Fibre Fail

My BT FTTC speeds are getting increasingly slower. Today they have slumped to 1.4 mbs! Originally (nine months ago) I was getting around 11.0 mbs. Family who live on the same road, though closer to the cabinet are getting 5.3 mbs on standard ADSL. Help?! Whats going on?

Edited by deleted (Sat 30-Jul-16 19:11:09)

Well most likely there is something wrong.

Firstly, describe the physical set up in your property, what's connected where and how?

Does your router supply any diagnostic stats ?

I have BT HH5. No openreach modem as HH5 has built in modem. The computer I'm testing on is plugged directly into the HH5 via cable. I,m not sure how to access my stats.

Would it be worth calling BT?

What speed were you promised at sign up?

I took a copy of my order. 22-32Mps. Not that I thought I would get anywhere near that. This morning Speeds have been very jumpy. apprx 2- 7mps. A couple of times the speedtester failed to complete & entire service has dropped out about three times this morning but then reconnected within a minute or two.

You've not described the what goes where part, please do, as this can be very important.

How many extension sockets are there in the property ? What happens if you connect directly to the test jack on the NTE ?

From memory you need to log on to the router's UI page and navigate to the Troubleshooting.....Helpdesk option

I have the openreach entrance point/initial connection on the wall. Connected directly to this is a line to my cordless phone base, and above that ( from same square wall socket) a connection to my HH5. From HH5. One gig ehternet port runs directly to one computer via ethernet cable. Another gig ethernet runs to a home plug through which I connect other devices with other homeplugs in the house.The homeplugs are not a new addition. I am currently testing my line from the computer directly attatched to the HH5 by ethernet cable. To be honest though, devices conected via home plugs never showed any significant drop. ie if I get 8mps via ethernet cable I would get pretty much that by homeplugs.

Edited by deleted (Sun 31-Jul-16 08:25:49)

So, this 'initial connection', does it have a detachable lower front plate ?

How many other sockets, with or without anything connected, are there in the property ?

Yes it has a detachable bottom front plate. I would normally have two computers and a Tv/ps4 connected via homeplugs. Otherwise usual household regards appliances. I don't usually have a computer connected via Ethernet but do at the moment.

So if you carefully detach the lower plate (two screws then slide gently towards you) now plug the router via its micro filter to the exposed test jack ...

Were you able to get any useful stats from the Hub 5 ? If so, check them again now its synced up in the test Jack. (Throughput speed tests all but useless for diagnosis)

I'm able to get into my hub admin but I dont know where to find the stats from the menu?

If I detach the lower plate both the lower and upper want to come off. This top and bottom section was added when we started fibre. I assume the filter is within this plate. When you talk about the router via its micro filter, what is this exactly?

Yes. The Openreach part with the FTTC socket at the top also needs removing to access the test jack.

As you surmise, it does contain the filter. Re micro filters, you may or may not have one from the FTTC installation, but I expect you have a dangly filter from your ADSLx days, that the phone and router plugged into. To connect easily when using the test jack you use that, though AIUI you can physically connect without it and the FTTC would still work.

Are there any wires attached to either the bottom part or the middle one?

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 31-Jul-16 10:54:48)

If I connect my HH5 directly to the incoming connection (no filter) the internet connection does not work. Leaving the faceplate on, if I switch the top lead to phone and bottom to HH5, my phone works but again no internet connection. I will try to find an old filter.

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/ shows an Openreach faceplate and how the bottom half comes off.

When the socket is in the state http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/images/test-s... are you saying you get no broadband when connected to the socket marked with the black arrow?

What lead are you using? Generally people use a microfilter at that point to do the plug conversion.

Correct. I get no internet connection when the HH5 is connected directly to the "black arrow " socket"., even when both plates are removed. I am not using a micro filter though. The lead is the lead that otherwise connects my phone to this socket- ie rectangular connection to the socket and the smaller more squarish to my broadband dsl connection on the HH5.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

Correct. I get no internet connection when the HH5 is connected directly to the "black arrow " socket"., even when both plates are removed. I am not using a micro filter though. The lead is the lead that otherwise connects my phone to this socket- ie rectangular connection to the socket and the smaller more squarish to my broadband dsl connection on the HH5.

