it has 345GB unused on Day 2 of my billing month.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 14-Jan-18 22:21:21)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

LOL

Some real prices do alter the assessment .

At that price I'm not going to argue much with your choice. I happily pay £49pm for (actual) 75/13 or so with a 200GB pm allowance which I hardly dent. To the extent that with the auto-carryover it has 345GB unused on Day 2 of my billing month.

Yeah, and infinity 4 is unlimited

I actually pay £20 a month too for a vodafone data sim with 50gb, so thats another saving really

Know how you feel! I am in a similar situation; currently have 5-6 Mbit ADSL but should have FTTP available soon. The current connection is really struggling now with 3 people gaming/streaming at the same time.

I will probably go for a 80/20 connection with PlusNet, who I am in the process of switching to. Think that will be a big enough improvement, for now at least and the price isn't much more than I am currently paying.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

I got infinity 4 for 47 a month including line rental, so not bad, I was paying 20 a month + 17 line rental for 5meg ADSL

We were paying £5 a month (not including line rental) for our 3-5Mbit ADSL2+ connection.

For our Infinity 4 we are paying about the same, would of been about £50 (without line rental) per month due to being out of contract.

So back in November / December last year I phoned up BT done a little haggling to the nice BT lady on the phone and we got around the same price if not a little lower (not by much though) so re-subbed for another 12 to 18 months.

So very happy I phoned them

Paul

looks like sales lady messed up my order and put my on infinity 3 ( 200mb ) and i rang them today and they said I can just upgrade when its in to infinity 4.. saves cancelling it

he said it takes 24 hours to upgrade, is it really that fast?

It could be faster it is only keyboard work to change a setting. Sales person enters the order it processes through the different systems from Retail to Wholesale to Openreach where it is actioned by the systems without any other person touching it.

For some changes they are done overnight but no reason for yours to be as it involves no downtime.

Completion is then reported back and changes your package on the front end.

Should be single touch. If you placed the order on a web front end it is possible to do it with NO touch within the supplier. ( I believe if you were with BT they can do this).

I'm supposed to have engineer visit on 5th, logged onto my bt site to check status and this pops up

" We have not received commitment for the order yet, so it may become delayed "

great, can't wait to see what this is all about

rang BT today and they said openreach have cancelled it from their end ( for 2nd time ) so they are going to ring back and find out why it keep getting cancelled

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

rang BT today and they said openreach have cancelled it from their end ( for 2nd time ) so they are going to ring back and find out why it keep getting cancelled

Just make notes of all these cancelations / issues and mess ups etc, you can complain and get compo, just don't be greedy, BT can be reasonable with their compo.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Just make notes of all these cancelations / issues and mess ups etc, you can complain and get compo, just don't be greedy, BT can be reasonable with their compo.

Paul

what sort of compo?

It's openreach, not BT.. so I dunno how I'd claim any compo as its not really BT's fault

BT are the supplier and therefore it is them that pay compensation to the customer.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Just make notes of all these cancelations / issues and mess ups etc, you can complain and get compo, just don't be greedy, BT can be reasonable with their compo.

Paul

what sort of compo?

It's openreach, not BT.. so I dunno how I'd claim any compo as its not really BT's fault

Well I am not getting into the convo of who owns what, but due to issues with BT's Engineers not being able to complete our install at the agreed date, and then keep failing to do the install for multiple months, due to their blunder and their system they use, we were able to get a very reasonable compo which paid for our Infinity 4 for a while.

Once it was finally installed, BT asked me what compo I was hoping for and I was honest to them and said what I thought was fair, and they jumped at it, I could of probably got more, but was happy what I got.

Paul

In reply to a post by ian72:

BT are the supplier and therefore it is them that pay compensation to the customer.

+1
I have argued this many times with people, even when I show whats in the email and webpage footers

Paul

For the consumer no matter who the wholesale supplier is, if the retailer cannot deliver then down to them when negotiating compensation.

The idea then is that this increases pressure for retailers to pressure wholesalers to do a better job, and retailers to claim compensation themselves from the wholesaler

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Well I am not getting into the convo of who owns what, but due to issues with BT's Engineers not being able to complete our install at the agreed date, and then keep failing to do the install for multiple months, due to their blunder and their system they use, we were able to get a very reasonable compo which paid for our Infinity 4 for a while.

Once it was finally installed, BT asked me what compo I was hoping for and I was honest to them and said what I thought was fair, and they jumped at it, I could of probably got more, but was happy what I got.

Paul

hundreds or thousands?

tbh I ordered on 11th, they said openreach rejected, apparently i couldnt go from sky broadband to infinity 4, bug on system.. thought it was weird so I said ok

re-ordered on infinity 2 and then we was gonna upgade to infinity 4.. engineer is 5th feb.. rang last night and they said openreach canceled again

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Well I am not getting into the convo of who owns what, but due to issues with BT's Engineers not being able to complete our install at the agreed date, and then keep failing to do the install for multiple months, due to their blunder and their system they use, we were able to get a very reasonable compo which paid for our Infinity 4 for a while.

