Is 5g a con?

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Its not the speeds we were told. So what happened?

In reply to a post by ian72:

Some of the issue with building penetration will depend on which frequencies the mobile operator is using in a particular area - the higher the frequency the less it will work in buildings. I must admit O2 have never seemed particularly impressive for speeds, other networks have potentially better coverage and speeds. 5G will improve as the older technologies get turned off and the frequencies are reused for 5G coverage.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I think your problem is O2. I can pull 150Mbps through a weak Vodafone 5G connection that according to them shouldn't be available indoors, strong Vodafone 4G from a rural mast can get 160Mbps. I get over 100Mbps from my not brilliant iPhone on the train with EE.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I can only speak from personal experience, but in Camberley town centre, my work iPhone 13 can record about 450 download on speedtests to the local 5G service.

In reply to a post by NBK:

Secondly, the UK networks are built on 5G NSA (non standalone) rather than SA which re-uses 4G network core.

I don't even know if there's any 5G SA rolled out in the UK yet....

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

half hearted rollout, only Three seem to be taking it seriously.

e,g, in my city three has about 80% coverage.

EE has close to 100% 4G coverage but barely 3% 5G coverage, Looks like BT as new owners of EE stopped the previous EE investment on new masts.

In reply to a post by techguy:

Having had a bit of an interest since getting my first phone when I was 17 in 1999 it seems an ever repeating cycle of hype which equipment manufacturers are more than happy to profit from.

Network equipment manufacturers need to get operators to spend vast sums so come out with new kit that purports to allow them to do more with less:

More subscribers per cell
more power efficiency etc.
New services
cells that cover a wider area, etc.

Operators think 'ehey this is great' so open their chequebooks

Small testbed established, press and bloggers (some of whom should know better) get invited and all go wow and write puff pieces

Network equipment manufacturers may have divisions that make handsets (or have stakes in companies that do) so they come out with handsets that take advantage of the new kit's capabilties.

Operators buy these by the container load to get customers omto the very expensive network they've just started to build.

Rollout continues over years, early adopters rave until majority of traffic shifts and everything slows.

Yes, it's a marketing con.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

That's why we all hate greedy BT bossess. Huge profit, less for customers as a lowest slow speed on 4G/5G from EE.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Why did you ask about 5G then if you already know the answers? And after asking about 5G what is the point in then posting to tell us you aren't going to get it? You raised the questions but seems you already know enough about the technology to know the answers.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Any customer who is unhappy with the service they get and/or the price they pay, still has three different networks they can move to instead.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

half hearted rollout, only Three seem to be taking it seriously.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

EE has close to 100% 4G coverage but barely 3% 5G coverage, Looks like BT as new owners of EE stopped the previous EE investment on new masts.

Edited by pluralist (Thu 02-Feb-23 00:57:31)

Edited by philg (Thu 02-Feb-23 01:04:49)

In reply to a post by philg:

EDIT: The ESim thing is that until I think yesterday, three didn't offer esims (apart from a trial I was not on) so I couldn't just flip my three physical sim to an esim and keep both active on the device. Voda will let me do that (but I have a physical sim for now).

Edited by pluralist (Thu 02-Feb-23 01:22:35)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

That is true, unless they are in a very long contract and paying stupid amounts per month.
I have not had a contract for my phone for a few years now, just monthly rolling sim only thing, one of the better things I have done, buy a chepish phone outright, my Oppo is a good phone and then pay next to nothing per month with smarty.

I will never go for a phone contract again, I wish I could do it with home broadband to be honest and keep it at a decent price, but without a contract, broadband is stupid prices. Need to get rid of contracts.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

That is true, unless they are in a very long contract and paying stupid amounts per month.
I have not had a contract for my phone for a few years now, just monthly rolling sim only thing, one of the better things I have done, buy a chepish phone outright, my Oppo is a good phone and then pay next to nothing per month with smarty.

I will never go for a phone contract again, I wish I could do it with home broadband to be honest and keep it at a decent price, but without a contract, broadband is stupid prices. Need to get rid of contracts.

Biggest well said! he is right 1000% Wake up peoples - We are taking for a fool in this country by these greedy mobile providers and broadband service providers. Hate contract.

