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Hi
seems as "none Plusnet Customers" have no access to certain useful discussions, would it not be a good idea to have a guest login, like there is on Plusnet's forums?
I ask it on here, because as a none Plusnet ip i cant register to post, and i would welcome your views on this.
Personnally i think there should be no holds barred, and like the Plusnet forums, guests should not be allowed to post. This would blow the arguement that trouble would be caused out of the water.
Edited by soundsystem (Sat 26-Aug-06 18:19:53)
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"seems as "none Plusnet Customers" have no access to certain useful discussions,"
And of what use to a "non Plusnet customer" would those "useful discussions" be? unless of course they are prospective customers but somehow I don't think that is the case in this instance.
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think what you want, i have merely asked a question
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Without answering mine :-)
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"And of what use to a "non Plusnet customer" would those "useful discussions" be? unless of course they are prospective customers but somehow I don't think that is the case in this instance. "
ok - i will answer :-)
1) People should be able to see the problems (which they can)
2) People should be able to see what the PUG is about, how they handle the complaints so to speak, how they react, how they are moving forward.
3) People always speculate (like on here) and then put 2 and 2 together to make 7. If people have access to see what is really not going on, ie not just the moaning, then that person (if not a customer) can make an informed choice, as to join or not.
4) It would promote more openess
5) I am nosey
If you are worried about people putting their oar in and causing disruptions, this cannot happen as a guest, as the right to post would be suspended.
I opened this post, as an oppurtunity to discuss, sensibly, and involve the PUG as well as ex-customers, existing customers, new customers to have a say.
I did not open this thread to have a "told you so" or "you are a troublemaker" type accusations.
Now did that answer your question?
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"If you are worried about people putting their oar in and causing disruptions, this cannot happen as a guest, as the right to post would be suspended."
I realize that, but could you or anyone else (no accusations here) give assurances that a matter of seconds after something is read on PUG that it won't be being dissected here.
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"I realize that, but could you or anyone else (no accusations here) give assurances that a matter of seconds after something is read on PUG that it won't be being dissected here. "
who do you think i am Paul Daniels?
I cannot give assurances, because human nature finds fault with anything if that person disagrees with a point of view.
Personnally if everything is dissected on here or not, as long as it is constructively ripped apart, then why should it not be?
If it is good enough for PUG then why should it not be good enough for here? More people visit here than PUG and Plusnet forums added together and then multiplied by five.
I like the sound of things that are happening, i like the debate over whats happening, I am sure i am not the only one with that view point.
A lot of the time on here, debates continue without interruption or malice, and i feel this should continue.
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I can give an assurance that within a matter of seconds of something being posted on the PUG site it WILL be on here and it will be the same old sad faces doing the dissection.
Ian Stirling
Bulldog Communications 8Mb Inter@ctive
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i rest my case
Welcome to the thread Squirrel
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They are not going to give you access so on the count of 5 please feel free to eject your toys from the pram ..
1..2..3..4..5
Ian Stirling
Bulldog Communications 8Mb Inter@ctive
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I am just curious as to what you think is discussed on PUG that is'nt discussed on "Plusnetters", and from what I can see you do an excellent job of getting answers to your questions there.
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PN are pushing PUG as the site of choice, why is anyones guess. PUG maintain they are independant of any PN influence (apart of course from the NDA`s they sign up to). So why the secrecy?.
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Well to answer that, PUG are obviously very much involved in helping Plusnet try and change its spots, which is welcome.
However, i cannot hog the staff at plusnets time, by continually asking questions etc.
Plusnet have opted to get the customers and Pug involved in one to discuss issues, however the none Plusnet IP dont get to see :-(
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As an ex-customer who passively scans these forums to see what escapades plusnet are up to these days, I must say that I find this whole PUG secrecy very shady.
If you're so passionate about Plusnet why not open the floodgates and help fight off the hordes of people that come to complain? Dispel these apparent 'myths' that plusnet are scum, go on, I dare you!
Wouldn't it be a little shady if a group of pee'd off ex/current plusnet customers decided to start a closed community designed for complaining/anti-plusnet discussions ?
Edited by deleted (Sat 26-Aug-06 20:03:50)
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>ok - i will answer :-)
>1) People should be able to see the problems (which they can)
Why?
>2) People should be able to see what the PUG is about, how they handle the >complaints so to speak, how they react, how they are moving forward.
Why?
>3) People always speculate (like on here) and then put 2 and 2 together to make 7. If >people have access to see what is really not going on, ie not just the moaning, then >that person (if not a customer) can make an informed choice, as to join or not.
Who's fault is that?
>4) It would promote more openess
For whom the attack, attack mob?
>5) I am nosey
Not a reason.
>If you are worried about people putting their oar in and causing disruptions, this >cannot happen as a guest, as the right to post would be suspended.
No but they can drag it up on here.
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">4) It would promote more openess
For whom the attack, attack mob? "
George feel free to quote my posts when you can debate with out putting people down, for some reason you are intent on destroying all discussion on here.
On the PUG site you can put up a reasoned arguement, please do the same on here and i will debate it with you, until then perhaps you would like to join us in the playground?
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=pipexusers&Number=2635943&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1&PHPSESSID=
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Well done. I think that was an appropriate response and civilised too.
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In reply to:
>If you are worried about people putting their oar in and causing disruptions, this >cannot happen as a guest, as the right to post would be suspended.
No but they can drag it up on here.
Why would that be a problem?, if Plusnet are being 'open and honest' and actually acting upon problems then potential customers would be able to see that. They would also see what you call the 'attack, attack mob' for what they were too.
To point one you answer 'why? do you not think that potential customers should be able to see any problems then?.
You also give the answer of 'why?' to point 2, again potential customers can see how the 'User Group' behave and I have to admit that if I was a potential customer the actions of one of its members would not have impressed me at all.
Bulldog 16Mb Unlimited Plus
Far too many computers, 1 Ducati M900, 1 Wife, 4 Cats and 1 horse 
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You don't seem to get it do you - P U G = Plusnet User Group it dose NOT = ALL and SUNDRY USER GROUP. If you can't understand that it means a user group for PLUSNET CUSTOMERS
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have you guessed the film yet?
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Destroying what discussion? You gave reasons and I asked why because I felt the reasons you gave were not valid. I'm sorry if I cannot agree with the attack, attack mob.
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should i give you a clue?
begins with
Top
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Judging by the wave of PMs from PN reps to AG members over the past few days, PlusNet are very keen that some of the news posted on the PUG site should also be posted here. But you can't have PlusNet selectively managing the AG forum as if it were their awful newsletter -- leaving out all the stuff they would prefer was never publicised and only posting their spin.
