Plusnet "Current Line Speed"

It's me again!

Yesterday I got my fibre upgrade at last, and it's brilliant.

It is a little slower than the predicted 54 mbps with the BT Wholesale checker getting 51, which is fine, but the upload is a lot slower than the predicted 16 mbps, with the Wholesale checker getting 9.5 mbps. [Testing performed on a laptop connected via ethernet with all programs except web browser blocked from accessing internet]

I'm absolutely fine with the speeds, but I'm curious about this information on my Plusnet account:

Telephone number:
01788XXXXXX
Phone exchange:
RUGBY
Estimated line speed:
54Mb (Download speed could vary depending on line conditions. Estimates are the maximum speeds that your phone line can support. These speeds are dependent on the package you choose.) - Checked on 2014-01-23 16:45:58
Current line speed:
78 Mb

The blurb below says that the "current line speed" is "based on your sync speed". So does that mean I am syncing at that speed? If so, would I be correct in thinking the IP Profile is a little low?

Answering the closing question first, no. They set it to 78Mbps at the start, and it adjusts to just below the BT IP Profile after a bit.

What does/did this checker say about your line? Particularly are you within the ranges given?

Don't forget the estimates are connection speed, not throughput/speedtest.

The checker you linked says:
FTTC Range A (Clean) 72.7 54.6 20 16.3 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 62 34.9 20 11.4 -- Available

The IP Profile is set to 53.7 mbps according to the BT Wholesale speed test.

Was it an Openreach engineer that fitted it, or a Kelly's or Quinn's contractor. If the latter, can you describe your set up please ?

Unfortunately, it was a Quinn contractor.

Here is a picture showing the setup:
http://f.cl.ly/items/373p0E2C2t1V0W1v2J2I/image.jpg
[Ignore the internet status light; it flashes]

It's fairly simple: DSL -> ECI Openreach Modem -> Plusnet Router -> My network

I mention ECI because my cabinet is Huawei so the brands aren't matched.

OK thanks, without horsing through that other thread, are there any other telephone sockets in your gaff ?

There are, but nothing is connected to them.

A sky box was connected, and I can't reach the socket to add a double filter due to a large cabinet so I just unplugged the telephone cable from the sky box.

There are, but nothing is connected to them.

So, if you remove the lower faceplate from the NTE you show in the picture, does this stop there being dial tone present on ALL these other sockets ?

Before I remove the plate, will the DSL connection be interrupted by doing so? The modem has been on since the install, don't really want to turn it off in case it syncs slower.

Yes it will. Course if the installer has left a bridge tap on the line, it's going to get slower and slower anyway !

Well, I've read that the fibre socket filters the internet connection out before the internal wiring even touches it, so I don't think internal interference could be the source of the slowdown?

Edited by deleted (Wed 12-Feb-14 19:53:43)

Yes, but if there's a socket connected across the pair before the NTE, this is a bridge tap, and will be causing slow speeds and errors.

Ah, I see.

Well, is a bridge tap visible?

I can take the cover off and test all the sockets but isn't it probable that the speed will slow especially since now is a peak time?

Edited by deleted (Wed 12-Feb-14 20:02:56)

You won't affect the sync rate, but without a hacked modem, you won't be seeing that anyway.

A bridge tap might not be visible to the untrained eye, but using the previously described steps will prove if the little tinkers have left one on the circuit.

I will do some investigating.

When you questioned whether it was an Openreach engineer or Quinn's - what would the difference be in terms of the install?

The difference is the quality of the job they tend to, and in case you haven't guessed or noticed via other threads Zarjaz is a very helpful BT Engineer.

I see.

So will I be okay to disconnect the modem to test for a bridge tap? I know the 10 day stabilisation is somewhat of a myth but I'm still erring on the side of caution!

Yes, and if there is a bridge tap, DLM will continue to do its worse till it's resolved.

So, whip the front plate off, there should now be no dialling tone present on ANY other point in the premises apart from the test jack.

'Course, it just be a bum pair from the cab, but let us at least rule out what we can.

Maybe power it down first then disconnect?
Then visa versa.

Remember to switch the modem off before disconnecting it or connecting it to the phone line, and you'll be fine.

You may get a short-term lower sync tonight, because connections made when it is dark are often a bit slower. Don't worry, a disconnect/reconnect in daylight hours will fix it.

Zarjaz: you're a genius!

Took the faceplate off. Extension 1 - dead. 2 - dead. 3 - dead and so on.

Extension 6? A dial tone!

And now I remember! When the house was built we moaned about the lack of a phone socket in an upstairs bedroom!

They must have bridge tapped it!

[FWIW the connection is about 2 mbps faster now I've turned the modem off and on. Coincidence I'm sure.]

Edited to add sincere apologies for the over-use of exclamation marks haha

Edited by deleted (Wed 12-Feb-14 21:09:27)

That answers your question earlier

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

When you questioned whether it was an Openreach engineer or Quinn's - what would the difference be in terms of the install?

So I guess an Openreach engineer would have spotted the bridge tap and fixed it?

Annoying. So how would I go about fixing this, and how many piggy banks are going to have to get smashed? Haha

Did BT install the bedroom extension?

Almost certainly not. It's bound to have been the useless electrical contractor Electract I've ranted about before.

So there IS a bridge tap .......

In theory, if all else fails, report slow speeds to your ISP and the Brandenberg test system should pick it up, and you'll get an engineer out.

OR ......

How's your place fed, over head or underground ? You need to to establish where the feed comes in, and where the sparks bodged in the connection.
This might take some photo's being taken by you .......

The house is fed underground. And here's where it gets interesting...