I agree with him 100%.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Looks like on Apple you can "port" a phone number into their eSIM software/firmware to get phone service.

Edited by Pheasant (Thu 02-Feb-23 21:03:26)

In reply to a post by jpm:

I suspect people who are dead set against contracts would also find it unreasonable to be asked to pay the costs associated with acquiring them as a customer in the form of a setup fee.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Apologies, I did get mixed up in the long thread as to who asked what.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Brought myself new unlocked Zyxel 5G Router NR5103E and put in the loft and got the speed result: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/16760385368...

I will invest new Poynting 4x4 Omni antenna for 5G - 5G-XPOL-1-V2-41 and YINETTECH 4Pcs RF U.FL IPEX IPX Mini PCI to SMA Female 4Inch 10cm Pigtail Antenna Cable RG-178 Coaxial Low Loss to put in the loft while the hub 5 in the pc room should improvement gaining extra 5G download and upload speed in due course.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

That is pretty impressive, the problem is, how much will it cost per month and what restrictions will you have?
So is there a place on the unit to stick an external antenna?

Edited by adslmax (Sat 11-Feb-23 08:51:03)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

It's cost £12 a month from this social tariff: https://smarty.co.uk/social-tariff

There is no restrictions on 5G it total unlimited! But I understood Three set FUP of 850GB per month on their own sim but not aplied on smarty sim. 5G Hub unlocked from this bloke: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185759188021

Edited by pluralist (Sat 11-Feb-23 19:50:14)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

It's cost £12 a month from this social tariff: https://smarty.co.uk/social-tariff

There is no restrictions on 5G it total unlimited! But I understood Three set FUP of 850GB per month on their own sim but not aplied on smarty sim. 5G Hub unlocked from this bloke: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185759188021

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Fine if you can get the social tariff, that is pretty cheap as long as it works fine, from what I have been told 5G can be a bit iffy, but I suppose that is for mobiles which are moving all the time.

Edited by adslmax (Sun 12-Feb-23 09:09:26)

In reply to a post by dect:

You are making a mockery of the social system we have here in the UK.

You are clearly on benefits which is fine but to then spend hundreds of pounds of it on a 5G route and possibly more on a high end loft aerials shows the social system is broken. From what your saying you don't appear to actually need to be on a social tariff as you don't seem to be financially struggling like some people who are out there actually working.

Rather than grating all those who put into the system why don't you do the decent thing and only take from it what you actually need rather than what you're entitled too.

Before I retired I worked all my adult life (never a day sick) here in the UK and paid a mountain of cash into the UK system and never asked for a penny back, even today I don't draw a state pension although I am entitled to it.

In reply to a post by jpm:

It's also entirely possible that adslmax is making things up again and hasn't bought a 5G router. Though if they have I presume the radio stats will be checked as frequently as their sync rates and Three will get constant calls whenever the numbers dip a bit.

Edited by adslmax (Sun 12-Feb-23 16:57:57)

In reply to a post by dect:

You are making a mockery of the social system we have here in the UK.

You are clearly on benefits which is fine but to then spend hundreds of pounds of it on a 5G route and possibly more on a high end loft aerials shows the social system is broken. From what your saying you don't appear to actually need to be on a social tariff as you don't seem to be financially struggling like some people who are out there actually working.

Rather than grating all those who put into the system why don't you do the decent thing and only take from it what you actually need rather than what you're entitled too.

Before I retired I worked all my adult life (never a day sick) here in the UK and paid a mountain of cash into the UK system and never asked for a penny back, even today I don't draw a state pension although I am entitled to it.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Whatever Max's personal circumstances are (and whether his posting which prompted your diatribe is fully aligned with the facts), it is the wrong move to personally attack him. If you have a problem with people acting within the law and claiming benefits to which they are entitled you should be attacking the law not those who are behaving perfectly legally and in an economically rational manner.

In reply to a post by dect:

You are right, sorry. I will now claim my state pension and all the recent government payments I am entitled too even though I don't need any of them.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

When 5g was announced and then rolled out we were told we would have lightning fast speeds of 100mbps+ and would open up the potential for unrestricted video calls which would help many businesses.