Fwiw, I have - and have always had - read-only access to the PUG forums (not sure how or why) and I have found it very easy not to re-post here all of the same old, sad old stories that customers keep complaining about there, or the fact that they don't get satisfactory answers - or any answer at all in many cases. The place is full of customers who have been suffering for weeks. Hardly any of it is new or newsworthy enough to re-post it here -- and on the all-too-rare occasions that PlusNet do actually come up with a meaningful response, they make sure that it gets posted here too - typically via a PUG member.
The rest of it is the PUG conspiring to delay action which should have been taken by PlusNet weeks and months ago. They run polls on the most minute of details (eg the preferred order of the recorded messages on the automated phone support line) while burying their head in the sand about the big picture, the careless policies, the broken promises... Yes, one or two of the PUG members sympathise with customers whose complaints are too awful to be true and promise to escalate - but there is little evidence that anything actually happens.
To be fair, the tone of the place has changed a little recently since the sycophantic quasi-Potesta editorial about PlusNet's walk-out from this forum, allegedly penned by Liam (and thereby presumably qualifying himself for employment at PN Towers). The news and editorials are now well-written by wildmind and do at least include some realism (thereby presumably ensuring that he will never be offered employment at PN Towers).
But my interest in the PUG forum is purely as an observer. I have no wish to post there and nor have I bothered to arrange for any contribution of mine to be posted there by someone else.
There are plenty of customers now who can easily see PlusNet's failings for themselves, without my help, and some who have realised that litigation may be the best way to get their problems resolved. In any event, the atmosphere there is no better than it was here when PN reps were active - and presumably as a consequence, PN staff don't poke their head above the parapet there very often either - at least not without a tin hat on.
In short, I don't believe that anyone would gain very much on that forum if ex-customers were allowed to post; nor would any ex-customers or potential customers get much benefit from read-only access. In fact, it would give potential customers an alarming view of PlusNet service.
I think they should be left to get on with it. I don't see that they have any obligation to open up the forum - especially when they would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing so.
But I do think that PlusNet reps should return here. This is a public forum and they should be more concerned about it and the effect it has on potential customers.
Simon
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I think that you can only defend PN so much on this forum when you yourself are "attacking" them on theirs. What you are posting there is considered as an attack by both you and PN if done here.
BTW, do you deny that PN have major problems and issues and have had them for over 10 months? You come across as someone with a moral basis to shut everyone else up and only to listen to you but you might have noticed that no one has tried to stop you posting.
You will also notice that extremely unhappy customers are not only posting in their own, PUG and this fora but don't forget this forum:
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=unhappiness&PHPSESSID=
BTW, you might not like other people posting about your current ISP even if they were customers in the past and left because of an appalling service but that is your opinion and we will continue to post when and for as long as we need or feel the need to.
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And this is why, even as a customer, I view the PUG as a useless bunch of numpties, whose are there to make the right noises, redirect complaining threads on the "offical" forum and nod every time they're told something will be done.
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I am not defending PlusNet - I'm defending the rights of CUSTOMERS to have a forum where outside trouble makers are kept out of it.
The big difference is I am a paying customer so entiled to make comments on the service I am receiving. I would not dream of going onto forums of other ISP's poking my nose into what does not concern me.
The other big difference is I'm a concerned and interested customer where as you are just a trouble making busy body poking you nose into something that does not concern you. You have no true interest in PlusNet or their customers all you want to do is keep stirring up trouble. If you have any interest in ISP customer service or standards you would be on the forums of other ISP's far worse than PlusNet.
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Well lets blow smoke up your [censored], just because you don't agree.
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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Does that matter.
Or is a NDA neeede for the PUG site.?
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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Yes, but its not open to all customers or advertised to customers.
Like most things PlusNet offer, if you can't find it yourself, I doubt you will get to use it. They seem a little over secretive most of the time.
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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>Yes, but its not open to all customers or advertised to customers.
Of course it's open to all customers.
>Like most things PlusNet offer, if you can't find it yourself, I doubt you will get to use it. >They seem a little over secretive most of the time.
There are no end of mentions of the PUG in PlusNet posting even though PlusNet do not OFFER IT because it's not run by them.
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<Quote>
There are no end of mentions of the PUG in PlusNet posting even though PlusNet do not OFFER IT because it's not run by them.
</Quote>
You'd be surprised to know that this isn't really the case with the relationship between the PUG and Plus.net, i.e. they are a lot closer than say this forum and Plus.net are.. and some people would allege that it's in pretty much the same way that a small foreign country might have a puppet Government which is backed by one of the super-powers in the world. 
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard 
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Sun 27-Aug-06 11:25:59)
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There are no end of mentions of the PUG in PlusNet posting even though PlusNet do not OFFER IT because it's not run by them.
-----
They used to claim that the PN portal forum wasn't run by them either - which was proven to be JAPL.
Simon
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> JAPL
Just a pack of lies?
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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Just another PlusNet lie - but yours will do.
Simon
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Ta for that..
I guess that you had to make it an acronym form given the amount of times that it's had to be used in this forum alone...
I think that things started to go downhill after they introduced the traffic shaping in an underhand way then denied all knownledge of it until the forum members on here and on the Plus.net run forum brought up the evidence that their ADSL connections were being tampered with.
At this point the company/customer relationship was damaged and it could no longer be seen as being based on trust any more. 
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Sun 27-Aug-06 11:52:14)
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Well I only found out about it, after I migrated and I had been with them for 2 years.
Even if its not run by PlusNet, you would think they would encourage its use!
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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>Well I only found out about it, after I migrated and I had been with them for 2 years.
Who's fault is that? Plenty of other people have found it without any problem.
>Even if its not run by PlusNet, you would think they would encourage its use!
They DO!
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How can you find something you know nothing about, duh hello!!
Obviously if I had known it existed I would have joined.
Do you actually think before you post!!!
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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I only ever recall them saying it was not moderated by them but then I suppose you can twist anything said to suite yourself if need be.
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>How can you find something you know nothing about, duh hello!!
>Obviously if I had known it existed I would have joined.
Well if you don't read what's written you won't know will you. How do you think everybody else found the forum. Trouble is some people want their hand held all the time and blame others because they can't be bothered to do anything for themselves.
>Do you actually think before you post!!!
Do you?
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They DO actually moderate it... they communicate to the mods advising them which members ask awkward questions and which ones need to be ejected for causing trouble by asking repeated questions.
Even one of the mods at the time threatened to quit over being what he thought was being pressurised by Plus.net to punish these people for airing their views.