Late last year, we mysteriously lost all connection. Phone wouldn't get a tone in the test socket etc.

A BT engineer came and he said that we had a backup line and switched us to that. Somehow, the existing cable had fractured about 5 yards from the junction box, likely due to block paving work on the drive.

The plot thickens.

What sort of photos are you requiring? I'll do a search around for what cables I can see in the daylight.

One more thing... I have a VDSL microfilter from a previous FTTC connection I had from a company called Vtesse Networks. (Long story... They arrived before Openreach FTTC, closed late last year by Ofcom due to noncompliance and they weren't profitable anyway).
So, should I try plugging the Openreach modem into the extension that is from the bridge tap using that microfilter?

A BT engineer came and he said that we had a backup line and switched us to that. Somehow, the existing cable had fractured about 5 yards from the junction box, likely due to block paving work on the drive.

It is very common for the underground feed to a property to have more than one pair in it, the engineer has used a spare pair to restore service, common practice, and acceptable/expected.

What sort of photos are you requiring? I'll do a search around for what cables I can see in the daylight.

Where does the UG feed appear ? In a grey box on the wall outside ? If so, a picture, with the lid removed of this, so we can see the terminations in there please. Have a shufty and see if you can establish what goes where cable wise. Can you see where the feed to the rogue extension runs from ?

Just having a quick look now.

I take it the last part of my post is a bad idea?

And many thanks for all your time and expertise in this!

It wouldn't happen to be this would it?
http://f.cl.ly/items/1T1e3005472x1g1t0U1X/image.jpg

Also on the direct opposite of the master socket on the outside there is this:
http://f.cl.ly/items/1f3m2F1i2o0r2r1e450d/image.jpg

I think it's a phone line extension for a sky box in the conservatory.

Edited by deleted (Wed 12-Feb-14 22:04:44)

The first one is housing for an electric junction, don't touch.

The second one does indeed look like an extension, and I'd suspect it's been done by Sky judging by the size/type of cable and the generally poor way it's been run.

Ok. Yup, that line sure is shoddy!

So what am I looking for? Could the drop line just go straight underground, in, and up to the master socket?

And what about trying the Openreach modem in the other socket with the VDSL microfilter? Or am I getting completely the wrong end of the stick?

Zarjaz is asking if you have an "External NTE". Scroll down this page and there is a section about it, with photos.

Do you mean that as well as the bedroom one, there is possibly another socket (the one in the conservatory) that works when the master faceplate is off? ?

Thank you for the link.

No, the extension is designed to be plugged into the master socket. Not an extension per se, just a really long phone cable.

Looking at the link, the external NTEs were installed from late 2008 on. My house was completed late 2007, which I guess is why I can't find it!

Very poor set up by sky in your extension as sky normally don't care about your phone line, broadband speed or satellite dish setup. Sky only interesting is your money not the quality setup.

Zarjaz is asking if you have an "External NTE"

Oi you ! No I ain't, I'm asking if he's got a BT66

And what about trying the Openreach modem in the other socket with the VDSL microfilter? Or am I getting completely the wrong end of the stick?

This was on an old second/different line, so I suspect a red herring, unless this 'other VDSL socket has dialling tone on it as well ?

So what am I looking for? Could the drop line just go straight underground, in, and up to the master socket?

A BT66 junction box. (see my last reply to Robertos for link to picture)

Sorry, I'm not being very clear.

At the moment, there is the "master" socket. (Quotation marks used as it seems to have been superseded haha)

And then there's extension 6 which works even when the master socket is disconnected, i.e. runs off a bridge tap.

I was wondering if I could plug the Openreach modem into extension 6 using the VDSL microfilter while the master is disconnected to see if I get any faster speeds?

Will have a rummage for the BT66 tomorrow. It must be somewhere!

But you'll still have a bridge tap

But if the bridge tap comes before the master socket then I thought the bridge tap wouldn't have any interference as it's effectively a proper master socket?

Nope. It isn't.

The 2 sockets are wired in parallel. If you use one, the other is the bridge tap.

I get it now... God I know naff all!

Will search for the BT66 tomorrow.

Agreed.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

The 2 sockets are wired in parallel.

That assumes that the one in the bedroom isn't actually the "entry point", and the "master" is wired from it.

Our old house, circa 1996, was wired this way. Until the original ADSL installer fed the incoming line through to the final extension with jelly crimps, and turned that one into the new master with ADSL faceplate.

Curious routing from an underground feed: Enters house on the outside wall of the living room, next seen in the front bedroom, then routes down to the hall, then back to an upstairs bedroom at the back.

Is there a way I can disconnect the bedroom socket, and then test the "master" socket, to see if the master is tapped off of the bedroom socket?

Assuming that the bedroom socket has a "plain" full-size face-plate, and doesn't have the split faceplate of an NTE-5...

The simplest thing to do is to take the cover off that bedroom socket, and see what wires are in there.

If there is one cable with (probably) 2 or 3 wires connected to the faceplate, then it is at the far end of a spur, and the joint is somewhere else.

If there are 2 cables, each with (probably) 2 or 3 wires connected to the faceplate, then this bears more investigation.

If there is anything other than these 2 cases, it also bears more investigation.

Here is all I can find on the side of the house:
http://cl.ly/image/2K420D0n252M/Screen%20Shot%202014...

Yup, you see that right. One of the old (101?) covers bearing the older than old BT logo. My Googling shows that this is over 22 years old - on a house finished in December 2007!

My neighbour's house has the same thing.

The white cable next to this grey cover is a power supply to external plug sockets. So I have some lovely electrical interference to contend with too...

Am I authorised to remove the capping to investigate?