In reality thats not happened.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Im on o2 so maybe that speaks more about their network.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Whatever Max's personal circumstances are (and whether his posting which prompted your diatribe is fully aligned with the facts), it is the wrong move to personally attack him. If you have a problem with people acting within the law and claiming benefits to which they are entitled you should be attacking the law not those who are behaving perfectly legally and in an economically rational manner.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

When 5g was announced and then rolled out we were told we would have lightning fast speeds of 100mbps+ and would open up the potential for unrestricted video calls which would help many businesses.

In reality thats not happened. Im on o2 so maybe that speaks more about their network.

But ive done speedtests where i live, and in a few major cities in the UK like Leeds & Manchester. At best i got 20mbps down and similar up. At peak times that drops to 9mbps down. Its often faster to go on 4g

Edited by jchamier (Mon 13-Feb-23 14:02:42)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Saying that, I know a few people in different parts of the country and some say it is great and others say it is useless, most of the problems seems to be when you are in between building, more so high rise buildings in larger cites.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

I can get decent high speed Three 5G speedtest results in quite a few areas of Central Manchester. As you know and others here have commented, the prevalence of high buildings there (many from the magnificent cotton trading days) knock it for six. Near to the trunk roads is obviously best, as the Three rollout in the north-west seems to be aimed at commuters.

In Hazel Grove we are almost swamped by Three 5G coverage, with no other provider having any 5G presence at all. I happen to be in one of the few almost not-spots for it except upstairs. I shall be upgrading to their 5G Home Broadband in June/July when my minimum term expires, and see how that does. The router sits on a window-sill on the same side of the house as the new-style Three mast installed last year.

I don't need the 5G but who knows!

In reply to a post by jchamier:

If your contacts are on Vodafone or O2 then be aware these networks are quite different across a line up the middle of England. Generically in the west Vodafone is better and in the East O2 is better. London is different and major cities are starting to be 'unwound' from this agreement, so change is afoot. This doesn't apply to EE or Three.
https://pedroc.co.uk/content/vodafone-o2-beacon-1-and-2

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I am not sure what they are using, i think one said they use EE and 99% of the time their phone changes back to 4G and another say they have turned 5G off on their phone as it is so unreliable, but I don't know what network they are on.

Makes no difference to me at the moment, the chance of me using 5G in the next couple of years or so is pretty slim unless I drop my phone and break it, or it has some other fault and then I will look for another phone, but not bothered if it has 5G or not.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Probably not a bad idea, might save some battery power. If the 4G is meeting the needs.

It should come free in any phone you have to replace it with.

In reply to a post by japitts:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

EE has close to 100% 4G coverage but barely 3% 5G coverage, Looks like BT as new owners of EE stopped the previous EE investment on new masts.

4G capacity adds & 5G tech-adds are onto existing sites.

EE's 4G & 5G expansion is very far from being stopped.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

I think I have been misinterpreted.

I didnt mean they stopped building new masts, but rather stopped the previous investment approach.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

I think I have been misinterpreted.

I didnt mean they stopped building new masts, but rather stopped the previous investment approach.

Not really… there was a massive switch from old circuit-switched 2G and 3G to deploy packet switched 4G, and with 19,000 masts that took a while.

Since then 5G has launched, but it isn’t immediately of benefit to many people, same just faster, as 4G has solved the problem of ‘signal but no data’ that was always common on 3G.

So EE and the other networks are involved in the Shared Rural Network project to increase coverage in not-spots, and in the Huawei replacement, this means the number of new towns getting 5G is lower than I guess you expect.

They are still on plan to have 5G in most places by 2028.

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 22-Feb-23 22:41:23)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

The pure simple explanation is the EE 5G rollout in my area is just not up to par, and nothing like how good the 4G rollout was, whatever the reason that fact cant be evaded. EE was the clear leader on 4G, there were miles ahead of even their closest competitor. So yes they had a high standard to follow, but it is what it is.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

stupid capped 600GB on 5G limit. What the point?