If the forum wasn't run by Plus.net in some way, why was Plus.net's Carol Axe calling Simon and Wadev telling them that they were no longer wanted as customers, and all this for asking certain questions on the Plus.net forum?
Read about it here:
http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32495
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Sun 27-Aug-06 12:19:02)
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Only when I am discussing items with someone who obviously dislikes PlusNet getting a bad rep.
Although all their bad rep has been caused by themselves.
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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There's a big difference in airing your views (which many people do) and being deliberately disruptive. I suspect that many of the complains came from customers who were sick and tired of these plonkers hijacking the forum.
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Some people could actually say the same about your posts George!
BTW, was the word "plonkers" really necessary given the fact that you don't know the people such as Wadev personally so you can't base your judgment on your own opinions?
Edit:
This quote from Liam Martin is interesting..
<Quote>
Posted: 23 Aug 2005 18:30
I must say I am surprised. We were not notified or consulted in anyway - you would have thought they might have let us know that they had threatened to ban someone.
I'm wondering where the instruction came from....
</Quote>
Taken from this URL on the Plus.net forum:
http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31971
It does seem that the Plus.net forum wasn't as independent as it was made to believe.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Sun 27-Aug-06 12:37:25)
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Please don't make me dig out all the links on a BH Sunday. You could just trust me as I don't tell lies. Sometimes I do speculate but I use appropriate terminology.
You seem to think that any criticism of PlusNet by an ex-customer must be invalid and/or a distortion of the truth. That seems to be symptomatic of your 'vendetta' against the ex-customers and non-customers who contribute to this forum. Perhaps this is your own way of fighting back against the people who Mr Potesta has told you are waging a vendetta against PlusNet -- but it's neither productive nor mature. The best thing you could do if you want to counter the tide of PlusNet criticism here would be to post postive news and views about PlusNet rather than waste your time trying to expose an imagined vendetta. The PlusNet reps should be doing the same instead of running for cover when they ran out of answers.
Simon
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I have access to the PUG forums through one of my referal accounts (who hasn't left yet) and I haven't felt the desire to copy and paste the contents on this forum.
I was a happy Plusnet customer once but left sharpish when I saw the way they where going and didn't like what I could smell in the air from Plusnet.
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This post by Liam pretty much summed up the feeling at the time and I'm sure that a lot of people agreed with what was said...
<Quote>
Posted: 23 Aug 2005 21:21
Plusnet seem to be forgetting that there are a team of moderators on this forum that put in a hell of a lot of time and effort to make these forums accessible for everyone and a pleasure for people to visit.
Part of our moderation involves restricting access to those users causing problems... and this is always carried out at our discretion when we belive somebody is causing a nuisance and/or breaking forum rules.
In this instance, it came as quite a shock to myself (and the others I'm sure) that not only had Plusnet taken matters into their own hands and decided that if a user continues posting, they will restrict their account - but also - that they failed to even notify us, explain their actions etc... We had to find out from the user on here - and we still haven't had any word or feedback from Plusnet despite a PM sent and the issue being raised in our Senior Lounge forum.
We have routines and procedures that we follow for restricting users access. Plusnet have people like us giving up our spare time to help them out and help out the community to relieve them of the pressure and work of moderating it themselves.
From what I have seen of Wadev's posts - yes he does post fairly frequently and isn't afraid to say exactly how he feels. But none of the posts I have seen have broken any forum rules and why cudn't the Comms team / Ben just ignore him.
If Ben was concerned, then why didn't he come to us?
I am speculating that this is not down to Ben. But rather down to an instruction coming from someone higher up the chain. I would also speculate that the reasons for this would be more to do with the bad publicity that could be being promoted by negative posts in the Customer Feedback forum.
I must say that I am shocked and upset and I never expected this of Plusnet to be honest.
They have made a big mistake in my opinion. Not only do they appear to be completely disregarding the moderators as a team of people who give up a lot of combined time to assist them as well as generating a huge backlash of bad publicity including a huge thread on ADSLGuide.
Hopefully I won't be next for the chop for posting my true feelings. I never was one to keep my feelings to myself and if I feel Plusnet need to be criticised then I am happy to do so.
Plusnet really need to turn themselves around and instead of focusing on trying to stop people trying to create bad publicity, they should try and fix the reasons people feel they need to complain in the first place.
Im afraid I refuse to just brush this under the carpet. I am not posting this on behalf of the other moderators. But I am sure they are just as bewildered and unhappy as I am. Correct me if I am wrong, guys.
_________________
Liam Martin
</Quote>
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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and PCSNI puts in his bit as well..
<Quote>
Posted: 23 Aug 2005 21:42
I have had to read this thread several times and still cant believe it.
What on earth did they hope to acheive by such a rediculous move.
There have been Plus Net PR disasters in the past, but a blatent and ill conceived stunt such as this beats them all.
Thank goodness for ADSL Guide and Plusnetters because if this is the way management are thinking at PN Towers it wont be long before we wont have a forum.
Freedom of speech?..........where did that principle go.
Nice move guys.
_________________
Mark
PlusNet Small Business Customer and Forum Moderator
</Quote>
It seems that by your definition Plus.net did the right thing even though 2 moderators of the said forum believe that it was a knee-jerk reaction.
You can see why some people get upset with your comments when you base your replies on here not on fact but on what you perceive to be true..
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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"The big difference is I am a paying customer so entiled to make comments on the service I am receiving. I would not dream of going onto forums of other ISP's poking my nose into what does not concern me."
So as an ex customer of 6 years, i have no valid cause for questioning? Of course it concerns me, i may want to make an informed decision before considering going back.
"The other big difference is I'm a concerned and interested customer where as you are just a trouble making busy body poking you nose into something that does not concern you."
Again a classic quote, from someone who is so intent on keeping th forums free from perosnal attacks. I would compare a person of your callibre, as someone who starts a war, and then crys to the UN when they are getting hammered.
George you cannot imho argue so positively and constructively on other boards, and then at the same time show no regard or respect for people on another forum, just because they do not wear the same shade glasses.
Please, i ask once again, keep the insults, and use them somewhere else.
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<Quote>
I am not defending PlusNet - I'm defending the rights of CUSTOMERS to have a forum where outside trouble makers are kept out of it.
</Quote>
Just out of curiousity, who amongst the Plus.net customers nominated you to be our spokesperson?
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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I think you must be looking at yourself OM - I'm certainly NOT waging any sort of vendeta against anyone. I'm not the one on another ISP forum looking for every snippet of information to have a dig at.
However, I do feel very sorry for the sad individuals like yourself who have so little to do with their time that they spend it on a forum of other people ISP just to stir up trouble. There should be help on the NHS for such an illness.
