Plusnet and 90 day guarantee

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone else had had problems with plusnet honouring the terms of their 90 day guarantee?

I moved from Zen to Plusnet about 2 months ago and made sure that I opted into the guarantee by ticking the box, I know for a fact that I ticked the box as I was nervous about moving from an isp like Zen.

Anyway, after 2 months I have decided to move back to Zen and now plusnet claim that I didn't opt in to the guarantee which I know I did - anyway, they can keep the money to be honest, the fact that they seem to operate like this reassures me that I am doing the right thing moving away, I just wondered whether this was common practice for them?

Anyone else had this?

They have always been like this: easy to join and hard to leave.

In reply to a post by bunter12345:

Anyone else had this?

Yes. Trying to leave under the 90 day no risk guarantee has been a nightmare - I asked to get out after just a month of the trial after realising things weren't as anticipated. They tried to delay my MAC till I would agree to speak to someone who could offer me new exciting products to make me stay! Then they at first denied I was on the trial, and only "gave in" when I was able to show them I had it in writing from them, then tried to still charge me exit charges and threatened legal action as I refused to accept the charges.

Only escalation got me out of it in one piece - though the raised blood pressure may take some time to recover from.

Worst ever customer services I've ever met.

Yes. Trying to leave under the 90 day no risk guarantee has been a nightmare - I asked to get out after just a month of the trial after realising things weren't as anticipated. They tried to delay my MAC till I would agree to speak to someone who could offer me new exciting products to make me stay! Then they at first denied I was on the trial, and only "gave in" when I was able to show them I had it in writing from them, then tried to still charge me exit charges and threatened legal action as I refused to accept the charges.

Only escalation got me out of it in one piece - though the raised blood pressure may take some time to recover from.

Worst ever customer services I've ever met.
-----
Any moment now, a PlusNet damage limiter will pop up here to pretend that this was a one-off agent error and to promise "re-education". They eventually let you go but the front line agents are obviously trained to lie and do anything it takes to stop customers exercising their right to leave.

Anyone who ties themselves in to this lot for 12 or 18 months must be a masochist.

Simon

.........They eventually let you go but the front line agents are obviously trained to lie and do anything it takes to stop customers exercising their right to leave............

Oh dear!....here we go with the conspiracy theory again. People on the front line "trained to lie", "do anything it takes to stop customers exercising their right to leave"...... you do have a high opinion of your fellow humans. You do imply that people are turned to the "Dark Side" when they join this organisation.

I don't think it at all reasonable to make such a sweeping statement which is an insult to honest hard working staff on so little evidence, not that you would acknowledge any work for this company going on this and past postings. Still has the ring of an evil empire to me. 'Tis just an ISP you know, no more no less.

Your slip is showing again methinks.

In reply to a post by Sadoldman:

.........They eventually let you go but the front line agents are obviously trained to lie and do anything it takes to stop customers exercising their right to leave............

Oh dear!....here we go with the conspiracy theory again.

No conspiracy theory; as I said, they have always been like this.

Hi there,

If you want to give me some details from your account via PM (username or a ticket ID) I'll take a look and see if I can sort this out for you.

In reply to a post by Sadoldman:

Oh dear!....here we go with the conspiracy theory again. People on the front line "trained to lie", "do anything it takes to stop customers exercising their right to leave"...... I don't think it at all reasonable to make such a sweeping statement which is an insult to honest hard working staff on so little evidence,

From my experience I can confirm the initial attitude of the staff was to try and deny I was taking part in the 90 day trial, as in "there's nothing I can see about you being on the trial". Only when I was able to show them I had separate written confirmation of my trial did they "give in" on that.

I discovered that recently Plusnet pulled this trial - and have removed any mention of it from their main website. Anyone currently on the trial and deciding to leave will have difficulty locating the terms and conditions. During my conversations with the "front line" (prior to escalating the matter), they would refer to the "conditions of the offer" to reinforce what they were (wrongly) saying, and when I argued the conditions didn't actually say what they claimed they said, I was questioned on how I knew what was in the offer conditions, and they were stumped to learn I had saved a copy at the time of my sign up!

Regarding "lies" - I have discovered on the tickets system that phone conversations have been written up "incorrectly". After pointing out the innacurracies and asking for either a correction or a transcript of the conversation the reply ignored the complaint about the innacuracy and refused to supply a transcript.

So either keep verbatim notes or record your conversations if they are of a "contractual" nature!

Edited by OES (Mon 09-Mar-09 10:21:13)

Any moment now, a PlusNet damage limiter will pop up here

Interesting who it was.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

They have always been like this: easy to join and hard to leave.

