Fibre Upgrade... Problems as always!

What is it with BTO, nothing ever seems to run smoothly with these guys.

Fibre Upgrade took place a short while ago and although I have a Briadband Fibre Connection, I have no phone line! No dial tone...

Engineer said he has a dialtine at the cab and thought it may be a pairing issue but after checking everything he has no idea and leaves! What a joke!

I know have to wait for another engineer as it has been reported to the engineers manager as a fault. No time scale on when it will be fixed or nothing!

Has anyone else experienced this or heard of others with a similar problem?

The fault is clearly between the cab and my master socket as the engineer gets nothing at the property... What could it be?

Thanks all....

Oh! What speed do sky start you at when first connected (10day training)?

Edited by shaneosborne (Fri 02-Aug-13 11:42:44)

Ah great! Now I've received a text and an email stating that I could be charged for a missed appointment and to contact Sky! I give up on these useless @&£&@!

As sky FTTC is no different in that BTO have the controls, There is no 10 day training FTTC DLM doesn't work in that way, what speed you get from the begining will be likely to be the highest sync, from what others have said FTTC DLM will intervene only if it needs to usually within the first few days, but it's always on ,So it's best to avoid disconnecting/reconnecting the BTO Modem where possible .

Well, I hope it doesn't remain as it is as I'm only getting 16Mb sync when before I was getting 18Mb sync on standard adsl2.....

I'm also a little confused and concerned about the install provided by the BTO Engineer, I'm not sure if this will affect anything like speed but I do know that the engineer stated he got no dialtone from the test socket.

The BTO Engineer did NOT replace the faceplate, the old one is still in place and it uses the filter as it did with ADSL. So, will this affect my speed or connection in anyway and because the socket hasn't been replaced and the engineer is getting no dialtone could this be down to him not changing this?

As I stated before, my fibre works but no phone whatsoever and my speed is synced at 16Mb when on ADSL I was getting 18MB Stable connection with no problems...

Thanks in advance...

You should have dialtone - particularly if you had dial tone before.

This lack of dialtone may be crippling the VDSL if its because one wire of the two needed for voice is all that is connected.

The simple you get no dialtone in the test socket says something is wrong, assuming you previously got dialtone in the test socket (there are daft ways of wiring phones that mean a test socket may not work, so hence asking about previously)

All was fine prior to engineer visit...

All he said was that the dialtone isn't getting through (silent line).

He used all his test equipment and all confirmed no dialtone...

He revisited the cab and all is fine, so the problem lays between the cab and my home...

I'm going to take a look myself, I reckon I had a lazy engineer as he didn't change the faceplate or anything. Just connected it all and left it laying on the floor....

Only god knows what the problem is atm.

if your wiring is incoming line to back of master and thus direct to test socket, then fixing that should have been the priority even above turning on the fibre.

Well, I've just had a look and all wiring is fine and the test socket isn't giving a dialtone...

Why would everything be fine before the engineer visit (phone and adsl working) but now after activating fibre all I get is an Internet connection?

I checked all wiring and as far as I can tell, all is as should be...

If all us fine at the cab then what could cause the problem? Isn't it just a copper line from cab to my home socket?

I think I mentioned this before but he thought it could be some pairing error and I heard him tell his manager over the phone that that was fine as the cab was fine...

Grgggh! What happens now is what I would like to know. Sky know nothing, they keep sending me emails and texts stating I'm going to be charged for missing an appointment even though they know all the problems I've had with this activation and that I didn't miss the appointment and all the engineer said was he will report a fault and it will be looked in to and will be fixed when its fixed...

I LOVE IT!!! LoL

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

if your wiring is incoming line to back of master and thus direct to test socket, then fixing that should have been the priority even above turning on the fibre.

There was nothing to fix prior to activating the Fibre... Have I misunderstood your post :/

The engineer visits the cabinet in the street to jumper you across to the fibre side and unless you tested the line in between them doing that and them fiddling in your home, it is feasible that someone outside broke,

Given the comments you've made, I would be wary of believing the 'its alright at the cabinet', not having dialtone on the incoming pair is something the engineer would have looked into e.g. connect test kit directly to the incoming pair, or at a junction box just outside your home.

Ah, I got you.

I guess I'll have to wait..... I've emailed a complaint to BTO after Sky advised me too...

I've been told to telephone Sky again tomorrow, this will allow any update on my Fibre Provision to show....

It's a bit of a joke that they visit to do a simple upgrade but instead break it and worst if all, Just leave it!

I'll update this post as soon as I receive any further information....