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George, if i was an admin on here, that would have got you banned.
can i ask you a hypothetical question, seems as you have now destroyed my original post?
If i were back with Plusnet as a customer, posting in the same forums,would you show me the same hostility?
I genuinely asked the PUG a question and you have once again alienated my view point. If you have any decency about you, please copy my original post onto the PUG forum and see whether you can discuss it like an adult on their forum. Then post me the final outcome.
As for the mods on ADSLG, you might as well chalk this one down as a flame war and please lock it.
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>So as an ex customer of 6 years, i have no valid cause for questioning? Of course it >concerns me, i may want to make an informed decision before considering going >back.
As an EX customer you have no rights to any facilty or service from a company.
>Again a classic quote, from someone who is so intent on keeping th forums free from >perosnal attacks. I would compare a person of your callibre, as someone who starts >a war, and then crys to the UN when they are getting hammered
You judge me wrong OM, oh my word do you!!
>George you cannot imho argue so positively and constructively on other boards, and >then at the same time show no regard or respect for people on another forum, just >because they do not wear the same shade glasses.
Respect has to be earnt and from what I see on this forum a lot do not deserve any respect. I would never claim PlusNet is perfect, neither would they, but there are far worse ISP's around as they are not subjected to the same barrage of trouble making by a small group of individuals like those who appear on this forum.
This forum has been ruined for genuine customers by these individuals and they are intent in keeping it that way. Not only is the company constantly under attack but also customers and members of the user groups. This forum used to be a nice friendly place for customers and prospective customers to come for advice. Now all they see are a bunch of non customers who have hijacked the forum attacking anything and anyone that has anything to do with PlusNet. That will NOT earn any respect from me!!
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This forum has been ruined by People like YOU and Plusnet Marketing Reps telling lie after lie ,
____________________________________________
ZeN 8000 Pro Stable and No Traffic Management
Hosting my sites at - http://www.cn-hosting.co.uk
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"As an EX customer you have no rights to any facilty or service from a company. "
roflmao - so you are effectively saying that any ex customer has no right to ask or demand a better service? Do you not understand how a business works? Customers are the lifeblood of any company, winning back ex customers is easier to do then recruit new ones.
"You judge me wrong OM, oh my word do you!! " i would love you to prove me wrong
"Respect has to be earnt and from what I see on this forum a lot do not deserve any respect."
On this forum i have respect for you, you earnt that by posting valid constructive criticisms, however you are quickly losing any respect by coming out with personal attacks. We may not share the same view points, however we share the same forum.
"Now all they see are a bunch of non customers who have hijacked the forum attacking anything and anyone that has anything to do with PlusNet."
the only attacks i can see are from yourself, now correct me if i am wrong:
1) you are not an ex customer
2) you are a present customer
3) you are the only one dishing out attacks
4) you are the only one destroying and massively taking my thread off topic
The only difference between you and me, is that you are a customer and so i would suggest you reowrd the above quote.
Now please do as i so nicely asked you, and ask my question on the PUG forum.
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>George, if i was an admin on here, that would have got you banned.
Of course you would because truth hurts don't it.
>can i ask you a hypothetical question, seems as you have now destroyed my original >post?
Never touched your orginal post
>If i were back with Plusnet as a customer, posting in the same forums,would you >show me the same hostility?
What hostility? If you make a post on here and don't want any comments unless they agree with you say so!
>I genuinely asked the PUG a question and you have once again alienated my view >point.
See above!
>If you have any decency about you, please copy my original post onto the PUG forum >and see whether you can discuss it like an adult on their forum. Then post me the final >outcome.
No thank you I don't cross post on other forums
>As for the mods on ADSLG, you might as well chalk this one down as a flame war and please lock it.
Help it's getting to hot for me lock the thread 
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as they say in Austin Powers
yeahhhh..... whateva
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As an EX customer you have no right to DEMAND anything just as anyone who have never been a customer has no right.
Go into any shop, walk up to the manager and say " I'm not a customer of yours, I think your shop stinks" then start demanding that he rearranges his shop to suite you and see how long you can remain in the shop before getting kicked out on your backside.
Don't try to teach your grandmother how to suck eggs when it comes to running a business. Don't judge others by your own standards.
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roflmao - so you are effectively saying that any ex customer has no right to ask or demand a better service? Do you not understand how a business works? Customers are the lifeblood of any company, winning back ex customers is easier to do then recruit new ones.
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I see that you have ignored my very valid questions to you in this thread regarding several topics that you've raised, i.e. the independence of the Plus.net hosted forum yet you've gone and baited Soundsystem instead.
I see that you have become what you have openly said that you detest on this forum..
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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Why do you think that BT retail keeps advertising that ex subscribers of theirs keep returning and likewise with the power companies too?
A customer is a customer regardless of whether they are a first-timer or have been tempted back the company in question.
The ADSL market is slowly reaching saturation point and the amount of people who haven't had a taste of ADSL is becoming less and less and if Plus.net don't start trying to get past subscribers to come back then they will slowly find out that there isn't going to be a queue of new subscribers at the door any more.
For example, can you tell me that you've never received a letter from a company such as Sky asking if you would consider returning to them after you cancelled their subscription?
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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>Some people could actually say the same about your posts George!
Yes I dare say they can.
>BTW, was the word "plonkers" really necessary given the fact that you don't know the people such as Wadev personally so you can't base your judgment on your own opinions?
Did I mention any names? So if the cap fits.....!
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"I genuinely asked the PUG a question and you have once again alienated my view point."
But you got a genuine answer to your question here http://www.plusnetters.co.uk/forums//viewtopic.php?t=786 which was very polite but at the same time straight to the point.So why do think someone posting the same question to the PUG on your behalf is going to get any different an answer.
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You generalised that people who caused the so called trouble on the Plus.net forums were indeed "Plonkers" even though they weren't in anyone elses eyes but yours. This is hardly an answer and more of the fact that you don't have anything to substantiate the use of the term.
Once again you are basing your judgments not on the facts.
So basically by the same token, you are saying that "if the cap fits" some people on here would say that you could be one too for your behaviour on here.
I haven't twisted your words, only re-iterated what you have said here, I suppose that is fair enough then.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Sun 27-Aug-06 15:50:50)
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HI
you are correct, however that was posted @ Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject:
I have now read this, and am grateful to Mark for making this reply
"So why do think someone posting the same question to the PUG on your behalf is going to get any different an answer. "
i asked that question before seeing Marks answer, so therefore George does not have to worry about asking on PUG now, i have my answers.
