Connecting to Xilo

I'm moving to Xilo on Thursday and the package I have chosen is the Pro (LLU - TTB). I was hoping somebody here could let me know what to expect when it goes live. I've never purchased a LLU package before so I don't know what to expect connection wise. I know I'll have to put the necessary information into my modem/router which is ok but line wise will it be the same as when I moved to Zen, waiting 10 days for the line to "settle" for your optimum speed to be reached etc. Any help would be appreciated.

Caley.

Once you have left BT, your sync is the speed you transfer at. There was no DLM when I was on LLU many moons ago.

In reply to a post by DrTeeth:

Once you have left BT, your sync is the speed you transfer at. There was no DLM when I was on LLU many moons ago.

After thinking about it, I realise what you mean. As put, to me it means your speed after transfer is the same as before transfer. Which, of course, it probably isn't.

I think you mean your speed is what you receive after transfer and doesn't vary much thereon?

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 15-Apr-14 22:47:40)

No. When I was with LLU, my sync was my download speed and vice-versa. With BT (the 10 days to settle down as the OP put it) one could have a given sync and miss on a higher transfer speed 'cos one was just a tad too slow to go up to the next speed band/profile.

Unless LLU these days has DLM and profiling.

If you are confident in what speeds / noise margin your line can support then you could ask to go on a fixed profile. No need to wait.
For example I asked for a 6db fast path setting the same day the line went live with my TTB Pro package. This can take up to 24 hours to go through.

The downside to this is that if you have a variable quality line then you may end up with an unstable connection as the modem will always connect at (in my example) 6db no matter how bad things get.

?
I know you are quite knowledgeable, so you must be not feeling up to scratch .

That is just gibberish as a post and rubbish with respect to fact. That is not at all like you are normally.

For starters, on any ADSLx connection, BT Wholesale or LLU, there are overheads of typically 13% or a bit more taken from the sync before obtaining the maximum transfer speed, those being made up of the TCP/IP packaging within the internet and the ATM splitting up of those packets between the DSLAM/MSAN and the user modem.

FTTP is a little different in that there are no ATM overheads. Just TCP/IP.

Or, in fewer words, "my sync was my download speed and vice-versa" is impossible.

The best I ever saw was O2/Be LLU where the transfer speed could be as high as 84% of sync.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 15-Apr-14 23:16:50)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think you mean your speed is what you receive after transfer and doesn't vary much thereon?

I read his statement as your throughput is the same as your sync speed, which it can't possibly be due to overheads.

Isn't that what I said? Or were you just agreeing with me .

I do agree with you but hadn't read yours at the time.

I am not leaving BT, it's just keeping my BT line but going through TTB. I'm hoping my speeds will go up a bit. My stats (below) are not what I actually get, it's always less than that mainly on a good day 6.9 down and 370 up but in the evening it's abysmal.


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 19.0 db 11.0 db
Noise Margin 11.6 db 25.0 db

Caley.

Lol, you were with TTB before - which you denied. It will probably be the same as that.

If you can't say anything constructive then please don't say anything. I know what I was on after investigating thank you.

Caley.

Although the voice element of your line will still be with BT the broadband part will be connected to TT equipment in the exchange.
So I stand by my comments above

This is exactly the same product I had apart from line rental being with Plusnet.

You should be good for around 20Mbit sync with that attenuation on a TTB ADSL2+ connection.

Thanks for that. I do hope you're right and when the change over is done I'll let you know how things go with the connections rates etc.

Caley.

In reply to a post by caley:

I know what I was on after investigating thank you.

Caley.

Oh good, what were you on then?

Remember this? You will probably get similar speeds:

In reply to a post by caley:

Hi All.
I've just moved over to Zen this morning and finding my speeds have dropped dramatically. I was with ADSL24 who got gobbled up by Coms recently. The speeds I got with ADSL24 were brilliant. BT says my line will give up to 8mb but I was getting upwards of 13368 Kbps download and 874 Kbps upload with a ping of around 50.

Edited by deleted (Wed 16-Apr-14 09:25:44)

Yaawwwwnnnn. I already said I had investigated but I don't know what I can expect being with Xilo. I must admit I'm not versed up on speed of connections that's why I asked the question here.

Caley.

Edited by caley (Wed 16-Apr-14 10:41:07)

In reply to a post by caley:

I am not leaving BT, it's just keeping my BT line but going through TTB. I'm hoping my speeds will go up a bit. My stats (below) are not what I actually get, it's always less than that mainly on a good day 6.9 down and 370 up but in the evening it's abysmal.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 19.0 db 11.0 db
Noise Margin 11.6 db 25.0 db

That's ADSL (G.DMT) not ADSL2+, so perhaps your exchange is not WBC enabled.

