Openreach cancelled FTTP order - NAD issue?

Just bought a house in rural Mid-Wales. DSL checker initially showed FTTP "waiting list", due to lack of FDP capacity. After checking every few weeks, this became "available" so I placed an order. BT accepted the order, and after a few delays and hazy info for a few weeks, Openreach have now cancelled it.

The reason they have stated - "NAD requires reroute". Apparently they will have another update in a week for BT, and then order "should" be able to be placed again. I have tried unsuccessfully to get more info from BT - BT just say this means that local infrastructure is being built, but I'm sceptical that this could mean an address database error saying FTTP is available but isn't.

Could anyone shed any light on what this may mean, or perhaps suggest a way to have a conversation with Openreach to find out?

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Just bought a house in rural Mid-Wales. DSL checker initially showed FTTP "waiting list", due to lack of FDP capacity. After checking every few weeks, this became "available" so I placed an order. BT accepted the order, and after a few delays and hazy info for a few weeks, Openreach have now cancelled it.

BTOR have only cancelled the install, you will find that you still "should" have an open order, its best to keep that as an open order or you "will" loose your allocated fibre.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

The reason they have stated - "NAD requires reroute". Apparently they will have another update in a week for BT, and then order "should" be able to be placed again. I have tried unsuccessfully to get more info from BT - BT just say this means that local infrastructure is being built, but I'm sceptical that this could mean an address database error saying FTTP is available but isn't.

I "think" that means that the fibre route to your home might need upgrading or installed due to no fibres free at this moment, but might have some spare once a new fibre gets installed into the splitter.
A NAD is a Network Address that is linked to your line, you can also use this NAD Key along with your District ID when you do your DSL Lookup.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Could anyone shed any light on what this may mean, or perhaps suggest a way to have a conversation with Openreach to find out?

Have you tried chatting with BTOR on Twitter https://twitter.com/OpenreachHelp ?
They do chat to the public, I would suggest sending them a Message and not a Tweet that way things are kept private.

Paul

Thanks for the reply.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

BTOR have only cancelled the install, you will find that you still "should" have an open order, its best to keep that as an open order or you "will" loose your allocated fibre.

That's what I'm concerned about. I am going by the fact the order on the BT site now says complete/cancelled.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I "think" that means that the fibre route to your home might need upgrading or installed due to no fibres free at this moment, but might have some spare once a new fibre gets installed into the splitter.
A NAD is a Network Address that is linked to your line, you can also use this NAD Key along with your District ID when you do your DSL Lookup.

That's reassuring, thanks. I was concerned it pointed to a DB error, since the properties are Welsh spelt, there are a couple of permutations/similar addresses. A minor detail but I also noticed my property on the DSL checker has a NAD key but not the UPRN, whereas all the neighbours have both numbers...

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Have you tried chatting with BTOR on Twitter https://twitter.com/OpenreachHelp ?

Thanks for the suggestion, just sent a DM.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Thanks for the reply.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

BTOR have only cancelled the install, you will find that you still "should" have an open order, its best to keep that as an open order or you "will" loose your allocated fibre.

That's what I'm concerned about. I am going by the fact the order on the BT site now says complete/cancelled.

Hmmm, when we had build issues with our FTTP Install, BTOR cancelled the visit(s) and install multiple times, but our order with BT was kept open.
Basically you want BT to keep the order open to reserve the fibre for your install, there is nothing worse than spending loads of time getting this resolved to somebody else acquiring your fibre due to BT closed the order freeing up that fibre.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

I "think" that means that the fibre route to your home might need upgrading or installed due to no fibres free at this moment, but might have some spare once a new fibre gets installed into the splitter.
A NAD is a Network Address that is linked to your line, you can also use this NAD Key along with your District ID when you do your DSL Lookup.

That's reassuring, thanks. I was concerned it pointed to a DB error, since the properties are Welsh spelt, there are a couple of permutations/similar addresses. A minor detail but I also noticed my property on the DSL checker has a NAD key but not the UPRN, whereas all the neighbours have both numbers...

Well I might be wrong here so don't quote me on this, but UPRN (Unique Property Reference Number) which is a unique ID for every addressable location in GB.

I say due to a few houses that were made into multiple flats have the same linked UPRN (parent) but will also have an individual UPRN number.

I have also seen loads of addresses on the DSL Checker who also don't have a UPRN, not sure if this is an issue or not.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Have you tried chatting with BTOR on Twitter https://twitter.com/OpenreachHelp ?

Thanks for the suggestion, just sent a DM.

They are normally quick to reply, well they have when I speak to them.

Paul

They are normally quick to reply, well they have when I speak to them.

Paul

Indeed, last time I messaged them on Twitter they replied instantly telling me to go away and ask my Service Provider.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

They are normally quick to reply, well they have when I speak to them.

Paul

Indeed, last time I messaged them on Twitter they replied instantly telling me to go away and ask my Service Provider.

Really, I have spoken to them loads of times now and only one Guy told me that, so maybe you got somebody that was having a bad day, but it also depends on the issues and what and how you ask them.