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>Why do you think that BT retail keeps advertising that ex subscribers of theirs keep returning and likewise with the power companies too?
The reason people return to BT is because the service they changed to was not as good as they thought it would be. BT did not change the company to get these people back and the same applies to power companies.
>A customer is a customer regardless of whether they are a first-timer or have been >tempted back the company in question.
True, no argument with that. BUT if you are not a customer of BT or power company you don't enjoy any of their services whilst your not a customer and you cannot complain to those companies about any service they provide. And that is just what non customers are trying to do on this forum.
>The ADSL market is slowly reaching saturation point and the amount of people who haven't had a taste of ADSL is becoming less and less and if Plus.net don't start trying to get past subscribers to come back then they will slowly find out that there isn't going to be a queue of new subscribers at the door any more.
That's a different subject altogether. When you run any company you offer a service which customers and prospective customers can either purchase or not. You don't run a company for non customers to tell you what's right and what's wrong. You certainly don't run a forum so that the opposition can hijack it to attack you and ruin it for your customers.
>For example, can you tell me that you've never received a letter from a company such as Sky asking if you would consider returning to them after you cancelled their subscription?
Of course but that has nothing to do with the sort of thing that's happening on this forum.
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This smacks of a little I am far superior to you and always have to be right and have the last say on everything.
Different people have different opinions, build a bridge and get over it.
Last time I checked we still had freedom of speech or is PlusNet trying to stop that as well?
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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What proof do YOU have that others do not think they are "Plonkers". I think maybe you are also basing on your judgement and not on facts. I think my judgement may be a bit better than yours by the fact there are hardly any PlusNet customers left on this forum since it was hijacked where as it was almost all customers before hand.
>You generalised that people who caused the so called trouble on the Plus.net forums were indeed "Plonkers" even though they weren't in anyone elses eyes but yours. This is hardly an answer and more of the fact that you don't have anything to substantiate the use of the term.
Once again you are basing your judgments not on the facts.
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Well unfortunately no one else has called them plonkers on this forum, so I wouold base that as a fact!!
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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Ah so you don't like a debate where you can't get your own way then?
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Well there you go then, there has to be a first time for everything.
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Not that at all, I just dislike the way you offer your arguments, sorry discussions and they way that you have decided that ex-customers can not offer or should not their opinions on this forum.
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
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Sorry about that but it works both ways - I don't like the way some people on this forum attack anyone who speaks out against their views and think they should be allowed to say what they like about a company and nobody must disagree.
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> The reason people return to BT is because the service they changed to was not as good as they thought it would be. BT did not change the company to get these people back and the same applies to power companies.
Can you prove that to be the case in very single transaction that takes place? Maybe BT has changed something which that particular subscriber weren't happy with before but you can't generalise with such a sweeping statement.
Some people like myself haven't moved over to another home phone supplier because I have been able to see the pro's and con's of doing so by checking independent websites such as AG.
> True, no argument with that. BUT if you are not a customer of BT or power company you don't enjoy any of their services whilst your not a customer and you cannot complain to those companies about any service they provide. And that is just what non customers are trying to do on this forum.
Again you are generalising that all the trouble makers on here are non customers. How about the ones that have left Plus.net but would like to join back at a later time? Of course there are the Buggerluz's (sp) of this world but surely you could be man enough to ignore their (possibly) childish rants on here?
It is better to know when to say somethng rather than know what to say.
> You don't run a company for non customers to tell you what's right and what's wrong. You certainly don't run a forum so that the opposition can hijack it to attack you and ruin it for your customers.
Err, why do companies go on expensive marketing exercises where they ask the general public how they would like the company to go?
The forum in question doesn't have to be read/write access to everyone like Souundsystem has said, in pretty much the same way that the Plus.net run forums allows guest (read-only) access to the forums so that you can see everyone pretty much in black and white and before you say anything, the Plus.net run forums have hardly been "vandalised" because it is only read only.
> Of course but that has nothing to do with the sort of thing that's happening on this forum.
It has everything to do with this forum because it is the argument that some ex-subscribers are using to say why if the conditions were right they would be more than happy to re-join Plus.net. You can't just ignore this argument because it doesn't fit in with what you have to say.
Before you reply to this thread, just stop for a minute and think about this question..
Have you ever benefitted from anyone ever raising an issue with a company such as Plus.net which gets the company to change something which has benefitted you?
I know that I have because my subscription went down when I was told that I could get exactly the same product that I was paying for at the time but for less money and that only happened because people on here and the Plus.net forums dedicate their personal time to find out why somethings were happening. If it weren't for these people I would be worse off in the pocket even though nothing had really changed.
As an off topic, I suppose you might be the type of person who wouldn't want to benefit from joining the Money Saving Expert's mailing list. Martin, who runs the site isn't a customer of every single company he metions in it but he does tell people what they need to do to get the best deals..
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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I think that you'll find that I am referring to the Plus.net run forum and NOT THIS ONE!
Read my text again please..
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Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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and PCSNI puts in his bit as well..
<Quote>
Posted: 23 Aug 2005 21:42
I have had to read this thread several times and still cant believe it.
What on earth did they hope to acheive by such a rediculous move.
There have been Plus Net PR disasters in the past, but a blatent and ill conceived stunt such as this beats them all.
Thank goodness for ADSL Guide and Plusnetters because if this is the way management are thinking at PN Towers it wont be long before we wont have a forum.
Freedom of speech?..........where did that principle go.
He has moved on since then and now fully endorses the Plusnet mantra.
Actually he is a two faced type of being; but that is my own opinion. Others probably adore him.
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I have no idea of the situation between you both so can't really comment.
It does seem that people can change over time though otherwise why would there be a profession for divorce lawyers?
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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tbh telluric :-)
that is my major concern over the PUG proclaiming they are 100% independant, you only have to look at sites that contain PUG members and how they have dropped them, as they dont toe the party line.
Personnally i have no problem with any of the PUG members, however they are not completely independant which is a shame. The vast majority of PUG members also appear to be moderators on the Plusnet forums. How on earth can you offer an unbiased view?
/cues flames from george
Edited by soundsystem (Sun 27-Aug-06 23:15:23)
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In reply to:
How on earth can you offer an unbiased view?
And what will happen to Plusnetters when Liam becomes a Voice of the Customer?
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In reply to:
And what will happen to Plusnetters when Liam becomes a Voice of the Customer?
Who can say... Probably what his mentor tells him to do I would guess.
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>Can you prove that to be the case in very single transaction that takes place? Maybe BT has changed something which that particular subscriber weren't happy with before but you can't generalise with such a sweeping statement
Can you prove it's not?