What is exceedingly obvious is that the Customer Service often commented favourably on by some posters is frequently far from being demonstrated. In fact quite the opposite.

If CS is good, why are there so many complaints on this forum dealt with by ChrisParr and Mand_Beckett? PM them and they will look into it!!!

Why is that necessary so frequently?

They have been fine for me.

Ah but those of us who deal with Plus all the time know that the happy shiny front they have is utter tosh. Otherwise why make customers signing up to a 12 month agreement actually sign up to 18 and then "request" what they wanted later.

Or have a difficult to use guarantee.

Less rose tinted glasses please.

In reply to a post by therioman:

Ah but those of us who deal with Plus all the time know that the happy shiny front they have is utter tosh. Otherwise why make customers signing up to a 12 month agreement actually sign up to 18 and then "request" what they wanted later.

Or have a difficult to use guarantee.

Less rose tinted glasses please.

Not quite with you on that.

Nothing to do with 12/18 month contracts or even the company if it comes to that...I just don't believe that in general that front line staff should en mass be accused of being taught to lie by management.... and are prepared to do so. You will get bad eggs for sure but c'mon all that effort for such a little reward.

The defects of a company should be pointed out for sure, I have no rose tinted glasses, caveat emptor every time...but take the fight to the people who manage the company, not the people on the front line.

With regard to the long contract, I happen to believe that a customers trump card is the ability to take his business elsewhare...so I would always advise anyone to think long and hard before throwing it away. More so as what seems good today may not be good next week...this BBS is proof of that

With regard to the long contract

But are you aware of the upgrade from the old packages to the new, where at no point in the upgrade process are you told that the 18-month contract you are entering can be reduced to 12-months by raising a ticket afterwards, and that nowhere is this mentioned by Plusnet in the T & Cs or elsewhere except in a single post on Plusnet's own forum? In fact I believe even the 18-month bit is only mentioned in a footnote on the last page of the process.

Even the ticket method only came as a concession when early complaints were made, and it seems absolutely clear that the management intend to lock people into the 18 months whenever possible.

That stinks!

You will get bad eggs for sure but c'mon all that effort for such a little reward
-----
Depends what the latest policy is... It looks increasingly like BT has started to micro-manage PlusNet and that the corporate mantra is now to sign up everyone to the longest contract possible at almost any cost.

Not sure how many of the complaints on here you have actually read but when customers complain about agents who keep insisting that white is black, even when customers point out the error of their ways, this moves out of the realm of "bad eggs" into a company-wide policy of profiting by disinformation.

How many times have we been here before with PlusNet? Even so, you seem not to have twigged yet that it has always been their policy to milk the masses while appearing to do well by the minority who speak up in public forums.

One day the penny will drop.

Simon

Yes we are sure flooded with complaints about what a bad ISP Plus Net are on here.. can't move for them, hard to keep up isnt it... 200,000 customers and so many posts...

Bad points yes, recent change of direction hard to justify but the dark and evil empire or a poor ISP to the core only in your dreams Simon...

Plusnet is fine for me.

Well there seem to be 700-1000 not fully pleased according to this comparison.

Looking at that chart, they have won the wooden spoon for the last 4 months.

Looking at it a different way

In reply to a post by reserved:

Looking at it a different way

Indeed !

An excellent list of ISPs whose users aren't generally impressed.

.........Even the ticket method only came as a concession when early complaints were made, and it seems absolutely clear that the management intend to lock people into the 18 months whenever possible.

That stinks!..........

Fair comment I reckon....my views on long contracts have been stated. I would add that people should have the opportunity to to make an informed decision...and have all the facts available.

Looking at it a different way

Tends to suggest you think Plusnet are the best of the worst

Micro managed by BT or old habits from PN.

Make your mind up.

>>One day the penny will drop.

I have no illusions about ISPs, nor loyalties, it is a business no more no less. Loads of them and each to his own. I do have the illusion thought that front line staff should not be maligned by being accused of being complicit in a conspiracy to lie.

Mess up or conspiracy?...I go for mess up every time,.... now that is something that people are good at.

Yep "mess up" is a euphemism

Me too and I came over from Zen no probs so far

Ironically I'll be doing a cease soon.

I have the offer terms if you no longer have them, and would be pleased to help out with a copy if you need them, as from my experience they try to take advantage of the offer no longer being on their website by "making up" the offer conditions to their advantage.

Also be prepared for them trying to say they don't know anything about you having been on the trial.

I'm just doing a full cease on BB and telephone. Cutting my clothe during the credit crunch.

