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Never been one for making do with rubbish routers, offered for free or cheap. With AASIP, in part, because I prefer to use my own equipment. After a month and a half of wrangling, I finally have my CSP where I want it. Awaiting installation of the ONT.
How good are the OR ONT? I've never had any half decent equipment for "free". I am wondering if there is any alternative. What happens if it goes faulty? It's different from a master socket, because there's a lot more to go wrong. I suppose it's more like the box I had for ISDN.
I've tended to go for Heyes, US Robotics, Asus and 3Com, over the years. Around 5 or 6 yrs ago, I bought my current router in anticipation of FTTC. I expected to buy a good VDSL modem when the time came. To tide me over, I was using cheap ADSL modems in bridge mode. However I have had a lot of problems with these cheap modems. I'm actually ending up with FTTP. Does anyone know who makes the ONTs for OR? Does any of my £100 I've paid go towards the ONT, or will all of that go to AASIP?
Edited by deleted (Sat 10-Feb-18 14:09:27)
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The ONT is manufactured by Huawei. The service is locked to the serial number of the ONT. It cannot be changed unfortunately.
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Why �unfortunately� ? Not come across a single one be faulty in 5 years.
Less experience of the new single port version, only fitted 5 of them so far.
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The ONT is provided by Openreach, not your ISP. Openreach provision the ONT to work on their network and it cannot be substituted (The openreach network has to be configured to expect a particular ONT on a particular port at the aggregation node, and the ONT to take your particular stream from the 32 available on that port, etc etc...)
The ISP will provide a router to plug into the ONT that you can most likely choose to use or not. The router uses PPPoE to communicate with the ONT.
My FTTP ISP is BT and I choose to use an EdgeRouter and UniFi APs in place of the provided Smart Hub, and connect the EdgeRouter to the Openreach provided ONT.
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I've chosen not to buy a router from my ISP. I've been very happy with my Asus router. I understand that the ONT will effectively replace my ADSL modem. I will just have a PPPoE bridge to the ONT instead of one to my ADSL modem. The Edge router does look considerably more robust than my Asus. I have been considering an additional router or access point upstairs, connected via a powerline adapter, just to improve signal upstairs for the kids phones and tablets. I currently have one PC upstairs, connected to my Asus router via Powerline adapter and it seems to work fine. I was mainly just wondering about alternatives to the ONT. But if the Huewei is a good piece of equipment there is no need. If it's not possible to substitute it, then it's all academic anyway. The one major advantage to owning my own ONT, regardless of how good or bad the huewei is, would be that if there were any problem with it, I wouldn't have to go through BTW/OR. They are as infuriating as ever and I prefer to have as little to do with them as possible, to preserve my sanity.
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It isn't impossible that in a few years time there could be an equivalent to 'wires-only' for fibre, as has happened for ADSL and FTTC previously, but for now the demarcation point is the ethernet socket on the HG8240/HG8110 NTE.
There are ONTs around such as the Mikrotik SFP ONU and Ubiquiti UF-Nano which support the relevant standards (GPON OMCI, ITU G.984), but it would need new provisioning processes developed to supply the device serial number to Openreach in order to be provisioned - this may be enough to stop it happening.
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It isn't impossible that in a few years time there could be an equivalent to 'wires-only' for fibre, as has happened for ADSL and FTTC previously, but for now the demarcation point is the ethernet socket on the HG8240/HG8110 NTE.
There are ONTs around such as the Mikrotik SFP ONU and Ubiquiti UF-Nano which support the relevant standards (GPON OMCI, ITU G.984), but it would need new provisioning processes developed to supply the device serial number to Openreach in order to be provisioned - this may be enough to stop it happening.
Very interesting! I suppose it's still pretty early days for FTTP. Although, BT stuff doesn't tend to change much. I've been having trouble with an old "Telecom" junction box on and off. They refused to change it. I've still got earth wires, from the old party lines. But you never know. I'll check in two or three years if anything is available.
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Think of the ONT as the master socket in the pstn world, the RJ45 port marks the demarcation between openreach and the customer, obviously the ONT does more & is an active device rather than passive.
For what it's worth (based on my experience of a single port ONT for our FTTP service) unless openreach move to a model of terminating the fibre link to an outlet that you can then connect an ONT to via a fibre patch cable encouraging use of anything other than the current situation would be asking for trouble, damaged fibre cable etc from people not respecting bend radius's etc..
I don't see an issue to be honest, the back haul from your property to the local exchange should be 100% (ignoring power cuts) if it's not we don't have the issues the a/VDSL has wrt to cross talk, loose connections etc.. so getting it resolved should be straightforward (that said being able to get stats from the ONT would be handy)
I also use an ERL with FTTP, works very well.
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.... but that earth wire isn�t connected to your wiring is it ?
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I know of no company anywhere that operates an FTTP network as Openreach do and allow customers to bring their own hardware. Verizon don't. AT&T don't. Google don't. KCom don't. KPN don't. You get the idea.
This only viably works when either the fibre is point to point, which this isn't, or when the FTTP is in turn running over PPP, in which case restrictions to service speed can be made there.
Could also do it if there were ONTs available that, like cable modems, were locked down, had secured firmware and were controlled by the operator, not the user.
If you're okay with Openreach controlling your device and you're willing to purchase from a set list it's very unlikely but you might be able to bring your own one day.
Or you could just use kit Openreach provide which is just fine and capable of delivering a symmetrical gigabit.
Edited by deleted (Sun 11-Feb-18 01:26:41)
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The ONTs are good and there will be no issues.
Also ISP kit is getting better and better, we are starting to see very stable devices e.g. the BT SmartHub, Sky Q Hub and TalkTalk D-Link 3782 all very solid performers with lengthy uptimes reported. It is very common to see users on the Sky Forums posting stats with uptimes of 200 days and higher. Some of the smaller players e.g. Vodafone have not got it right just yet (constant complaints).
RE the Asus, good shout - stick to what works well for you 
Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 11-Feb-18 01:28:11)
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Looked at the ONTs mentioned. While looking, I stumbled across GPON routers by D Link and TP Link. I wouldn't consider either of them to be much of an upgrade, but does seem to show things may be moving in that direction. What I hear everybody here saying is, don't bother or, at least, don't bother just yet but possibly in the future.
Wrt my earth wiring, I have three cables coming out of my junction box. One of them looks more like speaker wire to me. Not the modern sort we use for hifi, just the skinny, old stuff. One goes to my master socket, but is stretched out from the wall between cable clips. The second one goes on a long run round the houses, with connecting blocks. This is because it has been moved to come via next doors apex window, ever since new height restrictions. The third wire, which has two cores, disappeares into the render of the house. When you look at the front of the house, there are actually various wires. In one place, two appear to join together. Some parts are buried deeper than others. Some parts are just covered in paint or pebble dash. I've been told not to worry about them. I've considered snipping the two core that makes it all the way to my junction box. Even with fibre, I could do without these wires bringing in any extra interference. We've got really bad REIN interference on our street but the owner of the pv panels refused to address the problem. One of my neighbours has a field full of them. I think this two core is either power, or for an external bell. Anyway, they've identified one of the wires as an earth. They won't touch any of it. I've been told, don't touch it because it's all their side of the master socket.