>Again you are generalising that all the trouble makers on here are non customers. How about the ones that have left Plus.net but would like to join back at a later time? Of course there are the Buggerluz's (sp) of this world but surely you could be man enough to ignore their (possibly) childish rants on here?
Let me repeat for you what I have said before. IF you are a customer of an ISP you have the right to complain if you are not getting the service you pay for. If you are NOT a customer you have no right to complain because you are not paying for any service.
>Err, why do companies go on expensive marketing exercises where they ask the general public how they would like the company to go?
You obviously do not understand the difference between a company carrying out a survey and being told what to do!
>Have you ever benefitted from anyone ever raising an issue with a company such as Plus.net which gets the company to change something which has benefitted you?
What's that got to do with whats being discussed?
>I know that I have because my subscription went down when I was told that I could get exactly the same product that I was paying for at the time but for less money and that only happened because people on here and the Plus.net forums dedicate their personal time to find out why somethings were happening. If it weren't for these people I would be worse off in the pocket even though nothing had really changed. <
You might find this hard to understand but a lot of people, myself included, do not rely on others to keep them informed.
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> Can you prove it's not?
I wasn't the one saying that all the people only go back to BT or their power company because they didn't get better service elsewhere, you made that comment. I said that sometimes a company does change positively for it's customers and ex-customers as seen by Plus.net's commitment to change for the better.
> Let me repeat for you what I have said before. IF you are a customer of an ISP you have the right to complain if you are not getting the service you pay for. If you are NOT a customer you have no right to complain because you are not paying for any service.
Let me repeat what I said, any company worth it's salt will be looking for new business and if they can get a newcomer to provide them an idea as to how they can get that business then I'm sure that the company will be trying their hardest to get your business.
I think that what you say is a complaint, other people would put it down as a suggestion.
> You obviously do not understand the difference between a company carrying out a survey and being told what to do!
And you've obviously never received a phone call from a company that asks you how you would like to offer talior made services in order to gain or keep your custom. Have you never been placed on a customer mailing list because you have had an interest in something?
Plus.net do make a point of asking for both positive and negative feedback though a company does have the right to completely disregard any suggestions put forward to it, it doesn't have to carry something out just because someone mentioned it in passing.
No company would be expected to change policy on the hoof just because someone mentioned something on here though it does seem like a lot of ad-hoc thinking goes on at Plus.net.
> What's that got to do with whats being discussed?
I am just curious if you've been complaining about people who cause a company to change it's policies but then you have benefitted from them yourself, such as gaining quicker download speeds or greater bandwidth limits because others have complained that the previous ones were no longer competitive.
> You might find this hard to understand but a lot of people, myself included, do not rely on others to keep them informed.
OK, so if a company such as Plus.net is going to keep something secret you can guarantee that you can find out what it is, just like that?
A lot of stuff only comes out after a whistle-blower or someone else with inside knowledge drops hints to places like AG or there have been times when even someone else makes a smart observation puts two and two together such as the traffic shaping debacle.
In this situation Plus.net denied it until the point where they had to come clean after their was evidence pointing to them of lying.
Are you telling me that you would be capable of knowing exactly where to go to look or who to ask in order to find out the truth? If so then you are probably a lot of clout with plus.net, more so than even Andrew or Don from AG.
Edit: engaging you in this thread has been a good insight and I will have to change my mind and agree with the others that you can be quite a condescending person at the best of times.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Mon 28-Aug-06 00:38:01)
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"Edit: engaging you in this thread has been a good insight and I will have to change my mind and agree with the others that you can be quite a condescending person at the best of times."
thank you ... i thought i was becoming paranoid
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I'm afraid to say that I gave George the benefit of doubt but after engaging him on here I find that I will have to eat humble pie.
I have never dealt with anyone like him before and I worked for 20 years in customer facing Customer Services! LOL!
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Mon 28-Aug-06 00:23:53)
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what gets my goat, is George on other forums can argue, twice as vocally as here, reasonably, without degrading the other posters.
Why not on here?
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Well, apparently it's his God given right to complain because he's a customer I guess...
Does he feel that the non Plus.net customers are beneath him and isn't worthy of talking about Plus.net whether positively or negatively?
I wonder if the Plus.net CSC have used their "notes" field with him?
Edit: Bringing this thread back on topic, I still reckon that you'd be wasting your time asking for the PUG to open up the forum to non Plus.net customers as there isn't really anything that can be accomplished there that can't be done elsewhere. Sure, the Plus.net ISP will be using the PUG forum to post exclusive stuff but I'm sure that the spies from within will be able to glean as much out from there so you won't be missing much anyhow.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Mon 28-Aug-06 00:35:19)
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>I wasn't the one saying that all the people only go back to BT or their power company because they didn't get better service elsewhere, you made that comment. I said that sometimes a company does change positively for it's customers and ex-customers as seen by Plus.net's commitment to change for the better.
Why else would they return? They certainly would not return to get a worse service!
>Let me repeat what I said, any company worth it's salt will be looking for new business and if they can get a newcomer to provide them an idea as to how they can get that business then I'm sure that the company will be trying their hardest to get your business.
Yes of course any company worth it's salt looks for new busines but not at any cost and not by being bullied by a bunch of people constantly attacking them.
>I think that what you say is a complaint, other people would put it down as a suggestion.
I've seen very few suggestions on here from Non customers. 99% of what you see on this forum is individuals scrouing what information they can get and pulling it to pieces.
>Plus.net do make a point of asking for both positive and negative feedback though a company does have the right to completely disregard any suggestions put forward to it, it doesn't have to carry something out just because someone mentioned it in passing.
Yes indeed they do but constructive feedback. There is a big difference between constructive feedback and what goes on in this forum.
>Edit: engaging you in this thread has been a good insight and I will have to change my mind and agree with the others that you can be quite a condescending person at the best of times.
By that I presume because I cannot agree with everything you say!
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Well I've worked in customer facing services for nearly 50 years from managing a small shop at 15 years old to running many hundreds of garages so please don't try to tell me about customer service or running a business.
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> Why else would they return? They certainly would not return to get a worse service!
Again, you're just guessing. Unless you have personally conducted a survey asking every single person who has left a particular company only to return afterwards, you don't really know. Funnily enough if you read the forums youi can read that some people have gone back to Plus.net and did get a worse service than before!
I've seen people go back to a company after the said company has changed for the better so I can't see how Plus.net couldn't do likewise and even Soundsystem was considering going back to Plus.net earlier this year because he saw some changes in Plus.net that he liked.
> Yes of course any company worth it's salt looks for new business but not at any cost and not by being bullied by a bunch of people constantly attacking them.