Sync 8128kbps gives a BT Wholesale IP Profile of 7.15Mbps, so your 6.9Mbps is good for that. If it is abysmal in the evening it is either exchange congestion on BT Wholesale circuits there, or if you are connecting wirelessly to your router it could be that getting interference from someone in the area who isn't around in the daytime.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 16-Apr-14 11:20:37)

Is there any reason you won't get the same speeds as before?

In reply to a post by caley:

The speeds I got with ADSL24 were brilliant. I was getting upwards of 13368 Kbps download and 874 Kbps upload with a ping of around 50.

I don't think our exchange even comes into the Lego category never mind WBC. Nothing done since 2006. Fttc has just been activated but I'm one of the unlucky ones who has a EO line. However quite a few around here are EO lines and we've been told that BT should be back here near the end of the year to work on EO upgrades so here's hoping. I think that the slow down is partly exchange congestion but as I was getting 13000Kbps down and 870kbps up when I was with ADSL24 who, unknown to me, started using TT LLU, I'm hoping to get back to that now on Xilo but that remains to be seen.

Caley.

If the exchange is not WBC enabled then only LLU can give you faster than 8128/448 connection speeds, with the IP Profile kicking in as I described earlier. I'm surprised you went to Zen, because of that .

She was unaware she was on LLU.

Show's you how much I know then I'm no expert at this game but I'm learning fast. Web Design and computer building are my business.

Caley.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

?
I know you are quite knowledgeable, so you must be not feeling up to scratch .

That is just gibberish as a post and rubbish with respect to fact. That is not at all like you are normally.

You are too kind sir. All I was trying to get across that on LLU one is freed from the BT line management and artificial speed groups. and Sync is closer to d/l speed rather than some enforced barrier. I hope you can understand what I mean and explain it to others in your clearer style.

On ADSL2+ and FTTx the speed groups were abolished literally years ago. (2011).

On ADSL2+ the IP Profile is 88.2% of sync and normally adjusts immediately. On FTTC it is 96.79% and adjusts immediately.

Compare with O2/Be maximum throughput of about 84% of sync.

Thanks mate.

Happy Easter.

That's me now connected to Xilo with no problems at all. modem light just changed colour, I put in the new details rebooted and change over complete. Glad that's over. Could do with an opinion please. I've put the modem stats below and I don't know a thing about them. Could you tell me if they're good or bad and if they might improve or get worse over the next week or so. Thanks.

Caley


Connection Speed
Downstream Upstream
11811 kbps 1011 kbps

Line Attenuation
21.5 db 10.5 db

Noise Margin
11.9 db 12.7 db

I've lost my trusty online graph that I could mentally apply adjustments to. I'm sure I downloaded it just in case this happened, but ....


Anyway, the attenuation suggests you should get a lot more than 11811kbps downstream. The upstream is reasonably good, as the maximum is around 1.3/1.4Mbps.

What's hitting you is the 11.9dB noise margin. On ADSL2+ I reckon each 3dB over the normal 6dB cost between 700 and 1200kbps.

If the connection was made late today, during dusk or later, I suggest taking the stats (and recording/storing them) any time between 10am and 4pm, then immediately do a single reconnection and take them again as soon as it has reconnected. Then we can see the result and compare the before and after.

We take it from there .

Thanks for the response. I'll check the connection around lunchtime tomorrow then reboot the modem/router and do it again. I'll post the results tomorrow.

Thanks.

Caley.

Bad! Running just over half speed (of 19-20 Meg) only a small part of which is attributable to this high NM:

In reply to a post by caley:

Downstream Upstream
Noise Margin
11.9 db 12.7 db

which is normally 6dB on a good line.

But let's see what you get when you follow Roberto's suggestion.

I'm also looking for high 24/7 variation . Which is why I want the stats immediately before the reconnection as well as after. I've a feeling the TTB default is 9dB anyway, but is readily changed by most of the resellers.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I've a feeling the TTB default is 9dB anyway.

12db.

Matt

Bah!

So fix the guy. That's ludicrous .

Then OP is still running v. slow; should be in the 17 Meg region.

If they'd like to contact us sure...

Matt

Heh .

Can't work out who they are from a forum

Matt

No, I wasn't suggesting you could .

In reply to a post by uno:

Can't work out who they are from a forum

Matt

I believe she lives just down the road from me in Culloden

I've now taken the stats as required and put them below. No idea what they mean but I"m sure you do and will say if I can squeeze any more speed from my line. Really appreciate your help with this.

