Sipgate Basic / Starter free sub plans - now withdrawn

As I just read a thread over at ISPreview fora, the “free” Basic (lately renamed Starter) plans that we’ve enjoyed for many years will be with us no longer.

They are being withdrawn to be replaced by plans with a monthly subscription. It’s not clear yet what the new charges will be.

I’ve personally happily used Sipgate since 2012, over a wide variety of broadband and mobile internet connections, and indeed my wife and I have several Basic accounts with geographic numbers with them and have also ported numbers in as well.

Frankly given the present economic turmoil it wasn’t exactly a complete shock that the free service would have to end - but it does leave pause for thought as to whether to stick or jump now. I guess the new pricing regime will need to be revealed.

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 10-Sep-22 11:52:33)

Recently, I have had trouble with my Gigaset N300 not staying registered with Sipgate via my Plusnet FTTC connection. I have had this particular service for nearly 7 years, The N300 registration with A&A remains constant. I pay £1.20 (inc VAT) for the A&A service though I hardly use it.

I think it’s coincidence. Not noticed any breaks in registration/ connection - admittedly though I am now mainly using Sipgate via the Acrobits proxy servers. So not a direct link for registrations

Am I correct in assuming that you can have the VoIP service from AAISP if you don't get your broadband from them?

In reply to a post by sjr:

Am I correct in assuming that you can have the VoIP service from AAISP if you don't get your broadband from them?

Correct, I'm an AAISP VoIP user for 3 years now, my broadband is with Virgin Media. I also use the Acrobits app on my iPhone, so I may be on home WiFi or might be out and about on a mobile network.

If Sipgate add a nominal monthly charge like some others then most people even though they may not use it for outgoing call may swallow the cost but if they are going to expect people to pay a minimum of £9.95 then I wouldnt be surprised if people switch to an alternative VOIP provider like AAISP.

Not sure what they'll offer yet. They haven't actually been in touch.

It wouldn't make sense for me to stay at near 10 quid a month, just to keep one line. I'd move to A&A in all likelihood if that was the case.

All you need to know about Sipgate can be learnt from trying to contact their telephone support, as I could fit in trying to contact them between other work I spent days phoning 10 or more times per day, never did get through to anyone, it was at this point I decided not to port my number or buy a package from them but just continue to use the free service, if they want paying I'm out.

I moved to AAISP when Sipgate announced the closure of Sipgate Basic nearly eight years ago. They backtracked then (or it was a mistake) but the risk of losing my ported number made me jump ship just in case.

AAISP's VOIP service, as with the other products, has been rock solid.

Thanks for the link

That's a shame. Been with Sipgate for many years. Hopefully the cost isn't too much, otherwise I think I'll just cancel and rely on my mobile.

Shame you didn’t stay - you would have saved 8 years worth of monthly subs 😁

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Shame you didn’t stay - you would have saved 8 years worth of monthly subs 😁

[wince]

I emailed sipgate to see what was happening with the starter product and this was their reply. It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence so I think it will be AAISP VoIP for me as I don't want to port the landline number twice.

It's true that new sign ups for sipgate starter is closed. However, the product itself still exists and is running as normal. There are currently no plans to close sipgate starter completely, so your account will remain functional and untouched, and you can still port your number over if you wish to.

I can't say for sure what sipgate will be planning to do in the future as these decisions are made and rolled out rather quickly. What I can say is if that something happens to starter, then you will be notified with plenty of time to make any necessary changes before the changes to sipgate go into affect.

Thanks for the update. They haven’t written to existing subscribers (yet), so I’d expect as they have told you nothing will change for the time being. The snippet linked from the poster at ISPreview indicated a withdrawal in 2023.

It’s not a burning bridge. Still good to be prepared.

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

I moved to AAISP when Sipgate announced the closure of Sipgate Basic nearly eight years ago. They backtracked then (or it was a mistake) but the risk of losing my ported number made me jump ship just in case.

Thanks for the link. If Sipgate follow through this time, maybe Voipfone will repeat their offer of free number ports for Sipgate customers.

(Voipfone's flex plan, currently £1 per month, increases to £1.50 per month from 1st Oct)

After reading this thread I tried to change the automatic account funding back from "active" to "inactive" but I could not find a way to do this.

I wrote a email to Sipgate asking how automatic account funding could be made inactive and I also asked about Sipgate Starter moving forward but no reply so far.

Sipgate normally do reply to emails but phoning has always seemed to be a waste of time.

The reason why I asked about automatic account funding is to keep the balance in the account low so if I cancel with Sipgate I do not have to jump through multiple hoops/barriers to get money left in the Sipgste account back.

As far as I can tell Sipgate will keep any account balance below £6.00 and they will charge a £6.00 admin fee to give back sums of money over £6.00 as long as you jump through their hoops/obsticles, ie. You must ask for it back and provide your personal info / possible your bank info and a copy of your passport.

Fido

In reply to a post by Fido:

As far as I can tell Sipgate will keep any account balance below £6.00 and they will charge a £6.00 admin fee to give back sums of money over £6.00 as long as you jump through their hoops/obsticles, ie. You must ask for it back and provide your personal info / possible your bank info and a copy of your passport.

If this is true then that is a bad reflection on the company, it always seems some companies are happy to take your money but often make it harder when giving it back, £6 admin fee is unjustified.

Going forward I would personally suggest people don't jump from Sipgate until they have had official word about any timescales for the free monthly version closure as that could be more than a year away and may not happen.

+1.

It’s only closed for new entrants. Existing subscribers do your homework, but the bridge isn’t on fire, so no rush to jump.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

It’s only closed for new entrants. Existing subscribers do your homework, but the bridge isn’t on fire, so no rush to jump.