Sad to hear...

It's due to the utilties firms being greedy, imo.

Hi GP, I would be sad to see you leave these fora. Will you have an alternative means of connecting to the 'net such as sharing a neighbour's connection?

I have my telephone service from Primus Planet Talk (Option 1) which costs £9-49 / month including weekend and evening calls and Caler Display. I assume that you are not in a Market 3 area!

There is also the TalkTalk all inclusive Telephone and Broadband service for £16 odd if you are in their LLU area.

It can't have been an easy decision and I wish you all the best.

R (born 11 months before you).

I will have access via local library and my neighbour (on AOL)
Will have it all sorted by June,unless it snows.
64 this June eh ?

Edited by deleted (Wed 11-Mar-09 23:24:38)

Yer both young yet, June 44 was a better year than June 45!

... not enough difference for an argument.

In reply to a post by Sadoldman:

Nothing to do with 12/18 month contracts or even the company if it comes to that...I just don't believe that in general that front line staff should en mass be accused of being taught to lie by management.... and are prepared to do so. You will get bad eggs for sure but c'mon all that effort for such a little reward.

Well sure, maybe they don't intentionally tell people, but I suspect they don't go out of the way to highlight these misunderstandings unless absolutely forced to. Otherwise given Plusnet trumpet how good the systems they have are, these issues wouldn't arise as surely "workplace" would know about the guarantee being on the account and give appropriate data to the "Agent"... etc -- seems a little odd it always "forgets" promotions (this isn't the first time) but always remembers cessation charges, length of contract etc.

And believe me, these little "misunderstandings" can help someone keep business - I have a scenario where I have a circuit with Pipex of all people. I want to migrate it elsewhere, but 6 motnhs in, many attempts to get a MAC and still nothing (well they've sent me 2 MACs but they're clearly invalid), so I continue to pay them though I don't want to, and now I'm in a position where I'm going to have to sign a new 12 month with them, even though I don't want them. I'm not the sort of person to take this and have been fighting via them, Ofcom etc etc and nothing. It's impossible to get them to budge - they just couldn't care less. I know Pipex happen to have been investigated for such, but Plusnet seems to have this hidden culture there right behind the fluffy "communities" and the "proactive" nature they display here.

With regard to the long contract, I happen to believe that a customers trump card is the ability to take his business elsewhare...so I would always advise anyone to think long and hard before throwing it away. More so as what seems good today may not be good next week...this BBS is proof of that

Well sure, which is why Plusnet use long term contracts, guarantees with more catches than you can imagine and so on to keep people in - so when it goes bad, customers don't defect.

In reply to a post by Wheel_Nut:

... not enough difference for an argument.

That's asking for trouble, with GOM about! I'll tell my Dad about you, and he's bigger than your Dad - or would be if either of them were alive.

.

In reply to a post by OES:

I have the offer terms if you no longer have them, and would be pleased to help out with a copy if you need them, as from my experience they try to take advantage of the offer no longer being on their website by "making up" the offer conditions to their advantage.

Also be prepared for them trying to say they don't know anything about you having been on the trial.

Hello OES, I wouldn't mind having that information about me as I am very unhappy with Plusnet service at the moment. Usually like yourself I would have that information about me but have found myself wanting this time.
I have email address enclosed in PM to you. Thanks.

My elder sister would agree.

Edited by deleted (Thu 12-Mar-09 17:03:44)

.....Well sure, which is why Plusnet use long term contracts, guarantees with more catches than you can imagine and so on to keep people in - so when it goes bad, customers don't defect.............

The long term contracts are a new departure and without a doubt the packages now offered are dramatically different...and many would argue nowhere near as customer friendly...on the old packages customers had total freedom of movement...on the new ones very little it seems.

The issue that I addressed was the 90 day guarantee that was specific to the old packages where 30 days notice was in force and the ability to leave via a MAC was not the issue. It was the suggestion that there was a conspiracy to by staff to lie and defraud customers of their rightful due under the terms of the guarantee when they wished to leave, that people had issues I don't argue.

You mention Pipex, I think that the issues have been well known by many for quite a while. I would also venture that it is again more down to incompetence/poor management than a conspiracy by staff for most of the issues. I suspect the staff did not enjoy their work much over the last year or so...but I would not try to blame them for the situation they found themselves in.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating...you only have to look at Pipex and the parent company to see if hanging on to a few quid from customers has reaped them any long term benefits. They are open to offers if you wish to buy them.

Buttons are OK as long as they are very shiny ones.