Caley.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 11811 kbps 1011 kbps
Line Attenuation 21.5 db 10.5 db
Noise Margin 12.1 db 12.6 db




ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 12415 kbps 1023 kbps
Line Attenuation 21.5 db 10.5 db
Noise Margin 12.1 db 12.7 db

In reply to a post by caley:

Caley.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 11811 kbps 1011 kbps
Line Attenuation 21.5 db 10.5 db
Noise Margin 12.1 db 12.6 db

Give Xilo a call and ask them to put you on a 6db noise margin profile, this should give you speeds around 18 meg. You're currently on the default noise margin of 12db which is why your speed is only ~ 12mb.

From a fellow Invernesian

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Give Xilo a call and ask them to put you on a 6db noise margin profile, this should give you speeds around 18 meg.

No way you'd gain 6 Meg from a 6db drop. Best you can hope for is 14-15 Meg.

I thought I might have to get something changed but needed confirmation of what to change from fellow posters in here. I suppose Xilo will be on a break because of it being Good Friday so think I might need to wait till Tuesday when they're all back to work. Hope you're right and I'll get a speed increase but XRaySpeX seems to think your recommendation of a 6mg increase is a bit optimistic.


Caley.

In reply to a post by caley:

I thought I might have to get something changed but needed confirmation of what to change from fellow posters in here. I suppose Xilo will be on a break because of it being Good Friday so think I might need to wait till Tuesday when they're all back to work. Hope you're right and I'll get a speed increase but XRaySpeX seems to think your recommendation of a 6mg increase is a bit optimistic.


Caley.

Sorry, Xray Specs is right, probably overly optimistic to expect a 6 meg increase by a 6db SNR reduction. But you should get at least 15 meg. Also you might want to change your modem/router to match TalkTalk's kit in your exchange, i suspect you're using a broadcom chipset router which is why your speed is a bit low for a 21db attenuation connection - even taking into account your current 12db SNR. I'm on the same exchange (NSICL) and if i use a broadcom router on my TT LLU line i get no more than 15 meg (6db SNR) yet using an Infineon modem (draytek 120) increased this to 17 meg - and this is on a 29db atten line - so you should (in theory) be getting way more than that once your SNR is lowered to 6db.

Edited by deleted (Fri 18-Apr-14 15:22:05)

Yes, the other two have answered the question. You've gaine a fraction by the re-snc but nothing drastic. In a way, that is good. It suggests a stable line .

Note this post. In case you aren't aware, uno = xilo. I would try a phone call, I'm not sure on their hours but a couple of minutes hanging on might prove fruitful. If it doesn't, raise a ticket .

Hi baby_frogmella.
The modem/router I'm using is a Netgear DG834N, bit ancient but it's always been doing the job. What do you suggest I buy for this connection?

Caley.

Thanks for helping. I'm not sure uno is available on the forums on this a bank holiday and I know Xilo is closed over the weekend and on public holidays so it'll be Tuesday before I can use the phone. If I do phone, what am I asking for? Want to get everything right. Don't want to look a wazzuck when I ask for what I need


Caley.

Buy a Draytek 120, its an ADSL2+ modem only so you would need to connect it to your Netgear to use its wireless functions:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DrayTek-Vigor-120-external-E...

When you call up Xilo just ask them to put you on a 6db SNR profile, they'll understand don't worry

Edited by deleted (Fri 18-Apr-14 17:39:27)

You want the downstream Noise Margin reduced from the default 12dB to 6dB. 6dB is standard for most broadband. TTB are being ultra-cautious. Ignore the upstream, that's fine.

I wouldn't assume uno isn't keeping an eye on things, even if support is officially off. Send a ticket! It can't lose you anything, and could work.

Then post the ticket number here to make it easy if he looks in.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 18-Apr-14 17:44:38)

I always buy a modem/router because I like their functionality. You any recommendations for one of them?

Caley.

Right, I'll take your advice and send a ticket. If Uno is watching them just maybe he'll help out. Let you know when it's done.

Caley.

Ensuring that the router pingable is often a good move with an uno TTB partial LLU connection - then Matt and the crew at Xilo can monitor your line for stability once you have got the downstream SNRM set to 6dB.

Good luck.

In reply to a post by caley:

I always buy a modem/router because I like their functionality. You any recommendations for one of them?

Caley.

If money isn't an issue:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vigor-2830N-Router-Firewall-...

This is one is also good:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draytek-Vigor-2710N-Wireless...

Cheap-ish one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Netgear-DGN1000-Wireless-N-R...

Cheap as chips:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NETGEAR-DGN1000-150-Mbps-4...

All these use Infineon chipsets which play well on TalkTalk lines.

Edited by deleted (Fri 18-Apr-14 19:06:42)

In reply to a post by caley:

I always buy a modem/router because I like their functionality.

I wouldn't bin the Netgear DG834N just yet. I could still use my old Netgear DG834DG on my current line and get about the same speeds as my modern ISP-supplied BrightBox. The only reason I don't is that it only has G-wireless. Your low speeds are not attributable to your router.

