Sky or Plusnet?

Hi All,

I need to decide who to go with out of Sky and Plusnet.

My bro-in-law has had Sky for a mnth (prev NTL). He says it's been fine and has had no problems with equipment and connection. He actually says that the day he plugged in the Sky router his speeds actually increased. He downloads at all times of the day and so far is going ok. I know Sky are massive but not ISP experts but will their money buy them the things req'd to deliver a great Bband service?

A friend has Plusnet. He has been with them for just over a year now and he says that initially there were some probs with speeds etc but now that seems to have been resolved although sometimes speed in the day is a little slow. He dnlds mainly in the off-peak hrs 12am-4pm as stated by plusnet and is satisfied with his ISP. He also mentioned changes that are due that should improve things as well as BT buying Plusnet so there being the ISP experience and weight behind them.

I will be downloading approx 45-65gb a month, mainly peer-peer, and am wary of being tied into a yr deal and then finding i hate it! I have read both pluses and negs about Sky, the pluses being obv price

If you check out the dedicated forums for Sky and Plusnet it may help you to make a decision.

If you do 65Gig or more a month then go with Sky IMO

Hi B, as an ex PlusNet customer I can assure you PlusNet do not have strong customer service; the phone is huge wait times; the ticket system is overloaded and speeds are very poor at all times, but more importantly general quality of connection is low.

Sky FUP

we could have answered this question reading the title alone.

Sky.

Right then, where to start...

After reading some of the replies, I'd best start with some history...

Where we were...
Last year, our service was far from superb. Customer Support wait times were unreasonable, platform stability was unacceptable and we failed to keep up with demands for bandwidth. We took our eyes of the ball and I'm quite happy to admit that. We had a number of problems caused by badly handled implementations of 8Mb speed upgrades, LLU migrations, E-Mail platform migration etc... and it nearly killed us.

Where we are now...
Right now, however, we're in a much better place. This is a trend, I believe, that's set to continue. We're rolling out improvements left right and centre and things are only set to get better. In the last few months alone we've :-

Customer Support
- Reduced average wait time on the phones to less than 3 minutes
- Call answer rate best it has ever been around 75-80%
- Introduced dedicated support for Business customers (yesterday average wait was 16seconds)
- 60% 'First-Time-Fix' rate on customer tickets
- Reintroduced 'real-time' customer support statistics at http://csc.plus.net

Platform
- Invested in more central capacity, with further capacity on order ready for growth (we *won't* take our eyes of this ball again!)
- Purchased a

Edited by deleted (Wed 04-Apr-07 14:53:50)

Cool.

Have to say i'm impressed and I think this is what my friend was referring to when he said things had improved at PN. They actually talk to the people and sound like they know what they r saying. Then again they could say anything and I prob wouldn't know if it was right or wrong!

My major worry with Sky is it filling it's books with customers but not being able to deliver. Also on other forums I have seen some Sky users stating they r downloading 100's of gigs, surely they will kill the experience for others?

I also wonder what speeds I would get via either. PN do up to 8mb and Sky up to 16mb. I live just a touch over 2 miles from the exchange which is LLU enabled.

I have signed for a mnth to PN on a freebie and in the meantime will keep an eye on goings on at Sky. Having looked at both ISP's forums on this site there is a mix of people. Sky have happy customers and downright annoyed ones! PN have happy and unhappy although a lot of the unhappy, if not all, are ex-customers and not current. It would be nice to have feeedback off a current customer as well.

One reply mentioned no. of customers on each ISP, that Sky had more than PN. Would less not mean better sharing of bandwidth or is that a total misunderstanding of the technology?

Thanks for your replies, and that in just a day! Please give any more advice/opinions throughout the month and I will post back when i have made a final decision at the end of this offer.

Could i just ask the Plusnet ISP Rep. what advantages would there be for a user needing and i quote from the original post "I will be downloading approx 45-65gb a month, mainly peer-peer". Are things about to change at Plusnet that suddenly 65gig of P2P traffic a month would be ok?
I only ask as if this is the case your company could well be a very important and good choice in the FUTURE for some looking for a new provider through these forums.

Edited by deleted (Wed 04-Apr-07 18:43:14)

If you aren't too keen on the 12 month Sky contract take a look at UKFSN (Entanet).

Could i just ask the Plusnet ISP Rep. what advantages would there be for a user needing and i quote from the original post "I will be downloading approx 45-65gb a month, mainly peer-peer". Are things about to change at Plusnet that suddenly 65gig of P2P traffic a month would be ok?