In reply to a post by RogN:

Yer both young yet, June 44 was a better year than June 45!

I can claim to be more August than thou, though younger.

Depends on what you mean by "alive".

Paying taxes and aching all over 24/7.

Hmmmmm..... of those, paying Taxes would seem to hurt less.

Did I really say that?

Nurse,he's out of bed again.

Chris, further to the PM that I sent you, I am still being messed about by customer services. Having accepted that I am on the 90 day guarantee I am now told that I will no longer have to pay the extra £5 odds which is the pro-rate part of my rental up to when I migrated but are ignoring my requests for my previously paid charges to be returned.

why are plusnet so difficult to deal with?

Since PlusNet have (wilfully) removed the MBG page from their website, I have asked TBB if they will host the details of the scheme in a sticky in this forum for the benefit of customers who may not be given accurate details on the 'phone to PlusNet.

If they are willing to do so, would you be happy to forward a copy to them?

Simon

with the exception of the word wilfully I would fully support this.

Do you mean this one http://www.plus.net/features/promotions/terms_90_day... or this one http://www.plus.net/press/press_releases/27062007.shtml

Edited by deleted (Sat 14-Mar-09 20:17:04)

so perhaps Simon you would care to withdraw your allegations

http://www.plus.net/features/promotions/terms_90_day...
-----
I confess that I had taken it in good faith, from other posts, that the page had been taken down -- and this seemed to be confirmed by the fact that, in three days, no PlusNet damage limiter has popped up to correct the notion by providing the url. Since PlusNet are usually fast out of the blocks when such errors are made by posters in a public forum, it seemed safe to assume that it wasn't an error...

Is it possible that this page has just been re-uploaded?

If it is a live page and has always been live, can anyone tell me how to navigate to it from PlusNet's Home page?

When I try to backtrack to http://www.plus.net/features/promotions/ I get a blank page. And http://www.plus.net/features/ simply routes back to the Home page. I tried various ways to navigate from the Home page back to the page you have quoted and couldn't find any road which leads to it.

I did find this page which _should_ lead to it but doesn't: http://www.plus.net/offerterms/

In truth, it looks very much like an island page which has no route into it -- which raises the possibility that it has been re-uploaded in response to complaints in this thread.

I did manage to find it by doing a Search for '90 day' but the search index could have been updated when the page was re-uploaded.

Simon

Why would we need to host it, nothing stopping people posting it in a post is there.

Or is the simplest path sometimes too simple

Just did a search on the home page for 90 day guarantee and got this.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 14-Mar-09 22:35:14)

perhaps it got hidden behind the grassy knoll

as an expert on conspiracy theory perhaps Simon could let us have his theory on the Kennedy assasination.

I got that too (as I stated) -- but it doesn't answer any of my questions.

Simon

looks like the 90 days has gone since the start of the 18 month contract,

Simon,

You really should find a hobby or an interest in some of the finer things in life.

R

In reply to a post by Wheel_Nut:

You really should find a hobby

He has. It is called watching PlusNet everywhere and bashing them where possible

In reply to a post by microbar123:

looks like the 90 days has gone since the start of the 18 month contract,

That's the point.

It isn't available for joiners, but it still applies to people who joined while it was available, on the old packages. (Though it seems you had to opt in, which seems wierd for a guarantee! But that's history - except there seem to be cases of customers being told they didn't opt in whne they know they did. That's a different story).

And other have the hobby of commenting on it

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

Do you mean this one http://www.plus.net/features/promotions/terms_90_day...

Hmm that is interesting, especially item 6:

6. This offer only applies where the customer remains on a broadband product and requests to "Leave" within the qualifying period. It does not apply to free or subscription dial-up services.

which seems to differ to what I was told here http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/showthreaded.php?Bo...

In reply to a post by kenr:

which seems to differ to what I was told here http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/showthreaded.php?Bo...

It's slightly off topic as the discussion is about the difficulty of finding the terms and taking advantage of them, but I don't think that clashes at all because the new products did not exist at the time those terms were introduced.

What you could possibly argue in the other thread is that the wording implicitly means you can change package to a new one that didn't exist at the time and the balance of the 90-day period should still be available to you.

Not the original q was

I was wondering if anyone else had had problems with plusnet honouring the terms of their 90 day guarantee?

Which is similar to what I asked, i.e. If I changed packages would it be honored.

Edited by kenr (Sun 15-Mar-09 12:21:05)

In reply to a post by kenr:

Which is similar to what I asked, i.e. If I changed packages would it be honored.

Similar yes. But your own thread is quite specific, and which do you think is the best place to argue the toss?