Once it was finally installed, BT asked me what compo I was hoping for and I was honest to them and said what I thought was fair, and they jumped at it, I could of probably got more, but was happy what I got.

Paul

hundreds or thousands?

tbh I ordered on 11th, they said openreach rejected, apparently i couldnt go from sky broadband to infinity 4, bug on system.. thought it was weird so I said ok

re-ordered on infinity 2 and then we was gonna upgade to infinity 4.. engineer is 5th feb.. rang last night and they said openreach canceled again

If only it was in the thousands LOL

The way I see it, if FTTP is there it shouldn't matter who you were with before, FTTP is FTTP end of.

My guesses are there was / is some build issues some place physically or on their system.

And BT seems to be stuck in their old ways when getting FTTP installed.

Its probably due to where a very small percentage actually have access to FTTP, which is mostly why a lot of ISP's won't provide a FTTP package.

Paul

I contacted cerebus who gave me this helpful email

" Over the past week, BT have had a systems issue that has resulted in FTTP orders being cancelled without any apparent reason. We have had to re-place many of our orders as a consequence of this issue, only to have them cancel again.



This has been escalated internally within BT and they are working on a systems update to fix the problem. I understand this may take up to 10 days to complete during which time we are being advised that the ordering system may not be fully available.



I further understand that this is a problem that is affecting many ISPs."

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

I contacted cerebus who gave me this helpful email

" Over the past week, BT have had a systems issue that has resulted in FTTP orders being cancelled without any apparent reason. We have had to re-place many of our orders as a consequence of this issue, only to have them cancel again.

This has been escalated internally within BT and they are working on a systems update to fix the problem. I understand this may take up to 10 days to complete during which time we are being advised that the ordering system may not be fully available.

I further understand that this is a problem that is affecting many ISPs."

That's possible, or just a fob off by them or BT.

But could be related to the FTTP speeds as late, like I currently have 300Mbits (down) and 30Mbits (up) but BT Wholesale says I can now get the 300Mbits (down) and 50Mbits (up), so an extra 20Mbits up which is great news for me, so this "could" be the issues they are referring to.

But I was just referring to FTTP in general.

Paul

BT bttp call and say " Your order has indeed been cancelled, can find no reason why with openreach so have been assigned a case handler "

great, 2 and a half weeks wasted.. thats 2 orders inexplicably cancelled now

I wonder how they get any business done!

That is very strange, even when there is build issues and where BT's Engineers cannot do the install for some stupid reason your order remains as an open order, only BT Sales would / should close your order.

I say email the CEO and Chairman's Office at BT and politely explain what has happened and that you are not happy in how the issues have been dealt with or the lack of information given to you on the issues.

CEO of Openreach
Email: [removed by tbb]

Chief Executive of BT Group
Email: [removed by tbb]

Chairman of BT
Email: [removed by tbb]

If you send an email send it to all 3 in one email so that each can see that you have emailed the others.

And once again, be polite but be firm, if you go off on one they probably won't respond.

You will also have to supply your full address and landline number in the email, and hopefully one of their staff members will phone you back, I sent my email in the evening and got a phone call the next morning, but I had my local MP involved as well, but you might also be lucky.

Paul

Edited by seb (Mon 02-Feb-26 22:04:05)

Don't send it to Michael Rake. Jan du Plessis is the chairman.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Don't send it to Michael Rake. Jan du Plessis is the chairman.

Oh has Michael gone now, I heard he was stepping down or doing other stuff, just didn't it had happened already.
I have always emailed the 3 at once and had a phone call the next day or so from the chairman's office, so maybe it was passed onto the right person.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

That is very strange, even when there is build issues and where BT's Engineers cannot do the install for some stupid reason your order remains as an open order, only BT Sales would / should close your order.

I say email the CEO and Chairman's Office at BT and politely explain what has happened and that you are not happy in how the issues have been dealt with or the lack of information given to you on the issues.

CEO of Openreach
Email: [removed by tbb]

Chief Executive of BT Group
Email: [removed by tbb]

Chairman of BT
Email: [removed by tbb]

If you send an email send it to all 3 in one email so that each can see that you have emailed the others.

And once again, be polite but be firm, if you go off on one they probably won't respond.

You will also have to supply your full address and landline number in the email, and hopefully one of their staff members will phone you back, I sent my email in the evening and got a phone call the next morning, but I had my local MP involved as well, but you might also be lucky.

Paul

The order is open in BT, but speaking to FTTP team on phone, they said Openreach cancelled it.. I will wait until case handler speaks to me and see if he can shed some more details, and then email the CEO

Edited by seb (Mon 02-Feb-26 22:04:20)

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

The order is open in BT, but speaking to FTTP team on phone, they said Openreach cancelled it.. I will wait until case handler speaks to me and see if he can shed some more details, and then email the CEO

Ah, ok, that was what ours was like, its kept as an open order so that you don't loose your allocated fibre cable.
If it was cancelled the fibre would get released for another user that make an order.