I believe the matching of router and exchange kit hardware is an urban myth as the communication is all controlled by software at either end which is quite capable of conforming to the required International Telecommunication Union protocol Standards.

I've sent a ticket in, number 2014-04-18-I617. So I hope that I will get a response and an adjustment of the downstream noise margin soon. I'll let you know how things go.

Caley.

Now you already know that my knowledge of communication setup is limited so bear with me here. I have a brand new Netgear N300 Wireless ADSL2+ Modem/Router that's never been out of the box. Would that be any good for this purpose?


Caley.

Talk about fast response. I just sent the ticket in 5 minutes ago and received this response and it's a Public Holiday.

I have placed the order to complete the requested profile change.
This can take up to 24 hours to complete and may only be actioned by the wholesale network during working hours, Monday to Friday.
If after this time you require further assistance, please let us know.

Very impressed with the Support at Xilo.

Have to wait now to see the outcome. Keep you posted.

Caley.

Told ya!

Could be Tuesday before TTB wake up, unfortunately, but at least you are already in the queue there is bound to be.

Probably already done. Not all requests have to be actioned by the LLU network manually

Matt

/me's brain ticks ....

Your brain may well tick because within an hour of me sending the ticket the deed was done. Never known such service. I was with one of the best isp's ever. They were absolutely brilliant, ADSL24. Their customer service were second to none, or so I thought. They were taken over by Coms.com who ruined them within a week. I am an escapee from there. I tried Zen, which I now know was a mistake, no fault of theirs because I didn't think about the service I wanted or rather wasn't sure. It was you folk in these forums that pointed me in the direction of Xilo and I'm so glad you did. They have given me better service than I got at ADSL24 and might I say they took some beating. Take a bow Xilo. Now to the problem. When I noticed last night the adjustment had taken place the speed had gone up to 12mb plus. About twenty minutes later my connection dropped so gave the modem/router a reboot and all was fine till the next drop about twenty minutes later and that happened frequently till late on. I don't switch of the modem/router at all so got up about 3.30am and took a look and it had dropped again but it was connected when I got up this morning about 6.30am and is still connected as I type this. I keep waiting for it to drop. I might add that after it drops if I leave it alone it will reconnect itself. I've added a link to the speed this morning and also the router stats for you to view and see what you think. But I must say I don't like the disconnections. Am I stuck with them?
I also noticed last night when I checked the router stats that the downstream noise margin was at 6.1db if that is important. Should I send in another ticket to Xilo and see what they say?

Caley.

[img]http://speedtest.uk.net/result/495629/[/img]

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15369 kbps 1023 kbps
Line Attenuation 21.5 db 10.6 db
Noise Margin 6.6 db 12.4 db

Edited by caley (Sat 19-Apr-14 07:06:02)

In reply to a post by caley:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15369 kbps 1023 kbps
Line Attenuation 21.5 db 10.6 db
Noise Margin 6.6 db 12.4 db

Your sync speed still looks too low for your short 21db attenuation line...i have a slightly longer line than you (29 db atten) and i'm easily getting 17mb @ 6db SNR, so you should be getting ~ 20 meg. Couple of things to do:

1) Try changing your router to the N300 you have and see if this makes any difference to your disconnections and sync speeds.

2) If the above doesn't make any difference then plug your router into the test socket located behind the BT master socket and leave it connected for a day or two:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm
http://support.zen.co.uk/kb/Knowledgebase/Testing-co...

If the disconnections stop and your sync speed increases then you have issues with your internal wiring and you need to change your filters, get the wiring checked etc. If the issues still persist then the fault lies outside your property and you need to call Xilo and ask them to look into this further.

As well as what baby_frogmella says, have a read of the first, second and last entries on this page, and see if anything there applies to your setup.

All our telephone wires are underground here. We have no telephone poles or electricity poles, everything underground. Handy in a thunder and lightening storm. My filters are newish but I'll change them to make sure it's not them and my phones are cordless, less than 14 months old. So I don't think I'm affected by anything on your site but can't say anything about the neighbours. Don't know what they use at all. I've not had any problems before with my broadband connection wise but just to make sure I've got a telephone engineer booked for Monday morning to check the house wiring and put some new phone sockets in. He worked for BT for 30 years and now he's gone on his own so hopefully he'll know what's what. I'll let you know how that goes. So I think I've covered everything. If the wiring and sockets get the all clear then I don't know what I can do next. I've been home since 12.15 and I don't think the connection has dropped so hopefully it was just glitch and everything will be fine. I'm of to try baby_frogmella's idea and set up the N300 and see if that makes a difference. I'll let you know result.

Caley.

Set up the N300 and the router stats are below. Don't see much of a difference really. The speed is slightly faster. What's your opinion?

Caley.