I last asked them about a friends FTTC being removed not long after it was installed and they was very fast in replying and told me why.

So they do talk to you.

But then again I have reported loads of issues to them in the past.

Paul

I'd suggest it just means they need to reallocate a route to a different Fibre DP/Manifold, possibly due to capacity or because it's a more suitable method of installation.

I didn't get anywhere with the Openreach Twitter DM. I got a standard data protection reply saying they couldn't discuss with me directly and that any queries need to go via the ISP. Frustrating but I can appreciate their position.

I have however spoke with BT again to clarify what a NAD re-route actually means, and they said that a cancellation is normal procedure and once the routing is complete the order can be replaced. They explained the NAD routing is cabling to the address that needs to be redone, and not necessarily a problem with the address.

A reassuring update I think, I will keep you posted as and when I have an update from them on Friday.

I didn't get anywhere with the Openreach Twitter DM. I got a standard data protection reply saying they couldn't discuss with me directly and that any queries need to go via the ISP. Frustrating but I can appreciate their position.

Just what I said they would say

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Indeed, last time I messaged them on Twitter they replied instantly telling me to go away and ask my Service Provider.

I would wait and see if your ISP can sort it before having to contact OpenReach direct.

If it does come to that you may get a better response by emailing them. That shouldn't be necessary though.

Keep an eye on the broadband availability checker for any changes in the meantime.

I�ve checked the DSL checker this morning and now FTTP is no longer showing as available. This is the same for lookups via both my phone number and address.

I don�t know how up to date this data is. The only date on there is near the NTE Faceplate heading and that says 21.07.2018. Perhaps it�s only refreshed every 7 days or so and it�s just a blip?

We've had this issue multiple times where capacity issues causes months of delays of order to successfully progress through the system and processes. We've even seen the Openreach and BT Wholesale data go from WBC FTTP available to High Demand and then No plans for properties in the area. This then takes a while to get sorted (may need a bit of highlighting and nudging from CPs and yourself to get things back showing as available).

The data is live, no delay.

Doesn't sound promising.

Thanks for the reply. Out of interest what area of Wales are you in? Initially the checker said "waiting list" for FTTP, then it allowed me to place an order.

Because I'm in such a rural area, about 1.5miles from the nearest hamlet, but have fibre/ducting running feet from my house on telegraph poles, I feel the best way to resolve this and work out options would be a conversation with Openreach. Obviously this isn't possible.

@512uk Rural hamlet in South Wales. Our case is that all properties have access to a fibre DP/Manifold (blown fibre) but capacity issues at one or more of the splitter nodes is causing order cancellations along with the system now saying no plans. These issues started from the offset of fibre being available (so about 1 year now).

Had a call from a BT escalation manager, who is based in the executive office today, to discuss. Very helpful and promising and said he will speak to Openreach to clarify what is going on with the address and to find out what is or isn't possible long term.

Still no change on the DSL checker, FTTP still not available.

Also took a walk down my lane trying to follow the infrastructure, as there is clearly overhead/blown tube fibre going through the valley just below my house. This goes past and carries on further up the lane into the wilderness. On a pole I spotted what I think might be a FTTP manifold, splitting to three feeds.

Link to image

Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Aug-18 17:59:30)

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Also took a walk down my lane trying to follow the infrastructure, as there is clearly overhead/blown tube fibre going through the valley just below my house. This goes past and carries on further up the lane into the wilderness. On a pole I spotted what I think might be a FTTP manifold, splitting to three feeds.

Link to image

Maybe there are different types of manifolds, but I don't think that is a Fibre Manifold.

This is what >> Fibre Manifold (TBB) << we have up on our phone poles here.

Paul

I think it is fibre related and does look like the fibre infrastructure recently installed around my area. If you zoom into the image, note the yellow sticker on top, that looks like a laser/light source warning triangle which on a telegraph pole suggests it is fibre.

Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Aug-18 18:31:51)

@512uk

That image shows a splitter node mounted on a pole. This is not a fibre manifold. The manifolds look like this image https://www.thinkbroadband.com/images/news/6078-fttp...

If the area has the newer CBT fibre then these blocks will be present instead (can be pole mounted too) https://www.ispreview.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/cache...

Openreach ideally like properties to be within 150 meters of a manifold/CBT block in order to get FTTP once available

In reply to a post by craski:

I think it is fibre related and does look like the fibre infrastructure recently installed around my area. If you zoom into the image, note the yellow sticker on top, that looks like a laser/light source warning triangle which on a telegraph pole suggests it is fibre.

I might be wrong, but I don't think it is fibre related due to the cables have no yellow stripe on them.

Paul

Paul, this is a fibre CBT being installed.... no yellow stripe. As someone else said, I think it's a fibre splitter. I think it's the older tube that has the yellow stripe, and maybe trunk cables?

https://fibre.everestpark.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/...

To the Op (512uk), you said the fibre comes "to your house"... do you mean to the wall, or to the nearest pole? And how does it terminate?

CBT being connectorised block (new 'splice-free') fibre? This post seems to suggest it's a CBT node as well.

Yes there is clearly the optical warning triangle on the box.