We focus on offering sustainable products, with set usage allowances which allow us to deliver a decent customer experience. We have lots of customers using plenty more than the giggage the OP is looking at using. But they're not doing it when the network is at is busiest, and they're quite happy with that arrangement where it's also not included in their usage allowances.

The bottom line is that we'll provide the most capacity we possibly can per product. We'll make sure this is carved up fairly and then we'll make sure that the interactive applications are not affected by customers using sustained downloads such as P2P or Usenet. As interactive traffic drops off, P2P and Usenet can have all the more bandwidth on the platform.

If customers want to use lots and lots of P2P in the evening, then they need to be on a PAYG product on which we can allocate more bandwidth as customers are buying it by the GB. We think that's the fairest way - and we're not the only ISP seeing this problem. Others just aren't as open with the customer about how they attempt to manage it.

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We have lots of customers using plenty more than the giggage the OP is looking at using. But they're not doing it when the network is at is busiest, and they're quite happy with that arrangement where it's also not included in their usage allowances.

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Fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. It fool me. We can't get fooled again.

> Fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. It fool me. We can't get fooled again.

Understood - We've been down a difficult path in the last two years and it's taken us a long time to sort ourselves out. During that time a lot of people that we didn't want to impact were put out, and by some we will never be forgiven for the hassle they have had.

As it is, we have a couple of hundred customers who clear over 100GB a month on products that cost them less than

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As part of our new product launch later this month, we'll be publishing a completely honest and transparent usage allowance along with clear expectations about what people can expect to receive from our service in terms of speed and performance, and we'll pull out all the stops to make sure we deliver to those expectations.

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That is good to hear, certainly will make a change for an ISP to be completely HONEST AND CLEAR about what is and is not acceptable.
It sounds like you have learned from previous mistakes which is a good thing. I hope that quoted promise doesnt come back to haunt Plusnet in the up and coming months, with un-happy users that feel they are not getting what is promised.
Ive always maintained that any ISP should know what is and is not possible in terms of the infrastucture and equipment in general they have in place. It will be nice to see an ISP NOT promising more then they can or want to deliver to the customer

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Apr-07 15:09:48)

You've almost made a sale, just one question.

You say a one month contract, do you genuinely mean I cancel after one month and not be charged any cancellation fees? Or is it 12 months, but you cancel after 1 month if you pay cancellation fees?

Would it be any difference if you migrate in and have your own equipment?

Cheers

If you migrate in, you can migrate in under the free 30 day trial offer. During which you can leave at any point without any penalties or cost. If you leave after the 30 days, you're free to do so, but if it is within a year, we'll just ask you to cover the

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Apr-07 16:27:45)

As a former PLUS.NET customer, i must say that you Imartin (and plusnet) are doing a good / great job in repairing plusnets reputation on this forum...

=P even made me tempted to return to plusnet

Cheers :-)

> =P even made me tempted to return to plusnet

So, what can I do for you ;-) ?

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Apr-07 19:13:38)

so what is free about the first month then if you have to pay for it if you leave ?

It's free if you either leave (or should I say make a request to leave) within the first 30 days, or if you don't leave within a year.

There's a good reason the clause is there - it's a shame it has to be, but it's purpose isn't to catch people out.

Ian

To be fair to the plusnet staff even if they do make a small charge for you to leave inside the first 12 months, thats better then some ISPs that would make you pay up the whole remaining 12 month contract.

Also with BTs new charges coming in and most services having a cease fee involved you can ALL expect to see most ISPs somehow recoup some of that loss.

I personally dont have an issue with it, what i would have an issue with is if Plusnet or any provider splashes the words FREE in big shiney letters and then put a tiny *, !, % or whatever sign next to it, then bury it away in tiny tiny tiny print in an obscure link, that there is a charge if you leave within 12 months....

However given the honesty thats been coming from plusnet in the past couple of posts in this thread i dont think they will do anything naughty like that with their newly revised packages. They seem they are going to be upfront about the caps etc so i would think they will be honest about any leaving charge, atleast i hope so. If they dont then to me that would not be open and honest.

I dunno about the rest of you, but id rather a company be upfront about charges, caps and other rubbish we have to live with in this day and age then hide them.

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Apr-07 19:51:09)

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To be fair to the plusnet staff even if they do make a small charge for you to leave inside the first 12 months, thats better then some ISPs that would make you pay up the whole remaining 12 month contract.