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Link Rate 15888 Kbps 1023 Kbps
Line Attenuation 19.0 dB 8.7 dB
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 13.1 dB

[img]http://speedtest.uk.net/result/495733/[/img]

In reply to a post by caley:

Set up the N300 and the router stats are below. Don't see much of a difference really. The speed is slightly faster. What's your opinion?

This confirms there's nothing wrong with either of your routers. But like i said earlier, your sync speed is lower than it should be considering you're on a fairly short line. Can you connect the router to the test socket and give us the line stats? (you can move the router immediately after getting the stats)

Edited by deleted (Sat 19-Apr-14 14:18:29)

Means I've got to move it downstairs cause that's where the main box is. I've to go out shortly but I'll give that a try when I get back.

Caley.

Interesting the drop in both down and up attenuation.

Post deleted by caley

Got home late so I'll move one of the computers downstairs tomorrow and set it up to the main box and see what that brings. The connection has cut out a couple of times this evening so it's still happening. Hopefully the telephone guy will give everything the all clear. I'm getting him to replace all sockets around the house, check the wiring and he says he'll check my broadband too, so it'll be a thorough job. If my wiring and sockets are ok what happens next? Never been in this situation before so don't know the steps to take.

Caley.

One thing I had to do when I had ADSL, I connected two filters in series and it fixed whatever issue I had - damned if I cannot remember what it was. Cannot hurt to try.

I was also very impressed with ADSL24. My FTTC moden suddenly started being very sensitive to heat - would cut out frequently. Because BT messed up the visit for a replacement modem, James himself lent me a spare modem and another bit of (unreleased) kit to get me going until the new modem arrived.

Glad you are a happy camper with Xilo, as am I.

When ADSL24 were around I had very few problems and when there were any they were resolved very quickly. Customer service was exemplary, they always knew what to do and say. Ah, miss them but Xilo looks like a great alternative. I've never seen a request handled so quickly even from ADSL24 and that is true praise from someone who was addicted to ADSL24. When I get my wiring checked and sockets replaced tomorrow, and if they're all found to be ok then I'll get back to Xilo and see what they'll do to resolve the problem I'm having of apparently lower than normal speed and the disconnections I'm getting. I'm positive they'll handle the problem professionally and swiftly as they did the other night. I'm hoping to have a long relationship with Xilo as I did with ADSL24 and I'm also positive they'll surpass what ADSL24 did to keep me a happy camper broadband and customer service wise. I'm not very up on communications so I need to have everything spelled out to me in words of one syllable. Amazes me when I come onto this forum how they all chat away in talk that is sometimes gobbledigook to me but I've learned a lot here. When did you leave ADSL24? Were you part of the grand exit in February? What a pity a grand company like ADSL24 had such a horrible demise. Now, you're saying join 2 filters together and put them where, on the main socket or somewhere else?

Caley.

Hi,

I left ADSL 24 when I read that they had first changed hands to Coms and had not told their customers. I read about it first here and that hacked me off. The service itself was still good then so changing was easy too.

I do not have filtered faceplates so had to fit one of those filters that one gets with routers. I just and then connected two together and them out one end in the phone socket and into the other, the modem/router.

Edited by deleted (Sun 20-Apr-14 22:27:44)

Well the connection has dropped quite a bit today. It drops out for a minute or two then reconnects. I've got one of my computers downstairs now and ready to go but I've decided to wait till the telephone guy has replaced the telephone socket tomorrow and tested the wiring to try it out. I'll let you know how things go. I'm hoping to get these line drops solved soon, they're very annoying.


Caley.

That's the testing done and the Telephone guy installed a couple of new sockets around the house and gave everything else a clean bill of health. I've now run a test using the test input in the BT main socket. I've put the results below and also took the stats from my computer which also are below. I can't make sense of them so I hope somebody can and let me know the next step. The line drops are still happening and I would like to get that sorted. Line drops never happened before with any isp so I can't understand why they're happening now. I'm hoping that somebody here will be able to explain all this and advise the correct procedure to take.

Caley.


Test Socket

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Link Rate 18943 Kbps 1023 Kbps
Line Attenuation 18.0 dB 11.1 dB
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 13.6 dB

Main Computer

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 16339 kbps 1023 kbps
Line Attenuation 21.5 db 10.5 db
Noise Margin 6.1 db 12.8 db

That's a big difference between the test socket and the main computer. I would suspect your internal phone wiring to be at fault.

Sadly, I agree. Something is definitely wrong.

It's possible the ring wire is connected, (I meant and forgot to advise that it shouldn't be), but I don't remember that ever being associated with attenuation.