So you are not using the ISP provided cabling?

Is your cable like this at both ends

Option 1

World of Data - 10m ADSL Cable WHITE - High Quality (100% Copper wire) - Gold Plated Contact Pins - High Speed Internet Broadband - Router or Modem to RJ11 Phone Socket or Microfilter - White https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0039OBGBG/ref=cm_sw_r_c...

Or option 2

Storm&Lighthouse 5m RJ11 to BT Modem Cable Lead - Sky Box / Phone Plug / BT Socket (4PIN CROSSOVER) http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B013T7J5Q0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp...

If option 2 - where did this cable come from? It would have not been provided by the ISP.


Second question and very important

Do you have a sky box, a landline telephone, a fax machine or any other device that connects to the phone line? How do these connect - confirm if they all have a filter before they go into the phone socket? If no filter is used please also confirm.

Final question

How many sockets do you have in the home?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 31-Jul-16 12:58:16)

When the openreach plate is all together. Top connection running from face-plate to HH5 has the option one cable, as those are the connections. The bottom cable is option two. The bottom cable goes from the face-plate to the phone base. Not sure where the cables came from. When the face-plate is removed and I plug into the black arrow socket I'm using the option two cable that is otherwise connecting the phone to the face-plate. Using this cable connected to my phone the phone works fine. Connect it to HH5 , the hub just flashes orange. Put the face-plate back together with both cables plugged in ,option one cable going to HH5 and option two to my phone, both phone and internet running.
I have 20+ electrical sockets in the house though not all used. When I first got FTTC speeds where around 12Mps, but has gradually got less and less, to the point where FTTC is now slower than what I was getting when I was on ADSL.

Edited by deleted (Sun 31-Jul-16 13:47:22)

You have 20+ electrical sockets or 20+ telephone sockets? Very different.

When you connect to the test socket - you need to use a filter, not change the cable to the hh5.

The filter will have been provided by your ISP with the HomeHub delivery.

Can you get stats for us

Navigate to

http://bthomehub.home

From the top Menu
> Troubleshooting
> Helpdesk

Default admin password is on the card on the back of the hub.
If this is the 1st time you have been to the Hub manager you will have to change & set your admin password.

Stats we need are line attenuation, noise margin, etc

Something similar to


6. Data rate: 2696 / 18000
7. Maximum data rate: 3295 / 30699
8. Noise margin: 6.5 / 16.9
9. Line attenuation: 31.0 / 29.0
10. Signal attenuation: 30.4 / 25.4
11. Data sent/received: 246.5 MB / 5.3 GB

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 31-Jul-16 14:39:21)

Stats for my normal set up below.

6. Data rate: 863 / 7553
7. Maximum data rate: 1069 / 9622
8. Noise margin: 7.1 / 8.5
9. Line attenuation: 17.4 / 39.4
10. Signal attenuation: 17.4 / 30.6
11. Data sent/received: 168.8 MB / 1.6 GB

I connected HH% directly to test socket with an adsl filter but again, HH5 failed to connect to the net. Just flashing orange. It then took some time until it reconnected once I reverted back to normal.I had to turn thr hub off for a while.

I have three further phone sockets not including the main one. They are not wired up to face-plates, just the group of wires in the white sheath cut with a little length so they can be wired in the future. The electrician said he did not wire these up. I'm not sure if that means from the central hub or just the final face-plates.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

When the openreach plate is all together. Top connection running from face-plate to HH5 has the option one cable, as those are the connections. The bottom cable is option two. The bottom cable goes from the face-plate to the phone base. Not sure where the cables came from.

That's fine and correct.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

When the face-plate is removed and I plug into the black arrow socket I'm using the option two cable that is otherwise connecting the phone to the face-plate. Using this cable connected to my phone the phone works fine.

This is also fine and correct.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

Connect it to HH5 , the hub just flashes orange. Put the face-plate back together with both cables plugged in ,option one cable going to HH5 and option two to my phone, both phone and internet running.

You only need to remove the first face plate (Phone Face Plate) not the middle one (xDSL Face Plate), using the cable listed as option 2 will never work, I "think" its wired up different (not tried it myself).