Would they prefer to be attacked by their shareholders at the next meeting then for being incompetant and losing their share value and not gaining enough market share over the last quarter?
Personally I think that the word bullied is very strong to use in this context as it's not as if anyone at Plus.net has been bashed around the head physically or subjected to mental torture that they are no longer able to work at Plus.net. The plus.net reps certainly give as good as they get! Most people would have used the word bickering to describe what has been going on here because if it were deemed to be "bullying" I am sure that the mods would have started banning a few people because real bullying is unacceptable in any society.
In fact, some of the ex-Plus.net reps say that it's Plus.net that does the bullying with the work ethics and how they have sometimes unreachable targets and pressures placed on them.
For example, how many companies do you know that tell their workers to work through their own personal lunch breaks because they cannot afford to lose the staff for that 1 hour?
What you have to remember is that Plus.net are the cause of their own problems, if they hadn't screwed up so many times would their customers be angry with them for being kept on hold for over 1 hour on the phone or not get their tickets replied to or failing that, getting their tickets closed accidently with no resolution?
If Plus.net didn't keep creating all this issues then the anti-Plus.net people wouldn't have anything to say because there would be nothing to talk about. Until Plus.net can get themselves sorted out for the better there will be some criticisms, a bit like almost every football fanatic believes that they can do a better job than the manager of the football team that they support.
> I've seen very few suggestions on here from Non customers. 99% of what you see on this forum is individuals scrouing what information they can get and pulling it to pieces.
Again, conjecture, if you could be kind to pull out every link so that we can all see where this magical 99% is? It's funny how some of the suggestions that people on here make including advising Plus.net to get some proper backups for their email systems and to stop using dodgy scripts which haven't been tested properly have been conveniently forgotten! There were some non customers who even offered to help Plus.net design a system for backing up emails because that was what they had as their profession.
> Yes indeed they do but constructive feedback. There is a big difference between constructive feedback and what goes on in this forum.
The great thing about feedback is that you can ignore it, as Plus.net seemed to have done quite well, even from their own customers. No one is going to suffer a fate worse than death because they haven't agreed to anything that is said on here. If you take everything that you read on here too seriously then I suggest that you should switch off your PC and have a nice walk in the park whilst the weather is still good.
> By that I presume because I cannot agree with everything you say!
Totally wrong, if you re-read your words again you'll see what I mean, i.e. the put downs that you place at the beginning to some of the replies as if to say that no one on here can understand your superior intellect. That, I feel is condescending.
I may not be as experienced in life matters as you but I certainly don't resort to putting down the opposition just to make myself feel better about myself, probably because I don't feel insecure.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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If you re-read my reply to soundsystem again you'll see that I never did tell you how to run a shop or about customer services. You're jumping to the wrong conclusion, again.
All I said that I have never met anyone like you before! I fail to see how you could have thought that I was telling soundsystem anything else.
Here's my quote to save you the trouble of searching..
<Quote>
I have never dealt with anyone like him before and I worked for 20 years in customer facing Customer Services! LOL!
</Quote>
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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When I first contemplated a broadband connection I looked to these forums for views from current and ex customers of many ISP
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P.S Does that make you better than anyone else on here then?
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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"Well I've worked in customer facing services for nearly 50 years"
Keep plugging away. I'm sure you'll get promoted soon!
TT
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In reply to:
They DO actually moderate it... they communicate to the mods advising them which members ask awkward questions and which ones need to be ejected for causing trouble by asking repeated questions.
If that's regarding what I think it is, then I don't recall (as a moderator) being asked who was asking awkward questions and needed to be ejected.
In reply to:
Even one of the mods at the time threatened to quit over being what he thought was being pressurised by Plus.net to punish these people for airing their views.
Again, I think the person threatning to quit actually threatened because we WEREN'T consulted on anything.
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> If that's regarding what I think it is, then I don't recall (as a moderator) being asked who was asking awkward questions and needed to be ejected.
Fair enough, if I am mistaken then I apologise though at the time the consensus on that forum was that it seemed that Plus.net were asking the mods to keep a sharp eye on some of the people visiting that forum especially given that Wadev had started talking about taking Plus.net to the Trading Standards and when things did get out of hand, Plus.net did the banning themselves citing that the Plus.net run forums were an official means of support (contrary to what they had said before when people had asked them if they could hold the Plus.net reps to what they had posted in a court of law).
> Again, I think the person threatning to quit actually threatened because we WEREN'T consulted on anything.
I've since posted the response from Liam about the ban on Wadev anyway which explained how he felt at the time.
BTW, did they ever did find out why Ben Brown called Wadev to drop the bombshell rather than for him to get some sort of warning from the mods first?
Ironically this thread has gone so off topic now given that it was only started when Soundsystem said that he wanted the PUG to give open access to all, which I totally disagree with. There isn't really anything that can be done over there that can't be done with the other forums which are more open. The plus.net reps will ensure that any news is diseminated out to people who need to know such as Andrew and Don anyhow.
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Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Mon 28-Aug-06 15:39:29)
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"Wouldn't it be a little shady if a group of pee'd off ex/current plusnet customers decided to start a closed community designed for complaining/anti-plusnet discussions ?"
There is one already:
http://www.pissnet.co.uk/
Rob
PlusNet Premier Option 1 MaxDSL @ 8128 / 448
DrayTek Vigor2800VG (Firmware v2.7_E38)
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In reply to:
To be fair, the tone of the place has changed a little recently since the sycophantic quasi-Potesta editorial about PlusNet's walk-out from this forum, allegedly penned by liam
Nope, quite definitely penned by Marco himself.
Ian
Edited by deleted (Mon 28-Aug-06 21:25:54)
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Nope, quite definitely penned by Marco himself.
-----
I was of course referring to the sycophantic news article on the PUG website. Liam denied that it had been written by Mr Potesta and seemed strangely proud to take the credit for it.
Simon
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mrblobby, Mark has responded to my question on plusnetters, can i ask if you agree or disagree with my op?
thank you
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No of course not but having run very large businesses for most of my working life, a lot of that time bringing businesses back from bankruptcy, I think I can be given credit for knowing a bit about business.
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Hi George,
what would you do to sort things out?
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Well that's rather difficult to judge from a distance because no one has the full facts as to who does what and who is responsible for what.
However, my top priority would be to get the customer service not only back to where it used to be but improved further. No matter what goes wrong or what problem a customer may have it is much less of a problem if the customer knows their issue is going to be dealt with quickly and they will be kept informed. This would mean scrapping some of the automated system and it would cost money but money is never wasted when it comes to customer service. In my opinion you can judge the quality of any company by the way they treat their customers. Happy customers = Growth - Unhappy customers = bankruptcy
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Well, I have to admit that I've never been privy to your private life so I wouldn't have known about your other skills in life though you have to admit that it doesn't make your opinions on here anymore valuable than anyone elses.