To the poster who mentioned the CBT terminals on the pole, I did get a photo of these on the same pole: terminals/connector?

There are also yellow ID labels on each of the three fibre 'feeds' which would suggest to me that each of these could be used for individual properties?

It doesn't come to my house, copper does. But it essentially goes straight past, albeit along the bottom of the valley which is at the bottom of my garden. It's a rural area on a steep valley side so tricky to see the exact infrastructure, but the nearest pole where my copper goes would be about 50 metres away. I'm sure all this infrastructure (as pictured) goes past on these poles. The photos linked are taken further outwards along the valley and away from the hamlet.

If you travel down the road back towards the hamlet, there is a green pole-mounted box which is a fibre splitter/ag node at the end of the lane. I assume this must provide fibre to the numerous properties, including mine, up the lane.

Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Aug-18 23:40:51)

They can't just break in to fibre as it passes your property.
You would be fed from the nearest fibre DP.
If there isn't 1 near you then fibre would need routed to you from the nearest splitter node, and a fibre DP installed on a nearby pole.

How far away is the nearest pole with the connectorised DP you pictured?

Do you have access to FTTC? If so what are the estimates?

No I appreciate that.

The connectorised DP pole is about 150 m away from the property.

FTTC isn't available (due to distance I'd imagine). Current ADSL is about 3mbps and 400k upload, and highly unstable.

We have these in our village for BDUK funded FTTP.

Its a fibre splitter. The 3 leads with labels are probably 1 input and 2 output fibres. The outputs probably go to the connectorised block terminals which are on other poles (may have one at the top of your pole). That's what happens in my village. Picture of our splitter.

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/357/8rKPpt.jpg

The connectorised block terminals are at the tops of the poles and are rectangular with round covered ports on. In my village these are 8 and 4 port.

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/266/CGhwl0.jpg


What you mentioned as may be connectors are actually strain reliefs for the overhead fibre. They wrap round these.

https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3889/WmlVHZ.jpg

Edited by sidef (Fri 03-Aug-18 14:26:29)

FTTP passes lots and lots of premises in Wales and while it serves a lot every one of those served has properties nearby without it.

The BDUK phase 1 project ended in December 2017, and successor contracts are in procurement so unless you want to pay via the Community Fibre scheme to get your DP enabled you are effectively just waiting for the projects to restart, which may be via Openreach, or could be a new firm using different infrastructure.

As pointed out none of the kit on your pole is the final drop DP connector, the pictures at the bottom of the page at https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guides/fibre-fttc-ftt... show what the connectorised DP looks like. They vary in size in terms of the number of connectors, and if someone is live you will see a drop fibre plugged in.

Not good news, but reality is that unless someone else pays for it, you are not getting FTTP

Thanks for the replies. Disappointing to note.

I don't think a community program would be possible; my nearest neighbour (100m away) can get FTTP!

I mentioned to the BT complaints guy that I am amenable to having a sensible conversation to explore the costs of connecting just me (akin to FTTPoD or ECCs). Hopefully that's a possibile avenue we can explore when I next get an update from him.

That route for you would be Community Fibre though a community of 1.

If you are talking to BT, then its BT Consumer and the decision and costing for all this is via Openreach and Community Fibre is their path.

A very very slim chance, that a DP was planned for your pole but project finished before it was done, but very very slim, the areas where this was the case have been pretty much completed after an interim agreement with the Welsh Assembly.

If you are happy to share you address details with me via email [email protected] I can pass them onto Openreach and see if they can check situation and get a ball park price to get you connected.

Thanks Andrew, email sent.

In reply to a post by sidef:

Its a fibre splitter..... Picture of our splitter.
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/357/8rKPpt.jpg

The connectorised block terminals.....
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/266/CGhwl0.jpg


....are actually strain reliefs for the overhead fibre....
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3889/WmlVHZ.jpg

Great clear photos and descriptions, thanks.... for all the questions about what's this, what's that, I wonder if there could be a reference page sticky on the forum (with links to any relevant TBB pages too), to be referred to and where necessary updated?

In reply to a post by olicuk:

In reply to a post by sidef:

Its a fibre splitter..... Picture of our splitter.
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/357/8rKPpt.jpg

The connectorised block terminals.....
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/266/CGhwl0.jpg


....are actually strain reliefs for the overhead fibre....
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3889/WmlVHZ.jpg

Great clear photos and descriptions, thanks.... for all the questions about what's this, what's that, I wonder if there could be a reference page sticky on the forum (with links to any relevant TBB pages too), to be referred to and where necessary updated?

The first image I have never seen so I cannot comment on, the second image is the new conectorized block and the third image looks like two tension blocks.

Paul

An update. Had a call back from BT exec complaints to confirm the address DB was wrong all along. FTTP is and never was available for order, for me.

I had offered to fund the cost of expansion of the network from FTTP enabled neighbour down the road but got a big fat 'no'. The only alternative from the complaints guy was of course a leased line solution, but I can't imagine a PoP being anywhere near by.

I feel they are very keen to close this as the end of the road for me, but it's infuriating.