For all the talk on here about no such thing as a free lunch, many have had their bellies full for many many years so why start paying until you really have too 🤣

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by Fido:

As far as I can tell Sipgate will keep any account balance below £6.00 and they will charge a £6.00 admin fee to give back sums of money over £6.00 as long as you jump through their hoops/obsticles, ie. You must ask for it back and provide your personal info / possible your bank info and a copy of your passport.

If this is true then that is a bad reflection on the company, it always seems some companies are happy to take your money but often make it harder when giving it back, £6 admin fee is unjustified.

Going forward I would personally suggest people don't jump from Sipgate until they have had official word about any timescales for the free monthly version closure as that could be more than a year away and may not happen.

Hi dect,

This is what it says in Section 5.3 of the Sipgate t&c ;


5.3. If the customer still has credit in his / her account at the point of cancellation, sipgate will reimburse the customer on request, to the value of the credit balance, minus sipgate’s processing fees of 6.00GBP. A refund is not issued in the case of the balance not exceeding 6.00GBP.

A prerequisite of a reimbursement, is a written customer request, stating the customer number / SIP-ID, a bank or credit card account and a copy of proof of ID (passport/driving license). The refund of a positive balance becomes time-barred from three years after the date of termination.


https://www.sipgatetrunking.co.uk/terms-and-conditions


As you say there has been no notice to us that Sipgate Basic/Starter has ended for existing customers but new customers cannot siign up for Sipgate Starter and iit seems scheduled to end for existing customers in 2023.

Regards,
Fido

I am aware that some existing customers were not made aware that Sipgate Basic was being replaced by Sipgate Starter so I do hope that they do a better job of notifying people should Sipgate Starter be demised for existing customers.

Edited by deleted (Wed 14-Sep-22 17:08:24)

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

I moved to AAISP when Sipgate announced the closure of Sipgate Basic nearly eight years ago. They backtracked then (or it was a mistake) but the risk of losing my ported number made me jump ship just in case.

AAISP's VOIP service, as with the other products, has been rock solid.

Haha I was the OP of that thread all them years ago. I am still with sipgate basic now and it has been solid. I will await further news but A&A is looking like my preferred option.

As you know there has still be no communication about the withdrawal of Basic/ Starter with any existing UK customers. So like you I'm just happy to wait and see what eventuates.

Who knows they may decide to do a volte-face like 2014. Stranger things have happened.

Just to note that after almost 3 months of this news, there has been absolutely no email or other communication from Sipgate to existing Sipgate Basic/Starter customers about any planned or imminent closure of the service.

So for now it looks like they have just withdrawn it for new customers. Existing customers continue as they have.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Just to note that after almost 3 months of this news, there has been absolutely no email or other communication from Sipgate to existing Sipgate Basic/Starter customers about any planned or imminent closure of the service.

So for now it looks like they have just withdrawn it for new customers. Existing customers continue as they have.

As I posted on another thread; I did eventualy receive an email reply to my query with regard to existing customers and I received the following reply:


"It is true that sipgate has decided to focus on business VOIP in the future. This means that yes, sign-ups to sipgate starter are now closed, meaning no new sipgate starter accounts can be opened. It is also true that sipgate will eventually be closing sipgate starter altogether sometime in 2023. This will be done with lots of notice to existing customers so that everyone has the opportunity to get their telephony in order before their account is shut down."


From that email reply the plan is to get rid of us sometime in 2023 but who knows if they will just leave us as we are.

Due to this uncertainty I changed from being an active user of my Sipgate Starter Account to an inactive user after I openned a Voipify Account as well.

The only real disadvantage with Sipgate is that Sipgate are extreemly hard to contact while Voipify answer their phone and/or reply to emails in a timely manner.

In some ways the completely Pay as You Go nature of the Sipgate Starter was better as Voipify do have a £4.20 monthly fee and the Sipgate phone performance was as good as Voipify. - However, on the whole, Voipify call costs are much cheaper, (eg. 0.6p per minute to most UK landlines and international calls are cheaper), than Sipgate which mitagates the monthly fee but for some reason Voipify landline calls to 03 numbers costs are similar to Sipgate which I don't like.

I like both Sipgate and Voipify but with Sipgate we are at best in limbo.

Regards,
Fido

Thank you for those details about Sipgate's intentions.

I would not object if Sipgate were to introduce a small monthly charge. I have one Sipgate number which I would quite like to keep and so I have asked A&A if the number can be ported to them and if so what the porting charge would be.

See what news 2023 brings from them. For now I’m in no rush to port out. That’s a fairly simple, short order task if/when the time comes (they do have track on changing their mind on these things).

Until that point I won’t bother paying monthly access fees. Can’t see the point really. If it ain’t broke…

As I believe I've posted before, I would happily pay Sipgate a reasonable price for a plan as the previous Basic plan, but I missed by a few days getting on that plan. For a consumer the plans they now have are ridiculously expensive compared to the likes of BT, and the same seems true of all standalone VoIP providers.

Heresy (for this subforum anyway), but here goes…

If you have a mobile with inclusive (perhaps unlimited) monthly minutes - do you really need a “landline”? It’s becoming an expensive luxury in some ways - as mobile phones once were thirty or more years ago….circles within circles.

A lot of us in a residential setting, can do without a landline and that’s the way the world is trending anyway. This conversation will probably be a quaint irrelevance in a few years I dare say.

I’m beginning to think access to a “landline” is more about ingrained ‘generational’ outlook, expectation and force of habit…rather than genuine need. There are exceptions of course. Cue the storming of the landline staunch supporters.