If you want to help a business that is currently in trouble perhaps you should offer your services to Plus.net because I for one don't want to see them going down the pan.
Ironicially I totally agree with you that the PUG should be left the way that it is and I have been saying that throughout this thread though somehow that mesage has kind of got lost in all the other bits and bobs..
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Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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"However, my top priority would be to get the customer service not only back to where it used to be but improved further."
Wrong approach. Get the *service* back to how it used to be and support calls will diminish. Then you can work on improving support.
TT
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In reply to:
This would mean scrapping some of the automated system and it would cost money but money is never wasted when it comes to customer service.
This isn`t an option PN are prepared to take according to Ian Wild.
In reply to:
In my opinion you can judge the quality of any company by the way they treat their customers. Happy customers = Growth - Unhappy customers = bankruptcy
Which way do you see PN heading at the moment?.
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Thank you George
In an ideal world, please list me what changes you would like to see made. I am just curious, because i feel both myself and you (as well as others) want the same things, however we are customers and ex customers and that seems to be the stumbling block on here :-(
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Which is pretty much what I said here, so we can agree on some things then?
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2636809
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Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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It would take a long time to get the services to what they were before, they may even require to lease another central in the meantime to tie things over because the LLU move isn't happening as fast as they had expected it to be.
Dedicating more people to the support would mean that no one has to suffer with constant unanswered questions or long queue times, etc
BTW, what happened to the BT 155Mb (or was it 622Mb?) centrals that came over when Metronet was absorbed? I thought that they had to continue leasing the centrals for a fixed period?
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Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
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To be honest I don't think there is a lot wrong with the service PlusNet provides in general. Leaving recent problems aside the main problem that I see, as I said before, is the customer service. Any issue for a customer no matter how small magnifies several fold if they can't get that issue solved or they feel they are being ignored.
Strangely enough having said the above some of the problems PlusNet bring on themselves by being too open. I'm not saying this is a bad thing on the contrary it should continue. But were as other ISP's do not inform their customers when things go wrong so keep customers in the dark, PlusNet are always open and honest and admit when things have failed. Because some people are armed with this knowledge it give them amunition to attack the company and often make a mountain out of a mole hill.
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"Strangely enough having said the above some of the problems PlusNet bring on themselves by being too open. "
I would argue that they are only now becoming open and honest, and as a result of their decline. This is not an attack, an observation. I feel if they had been more open since the days of the bad boy pipe, they could have avoided this.
"Leaving recent problems aside the main problem that I see, as I said before, is the customer service."
Which they assure us is been worked on as we speak
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>This isn`t an option PN are prepared to take according to Ian Wild.
They may have no option if customers will not accept the automated system. It's rather like the police - They can only police by public consent - PlusNet can only survive by customer consent.
>Which way do you see PN heading at the moment?.
I would say at the moment they are just hanging on with a slight slant downwards. Maybe thing will change with the new changes, time will tell. However, I would judge this is their last chance to put things right and it needs to work in weeks rather than months.
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"I would say at the moment they are just hanging on with a slight slant downwards. Maybe thing will change with the new changes, time will tell. However, I would judge this is their last chance to put things right and it needs to work in weeks rather than months. "
something we agree on - stone the crows
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In reply to:
Leaving recent problems aside
Isn't that akin to saying that "ignoring what's gone wrong recently, nothing has gone wrong recently"?
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Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington
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>I would argue that they are only now becoming open and honest, and as a result of their decline. This is not an attack, an observation. I feel if they had been more open since the days of the bad boy pipe, they could have avoided this.
No can't agree with that they have always been open and honest. Even with regard to the BBP they did warn many times before it was introduced that a minority could not carry on the way they were. The only thing I could take issue with at the time, and it was a mistake in my opinion, was not to give a hard figure as to what was acceptable. However, that is all water under the bridge now, we need to look forward not backwards so long as past mistakes are learnt by.
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>Isn't that akin to saying that "ignoring what's gone wrong recently, nothing has gone wrong recently"?
No because they know mistakes were made and were very honest and up front about them. No one can go through life without making mistakes, It's what you learn from your mistakes that counts
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>Wrong approach. Get the *service* back to how it used to be and support calls will diminish. Then you can work on improving support
What part of the service are you refering to?
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"No can't agree with that they have always been open and honest. "
see that is where our view points differ. Your definiton of honest and open is clearly different to mine.
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In reply to:
were very honest and up front about them.
There wasn't much choice- losing the best part of a terabyte of mail isn't easy to hide... In reply to:
It's what you learn from your mistakes that counts
Speaking as a Metronet customer, and hence acknowledging that a fair bit of my information about Plusnet is second hand, I have yet to see any real evidence that they have learnt anything at all from past mistakes. If that has abruptly changed in the last few weeks then it's a good thing, but I remain sceptical.
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Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington
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>see that is where our view points differ. Your definiton of honest and open is clearly different to mine.
Where do you think they have not been open and honest?
By the way this thread is getting very long and off the orginal subject. Can I suugest we start another thread.
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>There wasn't much choice- losing the best part of a terabyte of mail isn't easy to hide...
You see this is one such remark which is wrong. They could simply have said they had a server or storage failure and left it at that. Instead they went into great detail to explain what went wrong. OK it did not make the matter any better but they were open an honest and by doing so left themselves open to attack.
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"It would take a long time to get the services to what they were before"
I was referring to MAX'd and LLU'd folks who didn't have a service.
"Dedicating more people to the support would mean that no one has to suffer with constant unanswered questions or long queue times, etc"
It isn't necessary with logistical planning. Remember, PN MAX'd and LLU'd folks at the same time resulting in a huge volume of support calls. Network enviroments are always changing, but increasing the rate of change results in increasing support calls. You staff the support centre *before* you start making changes, not after. If you are migrating folks over a period of time, hire casual/short term/contract workers until the migrations are finished. It isn't rocket science.
"BTW, what happened to the BT 155Mb (or was it 622Mb?) centrals that came over when Metronet was absorbed?"
IIRC the last 155Mbps central of the three is nearly out of contract. MN were session heavy, not bandwidth heavy so they were easy to absorb.
TT
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"What part of the service are you refering to?"
A service.
TT
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In reply to:
You see this is one such remark which is wrong
See new thread.
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Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington
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Er that quote did say a "closed fourm" and I like the independent and carries one of the worst adverts that PN ever invented.
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