Thanks again....

Oh! Not sure if this makes any difference but my upload seems very good at 2.6Meg when they advertise upto 2MB :/

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

Oh! Not sure if this makes any difference but my upload seems very good at 2.6Meg when they advertise upto 2MB :/

BTO were selling three products, 40/2, 40/10, and 80/20 to the ISPs.

Sky only sell Fibre Unlimited (£20/m), which is 40/10, and Fibre Unlimited Pro, which is 80/20 for £30/m.

Some early subscribers to Sky Fibre (last year) started off on 40/2, but they were all upgraded to 40/10.

MB or Mb?

Thanks JCHamier for clarifying that for me...

All I can do is wait and HOPE this gets fixed soon...

Just telephoned Sky for an update and it gets worse!!!

Please sir, complete this test and that test! Yes, the ones you completed 5 times yesterday in addition to those tests completed by the engineer.

What is it that Sky don't understand!

Now they have logged a fault because all they say no fault was previously reported and I have to wait up to 5 days!

Sky say that they have detected a fault on there tests and that it has now been passed to BTO AGAIN!!!!!

How poor is it that an engineer installs fibre, breaks the phone line connection then p!sses off and clearly does nothing!

Just been trying to call my landline from my mobile and this happens...

My home phone lights up stating incoming call but no ring... If I leave it then it shows missed call.
If I answer I get interference which sounds like I'm calling someone and its ringing but that's impossible as I'm calling in not out!!!

I try to make a call from landline but nothing, it's dead!

What on earth is the problem?

Let Sky log it as a voice fault. Seems they have. This is the best way forward. Do not worry too much as Sky very very rarely charge for callouts, they swallow the costs much more easily in my experience.

I think when BT openreach come out next they should resolve the issue.

To me it sounds like a dodgy connection or perhaps a pairing issue (even though the engineer said it was all paired correctly) but I have no knowledge on this but sounds as simple as that....

I wonder if this could be causing low fibre speeds?

Edited by shaneosborne (Sat 03-Aug-13 14:49:50)

Also have you reported the incorrect fibre install to Sky? You should have had the faceplate etc installed.

Do you have more than one phone socket, if not, it's probably not a major issue.

I did tell Sky about the Faceplate but the advisor didn't seem to know whether it needed to be changed and said leave it to see what BTO do...

I only have one phone socket throughout the property, the master socket...

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

I only have one phone socket throughout the property, the master socket...

It shouldn't really make a difference then, although it would have been nicer obviously to have the socket fitted as it should have been done. If you could get beyond first line support they would have known. Did you get routed to the fibre team?

No, didn't get put through. I did ask but the advisor said they won't be able to do anymore that he because all they would do is raise a fault, which he has done...

Ah well, we shall see what happens...

I have read that some old filters don't work as well with fibre due to different frequencies being filtered but no idea if this is true or not...

I have an update but is of no good news to me...

I've been advised that there is an external fault (disconnection) somewhere on the line...

I've been advised it should be assigned either today or tomorrow for someone to go out and investigate to find out where this disconnection is...

How can there be a disconnection on the line when everything worked before? Fibre is working and as explained previously the landline is all over the place...

Looks like I'm being fed [censored] again!!!!

There are a few changes to connections when you move to fibre, some in the exchange and some in the cabinet. Any one of these could have resulted with a poor or broken connection - relatively easily done whenever anything is changed with wiring. What is amazing is that the first engineer left without sorting it out.

Could be one half of the pair is disconnected or intermittent.

Edited by deleted (Mon 05-Aug-13 14:38:18)

Sky Executive Support are dealing with this now....

Perhaps a wire has been placed incorrectly, strange how the phone registers a call but doesn't rung and when answered it seems to be ringing out

Tried complaining to Openreach about the engineer but they refuse to acknowledge the complaint and refer me to my ISP. Openreach website clearly states to contact them if I am unhappy with an engineer and his/her work....

I'll keep you all updated.....

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

Openreach website clearly states to contact them if I am unhappy with an engineer and his/her work....

You could email the Openreach big boss? Google the name (its easy) and use firstname.lastname @ openreach.co.uk

Edited by jchamier (Mon 05-Aug-13 19:09:08)

You could email the Openreach big boss? Google the name (its easy) and use firstname.lastname @ openreach.co.uk

Many thanks, anything is worth a try at this stage...

After a c0ck up by VM and BT we had no working phone with BT for 3 weeks but the Eclipse internet connection worked perfectly for that time.