On the other side of the wall, where you can see in the image the copper cable enters the building, nothing can be seen. So I think this is the bridge tap up to the bedroom.

This setup is especially weird as my master socket is on completely the opposite side of the house to this drop-wire. The bedroom socket (the one running off the bridge tap), is on the same side of the house as this drop-wire.

The fault-finding system you (Zarjaz) mentioned in an older post has already flagged up that our line is not performing as well as expected and Plusnet are aware.

Edited by deleted (Thu 13-Feb-14 16:37:39)

Also known as a connector bend no.4.

Of course you shouldn't be taking the cover off it, but I'm sure not so dim as to not tuck it all back in neatly in place before you screw the lid back on

I'm actually thinking, on seeing that picture, that it's teed in somewhere else.

The fault-finding system you (Zarjaz) mentioned in an older post has already flagged up that our line is not performing as well as expected and Plusnet are aware.

Well that's good, how soon will they raise a fault ? Maybe you can just sit tight till the engineer comes, show him the issue, as in the bridge tapped socket, and let him find it for you.

Hmmm. Might have peak inside. I don't understand why it's on the other side to the master.

Plusnet are wanting to wait for the 10 day myth period to end. I'm not going to bother arguing with them.

Go on, it's only two screws, you know you want to

Where's your neighbours master socket, same location or nearer where the drop wire enters?

The master socket for next door is in the hallway, as was mine until it was moved to the study.

Go on, it's only two screws, you know you want to

Three, actually.

The master socket for next door is in the hallway, as was mine until it was moved to the study.

So is there still a socket of some description, or maybe a blanking plate at that location. That might be worth a peek too.

In the hallway, there is this:
http://f.cl.ly/items/0d1e060B0z2w3w2r3i0B/image.jpg

So, there's some sort of blank plate, and a socket (which does not work when the master is disconnected).

And as to the 2/3 screws thing, if you look at the image the third screw is missing

Here's the inside of the bedroom socket.
http://f.cl.ly/items/1B0B1A453I0P1h2g3y3T/image.jpg

Just one large cable with two wires connected to the front plate.

And as to the 2/3 screws thing, if you look at the image the third screw is missing

Oh my God, why didn't you mention this before ? That'll be why yer t'internet is slow !!

So if the pictured socket stops working when the faceplate is pulled, it looks unlikely that it's teed in there.
I wonder whats behind the blanking plate ? Have a peek, be careful though, as it might have power cables in it.

The blank plate covers... DRUM ROLL PLEASE!

Absolutely nothing!

http://f.cl.ly/items/0y1V0b223s0S2P2Z1c0g/image.jpg

If there is one cable with (probably) 2 or 3 wires connected to the faceplate, then it is at the far end of a spur, and the joint is somewhere else.

Yes, so it's the 'somewhere else' joint that needs finding.

Lets hope the sparks haven't been 'clever' and teed it in and then hinder the joint beneath floorboards or some such !

Maybe the wire on the outside grey cover thing is where it's been bridge tapped?

..... and his mate next to him ?

Could be, whip it off and give us a gander. (ooh err Missus !)

I spy with my little eye something beginning with jelly crimp.

Joy.

http://f.cl.ly/items/002B2k2I182V0Q3d1i1B/image.jpg
http://f.cl.ly/items/1N0j1m042M192u1k1Y3v/image.jpg

Just one in and one out though, so ain't there. Nasty 3 way crimps though, hate the gits. Don't like the look of the corrosion on the feed pair either. I'd be stripping back on the two pair UG feed to get to clean copper I would.

You can see that the pair has been swapped out, as you mentioned last night. It's on the second pair, the orange white being the first.

I'd deffo show the engineer that, for correction, if and when you get one.

Well I'm glad you managed to interpret something from that tangling mess!

Hmmm... This is so annoying! Where on earth have they tapped this line in?

Since I don't use the telephone sockets, would the engineer be able to just connect the drop wire straight to a filter and then to the modem?

PS you don't happen to live in the Midlands area do you? What are your callout fees?

Since I don't use the telephone sockets, would the engineer be able to just connect the drop wire straight to a filter and then to the modem?

So you don't use ANY of the other sockets at all ? Me, I'd be running a new exterior feed direct to the NTE, well unless it were raining !

Nah, fraid not.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Go on, it's only two screws, you know you want to

Three, actually.

There are three holes, but only two screws - look closer

Well we never use the landline (when other people say they do, I almost don't believe them. Who uses landlines still?! *Awaits hate mail*)

We have two Sky boxes which are in theory meant to be connected to the phone line, but neither have been for at least a year, and if I had to connect them temporarily I'd get a crazy long phone cable from somewhere.

Yeah, Brookzy told me that ........ If it's loose screws that are the issue, maybe he should speak to ADSLMax ?

I hadn't read that far when I replied.

Ring Capacitor? hmmm, If this isn't the master, shouldn't this be a 2/3A aka a Secondary Socket?

It's not the master, but it's an extension that mysteriously works when the master is disconnected.

But with a ring capacitor it is probably detrimental to the line when connected anyway?

Im trying to ascertain where the bridge tap is but am having no success. I'd be quite happy to have the drop wire connected straight to the modem via a filter but I can't see that happening.

Could it be that this is the wiring arrangement?

https://community.bt.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-i...

In which case, could I buy an NTE5, an Openreach fibre plate, install these on the bedroom socket and remove the current master socket?

That is the probable arrangement, yes. But No! You cannot mess with that - neither legally nor sensibly.