Edited by deleted (Thu 23-Feb-23 22:57:11)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I always get over 1TB every month at home.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I always get over 1TB every month at home. Using broadband with 12 devices.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

We were averaging 1.5TB on Three and then EE, when 4G was the only option here that would get us more than 20 down, 3 up.

Thankfully now we have Starlink.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I always get over 1TB every month at home. Using broadband with 12 devices.

Ummmm.

I hope you are fibbing again.

Don't you live alone? IIRC you did have one family member there but she left some time ago. Even with her, twelve devices is rather a lot without a fair number of people in the house.

Unless of course there's a lot of business use, in which case you are breaking your ISP contracts and other things. The most devices I've seen in a house with one person was someone with a bank of seven computers, earning his living doing deep data mining for big businesses. (Or maybe that was his story and he was crypto-mining).

Edited by adslmax (Fri 24-Feb-23 00:54:27)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Xbox probably the biggest bandwidth user, by default it auto updates any game installed, patches can easily be multiple 10s of gigs per update.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

12 devices are one pc computer, cctv, xbox, 2 x mobile phones, 3 x TVs, 2 x freesat boxes, 2 x freeview boxes. Forget to add one more device is tablet.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

their old approach was to have low towns coverage, and initially no rural, but the towns they enabled they packed it out and did a "proper" rollout.

This feels like the BT FTTP approach where they seem to be doing a scatter gun enabling lots of areas but with only small coverage in those areas. Hence my comment on a different investment approach.

We do seem to be over kind on telco rollouts to rural areas in England, and there is a price to that felt by the cities.

The pure simple explanation is the EE 5G rollout in my area is just not up to par, and nothing like how good the 4G rollout was, whatever the reason that fact cant be evaded. EE was the clear leader on 4G, there were miles ahead of even their closest competitor. So yes they had a high standard to follow, but it is what it is.

In reply to a post by robaltech:

Depends on the network, some are better than others.

Edited by jchamier (Sat 25-Feb-23 10:37:15)

In reply to a post by robaltech:

eNB ID 50939 has just been upgraded which is much closer; will have to slightly adjust the AP to benefit from this.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Customers in your region typically see download speeds of 50-200 Mbps. No contracts, 30-day trial.
Shipping times are currently estimated to be 1-2 weeks.

£75/mo for service and £460 for hardware.

Bloody hell - way too expensive! I get 575Meg down for just £12 a month on smarty.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Bloody hell - way too expensive! I get 575Meg down for just £12 a month on smarty.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Bloody hell - way too expensive! I get 575Meg down for just £12 a month on smarty.

I'm in a major built up area, and I get 30 Mbps on Smarty. No new Phase7/Phase8 mast from Three anywhere near.

You can't assume the country is the same Max.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

The fastest I ever seen today in my living room this afternoon on my 5G mobile phone.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

The fastest I ever seen today in my living room this afternoon on my 5G mobile phone.

https://www.speedtest.net/result/a/9102131039

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I bet we would not get anything near that here with 5G.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

5G is available here, but I am on the edge of the coverage by all the networks by the looks of it, But I do know of some people who have 5G phones, and they are said they get better signal with 4G. As I have said before, makes no odds to me, I don't have a 5G phone and I am in no rush to get one either.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

As I’ve said many times (probably in this exact thread) the UK deployment of 5G is alongside 4G, it doesn’t replace. Phone calls are still carried over 4G for example. Think of 5G as additional lanes on the motorway.

Your next phone will come with 5G for free, until then forget about it, and this thread.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I know, 5G is alongside 4G, but what is the point if it doesn't work?

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I know, 5G is alongside 4G, but what is the point if it doesn't work?

If my next phone comes with 5G or not depends on the phone I buy and when I buy it, hopefully it will be a few more years, I want to get as much use out of my phone as I can. But if it does come with 5G and if the 5G here have not improved it will be disabled.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

As has been pointed out here multiple times, the key benefit of 5G isn't really higher speeds, it is more network capacity.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

5G is available here, but I am on the edge of the coverage by all the networks by the looks of it, But I do know of some people who have 5G phones, and they are said they get better signal with 4G.
As I have said before, makes no odds to me, I don't have a 5G phone and I am in no rush to get one either.

because everyone had removed the indicator letting them move right and use additional capacity… Its that insane your suggestion.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I know, 5G is alongside 4G, but what is the point if it doesn't work?