The connection at the exchange has two different paths and one can work without the other.

I wonder if either of the wires has broken within the IDC connections?

These connectors not only pierce the insulation (by definition); but have to pierce the surface of the already-very-thin copper wire to make "solid contact", rather like the initial action of wire cutters, creating a weak spot in the wire.

Subsequent handling, for any purpose, can then break the copper, without there being any obvious damage "on the surface", the insulation hiding the break.

In other applications, continuous vibration can also cause such weakened wie to break.

Not easily spotted!

Is there anywhere online to check if BTO are performing work in a particular area?

Just walked past my cab and BTO are there digging up the roads...

Just curious to know if it could be related to my fault and whether any such system would tell me what works are being completed...

Engineer just arrived and told me my whole road is experiencing same problem, only 5-6 properties. He reckons its a li e break underground so where but after running tests he now thinks otherwise... He is off to the CAB... I said all was working prior to fibre install and he then was surprised as he wasn't aware of this... He was advised it was a new developing fault...

I'll keep you posted... He should call me soon as I need to remove the test equipment for him to run the test back to house....

UPDATE: engineer just phoned to get me to remove test equipment.... By what he said I think he is pretty [censored] off - Ive got this mess sorted out at the cab and will hopefully be back with you in 10 mins if all goes well...

Edited by shaneosborne (Tue 06-Aug-13 14:47:20)

He said the previous engineer (if you can call him that) got all the wires mixed to all the properties. He is surprised because the job only involves two wires and he had touched approx 8!

What he thinks happened is that he was training someone and the trainer wasn't keeping an eye on his trainee... He then tried covering up the mess which made it worse and said I failed the appointment...

The BTO Engineer is getting fedup going around making right faulty work!!!

He is now moving my faceplate and says I have a good line and exchange.... 40/10

UPDATE::: What a GREAT engineer! Either that or he liked my tea

All sorted, even moved everything for me for easier access!!

Not a great speed but better than what it was :/



Download Speed: 25.9 Mbps
Upload Speed: 5.6 Mbps

All up and running and he said my line is at max although his equipment isn't 100% accurate it could still go up....

Edited by shaneosborne (Tue 06-Aug-13 15:37:59)

Assume that the other properties have been fixed at the same time then and there was no need to dig up the road

He has moved on to my neighbours now as he needs to run tests and get all the pairs for each property matched :/ Nice job... So, no road or ruining my overgrown garden, unfortunatly

There are some good engineers out there who can figure out the mess that sometimes arise.

Alas these days too many people in lots of jobs only do the bare minimum

having read this as a guest, i felt compelled to join this forum as i had to comment on this.

i have direct knowledge of this and can confirm that this is a big and growing problem.

it is simply because (large telecoms company) are using third party contractors to do fibre installs, these guys get minimum training and get paid per completed job. unfortunately this combination is leading to very poor quality fibre installs and major customer dissatisfaction.

i am only glad that a proper engineer came round and fixed it for you.

bridgetap

I can confirm an ex-fireman friend was trained in a basic fashion but was let go after a year. He was ok as far as I know but with minimum wage what can you expect.

I vaguely recall a report about ex-service men and women being employed by BT/OR. With so many installs to be carried out and so few installers then something has to give and it is the quality we expect from BT/OR.

The original install engineer 'Kelly Communications' just totally bodged the job!

However, the BTO Engineer who is an ex forces communications engineer done the work better than expected and went out if his way to put it all right.

The issue is that the contractor gets paid per job whereas the BTO Engineer gets paid regardless, that's where problems lye....

At the end if the day it costs more money when this happens and who pays for it? WE DO!!!!

Another engineer arrived today - To install Fibre! [censored]!

They gone mad, it's already installed!

Anyway, I now know why I have such a low sync. Because I'm being served by a cab almost 1mile away! I have 6 cabs all within 300yds upto 1/2 mile and I'm being served by the furthest away...

My cab is almost right outside the exchange, seems like a waste of money to me....
Back to ADSL for me....

Edited by shaneosborne (Thu 08-Aug-13 10:35:08)

Didn't think distance was an issue with fibre?

FTTC distance is an issue - it still has a copper component from cab to home and that is very much affected by distance.

EDIT : Fixed brain with help from Xrayspex. I knew what I meant but my keyboard didn't auto correct for me

Edited by ian72 (Thu 08-Aug-13 14:03:13)

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

The original install engineer 'Kelly Communications' just totally bodged the job!

I was about to ask was it Kelly Comms as we have lost patience in their skills.