There said it. Heresy mode off. 😂🙈

I have one remaining relative who is over 100 and she thinks mobile phones are from the devil, so I keep my landline purely for her 🤣

In reply to a post by dect:

I have one remaining relative who is over 100 and she thinks mobile phones are from the devil, so I keep my landline purely for her 🤣

Same, though she's 96 but just as adamant that any number prefix above 01xxx isn't to be trusted.

With VOIP I can have several phones which are kept in a fixed position and I can easily find one to make a call or answer if it rings. The problem with mobile phones is that they need a mobile radio signal which is quite probably available in urban areas but less so in rural areas.

Most providers have some form of calling over WiFi so as long as you have a phone that supports it you can make and receive mobile calls and texts without a mobile signal.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I’m beginning to think access to a “landline” is more about ingrained ‘generational’ outlook, expectation and force of habit…rather than genuine need. There are exceptions of course. Cue the storming of the landline staunch supporters.

There said it. Heresy mode off. 😂🙈

I did sign up and just made it under the wire for Sipgate Basic. I've not publicised the number (and I'm glad I didn't now !). I'd be happy to pay one or two quid/mth for a Voip service, but no more. As things are looking now, it looks as if when I end up having to lose our copper landline, that'll be that. It's only a handful of Octogenarian family (and scammers) that ring up on our landline, they will need to be retrained to ring us on our mobiles. Even if we say we will ring them straight back, so they avoid the mobile call rate charges.

YMMV

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Heresy (for this subforum anyway), but here goes…

If you have a mobile with inclusive (perhaps unlimited) monthly minutes - do you really need a “landline”? It’s becoming an expensive luxury in some ways - as mobile phones once were thirty or more years ago….circles within circles.


There said it. Heresy mode off. 😂🙈

I have a mobile and network which works very well with WiFi calling (1p mobile on EE) but gf's mobile on Lebara/Vodafone doesn't work despite them saying it should.
p.s. I've tried her sim in my phone and that doesn't work with wifi calling either, apparently it's a problem with Vodafone.
p.p.s. In the days of my FTTC it was always amusing seeing a OR engineer wandering down the road trying to get a signal.

Edited by burble (Thu 24-Nov-22 12:49:04)

Similar to the PlusNet mobile offering (also EE). I had been with Three for years where wifi calling works perfectly (and I need it to make calls when inside the house) but I moved to Plusnet mobile. My mobile became almost unuseable so I moved back to Three.

In reply to a post by burble:

I have a mobile and network which works very well with WiFi calling (1p mobile on EE) but gf's mobile on Lebara/Vodafone doesn't work despite them saying it should.
p.s. I've tried her sim in my phone and that doesn't work with wifi calling either, apparently it's a problem with Vodafone.
p.p.s. In the days of my FTTC it was always amusing seeing a OR engineer wandering down the road trying to get a signal.

Lebara wifi calling only works in Switzerland. I might try the next time I go there.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

In reply to a post by burble:

I have a mobile and network which works very well with WiFi calling (1p mobile on EE) but gf's mobile on Lebara/Vodafone doesn't work despite them saying it should.
p.s. I've tried her sim in my phone and that doesn't work with wifi calling either, apparently it's a problem with Vodafone.
p.p.s. In the days of my FTTC it was always amusing seeing a OR engineer wandering down the road trying to get a signal.

Lebara wifi calling only works in Switzerland. I might try the next time I go there.

Lebara WiFi calling works for some in UK, it should work for gf (she has had sms telling her it will work) and on my phone but if the phone isn't supplied by Vodafone it often doesn't work even if that model of phone is supported.
https://mobile.lebara.com/gb/en/wifi-volte

In reply to a post by burble:

. . . gf's mobile on Lebara/Vodafone doesn't work despite them saying it should.

I recently signed up to Lebara (which is a white label seller for Vodafone) and had to cancel as soon as I tried the sim. According to the Lebara customer service WiFi calling only worked on Android 11 so my mobile on Android 10 was out of scope.

Since I left I've had a text from Lebara saying that WiFi calling is now enabled for me so maybe there has been a fix rolled out in the last few days.

As a side note, WiFi calling was enabled from day 1 on Asda Mobile (also VF re-seller) after I moved from Lebara.

Edit: Further to your last post, my phone is a Samsung originally supplied by Three. I've got a dual sim set-up (1 x Vodafone and 1 x Asda Mobile) and WiFi calling works on both sims.

Edited by GonePostal (Thu 24-Nov-22 15:32:44)

In reply to a post by burble:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

In reply to a post by burble:

I have a mobile and network which works very well with WiFi calling (1p mobile on EE) but gf's mobile on Lebara/Vodafone doesn't work despite them saying it should.
p.s. I've tried her sim in my phone and that doesn't work with wifi calling either, apparently it's a problem with Vodafone.
p.p.s. In the days of my FTTC it was always amusing seeing a OR engineer wandering down the road trying to get a signal.

Lebara wifi calling only works in Switzerland. I might try the next time I go there.

Lebara WiFi calling works for some in UK, it should work for gf (she has had sms telling her it will work) and on my phone but if the phone isn't supplied by Vodafone it often doesn't work even if that model of phone is supported.
https://mobile.lebara.com/gb/en/wifi-volte

On lebara.ch which I bought my Sim from it says:

"Can I use Wi-Fi Calling abroad, at an Internet café for example?

Currently you can only use WI-Fi Calling in WLAN networks within Switzerland. Wi-Fi Calling abroad is not possible; i.e. connecting abroad is always done via mobile signal and roaming charges will apply."

Interestingly if I put a Tesco Sim in the phone, then when I go to the Sim settings, there is a option to select Wifi calling. The option is not shown for the Lebara sim.