It does work, it adds extra capacity to the networks.

As has been pointed out here multiple times, the key benefit of 5G isn't really higher speeds, it is more network capacity.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Huawei 5G N5368X are not safe security due to China

In reply to a post by Philce:

O2 here in Leicester 5G is useless, even on a normal afternoon, I have to turn it off. Its all about increasing capacity, but its either not set up correctly within the network, or its just overloaded?

In reply to a post by ian72:

There are many drivers on motorways that will confirm to you that indicators are not required to change lanes

In reply to a post by jchamier:

It does work, very well, but UK deployment so far is at high frequency as there is still 3G and 4G in the lower frequencies. As capacity needs increase over the next 10 to 15 years, then the lower frequencies will be used for 5G and 4G replaced. Think longer term.

If you notice it causing a problem, feel free, but more and more phones will not let you do this, as the networks don’t want you to as they need to balance capacity.

Imagine driving down the M6 with 3 lanes and everyone using the left lane only, causing huge traffic jams and complaining “its rubbish this motorway” because everyone had removed the indicator letting them move right and use additional capacity… Its that insane your suggestion.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

5G can flick between 5G and 4G on the mobile that caused drain the battery. I just turn off 5G on my mobile. Just using standard 4G. I only use 5G at home using 5G Hub.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I don't have phones from providers, I buy my own phone and use sim only packages, providers don't have the control over my phones that they do with the phones they provide with the rubbish they stick on them. So I doubt very much if they will be able to stop me turning 5G off.

I realise what you are saying, but 4G works fine for me, anyway the way our council is refusing permission for masts the chance of a good 5G signal is pretty slim. 4G struggles in some places.

Edited by jchamier (Sat 11-Mar-23 09:58:08)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Bad signals always drained batteries, even on older non-smart phones

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

To be fair I cannot think of a use case where a phone needs gigabit speeds.

My own observation is I think only Three are grasping the bull by the horns and might end up been the new market leader as a result.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

will worsen.

We have a large number of Victorian and other multi-storey office blocks and converted warehouses plus loads of new skyscraper apartment blocks already built and increasing. The 5G signal on streets with those old buildings is non-existent. Get into a suqare or green space and it's excellent.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Actually you do... Apple or Samsung or OnePlus or similar. The "provider" is the maker of the phone in my paragraph. The provider has the software configured to follow the rules in the SIM card from the mobile network operator. (MNO).

Some networks (notably Three) are trying to flood the country with additional masts for 5G, but others (notably Vodafone, O2, EE) are adding 5G to the existing mast, often in many cases without visually changing them.

Your argument is identical to that in 2012 when people said "I don't need 4G, 3G is good enough", luckily the networks ignored that argument.

The UK has a major problem with saying "this is good enough", we should be more like the rest of the world, Singapore, Germany, USA etc, where customers demand more and crucially get more.

They also don't have council planning departments that ignore scientific experts... we have a major problem as a country that our local and central government roles attract people without scientific, engineering or technology backgrounds. This is our biggest crisis

Edited by zyborg47 (Sat 11-Mar-23 17:58:19)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

My smart phone is Samsung A53 5G

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I have heard that AT&T and Verizon does it, but then that is the U.S and as far as I know both of the networks only supppy phones and not sim only.

Also, from what I have read, they can only do it with Samsung phones. People should not be forced to use 5G if it is no good. What is the point in me having 5G on my phone if half of the time it will not connect and waste my battery?

Only so much space on some masts, the one that I get my signal from when I am home is already full, they would have to remove stuff.

I used 3G on my old phone for a week to see if I would notice the difference, and I did not, it made no difference whatsoever.

My last package was 2GB and yet I would be lucky to use 1GB.

yet we don't need fibre.

Do you really want our phone networks to become like they are in the U.S?

i am fine with what I have got, it does what I need. 4G is reliable, well most of the time, something that 5G is not

Edited by jchamier (Sat 11-Mar-23 18:13:25)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I hate Samsung phones, i would not have one if someone gave one to me.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by pluralist:

will worsen.