Perhaps hard or not going to help if the database is wrong, but have you tried looking up both your and a number of neighbours properties on both sides (appreciate they are no doubt some distance away in rural mid-Wales!)? And then plotting those results on the map to see whom can really get it, and where the trail runs cold? Of course, looking at the "news", it could be another of these many unfinished installs across Wales, where some vital but impossible to spot component is missing. If would help to know/see more of the infrastructure you've commented on on the pole you say is 150m away from your property too... and how you can trace the lines from there.... is that say on a trunk along the valley, and from it there are 3 or 4 poles coming the 150m direct to your house?

The more data you have, the more chance you may have to convince someone to take this further.

What do Superfast Cymru (https://beta.gov.wales/go-superfast/) also say about your property? And have you "contacted them" as per here: https://beta.gov.wales/go-superfast/contact-us

In Hampshire the local team seem to respond to residents via Twitter/email with particular address enquiries, which should at least advise you if they think they've paid Openreach to deliver a service to you, or not.

Also, as this was BT exec complaints, was that essentially BT Wholesale (nearer the Openreach end of things), rather than "consumer BT" whom you placed your order with? And does that terminate your order fully, or can you go back to consumer BT and explore there again? Or even place an order through another more customer-focussed ISP, if their systems still imply you can get FTTP?

Edited by deleted (Mon 06-Aug-18 14:51:03)

Thanks for your extensive reply.

As time goes on that is what I'm trying to do - build a picture of who can and can't get this connectivity. Early indication is that all properties in the hamlet can obtain FTTP, as well as my neighbour who is 200m closer to the hamlet down the lane. Other properties near mine or further out can't (there's probably about 10 who are stuck with ADSL).

With it being deep dark Wales, a lot of the properties have Welsh spellings and in many cases no sign identifying the properties at all. So looking them up is challenging. With more referring to OS maps and gaining more area knowledge (I've only lived here for 3 months), I will be able to look more up.

To me it seems quite clearly a question of difficulty and commercials: the more distance places have been ignored given the cost of upgrade. I can appreciate this, with a 95% roll out, someone has to be in the 5%!

The mystery in all of this is the fibre at the bottom of the valley that just sails past my house and two other neighbours. I'm still trying to figure out where this goes or what its for. At first thoughts you'd think it'd be for another node or the next village along. But the size of the fibre looks small (same thickness as the leased line at work which is just 2 tails), which leads me to think that this must just go to properties rather than other nodes or infrastructure. And these are at the end of the no-thru road lane. There's only two more properties. The geography makes it difficult to see much more.

When I get a min I will draw a sketch of the infrastructure.

I am in talks with the Welsh Assembly as they've been very helpful sorting out business broadband issues from years ago, so will explore the Superfast Cymru route.

The exec complaint was lodged through the Welsh Assembly. I am assuming its on the consumer side. AFAIK the order was fully terminated over a week ago when Openreach cancelled it. BT have pretty much nailed it down so there's nothing left to go back to them on - all things I had asked they have come back with 'no', apart from saying I should look at Leased Lines and they'll get a Leased Line person to call me.

All the online DSL checkers, OR "when and where" sites have since been updated to show I am not FTTP capable. But I have considered other ISPs might be more helpful, so I have lodged enquiries with Spectrum.

Assuming the properties share a postcode... or you can identify the collection of local postcodes... if you visit http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.address and just enter the postcode(s), you get back a list of the properties BT Wholesale have registered. Can help you map/address quest.


Looking at pole mounted fibre from the ground, I'd expect it to be hard to see how many fibres it actually contains... I'm used to fibre, but I was struck by how small this fibre serving an 8-port DP was compared to the copper cables already in the chamber. And the fact that a splitter can serve 32 or more premises, you don't need a lot to go far. In that area I'm sure any "trunk" deployed will serve the full route, even if not all premises are yet served.


Noting the geography you describe it'd be interesting how Openreach got there... or if any of your neighbours saw and spoke to them when they did. I'm assuming from the description the poles don't run down the lane/road/track serving the properties concerned? Also if you've spoken to any neighbours about whether they want or tried ordering FTTP themselves? Do the checkers still show it available for them, or has it been removed from all beyond the a certain point?

Will be good to see the sketch, though for you trying to find anyone in Openreach to have a meaningful conversation about it will no doubt be a challenge! And if there is just one jigsaw piece missing, the fact only those with FTTC can order FTTPoD means trying the "community of 1" route that I think has been suggested may be your only practical route forwards

Assuming the properties share a postcode... or you can identify the collection of local postcodes... if you visit http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.address and just enter the postcode(s), you get back a list of the properties BT Wholesale have registered. Can help you map/address quest.

Yes I've been doing that already, but thanks for sharing.

Looking at pole mounted fibre from the ground, I'd expect it to be hard to see how many fibres it actually contains... I'm used to fibre, but I was struck by how small this fibre serving an 8-port DP was compared to the copper cables already in the chamber. And the fact that a splitter can serve 32 or more premises, you don't need a lot to go far. In that area I'm sure any "trunk" deployed will serve the full route, even if not all premises are yet served.