Post deleted by caley

Well all I can say is everything was tested and given the all clear. I made doubly sure that he checked the connections were correct when he installed the new sockets. So I have no idea what's wrong. I might have agreed with you both before the telephone guy came and did the tests but to be told everything was fine after the tests were done, well what else can I say. Would he have checked if the ring wire was connected and would that be the cause of the problem? Remember I didn't have these line drops before the noise margin was dropped so the only other thing I can do is ask for it to be raised again. What's your opinion on that?

Caley.

I think you have two problems.

Whatever is causing the line drops, and the 3dB attenuation gain between the test socket and wherever you took that later reading.

Raising the noise margin is a way of masking problems. The normal value is 6dB, and on a good line 3dB is quite common.

Have a look at this page, and see if anything in the sub-pages looks relevant.

I read most of the pages on your site previously but had a look over again and cannot find anything that pertains to me. I know nothing about wiring so expected the telephone guy to do the right thing. Are you saying he didn't cause I have no idea what he did? I asked him to make sure that all connections were in the right place and correctly secured. What more could I say? He seemed to know what he was talking about and having 30 years BT experience you'd think he'd know what he was doing and talking about. Think I'll have to go back to the original setting much as I don't want to. I'd like to get this sorted, the line drops are annoying to say the least.

Caley.

In reply to a post by caley:

the Telephone guy installed a couple of new sockets around the house

What type of sockets? Can you identify them from here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm ?

In reply to a post by caley:

also took the stats from my computer which also are below.

What do you mean 'from my computer'? You always take the stats using a PC. It's the router stats you are reading from it. Do you just mean using the non-test socket on the front of faceplate?

If you hang fire a minute I've taken a couple of photos and I'll give you a link to view them in a minute.

Caley

I've uploaded 2 photos to the link below. These are the sockets he fitted today. Don't think there is anything wrong with them do you?

Caley.

http://www.petremembrance.co.uk/preview.html

No. The faceplate was off. When I say computer I mean I opened the router admin page using the computer. The address for my router is 192.168.0.1 and took the stats from the router status page.

Caley.

So what's the diff between the 2 sets of readings, Test Socket vs Main Computer? They are both taken from your PC using the test socket, you seem to be saying.

Sockets look good externally, but there could still be wiring faults within them. Worth checking and disconnecting ring wires as suggested.

The "Test Socket" readings were taken when the router was plugged into the "Test Socket" behind the face plate of the socket with the bar across it. The "Main Computer" readings were taken from the router admin page at 192.168.0.1.

Caley.

Just texted the telephone guy to doubly check he disconnected the bell wire.

Caley.

In reply to a post by caley:

The "Test Socket" readings were taken when the router was plugged into the "Test Socket" behind the face plate of the socket with the bar across it. The "Main Computer" readings were taken from the router admin page at 192.168.0.1.

I know we are being a bit pernickety here, but please bear with us . The attenuation change is very odd, and you can see there is a significant connection speed difference.

The socket with the bar across it - is that the "1 of these" in your pictures, or a different one that looks the same, or something else? What socket was the "Main Computer" plugged into for the second set of stats?

Still very

There are a no. of factors for taking any stats reading, all of which are common to all readings:

1. The PC/device & browser on which the readings are displayed.
2. The IP addy used to access the router's GUI admin pages - always 192.168.0.1 in your case.
3. The socket the router is plugged into.

You have banged on about 1.) but it will be the same in both cases and it isn't at all important. However, you have never told us 3.) which socket was used for your 'Main Computer' readings. This is most important to know. Or perhaps you said they were also in the hidden test socket, but that can't be the case with such diff. readings.

There must be some difference between the circumstances of taking the 2 readings as the 2 sets of stats are significantly different, particularly the attenuations.

What am I missing?

This is becoming far too complicated.

The picture that says "1 of these" is where the test socket is and where the router was plugged into for the test.

The picture that says "3 of these" is where the computer was plugged into which enabled me to take the stats for the second test.
I do hope that is clear now.

Caley.

Can you use "1 of these " for the 2nd test, please?

If there's any wiring attached to the back of the faceplate on "1 of these", can you upload a photo, please?

This is a wind up right? Enough's enough.

No, you changed too many variables in your testing. Test 1 was in the test socket. Test 2 was in a different socket which brought additional wiring and an additional socket into play.

Edited by deleted (Mon 21-Apr-14 20:32:34)

In reply to a post by caley:

This is a wind up right?

Not at all! This is all serious in order to help you. Please bear with us.

You now tell us that the 'Main Computer' stats were from a '3 of these' socket which is actually an extension socket. The '1 of these' socket is the master socket. For the 'Test Socket' stats did you plug the router into the front of the master? The test socket isn't the master socket itself but a hidden test socket that you see by removing the faceplate of the master and looking at the part behind it. Did you use that?

From the fact that you got worse stats and an higher attn. from an extension socket proves that the extension wiring is faulty.