Yeah wait to see what is said by your case handler, have loads of questions to ask them when they call to why it was cancelled by their engineering team (i.e. their BT Group Openreach), my guesses will be "its a build issue" and that you have a TAG put on your line which needs to be removed before it can progress further.

But yeah, if you are not happy with the outcome, tell them (i.e. the case handler) that you are not happy how this is progressing or the lack of it and that you will be notifying the CEO Gavin Patterson, also see if your local MP will help, I know getting mine involved helped a lot.

Also like I said before be polite but firm, being rude won't resolve anything and might make things worse.

I was lucky due to my type of background I was countering their reasons why ours had an issue and it put them on the spot.

And several days later I got a phone call saying the Build Issue TAG was removed and that I would receive another call with engineer visit dates.

Then a few hours later where I was given a date for the external work and the day after for the internal work.

Paul

Post deleted by SJHambly

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Ah, ok, that was what ours was like, its kept as an open order so that you don't loose your allocated fibre cable.
If it was cancelled the fibre would get released for another user that make an order.

Yeah wait to see what is said by your case handler, have loads of questions to ask them when they call to why it was cancelled by their engineering team (i.e. their BT Group Openreach), my guesses will be "its a build issue" and that you have a TAG put on your line which needs to be removed before it can progress further.

But yeah, if you are not happy with the outcome, tell them (i.e. the case handler) that you are not happy how this is progressing or the lack of it and that you will be notifying the CEO Gavin Patterson, also see if your local MP will help, I know getting mine involved helped a lot.

Also like I said before be polite but firm, being rude won't resolve anything and might make things worse.

I was lucky due to my type of background I was countering their reasons why ours had an issue and it put them on the spot.

And several days later I got a phone call saying the Build Issue TAG was removed and that I would receive another call with engineer visit dates.

Then a few hours later where I was given a date for the external work and the day after for the internal work.

Paul

thanks for your response you are very helpful

what is a TAG and why would one be on anyones line?

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

thanks for your response you are very helpful

what is a TAG and why would one be on anyones line?

A TAG is a flag / notice / warning etc.
They get put on your line when there is issue, could be physical or software issues.

Normally the issues need to be resolved before they get removed, and the TAG can stop you getting fibre etc.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

A TAG is a flag / notice / warning etc.
They get put on your line when there is issue, could be physical or software issues.

Normally the issues need to be resolved before they get removed, and the TAG can stop you getting fibre etc.

Paul

No call from the case handler today, they can call up to 9 but im not holding any hope, this is starting to become a [censored] joke

the BT website still says your appointment has been booked and your engineer will arrive from 8 to 1pm, if I hadnt of called, id still be waiting I think

any ideas how to word the email? I've never written to a CEO before, and I have a funny feeling he will say " what do you want me to do about it "

Just write it as a formal letter to Mr Patterson/Selley.
Include your home phone number, account number and order reference.
Write something like ' I am contacting you regarding the ongoing problems I am having placing an FTTP order'. Include the salient dates and the current status as far as you are aware. Dosnt need to be war and peace. In fact keep it simple and straight forward is best.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

No call from the case handler today, they can call up to 9 but im not holding any hope, this is starting to become a [censored] joke

Yeah, I had to do all the phoning to get updates from my case handler, a neighbour of mine who ordered FTTP 10 mins after me had all the issues resolved within 5 mins by his case handler, now my case handler took a couple of weeks.

I did receive a couple of phone calls from my case handler at 10pm, so she was working late.

The annoying thing was we both had the same build issue, so ours should of been resolved just as quick as my neighbours.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

the BT website still says your appointment has been booked and your engineer will arrive from 8 to 1pm, if I hadnt of called, id still be waiting I think

Yeah, ours over lapped by a month, we ended up having several engineers booked, but only half of them turned up and had to walk away due to the build issue, the whole issue and how they were running was a joke.

It seems that nobody talks to each other which made things worse.

Our issue was the fibres in the Splitter Node didn't match what they had in their system.
It took a whole month for them to pull out the finger in their backside and send out engineers to re-do all the all the fibres in the Splitter Node.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

any ideas how to word the email? I've never written to a CEO before, and I have a funny feeling he will say " what do you want me to do about it "

Like witchunt has already said keep it simple, small and to the point.
Nobody likes reading a long email.

Mine was a lager email due to I had photo evidence along with a copy of the email that I sent to my local MP, a form of scare tactics which paid off in the end.

Also a word of warning, be carful what you put in the email, your case handler will get a copy of this email, so don't bad mouth the case handler

I was up front to my case handler and told her "I don't want to be rude or anything, but is there anyone else in the office that can get this resolved, I ask because a neighbour of mine had the same build issue which was resolved within 5 mins" sadly I was told no.