Maybe I should try the Lebara chat and see if they will enable Wifi calling for me.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

With VOIP I can have several phones which are kept in a fixed position and I can easily find one to make a call or answer if it rings. The problem with mobile phones is that they need a mobile radio signal which is quite probably available in urban areas but less so in rural areas.

I've pretty much retired all my Cisco IP* phones since house renovation / pandemic. Although they were great I really haven't missed them as much as I thought I would.

In Suffolk we're lucky to get one bar of service inside the house from any of the mobile networks. Since early doors we've used Vodafone SureSignal's (femtocells repeaters now retired. byVF) but then transitioned to WiFi calling when that became widely available (must be 7 or more years now) which - as long as your network and handset supports it - works great.

* I'm overdue building a new Asterisk instance/box which I need to get patched up, then I may bring the old 9971 beasts back out

I had a Vodafone SureSignal which I managed to get them to send me for free when I renewed the contracts. It was good at first but unfortunately it stopped working. I suppose I was lucky that it was not one of those that caught fire. They stopped the service not long afterwards.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by burble:

. . . gf's mobile on Lebara/Vodafone doesn't work despite them saying it should.

I recently signed up to Lebara (which is a white label seller for Vodafone) and had to cancel as soon as I tried the sim. According to the Lebara customer service WiFi calling only worked on Android 11 so my mobile on Android 10 was out of scope.

Since I left I've had a text from Lebara saying that WiFi calling is now enabled for me so maybe there has been a fix rolled out in the last few days.

As a side note, WiFi calling was enabled from day 1 on Asda Mobile (also VF re-seller) after I moved from Lebara.

Edit: Further to your last post, my phone is a Samsung originally supplied by Three. I've got a dual sim set-up (1 x Vodafone and 1 x Asda Mobile) and WiFi calling works on both sims.

I'm an ex Vodafone customer, after several contacts with them about WiFi calling they admit that they will not guarantee it works unless you buy the phone from them, for those with sim free or unlocked phones it's a lottery.

In reply to a post by burble:

I'm an ex Vodafone customer, after several contacts with them about WiFi calling they admit that they will not guarantee it works unless you buy the phone from them, for those with sim free or unlocked phones it's a lottery.

Unless its an iPhone, as Apple forces standardisation that is not the same with Android unfortunately.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

They stopped the service not long afterwards.

They were a nightmare to get working as they used network protocols not designed to go through Network Address Translation, and they wouldn't tell you anything about it for "security reasons".

Thankfully all the networks have pretty much closed their femto cell offerings as they were all 3G, and 3G is going (next year for EE & Vodafone).

I haven't used my landline number for outgoing calls for years, the few calls I do make are more than covered by my monthly mobile allowance. When I moved to FTTP i did port the old number to sigate basic , Partly because I have had the same number for 30 years, though the only regular (non-junk) calls are from my parents as they get inclusive calls to landlines but not mobiles.

If Sipgate start charging much more than a nominal £10/year comparable to domain registrations then I will just dump the number.

I have a dual sim phone with a French Reglomobile sim using Vodaphone and this has both Wi-Fii and 4G calling enabled and working. Previously I had an Asda sim on Vodaphone and this too allowed Wi-Fi calling.
The other sim is with 1pMobile and Wi-Fi calling is enabled but the preference is shown as 'Call over mobile network' unlike the French sim which shows Call over Wi-Fi as the preference. Strangely 4G calling is not shown as an option. Nevertheless it works well for calls and SMS.

However I am contemplating switching both sims to Lebara in their respective countries and the difficulties others describe are a bit offputting especially if Wi-Fi calling does not work when out of country so I will have to tread carefully to not lose functionality. This in addition to juggling the roaming policy of UK networks.

UK roaming policies post Brexit are not user friendly compared with the French networks who lump UK in with all other EU countries for their call and data allowances when out of country and are much more generous.

I am on starter / Basic and pay the £9.95 for unlimited calls.

Just got this from Sipgate

Hello Kevin,

We at sipgate are standardizing our tariff model. In the future, there will only be three business tariffs S, L and XL. Your tariff starter will be discontinued, the changeover will be automatic.

As a thank you for using sipgate starter, we would like to grant you a 20% discount on the new tariff in the first year.

This is what will change for you:

Old contract: starter with UK allnet flat rate
New contract: business L with UK allnet flat rate (incl. UK mobile service)
New price: £11.96 /month per user (excl. VAT) thereafter £14.95 per user (excl. VAT)
Discount in the first 12 months after conversion: 20%
Date of changeover: 01/01/2023

If that's the going rate (as my mobile costs me less per month and gives me more), then it will be farewell Sipgate when the day comes...

In reply to a post by kevinrduke:

Old contract: starter with UK allnet flat rate
New contract: business L with UK allnet flat rate (incl. UK mobile service)
New price: £11.96 /month per user (excl. VAT) thereafter £14.95 per user (excl. VAT)
Discount in the first 12 months after conversion: 20%
Date of changeover: 01/01/2023

Did they not offer you the 'S' package at 9.95/m (+VAT) ?

I await my email. I've been evaluating Sipgate Basic since June for future use, not used it in anger, and probably won't now. I'll be flogging my Grandstream VoIP desk phone on ebay

Given that us Sipgate Basic users are likely to have an forced move to a monthly contract fairly soon, has anyone produced a quick summary of the alternative options ?

Edited by mikegg (Sat 10-Dec-22 20:40:51)

At this moment in time (unless anyone wants to confirm otherwise) I am only aware of Kevin getting notification from Sipgate of a 1st Jan 2023 forced move to a chargeable business package.

Nothing here. Where you been?

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Where you been?

Sorry, nothing I can talk about on a forum but thanks for noticing.