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In theory, interference can be reported to OFCOM, as noted in the RSGB guidance FAQ
(as the Radio Amateur community is often impacted by the PV inverter noise)
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The ONT is provided by Openreach, not your ISP. Openreach provision the ONT to work on their network and it cannot be substituted (The openreach network has to be configured to expect a particular ONT on a particular port at the aggregation node, and the ONT to take your particular stream from the 32 available on that port, etc etc...) Makes you wonder if, using alternative equipment, you could ever read the streams going to your neighbours!
Michael Chare
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Makes you wonder if, using alternative equipment, you could ever read the streams going to your neighbours!
I reckon you "might" be able, but "might" depends on how they are splicing the fibres, but from what I have seen you have one large signal going in and where it is passive (i.e. no electrical circuits i.e. an amplifier) there are several reduced level signals coming out.
I have also been told that the packets are encoded and only the box that has been linked to the connection can decode it, hence the serial of the ONT.
I also think the data might use a form of TDM (Time-division multiplexing) where each packet at a binary level is split up into segments and these signals go to all ONT's.
So going into the splitter you have loads of data and this same data comes out on all 32 fibres, however the ONT will only be able to decode what is for itself.
But don't quote me on it.
The last time I really played with Optical Fibres on a data level was about +20 years ago and I know has changed since then especially the diameter of the fibre strands and the tools used install them.
Paul
Edited by PaulKirby (Sun 11-Feb-18 14:08:50)
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Makes you wonder if, using alternative equipment, you could ever read the streams going to your neighbours!
You can certainly receive them as they go to every device on the PON segment. They should, however, be encrypted, so all you would receive with a modified ONT is basically garbage.
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In theory, interference can be reported to OFCOM, as noted in the RSGB guidance FAQ
(as the Radio Amateur community is often impacted by the PV inverter noise)
I tried that but got nowhere. Ofcom, Openreach and AASIP all say that the neighbour is has no legal obligation. Hoping to FTTP will resolve the issue. I pick up a lot at the windows. The ONT will be by the window. So long as the ONT itself is not susceptible, I should be OK.
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FTTP works in a wholly different way, so REIN will not be an issue.
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It isn't impossible that in a few years time there could be an equivalent to 'wires-only' for fibre, as has happened for ADSL and FTTC previously, but for now the demarcation point is the ethernet socket on the HG8240/HG8110 NTE.
There are ONTs around such as the Mikrotik SFP ONU and Ubiquiti UF-Nano which support the relevant standards (GPON OMCI, ITU G.984), but it would need new provisioning processes developed to supply the device serial number to Openreach in order to be provisioned - this may be enough to stop it happening.
No it would not. It would just require someone to release an ONT which could be configured to report a specific serial number; specifically the one from the Openreach provided ONT. Then provided it was otherwise G.984 /G.988 compliant it would likely just work. It is highly unlikely Openreach are using some special standard for their FTPP network.
So I was aware last year people where looking into this, including desoldering the flash chip from inside an SFP based ONT and reprogramming it. However some random checking today shows there is now an easier solution because there is an SFP based ONT on the market that can be easily configured to "impersonate" other ONT's.
Here is a link to a web page the details the process (it's in Spanish but Google Translate does a very acceptable job on it), of changing the parameters on a ZISA SFP ONT including it's serial number to match that of a the vendor supplied one so that it works on an Orange GPON setup in Spain.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170826002450/https://w...
I don't have access to an GPON connection to test this out for BT, but I imagine it would work. Anyone wanting to try it out, here is a link to buy that ONT on Aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ZISA-GPON-stick-GPON...
Hopefully in the future Openreach will just start offering SFP based ONT's to people wanting them. In fact it would be better if they provided SFP based ONT's and use a cheap SFP to ethernet cage where required.
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OR ont is a optical to Ethernet solution. And as others have said gpon ont use encrypted streams and also part of the reason you need or equipment.
Theres is no current reason to have something different. As others have said think of it being a optical master socket ..
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OR ont is a optical to Ethernet solution. And as others have said gpon ont use encrypted streams and also part of the reason you need or equipment.
Theres is no current reason to have something different. As others have said think of it being a optical master socket ..
Agreed, plus I have had my ONT (orig 4 port version) for over a year now and mine is fine and has had no issues, unlike the Smart Hub which in my mind is a pile of rubbish.
Don't get me wrong, its a lot better than all the HH4's that I have had.
Paul
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Er, yes there is reasons to want something different. Firstly perhaps I don't want two boxes. There is nothing so certain as a single box solution being neater and consuming less resources. Secondly an SFP GPON ONT stuck in something like an EdgeRouter-4 will be lower latency than a separate ONT that converts it to 1000BaseT, before it goes back to the router to be converted back out of 1000BaseT. Maybe I am some latency obsessed gamer.
The Openreach solution is just bog standard G.984 /G.988 with authentication to the OLT being based on the serial number of the ONT. As I have show elsewhere in this thread you can buy a ZISA G.984 /G.988 compliant SFP based ONT in which you can change the serial number it reports to the OLT to anything you want; including that of the Openreach provided ONT.
As such the cat is out the bag for anyone wanting a single solution. For my mind an Ubiquiti Edgerouter-4 with an SFP based ONT power some UniFi access points via PoE is a very neat solution, and blows anything provided by an ISP out the water. Though admittedly it does cost a lot more.
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Secondly an SFP GPON ONT stuck in something like an EdgeRouter-4 will be lower latency than a separate ONT that converts it to 1000BaseT, before it goes back to the router to be converted back out of 1000BaseT. Maybe I am some latency obsessed gamer.
We're talking microseconds here. There will be far bigger external factors affecting your latency to the gaming servers.
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We're talking microseconds here. There will be far bigger external factors affecting your latency to the gaming servers.
I did say latency obsessed for a reason
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Er, yes there is reasons to want something different. Firstly perhaps I don't want two boxes. There is nothing so certain as a single box solution being neater and consuming less resources. Secondly an SFP GPON ONT stuck in something like an EdgeRouter-4 will be lower latency than a separate ONT that converts it to 1000BaseT, before it goes back to the router to be converted back out of 1000BaseT. Maybe I am some latency obsessed gamer.
The Openreach solution is just bog standard G.984 /G.988 with authentication to the OLT being based on the serial number of the ONT. As I have show elsewhere in this thread you can buy a ZISA G.984 /G.988 compliant SFP based ONT in which you can change the serial number it reports to the OLT to anything you want; including that of the Openreach provided ONT.
As such the cat is out the bag for anyone wanting a single solution. For my mind an Ubiquiti Edgerouter-4 with an SFP based ONT power some UniFi access points via PoE is a very neat solution, and blows anything provided by an ISP out the water. Though admittedly it does cost a lot more.