You should have the following types of face and back plate(s), if you just carefully remove the phone face plate leaving the xDSL Filter Face Plate fitted, you can plug the cable listed as option 1 into the top socket and connect the other end to the HH5.

Face and Back Plates

Now if you have a combined xDSL and phone faceplate, carefully remove it and connect an xDSL Micro filter to the test socket (black arrow) and use the option 1 cable to connect to your HH5 to the micro filter.

Following this your HH5 should work.

Paul

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

I connected HH% directly to test socket with an adsl filter but again, HH5 failed to connect to the net. Just flashing orange.

When you say test socket, you are removing the two front faceplates (Phone and xDSL Filter) aren't you, if the xDSL Face Plate is still fitted the test socket will never work, its already filtered out the dsl line at that point.

Take another look at the face and back plates in the image below that you should have.
NTE5a Back and Face Plates

Once you have removed the two piggy backed face plates it should look something like the Master Socket Back Plate in my image above, use that test socket and it will work.

Paul

Yes , I am removing both frontplates. The xDSL faceplate I have does not have MK3 written on it but is otherwise the same. the filter I am using is an ADSL filter not xDSL. Is there a difference. I never had an xDSL filter. I only ever had an ADSL filter when I was on ADSL.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

Yes , I am removing both frontplates. The xDSL faceplate I have does not have MK3 written on it but is otherwise the same. the filter I am using is an ADSL filter not xDSL. Is there a difference. I never had an xDSL filter. I only ever had an ADSL filter when I was on ADSL.

When we say xDSL it means VDSL and ADSL, but they are the same filter more or less.

So you have the filter connected to the master test socket, now use that option 1 cable and connect it to the filter and connect the other end of that cable to the HH5.

Paul

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Do you have a sky box, a landline telephone, a fax machine or any other device that connects to the phone line?

include house alarm in this too

Yes. When I do this HH% just flashes orange.

I have the phone line split from the master socket via the usual connections. ie top of filter faceplate which allows line to go to HH5 bottom of faceplate allows line to connect to phone command base. I have a phone capable alarm but it is not connected. I'm counting on the dogs to rip an intruder to shreds No other devices/ lines connected. I do have three other phone sockets. These are lines are dead ends not even attatched to faceplates and I'm not sure if the electrician even wired them at the master socket.

Still awaiting stats. Pointless doing much until we see those.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

Yes. When I do this HH% just flashes orange.

Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but if it works when you put in cable option 1 (RJ11 to RJ11 cable) into the dsl faceplate to the HH5 when its all connected up then its either your microfilter is broken or you are doing it all wrong.

My guesses are its the micro filter that is at fault, because if it all works fine when using the dsl face plate then the test socket inside is working fine, leaving the issue to the micro filter.

So if you have any other micro filters try one of those.

Paul

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

I have the phone line split from the master socket via the usual connections. ie top of filter faceplate which allows line to go to HH5 bottom of faceplate allows line to connect to phone command base.

Well the line should come into your building/home "normally" goes into a BT80 (small junction box) then into your NTE5A Master Socket and connects to the back plate, and all internal phone extensions i.e. to your phone base etc is normally wired internally to the Phone Face Plate and the data extension (for modem/router etc) is normally connected to the 2 pin IDC connector inside on the xDSL Filter Face Plate.

However you can connect your phone base to the Phone Face Plate using its BT431A connector and the HH5 to its RJ11 Socket on the xDSL Face Plate.

A question, when you remove the Phone Face Plate, is there any wires connected to it, if there is then you have an extension connected to it.?

Paul

Yes there is no reason the broadband should not filter in the test socket with the connection they have used, of course if a phone call came in it would kick the broadband offline.

That said I thought might be worth trying with a filter and rj11 cable just to be sure.

If that fails, it sounds to me, like you are implying, that the master may not be a master at all - and the extension wiring may just connect into the faceplate terminals 2 and 5, with no cabling going into the back of the nte5 terminals A and B.

I have seen kelly comms do this at a friends house before, as they had their router located on the last extension in the line, just changed it to a NTE5 and didn't even wire it up right.