You need to leave it to the engineer. Suggest to them on arrival that if it is difficult to find and fix, you would be perfectly happy if the master socket was repositioned wherever, as suggested earlier by Zarjaz, with a direct feed from that external box and cabled externally. All other sockets disabled.

You already have the NTE5, 5A and VDSL filter. No need to buy.

Ok, won't touch it.

Will this be covered by BT/Openreach or should I expect a charge?

Will this be covered by BT/Openreach or should I expect a charge?

If raised by Plusnet ASAP it *should* come out as ELF (early life failure) and hopefully not charged, ...........

Plusnet are now reversing their past position, now saying that the line is performing as expected.

Here we go...

Edited by deleted (Fri 14-Feb-14 20:02:16)

Based on what I wonder ?

The 'current line speed' has moved from the 78 mbps it was before to 54 mbps. So maybe that?

Seems likely. Does their remote test not now show a bridge tap then ?

I don't think it ever did; it just said that the line was performing below the expected speed.

They would appear to have you by the short and curly's !

Haha

But at the end of the day, the speed is outside of the BT Checker's 54-72 mbps estimate when most people seem to have speeds at the upper end of the estimate.

I suppose I also have to factor in that the cab is absolutely full (so much so that another DSLAM is being installed soon), so there's bound to be a lot of crosstalk.

Argh - things have now got worse!

Overnight there was a short power cut (a few minutes at most), which has resulted in my line speed dropping to 45 mbps on the BT Wholesale test. My IP profile is still set at 53.09 mbps.

The interesting thing is that on speedtest.net, while the test is being run, the speed hits just under 52 mbps (my previous speed), and then scales back to 45 as though there is some sort of throttling happening.

I tried rebooting the modem, which made the speed drop again, now to 42 mbps.

Sigh...

Possibly somehow your IP profile dropped for a bit and the PN copy updated, downwards. Did you do another reconnection, raising the IP Profile and he PN one not yet updated? (Remember, it isn't done in real-time). Certainly you need to check the PN Current line speed.

I can't remember if you have access to the line stats, either through a hacked modem or a non-PN router?

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 18-Feb-14 22:44:28)

Try http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html you get a copy of the graph during the test afterwards.

Spikes in flash testers are not uncommon and depending on how the specific ookla server is set up it can report a reading higher than you would expect

I don't have a hacked modem. I have got an old VDSL modem/router combo from Vtesse Networks' consumer broadband venture but not familiar with it.

The PN line stats now are:
Telephone number:
01788XXXXXX
Phone exchange:
RUGBY
Estimated line speed:
54Mb (Download speed could vary depending on line conditions. Estimates are the maximum speeds that your phone line can support. These speeds are dependent on the package you choose.) - Checked on 2014-01-23 16:45:58
Current line speed:
47.8 Mb

Meaning it has over time dropped from 78 mbps to 53 mbps to 47.8 mbps.

Will do, as soon as I can have all the bandwidth to myself!

(Geeky family problems haha)

Those aren't line stats . Connection/sync speed, attenuation and noise margins are the minimum you get with line stats.

The Current line speed though is 47.8Mbps. That strongly implies to me my suggestion was correct.

Tomorrow, in daylight, turn off the modem for 5 minutes. Then back on. Check the new BT IP Profile, then the Plusnet line speed. The PN line speed is unlikely to self-correct for a few hours, but if you ring support they can reset it there and then.

Ah yes, my bad.

Will give it a go. But 47.8 mbps is still unacceptable when 1) I was at 53 on day of install*, and 2) I should be on far more than even 53 when I get the bridge tap fixed.

[*Crosstalk can be ignored as a cause for slowdown as the cab is absolutely full so no new connections since mine.]

Maybe I'm being greedy, but we download on average 27GB a day. Every meg counts

Edited to add - I think I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a toothpick than stay on hold with Plusnet ever again...

Edited by deleted (Tue 18-Feb-14 23:45:14)

Right, now the Plusnet "current line speed" has increased to 53 mbps but my connection is still at 44.

Hopefully modem reboot will fix this.

UPDATE:

Woo! Reboot worked! Back to 50 mbps...

BT Wholesale results
TBB test result

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Feb-14 11:57:35)

And further good news! Plusnet just called - they're sending an SFI engineer tomorrow to see what's causing the slowdown (hopefully it's just the bridge tap).

On the support ticket there are some interesting stats. Still not proper line stats I don't think, but here's a screenshot anyway...

http://f.cl.ly/items/0y062j2h2T353F0g3P1N/Screen%20S...

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

And further good news! Plusnet just called - they're sending an SFI engineer tomorrow to see what's causing the slowdown (hopefully it's just the bridge tap).

On the support ticket there are some interesting stats. Still not proper line stats I don't think, but here's a screenshot anyway...

http://f.cl.ly/items/0y062j2h2T353F0g3P1N/Screen%20S...

Beware of SFI will charge you lot of money!

Hmm... Well nothing was mentioned about a charge by Plusnet. In fact, they said BT requested the appointment, not me or Plusnet.

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

Hmm... Well nothing was mentioned about a charge by Plusnet. In fact, they said BT requested the appointment, not me or Plusnet.

Make sure u not charged by it on your next billing.

I'll try to keep the engineer on "his" side of the NTE5

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Beware of SFI will charge you lot of money!

Not if they find a fault before the master socket. I was never charged for mine in 2011.

Let's hope he finds where that extension is connected and does something about it. Make sure you tell him about it working when the master faceplate is removed.

Will do.

It's a bit strange that the Plusnet test passed finding no faults and yet BT have found something and requested an appointment so quickly.

No isp's can be perfect 100%. Good on BT finally found a fault. Very odd & rare for BT to found this.