Paul

I was told on friday to expect a call handler call by monday.. nothing by monday

Rang on tuesday, expect a call.. nothing

rang today.. spent 30 minutes on phone to FTTP team and they said " your order was stuck between the broadband team " and i told them its been cancelled twice now, so im not about to cancel and reorder again, lady said " hold on just a second ", 5 minutes into the hold.. I was cut off, or they hung up

either way they didnt ring me back

so now I have to ring up again and explain it all over again to a nice member of the fttp team!

More ammo for that email assuming you have not sent it already

so my case handler rang today and said we can now proceed with the installation and given me an activation date of 7th March, which is 3 and a half weeks away

I dont know what to think of that, being that I first ordered 5th January and now will have to wait another 3 and a half weeks, I suppose there is nothing I can do about it as I'm at mercy of openreach, but very frustrating

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

so my case handler rang today and said we can now proceed with the installation and given me an activation date of 7th March, which is 3 and a half weeks away

I dont know what to think of that, being that I first ordered 5th January and now will have to wait another 3 and a half weeks, I suppose there is nothing I can do about it as I'm at mercy of openreach, but very frustrating

Well we waited 5 years for fibre even though all the hardware was in place back in 2011 - 2012 and all that needed to be done was them to update their database.

But yeah it can be frustrating at times.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Well we waited 5 years for fibre even though all the hardware was in place back in 2011 - 2012 and all that needed to be done was them to update their database.

But yeah it can be frustrating at times.

Paul

They said it might be delayed due to work required in my area, do you know the process? I thought they just run a fibre line to my house, but where does that line come from? the manholes?

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

They said it might be delayed due to work required in my area, do you know the process? I thought they just run a fibre line to my house, but where does that line come from? the manholes?

Yes, but where it goes from there would depend on the type of FTTP install you get.

You need space in your Splitter Node and also space on the DP / Manifold or the new Connectorized Blocks.

You also need to have a fibre node in your area, i.e. aggregation nodes, these nodes are daisy chained to other aggregation nodes and so on.

Each aggregation node takes some fibres which go off to the splitter nodes.
Splitter Nodes can take in up to 4 fibres where each fibre is split 32 times (so 4 * 32 = 128) so in theory each Splitter Node can support up to 128 fibre connections.

These 1 to 128 fibres coming out of the Splitter Node then goes into the DP Hardware located in the chambers, the DP will take about 12 or so fibres and pass through the remaining fibres to go to the next DP hardware and so on.

These 12 or so fibres go up the phone pole (if you have a phone pole) into the Manifold and then waits for an order.

Forgot to say the old FTTP install type requires the Chamber to be the new modern larger square version, so your delay might be doe to that, or waiting for more fibres to be installed, clearing blockages, could be anything.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Mon 12-Feb-18 17:28:02)

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Yes, but where it goes from there would depend on the type of FTTP install you get.

You need space in your Splitter Node and also space on the DP / Manifold or the new Connectorized Blocks.

You also need to have a fibre node in your area, i.e. aggregation nodes, these nodes are daisy chained to other aggregation nodes and so on.

Each aggregation node takes some fibres which go off to the splitter nodes.
Splitter Nodes can take in up to 4 fibres where each fibre is split 32 times (so 4 * 32 = 128) so in theory each Splitter Node can support up to 128 fibre connections.

These 1 to 128 fibres coming out of the Splitter Node then goes into the DP Hardware located in the chambers, the DP will take about 12 or so fibres and pass through the remaining fibres to go to the next DP hardware and so on.

These 12 or so fibres go up the phone pole (if you have a phone pole) into the Manifold and then waits for an order.

Forgot to say the old FTTP install type requires the Chamber to be the new modern larger square version, so your delay might be doe to that, or waiting for more fibres to be installed, clearing blockages, could be anything.

Paul

I'm pretty sure we dont have a phone pole, im sure our existing copper line goes over roof of houses, not sure where it goes from there, but cant have a wire strung across street so i guess it goes somewhere

some progress, my case handler says Openreach have to carry out a survey and to my surprise a day later two openreach engineers knocked on my door

and said I have two options, run it directly to it which will require paperwork to dig, or put it through my gable end, which wont.. so I picked the second one

the case handler said survey report will be done on 23rd, hopefully that has good news and I can get my order active by March 7th

case manager rang, said engineers will be here on 7th

I think they need to do work outside my house, but haven't heard from them, is that a good sign?

They will most likely not have sight of your job till 7th.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

They will most likely not have sight of your job till 7th.

They said they will need to do some work outside a week before, I havent seen any vans around area though

Could be a stock message, I also received a text with the same message coincidentally also for an install on the 7th but don�t believe there�s anything to do at the property since it�s a connectorised install

Engineer visit is tomorrow ( today ) the 7th

however one thing I just realised

the outside work which should of been completed a week ago, I presume that was when they fit the box outside my house, that has NOT been done, when I rang BT 4 days ago I was told the outside work was done ( I always thought they meant work in the ducts etc )

we will see how tomorrow goes, whether the engineer does the cabling on the outside and the inside, not looking good though

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

Engineer visit is tomorrow ( today ) the 7th

however one thing I just realised

the outside work which should of been completed a week ago, I presume that was when they fit the box outside my house, that has NOT been done, when I rang BT 4 days ago I was told the outside work was done ( I always thought they meant work in the ducts etc )

we will see how tomorrow goes, whether the engineer does the cabling on the outside and the inside, not looking good though

Is yours a 1 or 2 stage install, the BT DSL Checker will say.