I posted them last page.

I took the microfilter from friends that is working fine.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

I took the microfilter from friends that is working fine.

Ah, so your friends micro filter works fine in the test socket?

Paul

Right got the stats.

Ok not great.

I am really concerned that the line does not work from the test socket.

Can you reply to paulkirbys messages as I want to ask the exact same things?

Specifically
"A question, when you remove the Phone Face Plate, is there any wires connected to it, if there is then you have an extension connected to it.?

Paul"

Another question - can you see where the phone line enters the property, is it near to the socket you are using?

As we hear more and more it sounds like:
1) cowboy job
2) this may not be the master after all

A question, why did the builder connect the phone sockets and not BT?

A builder legally cannot be touching the BT cabling, and any good builder should be aware of that, did the builder fit the sockets or BT? A builder can install an extension internally only.

With a particular focus on this master socket, did BT install it or the builder?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 31-Jul-16 22:43:16)

No. It works fine plugged into a phone socket. Thats where I took it from. I assumed if it works in a regular socket then there should be no reason why it wouldn't work in the master test socket. They have BT adsl. As an aside why then when my fibre was installed, that the new faceplate was added. If an adsl filter splitter works why would openreach bother putting an extra faceplate
Just so no-one gets confused when I'm talking about the faceplates its what I am looking at is exactly what MrSaffron posted on page 2..

I'll clarify further, sorry, it works fine in my friends phone socket to split the ADSL and phone. I did not test it in their master socket, as stated I assumed if it was working it was working. Using this adsl filter in MY master/test socket my HH5 does not connect to the internet. It just flashes orange. If I reconnect the faceplate/s back together and rcoonect eveything it works again. Though as posted HH5 was not happy to start with. I had to turn it off for a while and then back on.

It does of course matter whether it is the true master or not, but as it is clearly an NTE5 with interstitial VDSL filter, and works when assembled, for the OP not to get a connection when supposedly wiring to the true test socket then he is not wiring correctly.

It is impossible for the full assembly to work, even at degraded speeds, and the test socket not to work.

The builder can do all the internal wiring - I don't think it has been suggested they have touched the external. AIUI they can even install the NTE5 at build time. It is simply the incoming cabling to it that has to be installed by Openreach. (Oh!! - I wonder if there is an external NTE?)

I also wonder if a builder('s electrician) has done the internal wiring what cables were used and whether it was correctly done. The OP says he doesn't even know if the extension sockets were wired to the master. That could only mean there are no wires attached to the NTE5A faceplate.

I'm convinced the OP is not understanding the sometimes conflicting information he is getting here. One minute he is being told to leave the VDSL2 filter in place after removing the phone faceplate, the next to remove the filter as well. I'm not sure he isn't reading Andrew's "black arrow" socket as the lower socket of the VDSL2 filter plate.

Re plugging straight into the test socket with no filter at all, using a DSL cable (option 1 earlier) not the phone connecting cable (option 2) there would be no problem with incoming phone calls upsetting the broadband. The broadband supply is unfiltered so contains both broadband and phone traffic. It is the phone socket of the filter that has the DSL removed.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 31-Jul-16 23:07:02)

It does of course matter whether it is the true master or not, but as it is clearly an NTE5 with interstitial VDSL filter, and works when assembled, for the OP not to get a connection when supposedly wiring to the true test socket then he is not wiring correctly.

I do agree with you, but we have to factor in that now, in the test socket:
1) The op has tired using a BT431A cable - which should sync just fine
2) Has tried with a filter and RJ11 cable - which also failed

It is impossible for the full assembly to work, even at degraded speeds, and the test socket not to work.

I have never tested this to know if this is possible, but could the socket be wired up incorrectly, IE cabling not going into the back terminals A & B, but into the unfiltered data extension part instead? Would this yield a sync to the faceplate but not the test socket?

The builder can do all the internal wiring - I don't think it has been suggested they have touched the external. AIUI they can even install the NTE5 at build time. It is simply the incoming cabling to it that has to be installed by Openreach. (Oh!! - I wonder if there is an external NTE?)

Agreed.