Edited by adslmax (Wed 19-Feb-14 18:49:36)

Good point, but I assumed they'd just use some form of BT Wholesale testing.

Maybe. Something like that.

Don't forget to mention that nastiness behind the capping outside. Clearly you haven't seen it but you might wonder, out loud, if that is where the rouge connection is

Please ignore Adslmax ...... (sigh)

It was the BT engineer who switched the line to the second pair remember? He said "if you get fibre you might want to mention this to the installer" hahaha

Ah yes. I hope you get someone thorough. I do wonder if the UG lead in is borked also, if the first pair was bum, the second might not be that good either.

Ask him what the estimated top sync is on his task notes.

Ask him what the actual reported fault is on Brandenburg, 'bridge tap' at a guess.

Be nosey when he runs his pair quality tests on his JDSU or Exfo, make sure you see the results, all good 'green ticks' no exclamation marks, or worse still red crosses.

With the tester in manual sync mode, you can see all the line stats, make a note of them, you can also see a theoretical max sync rate too. If he sorts this out, there should be an increase in this figure, and the downstream SNR. If all sorted, then he should initiate a DLM reset via his mobile, and that should be that. You will have to get PN to change their setting too, so through put speeds are raised straight off.

Good luck.

Oh, and try not to come across too geeky and 'know it all' it puts their noses right out of joint.

Practice making a decent cuppa

Well that's a lot of info!

Maybe I'll be better to play the dumb card and ask for a reason why the speed is lower than the Wholesale estimates?

Don't really want to [censored] him off by peering over his shoulder the whole time, I know I wouldn't appreciate it

Re the dodgy pair - looking at the picture of the drop wire I took a while ago, it would appear the two pairs are both contained within the same cable? In which case they both will almost certainly be damaged.

Surely if you were building houses and were going to put a backup cable in you'd route it separately? Haha

Edit to add - yes, your second comment is what I was worried about!

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Feb-14 19:24:36)

Surely if you were building houses and were going to put a backup cable in you'd route it separately?

You are using common sense ..... always a mistake.

Don't really want to [censored] him off by peering over his shoulder the whole time, I know I wouldn't appreciate it

Nah, he won't mind, and that way you can see what is and isn't being done.

Do I recall you saying you no longer need any of the other extensions now ? You'll cheer the engineer up if this is the case, it'll be easier for him.

You recall correctly! However I do need the master socket to be where it is now, as I route a LAN connection via a coaxial socket.

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Feb-14 20:37:33)

Then let him know, it will make the repair easier.

The good ones are quite happy to let you see their diagnostic stuff if you ask the right way, out of your genuine interest in the subject. (As long as they have enough time to do the job).

Zarjaz normally expects Newton fig biscuits, not just the cuppa!

(A nice page for you to drool over, Zarjaz!)

Crikey, it's going to take more than cocoa to calm me down for bed now !

Right, engineer has been and left. He said Plusnet has done a sneaky and reported it as a telephone fault rather than a broadband fault to avoid callout fees. Hence he could not (or should I say, would not) give me line stats. However, I did see "9dB" on his diagnostic kit, so I assume that's line noise?

Anyway, let's put it this way - he wasn't happy about the contractor's handy work from the fibre install!

He fixed the bridge tap instantly - it was spurred off form behind the master socket. He was especially pleased when I then told him he could isolate all the extensions

He took a look at the drop wire and was perplexed that it enters the house on an orange pair, and arrives at the master on a blue pair. I did tell him beforehand that the master had been relocated, but he wasn't convinced I was right. But lo and behold when he looks at where the master used to be - a crimp connecting the orange to the blue! He was happy to leave the master where it currently is, as the joint and wire quality were good and the speed lost would be "peanuts" for that distance.

So everything is wired back up. He conducts a line test (QT I think?), which fails on the reverse test citing "crossed legs". No idea what that's all about. I mention that "an engineer" thought the connections to the drop wire were corroded (shoutout to Zarjaz!!!), and indeed, they were. And it turns out that it wasn't necessary to be moved to the second pair of lines after all - when stripped back both pairs worked fine.

He then replaced the grey plastic plating with a BT66. Was very happy with that.

Re-runs the test. Passes on all fronts.

Download is still slow but upload is a couple of meg faster. All to do with IP profile I'm sure. I asked him to reset the IP profile, but as it was not a broadband callout he couldn't - he had already acted beyond his brief.

UPDATE: Line still at 47 mbps. BT Wholesale checker showing IP profile is at 58.08 mbps and Plusnet account settings show "current line speed" as 50.6 mbps. Hopefully the PN setting will match the IP profile soon...

Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Feb-14 12:39:42)

One of the good guys . (Like nearly all of them).

Sounds like that ex-BT guy you got in isn't exactly innocent, yet everyone else is getting the blame!

Did this engineer disconnect your extension wiring then? I don't think this was necessary, but sounds like he was attentive, good stuff.

Will be interesting to see the result once things are reset - have you contacted Plusnet?

Easy, turn wireless off and in a grumpy fashion moan about trying to fix it, run the checks, then turn the wireless back on

Well the ex-BT guy was innocent. I asked him to move the master and he did. It was me not being innocent, knowing that master sockets should only be moved by official Openreach engineers/contractors.

Edit to add: have tried contacting Plusnet but they're clueless. Seem to think that they cannot reset anything as it must be done at the DSLAM. Cannot stand Plusnet tech support. It's not their fault at all but they mostly don't know anything. Think I'll just wait for the line speed to sync with the IP profile by itself.

Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Feb-14 14:46:57)

The reason for this, because your isp Plusnet told BT of a phone line fault rather than broadband fault. That's why the engineer stick to what Plusnet told them.

