EE Broadband SNR Reset

I'm back again.

Since all the problems on my previous thread, I have contacted EE to ask what is going on and where we are with this ongoing fault.

The Fault Management Team told me to "wait 5 days until the SNR stabilises itself". Can anyone tell me what download issues I should expect during this time? ie; Slow speeds, Loss of Signal Etc.... ?
Or should I not really notice any difference?

Thanks

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

I'm back again.

Since all the problems on my previous thread, I have contacted EE to ask what is going on and where we are with this ongoing fault.

The Fault Management Team told me to "wait 5 days until the SNR stabilises itself". Can anyone tell me what download issues I should expect during this time? ie; Slow speeds, Loss of Signal Etc.... ?
Or should I not really notice any difference?

Thanks

In your previous thread we learned that a SFI would have the authority and ability to reset your DSL connection using various tools at his disposal. It is possible that a new stabilisation/training period began after the last engineer's visit and hence waiting 5 days for the SNRM to stabilize is quite feasible.

As before, during the initial 10 day stabilisation period, you will probably notice DSL drops and changes to SNRM's/sync speeds if the DSL connection was actually reset.

Of course the exchange kit will be continuously monitoring your line and making adjustments as and when necessary but it should never fall below a certain sync speed threshold after the stabilization period - if it does then the ISP is obliged to investigate.

Thanks for your reply 4M2.

I called them last night and asked if I was in re-train and they said no, but it may be a standard thing that's done anyway. I still can't stream films to a tablet, download a file and my D/L speed dropped to 0.02 while my Son was downloading a System Update (New Firmware) on his Playstation 3. That concerned me as it could of 'Bricked' his console. The throughput speed is becoming a bit of a concern I think.

Sorry to keep repeating myself, but when you get the new router/ADSL lead/micro filter hooked up to the test socket and if there is no improvement then we can perhaps pursue the matter further...

"Of course the exchange kit will be continuously monitoring your line and making adjustments as and when necessary but it should never fall below a certain sync speed threshold after the stabilization period

Care to explain more? There is nothng with WBC stopping a line going from 7000 Kbps sync to 200 Kbps sync, if the line deteriorates suddenly.

The 10 day stablisation period is again being bestowed with mystical powers, it is pretty simple, starts off at a certain target noise margin, and then if errors or loss of signals are bad the target margin can be increased, or if VERY stable it may be lowered. The very stable period is usually 14 days unless someone manually pushes a few buttons.

They probably just want to see if the line is all over the place or has settled down.

Nothing to do with any magical changes they have made I suspect.

I'm really hopeful that the router will resolve the fault, but I'm still not convinced the current router is the problem.

It's definitely all over the place. My other problem now is I have very little hair left to pull out!

All over the place, as in the modem stays connected and the SNR as displayed in the router is wandering around? In which case nothing to do with DLM but all to do with varying levels of noise in the local area.

If its that just after a resync your noise margin is 6dB, then 9dB, then 12dB within a few seconds after success resyncs then that would be DLM, but it should not be lower after a resync unless there have been a few days of stability. If this initial target is wandering, then suggests someone is manually pushing buttons to play with the line setup.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

"Of course the exchange kit will be continuously monitoring your line and making adjustments as and when necessary but it should never fall below a certain sync speed threshold after the stabilization period

Care to explain more? There is nothng with WBC stopping a line going from 7000 Kbps sync to 200 Kbps sync, if the line deteriorates suddenly.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm - sorry is 21CN WBC any different to that then?

I've had a few re-syncs lately and as soon as the connection is re-established, my NM are high and gradually come back down, but slowly rise again. I'm not 100% sure of figures as I'm struggling to keep one step ahead of what is happening. My landline is the very quiet after the two Engineer visits, but my broadband is very unpredictable still. EE want to rule out the router, and after a chat to a Fault Management Team Manager, he suspects "the fault is deeper set than they are assuming"

I'm sure they have come across this issue before and know full well how to deal with it, but for some reason they just won't send out an SFI Engineer. I just don't get it.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

I'm really hopeful that the router will resolve the fault, but I'm still not convinced the current router is the problem.

Nor me, but it will eliminate the possibility and your ISP is apparently sending a new one out since they also think it may be a possibility?

So that is not the DLM playing around, but the varying noise that is impacting on your performance.

reason for delay on SFI, is that it can cost you or the ISP a chunk of money if there is no real problem, other than your router is broke.

Yes WBC behaves differently, but most principles are the same.

The MSR is as Kitz says "There's been a lot of talk/hype about the MSR, but in day to day use it doesn't really do much as its main purpose is to set your Fault Threshold Rate."

where does it say there's a minimum sync speed ? (apart from the 160k bottom stop).

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Yes WBC behaves differently, but most principles are the same.

The MSR is as Kitz says "There's been a lot of talk/hype about the MSR, but in day to day use it doesn't really do much as its main purpose is to set your Fault Threshold Rate."

But you didn't quite quote me in full when I inferred, as Kitz does:

"Fault Threshold Rate.

Once your MSR has been set, BTw use this figure to calculate your Fault Threshold Rate which is in the region of 70% of your MSR. BTw will only investigate speed related faults if your speed drops to below the Fault Threshold Level."

In reply to a post by yarwell:

where does it say there's a minimum sync speed ? (apart from the 160k bottom stop).

As I said to Mr Saffron and quoted from Kitz:

"Fault Threshold Rate.

Once your MSR has been set, BTw use this figure to calculate your Fault Threshold Rate which is in the region of 70% of your MSR. BTw will only investigate speed related faults if your speed drops to below the Fault Threshold Level."

And I was refering to an investigation initiated by the ISP if that happened - perhaps the ISP is not obligated to do so though?

A very different statement compared to what you said in my opinion

Is the variation in noise something that can be sorted relatively quickly and easily? I'm just convinced that there is something that can be done to limit these problems while I wait for the replacement router. Although I was assured by EE last night that by Wednesday afternoon (10th of April) my Broadband issue will be resolved and stable with no more problems. They are referring to the SNR reset and taking the router out of the diagnostics as the advisor didn't see anything in my notes regarding a replacement router - so I was on the understanding that EE Fault Team have not ordered the router as they seem to know what the problem is. Every time I speak to them or they speak to me, I come away more confused with even more questions.