I also wonder if a builder('s electrician) has done the internal wiring what cables were used and whether it was correctly done. The OP says he doesn't even know if the extension sockets were wired to the master. That could only mean there are no wires attached to the NTE5A faceplate.

Yep

I'm convinced the OP is not understanding the sometimes conflicting information he is getting here. One minute he is being told to leave the VDSL2 filter in place after removing the phone faceplate, the next to remove the filter as well. I'm not sure he isn't reading Andrew's "black arrow" socket as the lower socket of the VDSL2 filter plate.

I thought this, but the op confirms multiple times that they have removed both parts to get to the socket.

Re plugging straight into the test socket with no filter at all, using a DSL cable (option 1 earlier) not the phone connecting cable (option 2) there would be no problem with incoming phone calls upsetting the broadband. The broadband supply is unfiltered so contains both broadband and phone traffic. It is the phone socket of the filter that has the DSL removed.

The upsetting of broadband referred to using the telephone cable, BT431A type cable, in the test socket. That is, connecting the modem, without using any filter what-so-ever. Here, if the phone rang, it would cause issues.

Ok, my memory was correct but, just so as not to give any misinformation I pulled the entire face plates off and examined the connection. BT came and connected the line. I am down a 200m lane. When I booked the connection I could not convince the guy from india that the BT engineer will not turn up with a shovel, dig a 200m trench for me and lay the cable!! I contacted openreach directly (getting their number via dubious internet sources) they weren't at all pleased but did agree with my assessment. Mysteriously 200m of cable arrived at my door. I had the builder lay this. It was grey plastic coated, steel reinforced then a black plastic coating of multiple wires brown, green, white, blue, orange. It is this that goes directly to the socket as pictured in MrSaffrons link. This is the line that goes up the lane and is connected to BTs lines,(by BT/openreach?) From this mass of coloured wires from within this sheath one single blue wire is connected to the A terminal and one single white wire is connected to the B terminal at the back of the very first plate. No other wires are connected to anything.

By "the very first plate" do you mean the one that screws to the wall? Then the top two-socket plate plugs into that, and the small bottom faceplate plugs into bottom socket of the two-socket one? Two long screws going through both into the very first plate?

When you don't get the broadband to connect, just the flashing orange from the Home Hub, is it the socket on that very first plate you are using?

As well as the Home Hub, have you got a white box that goes between the Home Hub and the top socket? The label on the underneath will say HG612 or ECI.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 01-Aug-16 01:41:52)

In the twilight world of deciphering what is going on, but sounds like maybe some odd wiring arrangement that may look ok to the untrained eye but if on site would become clear.

The faceplate with the RJ11 and Phone sockets on it when you remove that is there any wiring connected to it? If so can you get a picture of it, and a long shot while the faceplate is unplugged does the router sync up (working on the guess that someone has wired the incoming line to A/B on the faceplate). If this is the case it may not be causing problems, but I'd not guarantee that statement.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The faceplate with the RJ11 and Phone sockets on it when you remove that is there any wiring connected to it? If so can you get a picture of it, and a long shot while the faceplate is unplugged does the router sync up (working on the guess that someone has wired the incoming line to A/B on the faceplate). If this is the case it may not be causing problems, but I'd not guarantee that statement.

I see where you are going with this, that would also give the exact same symptoms as what he said.

I didn't even think of that due to I think the OP said it was installed by an engineer, not too sure if it was a BT Engineer or an average Joe Engineer.

Paul

Yes by first i mean the one that screws to the wall. The outside line comes directly to this fist plate and a sigle blue wire attavhed to A and single white wire is attached to the B. On top of this is a second plate that has the extra connection for HH5 on top. It does not have any wires attached. It simply slots onto the first one. Finally there is a rectangular cover/plate that goes over the lower section of the second plate. This has the 5,3,2 connections at the back. Again their are no wires attached to this plate at all. It slots over and is then screwed in.
I have been able to get internet from the master socket.
I have not done anything different to what you ask or I confirmed in previous posts except that I switched off my HH5 for around 40min. It did flash orange for a while, then solid but then connected. This connection is to the First faceplate ( the one touching the wall) with the other two plates that go on top removed. So I am in the master socket. Speed test show same similar speeds. I will give my stats below. First set is this morning with normal set up(ie all faceplates put on and no adsl filter). Second set of stats is faceplates barr the first removed, line going to test socket with adsl filter in place.
1) Usual set up.
6. Data rate: 800 / 6101
7. Maximum data rate: 1153 / 9460
8. Noise margin: 10.9 / 12.0
9. Line attenuation: 17.2 / 39.2
10. Signal attenuation: 17.2 / 30.5
11. Data sent/received: 55.9 MB / 858.1 MB