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The

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Apr-07 20:13:28)

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If you decide to stay past the trial, but leave within 12 months then we expect the customer to pay for the initial free month

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It isn't an initial free month then is it?

It is if you stay with us, though. It's like free hardware and activation if you stay with us for 12 months. We can't subsidise the cost of these things for customers who leave within 12 months. If we did, the prices would have to go up for everyone in order to cover the cost - and that's hardly fair is it?

What is fair, is that if you migrate in and decide to leave, you pay us back for the costs we have incurred on your behalf. (i.e. the inbound migration fee and the first month's subscription). There are no over-inflated cancellation charges, and we don't tie you into the 12-18 month contracts like other ISPs do.

seems pretty fair to me.

Taken from your website -

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We're so confident you'll love our service we'll pay for you to leave if you're not satisfied!

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I fail to see how charging someone for a so-called "free" month can be be construed as paying for them to leave if they aren't happy. You are happy to put "FREE" in great big letters but when it comes to the being open and honest you put the catch in much smaller font.

It's a 30 day free trial. The 30 day bit is quite clear, in my opinion.

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It's a 30 day free trial

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It's not free if you have to pay for it.

It's a trial, for only 30 days. We make the 30 day bit clear as I've already said. It's free in that, if you don't want to stay with us, you can leave at any point during the trial and pay absolutely nothing - it's free to leave. Additionally, if you stay with us for over 12 months then you end up paying nothing for that first month.

If you decide that we're right for you and stay past the trial, but then wish to leave within 12 months - we'll just ask you to cover the cost of the first month's subscription.

From what I can see, there is no argument to have here. It seems both clear and fair to me.

Edited by deleted (Fri 06-Apr-07 17:15:54)

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If you decide that we're right for you and stay past the trial, but then wish to leave within 12 months - we'll just ask you to cover the cost of the first month's subscription

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Which means it's not free.

It's free if you stay with them for more than twelve months.

It is a free trial because if you do not like the service you can migrate away.

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It's free if you stay with them for more than twelve months.

It is a free trial because if you do not like the service you can migrate away.

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It's not free if you leave within 12 months

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It's not free if you leave within 12 months

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With all due respect you are being stupid and rather pedantic.

The Plusnet Rep has explained more then crystal CLEARLY that first month is a trial month which is free if you stay with them 12 months or longer.

They have also explained the only time it is not free is if you leave before 12 months are up.. If you stop for a moment and think about it the reason for that is clear.

If they gave away the first month with no strings at all attached then there would be nothing to stop people joining and then leaving as soon as the first free month ended would there?

People could if theory then sign up to another provider with a 1 month contract, leave them after that month, re-join Plusnet, stay another FREE month, then leave again, and repeat the whole process over again, plusnet or any provider that done that wouldnt make any money would they?

You seem to forget that providing any type of service to a consumer is something called a "business" and the whole point of a "business" is to make money. If it wasnt it would be a charity.

I will freely admit just like the Plusnet reps have that from reading alot of Plusnet customers have been unhappy in the past. However IMO in this thread atleast the Plusnet reps have been open and honest about packages they are planning on introducing, that to me is a good thing and a step forward in the right direction.

Critisise an ISP about past mistakes, moan about a company when they have screwed the customer, but for god sake dont be a nit picking fool and moan when they are trying to improve things and be open and honest, that makes no sense and only makes you look stupid IMO.

Oh and no i aint a Plusnet fanboy, my original recommendation to the original poster was Sky and it would still AT THE MOMENT be sky until details about final caps etc on new Plusnet packages are announced.

Edited by deleted (Fri 06-Apr-07 22:50:04)

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If they gave away the first month with no strings at all attached then there would be nothing to stop people joining and then leaving as soon as the first free month ended would there?

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and it would match their advertising.

Wat on Earth?! Are there any mods on this site or wat? I posted up in the 'Which ISP?' section and initially received relevant replies but this is ridiculous! There is a section called' ISP Unhappiness', so 'movie' and others, go moan in there u are not contributing to my question in the slightest. I am perfectly clear as to what the free month consists of and think it perfectly fair and legitimate. If you have any constructive comments and reasons for not signing up to PN that is related to the service they provide, line speeds etc then please do divulge. Likewise with Sky. Positives as well as negs is all I asked for.

Sheesh!

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Likewise with Sky

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Free router with sky. Up to 16Mb speeds, unlimited downloading.

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Free router with sky. Up to 16Mb speeds, unlimited downloading.