Are you sure Openreach are just using the serial number not serial number + password?
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Are you sure Openreach are just using the serial number not serial number + password?
Following on from this even if they are just using the SN when the ONT registers it'll have a MIB data sync mismatch. The OLT will require a full MIB sync. This will rather give away that it's not an Openreach ONT on the other end of the connection.
The MIB sync allows the OLT to discover hardware configuration and software capabilities of the ONT.
Openreach use this to determine when to push firmware updates to their ONTs.
Best hope Openreach neither use SN + password or are paying any attention to the MIBs being returned from ONTs.
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Also remember the FVA piece, another thing which makes using something other than the openreach ONT tricky (even if you don't plan to use FVA, it'll be something that the head end is likely expecting to be able to see etc..).
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Also remember the FVA piece, another thing which makes using something other than the openreach ONT tricky (even if you don't plan to use FVA, it'll be something that the head end is likely expecting to be able to see etc..).
Yup, just a part of the hardware and software capability MIBs. Replacing the ONT is very much hoping Openreach have fingers in ears singing 'La la la!'.
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Also remember the FVA piece, another thing which makes using something other than the openreach ONT tricky (even if you don't plan to use FVA, it'll be something that the head end is likely expecting to be able to see etc..).
Yup, just a part of the hardware and software capability MIBs. Replacing the ONT is very much hoping Openreach have fingers in ears singing 'La la la!'.
Yep, falls firmly into the solution looking for a problem category (imo).
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Yep, falls firmly into the solution looking for a problem category (imo).
Indeed. Though it isn't actually a viable solution to the problem either.
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You do wonder don�t you, not one single report of any issue with the Openreach ONT�s ... and yet folk desperate not to use it for a supposed saving of a few ms .....
Correct about the detection possible, �they� knew there was no BBU connected. Can also put head end into discovery mode and see what�s attempting connection, and much more I daresay.
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I assume those people worried not about milliseconds but microseconds have also researched infrastructure and thus are also latency wise already as close as possible to the gaming service they use, ie. living in a datacentre
The kicker is that games sometimes have lag compensation that attempts to level the playing field, so that sub 1 ms user can actually have a worse experience unless in a match where everyone else is sub 1ms.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Interesting one of BT's REIN bods a few years ago was wandering up and down my parents street looking at a device then back up again eventually he knocked on the door and said "One of your wireless CCTV cameras is spewing out loads of interference which is crippling your neighbour's ADSL so would you please replace it. My dad said well what if I don't and the engineer replied i'll report you and BT will take you to court and sue you.
So I guess he was full of BS to intimidate my dad into doing the right thing (he was going to anyway but he wondered what they'd do). After that I always assumed they'd come down on ppl like a ton of bricks if they were outputting disruptive signals like that.
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You do wonder don�t you, not one single report of any issue with the Openreach ONT�s ... and yet folk desperate not to use it for a supposed saving of a few ms .....
TBH I don't think it would save that much latency, I rather like the ONT, its not ugly, its sort of hidden away and easy to get up if need be.
I have had loads of Modems in the past that I have had issues with, but have yet to have any issues with our ONT, which is working great.
Like I said I am not too sure how much latency people of FTTP would save by replacing the ONT shown below is a traceroute to the BBC site:
tracert -4 bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.128.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms Yazoo [192.168.2.253]
2 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 217.32.146.68
3 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms 217.32.146.94
4 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 217.32.147.202
5 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 213.120.178.65
6 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 217.41.168.107
7 3 ms 4 ms 3 ms acc1-10GigE-0-3-0-4.l-far.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.249.120]
8 4 ms 3 ms 3 ms core3-te0-10-0-19.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.249.23]
9 3 ms 4 ms 3 ms peer7-et-7-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.84]
10 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms peer5-te0-9-0-32.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.81]
11 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 151.101.128.81
Trace complete.
Most of the Game Servers I connect to are EU Based Server like Blizzard's World of Warcraft Realm Servers I get between 6ms and 11ms.
So gaining a ms here an there wouldn't change much.
Paul
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I assume those people worried not about milliseconds but microseconds have also researched infrastructure and thus are also latency wise already as close as possible to the gaming service they use, ie. living in a datacentre
The kicker is that games sometimes have lag compensation that attempts to level the playing field, so that sub 1 ms user can actually have a worse experience unless in a match where everyone else is sub 1ms.
If I recall Blizzard's World of Warcraft has one which you set to your latency to their servers, it adds some input lag when used, but makes the game run smoother.
I use to use it when I use to play on they US Based Realm Servers which use to be between 250ms and 400ms when we were on ADSL 2+, with it disabled I was noticing the casting and actions misfiring due to latency lag, but with it enabled it was fine, well 80% of the time assuming the latency stayed the same.
Paul
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Are you sure Openreach are just using the serial number not serial number + password?
Following on from this even if they are just using the SN when the ONT registers it'll have a MIB data sync mismatch. The OLT will require a full MIB sync. This will rather give away that it's not an Openreach ONT on the other end of the connection.
The MIB sync allows the OLT to discover hardware configuration and software capabilities of the ONT.
Openreach use this to determine when to push firmware updates to their ONTs.
Best hope Openreach neither use SN + password or are paying any attention to the MIBs being returned from ONTs.
Openreach are clearly using the SN, and at best a fixed password that is the same on all ONT's so not hard to replicate. Further these devices are all Linux based including all the SFP based ones. As such changing the MIB to match is trivial exercise. The simpler solution of course would be for Openreach to offer an SFP based ONT to customers that request one.
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Openreach are clearly using the SN, and at best a fixed password that is the same on all ONT's so not hard to replicate. Further these devices are all Linux based including all the SFP based ones. As such changing the MIB to match is trivial exercise. The simpler solution of course would be for Openreach to offer an SFP based ONT to customers that request one.
So you're also going to set up your own OLT to capture the password? Fair enough.
Do you know for sure that all the software and hardware information is in a simple text file, none of it pulled from, say, firmware, ROM or other binary blobs, and that even if you can modify it you won't break things?
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With the new XGPON options allowing 1000mbps, how does this work with only 1 gigabit Ethernet port? Gigabit Ethernet is only about 6-700mbps, not 1000, so with the ONT having only 1 port it has to be either 10GbE, an SFP+ (GBIC slot) or use a LAG (bonded ports) to get true 1000mbps.
Otherwise we have an 'up to' fiasco again, and a lot of miffed people not seeing 4 digits on their TBB speedtests!
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Just maybe they might supply a different ONT
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I believe the new 1+1 ONT supports XGPON. If they were supplying a different ONT, it should appear in the BT SIN.
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It's all a bit fruitless anyway.
Once a ONT is registered to the OLT, you would need to reset the OLT to register a new ONT.
@Zarjaz will be able to confirm a little bit about how it all works.