2) To master socket only with ADSL filter in place.
6. Data rate: 801 / 6101
7. Maximum data rate: 1153 / 9629
8. Noise margin: 10.9 / 12.1
9. Line attenuation: 17.4 / 39.5
10. Signal attenuation: 17.4 / 30.8
11. Data sent/received: 4.0 MB / 22.6 MB

To the untrained eye they appear very similar.

That's great . Now we are clear.

Yes, the stats are almost identical.

Given what you say about no wires being attached anywhere other than the Openreach connection from outside, please could you do another test for us? It may seem pointless but I assure you it could be very important.

What I'd like you to do is take your phone to any other phone socket in the house and see if it works plugged into that. If it doesn't then I would be surprised. If it does, then there is a big wiring cockup.

Edit - oops! You say the sockets aren't wired up. Is there a bunch of wires similar to what you describe also visible inside the master socket rear assembly when the two outer plates are removed?

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 01-Aug-16 13:02:53)

Will do, however, some of the telephone connections are not what you would call connections. They do not have a faceplate attached. Still just loose wires out of the tube from the plaster!

Ah - if there is one that is wired up, please use that .

Yes there are lots of wires. Blue, brown, orange, white with various colours marks on them etc. They are protruding from the main cable coming into the house. I do have one telephone point with a face plate. I unscrewed it from the wall to see if it was actually wired up and it is. Also I have a point at my alarm. With HH5 connected to master socket with splitter these lines/telephone points do not work. As I stated before, all other points x2 don't even have a faceplate for me to test.

Can you get pictures of the master socket, just the faceplate and up to the test socket.

You can use an image upload site and share a link here.

I just want to be sure.

Master socket with wiring

Here is a photo. The white cable with wires go to the rest of the house. None of these wires are connected to anything.
The only wires connected to anything are the blue and white wires coming from the outside cable, they connected to A&B on the master socket respectfully..

Here is another photo.

Master socket with wiring.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

Yes there are lots of wires. Blue, brown, orange, white with various colours marks on them etc. They are protruding from the main cable coming into the house. I do have one telephone point with a face plate. I unscrewed it from the wall to see if it was actually wired up and it is. Also I have a point at my alarm. With HH5 connected to master socket with splitter these lines/telephone points do not work. As I stated before, all other points x2 don't even have a faceplate for me to test.

I struck out part of my earlier post when I thought you have no extensions wired up. Please can you try the phone in the one that is wired and has a faceplate, as originally requested ?

Ok, that section of the master is BT property, so do not touch that again, but really useful to see it.

It is wired correctly, this means the test socket should be working just fine. Are you able to try again with a different filter? BT provide 2 with the HH5 if I remember correctly.

The test socket, to clarify, is the socket connected to this faceplate

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oe7NdrOB3JBKJp...

You see the rectangular socket on the otherside of this...

Now what does concern me is the significant amount of rusting on the master socket backplate, this does suggest water is getting into the socket which could be the cause of slowdowns.

I did get the filter to work in the master socket. Only thing I did different to allthe other times was turning my hub off for 40min before retesting.

I did test the phone in the telephone point with the faceplate. This was when HH5 was connected visa adsl filter to main socket. (I also checked the telephone point was wired at the back and it is) Telephone would not ring out or receive calls. This makes sense as there is nothing attached to the master socket/faceplate layers other than the two wires from the outside line.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Now what does concern me is the significant amount of rusting on the master socket backplate, this does suggest water is getting into the socket which could be the cause of slowdowns.

Its not rust its plaster!

Ok the setup seems ok. Would ADSL be faster for you than VDSL perhaps?