If yours is a 2 stage install you might have issues, but you might be lucky they might do both, I know I had my internal work done the next day after the external work was done, so its possible.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Is yours a 1 or 2 stage install, the BT DSL Checker will say.

If yours is a 2 stage install you might have issues, but you might be lucky they might do both, I know I had my internal work done the next day after the external work was done, so its possible.

Paul

its stage 1, but doesnt matter, I just rang FTTP team who told me the engineer wont be visiting today as outside work isnt done, " some digging required " Can't wait to see what my case handler says about this

nothing from case handler today, she might be off

email finally shot off to CEO office, lets hope this works

I find it bemusing that they did a survey on 23rd of Feb and case handler had results on 24th, she then said the engineer will visit today

and now all of a sudden they need to dig, which will of surely come up on the survey, and if it didnt, at what point did it come up, it didnt come up today as no one turned up

Looks like the CEO replied himself

" I am sorry we have let you down and I understand your frustration. I have asked the service team to contact you to resolve matters.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Sincerely,

Gavin Patterson "

or thats his secretary

How did you send the email, my emails use to work, they all get refused now.



I just tried again and I get the following:

<[email protected]>: host smtpb1.bt.com[62.7.242.141] said: 550 5.5.0
    550 5.7.1 Requested action not taken: message refused (in reply to end of
    DATA command)

Is that the same email address you are using?

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Wed 07-Mar-18 19:54:35)

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

How you get send the email, my emails use to work, they are get refused now.



Paul

I just sent it to Gavins email via hotmail, Im not sure if thats from him or his secretary but looks like him, maybe he was checking his emails on his chauffeur ride home

Maybe you've been sending too many, Paul? Been blocked?

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

How you get send the email, my emails use to work, they are get refused now.



Paul

I just sent it to Gavins email via hotmail, Im not sure if thats from him or his secretary but looks like him, maybe he was checking his emails on his chauffeur ride home

It might of been from one of his team, they normally phone up a day or two later.

But I hope your get your install all sorted.

Paul

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Maybe you've been sending too many, Paul? Been blocked?

Well I haven't sent that many, maybe it was due to me getting my local MP involved back then along with the couple of emails I sent back then all which countered their excuses why at the time we couldn't get FTTP.

I think in total over the 3 years I sent 4 emails, I was never rude and they was short emails.

I might give a week and try another email address on one of my other domains, if that also fails then BT have blocked out mail server, so to test that out I could try one of my GMail Accounts LOL

What I did notice though was emails to the people I normally speak too with BTOR emails were blocked also not long after we got fibre. And I know they use the same group of mail servers.

Ah well, no worries

Paul

had 2 emails already

one from somebody who works for andy whale ( chief engineer ) he used these words

" I will remain in contact and add the full weight of the chief engineers team to resolve this for you. "

and another email from ELC showing me whats going on

so its promising so far

got this reply

" I have escalated the below to the local manager who tells me that the ducting work is due to be completed on the 12/3, once this is completed we will make the order fluid and come out the connect you up "


No idea what that means but I presume its the fibre under the ground

big progress

saw openreach guys before at end of row of houses installing ducting work, they had to close of the alleyway and dig, not sure how much that is costing BT

so the engineers came today and the box is on my neighbours gable end ( guess thats only way it can be wired ) and neighbours refused to let the cable be ran across their property, so im stuck

we live on a block of 3 and im at the end

What box?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

What box?

Don't know the correct term.. my neighbours gable end, the existing ducting comes out at side of her property, from there it goes up her wall, they was going to wire round her house to mine, which is on the end

So, where does your existing phone wire run?

If the ductig was put there to provide service to all properties, then there must be an agreement in place to allow wiring from it.

In reply to a post by MHC:

So, where does your existing phone wire run?

If the ductig was put there to provide service to all properties, then there must be an agreement in place to allow wiring from it.

along top of her guttering

its a private house so she obviously needs permission to put a cable across surely, or else its tresspassing

Permission may already be there.

For example, where I am, my water and power come through a neighbours land and their garage power runs through mine. The deeds actually specify that access must be granted to install and maintain "services" which normally includes water, electricity, gas and telecoms.

What do yours say as you already have some across the neighbouring land/property.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Permission may already be there.

For example, where I am, my water and power come through a neighbours land and their garage power runs through mine. The deeds actually specify that access must be granted to install and maintain "services" which normally includes water, electricity, gas and telecoms.

What do yours say as you already have some across the neighbouring land/property.