In reply to a post by caley:

This is a wind up right? Enough's enough.

No.

You have what ought to be an impossible pair of stats form the same system. It's just we all have a different way of expressing ourselves, and a different amount of history in helping people who like you, (you said yourself at least twice ), know next to nothing about the subject.

We all want to help.

Anyway - thanks for clarifying the sockets used for those two tests. I'd like you to do two things. The first is simple, the second easy enough but possibly very important. These are best done well inside daylight hours - during dawn, dusk and night-time a disconnect and reconnect almost always lowers your connection speed. (Though if it does, then it improves the stability).

First, please can you take the router back to the master socket, (the 1 of), and just get the stats plugged in there as normal. Not removing it to get to the test socket. Post those stats.

Second, unplug the router from the faceplate and remove the faceplate. Be careful, as there may be wires attached! If there aren't, then we have found a major problem.

If there are, leave it off and please go to every extension socket in the house in turn, both the ones he fitted and any that were already there, taking a phone with you. The base station if you only have cordless. Plug the base station or phone in and see if you get a dial tone. Remember - this has to be at every socket apart from the master.

If you get a dial tone at any, again we have found the same problem. Make a note of which ones work.

Finally, whatever does or doesn't show up there, when you go to replace the faceplate on the master, look to see if there are two wires or three attached. If two, they will be in terminals 2 and 5. If three, there will also be one in T3. That's the ring wire which messes up broadband.

Re your ex-BT engineer, I don't doubt his capability with respect to the phone wiring itself, but there is a possibility that he is ignorant of some "no-no"s that are fine for phone only and very bad for broadband.

It sounds a lot, but has to be done as the first step.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Can you use "1 of these " for the 2nd test, please?

Is there any point? It'll be same as OP's 1st test. From the 2nd test we now know, as you pointed out, that the extension wiring is degrading the connection.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

For the 'Test Socket' stats did you plug the router into the front of the master? The test socket isn't the master socket itself but a hidden test socket that you see by removing the faceplate of the master and looking at the part behind it. Did you use that?

A good point. I didn't think of that. (Drafting mine while you were doing yours ).

I wonder if he has cross-wired a pair. I don't meant used split pairs, but wired T2 to T5 and vice versa somewhere?

I've no idea what the effect is, but believe for the phone it doesn't matter. For broadband apparently it does.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 21-Apr-14 21:49:20)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you get a dial tone at any, again we have found the same problem. Make a note of which ones work.

<<--- Here--->>

Finally, whatever does or doesn't show up there, when you go to replace the faceplate on the master, look to see if there are two wires or three attached. If two, they will be in terminals 2 and 5. If three, there will also be one in T3. That's the ring wire which messes up broadband.

Between those 2 steps the OP should plug router into hidden test socket now revealed and take the stats. We don't know if what the OP calls the 'test socket' is just the external of the master socket.

Yes, I've already acknowledged that, but I posted before reading what you asked her. See my reply to your a bit ago .

Yes, I'm just completing your excellent sequence of tests .

You edit it in and I'll delete mine.

My concern all along has been that OP is confused what test socket actually is.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 21-Apr-14 22:00:14)

I think caley will see what you mean. She may not know anything about wiring, but she is far from stupid .

Sounds like the ADSL2+ downstream frequencies are getting hammered by something - even the OP's ADSL1 connection was apparently border line in terms of throughput:

Wed 16-Apr-14 06:43:31 - "My stats (below) are not what I actually get, it's always less than that mainly on a good day 6.9 down and 370 up but in the evening it's abysmal.


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 19.0 db 11.0 db
Noise Margin 11.6 db 25.0 db"

If as you suggest when connected to the test socket, after having established that none of the extensions are live, then the problem is probably exchange side of the NTE5 if the DSL continues to drop frequently.

Loop loss also seems rather extreme via the home wiring though!!!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

even the OP's ADSL1 connection was apparently borderline in terms of throughput:

Not at all! 6.9 Meg throughput down from 8.13 Meg sync is perfectly normal particularly on G.DMT. It's 85% of sync, as good as you can expect. Same goes for upstream.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

even the OP's ADSL1 connection was apparently borderline in terms of throughput:

Not at all! 6.9 Meg throughput down from 8.13 Meg sync is perfectly normal particularly on G.DMT. It's 85% of sync, as good as you can expect. Same goes for upstream.

Yes on a "good day" when presumably sync'd at 8128Kbps, 12dB SNRM, fastpath

Yes. In the OP's post you quoted she was complaining about slow throughput in evenings which will be down to ADSL Max congestion not modem frequencies. So I can't see it has any bearing on present ADSL2+ issues.

I take your point, guess I read it as an intermittent performance problem, symptoms of which were noticeably poor throughput, and not just an ADSL MAX evening congestion issue.