This is the first I have read about this.

I have two sipgate basic accounts with numbers that I would want to keep (they are only used for incoming calls).

What would be the cheapest way of keeping these numbers for the purpose of just incoming calls.

First, wait until Sipgate tell you that they will start charging you. (I haven't heard anything from them yet; I migrated my number only a few months ago though).

Then the cheapest option I know is AAISP, at £1.44 per number per month after the Feb 2023 price rise:
https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-informat...
(plus £19.44 per number for setup and porting)

See also:
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/voip/t/4721423-re-...

Thanks. I haven't heard anything yet but read that someone else wasn't given much notice of the change so I'm trying to plan ahead.

Actually I don't even need incoming calls, just need the number to go straight to voicemail for the purposes I use it for.

I assume this is still the cheapest/best method to achieve that ?

Thanks again

AAISP does apparently include voicemail:
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_-_Voicemail

A list of home VoIP options has just published over on ISPReview:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/12/summar...

Thanks for the reply - I'll read through that article properly.

At a quick glance it would seem that Number People are offering free number porting too, and their basic plan is free of charge.

Thanks for the cross link. That's a handy summary from Mark

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Thanks for the cross link. That's a handy summary from Mark

That quoted £40 migration fee is much more than I paid to move a Plusnet number (Openreach WLR) to A&A in 2019.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

A list of home VoIP options has just published over on ISPReview:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/12/summar...

His quoted prices for VoIPify are correct. I had a very informative phone conversation with VoIPify sales/tech a week or so ago which was extremely useful to a new comer to VoIP, such as myself, potentially coming from WLR PSTN Incidentally they did say specifically that Grandstream HT801 ATA's are currently difficult to obtain now though.

If that is the £44.40p quoted here, https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/number-portin... that is for a Renumber and export where your existing number is ported to A&A and your broadband is via a copper pair supplied by A&A at currently £10.00 per month plus whatever broadband service is used on top. This is what I have been using for some months now.
If on the other hand all you want is to port your existing number to A&A's VoIP, then it is £15.00p. (I arranged this for a relation 2 weeks ago)

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

If on the other hand all you want is to port your existing number to A&A's VoIP, then it is £15.00p. (I arranged this for a relation 2 weeks ago)

That's what I paid in 2019, just wasn't sure if things had changed in the 3 years since. Thanks!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

A list of home VoIP options has just published over on ISPReview:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/12/summar...

His quoted prices for VoIPify are correct. I had a very informative phone conversation with VoIPify sales/tech a week or so ago which was extremely useful to a new comer to VoIP, such as myself, potentially coming from WLR PSTN Incidentally they did say specifically that Grandstream HT801 ATA's are currently difficult to obtain now though.

If my wife did not insist on our keeping the equivolent of a landline I would probably just use mobiles but if a VOIP service is required the N300(A) may be worth considering as an ATA..

Due to the planned closure of Sigate Starter: I presently have two VOIP lines, (one with Sipgate Starter and one with Voipify), both of these lines use one Gigaset N300A base station and four Gigaset C575A phones. - As I recall the Gigaset N300A Base Station can cope with around six separate lines from the same of from totally different VOIP providers and it costs about £50.

Both Sipgate and Voipify have been quite good:

Sipgate Starter is just PAYG with calls costing a few pence per minute but Sipgate never answer their own phone and they take a long time to reply to emails.

Voipify does have a £4.20 per month base charge but mostly the Voipify call cost per minute is much cheaper, (around 0.6p per minute for UK calls and a similar cost for overseas calls to the USA but beware of UK 03 calls that, for some reason, cost about 2p per minute which is closer to the Sipgate Starter and the AA call cost per minute), - The big difference is that Voipify do actually answer their own phone and they tend to reply to emails if you ever need to contact them in a timely manner.

I had previously considerred AA but I was very uncomfortable that they insisted upon an open ended Direct Debit which they would not cap and then made the customer totally responsible for any hacking of the uncapped account. - I would not sign a blank cheque for a phone service so AA was not an option for me.

Regarding number porting, personally, I would not bother porting a number. - Changing the number is a bit of a hassle but it is quite easy and it saves the uncertainty of any crossover during a service change.

Regards,
Fido

In reply to a post by 4M2:

His quoted prices for VoIPify are correct. I had a very informative phone conversation with VoIPify sales/tech a week or so ago which was extremely useful to a new comer to VoIP, such as myself, potentially coming from WLR PSTN Incidentally they did say specifically that Grandstream HT801 ATA's are currently difficult to obtain now though.

There are the Cisco ATA 191 and 192.

For info, I am currently using a Cisco ATA 191

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Fido:

N300(A) may be worth considering as an ATA..

All good @Fido but for clarity an N300 is not an ATA - just to clarify for folks expecting that you can plug some old analog handset into one 🙈😅

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 31-Dec-22 19:34:23)

In reply to a post by Fido:

If my wife did not insist on our keeping the equivolent of a landline I would probably just use mobile...

...Regarding number porting, personally, I would not bother porting a number. - Changing the number is a bit of a hassle but it is quite easy and it saves the uncertainty of any crossover during a service change.

Thanks for your reply. In regard to your advice I may decide to use a mobile for voice and FTTP for data. Retaining the equivalent of a landline and the associated phone number, in my case, may not really be a priority. Also, as you say, there can potentially be issues with number porting if one wished to go (for example) from WLR to VoIP for a basic voice service.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

There are the Cisco ATA 191 and 192.

VoIPify do have the 2 port Cisco SPA112 ATA on their hardware list which, incidentally, one can order pre-configured from them if required.

Edit: just looked for the SPA112 on Amazon and it seems to be a very old device!