And you made no mention of the FTR in the original post either.

FTR is so useless and often ignored or abused by ISP and/or BT Wholesale that it is useless worrying about it.

Put it this way, your post implied it would limit the sync speed to stop it dropping and IT DOES NOT DO THAT AT ALL.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

And you made no mention of the FTR in the original post either.

FTR is so useless and often ignored or abused by ISP and/or BT Wholesale that it is useless worrying about it.

Put it this way, your post implied it would limit the sync speed to stop it dropping and IT DOES NOT DO THAT AT ALL.

Apologises for falsely implying a limited sync speed, but I thought simply using the word "threshold" would be sufficient in my reply to the OP.

I understood exactly what you were saying 4M2 and thank you

I just have concerns regarding my speeds dropping to below 0.1 and the ongoing re-syncs at all different times of the day. I just can't seem to find anyone at EE to talk to that has a very clear idea of what they intend to do - or what they have actually done. I'm off to read their Terms and Conditions. See if that gets me anywhere.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

I just have concerns regarding my speeds dropping to below 0.1 and the ongoing re-syncs at all different times of the day. I just can't seem to find anyone at EE to talk to that has a very clear idea of what they intend to do - or what they have actually done. I'm off to read their Terms and Conditions. See if that gets me anywhere.

Good luck

First step is

1. Increase the target noise margin, thus slowing the broadband down and making it more immune to the noise
2. If that does not work an SFI might be able (note MIGHT) be able to identify the noise source and advise you to turn off device or move it.
3. If the device is in another property then all you can do is ask nicely.
4. The problem could also just be a dodgy joint that results in more noise being picked up

Many things it can be, and a lot of guesswork is involved.

And it won't get you anywhere, as this is a consumer service with no strongly defined service agreement. Just a few words suggesting they will take reasonable care to resolve faults.

If your problem is noise external to the BT network, then they are at liberty to throw their hands up and so take the service or you can leave.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

And it won't get you anywhere, as this is a consumer service with no strongly defined service agreement. Just a few words suggesting they will take reasonable care to resolve faults.

If your problem is noise external to the BT network, then they are at liberty to throw their hands up and so take the service or you can leave.

I only wished the OP good luck - cheers boss

I was just saying no point reading the T&C

In reply to a post by 4M2:

"Fault Threshold Rate.

Once your MSR has been set, BTw use this figure to calculate your Fault Threshold Rate which is in the region of 70% of your MSR. BTw will only investigate speed related faults if your speed drops to below the Fault Threshold Level."

And I was refering to an investigation initiated by the ISP if that happened - perhaps the ISP is not obligated to do so though?

Don't forget the FTR applies to the sync speed not to the throughput, and the low sync needs to be consistent through re-sync's over a period.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

... my D/L speed dropped to 0.02 while my Son was downloading a System Update (New Firmware) on his Playstation 3.

Do you mean his download slowed to that, or yours did while his was OK?

Sorry, I should of made that post a bit clearer.

As is the 'norm' now, before we download anything we do a speed test to make sure we are good to go.
A speedtest prior to downloading the new firmware was showing 11.3 D/L so he went ahead and clicked the instal button. Within a few seconds of doing so, the progress bar had stopped so my Son ran a speed test and the D/L was at 0.02 and stayed like this for ages. The only thing connected to and using the Internet at the time was his Playstation and his laptop that was on sleep while the Firmware was being installed. I did also mention on the old thread that when I'm on Interleaved, even loading my Xbox dashboard will give the exact same problem - and it can't even sign my profile in to Xbox Live. There seems to be a reall problem going on here.

Which points towards there being a big burst of errors on the line. Hence why its not so much the speed test that is important, but your line stats and those error counters.

Each error means it takes more bandwidth to get the useful bit of data to you, and so you could be wasting lots of bandwidth handling errors.

I wish you worked for EE, we would of had this sorted by now.

This is the stats after the last re-sync just short of 20 hours ago.
Don't know if there is anything in the stats that look a bit 'iffy'?

Also the router was last cleared of errors about 23.30 on Saturday 6th.


ADSL STATUS

This page shows information about your ADSL connection if applicable.

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1252 (Kbps.)
Downstream 15503 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.0 dB 6.7 dB
Line Attenuation 17.7 dB 32.5 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 95473137 427
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 279327 107
Loss of Signal Defect 17 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 2391704 139
Error Seconds 13725 103
Statistics
Received Cells 12514759
Transmitted Cells 11017422

Edited by deleted (Tue 09-Apr-13 17:42:02)

30 million packets that interleaving corrected due to errors, high.
17 loss of signal - higher than average.
13700 errored seconds, or around every 18 seconds you get a second when router is logging an error.

Personally I'd expect you to be on a 9dB target margin to reduce the load on the line and probably reduce number of errors.

That would probably lower your sync to 14 Meg, but might improve stability

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Personally I'd expect you to be on a 9dB target margin to reduce the load on the line and probably reduce number of errors.

That would probably lower your sync to 14 Meg, but might improve stability

Please check the OP's other thread http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/f/4226118-d... on 07-04-13 a ~9dB SNRM didn't really help with the error rates after being connected for approx 8 hours:

Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Upstream 1248 (Kbps.)
Downstream 14702 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 5.8 dB 8.2 dB
Line Attenuation 17.7 dB 32.5 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 1879839 11
Interleaved Path CRC Error 1598 1
Loss of Signal Defect 6 0
Interleaved Path HEC Error 9008 1
Error Seconds 1225 1
Statistics
Received Cells 1949614
Transmitted Cells 295561

In which case it might need a 12 or 15dB margin.

Thanks for your post and the breakdown on the errors. I've just had a re-sync now as I was on the phone to EE and the NM is still at 6bB.

Router is on its way - so I'm hoping we can rule this out soon
Thanks again.