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XGPON will mean new ONTs (the current ones are GPON only as I understand it). An XGPON ONT would likely have a 10GbE port. This one on alibaba does, for example.
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So again, with the new FTTPoD prices, they're promising 1gbps connections later this year too - should prices be reasonable (ie around £1-1.5k which is my elasticity point for FTTPoD) I will probably opt for a slower 'intermediary' speed for the initial 12 month pain, and upgrade to full bore gigabit, and so with the £11.25 regrade fee, surely it's best to have an ONT that can do XGPON...
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Why do you think Openreach will swallow the extra costs of adding the XGPON optics within the standard £11.25 regrade fee? This extra cost is why the 500 and 1000 Mbps products carry a higher set up fee and thus are targeted at the business sector.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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And for those worrying about presenting a 1 Gbps service over a 1 Gbps Ethernet port, what is the actual worry?
Plenty of commercial services do this, and its not like consumer grade routers are two a penny with a 10GbE WAN interfaces
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Where have they said that in the new pricing announcements?
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They have not, but I would urge caution, there is not point in having a different set up fee if people can simply regrade and trigger the extra work for XGPON and thus I believe the regrade will not be possible.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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If you look at
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...
the fixed connection price from BT Openreach for 500 and 1000 service jumps from £92 to £500 so by the time that comes via BT Wholesale and the ISP - we can expect a bump in install prices of £450+
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Having a look at the price list again...
XGPON has a £500 fixed connection fee, versus GPON at £92 (£408 difference). Regrade fee is £11.25. I would assume that this difference is the cost of optics.
Even so, £408 + £11.25 = £419.25, which is still cheaper than the difference between a 330 annual fee and the 1000 annual fee (£504) but more than the 160 -> 500mbps annual fee (£406.32).
/methinks this is another small point for your notepad when whispering to OR and getting under the skin of the new FTTPoD regime 
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I do not trust their price list. If you look at the retail FTTP price list which is a bit more informative that the FTTPoD version (located at https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici... ),
... the bandwidth change pricing is dated from June 2014, and I suspect relates to changes in all the sub 330 / XXX speeds which would have been possible since then using standard GPON optics.
I suspect that as > 330 speeds become readily available, we will see revised pricing for those faster circuits.
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Before getting too excited about the 0.5 and 1 Gig tiers on FTTPoD I would wait until Bt Wholesale start selling these products. Openreach price lists mean diddly squat if BT Wholesale decide not to sell the products. For example Openreach announced Wholesale price lists back in late 2016 for the native FTTP 0.5 and 1 Gig services. Guess how many ISPs are selling such services at present ? That�s right: zilch.
Edited by deleted (Fri 16-Feb-18 18:38:50)
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I don't believe you can regrade to the top two speeds because it requires infrastructure build.
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Andy, perhaps you could confirm my interpretation of the 01/02/2018 price list linked to please?
It looks to me as if the "fixed connection charge" of £92/£500 is on top of the survey/estimate/build costs, as per Notes 4 and 5. This just means the "distance band plus a potential further cost following survey" has been abolished. Not the multi-thousand installation cost itself.
I get the feeling this is not being realised by some posters.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6 |
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Who has been saying the high cost for the on demand build charge has been abandoned?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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That's what I just came back to clarify, but note that I did say "not the multi-thousand pound cost itself". I decided I had better add to that, something like what follows.
I'm expecting it to be simply an individual estimate per installation, typically in the same region as the earlier "banded plus" ones. My point was exactly the question you ask, as some may be reading that price list as saying it has been abandoned, when it hasn't.
It has just become a blank space - "OR will insert a big number here for each quote". That's what Notes 4 and 5 say, and in fact the estimate can be changed in the final planning stage.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6Edited by RobertoS (Fri 16-Feb-18 20:52:45)
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I can't really post the documents, so I'll try to explain the costing now.
Customer contacts ISP for a FoD quotation - they use BTw/OR systems to provide an estimate, which should be fairly accurate. If the customer accepts the estimate, the order progresses to a quotation.
OR conduct a full survey for the quotation. This will be based on the ECC Price List. If the customer accepts the ECC (build) cost, then he would have to pay this cost. If the customer rejects the build cost, then he would have to pay for the survey (£245.14 +VAT). The survey charge is only payable if the order does not progress.
If the order progresses to the build stage, OR will build the network for as many premises as possible. If a FoD order is placed for a single premises, then OR will provide a discount of £700 (first PON) + £50 (for a single premises) on the final build cost. If an order is for multiple premises, then OR provide a discount of £700 (on the total build costs for all orders) + £50 for each premises included in the order. For multiple premises in an FoD order, the total build costs would, I guess, be essentially split by the ISP (but that is up to them).
I've been told the cost of ownership is not expected to change over the lifetime of the FoD contract (12 months vs 3 years) for the majority of premises.
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AFAIK the Huawei HG8xxx only support GPON (downstream rate of 2.488 Gbit/s, upstream rate of 1.244 Gbit/s).
I've seen pictures of likely XGPON NTEs in a trial deployment which are ECI (probably, no identifying marks but certainly ECI styled) and ZTE - these only have copper ethernet customer connections, so still likely to be 1Gbps.
I can't see much likelyhood of higher speed client connections being offered, the main driver for XGPON (downstream rate of 9.95328 Gbit/s, upstream rate of 2.48832 Gbit/s) will be to reduce the contention as more clients subscribe to services with 330/500/1000 download speeds.
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That's great Andy, thanks.
The killers are:-
Cable (fibre or copper) including any jointing required from 01/04/2017 to 31/03/2018 £6.27 per metre plus Vat.
Cable (fibre or copper) including any jointing required from 01/04/2018 £7.54 per metre plus Vat.
On top of those, any groundworks/ductwork applicable, which appear to be an order of magnitude greater.
I assume the above apply, along with the footbox and such other charges, replacing the distance band prices.
I didn't know there was a standard ECC price list (D'oh!). That will be very useful to anyone seriously interested in the product.
I do think the FTTPoD price list itself should have a link to the ECC prices in the main table rather than seemingly covered by Notes 4 and 5 plus the "Other charges" footnote to the notes .
Serious money!
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6 |
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Yep. The head end needs to be told the serial number of the ONT, and what services/account should be associated with it .... thus providing the ordered product.
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On gigabit capable hardware which can actually keep up with the data rate you can achieve TCP throughput of ~940Mbps with full-size packets which takes into account the TCP, IP and Ethernet overheads/framing.
You don't get 100Mbps or 1Gpbs actual data throughput on EAD circuits (100Mbps via 100Base-TX fast ethernet or 1Gbps via 1000Base-SX/1000Base-LX fibre), I can't see FTTP/FTTPoD being any different.
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If it's ECC costs with only a discount for premises in the order, then FTTPoD is even deader in the water than it was, as EAD comes into play.
So I do think it is as it says and a discount for premises passed, which means higher (and more transparent) build costs but relatively proportionately greater discounts, meaning it's not much different from before. Although it also means that while it's viable for urban dwellers, rural folk are shafted again since they don't pass many properties.