Anyway, it's your problem not mine, tackle it however you think best .

I for one am very grateful to Simon for monitoring the appalling plusnet.

They are not appalling .. just a bog standard ISP.

When were you a customer or have you ever been a customer?

When were you a customer or have you ever been a customer?

How predictable

In reply to a post by wingco1:

When were you a customer or have you ever been a customer?

How predictable

But it did take a fanboy over 3 hours to appear.

I found the reference to "bog standard" quite amusing as well. But all in the best possible taste!!!

To no one in particular the OP is perhaps still waiting for one issue to be resolved if a read his post correctly so perhaps we could stop these side issues guys and galls.

I don't want to close it but I would if it turns into a ping pong contest.


And I regard your last post as a pong wingco.

I don't want to close it but I would if it turns into a ping pong contest.
-----
It would be a shame to close it before someone illustrates how to find PlusNet's MBG details web page using nothing more than a mouse, starting from their Home page... I guess there must be a way and I'm thinking of maybe offering a reward for it.

Simon

Makes me glad I left Metronet just before Plusnet sucked them completely in, other wise it may have been a long process to move ISP.

R.I.P Metronet

It would be a shame to close it before someone illustrates how to find PlusNet's MBG details web page using nothing more than a mouse

Can you try something for me? Google for ADSL without using your keyboard or your RMB.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Can you try something for me? Google for ADSL without using your keyboard or your RMB.

Easy, highlight the word and drag it to the search box with the LMB in firefox.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Easy, highlight the word and drag it to the search box with the LMB in firefox.

Ok Same way, copy the "90 day guarantee" from here to the firefox search box, open the plusnet home page and then do the same and drag it from the FF search box to the plusnet search box on the home page

And what do you get?
(Click on the 2nd item)

Not allowed. Rules state you must start at PlusNet's Home page.

Simon

In reply to a post by kenr:

open the plusnet home page

Isn't that WHAT I Said?

In reply to a post by kenr:

Isn't that WHAT I Said?

No, you just proved it's an orphan page only accessible if you know what to search for.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

No, you just proved it's an orphan page only accessible if you know what to search for.

However, anybody wanting details of the 90 day guarantee de facto knows what to search for.

The failure to re-introduce a link for the benefit of customers still within its terms though seems as deliberate as failing to tell customers upgrading from a legacy package to a new one that the 18 month contract can be (why not IS) reduced to 12 months if you raise a ticket (that shouldn't be necessary).

A strict reading of the terms of the 90 day guarantee actually mean that it should be carried over as well when people move to a new package. Yet another dodgy practice that someone involved in it should challenge, as it was denied in another thread.

The failure to re-introduce a link for the benefit of customers still within its terms though seems as deliberate as failing to tell customers upgrading from a legacy package to a new one that the 18 month contract can be (why not IS) reduced to 12 months if you raise a ticket (that shouldn't be necessary).

I think that this is the fundamental point at the core of this issue.

Why an "opt in" for both a 90 day guarantee and a reduction to a 12 month contract when I see no reason, unless I've missed something, for not wanting this option.

There is no doubt both these issues have caused confusion and aggravation to both customers and front line staff. A system to automatically opt you in unless some juicy carrot was provided to not want what seems a desirable cost free option would have saved all this confusion.

My guess is that the 90 day guarantee was marketing led without being thought thought and a proper system in place to monitor it, same a the changing products issue, that arrangement seems very ad hoc. Mess up rather than conspiracy in my view...but that does not make the ISP any less culpable as both these customer benefits should be bestowed automatically IMO.

If it was the intention of management to hope people would not take up these options,...... then I reckon they have shot themselves in the foot.

Spot on bar two very similar points, and to me a coincidence too many.

If it was not senior management's intention to hope people failed to opt in to the 90 day guarantee why was it made an opt-in? That required more work than an automatic guarantee. Its existence was a major feature of the web site.

Second why has the link to the terms not been reinstated, why was it initially denied that it still applied on changing between the old BBYW packages contrary to the previous position, and why has it now been stated after referral upwards by Metronet_James that it ceases to apply if a customer moves to one of the new packages? (As I read the wording of the terms the company cannot withdraw the 90 day period from any customer who joined and opted in under them - see also O2's policy that the very similar £50 buyout applies to customers who signed up under it even if they change to one of the new packages).

Those eagle-eyed, bushy-tailed, eager-to-please PlusNet reps aren't being very helpful on this, are they?

Simon

Thanks for the PMs and giving me the chance to sort this out for you. I hope that you're now happier with the outcome and sorry about the inconveniences you had along the way.