I think he had that when quoting stats in the opening post in the other thread:

Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 691 (Kbps.)
Downstream 9727 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 14.9 dB 16.3 dB
Line Attenuation 17.6 dB 33.0 dB

Thank you for finding these stats and for your help. It's appreciated

So what was the problem when you had the sync speed of around 9.7Meg, by running faster now it will certainly not help.

You appear to have a noise issue, and by running at higher sync speeds it is more evident. Reason for the noise issue is unknown.

If the line was performing as expected for a 9.7Meg sync like you had originally, then Orange are within rights to return you to that setting and say it works. There is no requirement for them to provide a certain speed on a certain length of line.

If the line was resyncing a lot with the 15dB margin, then a SFI visit to try and figure out the noise source, be it an issue with the copper line, your wiring, or an electrically noise device nearby is probably the way to go.

Allow me to introduce you to another EE user on a similar connection who is also suffering from high error rates: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve/f/4223506...

Thanks for the link XraySpeX. I'm looking forward to how EE manage, deal with and resolve these similar issues. Since 22.30 yesterday evening (Tuesday) I have had 12 re-syncs so far and it's 01.20am.

I'm expecting this to continue throughout the early hours, and am really hoping my SNR reset coming to an end is something to do with it

I will take a good look at the other thread shortly and see how far along the 'long and winding' EE road they are. Hopefully near the end of it!

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

my SNR reset coming to an end

There is no such thing as the "end of a SNRM reset". It is an instananeous action on part of ISP to either constrain yr Target NM or free it.

You seem to have a noise issue in your locality. There is nowt ISP can or will do to fix it other than increase Target NM purely in hope.

You can run speedtests and time yr sons downloads til you are blue in the face. They are just symptoms of yr problem. It is the error rates that are slowing u down. You need to start monitoring these accurately against the time u last rebooted router. Concentrate on ES as being a summary of all errors. Once you have errors under control everything else will take care of itself

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 10-Apr-13 04:22:58)

It's incredible that the OP's router could hold a downstream sync of ~15Mbps with a SNRM of ~6dB for a day or so, yet downloads could begin at a reasonable ~11Mbps and reduce to a few hundred Kbps very quickly - would the error rates alone be responsible for that? It just seems that the router was holding the connection despite the errors but throughput was somehow really getting hammered...

However it does appear now that the DSL is dropping quite frequently

Potentially yes, as the errors cascade

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Potentially yes, as the errors cascade

So perhaps one could monitor that by say downloading a 100MB file and using a suitable tool to log the cascade of errors during the download?

However doesn't a burst of error seconds, rather than a steady rate, often result in a DSL drop - or am I incorrect in that assumption or over simplifying that scenario?

Whether a modem drops sync varies from device to device and firmware to firmware.

The modem decides for download traffic, and some hang in there in the face of lots of errors to avoid the connection dropping for a minute during resync. Some if the connection is ideal tolerate negative noise margins even.

But yes lots of errors usually leads to a resync, but have seen some modems that hang on in there, and everything gets better once transient noise vanishes.

Remember a noise burst might be just 5 seconds long (or a lot shorter) and resyncing on all of them could result in no connection.

Is it always the modem that drops sync or is it the exchange kit or could it be either?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Is it always the modem that drops sync or is it the exchange kit or could it be either?

Perhaps if the exchange kit can not "see" the modem due to the "fog" of noise then I guess the DSL connection would be lost even though the modem can just about "see" the exchange kit and would not drop the DSL?

Trying to use as simple terms as possible

Downstream usually the modem, upstream usually the exchange.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Downstream usually the modem, upstream usually the exchange.

That's interesting because differing routers will often report local/remote errors or Near End Indicator/Far End Indicator errors which I always find confusing.

There is an exchange on information between both ends, so scope for a modem to decide to give up and resync.

Without access to the logic for the firmware you cannot be sure, there are guidelines, but implementations vary from firmware to firmware, often tweaked for specific country deployments.

Thanks for the info Andrew

you cant brick an PS3 in that way as it has to download the update before it checks the update (once download gets to 60% its complected the download the other 40% is checking the update), once its at the installing stage Unplugging the power from the PS3 would very likely soft brick it (you have to reset the PS3 to defaults by using the Hold the power button option and picking factory restore or reset)

i would give the line 5-10 days to stabilize but really it should do that in the first 1-2 days but it can take 10 days to happen its annoying but that is how orange seem to do it

The firmware update became stuck at 4% of the download. It took ages to recover and compete the download. Ok... So it 'may' not brick the console, but to be fair I currently have an Internet connection that is fine for light surfing use and nothing else. I've been waiting since the end of February to get this issue resolved. Most of the post on here relate to what EE's Fault Management Team tell me after our usual long chats on the phone. It's a bit poor when you can't even stream a film to an iPad with a download speed of 15.8. Anyway, my replacement router arrived, has been plugged in and rebooted and still no change. After another escalation to the fault management team ther is a good chance I will be released from my contract and free to go elsewhere. So I'm now holding on to this option as a possibility my Interleaved corrections went from 41,000 to over 3million just trying to load an Xbox dashboard - and signing in to a profile isn't possible. I mention the Interleaved corrections as this is what EE Faults are concentrating on. Why? I have no IDE, but I suspect it's a process of elimination more than a solution to a problem.

Post deleted by XRaySpeX

High rate of FEC's on your current interleaved connection is probably just a symptom of the difficulty with which data can be exchanged due to noise interference - others will hopefully comment on that summary or refute it though.

New router + no improvement = SFI visit. No SFI = walk away without penalty and a MAC key. The problem may still be with you if you go to another ISP but at least they may be more willing to act promptly...

I'm trying to work out why EE can't seem to work out what is wrong. Although while I was on the phone to them about 2 hours ago, they ran a line test and said they "Might of found a couple of errors" so thats a start.

When I was with Sky, and in particular Sky Talk, I noticed that their Landline was different to BT. With BT if you dial a number and I rigs instantly. With Sky there was always a delay before you would hear the ringing. Could this be anything to do with the fact that while I was with Sky for BB and Landline, I never really had any problems ?
7years with Sky and never once had a problem with re syncing. I don't know if they use anything different to EE or it was just pure luck. I only left Sky due to over subscription which reduced speeds.