Very interesting to note! May have a walk down the lane tonight and see if I can identify where these cables are going.
On another note, in that photo you linked, what is the black gland type thing? You see them everywhere on poles round here. Are they splitters/nodes?

Noting the geography you describe it'd be interesting how Openreach got there... or if any of your neighbours saw and spoke to them when they did. I'm assuming from the description the poles don't run down the lane/road/track serving the properties concerned? Also if you've spoken to any neighbours about whether they want or tried ordering FTTP themselves? Do the checkers still show it available for them, or has it been removed from all beyond the a certain point?

A picture will paint a thousand words but from what I can see the poles run from the road at the bottom of the lane and then go off through fields/trees nearer the stream at the bottom of the valley than the roads either side. There are a few properties in the valley that the poles go past. These are the ones that AFACS cannot get FTTP.

I'm sure in time I'll find out more from speaking with other neighbours. Judging from markings on the poles all this work seemed to happen around May 2017.

Will be good to see the sketch, though for you trying to find anyone in Openreach to have a meaningful conversation about it will no doubt be a challenge! And if there is just one jigsaw piece missing, the fact only those with FTTC can order FTTPoD means trying the "community of 1" route that I think has been suggested may be your only practical route forwards

Yep, I am just waiting on Mr Saffron for that, I think this is what he was kindly going to explore for me.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

An update. Had a call back from BT exec complaints to confirm the address DB was wrong all along. FTTP is and never was available for order, for me.

I had offered to fund the cost of expansion of the network from FTTP enabled neighbour down the road but got a big fat 'no'. The only alternative from the complaints guy was of course a leased line solution, but I can't imagine a PoP being anywhere near by.

I feel they are very keen to close this as the end of the road for me, but it's infuriating.

It sound very much like they have got so far up your rural road, with all the properties before yours being able to order FTTP.
Then from your property and beyond none of you can order FTTP.

This is very common, particularly in rural parts of Wales where there has been lots of Welsh government funded FTTP.
Andrew (MrSaffron) has wrote quite a bit about the Welsh program ending mid-way through lots of projects with many areas being left part finished.
They have done lots of last minute running about making agreements with OpenReach to finish as many areas as possible but I'm sure the work is completely finished now.
There's not much hope of convincing anyone to reopen closed projects.

That sounds like the end of native WBC-FTTP for you.
You're absolutely spot on in how you summed it up, on a 95% coverage rollout there's always going to be a few who are missed.

If FTTPod doesn't show as available to you (it requires you to be connected to an FTTC cabinet even if too far away to order it) then OpenReach CFP may be your only option for now.
It would be worth looking into of you were willing to fund them extending FTTP to you.
It sounds like much like the infrastructure is already nearby.
Would any of your neighbours further up the road be interested in contributing to this?

You may well be covered in the next round of funding but I have no idea when that is.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 06-Aug-18 17:27:47)

Fate of next set of Welsh contracts due in Autumn apparently

They are not lightning speed at responding and my money is on what you've said in thread, i.e. its pay for it all yourself or wait on Welsh Assembly. Suspect they have stopped at one DP and you would have been the next one if the project had kept going.

Fibre cables can fit 44 fibres into a cable almost the same size as the small ones that feed the DP, the use of Kevlar to give strength has helped reduce cable size, especially if you compare with blown fibre tubing.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Very interesting to note! May have a walk down the lane tonight and see if I can identify where these cables are going.
On another note, in that photo you linked, what is the black gland type thing? You see them everywhere on poles round here. Are they splitters/nodes?

From that linked picture of a chamber and fibre reel: They are covers for copper cable joints. Nothing to do with fibre.

In reply to a post by sidef:

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Very interesting to note! May have a walk down the lane tonight and see if I can identify where these cables are going.
On another note, in that photo you linked, what is the black gland type thing? You see them everywhere on poles round here. Are they splitters/nodes?

From that linked picture of a chamber and fibre reel: They are covers for copper cable joints. Nothing to do with fibre.

Yes, that's the existing copper joint or DP in the chamber that they were adding the fibre DP (CBT - connectorised block terminal) to. The fibre DP was hidden in the middle of the (corrugated plastic) fibre reel when the photograph was taken.

An MC34 to be precise.

I'll look forward to it... fingers and toes crossed

I walked down to the end of the lane and found this, about 3 poles on from the other images of the splitter and strain relievers...

Image 1

Image 2

Is this one of the Connectorised Terminals?

I am working on a diagram to explain where all of this is

And here's the diagram... bear with me, it's not the best!

Diagram

In reply to a post by 512uk:

I walked down to the end of the lane and found this, about 3 poles on from the other images of the splitter and strain relievers...

Image 1

Image 2

Is this one of the Connectorised Terminals?

Looks like it to me.... this or rather its CommScope replacement (see 0:47s here).

https://www.commscope.com/solutions/multiport-servic...

Interesting then looking at your map... I presume you live in one of the properties shown as no FTTP available? And in the photo of the CBT, that it seems to be the end of the line for fibre, I presume the cable at the top of the pole is the copper line, and that continues onto one or more poles then splits to the two properties you mention (so it's not really the fibre splitting as per your annotation)?