Never implied she was. Just trying to simplify things by putting it all in 1 place.

Right we've all reached the conclusion that I'm not stupid and I heartily agree with that. I have been working with Xilo support for a wee while and things seem to have improved thanks to Matt. My speed has increased and everything seems to be stable. Haven't had a line drop at my end for more than 48 hours. Thought I'd like your opinion on how things look and of course suggestions. I was a bit miffed when I last posted on here, whether it was my inability to explain myself or others who couldn't see what I was trying to say, frustration crept in and I thought I'd be better away. Now that things have calmed, I hope that you can all help me by looking at my stats and giving your opinion on them. RobertoS was right when he mentioned the bell wire. I got the BT guy back and asked him if he'd removed it and he hadn't. When he did the speed increased. Thanks for that. I've added the stats below for your opinion and I should add I've dumped the DG834n modem/router and replaced it with a N300.

Caley.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Link Rate 18023 Kbps 1023 Kbps
Line Attenuation 18.5 dB 11.3 dB
Noise Margin 6.9 dB 13.2 dB

In reply to a post by caley:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Link Rate 18023 Kbps 1023 Kbps
Line Attenuation 18.5 dB 11.3 dB
Noise Margin 6.9 dB 13.2 dB

Its good to hear your speed has increased & disconnections have stopped but you're still syncing a few meg short of what your line is actually capable of. On a downstream attenuation of 18db you should be getting closer to 21 meg:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php

Next week i'm getting fibre installed on my TalkTalk Business line so will no longer need the Draytek 120 modem. If you want i can lend it to you to see if it makes a difference. You can either pick it up or it can be dropped off. I live at the top of Tower Road near the Codfather chippy in Westhill. PM me if you're interested

Edited by deleted (Mon 28-Apr-14 08:39:08)

Connected at 18000kbps. That will be the best you have ever had, even compared to when on ADSL24. The wonders of the ring wire.

What time of day was it when you made the connection? If it was dark or near dark that could explain the 6.9dB noise margin. A daytime reconnection might give a slight improvement.

Trying the offered loan Draytek may be a good idea if you want to turn into a speed freak like most of us , but as I said - your real life speed I bet is now better than it has ever been.

All the best. Enjoy!

I took the stats about 07.10am this morning not from the "hidden test socket" but from the connection on my computer. I'm incapacitated at the moment, busted ligament in my knee, so can't move the computer down stairs to take a reading. I was thinking the stats I gave you this morning were not bad am I wrong? I'm very happy with the speed I am getting. You were right, more than I got with ADSL24 and more than I ever got with the other isp I was with. Matt even got me a bit more by guiding me to do this and that.

Caley.

Downstream attenuation is now good at 18.5dB on the extension - probably means that the bellwire was causing the problems but happily your extension wiring seems to be good quality twisted pair

Edit: BTW the uno PPP link (internet) has dropped a couple of times for short periods on my line over the last week: this was not a DSL drop since my router remained sync'd to the exchange. There can sometimes be confusion between PPP link and DSL issues which can appear the same, i.e. the computer's internet connection, if one doesn't check the router.

Edited by 4M2 (Mon 28-Apr-14 11:32:43)

In reply to a post by caley:

... busted ligament in my knee ....

!Expletives deleted!

All the best with getting that sorted. Keep in touch.

In reply to a post by caley:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Link Rate 18023 Kbps 1023 Kbps
Line Attenuation 18.5 dB 11.3 dB
Noise Margin 6.9 dB 13.2 dB

That's much better from the extension socket. The bell wire did the trick. A resync during daylight might gain you a bit more, Well done!

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 28-Apr-14 19:09:00)

Fed up with ice packs and physiotherapy and crutches, got the orthopedic clinic tomorrow, hope they won't be looking at surgery

Caley.

Not the brightest I know, but what's a daylight resync?

Daylight - that stuff (sometimes) we live in when the sun is up .

Resync - reboot the router is the simplest, and the simplest way of doing that is to power it off for 5 minutes then power it up again.

The reasoning is that electromagnetic noise is higher during dusk, night and dawn than it is well inside daylight hours. The connection speed is affected a bit by that.

By connecting during daylight hours there is less noise so you get a slightly higher speed than if you connect at night, and it appears your latest connection was outside daylight hours. (Being cloudy doesn't matter, but thunderstorms within a few miles are bad news).

However, the higher the speed on your line the less stable it is. The lower the speed the more stable.

I think in your case, although IIRC I suggested a daytime resync earlier, given the improvement compared to the past I think I'd just let it stay as is for the moment .

In reply to a post by caley:

Not the brightest I know, but what's a daylight resync?

Doing a resync when that orange, round thing is or should be in the sky .
DrT

then I hope she does't live in Wales or Birmingham,lol