Well Sky was perhaps full LLU ADSL2+ (?) which is something we may have established in your other thread. EE use different exchange kit, i.e. 21CN WBC, and your current problems may stem from that but until your line is checked, IMO, by a OR SFI we can, perhaps, not be sure.

The WBC 21CN kit is used by millions of broadband customers, so not likely to be a problem with that.

There may be a poor joint in the exchange, or in the mile or two of wiring to the home, or even in the home.

As we have said

If you have done all you can to eliminate your own wiring, and now you've tried a new router. Then next step is an engineer to attend and do some testing, and hopefully one with some actual ADSL knowledge.

In the mean time any sensible ISP would have asked if you don't mind them slowing you down to try and make the connection at least perform a little better, i.e. return you to the speeds you had at the start of this.

I recall establishing something about Sky, but I honestly can't remember what and I probably managed to get lost somewhere along the way. I know what I'm like

According to EE earlier, both OR Engineer visits were sent for a broadband fault and not a landline fault, so I'm not exactly sure where this leaves me now to be honest.
I will probably call them back a bit later as the "couple of faults" they found earlier will of been escalated to the fault management team and it saves me waiting up to 48 hours for them to call me

Since calling EE a while ago, the did a line test that reset the router and when it established a connection, it was just over 9dB I'm currently on 4.4bB nearly 3 hours later. I just can't seem to get them to listen to me and I suspect that every time the exsisting fault is opened up under a new number, they are going through the same elimination process as before minus the OR Engineer visits. I hope that I am wrong though.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The WBC 21CN kit is used by millions of broadband customers, so not likely to be a problem with that.

There may be a poor joint in the exchange, or in the mile or two of wiring to the home, or even in the home.

Sure

But OP stated that things were fine with Sky and I was just considering the possibility of an issue at the exchange end. Although, obviously, a line fault may have developed anywhere coincidentally after the migration.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

...it was just over 9dB I'm currently on 4.4bB nearly 3 hours later

Do you mean that the downstream SNRM went from over 9dB to 4.4dB during almost 3 hours of a continuous DSL connection?

The NM was over 9dB and dropped to 4.4dB and I've just had two re syncs. 1st set it back to 9dB and the 2nd up to 16.1dB but a lot more stable at the moment. I'm expecting this to drop again and trigger a re sync.

All figures are Downstream and I'm now on
Operation Mode Automatic G992.1(G.DMT)

Edited by deleted (Wed 10-Apr-13 18:50:13)

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

when it established a connection, it was just over 9dB I'm currently on 4.4bB nearly 3 hours later.

That's the result of noise on line.

Remember, ISP and DLM only sets the Sync-time Target NM and has no truck with the NM's subsequent drifting during the connection session; that's entirely down to the variation in noise.

Is the noise likely to be in the higher BB frequency or will I hear it on a Quiet Line Test?
I'm unsure why I've been moved from ADSL2+ though. Unless its more stable

Depends on the type of noise. If line is quiet then no, an am radio may help identify if its something like a power supply close to the adsl modem

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

The NM was over 9dB and dropped to 4.4dB and I've just had two re syncs. 1st set it back to 9dB and the 2nd up to 16.1dB but a lot more stable at the moment. I'm expecting this to drop again and trigger a re sync.

All figures are Downstream and I'm now on
Operation Mode Automatic G992.1(G.DMT)

Deja vu - I think we've been here before...

Best of luck with the EE people if you call them later

Thanks for that.

I don't have an AM radio, but would an EMF meter work?

Not you need something that can pick up RF in the 40KHz to 2.2MHz band and is tuneable, as there are lots of AM radio stations in the band

Think I may need a lot of luck

I remember going here before and I think this was prior to the 2nd OR Engineer visit.
I think I will get the Fault Management Team to take a look at my old thread. They may even learn a thing or two

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

I think I will get the Fault Management Team to take a look at my old thread. They may even learn a thing or two

No comment LOL!

What will happen with regard the OP's IP Profile with all this switching between ADSL1 (8128K) and ADSL2+ (~15000K) - will the 21CN kit handle that automatically without any problems?

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 10-Apr-13 19:50:03)

Yes. I think on ADSL he will get the stepped profiling though, not the ADSL2+ 88.2%.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 10-Apr-13 20:59:05)

Users on 21CN WBC who are running in just ADSL mode still get the 88.2%

Yes, I think I was mixing it up with IPSC.

You are wasting your time talking on the phone to EE, either having to repeat yourself or being told diff things or whatever and getting even more confused.

There is nowt to lose, not even time, by writing a formal letter under their Complaints procedure, stating:

• It is evident that there is a BB fault on your line, probably excessive noise somewhere, proven by your high downstream error rates, frequent discons and re-syncs, large drifting of SNRM during a connection session. and low throughput.
• You are getting nowhere on phone with Fault Management Team who don't seem to know what they are doing.
• Insist on a SFI eng being sent to track the source of the fault.

I have found that this is the only way to get Orange to do anything constructive. They have even twice sent me OR engs when it was obvious they weren't necessary nor had the power to do anything in my case, but in yours they should be able.

Very impressed with that reply

Anyway, I've been put back onto ADSL2+ now, and the NM are dropping, I've had random LoS (7 so far) 3 phone calls from the fault management team, and am waiting for a call from 2nd Tier Fault Management. Interestingly, the guy from the fault management team told me "By escalating my fault to 2nd tier, my fault will be resolved quickly and fully" obviously I was astounded by this, and I asked it he was sure. He said "Of course I'm sure, every fault I've ever passed to them has been resolved." I said "it would of been extremely helpful if EE ;(Excuses Excuses) had done this 6 weeks ago!" We'll, that's the quickest I've ever heard a phone call cut off.
Lets see what tomorrow brings (today now)

And you believe every word still?

Beggers the Q does not 1st Tier FMT resolve faults?

See this ending in Tiers!

I like the "Ending in Tiers"

To be honest, I don't believe a thing they're saying. I'm thinking that this 2nd tier may well release me from contract, but I have taken your advice and wrote a letter of complaint that's almost ready to go.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

Excuses Excuses

Is that original, or did you find it elsewhere?