Glad it's all been sorted.

So everything is wired back up. He conducts a line test (QT I think?), which fails on the reverse test citing "crossed legs". No idea what that's all about. I mention that "an engineer" thought the connections to the drop wire were corroded (shoutout to Zarjaz!!!), and indeed, they were. And it turns out that it wasn't necessary to be moved to the second pair of lines after all - when stripped back both pairs worked fine.

He then replaced the grey plastic plating with a BT66. Was very happy with that.

No idea on the 'reverse test' crossed legs thing was, but it sounds like he cleared an HR as well as sorting out the bridge tap. Nice repair on the BT66.

That should be the end of that.

That should be the end of that, yes, but the connection is still slower then it was before the engineer arrived.

Plusnet are advising to wait for a few days, as the IP profile is still at 58 meg, for the line speed to increase. I asked them to force reset it but they refused as the line has shown instability (hence the engineer visit!).

Ahh well, let's see!

Ring them again and tell them not to be silly. It's an auto-update that frequently fails. Once it misses the first try it will never update again until your IP Profile changes.You've probably spoken to a recent recruit.

I suspected as much. Before I ring back, can I just clarify what I'm actually asking for?

The engineer mentioned a "DSLAM reset", but as soon as you mention 'DSLAM' they'll say they can't do anything, an engineer has to do it.

I mention IP profile and they just keep saying "it's correct". I know it's correct (and its 11 meg faster than my connection!), it's the [insert here] that's incorrect! Haha

The problem is I don't know what the technical term for the [insert here] is!

Plusnet Current line speed. (The clue is in what it calls it in your Member Centre ). Tell them the IP Profile. The PN Cls should be 0.1 lower.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Feb-14 19:41:47)

Thanks for the info. He also said that yesterday the connection dropped eight(!) times. First, I'm not sure I believe that. Unless it happened after 1am I would have noticed. And second, is that a legitimate reason for not being able to reset the current line speed? He told me "current line speed can only be reset on connections that have been stable for at least two days", which sounds like complete BS to me!

@ brookzy phone tech support on option 2 and ask them to updated your ip profile to match your current sync rate. They will do it for u no problem.

If I wanted to update the IP profile I could just leave the modem off for a bit. I want the current line speed updating, not the IP profile.

Bit risky, best leave it alone. Leave your modem alone. Or it will make things worse. It's will pick up in the next 12 hours as Plusnet current line speed will follow BT IP in the next 12 hours.

That contradicts RobertoS when he said that current line speed either automatically updates soon after the IP profile changes or will never change at all.

U can try a soft disconnection on the router side (not the modem) to see if the current line speed has kicked in. (check the current line speed from plusnet member site first)

Edited by adslmax (Thu 20-Feb-14 19:58:50)

Oooohhhh loookey here...

Telephone number:
01788XXXXXX
Phone exchange:
RUGBY
Estimated line speed:
54Mb (Download speed could vary depending on line conditions. Estimates are the maximum speeds that your phone line can support. These speeds are dependent on the package you choose.) - Checked on 2014-01-23 16:45:58
Current line speed:
58.6 Mb

Yet the connection is still running at 47 mbps? Hmmmmmm

Don't touch the modem. Reboot the router .

Do a soft disconnection on the router it will kick in

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Don't touch the modem. Reboot the router .

Correct!

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

That contradicts RobertoS when he said that current line speed either automatically updates soon after the IP profile changes or will never change at all.

More exactly, it updates 2-3 times a day by taking a feed of changes from BT Wholesale. But any change on your line is of course in the first (possibly the second) update. So if the update at Plusnet from that feed fails, after that it isn't going to happen, as it won't be in the ongoing feeds.

Sometimes it doesn't updating (have to do manual by plusnet staff but very rare)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Do a soft disconnection on the router it will kick in

That normally won't work. That's what you do to trigger an IP Profile update on a modem/router , thus causing another line speed update.

Well, 54.6 mbps. Much better.

A lot of work for 7 and a bit meg, but if you're going to do a job, might as well do it properly!

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3320433205

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That normally won't work. That's what you do to trigger an IP Profile update on a modem/router , thus causing another line speed update.

Strange it always work out well on my router but it probably worked ok on my previous ADSL2+

Result!

Needing to reboot the router after a Plusnet Line Speed update is a new one to me. I came across it on these forums a few days ago. It seems to be on FTTC with the separate router, as I've never seen it needed on ADSLx with modem/routers.

Interesting. That's good for router to rebooting ourselves to get the correct line speed as Plusnet sometimes reconnection itself on his own (will this work on the router only or go straight to modem first if Plusnet decide to reconnection itself?) Just curious.

Edited by adslmax (Thu 20-Feb-14 21:39:35)

Thanks for all the advice, guys.

You're confused Max.

When the IP Profile has changed, the Plusnet copy should be updated automatically with a few hours by taking a list of changes on a file from BT Wholesale. If that update fails, there are a couple of ways to get it fixed.

First, but if you've got a good sync you may not want to do it, is to re-sync the modem (or modem/router if a combo). That may trigger a sync change, in either direction, and cause a BT IP Profile change. That should then result in the Plusnet Line Speed being updated within hours to that new value. But there is no guarantee that a second update failure will not occur. Plus the sync could be lower than before. Fail!

Second, you contact support and get them to adjust the Line Speed manually to a fraction below the know BT IP Profile. I regard that as the preferred method.

But!!!

In the case of the OP, the update had not failed. The IP Profile and Plusnet Line Speed were in agreement.