I will have to check that, the other option is Openreach diggin a new duct, not sure on estimated costs, but im only about 10 metres from the manhole, will require some digging though

Depends on what needs digging through and what is already in the ground there, and make push costs to point where excess construction fees get mentioned.

Seriously if your existing phone line goes via the route then there is usually an agreement in deeds about utility service access.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Depends on what needs digging through and what is already in the ground there, and make push costs to point where excess construction fees get mentioned.

Seriously if your existing phone line goes via the route then there is usually an agreement in deeds about utility service access.

the existing phone line goes over the roofs i think or near to the guttering, the BT engineer said new fibre line will need to be 8 foot high on the wall, or near top of guttering, either way the neighbour says it will look unsightly, but perhaps she didnt understand what they meant

I will try to explain to her later on what will be involved, they left me a sample fibre cable to show her

update : just spoke to owner of house, and he said its okay if its up top near existing copper near guttering

when engineers spoke to him they told him it will be 8 foot high right across middle of his rendering, no wonder he said no

still waiting on neighbour to have his roof finished, pain in the backside

Not helped by fact that openreach tacked the fibre box onto side of his house without asking, so on the back foot

the other option is digging up front and routing a duct to side of my house, the manhole is like 25 feet from my front door, anyone have any idea how much the construction costs would be for that?

They came today, wired me up, installed the ONT

they read a signal and said they had a light reading, and then rang someone to give modem serial number

However, the PON light is still flashing green. They said there was an issue round corner with network. How common is this fault? and how long does it take?

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

They came today, wired me up, installed the ONT

they read a signal and said they had a light reading, and then rang someone to give modem serial number

However, the PON light is still flashing green. They said there was an issue round corner with network. How common is this fault? and how long does it take?

The PON light on the ONT should turn a solid green once its serial # has been successfully registered on the Openreach database and is able to 'sync' to the exchange. This procedure should take no more than a few mins, mine took about 30 seconds. It seems there might be a local outage in your area or your FTTP port in the exchange has issues. Chase this up with your ISP who should get updates from Openreach wrt fix times.

<Pedantic mode on>
Btw there is no such thing as a modem on FTTP
<Pedantic mode off>

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Mar-18 14:04:34)

Is there times when the PON light �hangs� for a split second staying solid briefly ?

This can be an indicator of the fibre being misrouted to the wrong head end tray in the exchange.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Is there times when the PON light �hangs� for a split second staying solid briefly ?

This can be an indicator of the fibre being misrouted to the wrong head end tray in the exchange.

Yeah, thats what it sounds like from their explanation but it was all mumbo jumbo to me

it does hang for a split second and gets my hopes up

Yep, I�d guess that it�s connected to a fibre from the wrong bundle in the splitter, so is on the wrong SASA in the exchange.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yep, I�d guess that it�s connected to a fibre from the wrong bundle in the splitter, so is on the wrong SASA in the exchange.

Wouldn't that of resulted in a build issue being raised when they did the external stage?

I ask that due to that's what happed to us down my road if you recall, where the fibres was all in the incorrect trays at the splitter.

The single fibre going into the splitter was in the correct tray, but the up to 32 fibres leaving the splitter was incorrect.

The fix was for the engineers (4 engineers watching the 5th do the work LOL) to disconnect all up to 32 fibres and re-join them back into the correct trays and correct split fibres.

Paul

Nope, these issues are not detected at first stage it would seem. It is just relied on that the stage one bod knows how to read a splitter and uses a spare from the right tray.......

I think the issue you had was different .... The fibres feeding the splitter (E sides, as it were) were misrouted , resulting in no light at all.

What the OP mentions, (and I am guessing here, from what�s been said) as it�s on a fibre from the wrong SASA tray in the splitter, although it has been lit from the exchange the serial number is not appearing where expected on the head end .....

The head end has been told for order XXX the light/serial number from the ONT should appear on fibre X in tray Y .... once in agreement �sync� sorta, it then gets the remote build for the services ......

If the serial number number is appearing on a different tray in the exchange, sync/lit PON light (whatever it might be called) doesn�t occur.

It does make the flashing PON light on the ONT momentarily �hang� every few minutes ... and that seems to be the tell tale.

After 9 years of waiting for fibre ( or at least it feels like that ) I finally have FTTP!

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

After 9 years of waiting for fibre ( or at least it feels like that ) I finally have FTTP!

Nice, how much have you abused it so far LOL.

Also what's your BQM like?

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Nice, how much have you abused it so far LOL.

Also what's your BQM like?

Paul

I have downloaded about 50gb already today, making up for lost time

What is BQM? I found one on thinkbroadband website, but that takes a day to make?

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Nice, how much have you abused it so far LOL.

Also what's your BQM like?

Paul

I have downloaded about 50gb already today, making up for lost time

What is BQM? I found one on thinkbroadband website, but that takes a day to make?

Here:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Its starts instantly, but will take at least a day to cover the whole graph.