I have a feeling it could catch on .

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

To be honest, I don't believe a thing they're saying. I'm thinking that this 2nd tier may well release me from contract...

If some level of support or accounts say that they will release you from the contract please be sure to get written confirmation of that clearly stating that you will not be liable to any future payments other than any minimal balance due on account closure.

Also don't forget to request a MAC key.

Hopefully a SFI will sort out the line issues before that becomes necessary though

As you never had these issues with Sky BB and your physical line hasn't changed, then something must have gone wrong in moving you from Sky LLU kit to EE/BTw WBC kit at exchange. I believe there is a operation they can do called "Lift 'n Shift" that would move your line to another "port" at exchange that may not be faulty.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 13-Apr-13 01:31:28)

Thanks again all for your posts and advice

Right, I had a call from 'Customer Relations' (Can confirm that they are real) and they called me to say "We need to send an Engineer out to resolve this issue, is Monday Okay?" I said No, it's not Okay. She asked me why and I told her that if he's coming to 'test my line' I'm wasting my time, and they're wasting their money, but if its an SFI Engineer, Monday is fine. (I did explain the 2 Engineers have already been out) and she put me on hold and went off to find out. She came back and confirmed that it "will be an SFI Engineer and if the fault isn't fixed this time, they will give me a MAC Code and release me from my contract. The only bit of the conversation that I can't get my head around was although he is going to the exchange first, when he calls here after, I'm to ask him "What he has done, what he intends to do, and ask him to call EE to discuss what else they can do to resolve the fault." Considering they call them selves "One of the Biggest Telecommunications Companies" , I was surprised they have no real idea what they're doing next to resolve this Fault. Anyway, I'm going to spend a whole weekend with a lowering NM, a fair few signal losses. Suppose I should be used to it by now as its exactly 7 weeks today that the fault started

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

...She came back and confirmed that it "will be an SFI Engineer and if the fault isn't fixed this time, they will give me a MAC Code and release me from my contract. The only bit of the conversation that I can't get my head around was although he is going to the exchange first, when he calls here after, I'm to ask him "What he has done, what he intends to do, and ask him to call EE to discuss what else they can do to resolve the fault."

I had a SFI visit but he came to my house first, found that there was a line fault when he tested from the test socket, went to the cabinet and did some tests there and proceeded to the exchange where he eventually found and fixed the fault. The phone line was dead for 2 hours whilst he did the work. When he finished the work at the exchange my phone line was reconnected and he called me to say what he had done and was going to make a report that would eventually be seen by my ISP.

I guess things can be done differently to what I experienced though, especially perhaps if a difficult to access or underground line fault is discovered?

Edit: The problem for you is, however, that the ISP will issue a MAC key and release you from the contract if the issue can not be resolved - in other words they will "wash their hands" of you and your line fault. But I have every faith in the ability of SFI's to deal with line faults although it could potentially take some time to fix

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 12-Apr-13 23:35:24)

That looks as though someone with a brain at EE has looked into it and suspects a duff connection or line card at the exchange. Along the lines of what XRaySpeX has suggested is the problem.

EE may even have requested a "Lift and shift", which is completely remaking your connection at the exchange end, to a different port.

Let's hope that is it. Good luck .

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 12-Apr-13 23:22:19)

Yeah, looks like we are on the "Lift 'n Shift" route at last, or at least taking a shufti at the exchange connection

Well.... I'm feeling a bit stupid now as it seems my TV is wiping out my broadband. I'm in the process of moving it and seeing what happens. Apparently the Orange/EE Brightbox is a very good router, but its downside is Interference. Luckily the SFI Engineed had an RF meter and he has taken the Model number of the TV and is off to investigate further. I hope my TV isn't the cause of my neighbour being on 60meg download plan with Virgin, but only getting 3. This could get interesting

Is it a plasma tv?

Yes it's Plasma.
I've just moved the router away and tested it and the Downstream speed was fine. Put the router back where it was and the Downstream speed was fine. This isn't making any sense.

Do you know what the SFI will be doing about his findings with regard to the tv - is he coming back at some point?

If the tv was powered off, i.e. not even on standby, and you were still getting excessive error seconds recorded by the router then whole thing does seem a little odd.

He was going to chat with LG and his bosses about it as the reading from the RF Meter was very high while turned on and no interference while on stand by. I've been checking it and can't get the downstream to drop again, but my SNR Downstream has been set at 12dB but is moving a bit. I'm more confused now than ever. There are no faults at all back to the exchange, but it could be an issue with EE's BB gateway. Will a higher NM (12dB) reduce interference - or doesn't it work like that ?

How do the ES rates differ between TV ON, TV OFF & Standby?

Why could it be an issue with EE's BB gateway? Did eng say that?

A higher NM is more tolerant of noise; hence its name and what is interference but noise?

Perhaps pull the plug on the tele before bedtime tonight, reboot the router and check the stats before you power-on the tele tomorrow. Then we can see what the errors look like without any chance of the tele causing problems.

Don't know about the EE BB gateway causing DSL instability although it could affect throughput I guess...

A 12dB SNRM rather than a 3dB, 6dB or 9dB SNRM will give you a larger buffer (increased margin) against noise interference sufficient to cause the DSL to drop. A 12dB SNRM is basically painting over the problem as we discussed before.

I turned my TV on from stand by and his RF Meter picked up interference from the TV and also back to the extension lead. Turned TV off (back to stand by) and interference stopped.

The Engineer did say that the line is clear and it could be a problem with the Orange/BB gateway.

He also said that Openreach would not do a Lift and Shift unless errors appeared during a test.

He has put it down to a TV interference issue, but I've been trying to prove this is the reason - and just can't seem to prove it.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

his RF Meter picked up interference from the TV

Yes, but that wasn't what I asked. I'm suggesting that it would be worth while measuring how your router reacts to this TV interference cuz it is the errors that it sees that will affect its performance and ultimate connectivity. This will go some way towards proving what you want to prove and cannot see how to.