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It's very optimistic to assume the discount covers every single property the fibre passes between the aggregation node and your property. I'd be absolutely astonished if this was the case. In some areas there will be hundreds of homes inbetween the 2.
The price list does say "FTTP on demand build charge exemption per premises passed by PON". It then directs you to note 5.
Under Note 5 it states "and an amount per premise we determine to have been enabled (to use FTTP) by the relevant build work"
At best it will be properties that would be served by your new Fibre DP.
This would be my guess, as these are the only properties that have everything in place once the FTTPod order is complete.
At worst it's £50 per property on the order, which for most orders will be a single property.
Edited by j0hn83 (Sat 17-Feb-18 01:40:25)
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If the customer accepts the ECC (build) cost, then he would have to pay this cost. If the customer rejects the build cost, then he would have to pay for the survey (£245.14 +VAT). The survey charge is only payable if the order does not progress.
With the old FoD pricing the customer had the choice of pulling out penalty-free if the build costs increased after the survey was carried out (ie ECCs applied). Is that no longer the case with the new pricing?
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IIRC the survey fee was always non-returnable if the customer declined the quotation.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6 |
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Well I read 'per premise to have been enabled' as any premise that the PON passes and can then order normal FTTP. In other words, those premises don't need to have the ONT actually installed with blinking green lights in the same order, just that they can then order it should they choose.
If it doesn't mean that and premises enabled does actually mean fully installed premises, then why would we choose FTTPoD at all? It makes far more sense to order an EAD that no one else can ever share and spread the costs of that between the premises in the order, Hyperoptic-style.
In any case Mr Saffron is planning to have a chat with OR to get to the bottom of this. Either way though I think the bigger issue is the rural vs urban problem.
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IIRC the survey fee was always non-returnable if the customer declined the quotation.
Nope, in the old pricing structure you could cancel without paying a penny if your build charges increased after the survey. This was clearly stated in the contract I signed with Fluidone.
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Yep. The head end needs to be told the serial number of the ONT, and what services/account should be associated with it .... thus providing the ordered product.
He's referring to entering the same serial number on his own ONT to get around this. However unless this is printed on the ONT it would need him to obtain access to it or to set up an OLT and sniff this and any password.
Far from academic. Very much depends how seriously Openreach want to prevent people using their own ONT. Perfectly possible very little security is in place.
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IIRC the survey fee was always non-returnable if the customer declined the quotation.
Nope, in the old pricing structure you could cancel without paying a penny if your build charges increased after the survey. This was clearly stated in the contract I signed with Fluidone.
That doesn't necessarily mean it was returned by Openreach. I doubt if that information is still available unless someone can find it on the web page archive site.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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In any case Mr Saffron is planning to have a chat with OR to get to the bottom of this. Either way though I think the bigger issue is the rural vs urban problem.
Agreed. It is crazy that Openreach have proportionately more FTTP in rural areas than urban ones, though this seems to be being addressed.
Regarding the discount per premises passed this covers only properties that can be easily connected. Openreach will not enable every property the new build passes, only those served by the final splitter. They won't be installing additional splitters, etc, that won't serve the customer that placed the order so the ceiling for additional premises is pretty low.
Nothing to do with shafting rural areas, just reality. Take a single property on its own DP with a few poles dedicated to it and a fully ducted row of terrace houses. Building the fibre splitter next to the existing copper DP and considering all properties served by that DP to be enabled is treating them both exactly the same, there are just more properties served by the one outside the terrace.
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IIRC the survey fee was always non-returnable if the customer declined the quotation.
Nope, in the old pricing structure you could cancel without paying a penny if your build charges increased after the survey. This was clearly stated in the contract I signed with Fluidone.
That doesn't necessarily mean it was returned by Openreach. I doubt if that information is still available unless someone can find it on the web page archive site.
Email from Fluidone to me back in Feb 2017:
�Openreach will give us the option to cancel your installation without penalties should ECCs be raised after the survey.�
Couldn�t be clearer!
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PON is relating to the final splitter and the number will vary based on local geography and topology of ducting/poles.
The TCO is not really changing, some who get lucky with the premises passed on PON will be better off, but many are not going to be, and FoD is not intended to a be a massed market product.
The new setup is more more favourable for things like voucher schemes, which are increasingly common as councils shy away from further large BDUK type deployments.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Alternatives exists but not here.
French multinational company Orange since 2017 offers LiveBox4 with built-in SFP ONT which can be easily moved to the L2 router.
https://lafibre.info/remplacer-livebox/
Canada Bell since 2016/2017 offers HomeHub 3000 with SFP's from severals vendors like Huawei or Nokia
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31118482-Yes-you-CA...
Fibre is not something magical. It is based on open ITU standards. Many consumer oriented products can be used without major inconvenience.
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With the new XGPON options allowing 1000mbps, how does this work with only 1 gigabit Ethernet port? Gigabit Ethernet is only about 6-700mbps, not 1000, ...
I have no idea what sort of kit you use to get such poor throughput on gig ethernet - but I suggest you get better kit or config.
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Gigabit ethernet gives a TCP throughput of 942Mbps(*) once all the various headers have been taken into account.
It's easy to saturate gigabit on pretty low-end hardware, given a decent operating system. I expect you have been running Windows.
(*) That's with IPv4 and MTU 1500. It's about 928Mbps with IPv6, because of the larger headers.
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In both cases �
� "TRAGIC"
ROFL
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original. |
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Gigabit ethernet gives a TCP throughput of 942Mbps(*) once all the various headers have been taken into account.
It's easy to saturate gigabit on pretty low-end hardware, given a decent operating system. I expect you have been running Windows.
(*) That's with IPv4 and MTU 1500. It's about 928Mbps with IPv6, because of the larger headers.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting Windows isn't any good or not, but Windows EASILY handles it - and way beyond on pretty basic hardware. Has done for a long time.
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I'm saying that I've seen many Windows boxes (particularly laptops) which only achieve 150-300Mbps, but if you reboot them into Linux, you get the full 940Mbps.
I presume that many of the Windows drivers for cheaper NICs are pants.
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I presume that many of the Windows drivers for cheaper NICs are pants. Cheap laptops can be awful in Linux too for various reasons. 
plusnet 80/20 (2/jun/14) at 470m - Sync history highest: 64/9 (Sep/17), 54/6 (Jan/19), 51/6 (Mar/19)
20 years of broadband from 1999's ntl:cable modem trial - Live BQM
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I'm saying that I've seen many Windows boxes (particularly laptops) which only achieve 150-300Mbps, but if you reboot them into Linux, you get the full 940Mbps.
I presume that many of the Windows drivers for cheaper NICs are pants.
The laptop might of had loads of stuff running in the background (i.e. bloatware).
I know when we are sending loads of data, media content (from a Windows 10 PC) over our LAN to one of our internal servers running Linux we get about 880Mbps to 910Mbps, so its not a Windows issue.