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Oh dear not only stupid and pedantic but also a misleading fountain of disinformation that skims over the facts...

1. You can only have the 16Mb service if you are in a easynet area.

2. The so called 'Unlimited downloading' is nothing of the sort, they have a fair use policy like most providers which states and i quote "... if your use of Sky Broadband becomes consistently excessive and has an adverse impact on the Sky Network and/or other users, our FUP enables us to intervene."

3. One of the actions they MAY take is (again i quote) "impose a monthly usage cap on your use of Sky Broadband which you must not exceed" DOESNT SOUND SO UNLIMITED NOW DOES IT?

dont believe me??? read the above and more here
http://broadband.sky.com/TermsandConditions.pdf

I will say on a 16Mb LLU sky service you are likely to be allowed to download more then with Plusnet, but that cannot be confirmed or denied 100% as sky give no figure.

The reasons i would still choose sky over Plusnet at this precise moment are (AND THESE ARE THE REAL FACTS)

1. if you are in a easynet area you are LIKELY to get more speed then you will with Plusnet or any other BT max based ISP service.
2. You get a decent Netgear wireless 4 port modem/router with sky which normally costs around 60 quid
3. If you have their TV service already it will also probably be cheaper then many BT Max based products from many ISPs

Movie i suggest you run along, you are clearly here just to bash Plusnet, and argue a pointless arguement. Even if they are the worse ISP in the world (which in my opinion they are not, infact they are far from the worse) your comments are not welcome, needed or useful in any way whatsoever to the original poster.

Say something constructive, relevant and what is FACTUAL to the poster that needs advice or just dont bother.

Edited by deleted (Sat 07-Apr-07 04:30:40)

You seem to not respond to the OP's posts but rather to plough your own furrow.

You apparently have little time for the ISP fair enough, say so and move on, but don't disregard the needs of the OP just to promote your own views.

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I will say on a 16Mb LLU sky service you are likely to be allowed to download more then with Plusnet, but that cannot be confirmed or denied 100% as sky give no figure.

The reasons i would still choose sky over Plusnet at this precise moment are (AND THESE ARE THE REAL FACTS)

1. if you are in a easynet area you are LIKELY to get more speed then you will with Plusnet or any other BT max based ISP service.
2. You get a decent Netgear wireless 4 port modem/router with sky which normally costs around 60 quid
3. If you have their TV service already it will also probably be cheaper then many BT Max based products from many ISPs [UNQUOTE]

Thanks mate, that's much more relevant, back on track whoo!

Ok, I do live in an Easynet LLU enabled area, as stated earlier I'm just over 2 miles from the exchange.
I already have a NETGEAR router, it may be the same mode l(DG834Gv2) so that's not too much of an incentive.
I have Sky TV one of (the curses of liking Football!) so the offer is available for

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Oh dear not only stupid and pedantic but also a misleading fountain of disinformation that skims over the facts...

1. You can only have the 16Mb service if you are in a easynet area.

2. The so called 'Unlimited downloading' is nothing of the sort, they have a fair use policy like most providers which states and i quote "... if your use of Sky Broadband becomes consistently excessive and has an adverse impact on the Sky Network and/or other users, our FUP enables us to intervene."

3. One of the actions they MAY take is (again i quote) "impose a monthly usage cap on your use of Sky Broadband which you must not exceed" DOESNT SOUND SO UNLIMITED NOW DOES IT?

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I'm just relying on my experience rather than drawing conclusions based on the postings of others.

1. I get 14Mb downloads
2. I get unlimited downloads
3. I don't get a monthly usage cap.

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You seem to not respond to the OP's posts

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The post you responded to was in response to the question I quoted, so I don't see what you're getting at.

I am also on Plusnet on Premier and find it is good for what I do.

The only advice I would give is during your free trial period make sure you test everything you want to use so you know it fits your needs. Thats what I did during my free trial and all went well so I signed up fully.

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I am also on Plusnet on Premier and find it is good for what I do.

The only advice I would give is during your free trial period make sure you test everything you want to use so you know it fits your needs. Thats what I did during my free trial and all went well so I signed up fully.

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Indeed for general usage if you know how many gigs you need per month Plusnet do not seem a bad choice compared to some.

However I will say after just looking at their webpages for the first time in about 6 months i could NOT recommend ANY of their packages to people that regularly want P2P/Binary USENET or TV/Radio/Movie downloads.