Assumption questioned. Why will it? Does 4G work there?

We have a large number of Victorian and other multi-storey office blocks and converted warehouses plus loads of new skyscraper apartment blocks already built and increasing. The 5G signal on streets with those old buildings is non-existent. Get into a suqare or green space and it's excellent.

You're assuming 5G will remain at 3.5 GHz. Which is incorrect.

Networks are already rolling out 5G on the 2.1 GHz band (originally for 3G) and on the relatively newly licensed 700, and Vodafone said they will use their 900 MHz for this.

Don't connect frequency/coverage with radio technology Generation.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Incorrect. SIM only has just started with Verizon, and AT&T limit the phones they let you activate a SIM with, and these policies change almost every 6 months. I bought a Verizon SIM only and activated in my iPad without issue. (Purchased in a retail store using dollars in cash).

Seriously? Not true, the capability to adjust a menus on a phone based on the fitted SIM is built into core Android. Your phone is designed to constantly seek out new connections, of any technology, 2G/3G/4G or 5G. Having support for a technology doesn’t decrease battery life, it just doesn’t work like that! Your phone uses dramtically more battery power to transmit than it does at idle listening to see what is available.

The antenna panels (the bits you see) are designed for certain frequencies or ranges of frequencies. If you have panels that can do 1800 to 2600 MHz, then nothing stops you running 2G, 4G or 5G on those frequencies without touching the antenna. (Some networks may choose to install Massive MIMO antenna for enhanced 5G performance).

In 2012 on the T-Mobile and Three networks you could get nearly 30 Mbps on a 3G connection in an area where few other users. Today you’re lucky to get 8 Mbps… because the spectrum has been moved to 4G. This sort of thing happens all the time, and in the main town near me the 3G has been switched off already.

As everyone has told you, stop assuming what other people need, and stop connecting a technology to a speed. Full optical fibre might just be the way you get your 40 Mbps home internet in 2030. 5G/NR might be the way you get your mobile data so you can use the less than 1Gigabyte for your messages and occasional phone calls in 2030.

Concentrate on what you need in terms of the connectivity, data amount, and price, and let the companies worry about the technology they use to supply you - for the price you want to pay.

have demonstrated you have no idea what you talk about. As you’ve been told many times its the frequency that impacts this, not the protocol. Its like saying HTTPS doesn’t work and FTP does.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Better than Apple iphone as I hate Apple.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

[[/quote]A couple of misunderstandings there about my post .

I meant specifically (Three) 5G just disappears in that environment. 4G/4G+ is fine. I accept things may improve with moves to lower frequencies but even then I have my doubts.

Other network providers may well do better in these parts of Manchester city, but I won't be fitting second SIMs in my phone to find out.

As others have said, currently 5G isn't a necessity on phones anyway. I certainly don't need it.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

As far as I remember, the menu where I can turn on and off 4G on my phone is in a different place than on a Samsung, so a sim would have to send that info back to the network provider. i doubt very much if they will stop people turning off 5G on their phone, they never stopped people turning off 4G, maybe in a few years when 5G becomes the norm

I realise they can operate at a wide range of frequencies, but I did not know they could change them to run 5G, I thought the hardware would need to be different.

Just done a test, about 10Mb/s on 3G and for most part that is fine, can even play music with from a streaming service and also stream videos. I don't understand this need for 4K on a tiny phone screen. I used to have less than that on my home broadband and still watched HD content. 4G I get about 32Mb/s that is indoors. 5G can't be picked up indoors here as I had a friend over who has a phone with 5G over here last week and they could not get 5G and yet according to the Vodafone site as they are on Vodafone, the signal is good indoors and outdoors here., It seems like they have not really tested

Sorry, that should have been I don't need fibre, not we. I don't think I will be bothered in 2030, if I am still alive I will be 63ish, I am more interested in the now. By 2030 they will no doubt bring some over technology that they will say is better than 5G. You say stop connecting technology by speed, but that is what people do and that is what providers do. Most adverts for 5G and fibre is always about the speed. Go onto a website from a provider and again it is all about the speed.