What had happened is that for some reason that appears to occur only on the FTTC modem+router configuration, if the Plusnet Line Speed updates after the router has PPP connected, then the speed allowed stays at the previous value. It seems that a kill and restart of the PPP session doesn't solve it. Only a reboot of the router.

It may not be exactly as I describe in that last paragraph, as it's a new phenomenon that I'm still picking up examples of to analyse.

Your welcome . Enjoy!

It's a DLM reset you are after.

I think he got one didn't he? When the engineer visited.

Snipped from Brookzy's first post after the visit.

I asked him to reset the IP profile, but as it was not a broadband callout he couldn't - he had already acted beyond his brief.

If the issued task is an FTTC repair, then a DLM reset is easy for the engineer, as the 'system' is expecting such requests. If it isn't an FTTC repair task, then the engineer would need to find the circuits OGEA reference number and input this manually. A faff, but do-able. As Brookzy mentions, the engineer wasn't sent out on an FTTC repair.

The DLM reset wipes it all back to the 'out of the box' settings, so sync as fast as possible, and IP profile to match.

Don't forget it's past my bedtime so I forget things like that.

You haven't actually got the best possible speed yet, even now that Plusnet have updated their copy of your line's IP Profile.

The reason is this:

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

BT Wholesale checker showing IP profile is at 58.08 mbps

combined with this (screenshot from a previous message):

Profile Name: 30M-60M Downstream, Interleaving Off - 7.5M-15M Upstream, Interleaving Off

If you convert the IP Profile (of 58.08) to a sync speed, it seems that you are syncing at exactly 60M. But the DLM profile you are on has restricted the top end of your sync speed to 60M.

There is probably more room for your sync speed to increase, but it will only do so if DLM chooses to remove the banding, or if you get the DLM reset.

It normally takes DLM around 2-3 weeks to reduce intervention that involves interleaving & FEC. It probably takes longer to remove banding, if it ever does so.

I would recommend a call to Plusnet again.

Interesting.

The current line speed is now 58, down from 58.6, and speedtest.net results show real speeds of just under 55 mbps.

The second bit of info you quoted was from before the engineer visited and real speed was at 47 mbps. Maybe it has changed now?

If I ring plusnet again, what am I asking them to do?

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

The second bit of info you quoted was from before the engineer visited and real speed was at 47 mbps. Maybe it has changed now?

At that time, you were on the 30M-60M DLM profile (aka "banding"), but you seemed to be syncing lower than the top speed - perhaps primarily because of the wiring issue.

The engineer visit didn't include a DLM reset (which would remove banding) and it is highly unlikely that DLM has removed the banding of its own volition. It is going to be very slow about that change.

The current line speed is now 58, down from 58.6, and speedtest.net results show real speeds of just under 55 mbps.

Those values are still in keeping with an IP Profile of 58.08.

Best idea is to get the IP Profile from running another test on the BT tester, and asking for the further diagnostics. If it is still 58.08, then getting banding removed is the way to go. If it has also reduced, then it would suggest that you're running right on the edge of 60M, and the banding isn't much of a limit.

Can you get the line stats from a modem at all? We can get more confirmation if we know the SNR values that apply to your line - much higher than 6dB, and you've room to grow.

If I ring plusnet again, what am I asking them to do?

I guess you're asking for a DLM reset. As justification, you point out that an engineer has done some fixes to your line, and that you are now synchronising at the maximum speed allowed by the DLM profile in a previous ticket. That *ought* to be a valid justification for allowing a DLM reset, but it might require an engineer appointment.

Right, the IP profile is still 58.08 mbps. So I guess a DLM reset is in order.

I can't get line stats unfortunately. I do have another VDSL modem from Vtesse Networks' now defunct service, but I'm not familiar with it.
BUT
On the device used by the OR engineer, I saw a results page with "9dB" on it. I don't know much more than that I'm afraid.

I think I'll be better off opening a ticket asking for a DLM reset as I'll just be lumped with some novice Saturday-hours call centre worker if I ring up now, who will be fixated on the fact I'm getting my estimated speed.

On the device used by the OR engineer, I saw a results page with "9dB" on it. I don't know much more than that I'm afraid.

Was the 9db on a test after the repairs ? Either way, theres room for improvement, more sync rate to be gained. A DLM reset will get the snr back down to 6db which is the target.

It was after removing the bridge tap but before tidying up the drop wire.

A quick bit of googling has brought up a program called DSLstats. It lists the Plusnet router as compatible, and that it gets data via telnet. Is telnet blocked/not supported on the Openreach modem? Otherwise I would give it a try, to get some stats.

You have to use the unlocked firmware to enable telnet.

Eugh.

Well, if I'm going to ask for a DLM I might as well predict the reasons they'll give for not doing it and prep my responses

Can the DLM be reset by a Plusnet call centre worker? They'll say it must be done by an OR engineer I bet. (Or, as they love to say, their 'suppliers')

Is the DLM reset instant? If it's not I'll just open a ticket.

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

It lists the Plusnet router as compatible, and that it gets data via telnet.

I think it really means that the PN router is compatible when it is being used as a combined ADSL modem/router.

For FTTC, the router is a plain router that knows nothing about the line stats, which are held exclusively in the Openreach modem.

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

Can the DLM be reset by a Plusnet call centre worker? They'll say it must be done by an OR engineer I bet. (Or, as they love to say, their 'suppliers')

Is the DLM reset instant? If it's not I'll just open a ticket.

It must be Openreach who reset DLM, is done centrally, and their operations centre have been known to refuse a request, even from their own engineers.

I'd also say that it has always required an Openreach engineer to request the reset - so it needed an appointment with an engineer too.