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 31-Dec-22 19:36:01)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

There are the Cisco ATA 191 and 192.

VoIPify do have the 2 port Cisco SPA112 ATA on their hardware list which, incidentally, one can order pre-configured from them if required.

I wouldn't worry about HCLs for 'public' provider VoIP. There is very little (zero) risk of incompatibilities.

In reply to a post by kevinrduke:

I am on starter / Basic and pay the £9.95 for unlimited calls.

Just got this from Sipgate

Hello Kevin,

We at sipgate are standardizing our tariff model. In the future, there will only be three business tariffs S, L and XL. Your tariff starter will be discontinued, the changeover will be automatic.

As a thank you for using sipgate starter, we would like to grant you a 20% discount on the new tariff in the first year.

This is what will change for you:

Old contract: starter with UK allnet flat rate
New contract: business L with UK allnet flat rate (incl. UK mobile service)
New price: £11.96 /month per user (excl. VAT) thereafter £14.95 per user (excl. VAT)
Discount in the first 12 months after conversion: 20%
Date of changeover: 01/01/2023

Would be really interested to learn what happened with this on 01/01/23?

Hi

I stayed with sipgate for January as I had a lot to sort out but now just about to move over to AAISP VOIP package as we all have un-limited mobile calls.

I only need the landline now for incoming.

The 'S' package does not include a call package which is why that wasn't offered.

Thanks for replying, glad you're moving to another provider, still surprised I have not heard of anyone else getting the same email even thou Sipgate have made announcements about Basic/Starter ending.

I just did this, kicking off on Jan 5th (post 6pm, so realistically Jan 6th) - all done & dusted including porting the number by Jan 13th at 1000. Refund of outstanding credit (£4.83) being processed by SIPGate.

Been with sipgate (basic) since 2018 and never had any issues, shame to see they will start to charge (maybe), will hold out until they do. Not had any email from them at all about it.

AAISP went live for voip at 10 am on the 30th when the number ported over from sipgate.

Sipgate account closed by 2 pm on the 30th and £7 refund back in my bank by 2nd feb.

In reply to a post by kevinrduke:

AAISP went live for voip at 10 am on the 30th when the number ported over from sipgate.

Sipgate account closed by 2 pm on the 30th and £7 refund back in my bank by 2nd feb.

Glad things went smoothly, thanks for the update. All the best

Have been running down Sipgate balance but need to top up.

I was planning to move when I have to - any further news on forced closure of Free Accounts ?

Still going.

I have two accounts with them so two numbers, not heard anything about account closures.

I got a number from them just as they dropped 'Basic', as such never got to putting a penny in account, and only use it for receiving calls, it was still working yesterday when I received a call.

This is all very strange, some were forcibly changed over to a chargeable tariff on 1st January 2023 and others 3 months later still haven't heard anything.

In reply to a post by dect:

This is all very strange, some were forcibly changed over to a chargeable tariff on 1st January 2023 and others 3 months later still haven't heard anything.

Yep. Not had any correspondence from them whatsoever about dropping the plans or being migrated to paid plans.

Was it only people already on a plan with an allowance of free calls that got switched to a fully chargeable tariff?

In reply to a post by 1nitram2:

Was it only people already on a plan with an allowance of free calls that got switched to a fully chargeable tariff?

That is a very good point, Kevin who was the person who I am aware of being forcibly moved over was on a Starter / Basic and paying £9.95 for unlimited calls.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by dect:

This is all very strange, some were forcibly changed over to a chargeable tariff on 1st January 2023 and others 3 months later still haven't heard anything.

Yep. Not had any correspondence from them whatsoever about dropping the plans or being migrated to paid plans.

Nor me (Sipgate Starter) though I have zero credit, and any attempt to top it up results in being forced to upgrade to a 'package'

I've heard nothing either. I have about £8 of credit left, which will last a long time, as I'm a very light user.

I wonder if they're thinking again? Maybe the people they have notified aren't moving over to paid tariffs in the numbers they'd hoped?

Thanks for the replies.
As a reference point, I had £0.88 in my account and successfully topped up with £10 - no issue about not being able to Top-up.

In reply to a post by mikegg:

Thanks for the replies.
As a reference point, I had £0.88 in my account and successfully topped up with £10 - no issue about not being able to Top-up.

It is still up in the air but most of us are still hoping that existing Sipgate Starter Customers stay as they are.

A few months ago: I emailed Sipgate again to see if they had reconsidered their plans to end Sipgste Starter for all customers later this year and I pointed out to Sipgate that most companies set out to attract new customers and not to repel existing customers.

Since they announced their plan to end Sipgate Starter Accounts I have been running down my previously active Sipgate Starter Account almost completely and have now almost become a none user with what Sipgate call a dead account. - No doubt many of us have been running down our own Sipgate Accounts in a similar way due to the uncertainty and the proposed complete end of Sipgate Starter Accounts.

Perhaps; its possible that Sipgate will reconsider closing our existing Sipgate Starter Accounts? - Who knows.

Topping up the Sipgate Account may turn out to be a gift to Sipgate of at least £6.00 since, (if the Sipgate Account is closed), the first £6.00 of any money left in the account will be kept by Sipgate. - No big deal as £6.00 is not a lot so if it Carrys on and on I will probably add £10.00 to my Sipgate Account.

I still have both a Sipgate Starter Account and a Voipify Account. - (Both are OK. - Voipfy calls cost less per call but they have quite a high monthly base rate that has just increased to £4.80 per month including VAT before calls. - Some of us have opened accounts with AA but there is no way that I would sign up to a open ended Direct Debit on a potentially hackable system).

The real alternatives to VoIP Phones are mobile phones and these days sim only deals with inclusive unlimited calls and text can cost £5.00 per month including VAT.