For me, it is about getting something that works for as little costs as I can and hassle. If I get a 5G capable phone, and it is not working as it should then that is hassle, so better to switch off 5G. Fibre is hassle with people having to come in and fit it and from what I have heard from people having problems, I am better off with FTTc

i know it is the frequency, but it is still rubbish, if 5G can't get past building, or inside buildings then it is rubbish.

4G phones are still being made and sold.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Three are already using their new 700 MHz spectrum for 5G, which should easy cover more than any of their existing 4G transmissions. (They are also using it for 4G in areas with high load)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Wrong

From my broadband stats read out Three 5G as band 1, band 3, n78, n78 with download bandwidth (MHz) 10M,15M,100M,30M total 155MHz

Edited by jchamier (Sun 12-Mar-23 10:56:27)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

At a guess you are close to a new Phase 7/8 monopole. Generally need to be with 800 metres to get good speeds.

Edited by adslmax (Sun 12-Mar-23 11:05:17)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I get 5G in the loft only that pointed toward to Doseley Park mast

Edited by jchamier (Sun 12-Mar-23 11:40:33)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

showing/hiding menu options based on a set of options in the SIM is well established on both Android and iPhone.

The box at the base may need its contents changed, but it is possible to transmit 5G (as it it 2G, 3G and 4G) from the same antenna panels. It may be more efficient and cover more people with newer panels.

The 3G speeds are often lower than that in most UK towns, as the capacity is moved to 4G. Speeds depend on so many variables no point discussing that here.

Because its the only thing the marketing departments understand, and they're all trying to poach customers from the competition.

in the years to come it is likely there will be no FTTC and in the same way 4G will go and 5G (and whatever comes next) will replace it. Just go with the flow.

Building penetration is nothing to do with the G, and all to do with frequency and the building construction. If 4G was on that high frequency it would have the same problems.

MediaTek, Qualcomm and the chinese modem/radio vendors are at the point where 3G/4G/5G will be in all the chips. So you may or may not be lucky finding something that is 4G only.

Here in my town we only have 5G in two tiny pools from Three. The rest of the town has great coverage from Vodafone and EE, and passable from O2. So most people here just forget about 5G. It will come in time.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by jchamier:

showing/hiding menu options based on a set of options in the SIM is well established on both Android and iPhone.

Not sure how they can do it if it is in a different menu.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

The problem is even 4G can still be iffy in some parts and I have known my phone fall back to 3G, so what is it going to fall back to when they get rid of 3GH? Oh yes 2G

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I'm guessing this is your 4G mast:
https://goo.gl/maps/w97TV7kMqLqNoUhH6

I can't see a mast at the other postcode, but Google maps isn't great at this anyway. (they're too small from top down).

Edited by adslmax (Sun 12-Mar-23 18:07:57)

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Because you could have more than one area of the settings that respond to data set by the mobile carrier.

They aren't just ripping 3G out and not replacing it. The carriers still "own" the frequencies that they were using for 3G, so they will then use that capacity for 4G or 5G.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Because you could have more than one area of the settings that respond to data set by the mobile carrier.

They aren't just ripping 3G out and not replacing it. The carriers still "own" the frequencies that they were using for 3G, so they will then use that capacity for 4G or 5G.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

My O2 PAYG SIM disables the 5G option on my android phones.

Exactly, the 3G has moved around on O2 and Vodafone from 2.1 GHz to 0.9 GHz and now has been shrunk to the minimum possible before being turned off. On EE and Three its still on 2.1 GHz as they didn’t have any 0.9

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Disable 5G yes, but not stop you turning it off, which is a different thing. If you have a 5G on your phone why would O2 disable it?

I am with smarty sim only contract and even on their lowest priced package they allow access to 5G

How do you know that?

Edited by jchamier (Sun 12-Mar-23 20:29:53)

Edited by pluralist (Sun 12-Mar-23 22:16:28)

In reply to a post by Philce:

I think the issue is that the phone will always try to use the "best" signal.

Often that means it tries to use a poor 5G signal (too far away etc) that gives a perception that the performance is poor.

I keep getting messages from O2 regarding engineering works in the area, so hopefully they are increasing capacity whilst upgrading the masts for 5G.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

See the OP's question in the Subject.