What are roughly the distances and how many poles between the properties? And from the green cabinet on the pole by the main road, can you see how many separate fibre "cables" take the route up your valley? I presume there would be at least one more CBT serving the property with FTTP available... and the same or another CBT to serve the three properties in the middle. Have you got binoculars?!

It looks like the properties at the end, and you'd think therefore also the ones in the middle, should be able to get FTTP... but then with the obviously challenging environment, I guess you can't tell that there's a totally completed link up the valley to the CBT you can see. And where it splits to the other side of the valley, what does the DSLchecker say of these properties... can any of them get fibre?

The splitter seems to have one in, 2 out, so therefore I'm guessing the "in" comes down the valley from the hamlet, and the 2 "outs" go to the CBT you've photographed, and across to the other side... therefore none return to the 3 properties so you'd need to look for more infrastructure downstream nearer the hamlet that could potentially supply these.

In an ideal world you'll be able to find someone in Openreach who can cross-check your map and their records and tell you really if there's a missing link (and any way to get that addressed), or if they just forgot to update everything to show the work as complete. Though I fear that's an impossible task with BDUK/payment implications... unless they've already claimed for them, they wouldn't want to add properties whilst out of contract if it prevents them claiming in due course - plus they'd no-doubt want a field survey to check everything, and have no funding to do that! So good luck!!

Yep, those are connectorised block terminals.

That they are fitted doesn�t necessarily mean they are �good to go� though, there may still be work required to get light from the splitter to the CBT.

I wish OR would grow some NAD's and stand up to the weak ass government.

Just sayin...

Thanks for the reply olicuk.

Yes I live in the top property in the group of three that FTTP is not available.

With the infrastructure going past my house below, I would like to see what's on the poles down there (but it's hidden and on private land). I have a feeling perhaps there may be further CBTs on poles to serve the three properties, as the distance for all of them will easily be less than 150m to the poles.

The two farms near the CBT photo I have both checked and neither are available for FTTP on DSL checker or OR website which would concur that infrastructure is still being built out, albeit the skeleton cabling is up.

Regarding the neighbour who can get FTTP, I have had a good look and can't see any CBT. But again, their fibre feed does go down into the valley. I'll have a walk and look!

I have had two further updates from BT complaints, who have now managed to speak to a Openreach infrastructure/project manager who is area based and rolling out in my area. They have confirmed they are building out infrastructure to serve my house and the ETA for being complete is approx September. Great news and just around the corner - this all does seem to concur with everything we have been discussing. I just need to sit tight now keeping fingers crossed.

Seems perhaps a little bit strange that BDUK happened 12 months ago and this final bit is still being done. None of this shows on the 'when and where' OR web page.

I did go through all properties on the DSL checker in the hamlet and count up who can get what. Out of 79 properties, 47% of these currently can obtain FTTP. 18% FTTPoD and remaining 35% are stuck with copper.

That's good news that they're apparently actively working on it, and you're not stuck in limbo between Welsh Assembly BDUK contracts. It would have been better still if you heard it direct from Openreach so you know it isn't just a delaying tactic, but I guess you'll have to just wait it out.... and keep an eye out for Openreach vans!

Maybe it just falls into place with the start of the thread, where for your original NAD issue whichunt suggested they need to reallocate your FTTP to a different DP... maybe your copper one is too far away or too inaccessible and so they'll route you from another or are placing a fibre one where there wasn't a copper one. I guess the data from your other thread tells you where your copper DP and those of your neighbours with and without the ability to get fibre currently are?

Yeah my biggest fear was being left in post-BDUK limbo due to funding drying up.

It could well be what they originally said (let's hope!). Although I kind of think it was something to do with the address, as my address tends to have two names (both Welsh). One of the names hasn't been used for a long while but was on an old post office file that the solicitors picked up on it when we were purchasing. The BT/OR database has this listed with a UPRN next to it, with no NAD key. The UPRN is sequential with neighbouring properties so must be accurate. When you check this address it comes up as nothing available, which makes sense as it isn't used. The other name is the same but has "uchaf" on the end (Welsh for upper), and is the name in use. If you check this one, it has no UPRN, but does have a NAD key. But this returns data on ADSL being available etc. This is the one on my BT bill.

My DP number I've found out is the same as the two houses "next door" (just down in the valley). No other properties share the DP. Makes sense as my copper line goes straight down, through trees, toward the two houses. I can't see any poles or anything, as the trees are so thick this time of year. I am sure that if FTTP is going to be deployed to all three houses, it'll be down there by them somewhere on or near the current copper DP. Again, none of the three properties sharing this DP show as FTTP being available.

Although my sketch shows the red line going up the valley, I had a drone flight above the valley and couldn't see any poles connecting our three houses/DP area to the next properties down closer to the hamlet and where the other neighbour can get FTTP. I'm assuming there must be ducting, unless the poles take an unusual route through trees.