While I hope the OP is happy now, he is but a symptom of the PlusNet disease which is discussed further down this thread. Have you anything to say about the issues and strategies surrounding the 90-day guarantee or will those questions be ignored?

I know that I have been quick to accuse PlusNet of cherry-picking individual high-profile complaints to resolve while leaving the silent majority in the mire but you (corporately) seem determined to prove me right.

Simon

And what are you .. a practising detractor in the Simon mould???? You seem to hang on his every word.

Edited by deleted (Tue 17-Mar-09 14:28:40)

Let's not resort to childish insults in order to get an awkward thread locked. Instead, why not put a bit of pressure on PlusNet to do the right thing wrt to the MBG mess? You know them well enough to urge them to respond to the criticisms and concerns raised by this thread, so why not do that?

Simon

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/showthreaded.php?Bo...

Guess you don't think the comment applies to you!
Hopefully we will see it does.

Hopefully Don has the power to just lock this sub thread, rather that the whole thread.

Have you anything to say about the issues and strategies surrounding the 90-day guarantee or will those questions be ignored?

The silence is deafening. I think it's fair to assume it's a case of ignore it and it will go away. Which of course it will.

Not the "Open and Honest" Plusnet we are used to.

Alternatively PN are dealing with the issues directly with customers and not being distracted by people without a relevant interest.

In which case is the link to the T&C's available from the PN website home page, just in case there are some PN customers who don't, as we are often led to believe, frequent this or any of PN's forums?.

A simple yes or no would suffice.

In reply to a post by paddyclark:

Alternatively PN are dealing with the issues directly with customers and not being distracted by people without a relevant interest.

But we have seen that when customers contact support on the issue then they are given incorrect information. Be that accidental or deliberate it is easily corrected by making the facts available online, as we have seen the page is still on the servers.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 18-Mar-09 16:13:58)

Alternatively PN are dealing with the issues directly with customers and not being distracted by people without a relevant interest.
-----
The point which you seem to be missing, or turning a blind eye to, is that they seem to be only "dealing" with those customers who make enough noise to cause them trouble. How many are misled and hoodwinked by the 1st line support staff? How many just retire hurt, or don't even know that they have been fleeced?

As you know, there are plenty of PlusNet customers who read this board - probably more than read any of the internal boards - and only an ostrich would dare to say that they don't deserve answers to the issues raised in this thread. It's no good telling them to contact the support team with their questions because, as we have witnessed, the support team is either not properly briefed on the 90-day MBG or has been briefed to mislead. Customers deserve some public answers so that they all know where they stand.

Simon

In reply to a post by pr100:

As you know, there are plenty of PlusNet customers who read this board ...... Customers deserve some public answers so that they all know where they stand.

I don't see many customers standing alongside you demanding the answers that they deserve. So either there are less of them reading these boards than you believe, or they do not feel strongly enough about the need for answers to comment.

Do not forget than any customers who joined under the MBG and who were quite happy with the service that they were provided, and I am sure that there are many of them, will not have any interest in how to leave as they have no wish to do so.

There seem to be plenty of contributors to this thread who have expressed their shared concern for the way in which PlusNet is mismanaging its 90 day MPG scheme. Whether they are customers or not is difficult to tell -- but PlusNet should be concerned whether they are customers or not. The longer they hide behind the parapet on this, counting their money, the worse they look. How many of the people reading this board are potential customers? How many of them will be impressed with PlusNet's silence?

In any event, if someone highlights something rotten in PlusNet Towers, what does it matter whether that person is a customer or not?

Do you think PlusNet are handling things properly? Would the majority of customers think so if they knew about it? Do we need a poll to prove that PlusNet are wrong? Surely, in the interest of all PlusNet customers, you would like to see the company behaving in an open and honest way?

Simon

Once again stirring for stirrings sake.... emotive language to portray Plusnet in as bad a light as you can. A couple of badly handled issues and out comes the conspiracy theory. TBBS front page news shows PN as third in Large ISPs. As I've said before PN is not perfect but your juvenile scaremongering is pathetic and does not portray anything other than your own twisted opinion of Plus Net. Most of the interested parties in this thread are observers and hardly likely to become a Plus Net customer.

Inane ramblings and assumptions do not make an evil ISP Simon, get some proportion in your postings for gods sake or find a new obsession. Either way try and involve some concrete facts from time to time you used to be good at that.

Why haven't Plusnet reinstated the deleted link, and why are upgraders not informed that they can reduce the new contract to 12 months not 18? Why does the 90-day getout not continue into that new contract as per its very clear wording?