Plusnet by their own admission do admit say at peak times the experience for people with that type of use will be quote "Non-interactive experience. Customers will see restricted speeds whenever the network is busy." or in other words and proper English... throttled to death lol

I could not find any Plusnet package where they can say with certainty at peak times those types of service would not be affected when it comes to actual raw speed, not even with a business package or a PAYG package.

This is very strange IMO and very poor when the especially if the customer is paying per gig. It would also if i were a business instantly turn me away because if they want to charge a premium price for business users but not provide 'more' then whats the point?

Whats even stranger is if you look at http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/network/roadmap.shtml They say in 2004 60% (and rising) of traffic was P2P, if you look at that graph carefully you can see that as speeds have got faster people have wanted MORE content from their connections, which makes sense. What doesnt make sense is if Plusnet know what the customer wants most of the time why do they limit it at peak times?

Thats a rhetorical question BTW we all know why really... MONEY!

From looking at their pages and Plusnets honesty here in this forum i would say they could be a good provider if you mainly just browse, email, and maybe game online a bit.

I could not recommend any of their packages if you are a heavy user (and by heavy i mean max your connection download wise more then 3 hours every day, in plusnets eyes with a little quick maths that would NOT be acceptable and you would find your speed throttled).

Personally I can see why providers do throttle and apply limits, but within a few years that is going to have to change. Throttling at the moment depending on what form is used can kill any connection that just wants to stream a youtube video. If the future is online streaming HDTV like content then stupid throttle controls and silly under 100gig caps IMO is not the way forward, of course thats just my opinion.

I also believe if you do nothing but just browse web pages on the internet and send email like some broadband suppliers would like you to do. Then there is NO point in you paying say 15 quid (i use that figure as a rough average) per month for broadband.

If all you are doing is email and browsing, you could probably for the same price or not much more, with little noticed difference in speed do the same thing on a old fashioned PAYG dial up connection without worry of any type of contract or any type of download limit or peak/off peak time rubbish (of course you still have to pay per minute, but if you only browse and email your actual time online per month probably isnt much anyway). Thats just my opinion.

Edited by deleted (Sat 07-Apr-07 19:57:26)

Off topic, but in reply to your last paragraph. I moved to broadband when I noticed my POTS dial-up costs were more than the cost of a monthly broadband subscription. That would remain the case today. I am a typical light user.

Further i have just read...
quote "The P2P effect
P2P (Filesharing applications like BitTorrent and Kazaa) by their very nature are "dirty" protocols. This means they will consume as much of the available bandwidth as is available - give them an inch and they will try to take a yard! This has driven up total bandwidth consumption worldwide, as shown in the earlier diagram. Furthermore, the saturating effect of these applications will detrimentally impact the quality of all other traffic being consumed on the network at the same time. P2P is predominately a consumer orientated service, currently used to download music, videos or software (both legitimately and illegitimately)."

Im sorry to the Plusnet staff that post on this forum but calling any application in the 21st century a "dirty" protocol, when it does what for many years was a holy grail (That being give content on demand when and how the consumer wants it).

Not only shows your utter contempt for innovation but also shows exactly how you feel and your opinions on the future of any protocol/application that is capable of making the most of bandwidth that is available, to deliver content to users at great speed whenever they want it.

I wonder do they realise their is actually P2P services now which are legitimate that deliver HDTV like content, which only in a few paragraphs previous they were blabbering about how wonderful it would be on their network balanced and traffic identified network... hmmmm. Sorry Plusnet but you have lost my vote now, you cant call a technical break through in the way traffic is transfered over the net a dirty product just because you dont like the way it costs you money if lots of people use it.
Even some movie studios and industry admit they may have to provide P2P content in the future if they are to survive, infact Universal in a way already does.

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Off topic, but in reply to your last paragraph. I moved to broadband when I noticed my POTS dial-up costs were more than the cost of a monthly broadband subscription. That would remain the case today. I am a typical light user.

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I did say if you only browse and email, i take it you do more then that?

Edited by deleted (Sat 07-Apr-07 20:14:14)

talk about stupid and pedantic but also a misleading fountain of disinformation that skims over the facts. your nonsense posts take the biscuit

My posts are not nonsense at all, I have read sky

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My posts are not nonsense at all, I have read sky

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I have not at any point argued over silly little minor points (aka TROLLED) such as Plusnets free 1 month trial, which is clear about its facts you need to stay for 12 months to get that month free.