Sorry. To check how the router is seeing the errors, do I log in to the router and check it that way?

Yes, the usual router stats as we have been monitoring all along.

Concentrate on how the Error Seconds (ES) increase over Time Connected in the various TV situations.

Here are the current router stats. Being honest, I've had no end of re-syncs since this afternoon and its difficult to keep a track of what is going on. I've left the TV in stand by (as usual) and not turned it on just yet.


Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1197 (Kbps.)
Downstream 13166 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.4 dB 9.4 dB
Line Attenuation 17.6 dB 33.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.6 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 541129 0
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 1605 1
Loss of Signal Defect 3 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 6009 1
Error Seconds 160 16
Statistics
Received Cells 4862448
Transmitted Cells 652439

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 00:09:52
Downstream Rate: 13166kbps
Upstream Rate: 1197kbps

Unfortunately you are back to the same sort of stats that you had on the 7th April - in fact slightly less favourable: downstream sync was 14702kbps interleaved with a SNRM of 8.2dB now 13166Kbps interleaved and a SNRM of 9.4dB.

Think I would still perhaps go with my earlier suggestion of disconnecting the tele from the mains and rebooting the router at bedtime; then tomorrow, before you plug the tele back into the mains and turn it on, check the router stats for errors and any change to SNRM. If the errors and re-syncs continue overnight then you can probably rule out any influence on BB performance by the tele.

Thanks. I will certainly give it a try. I still have my doubts, but I need to start ruling things out. Just hoping I get no Re-syncs during the night.

A re-sync may not necessary be a bad thing before tomorrow if in the process the sync time SNRM falls to 6dB and your sync speed improves to ~15000Kbps due to a much lower error rate - in other words if the connection does stabilise markedly then the tele may indeed be the prime suspect...

Hello again

The TV was definitely playing a part in some of my broadband issues recently.
I'm still having random LoS's, and what I can't quite get my head around, is a huge drop on throughput speed.

Here are the router stats since the last reboot of the router early on Tuesday morning.

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1201 (Kbps.)
Downstream 11243 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.0 dB 14.3 dB
Line Attenuation 17.6 dB 33.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.9 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 32785 22
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 34 2
Loss of Signal Defect 4 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 447 1
Error Seconds 1515 75
Statistics
Received Cells 10978826
Transmitted Cells 656621

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 05:26:04
Downstream Rate: 11243kbps
Upstream Rate: 1201kbps

The Router is now nowhere near the TV, yet although my Downstream is showing 11.2mbps, a BTw Speedtester is showing a ping of 203, D/L of 2.37 and an U/L of 0.93.
I'm confused Again

Router has been powered on for more than 48 hours, last re-sync was just over 5 hours ago, error seconds are 1515 & 75 and downstream SNRM is currently 14.3dB.

Line still appears to lack stability and hence the probable downstream sync time SNRM of ~15dB which results in a sync speed of 11243Kbps. If the DSL connection holds with a SNRM of ~15dB and a sync speed of 11243Kbps can you live with that?

Throughput speeds and latency issues are a mystery - might be time to start thinking about changing ISP...

Thanks for your reply to my last post

I can live with a lower downstream speed (Currently 7744 and a NM of 15.6dB) but the problem I have now is still with downloading. My Son was downloading a game and speed dropped to below 1 meg, and today it took 26 minutes to download a 220 mb update on his Playstation. There might be a simple reason for it, but I've never known my download times to take this long before.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

I can live with a lower downstream speed (Currently 7744 and a NM of 15.6dB)

Sounds like the router has resync'd again and the connection is still up to it's old tricks by taking you back to ADSL1 (G.992.1 annex A)

Do you think it's time now to walk away from EE?

Yes, I had another re-sync just over 6 hours ago and you are spot on! I'm no longer on ASDL2+. I didn't even notice that.
I think it is a good time to walk away from EE, but I'm still in a contract and they don't seem to want to release me from it. I need to call them back as I missed a call from them today, and I will try and get some answers to my questions, but I suspect they will want to try some other things first. I didn't think an ISP could be so much hard work. Wish I had researched issues and problems before joining EE!

I thought you said before they would let you go without penalty if the BB performance could not be improved - 3 OR engineer visits and things don't seem to have got anywhere, SFI thought it might be the plasma tele causing issues but perhaps you have eliminated that possibility?

They did say they would let me go, but I missed the call from Customer Relations and the message they left sent me back through customer services who wouldn't put the call through.
The router has been moved and is now about 12 feet from the TV, and I still have that voice quoting "painting over it" to me on a regular basis. I still think something is wrong, but proving it is a whole new ball game. Going to call them shortly and see where we are going from here. BTw will not do a lift and shift unless something "significant" shows up while the SFI Engineer is at the Customers Home. I still think Prevention is better than cure, but many companies don't sadly.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

The router has been moved and is now about 12 feet from the TV,

Won't the TV be affecting the line, rather than the router itself?

You need to move the TV away from the line - or vice-versa.

In the meantime, you should be comparing behaviour with the TV unpowered (for quite a long period - 6 hours or more) against the TV up and running.

The only way you can prove to an SFI that the TV isn't involved is to convert it into a paperweight - unplug it!

I've been in touch with LG to see what they recommend regarding this problem. The router and cable are now nowhere near each other and are a lot further away from each other than they advise.
Still doesn't explain why while downloading a game, or firmware update should take a ridiculously long time and a BT speed test is showing a download speed of less than 1meg. My line is full of errors at higher speeds, and painfully slow and useless at lower speeds and higher Boise Margin. I can rule out the line as 3 Engineers have tested it, and 7 years of Sky BB didn't show the same issues.

I'm certain that WWWombat makes a valid point with regard to cabling though - I use a 15 foot twisted pair (CAT5 quality) rj11 adsl lead from a filtered faceplate (pressac) to the router, I get no reduction in BB performance over the supplied adsl leads that come with routers (which may not be twisted pair) and I also keep it away from mains cables and certainly never closely in parallel with them. I don't have a plasma tv though.

Actually I've heard stories where folks with plasma teles have shielded their routers with grounded aluminium foil and used CAT5 adsl leads to combat that plasma tv generated interference.