Is A&A more "hackable" than other VoIP providers?

Cheers!

No, but I think the point is that you can pay with a credit card to other providers.

Not that it makes much difference I think. You're either liable for the money, or not. The question is more about whether you have to fight for a refund.

An open-ended DD is how most mobile and landline contracts are paid too. However, for anyone who finds that worrying, they can set up a separate bank account, put say £100 in it, and point the DD at that.

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Is A&A more "hackable" than other VoIP providers?

Cheers!

With Sipgate Starter, (if your account was hacked), your liability to Sipgate is capped by whatever monies that you have input into the Sipgate account so if it was hacked your liability is limited.

With Voipify I have chosen to set a maximum liability of £20.00 per month as a usage limit.

I asked AA if the monthly Direct Debit liability them for a VOIP phone service could be capped and they said NO.

Since AA do not allow you to cap your liability to them: in the case that your account with AA was hacked it could result in a huge bill being taken directly out of your bank account.

It is the “Open Ended” nature of the AA Direct Debit that stopped me from joining them as I will not sign a Blank Cheque just for a VOIP phone service and that is why I would avoid their VOIP service.

Regards,
Fido

May be I'm just getting old but doesn't a DD stipulate that the company needs to notify you 14 days or so before they can take a payment (e.g. your bill is ready emails), surely if you disagree with the bill and can't resolve it with the company you can cancel the DD and argue it in court.

In reply to a post by dect:

May be I'm just getting old but doesn't a DD stipulate that the company needs to notify you 14 days or so before they can take a payment (e.g. your bill is ready emails), surely if you disagree with the bill and can't resolve it with the company you can cancel the DD and argue it in court.

You can just ring your bank and ask them to reverse a DD charge. I did once do this some time ago for a broadband (ADSL) service. I should say that the supplier suggested that I did this as it would be the quickest way for me to get my money back after I was charged incorrectly.

In reply to a post by dect:

May be I'm just getting old but doesn't a DD stipulate that the company needs to notify you 14 days or so before they can take a payment (e.g. your bill is ready emails), surely if you disagree with the bill and can't resolve it with the company you can cancel the DD and argue it in court.

What can you dispute if the AA records list chargeable calls against your account and they say you are liable as you have signed up to the T&C and an Open Ended Direct Debit ?

As I recall: part of the AA Terms and Conditions is that their VOIP customers sign up to is being liable for any hacking.

Why take an unnecessary risk of ending up out of pocket or in a legal dispute when capped accounts, (via pre payment criterion of an account credit limit that the customer can set), are available ?

If it did end up in court case it is possible that a court could consider this to be an Unfair Contract Term but I suspect that success would be unlikely and in a court case only the solicitors will win.

Also, personally, I do not want to have to keep a close eye on my VOIP accounts.

Since the risk liability is limited in my Sipgate and Voipify Accounts they tend to look after themselves and I just check them every every three months.

Regards,
Fido

In reply to a post by Fido:

Topping up the Sipgate Account may turn out to be a gift to Sipgate of at least £6.00 since, (if the Sipgate Account is closed), the first £6.00 of any money left in the account will be kept by Sipgate. - No big deal as £6.00 is not a lot so if it Carrys on and on I will probably add £10.00 to my Sipgate Account.

When I closed mine in January (moved to A&A for the certainty, whilst it was in my timing/control not a potential arbitrary enforced move by Sipgate) Sipgate returned the £4.72 I had in my account in full.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

As I just read a thread over at ISPreview fora, the “free” Basic (lately renamed Starter) plans that we’ve enjoyed for many years will be with us no longer.

They are being withdrawn to be replaced by plans with a monthly subscription. It’s not clear yet what the new charges will be.

I’ve personally happily used Sipgate since 2012, over a wide variety of broadband and mobile internet connections, and indeed my wife and I have several Basic accounts with geographic numbers with them and have also ported numbers in as well.

Frankly given the present economic turmoil it wasn’t exactly a complete shock that the free service would have to end - but it does leave pause for thought as to whether to stick or jump now. I guess the new pricing regime will need to be revealed.

It's been almost a year since I started this thread, and to date I've still had no comms from Sipgate about any closure of my accounts with them for the Basic / Starter service.

I'm presuming other folks who are pre-existing clients of theirs on the same are similar. As such I've abandoned any plans to move away and happily still using the service .

Let me know if you've been asked to migrate and if so to, what, where and how.

Many thanks

As mentioned earlier, I had registered with sipgate and got a number to 'try' for a couple of weeks before committing to porting my home number, when they closed 'basic' to newcomers. I still have this number with zero credit on it, and it still accepts incoming calls. I have had no coms from sipgate as to any changes.

Cheers!

Still had no contact from Sipgate. Still working for me.

In reply to a post by _Resonance_:

Still had no contact from Sipgate. Still working for me.

It is the same for me.

Therefore, the Sipgate Account is stll effectively in limbo.

Prior to this decision I was using Sipgate as my main account but now it only has £1 left in it and I very rarely make/receive a Sipgate call. - I would consider topping it up but not until after when/if they end this plan and they decide to keep pre-existing Sipgate Starter Accounts as they are.

After this plan to close Sipgate Starter became public I opened a Voipify Account which is the one that I mainly use now but I have liked being with Sipgate and it is handy to have both.

About 9 months ago, I did contact Sipgate and they replied that they still planned to close Sipgate Starter accounts this year: The reply from Sipgate is as follows;


Hi XXXX,

Thanks for your email and the time you've spent writing it. I've forwarded it to our managers internally for them to read themselves.

Unfortunately, sipgate won't be making any changes in this regard - they have decided to continue moving forward with switching all customers over to sipgate business.