At current you are sycning at around 7.5Mbps which isn't too bad.

Just to check, between the master and the HH5 there is not a long extension cable?

No long cable. Here is a link to the graph of my speed tests. The trend unfortunately is downward. Also BT FTTC is becomming less reliable and at times I get really low speeds, less than 2mps. Yet my set up has not changed from when I was getting almost 12mps.

Graph of ever decreasing speeds

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

Yet my set up has not changed

Well I should clarify, I have changed provider BT to Plusnet to BT again, and also no longer have the openreach white FTTC modem as I now have HH5 with it built in. However none of these changes made any difference at the time. When I changed provider I got the same speeds as I was getting with the other. As can be seen from the graph my speed reduction has been gradual decline with a few waterfall moments. Just lately my speeds seem to be dropping again eg today I have been getting around 5mps. This would be consistent with my ever decreasing graph!

Do you still have the white OR modem?

If so try using that. If you have a different router as well try both routers with the OR modem.

Stats from both would be useful.

You could also try a PC direct into the OR Modem but will not be able to get stats BUT can do a speedtest on here.

Sometimes the Homehubs fail over time ( all routers do eventually as does all other electronic kit). Your slow loss of speed may reflect this.

I've only had HH5 over the last year. Speeds have gradually been declining for a few years. Power surge killed my opreach (white box) modem. Saved HH5 though .

Accepting that it is plaster, I wonder if it is blocking connection physically; or through corrosion products?

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Aug-16 17:56:24)

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

I did test the phone in the telephone point with the faceplate. This was when HH5 was connected visa adsl filter to main socket. (I also checked the telephone point was wired at the back and it is) Telephone would not ring out or receive calls. This makes sense as there is nothing attached to the master socket/faceplate layers other than the two wires from the outside line.

That's great, in relation to what I was worried about. I was checking that you don't have what is called "star wiring", where that particular extension was fed from a junction box between where the incoming cable reaches the house and the master socket . That causes havoc on FTTC. (Bad enough on ADSLx).

Can you just confirm that dead extension is a normal socket with a single full faceplate? Not a second master which has the small bottom half detachable. It doesn't matter at the moment but worth knowing in case it is ever connected in, as having two masters on the same line is bad news.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Can you just confirm that dead extension is a normal socket with a single full faceplate

Yes just a standard single faceplate. There is also a yellowy box on the board beneath the alarm. Unscrewing it it seems to be wired into the alarm. My electrician said he had not connected this but just wired in case I decided to use this function. It is a box as it is not recessed into the wall ie mounted on a board. It too is a single socket faceplate So I believe it is wired into the alarm but not connected to the master. I tested a phone in this and result was the same as the other single faceplate, no incoming or outgoing calls. In any case, the only wires coming from the single outside line that are attached to anything are the blue and white wires to the master socket.

Here is a graph of my 2012 -2013 FTTC speeds.

2012 -2013 FTTC speeds graph.

Now here is my 2013 to present.

2013- present FTTC speed graph

My question is, would it be normal or common to see this sort of speed loss?

My concerns are similar to Sir_Jaspers in his current post. Sir_Jaspers post
Except a speed dropping from 12 to 5 is very noticable, and does effect usability, not to mention when speeds are even lower or it dropping out all too often.

In reply to a post by Speedchaser:

My concerns are similar to Sir_Jaspers in his current post. Sir_Jaspers post
Except a speed dropping from 12 to 5 is very noticable, and does effect usability, not to mention when speeds are even lower or it dropping out all too often.

The other post is almost certainly going to be a combination of
1) Wireless used for speedtests
2) Increase in crosstalk due to increased take up of fibre
3) Possibly a poor internal setup

In your case, I would say, yes, overtime it is normal for FTTC to slow down, this is the nature of the technology. The more the takeup, the increasing likelihood of crosstalk.

If you go here and check your phone number, what does it say?
https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s...

Its saying VDSL range clean 10.1 -5.8. Interupted 7.9 - 2.5. If this is my expected speeds it is a lot less than less than a year ago BT quoting 22-32 mps! The thing is if it gets any slower would be better going back to adsl? That would be ironic and quite moronic regards BT/ OPENREACH.