However, I have this feeling that I've very recently read of a case where Openreach just did the reset on request from the ISP, and no callout was required. But my memory might be playing tricks on that...

Well in my experience getting Plusnet to do something where there is already formal procedure in place is a pain in the [censored], so getting them to do something that technically only an OR engineer should do will be total pain. Plus don't want another engineer visit. Will wait the 2-3 weeks for DLM to sort itself out automatically methinks

Is the DLM reset instant? If it's not I'll just open a ticket.

Takes about 5 minutes to come through after the request.

I suspect PN can't/won't do it.

I think it's one of those things that if OR central control was told the full story (engineer sent out on wrong type of call, sync at maximum DLM allows etc.), they'd reset it no problem. But the full story would never last through PN's Chinese whispers-style customer service nightmare.

My advice (and my personal preference if I have an issue) is to post on PN's own forum: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/board,3.0....

The staff there are good at dealing with issues that are more complex than the norm.

It still has to get through BT's chinese whispers - I guess that Plusnet's "suppliers" are actually BTW, so the issue has to go through them and onward to Openreach.

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

I think it's one of those things that if OR central control was told the full story (engineer sent out on wrong type of call, sync at maximum DLM allows etc.), they'd reset it no problem.

Exactly what I was about to suggest, but I wouldn't bank on the "no problem".

But the full story would never last through PN's Chinese whispers-style customer service nightmare.

See WWWombat's reply.

Yup. Will post the full story on the forum and see if they can help me out.

Essentially I was going to post that:
- engineer tried to reset DLM but couldn't as was not on an FTTC callout
- sync is currently at max the DLM setting allows meaning likely could go higher
- current speed I'm getting is what the estimate showed, but as a heavy user every meg counts!

Is there anything else I should add? Should I also ask for a current line speed reset at the same time or will a DLM reset do this automatically?

DLM reset require an engineer go to cabinet to reset DLM but I think Openreach charged Plusnet for DLM reset. More likely Plusnet could say No or even say ok, we will do it for you.

Not sure if it still need engineer attend at the property as well?

Brookzy, it easy to unlocked BTO modem. It's pretty straight forward. http://huaweihg612hacking.wordpress.com/about/

If I can do it, you can do it surely. I done mine last Friday.

The DLM reset itself is performed by Openreach in their central operations centre (Bristol?), and all it takes is a phone call from the engineer who attends to your fault.

It doesn't really need anyone to attend anything (home or cabinet), or even to have an appointment made. But Openreach seem to be rather hard-headed about it sometimes.

That's the right stuff to post.

If you can, add the screenshot that you put on here, as that details the DLM profile you were on. And put the BT speedtest results that detail the IP Profile.

You can ask for a reset of PN's IP profile too, but they'll probably wait until after the DLM reset has actually happened - their traffic management system depends on it being right. It ought to happen automatically, but you never know...

Well I would if I had a backup. Mine's an ECI anyway.

If I wanted to know that badly I'd just buy an unlocked one from eBay.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Brookzy, it easy to unlocked BTO modem. It's pretty straight forward. http://huaweihg612hacking.wordpress.com/about/

I think there are newer versions of the firmware somewhere else, but I'm not sure where exactly.

But it is easy to unlock, and useful.

ECI modem is very hard to unlock.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

I think there are newer versions of the firmware somewhere else, but I'm not sure where exactly.

But it is easy to unlock, and useful.

It can be found here: http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13130.0

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

Well I would if I had a backup. Mine's an ECI anyway.

Do you know if your cabinet is ECI or Huawei? Could be worth getting a Huawei one from eBay and unlocking it yourself (I think they're cheaper than pre-unlocked ones) anyway.

I think it's Huawei. Here's a picture.

I mentioned the brand mis-match before but there's conflicting info on whether or not that's an issue.

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

I think it's Huawei. Here's a picture.

Looks like mine.

I mentioned the brand mis-match before but there's conflicting info on whether or not that's an issue.

I think with the latest firmware in the modems its not supposed to matter. The Huawei modems are easy to hack and physically smaller than the ECI.

My parents were given an ECI modem, and I got them a Huawei from eBay and unlocked it, so I could see the stats. Their connection is about 3 weeks old and distance wise the same as mine (in metres) but they get the full 80/20 sync.

It's always the case - the people who don't want/need the max speed always get it! My grandmother has had 100 mbps+ Virgin Media cable connection for a while now, for her occasional weather forecast checking!

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

It's always the case - the people who don't want/need the max speed always get it! My grandmother has had 100 mbps+ Virgin Media cable connection for a while now, for her occasional weather forecast checking!

That's insane when VM sell 30 and 60 services that are equally as good. (If VM cable is any good in your area!).

Well in my area I can't get cable.

And she wants the best she can get! Who am I to tell her she doesn't need it?

Edited by deleted (Sat 22-Feb-14 19:55:01)

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

Well in my area I can't get cable.
And she wants the best she can get! Who am I to tell her she doesn't need it?

LOL - depends how you define "best" - around here VM might have high speeds, but at high latency and often congestion.

Well I've posted on the forum. Tried to strike a balance between being nice and actually demanding a reset. Hopefully I'll get some good news start of next week.

and all it takes is a phone call from the engineer who attends to your fault.

Used to be like this, the engineers can now just do it themselves directly via the call platform.

In reply to a post by Brookzy:

My grandmother has had 100 mbps+ Virgin Media cable connection for a while now, for her occasional weather forecast checking!

Blimey you could swap her house with you. That's is 100% madness - no need 100Mbps for just checking the weather forecaster. She can use her mobile smart phone (3G) pay as you go to check that weather forecast.