I didn't mean it to come across that I was disagreeing with him.
I called LG and took their advise and I am also using approved cables and not the standard one that came with the router. I just can't get my head around lower speeds causing so many problems, but equally having problems with higher speeds. I think I've said before that the reason for leaving Sky BB was due to them over subscribing their BB. I never had any other problem in the 7 years I was with them. Same TV, router in the same place and same Ethernet cables. It's just a really strange thing that I've not experienced before.

Didn't the SFI also say that the Orange/EE supplied routers might be a little more susceptible to the sort of noise that a plasma TV can produce than other routers?

BTW. had a bit of trouble myself today with a router: it couldn't get an internet connection for some reason, it sync'd to the exchange OK though. Got fed up with messing with it so swapped to a spare and that worked fine

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

Still doesn't explain why while downloading a game, or firmware update should take a ridiculously long time and a BT speed test is showing a download speed of less than 1meg.

So if I read you correctly, your line "works" until your try to actively transfer something large-ish over it, right?

If so...

My line is full of errors at higher speeds,

I wonder if this (^^^) is key.

If packets transferred over the link get corrupted, they need to be re-sent... using up a portion of the capacity of the line, and a portion of the capacity of the computer.

Once a certain portion need to be resent, the overhead of re-sending starts to be noticed. Even worse when a portion of the re-sent packets go missing too. The situation escalates at an ever increasing rate.

So perhaps your error rate is enough that the whole line grinds to a halt.

Have you tried running a TBB Ping Meter on your line?

I can rule out the line as 3 Engineers have tested it,

Except that you get a high error rate, and seem to have intermittent problems - the hardest sort to fix. It seems you have an intractable problem that is very hard to identify - so very little can be truly 100% ruled out. All that can happen (like the engineer who identified your TV as a culprit) is to identify each problem in turn, and see what happens after fixing it.

and 7 years of Sky BB didn't show the same issues.

That suggests that the problem either
- is in the wiring or equipment that was added/jointed when your line was taken away from Sky, or
- has been introduced since, or
- existed anyway but that the reaction of the different DSLAMs (or DLM) is having a catastrophically different impact.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

The router has been moved and is now about 12 feet from the TV, and I still have that voice quoting "painting over it" to me on a regular basis. I still think something is wrong, but proving it is a whole new ball game. Going to call them shortly and see where we are going from here. BTw will not do a lift and shift unless something "significant" shows up while the SFI Engineer is at the Customers Home. I still think Prevention is better than cure, but many companies don't sadly.

Your symptoms are classic of a poor joint, usually in the exchange when it follows a change of handover (I'm sorry I haven't gone through all your posts, but did your fault coincide with a change of ISP from a LLU provider?). An engineer testing at your master socket for 5 minutes will usually declare the line passes all tests, and if remote Brandenburg analysis has flagged a possible REIN issue this can be a red herring because although the fault makes the line more susceptible to REIN issues, this is effect not cause. A caveat is if you can reliably (say always at least once within 10 calls) disconnect the broadband by ringing your phone line (can you?) then the exchange equipment could also be at fault.

Nobody can know for sure, but if you rebook an engineer and convince them to physically remake the connections at the exchange then there's a decent chance you may fix the issue instantly - no harm in changing the E-side cable while they're at it. Sometimes it takes more than one engineer to inspect and re-make before it's made nicely.

Good luck. Edit: the main symptom to stress is frequent loss of connection - this is proof enough you don't have a healthy line. errors, sync speed and throughput speed are not red flags to an engineer.

Edited by deleted (Fri 19-Apr-13 09:09:26)

Have you monitored the connection with the TV completely switched off for a reasonable period as suggested, rather than just messing about with its cabling?

If the same problems occur then it won't be the TV as the cause; the diagnosis by the OR eng that it is will be false.

Still sounds like the original reconnection at exchange from Sky LLU to WBC was faulty and it still needs a "Lift 'n Shift".

Sorry for not getting back to your posts, but I'm struggling to work this out.

After the SFI Engineer my BB was running on G992.1(G.DMT,.
Then around 14 hours ago I had a re sync and was switched to ADSL2+ Interleaved,
Now I've had another re sync and I'm on ADSL2+ Fast Path.

Is this normal - or is there some process my Broadband is currently going through ?

Thanks for your post vimto_girl.

You are spot on with the switch from an LLU. Although my TV was causing some interference, but to stop the TV from fighting with the Brightbox, they have now been separated

I'm just wondering what I should be doing next as after chatting to an EE Fault Manager last night (due to a throughput speed of 0.03 while downloading an update for my sons PC game) I was told that after 48 hours of the SFI Engineer visiting my home, the fault is closed.

When I call back with further problems, EE open a new fault and start the whole diagnostic procedure from the start - hence the 3 Engineer visits to date.

I was advised to keep calling EE back regularly in order to keep the last fault open. Stupidity springs to mind when it comes to EE and although I love talking to them, I can hardly make up problems just to keep the fault open.

When you ring EE, you could ask to be put straight through to the Fault Management Team as they have been dealing with it previously. This team can then book an engineer to revisit the fault straight away. When EE refer to the fault being closed after 48 hours, they mean it has been classified as resolved in their own system (in this case seemingly because the last visit was reported as cause found - your telly). EE are keen to do this for all cases as soon as possible for obvious reasons, even though it can be too hasty. You can try requesting that they keep the ongoing fault open and do not close it before ringing you to check it has indeed been resolved following the visit (at 48h just say it is too early to tell and you will know better in a week or so). The fault being 'closed' has no practical bearing on booking another engineer visit - they won't be booked any later and the engineers will always pretty much come to your door and start from scratch with little to no knowledge of the fault even if it's the 4th, 5th, 6th visit.

EE are usually good at promptly booking engineers without fuss, some ISPs drag their feet or make it awkward to book visits. However if you are really not happy, you could take them up on their offer to exit the contract - and go to somewhere like AAISP on a monthly contract.

Hope this is of practical help.

PS The best form of separation is Divorce!