I assume you don't have a Static IP, so you might have issues when you IP changes and BT do love to change your IP when you are not expecting it

I had to setup my own DDNS up form mine.

A BQM isn't required, just helpful if you have issues.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

[
I assume you don't have a Static IP, so you might have issues when you IP changes and BT do love to change your IP when you are not expecting it :P


[/quote]

How often does the IP change on FTTP usually? Is it the last digit or the whole range?

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I assume you don't have a Static IP, so you might have issues when you IP changes and BT do love to change your IP when you are not expecting it


Paul

Actually I might have a static IP, as in the homehub it says " dynamic DNS " off, and then i can switch it on and enter a user/pass?

That's just a configurable option present on the Homehub and isn't an indication of a static IP.

If you're a BT residential customer then you don't have a static IP.

You can set up a DDNS (Dynamic DNS) service that can mirror your dynamic IP to a static IP/Hostname.
Many of the free services offer hostnames like yourusername.ddnscompany.com

There are both free and paid for DDNS services you can sign up for.
I'm not sure which ones are compatible with the HomeHub.

There are also Windows/Linux/Mac DDNS programs if you can't find anything you like compatible with the HomeHub. They really need to be run on an "always on" machine to be effective though.

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I assume you don't have a Static IP, so you might have issues when you IP changes and BT do love to change your IP when you are not expecting it

How often does the IP change on FTTP usually? Is it the last digit or the whole range?

Its random, I have had an IP for as long as 3 months to as short as 2 weeks.

The sad thing is there is no way to know when its going to happen, the worst thing is when I am remote connected with files open and editing them, I have a few times lost several hours due to files locked open and when I closed them as root (admin) user the files was empty.

Paul

In reply to a post by broadbandman:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I assume you don't have a Static IP, so you might have issues when you IP changes and BT do love to change your IP when you are not expecting it

Paul

Actually I might have a static IP, as in the homehub it says " dynamic DNS " off, and then i can switch it on and enter a user/pass?

Go to http://ipv6-test.com/ and copy your IPv4 address and in a command prompt run ping -a YOUR_IPv4_ADDRESS

*** Make sure the -a is in the above line ***

If it says something like the following:

Pinging hostXXX-XXX-XXX-XXX.rangeXXX-XXX.btcentralplus.com [XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX]

Then you have a dynamic IPv4 Address.

Paul

Don't worry about the BQM just enjoy the connection

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

That's just a configurable option present on the Homehub and isn't an indication of a static IP.

If you're a BT residential customer then you don't have a static IP.

You can set up a DDNS (Dynamic DNS) service that can mirror your dynamic IP to a static IP/Hostname.
Many of the free services offer hostnames like yourusername.ddnscompany.com

There are both free and paid for DDNS services you can sign up for.
I'm not sure which ones are compatible with the HomeHub.

There are also Windows/Linux/Mac DDNS programs if you can't find anything you like compatible with the HomeHub. They really need to be run on an "always on" machine to be effective though.

I ended up writing my own one due to I didn't want to install anything, So my DHCP Server sends a hello_message to our remote dedicated server every 60 seconds.

And if the IP has changed from what is stored on the dedicated server it changes the DDNS record in BIND and in another 60 seconds the new record is live, so you might just see a long thin red line between updates, unless it failed to update that is.

The hello_message is basically username, password, key (uuid), domain, hostname (ddns subdomain) which is sent over HTTPS (TLS) it also sends me an email when it changes too.

TBH, it could be dome better, but I wanted something done very quick there and then.

Paul

Its random, I have had an IP for as long as 3 months to as short as 2 weeks.

I wrote a script that pings the DDNS address of a client's router every hour to try and track this. Their BT IP address typlically changes every day, sometimes twice a day. If I knew it was going to be so unstable, I'd have recommended a static IP address as it means the remote CCTV system keeps dropping offline until the DDNS change ripples around the internet.

I suspect that the VDSL link is dropping and being re-established on a regular basis but as the BT routers don't have remote access and/or very good logging, it's difficult to check when it happens.

+1

It�s not VDSL.

Is there nothing in the technical log of the router to back up your theory ? Personally I�d guess if it were being �dropped regularly� then there�d be a lot more posts about it on here, and I�d be busier at work.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It�s not VDSL.

Is there nothing in the technical log of the router to back up your theory ? Personally I�d guess if it were being �dropped regularly� then there�d be a lot more posts about it on here, and I�d be busier at work.

One would hope that FTTP is more stable than VDSL - I was just pointing out that changing IP on BT kit isn't unknown. But yes, that's with the BT Hubs which aren't the best bit of kit around in terms of line stability. Never seen a BT FTTP install - is it a separate modem and router set-up (like the older OpenReach white box) or do they have a combined fibre modem & router?

Fibre ONT that then connects to the router via Ethernet

VDSL2 service is cycling IP address daily has some serious stability issues and needs investigating.

Sorry, thought you were the OP.