In reply to a post by dect:

To answer this specific question about "Is 5G a con", I would say no I think its badly been implemented across the UK by all providers and also the way in which the bandwidth slices have been sold hasn't helped.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by dect:

To answer this specific question about "Is 5G a con", I would say no I think its badly been implemented across the UK by all providers and also the way in which the bandwidth slices have been sold hasn't helped.

Well that was a few pages back.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

The spectrum isn't sold, its licensed, and the licences aren't forever.

Edited by deleted (Mon 13-Mar-23 17:05:32)

In reply to a post by dect:

Its still valid even if its a day late and a dollar short

Sorry I realised I said sold rather than licensed and should have corrected it.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I think we disagree on "badly" too.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

My only experience of 5G is around Camberley town centre

Edited by jchamier (Thu 16-Mar-23 18:42:24)

In reply to a post by safwanm:

Looks like the Government is pushing for standalone 5G by 2030, hopefully we will see the true capability of 5G speeds. Latency and battery hopefully improves also.

In reply to a post by safwanm:

Looks like the Government is pushing for standalone 5G by 2030, hopefully we will see the true capability of 5G speeds. Latency and battery hopefully improves also.

Edited by jchamier (Tue 11-Apr-23 19:01:13)

In reply to a post by safwanm:

Looks like the Government is pushing for standalone 5G by 2030, hopefully we will see the true capability of 5G speeds. Latency and battery hopefully improves also.

In reply to a post by safwanm:

Interesting points outlined by EE, especially given that they’ll be the ones driving the rollout.

I do agree with your predictions, though do believe the Government will need to provide stronger incentives e.g. bringing back the super deductions to get anywhere near the ‘blanket 5G coverage.’

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

It needs to be more reliable, going by people I know that have 5G phones, around here is no great and people I know that live in large cities like Birmingham., they complain that they lose signal if they go between buildings. the problem is getting masts built, we have had some refused permission around here

In reply to a post by hunnymonster:

In large chucks of rural areas around here having "G" would be a start... never mind 3G/4G/5G. Just a signal capable of having a voice call or SMS successfully delivered.

In reply to a post by safwanm:

To clarify, I meant EE will be the ones to roll this out fastest, not to discredit the work 3 and the others have done. Though, I suspect some slowdown with 3 as merger talks continue.

In regards to blanket coverage, this is what the government are targeting. Do agree it’s not necessary.

Edited by jchamier (Wed 12-Apr-23 19:20:52)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

WE have to remember this, 5G hate heavy rain or heavy snow will result no signal or loss of signal.

VM Gig1 - AAISP L2TP

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 14-Apr-23 15:12:51)

Edited by jchamier (Fri 14-Apr-23 18:01:56)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

WE have to remember this, 5G hate heavy rain or heavy snow will result no signal or loss of signal.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

we've been through that on other threads, but today much of the 5G deployed is at high frequency, and the plan is to use 4G indoors. As the networks develop, lower frequencies will be moved from 3G and 4G to 5G for improved capacity. Think of 5G as adding lanes to a road, if its not congested adding lanes does nothing useful.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I always thought it is by going to the higher frequencies that allow 5G to be faster

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

We will wait and see, but I always thought it is by going to the higher frequencies that allow 5G to be faster, amongst other reasons.

Makes little difference to me at the moment, I want this phone of mine to last for a few more years.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 16-Apr-23 11:33:24)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Early verbal "marketing" of 5G may have been thinking of the mmWave frequencies, so far only deployed in the USA. Insane speeds, but only line of sight, e.g. stadiums, or on the same street.

Otherwise there is more capacity at higher frequencies because there is more, e.g. 700 to 800 MHz is only 100 MHz wide. But 2000 to 3000 MHz is 1000 MHz wide.... more!

When each operator really wants 100 MHz wide for "best speeds" there is more chance of this at higher frequency, but with all the other downsides, requires a dense grid of masts (expensive) and problems receiving indoors.

My employer supplies me a phone (as they took away desk phones) and its an iPhone SE 2nd edition without 5G. Already 3 years old, I'm not sure it will work for another year, I'm hoping its replaced soon.