Once your account is also set to be moved over, you'll be notified. At that time, you can email us back in this thread or the email you receive then, and we can close your account if that's what you'd like to do at that time.

Best regards,

XXXX

Sipgate's reason for this change is to get rid of inactive accounts but the planned change has effectively turned most previously active Sipgate Starter Accounts into inactive Accounts, (previiusly in my case Sipgate was my only VOIP Account that I used for all landline calls and in response to this plan I opened a Voipify Account which now my main account),

Perhaps, we should all make/receive at least one Sipgate call every six months to help prevent our accounts from being considered dead.

Cool. Thanks.

Thank you for the interesting post. At the moment the cheapest Sipgate Business account cost £12.95 maybe be + vat.

There would need to be a cheaper offer otherwise I would want to terminate the services I have. A&A have a reasonable offer.

In reply to a post by Fido:

Unfortunately, sipgate won't be making any changes in this regard - they have decided to continue moving forward with switching all customers over to sipgate business.

That is interesting because sipgate mentioned to a German site (teltarif.de) that they decided to keep free accounts of existing customers in May-2023 changing the previous stance reported by the same site in Sep-2022. sipgate reporting that they keep starter plans

Summary is that after feedback from existing users they decided to maintain the starter option for existing users in the spirit of an agile company.

I'm aware this is likely focused on sipgate.de and that there were feature differences between the DE and UK offering and with UK feeling like a 2nd class citizen (e.g. mobiles are not offered in UK still).

Unsurprising really. We've collectively been down this road before with Sipgate around 10 years ago. Nothing really changed then, and nothing will now (for existing Starter / Basic tier users). Different matter for new customers though.

I've not heard a peep from them.

All the folks that have decided to jump have done so of their own accord, as far as I can tell.

I have happily been on Sipgate basic/starter for three years now but am getting slightly worried, having read about them possibly stopping the service, to find my Gigaset DECT can no longer register with the service. Nor can I access it from softphone apps.

I don't known if this is related to the fact that I lost connection with the service when my broadband went down for nearly three days (Virgin Media, who else?). I sent them an email, awaiting response.

If the Gigaset DECT is an N300 you could powering it off and on. You could also have a a second VOIP a/c such as from A&A for a few £s per month.

Can you log in to your Sipgate account? I'd expect that to show if your service has gone.
Might also be worth checking your SIP password hasn't changed on there.

+1

It's an N510 and I've tried all I could, including turning off and on. But it continually says registration failed, as do the softphones I've tried.

Yers I can access my web account, but when I tried to change the password it simply returned the same password over and over. So I couldn't try that trick.

I've seen this with using certain DNS providers. Change to a known DNS entry in the network configuration. You might also be unwittingly be blocking it with an adblocker such as pihole. Whitelist the domain.

Also check ALG SIP setting on your router are either enabled or disabled. Change it to the other setting (either enable or disable it)

Seems unlikely to be anything else.

Sipgate is OK here today. My Zoiper VOIP android account registers quickly when I use it.

GS Wave on my phone is taking calls on my Sipgate PAYG.

As if by magic everything is working again - and I didn't do a thing! My DECT and softphone are now registered!

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

As I just read a thread over at ISPreview fora, the “free” Basic (lately renamed Starter) plans that we’ve enjoyed for many years will be with us no longer.

They are being withdrawn to be replaced by plans with a monthly subscription. It’s not clear yet what the new charges will be.

I’ve personally happily used Sipgate since 2012, over a wide variety of broadband and mobile internet connections, and indeed my wife and I have several Basic accounts with geographic numbers with them and have also ported numbers in as well.

Frankly given the present economic turmoil it wasn’t exactly a complete shock that the free service would have to end - but it does leave pause for thought as to whether to stick or jump now. I guess the new pricing regime will need to be revealed.

It's been almost a year since I started this thread, and to date I've still had no comms from Sipgate about any closure of my accounts with them for the Basic / Starter service.

I'm presuming other folks who are pre-existing clients of theirs on the same are similar. As such I've abandoned any plans to move away and happily still using the service .

Let me know if you've been asked to migrate and if so to, what, where and how.

Many thanks

I've had a Sipgate Basic account since June 2022. I'd been holding off adding a credit to it, because of the announced winding up of the scheme a year ago. Anyway, decided not to worry, and finally stick a Tenner on to it. Just tried it, filled in my Credit Card details in the online portal. Nothing happened, credit not added (nor any trace of a pending transaction on my Credit Card account portal).

So is it really still working or not. Incoming calls work, as does a 111 call (I only stayed on the line as far as 'This is NHS 111.....)

I can make calls using my Sipgate VOIP service.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

I can make calls using my Sipgate VOIP service.

Well yes, so can I (if they are FOC) but can you add credit to your account ?

My account is in credit and it has an automatic update.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

My account is in credit and it has an automatic update.

Good for you ! Not sure how you've addressed my question, but hey

Anyway, received an email overnight from Sipgate, saying that my attempt to 'create a credit card' had failed.

Tried again this morning, and success !

Next issue, made a test call to my mobile (only really to check CLID was being sent) and it carried on ringing the mobile long (20 seconds) after I hung up. Result, the mobile voicemail answered and ker-ching, 14p gone

Not to worry, I don't intend to be making any calls with it, only answering.

I am glad to here that your service is now working OK. I do hope Sipgate keep going. I also have an A&A a/c which I will use if Sipgate stop their retail business.

Still rocking and rolling.

All good. No one getting kicked off, unless they want to leave.

One year on and still receiving calls.

Thirteen years on and still working a treat (all 4 Basic / Starter accounts). Great not having paid line rental 🤣👍