But you will never get the full 1Gbps over a Gigabit LAN due to all the overheads / headers in the packets.
Like most TCP headers will take up 54 bytes so with a TCP packet over TLS it will send a packet of size 1,494 bytes, now 54 bytes of that will be the TCP Header leaving 1,440 bytes that means that 96.38% of a 1Gigabit Lan will be data, so about 960Mbps, sure we could use Jumbo Packets, but not everything likes those.
But you also need to think about is not all packets are 1,494 bytes in size, they could be a lot smaller, but the TCP header will still be 54 bytes in size, so that would also reduce your data transfer over the Lan.
Paul
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I presume that many of the Windows drivers for cheaper NICs are pants. Cheap laptops can be awful in Linux too for various reasons.
Agreed,
I have a (temporary) Mini-ITX Server here running Linux which we are using for our DHCP, DNS Services plus other internal stuff, now everything works apart from the LAN just dies on it for some reason, nothing in the logs nothing, only fix is to re-install the drivers and or re-connect the LAN cable, seems loads are having this same issue, and this was down to the Realtek 1Gbit Controllers it uses being a pile of poop, yet it works great on Windows.
Yet I can buy a very cheap PCIe Gbit Lan card and it will be fine.
What I am trying to say is, its all down to the quality of the drivers, you could have hardware costing thousands and it will be useless if it had rubbish driver support for it, at the same time you could have some cheap Chinese knockoff device that cost a couple of quid (if that) but have very good driver support and it would work great.
Paul
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Good morning. I have a Huawei HG8110H-20 from the company Openreach, to replace the ONT of Movistar Spain. I cannot access the Huawei via web. Could someone tell me how to do it. Thank you.
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Now waiting for follow-up spam...
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????
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Post has many of the hallmarks of a random spammer.
The genuine question is why do you want to swap the ONT? Or what problem are you trying to solve.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Think of the ONT as the master socket in the pstn world, the RJ45 port marks the demarcation between openreach and the customer, obviously the ONT does more & is an active device rather than passive.
But wasn't that the case when FTTC was first provided? The demarcation point for Telephony was still the BT431A socket, but for Data, the RJ45 port on the FTTC Modem. Then OR decided that they were no longer going to support the Modem that they had supplied and if/when it failed the user was required to purchase their own Modem.
Cheers!
Clive
Andrews & Arnold Home::1 FTTC DrayTek Vigor 2762ac Cisco SPA112 and HUAWEI E5776 with O2 Data SIM
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True, but the FTTC modem was not on a shared medium, it did not have to be individually registered, and it was not responsible for decrypting your own traffic whilst ignoring other users' traffic.
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I have a Huawei HG8110H-20 from the company Openreach, to replace the ONT of Movistar Spain. I am wondering where you got the Openreach branded ONT from as they are not legally available to buy either here in the UK or in Spain. They remain the property of Openreach regardless of where you may have acquired it from.
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We are having to use our first application of FTTP (for business), we currently have about 50 DSL connections around the country so have been doing a little research.
We would like to replace the ONT with our own equipment for two reasons;
First. Our sites are remote and require an internet connection to operate, so we have been routinely replacing the modems that come from the ISP with enterprise level equipment for reliability. Our experience with provided kit is that it requires resetting more often than is good. We have failover lines and other mitigation, but it can still be a pain in the neck.
The second reason is related to the first. If something fails on site we need to replace it quickly. Rather than being able to do this ourselves, instead we have to go through the whole faff with Openreach just so someone can turn up and replace a box which we could have done a week earlier. It's not as if it saves a journey as Openreach won't enter an unattended site so we might have to drive from Somerset to Liverpool to wait for an engineer to spend three minutes unplugging and plugging in a piece of equipment and driving the four hours back.
Hopefully this won't be a major issue! We will need to pay for two lines so we can remotely switch between them to maintain connection, which sort of defeats some of the advantages of FTTP.
As an aside, and talking about the ONT provided, the local fibre network would see all the traffic in your area, I am given to understand that if you take your ONT and plug it in next door you will still get your connection. So hopefully the security is good on them.
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The Openreach ONT is part of the service and as far as I am aware cannot be replaced with your own kit.
The ONT is registered with the OLT in the exchange to provide service, Openreach (or most Altnets) don't allow you to register other ONTs with their system. With some vendors using other manufacturers ONTs needs extra licences and gets complex to work.
Theory says you can plug third party ONTs into PON systems, but reality at the moment is that is generally a pain so it is generally not permitted on UK deployments. I suspect this might change in a few years but no sign yet.
PON is just that - a passive optical network all customers on the same OLT port get the same data, it is that registration of the ONT to the OLT that controls the traffic you can decode, i.e. the ones sent for your service/ONT. If your neighbour is on the same OLT port as you then yes your ONT will get your service if you plug it in there, as far as the OLT in the exchange is concerned you are in the same place.
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Hi. For whatever reason, I only just now got an email to say that someone replied to my post. It was a genuine question. It turned out that the ONT at that property (I no longer live there) was Huawei, and I had no problems with it. I have since had a couple of Huawei phones that have been excellent. I take it they're no longer using Huawei. I think that's a shame. I just thought there's no point having a good router and home networking gear if the modem is pants. Lots of the cheap routers I've had from ISPs have been pretty rubbish, and so I always prefer to have my own where possible. It really gets my goat when companies lock you out. I know two people who are both locked out of their routers and can't even change the WiFi name or password.
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How good are the OR ONT? I've never had any half decent equipment for "free". I am wondering if there is any alternative. What happens if it goes faulty? It's different from a master socket, because there's a lot more to go wrong. I suppose it's more like the box I had for ISDN.
They're fine. You haven't any choice regardless. If it goes wrong Openreach fix it or replace it. I've had precisely 1 fail to date in all the installs done, it was replaced the next day.
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The ONT is manufactured by Huawei. The service is locked to the serial number of the ONT. It cannot be changed unfortunately.
They also use Nokia (and someone else I've forgotten).
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It isn't impossible that in a few years time there could be an equivalent to 'wires-only' for fibre, as has happened for ADSL and FTTC previously, but for now the demarcation point is the ethernet socket on the HG8240/HG8110 NTE.
I hope it never happens. It's better as it stands.
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The ONT is manufactured by Huawei. The service is locked to the serial number of the ONT. It cannot be changed unfortunately.
They also use Nokia (and someone else I've forgotten).
Adtran
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I hope it never happens. It's better as it stands. "Wires Only" for VDSL was a mistake. Ethernet as the point of interface is a much better idea.
21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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The ONT is manufactured by Huawei. The service is locked to the serial number of the ONT. It cannot be changed unfortunately.
They also use Nokia (and someone else I've forgotten).
Adtran
Plus the legacy ECI stuff.
Have they actually rolled out Adtran stuff anywhere yet?
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I haven't seen any mention of them anywhere other than the deal being announced.