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Not being one to carry on a conversation beyond making my point, but I hardly call raising awareness of the fact that it isn't a free trial and that it isn't clear that it isn't free to leave plusnet if you aren't happy with the service, trolling.

Just because people don't adhere to your idea of free, open and honest does not justify you making personal attacks against other people on this forum. I suggest while you are looking up the definition of pedantic you also look up the definition of troll and then remember the old adage "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

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Yes they are. You're not posting from experience, just conjecture.

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Really and i assume you have experience of Plusnets FREE 30 day thing do you???
Or is that just conjecture and more useless info from you?
I would be thrilled to know

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Not being one to carry on a conversation beyond making my point, but I hardly call raising awareness of the fact that it isn't a free trial and that it isn't clear that it isn't free to leave plusnet if you aren't happy with the service, trolling.

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It is when you persistantly argue with isp staff over it when they have been upfront about the terms of said free trial. Its also trolling when you continue to post nothing on topic with relation to the original thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

please note this part: "Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, more often than not based on what they thought was said rather than what was actually said by the other person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others."
Looking at some of movies post history id say that sums him up nicely.
Fear not though I wont feed him anymore, there is after all a fine line between fat and obese.

Edited by deleted (Sat 07-Apr-07 23:29:37)

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Really and i assume you have experience of Plusnets FREE 30 day thing do you

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I have plenty of experience with plusnet and sky - which you obviously lack. You're just posting based on what others have said. You don't -know-.

There's a couple of things I'd like to respond to there, and I'd be very interested in carrying on the discussion with you about our approach to traffic management - We have nothing to hide, and pride ourselves on the fact that after a bit of a journey, we have reached a point where we can be totally honest about what experience we can deliver to our customers.

You are right that for consumers looking for fast P2P and Binary Usenet downloads during the evenings, PlusNet are not an ISP with an appropriate product right now*, and we'd be the first to highlight that. For our customers who do work within our approach, and keep most of their big downloads outside of peak hours, there is no shortage of capacity for P2P and they can download as much, if not more, than anyone could with another ISP. Our approach is in fact to prioritse capacity for things like Streaming media (Youtube included), Radio and Kontiki/4OD during peak times so that these always work well. I should add that although technically P2P apps, those apps like Kontiki (Sky over Broadband etc) are not what we are talking about when we say 'P2P' or Filesharing (As the article you quote from highlights!).

I should also highlight that we aren't calling P2P apps dirty as in "they are wrong and bad" in that article. The fact is that the actual protocols deployed by the filesharing P2P apps are very aggressive and difficult to control - they take over and squeeze other protocols running on the same network and don't behave well when confronted with standard forms of network contention. That causes a problem for all ISPs, however much capacity they have available - Without QoS, it would cause a problem for you on an 8Mb line if you were downloading a file with an agressive protocol at the same time as trying to hold a voip call or play a game that needs a good ping. As an ISP, we have no inclination towards policing the types of content people download, but we do care if P2P use is stiffling the growing and popular protocols that people want to use in 'real time' - Streaming from sites like Youtube and Myspace, as well as games like Secondlife and WOW being prime examples.

All ISPs are reaching a point where their broadband networks will always be running full (The growth in demand coupled with economics and the intended wholesale design means that has become the norm for all ISPs). More and more people are using these new demanding services, and it's not simply a drive for profit that makes us impose controls on P2P apps like Kazaa and Limewire. There is of course a cost element to all this, but it's not about profit - Currently, ISPs pay BT ~

Edited by IanWild (Sun 08-Apr-07 01:31:01)

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There's a couple of things I'd like to respond to there, and I'd be very interested in carrying on the discussion with you about our approach to traffic management - We have nothing to hide, and pride ourselves on the fact that after a bit of a journey, we have reached a point where we can be totally honest about what experience we can deliver to our customers.

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Which one of these products meets the OP requirement then?

Product  	Warning email sent  	Restrictions applied

Premier 1 	24GB 	 	 	 	30GB

Premier 2 	36GB 	 	 	 	45GB

Premier 3 	48GB 	 	 	 	60GB

Plus 	 	10GB     	 	 	12.5GB

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You are right that for consumers looking for fast P2P and Binary Usenet downloads during the evenings, PlusNet are not an ISP with an appropriate product right now*, and we'd be the first to highlight that.

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Thank you for pointing that out, once again being honest to readers and confirming my opinion on that was correct and not conjecture. No doubt a certain troll will even find something to argue about with either of us about that point also.