Absolutely spot on again. EE are very quick at sending an Engineer out and the Engineer that came out on the 3rd visit was the same one that came out on the 2nd visit (and as you rightfully mentioned) was given no details at all about the fault. Luckily he read from his notes on his previous visit, but still couldn't find anything wrong.

I called EE this evening to try and reopen the last fault, but they wouldn't. The advisor went ahead and started a line test. The first test "timed out" and the 2nd test showed a fault. I don't know if that because of an overlap with the timed out test or not?

Anyway, he has raised the fault further and someone is calling me back on Tuesday to discuss an Engineer visit to the Exchange. I will be double checking this tomorrow as according to EE, the 3rd engineer was supposed to be visiting the exchange and then coming to me, but he had not been instructed by anyone to visit the exchange.

Regarding the help in here, you have all been incredible. The advice has been constant and has given me a better understanding of the conversations I have had with EE's Fault Management Team. I must also say its great to know that there are people in this world that supply so much help and information to a "newie" like myself. It's been difficult to get some of the advice sorted out as quickly as we would like, but its been a massive help to me and I really do appreciate it

I wouldn't worry about EE's line tests - the engineer certainly won't. The frequent loss of sync on the line (with and despite elevated noise margin) is the main fault, and it needs to try to be resolved.

If I were you, I would first ring your landline from a mobile lots of times in succession (dont pick up so that there are no charges, you can even unplug the phone ) - see if you can reliably disconnect your broadband with this as a trigger. If it does, this information should be helpful to EE and engineers - they should think of a lift and shift to eliminate exchange equipment fault (although there are other causes too)

If you don't have this fault, then I would request another engineer visit to your house - I may be contradicting other's advice but I would recommend you do not request an exchange visit - almost invariably this will consist of some Lift N Shift request in EE's notes and end up with it not being authorised, nothing being done, the job signed off and another week wasted.

Instead, unplug the TV and put the mains cable in a drawer to show it has been unplugged in case this point gets raised again. Stress to the engineer the frequent disconnections, how it is making it unusable in the middle of eg Skype calls, gaming, and how it coincided exactly with the switch from Sky to EE. Say you know somebody who had a similar issue when they migrated and an engineer went to remake the connections in the exchange and it fixed it instantly, and could he please try that. Maybe also say if that doesn't work, you are thinking of putting a new line in to save the hassle because maybe it is the copper wire, and are wondering if an engineer can swap the cables to basically emulate this.

Best of luck

After a call to EE nearly 1 week ago, things were looking better after a fault was discovered during a "timed out" line test and the following one picking up a fault.

EE said it was showing as a fault at the Exchange and an Engineer would be calling me last Tuesday between 9am and 12pm.

About 9.30 last Monday I received a call Fromm EE to update me on the fault. The Fault Manager said that the fault has now been fixed, and I must not turn my router off. I did explain that EE testing my line as the fault closure process would force a re sync, so just close the fault without the line test.
The fault manager assured he would and hung up. Within 30 seconds of hanging up, he completed the line test anyway.

During the call I had logged into my router to see what was going on and all I could tell was that I had had a re-sync about 3.30 am. I asked if that was right and I was told "it was repaired remotely".

Anyway, once the line test had taken place, I logged into my router and his is what I was running on up until 4pm this afternoon.

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.1(G.DMT)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1152 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7744 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 7.0 dB 14.1 dB
Line Attenuation 18.0 dB 30.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.4 dBm 19.8 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 1
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 785 197
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 3 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 1118 155
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 3318 71
Statistics
Received Cells 23472196
Transmitted Cells 75829516

I hadn't been in all day today and while doing a speedtest (due to very laggy connection) I noticed that at 00:32 my throughput speed was 11.51 and another test a few minutes later it was showing a throughput speed of 1.08. I'm now on ADSL2+ as opposed to being on G.DMT as I was previously.

Does this suggest that I might still have a fault with my Broadband ?

Sometimes you are on ADSL2+ fast path, other times ADSL2+ interleaved and other times ADSL1 fast path - seems like a crazy mixed up connection that appears to be stuck in a never ending loop and can not settle on one particular modulation. Throughput also seems to be all over the place.

I certainly admire your enduring patience with EE!

Thanks for your reply 4M2

After the phone call from EE last week, all was stable and appeared to be good. I just don't know why I've had a random loss of signal, and I'm not sure why it has switched me to ADSL2+ with double the sync speed. This is just making no sense to me at all. I'm guessing that I'm now going to come across the same problems as I did previously and i suspect i am about to enter a similar battle with EE as I have had recently.

I can see one of us losing our temper fairly quickly.

In reply to a post by Vince730i:

I just don't know why I've had a random loss of signal, and I'm not sure why it has switched me to ADSL2+ with double the sync speed. This is just making no sense to me at all.

Hi, what are the full stats?

Here are the stats as of right now

I've got wildly fluctuating throughput speed and an ever changing Downstream Noise Margin. I was down to 6.8dB earlier, but currently claiming up again.

It does seem that your connection is more stable on fast path, G992.1(G.DMT) upstream sync 1152 Kbps, downstream sync 7744 Kbps, upstream noise margin 7.0dB and downstream noise margin 14.1dB (~15dB) on 18dB and 30dB attenuations.

When it changes to G.992.5 (ADSL2+) then you have all sorts of problems, then it reverts back to G992.1 (ADSL1) and this cycle seems to repeat almost as if it's stuck in a loop.

Possibly one solution, at this stage, might be to get the modulation anchored onto G992.1 (ADSL1) - this could be done by the ISP or with a router (but I'm not sure that's possible with your EE supplied router?)

What stats, there is nothing beyond a single 6.8dB figure, which means nothing in isolation

Did I forget to paste the stats on here?

Yes.

Oops. Sorry Here they are.


Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 20:08:49
Downstream Rate: 13748kbps
Upstream Rate: 1167kbps

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1167 (Kbps.)
Downstream 13748 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 9.1 dB
Line Attenuation 17.7 dB 33.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.4 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 195973 13
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 4 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 467807 15
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 11818 80
Statistics
Received Cells 3709801
Transmitted Cells 24298319