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We are having to use our first application of FTTP (for business), we currently have about 50 DSL connections around the country so have been doing a little research.
We would like to replace the ONT with our own equipment for two reasons;
First. Our sites are remote and require an internet connection to operate, so we have been routinely replacing the modems that come from the ISP with enterprise level equipment for reliability. Our experience with provided kit is that it requires resetting more often than is good. We have failover lines and other mitigation, but it can still be a pain in the neck.
The second reason is related to the first. If something fails on site we need to replace it quickly. Rather than being able to do this ourselves, instead we have to go through the whole faff with Openreach just so someone can turn up and replace a box which we could have done a week earlier. It's not as if it saves a journey as Openreach won't enter an unattended site so we might have to drive from Somerset to Liverpool to wait for an engineer to spend three minutes unplugging and plugging in a piece of equipment and driving the four hours back.
Hopefully this won't be a major issue! We will need to pay for two lines so we can remotely switch between them to maintain connection, which sort of defeats some of the advantages of FTTP.
As an aside, and talking about the ONT provided, the local fibre network would see all the traffic in your area, I am given to understand that if you take your ONT and plug it in next door you will still get your connection. So hopefully the security is good on them.
Scratch the earlier reply. Having properly read your post I see you're in the UK.
Simple answer is that all networks here will wholly provision and support the ONT. You cannot replace the ONT with a device of your own choosing. It simply does not work that way in the domestic FTTP market. Operators in other countries may do it differently, but not here.
Your handover point will be the ethernet interface on the device. Some Altnets, outside of Openreach will provision a combined ONT-router, but this is network specific.
Downstream shared bandwidth on GPON is encrypted. Return traffic is based on managed timeslots, as dictated by the OLT and ONT handshake. Its a fairly robust well established protocol. On-net protocols are well established for rogue ONT attacks and the like.
Edited by Pheasant (Thu 26-Aug-21 18:03:23)
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There was an article earlier this year saying Openreach had deployed Adtran and the first customers were live, that quoted Towcester as the first location.
It would be interesting to know how Openreach are getting on as the Adtran is a very different beast to the other systems they have. Disaggregated software defined platform vs. big old school systems for Nokia and Huawei.
So they have:
Huawei and ECI as legacy/not actively rolling out and
Nokia and Adtran as the go forward plaforms.
I have seen reports saying they are now deploying different vendors ONTs on at least one of the old platforms. Nokia on the Huawei maybe?
So there are four different vendors out there and interoperability is a pain so I can’t see them opening it up to third party ONTs for a while/if at all. The device serial number is locked to your account, they scan it as part of the install process.
Outside of Openreach CityFibre have Calix, so there are at least five G-PON suppliers out there in the U.K.
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Yep think it was APTMAN on here that recently had a Nokia ONT installed oh a Huawei headend.
There's several other ONT vendors being used by Altnets here; Altice, Genexis, HALNy, Zyxel even TP-Link combo WiFi router/ONT by Hey! DKT Comega also figure highly in the Point-to-Point FTTP market
Edited by Pheasant (Thu 26-Aug-21 18:39:20)
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The device serial number is locked to your account, they scan it as part of the install process.
Noting that's just a setting in the firmware on the ONT. If you think that can't be changed on a third party ONT to match the Openreach ONT (and the MAC address for good measure), then I have a slightly used bridge to sell you with only a few snapped cables and brand new truss end links
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Yep think it was APTMAN on here that recently had a Nokia ONT installed oh a Huawei headend.
It certainly was me, Only because of the incompetent cowboy installer from MJ Quinn fitted the wrong one. seems to be working quite well though .
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It certainly was me, Only because of the incompetent cowboy installer from MJ Quinn fitted the wrong one. seems to be working quite well though .
Wouldn't expect you to see any difference whatsoever 😀
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Noting that's just a setting in the firmware on the ONT. If you think that can't be changed on a third party ONT to match the Openreach ONT (and the MAC address for good measure), then I have a slightly used bridge to sell you with only a few snapped cables and brand new truss end links
Indeed - however whilst the basic G-PON functions are standard there are a lot of other bits around it that are used to manage/control FTTH networks that are not, so Openreach/other PON providers are very likely to spot it is not one of their ONTs (if they care). A lot of the service monitoring/support data you can get off ONTs is either not consistency implemented or is proprietary.
Openreach support Ethernet OAM for example, would a third party one work the same way?
There is a lot of work ongoing with some vendors to certify third party ONTs to give more flexibility for different deployment scenarios. ONTs on an SFP are an interesting one, the end-device just sees a standard SFP, so it means you can take a lot of sensors and connect them to PON, lots of potential for Smart Cities and small 5G cells.
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Yep think it was APTMAN on here that recently had a Nokia ONT installed oh a Huawei headend.
It certainly was me, Only because of the incompetent cowboy installer from MJ Quinn fitted the wrong one. seems to be working quite well though .
He did fit the correct one. Openreach installers and presumably the contractors have been told to only fit Nokia ONTs now.
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As an aside, and talking about the ONT provided, the local fibre network would see all the traffic in your area, I am given to understand that if you take your ONT and plug it in next door you will still get your connection. So hopefully the security is good on them. The ONT would only work next door if they were connected to the same fibre going back to the exchange which may not be the case.
If you want rapid repair for an FTTP service you could consider a business account.
You could use your own router, though even that may be difficult if you also want an Openreach based VOIP telephone service. Other VOIP providers should just work.
Michael Chare
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Noting that's just a setting in the firmware on the ONT. If you think that can't be changed on a third party ONT to match the Openreach ONT (and the MAC address for good measure), then I have a slightly used bridge to sell you with only a few snapped cables and brand new truss end links
Indeed, though I would recommend sticking to the same manufacturer as the original to ensure the proprietary MEs are present.
BT Retail Full Fibre 900 // Zen Full Fibre 900 // Faelix FTTP 300
Main router: Mikrotik CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS.
Switches: 1 * CSS326-24G-2S+RM, 2 * CRS309-1G-8S+IN, 2 * CRS305-1G-4S+IN
All connected via Invisilight SMF, wife required subtlety, and DACs.
Steam Performance
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He did fit the correct one. Openreach installers and presumably the contractors have been told to only fit Nokia ONTs now.
When did Openreach decree that no more Huawei ONTs would be fitted?
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He did fit the correct one. Openreach installers and presumably the contractors have been told to only fit Nokia ONTs now.
Maybe on your patch, not here. We've heard nothing similar. I just finished an install with a Huawei ONT and my next appointment is also receiving a Huawei ONT.
I'm not a contractor but am an OR employee.
Judging by the amount of 1 port Huawei ONT's we have in stores we won't be stopping using them any time soon. There's also nowhere near enough Nokia ONT's here to cover every install.
Al
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Maybe on your patch, not here. So you haven't been told below yet?
Engineers have been told to return all Huawei ONT's, so we definitely won't see that combo. It's to be Nokia only from now on.