No disparaging of Simon or questioning of his motives answers these questions that you are all refusing to reply to.

Edit - a "not" was missing.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 18-Mar-09 20:07:38)

On the second point I concur fully. PNs original position that to switch from a legacy product (out of contract) would incur a new 18 month contract was inexcusable and having bowed to exisiting customer pressure reduced that to 12 months. Which I still feel is indefensible.

On the first point a simple search for 90 days from the front page provides the results that are needed. Being a legacy offer surely means that its logical that the original path does not exist.

With regards to PR100, Less said the better.

...juvenile... ...pathetic... ...twisted... inane...
-----
Tsk, tsk - trying to get the thread closed are we? It's a good job I don't take offence at your constant insults.

Focus on the issues please.

Simon

Unfortunately the horrendous PlusNet still think I'm a customer despite the fact that I cancelled. I had direct debit and cancelled that so they took the next month's money from the details they had kept from my crefit card so after 28 years with the same bank, I closed that account. I don't even live in the house where I was when with this diabolical isp and the phone is cut off but they still try to take money from me.

Yeah, it all went a bit mental and uncomfortable about a week or two after I signed my parent's house up. Up popped the new packages and they really seemed to have either not considered or not cared about the existing customer base. Almost every concession took a long huddle to be approved and all were the minimum that might keep half the complainers happy. On top of that almost none of the new webpages or any of their internal systems were commissioned in a way that feels from outside like they supported the integration of the old and new customers. Thus all of the concessions have to be retro fitted to accounts after migrations and package feature you can keep have to be re-provided manually, etc, etc. There is a short thread on their own forums which encapsulates the concessions but as you rightly point out the majority of the customer base is not forum aware and will probably be accepting any old rubbish they are left with. I don't think anyone has been tasked to assist existing customers in getting the best offer!

The most concerning thing was that originally they expected to lock BBYW subscribers to their existing sub-package (ie. 1-lite, 2-medium, 3-heavy, pro) and not let them change within BBYW when that was the whole modus operandi of the BBYW scheme. The concession to do this came back eventually - but its mostly manual I think. The suspicious thing here (as with the 90 day offer) was that the existing terms and conditions for BBYW were preserved online as per their normal practice BUT the key terms about changing option were explicitly deleted. Previously they had always been clear that you could stay on an old package with all its T&C good/bad but here someone tried to tweak the T&C and kill off that bit.

They still don't seem to have fixed the "extra usage billing emails" which were altered to only reflect the billing of the new packages and not the actual billings of almost all the other packages they still have customers on. All very shabby really. Its only supporting old schemes, integration and migration that makes this sort of customer portal (and the packages you present on it) hard to define and develop and they seemed to miss every aspect of it.

Like the changes at Enta you get the sense of a new head honcho coming in and making change for change sake to prove their own value/importance and having so little grasp of the fundamentals of internet provision and customer management that almost everything good (including the company's reputation) gets trampled within weeks if not days.

Ho-Hum.

Well I feel like a new born baby, no hair, no teeth and I think I just wet myself.

I don't approve of your personal comments nor in fact Simon's when indicating that front line staff are liars/involved in a conspiracy or somesuch. Just because they are not named does not mean it is not personal, it would be to me if I was front line staff and read some of the stuff, many of those emotive terms tend to make people take sides..

The personal stuff sure creates heat...but unfortunately little light.

The new packages are radically different with the long term lock-ins and without a doubt have had an adverse affect on some existing customers, more so when a mixed message emerges, and is no doubt a subject for comment and debate.

I am not so concerned myself over the 90 day release, those that signed up because of it will be aware of it I feel and will no doubt fight their case if they want to leave, (still don't understand the tick box opt in though). It is the users who are on the old legacy packages where it was free to jump about and want to change need to made fully aware of the new lock in...whether 12 or 18 months,...... know that monthly contracts are dead......as long as they know their options they can then make an informed decision.

The same terms should be offered to all customers who want to swap, not just those that know to raise a ticket, the concession to 12 months seems an ad hoc implmentation.

This information needs to be big and clear due to the radically changed nature of the packages compared to the old ones to prevent customers sleep walking into a new deal. My personal opinion is that either lock-in is a big ask just to swap packages and needs careful consideration in these fast changing times although I can understand those opting for the Market 3 £5.99 option.

I agree with your comments entirely. Not that the 90 day is a non-issue PN like any ISP need to sort their systems out to ensure that systems and staff automatically process customers correctly in 99.9+% of the time. (100% is never achieved) Add ons like the 90 day MBG should be properly integrated so that customers are correctly processed and all relevant information is available on screen at time of customer contact.