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Our approach is in fact to prioritise capacity for things like Streaming media (Youtube included), Radio and Kontiki/4OD during peak times so that these always work well. I should add that although technically P2P apps, those apps like Kontiki (Sky over Broadband etc) are not what we are talking about when we say 'P2P' or Filesharing (As the article you quote from highlights!).

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While the effort to maintain various services perform well for everyone should be applauded, it does again bring up a question. If a user wants to use bittorrent on a RARE occasion and is on your Broadband PAYG Basic (which is charged at equivalent of

Edited by deleted (Sun 08-Apr-07 10:24:40)

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Thank you for pointing that out, once again being honest to readers and confirming my opinion on that was correct and not conjecture.

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If Plusnet are unable to offer the OP a suitable product, then what are they doing in this thread? A sales pitch?

Specific criticisms were raised against PlusNet. It is right and proper that any misconceptions should be corrected. That, after all, is the purpose of these forums.

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That, after all, is the purpose of these forums

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But this is the "Which ISP" forum, not the Plusnet forum. They aren't responding to the OP and they aren't able to offer a suitable product to the OP.

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Specific criticisms were raised against PlusNet. It is right and proper that any misconceptions should be corrected. That, after all, is the purpose of these forums.

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Indeed john2007, Plusnet have taken the time to explain future services and also explain how and why they manage a network, all this is good information with regards to whether a user should, or should not choose them as an ISP.

Love or Hate Plusnet you have to respect them for posting on here and explaining their services, If only more ISPs would do that users could talk to a real company member to make decisions about them.

I freely admit information i may give when recommending an ISP could be wrong, the same can be said for anyone else that posts on these forums (none of us are the be all and know all about everything).

However having a voice from the company here allows these points are discussed freely and openly, which again allows users considering an ISP to reach a realistic conclusion about them.

If the OP is still reading i imagine by now he has more information about Plusnet and their services then he ever dreamed he would get, without the Plusnet staff members posting and entering discussion alot of this information would have been omitted from the debate

A lot of people (including me) are not responding to the OP.

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While I agree in a way and can comprehend what you are saying, what are your plans for the future going to be when ADSL2+ or similar services fully arrive? (which for BT is only 2 years off)

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I thought that BT Wholesale were going to launch ADSL2+ services next year whether someones exchange has been upgraded to the 21CN or not?

Isn't it time a few people read the OPs other posts in this thread? In particular the one where he points out that most of the argument should be elsewhere and does nothing to help him.

Well there is definitely more info than I expected to get about PN on this discussion but every little bit helps. The lack of Sky info provided has, to be honest, put me off. I am very wary of the people who are, in their own words on other forums, downloading 'the interweb' until they are capped or chucked off by Sky. That can't be doing much for the other users experience.

I am currently on the Premier 1 option...yes there is a 20GB limit and the restrictions actually begin at 13GB which is a bit ummm 'miffing' but I am not willing to pay more than

LOL. They will do what they do so I'll just have to reply where I see fit and let the trailblazers carry on blazing their trail...whatever that trail may be :-p

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Which one of these products meets the OP requirement then?

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You've quoted the peak time SUP levels there. The OP said he had a friend who "dnlds mainly in the off-peak hrs 12am-4pm", so is obviously aware that if he downloads during those times the peak time usage levels aren't relevant. As I said before, we have plenty of customers paying us <

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I thought that BT Wholesale were going to launch ADSL2+ services next year whether someones exchange has been upgraded to the 21CN or not?

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Different to what i heard. I heard some will not get BT21CN or ADSL2+ to 2009.

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You've quoted the peak time SUP levels there. The OP said he had a friend who "dnlds mainly in the off-peak hrs 12am-4pm", so is obviously aware that if he downloads during those times the peak time usage levels aren't relevant. As I said before, we have plenty of customers paying us <

Edited by deleted (Sun 08-Apr-07 14:34:59)

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While the effort to maintain various services perform well for everyone should be applauded, it does again bring up a question. If a user wants to use bittorrent on a RARE occasion and is on your Broadband PAYG Basic (which is charged at equivalent of

Ian Wild
PlusNet Product Development Team
About the Comms Team
Our Portal Forums
The UserGroup Forums

Edited by IanWild (Sun 08-Apr-07 15:49:02)

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I think it's a very fair point. The product you refer to is something of an annomaly imo and very definately not designed for people who want to download DVD sized files. The

Broadband gets cheaper every year. My Council Tax, water rates and energy bills are getting more expensive. So the broadband market is in a pretty healthy state.