OR engineer came to work to upgrade the line here so got talking. Really really great guy, more than happy to discuss and help. Explained the situation and he was aware of the area and said there is still work going on. He said OR subbed out the area to contractors and had a lot of issues last year with work not being sorted to the required level.

Some useful info gleamed...

He said a 12 port CBT being rolled out is standard now in rural Wales, as the capacity future proofs an area even if there are nowhere near 12 properties to serve.

Said generally CBT to property distance limit is around 400-500m as far as he's aware although there are "other options" to connect a property. Told him about the splitter node closer to the house and he said the connection could easily be taken off there.

He also mentioned the NAD key thing, said the NAD key is an allocation of fibre and some places this needed rerouting because of subcontractor errors, so the order being cancelled with the NAD needing rerouting would make sense.

Fingers crossed I can order in the next couple months!

DSL Checker this morning showed FTTP now available again, so work must be complete. Only yesterday saw some Openreach vans working on the lane.

So order placed again this morning. This time it's showing as a 1 stage install with no anticipated issues. Assume this means it's coming from a CBT. Engineer appt booked Friday 7th - fingers crossed!

In reply to a post by 512uk:

DSL Checker this morning showed FTTP now available again, so work must be complete. Only yesterday saw some Openreach vans working on the lane.

So order placed again this morning. This time it's showing as a 1 stage install with no anticipated issues. Assume this means it's coming from a CBT. Engineer appt booked Friday 7th - fingers crossed!

I hope it all goes well.
Our install was a 2 stage install, a day or two apart.

According to BT who phoned us when the first stage was being done.

They told me that they had several engineers in our area doing installs and asked us if we wanted the engineers to do our second stage right after the first stage was completed.

But where it was originally down for a day or two apart we left it at that.

Paul

Your install was legacy FTTP, the OP�s is connectorised Paul.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Your install was legacy FTTP, the OP�s is connectorised Paul.

Yeah I know.

I was just saying a 2 stage install can also be done on the same day.

Paul

On a slightly different note,

was in Falmouth today, the copper DP serving the property I was visiting had a manifold (with at least 6 BFT�s to it) AND an 8 port CBT, with none connected ...... madness really.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

On a slightly different note,

was in Falmouth today, the copper DP serving the property I was visiting had a manifold (with at least 6 BFT�s to it) AND an 8 port CBT, with none connected ...... madness really.

Prob due to the system says its not there, just like the system says the bottom part of my road don't have FTTP hardware, even though it is in the chambers and on the poles, I have even sent photos back, but still get told its not there lol

It does crack me up some times lol

Paul

Mine was a one stage install done over three separate days weeks apart. &#128516;

They tried to do the work the first time and failed.

Months later a coil of fibre suddenly appeared outside my door, the other end going down into the ground.

Then a few weeks later they finished the job.

Oh mine had issues and then being fobbed off with stupid excuses, so I made a complaint to the CEO and Chairman's Office.

Then BT jumped through hoops to get it resolved as quick as possible, hence the day or two between stages (normally a week between them) was booked.

And then the phone call offering to do both the same day.

Paul

The potential issue for install of mine is the extremely steep bank /valley side that's covered in trees. This is where the current copper feed goes down at probably a 45-60deg angle from the house. The bank is completely impassable for anyone. A drone wouldn't even work as the trees are so thick this time of year.

So the only way I can see the install working is if they cut the copper at the bottom and pull up a connectorised fibre feed. Even this might be a bit tricky as the copper rests against a tree.

Is this a possibility? (I don't care about the copper anyway, can always get VoIP).

Glad you've made progress. It does sound like a challenge so I wonder how many visits it would take, but they'd equally need to service/replace the copper at some point and had to put the poles and line in, so they can't really say it's impossible. Costly perhaps if they need to get the trees cut first and use mountaineering-trained teams! I'm guessing it's possible to go up each pole with a ladder though... at least if the grass/weeds/scrub were cut back?

Whose land is it? Could you help them help you by strimming down the undergrowth?

That�s a pretty standard technique you describe, it�s called �cut and draw�

The overhead connectorised fibre cable has a copper pair joined alongside, so that will be reconnected anyway.

Good to know! Yes I may be able to strim some of the branches and trees away.

Just decided to walk down the bank following the copper to the edge of my perimeter/fence line. Quite challenging but not impossible. I doubt H&S conscious Openreach engineers will be keen for doing this though.

Once the copper goes through the trees it actually joins onto a power pole about 3/4 way up, and goes across from there about 10 metres to a BT DP. On that DP there's a splitter node and CBT, which I hadn't seen before! From there on it will continue down the lane to the CBT and kit I've mentioned and photographed before.

This DP and CBT is located on a shared access, gated driveway so there could be a wayleave issue for Openreach to get access on Friday.

Presumably they have agreed wayleave access already. How else did the splitter node and CBT get there, never mind the cables to it and its presence in the first place .

If the gateway is locked, is it possible they have an access method?

Here is the new DP:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/od2t3mj0f3cdh97/Photo%2001...

Very true! I didn�t know if they�d need way leave permission each time they needed access.