Of our fibre installs, 75% of the one's Kelly's were doing, we had to send out repeat engineers to correct the job/fix knock on issues. Some of our larger clients are now also refusing Kelly Comms to do work on their behalf and sending the engineers away, even to the point they are happy to take to penalty hit.

The others you see are MJ Quinn, which at the moment have perfect install record for us, though they do get a much lower percentage of jobs for us.

In reply to a post by ian72:

FTTC distance is an issue - it still has a copper component from cab to exchange and that is very much affected by distance.

No, the copper's from cab to home; cab to exchange is the fibre in FTTC.

Oops. Sorry, brain trouble there. Will edit.

Thought I'd register and comment...
Upgraded the other day to Infinity having been given sales talk at the end of my contract. I was getting 14/1.2 Mbs on copper so had been happy with that.
They messed up the engineer date and a week after I should have been upgraded a contractor arrived, left the modem on the floor, plugged in the Homehub 4 (which I had previously installed on ADSL) and departed rapidly 5 minutes later saying that it was all working and that the router would 'stabilize'. Dead as a dead dogs dongo!
A week later after 4 calls to BT (Asia!) I finally managed to get another engineer visit luckily a local guy who I had met recently repairing a fault at our other property.
The contractor hadn't even moved the connection in the cab - proof of which was that the original copper was still up and running at 14Mb
To add insult to injury I subsequently got the BT text thing asking for my customer satisfaction score. What are they on.

i had something like this happen to cable at home many moons ago.

I lived on a main road and everytime a bus or HGV truck passed my internet would drop.

Yeah a number of them were employed. My sister had an ex soldier fit her fibre and he was HOT HOT HOT with no shirt on lol.

Also when i was living at home BT Sent out an engineer to move our phone line and he was unable to job his job because of his disability. He had 5 fingers between both hands and couldnt grip the wires.

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

He said the previous engineer (if you can call him that) got all the wires mixed to all the properties. He is surprised because the job only involves two wires and he had touched approx 8!

What he thinks happened is that he was training someone and the trainer wasn't keeping an eye on his trainee... He then tried covering up the mess which made it worse and said I failed the appointment...

The BTO Engineer is getting fedup going around making right faulty work!!!

He is now moving my faceplate and says I have a good line and exchange.... 40/10

UPDATE::: What a GREAT engineer! Either that or he liked my tea

All sorted, even moved everything for me for easier access!!

Not a great speed but better than what it was :/



Download Speed: 25.9 Mbps
Upload Speed: 5.6 Mbps

All up and running and he said my line is at max although his equipment isn't 100% accurate it could still go up....

I must say my experience with Openreach engineers have almost entirely been like this second one - when I had my fibre installed and the phone wasn't working properly (had to be rejumpered at the exchange) the two guys insisted hanging around for three hours and would not leave until they personally tested it in a working state - even after I said I didn't care and didn't even need a phone line.

The installer guy you got IMO is an exception from the norm and sounds like a total ****-up. That said, he may have been subcontracted/outsourced which explains the poor service, all the actual Openreach engineers I've had have been excellent. Installs however do sometimes get done by lets say, erm... less qualified install techs rather than full engineers.

In reply to a post by sheep222:

i have direct knowledge of this and can confirm that this is a big and growing problem.

it is simply because (large telecoms company) are using third party contractors to do fibre installs, these guys get minimum training and get paid per completed job. unfortunately this combination is leading to very poor quality fibre installs and major customer dissatisfaction.

Indeed, last time I had actual Openreach techies round a year and a half ago they had a few words to say about these "install techs" as well, they were surprised they even managed to fit a faceplate properly - until I explained it was proper Openreach bods who did the job. Last I heard you can't expect them to do anything properly beyond taking the modem out of the box

Regarding the "forces communications engineer", keep in mind that his life and the lives of his colleagues depended very directly on doing their respective jobs properly "in the field on operations", frequently under extremely onerous conditions!

And their instructors had correspondingly been through such conditions - thus knew clearly why they were teaching and training the trainees.

--------------------------------

Regarding your cabinet location, could it be due to the history of your location?

For example (and I don't know your specifics), yours may be an older "rural" house connected years ago to a remote cabinet and onwards to a remote exchange.

Later, a "New Town" or new estates have grown up, needing a new exchange and more cabinets.

Might be worth checking.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by shaneosborne:

The original install engineer 'Kelly Communications' just totally bodged the job!

I was about to ask was it Kelly Comms as we have lost patience in their skills.

It's not just BT installs that Kelly Comms screw up...