Can you copy and paste the full results?

Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

WBC FTTC Availability Date

WBC SOGEA Availability Date

Left in Jumper

High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 10.1 5.8 1.2 0.8 -- Available -- --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 7.9 2.5 1.1 0.6 -- Available -- --
ADSL Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date


Left in Jumper

ADSL Max Up to 3.5 -- 2.5 to 6.5 Available -- --
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available -- --
Other Offerings




Availability Date



VDSL Multicast -- -- -- Available -- --
For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.


Would having BT reset the first ten day usage period help?

That means that basically without crosstalk you could expect around 10Mbps.

With crosstalk, which is likely, speeds of 7.9 to 2.5Mbps.

Crosstalk usually hits at once, in my experience, so chances are 15 was without and 7.5 is with. Hopefully it'll stay around that speed.

Regarding 10 day training, no such thing on FTTC, that's all just CS lies. DLM runs all of the time on the line, it is kind of always in training, and will make adjustments to speed as and when it is required. This can work both ways, faster and slower.

What ADSL2+ speeds were you getting? It suggests 2.5 to 6.5 and often can be conservative?

ADSL2+ might give you a more stable speed, which does not vary often.

You mention BT laid the cabling for 200m down the drive and installed FTTC, did you never try bog standard broadband at this address?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 02-Aug-16 14:30:21)

The builder laid the cable. Yes I was on standard ADSL which was by memeory around 6-7mps. So I jumped at FTTC, actually the deal BT had on at the time made FTTC slightly cheaper anyway. Speeds started at 12mps which was a great improvment. However they have slowly droped over the past three years as per graph shows. Also I have had not frequent but annoying regular drop outs of connection and some days speeds are so slow 1-2 mps.

Graph of decreasing speeds on FTTC.

Would it be right or wrong to assume if I was on normal ADSL over this time I would see a corresponding drop? Friends live down the road, mayby a mile closer to the cabinet and they get 5-6mps on bog standard ADSL.

ADSL does not suffer from cross talk to the same extent as VDSL2, due to the different frequencies used.

So yes ADSL may be a better choice for you. If you private message your postcode I will look at what our pessimistic estimate is, i.e. our checker is using a worst case cross talk scenario.

Would it be right or wrong to assume if I was on normal ADSL over this time I would see a corresponding drop? Friends live down the road, mayby a mile closer to the cabinet and they get 5-6mps on bog standard ADSL.

No, it is very different, comparing apples with oranges. Your setup may not have been optimised on ADSL, so actually it may outperform. Take up MrSaffron's offer

It is very unlikely the ADSL speed would be worse now.

It was grey plastic coated, steel reinforced then a black plastic coating of multiple wires brown, green, white, blue, orange.

That's an armoured 5 pair cable you are describing.

The builder kinked this when laying it though phone and internet worked from begining. As it is armoured it should be ok with the kink?

Is it visible? Can you upload a photo somewhere please?

Sorry, the cable was buried six years ago! So it hasn't prevented anything from working but the cable was turned back on itself and kinked about as much as could physically be possible. I complained at the time but the builder shrugged it off and buried it anyway. It was about this point I started to lose faith in our builder. My thinking at the time was a digital signal will work or not and if it didn't work. Would this be right?

ADSL FTTC etc is an analog signal that runs at a high frequency. Nothing digital about it. It could have had an impact.

Is the cable still like this ie bent to max?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sat 06-Aug-16 11:29:27)

It should be fine, it's robust old stuff, and copper inside, so flexible where it counts.

Bumping my own thread. Today things have got bad again. Phone is as if it is engaged to people trying to call in and I cant ring out with it. There is a background static on the line as if a call is stil connected/ no ring tone. Also the internet FTTC is constantly connecting and disconnecting. It may be connected for 2-5mins then down for 10-30min then reconnects agsin for a few min before again going down. I tried the BT help line and it did an automated check on the line which told me there was no fault found. It then offered an engineer visit warning that I would be caharged £129 if the fault was with any of the equiptment or line on my property. I hung up at this point as is there anything I should try or do before getting an engineer out?.