Much of the country has options of cable. LLU investment has only really started to kick in yet has coverage overtaking cable.

I don't think BT are holding isp's to ransom. Providers can and do hook up with other wholesalers. The bandwidth still costs real money though and the LLU providers will have to face the same economic reality that cable had to sooner or later. Nobody is making money out of LLU.

Plusnet is a budget isp. Sky are an extremely overpriced pay tv provider. The choice between the two is really based on how long you wish to lock yourself into paying Sky for their TV.

Edited by deleted (Sun 08-Apr-07 21:21:15)

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I go with PN and if I find them unsuitable will go for...another post :-p Having seen the depth of making an ISP decision, so to speak, I really can't bring myself to be tied to a yearly contract

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But you ARE stuck with a yearly contract - unless you fancy paying for the "free" month and migration in order to leave.

Dude, if I leave within the free month then I won't have to pay anything, so if it's no good for me I will request to leave in the last week and won't be charged.

Should I leave after the month and within 12 so for clarity's sake lets say I leave after 3 mnths then there will be a charge to pay but it will still be a smaller amount than I would pay for a yr's bband deal.

Are you the kind of guy who haggles on free offers?!

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after 3 mnths then there will be a charge to pay but it will still be a smaller amount than I would pay for a yr's bband deal

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Actually, it would be about the same amount you would pay Sky for a year's unlimited 16Mb broadand

What, more than a

He doesnt read FULLY what people are saying and keeps banding that word "unlimited" about which doesnt technically exist unless you have around 60 quid a month to spend on your broadband.

Well, how much do you think you would have paid Plusnet if you migrated away after 3 months?

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Well, how much do you think you would have paid Plusnet if you migrated away after 3 months?

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Oh pleeeassse staff do something this has to stop. The constant nit picking, the constant trolling, the constant need to be right even when clearly wrong and then having to change the subject to try to be right on something.

Jesus christ almighty, its like having a conversation with a goldfish which forgets what was said 5 seconds ago.

The originally poster knows exactly what they would pay if they leave before the month is up and the original poster knows what they would pay if they stay longer then that first month, for the love of god sheeeeeeeeeeeessshh

Edited by deleted (Mon 09-Apr-07 16:00:24)

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The originally poster knows exactly what they would pay if they leave before the month is up and the original poster knows what they would pay if they stay longer then that first month

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If they know they can post it here for everyone's enlightenment. I'm surprised Plusnet staff haven't responded with a clear and open answer of how much either.

I don't know but I think it would be close to the amount for a whole year of Sky Broadband.

> I'm surprised Plusnet staff haven't responded with a clear and open answer of how much either.

Sorry - Isn't that exactly what Liam did post?

Perhaps you could spell out how much it would cost a Sky subscriber to leave after 2 months for a comparison. Sky make my Council Tax look cheap

Edited by deleted (Mon 09-Apr-07 20:10:56)

Ok, so that shows the OP would have to pay

?!

I was always taught that if I didn't understand something then it's best to stay quiet and attempt to understand it before speaking to others to teach them about the topic in question. I kindly ask you to take heed of this advice also.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you trying to add your opinion but nothing you have said has really been relevant. I also appreciate that you feel you are being relevant by trying to outline the costs of leaving PN but you have got your figures wrong. It would cost me 14.99 + 21.99 to leave PN within a year. The money already paid for the prior months subscriptions would not count because that is not a cost of leaving. So in my case, if I decide to leave within the free month it's free, the month after it's 14.99 + 21.99.

Just so you're clear, I am with PN. If I leave PN having decided their prod range from 11 April is not of use to me, then I will leave for FREE. That's F-R-E-E because it will be within a month. If I went with Sky then regardless of what I thought, I would be stuck for a yr. No good. Bad. I have learned all of this from the posts left for me and other sections of the site.

Should SKY become known for offering a decent Bband package and by package I mean the whole shebang, realistic usage limits, good connection, good speeds, good CS+TS and the option to change after a month rather than a yr, then I will go with them as I have had SKY TV for years and can't see it going anywhere cos of my big, bad addiction to Football and all other sports.

To be honest , the mods can lock this post if they want as I have made a decision for now and the info provided by members and PN is good for others too but I feel that the paths we are going down now add nothing by way of an answer. I can always post again with any further info should I need to, which I prob will (unless others beat me to it) once I see the new prod range later this week.

I will lock it as suggested by the OP it seems to be now going around in circles.