That's an Openreach telegraph pole that's probably had your copper DP on it for many many years. I wouldn't worry too much about them needing access.

That's good... hopefully not too bad for Friday then... let us know how they get on!

Tomorrow is the day... wish me luck! I've had no cancellation or bad updates at all this time so all looking good.

I'll be waiting for a knock on the door between 8am and 1pm.

I'll keep you posted.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Tomorrow is the day... wish me luck! I've had no cancellation or bad updates at all this time so all looking good.

I'll be waiting for a knock on the door between 8am and 1pm.

I'll keep you posted.

Good luck, hopefully they are installing it now.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Fri 07-Sep-18 08:21:26)

I'm not so sure they will be.
It sounds like a bit of a challenging drop so I'd be surprised if "Bob" turns up and attempts this on his own on day 1.

You never know though, they might know what they are facing and turn up with 4 bodies, a cherry picker and a pulley.
That's not usual OpenReach though.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 07-Sep-18 11:45:46)

Have a little faith

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I'm not so sure they will be.
It sounds like a bit of a challenging drop so I'd be surprised if "Bob" turns up and attempts this on his own on day 1.

You never know though, they might know what they are facing and turn up with 4 bodies, a cherry picker and a pulley.
That's not usual OpenReach though.

We had 5 guys turn up when ours was installed (1st stage - external work), one guy I know was a trainee and they did a great job with the compressor blowing the fibre down, the 3 other engineers was there just watching and chatting, sure the OP install wont be done that way but the enginners are everywhere, well they are in our area lol.

Paul

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Have a little faith

Agreed, I am sure it will all be fine and the OP is doing loads of speed tests to ease in the new connection lol

Paul

So they came! Didn't leave til about half 5... But it's still not working, yet.

Great guys, did a cut and draw of hybrid copper and fibre, which went well.

Had a lot of issues terminating the fibre - the "light test" was showing high loss, so kept trying new connectors on the lead in. He had tested light straight off the CBT and it was 22db but on the lead in about 28db. In the end tried fitting a CSP outside and splicing to rule out the termination and that still had 28db loss. So all we've had is a flashing PON light.

He also spent some time speaking to some back office centre doing some tests - they said they aren't seeing any light back their end. Tried a new ONT, no joy, so think it's either a dodgy connector at the CBT end of the run, or bad batch of fibre somewhere. He did manage to make the PON light go on and off from the call centre end so the routing must be correct?

There was also some mention of the profile the line needs to be on or something due to the length of run to the exchange - some B+ and C / C+ was mentioned.

He is coming back tomorrow though with a new drum of pre-term fibre to cut and draw it again - fingers crossed.

Might be a bad joint at the splitter maybe, or the nearest joint.

Paul

But he got a good light testing directly from the CBT port?

So the only other potential area of fault would be the cable and termination from the CBT to the house

In reply to a post by 512uk:

But he got a good light testing directly from the CBT port?

So the only other potential area of fault would be the cable and termination from the CBT to the house

Oh sorry, I read that as also bad there too lol

Well I hope they sort it tomorrow.

Paul

Thanks

Oh well, good news and bad... but overall good that they should sort it tomorrow or soon, and getting the fibre to you not so challenging after all.

Will look out for the next instalment, better luck tomorrow!

Oh dear .....

To my mind they should be lowering the loss to the CBT, so a resplice of nodes back to the splitter .... it even be high there ?

If the new OH can provide -22db light loss reading to the ONT then that ought to do, but still a tad high.

I reckon there�s a micro-bend or a bum splice between the CBT and splitter.

Wish them luck.

They�re here now. Reran whole new drum. Connector fit and loss 22.6db so much better. Yesterday�s fibre must have been the problem.

No solid PON light yet though, so they are waiting for a phone call back to check the profile or settings on the fibre....

Dumb question I know, but have they activated/registered the ONT using its serial # ?

And it's on and working! Over the moon!

Great engineers, fair play for coming out on a Saturday and redoing it all.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7618343005.png

Keep the tea flowing, a reply from the DCoE FTTP bods on a Saturday is a long wait.

Tell �em not to feel too bad, they ain�t the only folk in on a rostered Saturday

I wondered that too.

Well done, glad you are rocking and rolling.

Haha. 15 minute wait from DCOE so not too bad. Coffee was on tap...

Result .....

There ought to be a way that one could test these reels prior to use, especially if putting it up is going to be troublesome. Give me BFT every time.

Congratulations. Great speed.

In reply to a post by olicuk:

Oh well, good news and bad... but overall good that they should sort it tomorrow or soon, and getting the fibre to you not so challenging after all.

Will look out for the next instalment, better luck tomorrow!

Agreed, just hope the OP doesn't get a Exception TAG put on their line / address.

TAG's are a pain in the rear to get removed, took about 3 weeks to get ours removed.
And installs cannot be installed until the TAG is removed, I had to keep on at BT every day for about 3 weeks to get it removed.

But I am sure it will be fine.

Paul

It�s in and working Paul .....

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It�s in and working Paul .....

You are absolutely right, some how I missed an whole tab of replies

Its all these long days lol

Paul