Mr. S has already answered .... separate ONT then ethernet link to a router (any with a configurable WAN port should do the trick I believe)

I must admit my VDSL service with a hub6 on it is rock solid. But I�m not overly �geeky� just as long as it connects and stays up, that�s me pretty happy.

In reply to a post by robnicholson:

One would hope that FTTP is more stable than VDSL

Well I have had FTTP since October - November 2016 and I have yet to get a dropped connection.
Sure my IP changes now and then, but not multiple times a day, more like every month or two etc.

Paul

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I must admit my VDSL service with a hub6 on it is rock solid. But I�m not overly �geeky� just as long as it connects and stays up, that�s me pretty happy.

Agreed, I was checking a lot when I first got FTTP due to a habbit of checking all the time when on ADSL2+.
I now hardly check unless I notice something.

I still get buffering issues on Twitch, but its Twitches end.

Other than that mine is rock solid.

Paul

Paul

Likely the IP changes when something gets updated in the Network, so either a change of VLAN, router path, or network config somewhere. With the constant growing & updating of the network this is likely every 4-6 weeks for most customers and is a natural outcome of increased usage both locally and nationally.

It has no effect on most customers, those on Consumer packages using Business type services are those most affected but paying for a Static IP would overcome this. If you don't want to pay dealing with the IP changing is what it costs you. (Back to "you get what you pay for")

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I must admit my VDSL service with a hub6 on it is rock solid. But I�m not overly �geeky� just as long as it connects and stays up, that�s me pretty happy.

I think "mileage varies" is an apt comment here re: BT hub stability. I've replaced about five in the last year with TP-Link & Draytek devices (depending on the business size) because the BT hub was just not stable enough - ADSL or VDSL. The customer was having to restart the hub a little too often.

As a sometimes programmer I'm a bit of a loss what exactly happens with the BT Hub for it to require a physical reboot to get it working again. The blue light is on but it just stops working. The Draytek 2680 that replaced it has been rock solid/up for months - the line does drop occasionally (like once a week) but the Draytek just carries on regardless.

I can't believe it's a hardware bug so suspicion falls on software but for a device that's so widely used, it's amazing the bug hasn't been fixed.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

VDSL2 service is cycling IP address daily has some serious stability issues and needs investigating.

Tell me about! This client has two VDSL2 lines that come in to the property at the same place. One goes into the office and the other carries on for about another 500m to serve a caravan/lodge park. Despite initial speed guarantees, the office one never got >12Mbps whereas the park gets ~20Mbps. Recently I was trying to do some remote support to the office and the connection was awful. A speed test revealed the link had dropped from ~12Mbps to 1.5Mbps - nothing changed hardware wise. Also, there was noise on the line. BT fixed the noise but the speed is still 1.5Mbps.

My client has rung BT *five* times so far trying to get them to resolve this but each time they simply say "There is no fault on the line". And BT wonder why they often appear bottom of the customer service!!

It's the other link that I'm monitoring and below are the IP changes,. Four times on 31st March...

They need to get an OpenReach engineer out there to do some testing.

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Move them to AAISP and get them on the case to get things fixed and things like DLM reset once a fault is cleared.

As a programmer and one who has worked things of many varying sizes,

Routers crashing are down to things like unhandled exceptions in code, error counters cycling beyond design and not being caught causing buffer overrun type issues. NAT tables which are too small or not managed well and the list goes on.

Small embedded hardware software design and getting it right so it runs for months is not that simple given the vast range of use scenarios. The expensive routers often are better by simply throwing more memory and faster process at the problem, they may also have higher tolerance capacitors which usually have a longer life span before they fail to the point of causing issues.

Once you add the variable of handling ADSL/VDSL2 on the modem side you can get issues e.g. sync period occupying 90% of processor cycles so web interface becomes unresponsive.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Paul

Likely the IP changes when something gets updated in the Network, so either a change of VLAN, router path, or network config somewhere. With the constant growing & updating of the network this is likely every 4-6 weeks for most customers and is a natural outcome of increased usage both locally and nationally.

It has no effect on most customers, those on Consumer packages using Business type services are those most affected but paying for a Static IP would overcome this. If you don't want to pay dealing with the IP changing is what it costs you. (Back to "you get what you pay for")

That's the issue, BT Business don't do an Infinity 4 equivalent package or I would of chosen it.
Its either 80Mbps or leased line, 80Mbps isn't enough depending on what we are doing at the time, and leased line is way out of my price range.

I even offered to pay double what they charge business for a Static IP but BT says no, I ask BT will they be offering a business package above 80Mbps that isn't over a leased line and they said no.

So its not just you get what you pay for, but its also down what is available.

Paul

Apologies for resurrecting this (fairly old thread) but I have just spent the last 40 minutes reading every post.

If it were a book it would be a best seller for sure.

I was engrossed in how the original poster finally got the go ahead to order FTTP but that's where the problems actually started.

What an experience from the beginning to actually being connected and super happy with the results in the end.

Best thread I have read on this site ever.

Thank you.