With regard to the tie in for existing customers this is the major issue for me. Customers out of minimum contract should be able to switch from legacy products to the new producs with NO contract length (ie maintain the 30 day notice period) where no hardware is required. 18 months for new customers is PNs choice if this reduces customer numbers then they will obviously re-think.

What we need is more matter of fact posting, not innuendo, libel and scaremongering. My own (admittedly over the top) comments are purely reactions to the inflammatory nature of previous posts not the issues themselves. The last thing this forum needs is dragging down once again to where PNs input becomes negligible again. Though from the nature of previous posts criticising reps and suggesting that for doing their job and clearing up problems not correctly dealt with within the proper channels they are whitewashing and covering up for an evil empire, that may be what some others want.

For some reason you seem to take any criticism of Plusnet as a personal affront, as do some others who post on here.

Customers have stated they have asked to leave under the 90 day guarantee, to be told they didn't opt in in the first place. People on BBYW were told they couldn't move to other BBYW packages. Some customers were told they could reduce the 18 months to 12 months if they raised a ticket.

None of the above is in the public domain. Customers who don't frequent forums are left in the dark. Would any of these concessions have arisen if people hadn't complained?.

Not at all.. The issues themselves are important... my issue is with the nature of the criticism and allegations therein. Read my posts again if you misunderstand. It may help.

I'm not going over old ground again. I suggest you address the messsage and not the messsenger, however difficult that may be for you.

Not difficult at all... I'm sure youll get the gist eventually..

PN like any ISP need to sort their systems out to ensure that systems and staff automatically process customers correctly
-----
How do you know that the complaints we have read about are systems errors? Is it a *fact* that there is no corporate strategy to mislead customers? I appreciate that you lean one way while I lean another but there are no *facts* to support your assertions about systems errors, therefore intentional deception is at least a possibility, isn't it?

So please, don't try to persuade us that your view of events is factual - because it isn't. Your "systems errors" may be what you believe or hope to be the case but that doesn't make them any more factual than a strategy to deceive.

AFAIK, there have been no posts by customers reporting that PlusNet, without prompting, gave them what they are entitled to have. But there have been a number of posts from customers who report great difficulty in obtaining their entitlement, even to the extreme of the agent involved threatening legal action against a customer who was merely claiming his rights.

So, until we hear from customers who have had no trouble getting their entitlement at the first time of asking - whether under the 90 day MBG scheme or the extended contract terms - the circumstantial evidence is pointing towards a PlusNet policy of disenfranchisement by deception and disinformation.

Simon

"How do you know that the complaints we have read about are systems errors?"

How do you know they are not.

"Is it a *fact* that there is no corporate strategy to mislead customers?"

You are the only person making that allegation - your evidence is? Is it therefore a fact that they are not.

"So please, don't try to persuade us that your view of events is factual - because it isn't. "

It is at least as factual as your tainted view - and certainly more realistic.

"the circumstantial evidence is pointing towards a PlusNet policy of disenfranchisement by deception and disinformation."

More inflammatory tosh from yourself... How many complainants 3? 4? customers let down by inadequate service or by a dark evil ISP?

Strange how PN came out third in TBBs stats for Large ISPs... After all they willfully mislead and con customers constantly dont they... Oh I forgot only in Cloud Simon Land.

It is at least as factual as your tainted view - and certainly more realistic.
-----
I don't know where you're getting "realistic" from. PlusNet have proven themselves over time to be capable of wilful customer disinformation so it is not unrealistic to believe that they may be at it again.
-----
"the circumstantial evidence is pointing towards a PlusNet policy of disenfranchisement by deception and disinformation."

More inflammatory tosh from yourself... How many complainants 3? 4? customers let down by inadequate service or by a dark evil ISP?
-----
How can this be inflammatory when you have just conceded that my view of events has as much basis in fact as yours? If it is inflammatory to raise the possibility of wilful deception, then it must also be inflammatory to attribute these incidents to "system errors". And the numbers, however many there are, add up to 100% -- until such time as any customers report getting automatic entitlement from first line PlusNet agents.
-----
Strange how PN came out third in TBBs stats for Large ISPs... After all they willfully mislead and con customers constantly dont they... Oh I forgot only in Cloud Simon Land.
-----
Sadly, it is likely that the majority of customers won't realise it if they are intentionally misled by PlusNet agents. Which is why discussions like these are important.

Simon

Proves my point..........lots of heat not a chink of light.


Closed...someone has to stop the kids squabbling.