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Maybe on your patch, not here. So you haven't been told below yet?
Engineers have been told to return all Huawei ONT's, so we definitely won't see that combo. It's to be Nokia only from now on.
It hasn’t been publicised very well but there was a national briefing made on 6th of August. Search for it on Openreach’s social media.
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It hasn’t been publicised very well but there was a national briefing made on 6th of August. Search for it on Openreach’s social media. I believe you, wasn't sure if the message had got out yet to all OR engineers out in the field
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Maybe on your patch, not here. So you haven't been told below yet?
Engineers have been told to return all Huawei ONT's, so we definitely won't see that combo. It's to be Nokia only from now on.
It hasn’t been publicised very well but there was a national briefing made on 6th of August. Search for it on Workplace.
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Search for it on Workplace. Maybe better posted to AllanMcOR than me as I've been happily out of the game for 25 years now
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Going by the later conversation buy whatever you want and use its GUI to set its serial number, or if an SFP+ use its CLI.
Openreach are no more bothered than Bell Canada, etc, it seems. Makes sense, far more control over profiles and more granular provisioning with PON over cable and far less to go wrong.
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So what are you saying Carl, get hold of a Nokia G-010S-A SFP module from Canada plug it into a L3 switch or router, spoof the serial number from the existing in service ONT onto the SFP and it will work on the Openreach net?
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So what are you saying Carl, get hold of a Nokia G-010S-A SFP module from Canada plug it into a L3 switch or router, spoof the serial number from the existing in service ONT onto the SFP and it will work on the Openreach net? It can't be that simple, can it?
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Engineers have been told to return all Huawei ONT's, so we definitely won't see that combo. It's to be Nokia only from now on.
It hasn’t been publicised very well but there was a national briefing made on 6th of August. Search for it on Openreach’s social media.
Perhaps this is part of an attempt by Openreach to comply with the 35% limit imposed by the government on the premises passed by a network served by Huawei equipment, which comes into effect from 28 January 2023.
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On other news I just read this morning; ADTRAN have announced a take-over bid for ADVA. The latter being a key supplier to Openreach on their ethernet (EAD) portfolio.
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Will be interested to hear from anyone who has seen or had a ADTRAN ONT installed via Openreach and how the dimensions and look of it compare to the Nokia ONT installed by Openreach.
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I found the PR /news announcement referred to above, about the first customer on the Towcester exchange in Northampton being connected around February time, but not anything since then.
Perhaps OR will just install Nokia ONT's on ADTRAN OLT based exchanges and not bother rolling out a third ONT vendor.
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Has anyone tried to install an Ubiquiti UFiber Nano G to replace the Openreach GPON ?
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It won't work so it's not worth trying.
Thanks
Dan
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Has anyone tried to install an Ubiquiti UFiber Nano G to replace the Openreach GPON ?
Theoretically on a Huawei based OLT… switch the profile / manufacturer ID on the ONT + you’d need to be able to spoof the existing GPON serial number to match with what the OLT was expecting to see. All theoretically.
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Just for info. the new Fritzbox 5530 fibre has a built in ONT. Don't know if available in or work with the UK system.
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Just for info. the new Fritzbox 5530 fibre has a built in ONT. Don't know if available in or work with the UK system.
Yes there’s many consumer level routers that now have SFP ports or indeed GPON ONT transceivers built-in, but it’s not really a plug and play operation (for end users) with the GPON nets here in the UK.
We have several dozen AltNet’s and the incumbent, Openreach, all of which supply and support their own flavours and mix ONT or ONT/router manufacturer equipment, rolled in, fully supplied and supported as part of the overall service.
Supplying your own ONT is not really the done thing here - unless you’re into the curious, weird, wacky and experimental. Even then there’s no guarantee it will work and in any event the service provider will take a dim view of anyone that tries and messes up their connection and potentially affects other customers on the PON.
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Will be interested to hear from anyone who has seen or had a ADTRAN ONT installed via Openreach and how the dimensions and look of it compare to the Nokia ONT installed by Openreach.
Reviving this thread a bit (sorry!)
So whilst looking at other stuff related to All IP Programme found this snippet in the last Openreach newsletter, Issue 8 (dated June 2021). Under " Exciting GEA-FTTP Latest News"..
New Network Vendor
We have successfully connected the first end customer using Adtran-supplied network equipment and we have now extended live CP testing into further areas (in parts of Peebles, Londonderry and Kings Lynn areas) prior to wider deployment.
https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/content/dam/cpp...
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Ohh Londonderry, my area, but I'm on a new small huawei ONT
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OK thanks for thinking of this thread
So by the sounds of it there is some ADTRAN kit in use out there although we don't know if its OLT's, ONT's or both.
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Yep it’s not clear from that update unfortunately. I presume it’s at least the OLT.
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Likely the Adtran TA401 Micro ONT
https://www.balticnetworks.com/docs/1287786F1S-AdTra...
You would’ve thought if it’s made it out to wider deployments then it would be noted in the SiN or covered by the press etc. but it’s very quiet.
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Assume the Huawei ONT is 1GB port, so I wonder what EE provide with their 1600mbit service?
Anyone know?
Edited by Jnaro (Thu 14-Mar-24 15:22:23)
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Assume the Huawei ONT is 1GB port, so I wonder what EE provide with their 1600mbit service?
Anyone know?
A replacement Nokia or Adtran ONT dependant on headend with a 2.5gig ethernet port (engineer visit required)
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I recently had a second 900Mbps service installed and they fitted a Nokia 2.5G single port ONT on a separate fibre to the CBT to the existing 1 port 1G Nokia ONT.
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Just an update for anyone wondering about whether this is actually possible because a lot of doubt has been cast in various threads (and so I'm adding a note to all the ones that confused me):
It works. I was able to connect to my ISP through Openreach using an SFP ONT I bought online. The original ONT provided by Openreach was a Nokia G-010G-Q so I purchased what seemed to be the closest equivalent, the Nokia G-010S-A (G,S = GigEth,SFP and Q,A is just the manufacturer).
At first when plugging the SFP ONT and fibre in nothing really seemed to be working, however this is obviously expected as I hadn't matched anything from the provided ONT. This was easily fixed by using the information over at https://hack-gpon.org (a great resource documenting configuring ONT hardware) to copy as much of the information on the stickers on the outside of the original ONT (MfrID+SN, HardwareVersion, ICS, Mnemonic, MAC) onto the SFP one. While I was at it I also upgraded to the latest known firmware.
Once all that stuff was copied over it was plain sailing. I was able to use PPPoE (without vlan 101) to authenticate with my ISP (Plusnet), get an IP and route traffic. Everything seems to be extremely stable and I am happy with how things are working. I've not seen any benefit in switching the ONT over to 2.5G mode, however I've left it on anyway as I'm not getting any adverse effect either. It's really nice to just have the fibre from Openreach go straight into my router now.
Obviously, this is all at my own risk and I've kept the old ONT on hand for if problems happen.
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