BT Price Increase

BT warns it will increase phone bills by 6.5%
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28902300

BT has warned millions of customers it is increasing its prices by up to 6.5% from December this year.

It will increase the line rental for direct debit customers by 6.25% to £16.99, and the rate for calling UK landlines by 6.44%.

£17 line rental!! I only use it for broadband!! :/

Does anyone know if BT Basic will allow me to have broadband connection on it?

Does this affect those of us already in a contract?

Official announcement http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/46728...

In reply to a post by hypertony:

Does anyone know if BT Basic will allow me to have broadband connection on it?

They allow you to have basic broadband which has a 10GB limit. Not sure if they allow or are able to prevent third party broadband services.

You have to be on certain benefits to get BT basic.

http://www.bt.com/includingyou/other-products-servic...

In reply to a post by brandscill:

Does this affect those of us already in a contract?

Yes, but it seems they will allow you to cancel without penatly if you wish.

Given the past patterns, I fully expect others to now slip into the £16 to £16.75/month for their line rental too.

So before rushing away, be sure to do the research and work out the full basket of costs and benefits.

Another option for those happy enough with service, but annoyed at price rise is line rental saver and/or lock in to another contract term which may see a better offer made.

The problem is we're all paying for the "FREE" BT Sports whether we want it or not.

John.

And BT Cloud and Parental Controls and free WiFi and free YouView boxes and free HomeHubs and weekend calls as people learn to make use of that more ...

If the increase is JUST to cover BT Sport then we will not see the other providers increase too.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If the increase is JUST to cover BT Sport then we will not see the other providers increase too.

Not necessarily. BT might raise their prices because of BT Sport, the other providers might raise their price to make more profit whilst still being "cheaper than BT".

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

And BT Cloud and Parental Controls and free WiFi and free YouView boxes and free HomeHubs and weekend calls as people learn to make use of that more ...

In the same way as people forget about there being no such thing as a free lunch.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If the increase is JUST to cover BT Sport then we will not see the other providers increase too.

Not necessarily. BT might raise their prices because of BT Sport, the other providers might raise their price to make more profit whilst still being "cheaper than BT".

From what I've been told, providers have to increase line rental in line with BT, not sure whether this is due to Openreach maybe increasing costs to ISP's or if their if BT have some sort of control over the market..

Wasn't it only Late January/early February that prices where increased too, though I did see this about to happen considering the price jumps on Line Rental Saver and the poor savings compared to monthly line rental.

It could just as easily be the costs of running the network based parental controls that are free to all but many don't want too.

The big Q on BT Sport is how much does a pub pay around £5k/season I think, and how many pubs (around 20,000 best guess) they have and whether there is a benefit in terms of people signing up to YouView and the incremental stuff like movie rentals.

If BT did not do Sport or YouView they would be the odd one out in the UK.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

From what I've been told, providers have to increase line rental in line with BT, not sure whether this is due to Openreach maybe increasing costs to ISP's or if their if BT have some sort of control over the market

Who told you that? Which part of BT exactly, I am presuming BT Retail? As such, BT Retail do not tell other providers what to do, apart from maybe their own assets.

Maybe worth reading http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6604-inflation-bu... which shows that wholesale prices have actually fallen, where as Retail pricing for the big 4-5 ISPs have actually crept up.

Openreach Wholesale Line Rental is at its lowest since 2006. (I've no idea what it was before then).

It is now £91.05pa + Vat having dropped on 1 July from £96.17pa + Vat. That's just under £7.59pm.

Divide the ISP rental charge by 1.2 then subtract £7.59 and that's how much they are taking towards overall customer cost.

I don't know if big ISPs can negotiate bulk discounts as well.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 23-Aug-14 13:21:42)

In reply to a post by hypertony:

£17 line rental!! I only use it for broadband!! :/

Same here, i don't even have a phone plugged in to it, as its upstairs my broadband line, my phone service is on the line downstairs, and that ones through SSE now, as i switched it to them years ago as a lot cheaper than BT, never bothered with my broadband line, as it was only around £15 the line rental when i got it put in.

Ive been umming and arring for a while now about upgrading my Sky LLU to their Fire service, and this news has made my mind up, as when you take their Fibre, you have to take their line as well, which is cheaper, so im definitely switching now.

You have two lines, one for phone and one for broadband? Any reason for that?

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

From what I've been told, providers have to increase line rental in line with BT, not sure whether this is due to Openreach maybe increasing costs to ISP's or if their if BT have some sort of control over the market

Who told you that? Which part of BT exactly, I am presuming BT Retail? As such, BT Retail do not tell other providers what to do, apart from maybe their own assets.

Maybe worth reading http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6604-inflation-bu... which shows that wholesale prices have actually fallen, where as Retail pricing for the big 4-5 ISPs have actually crept up.

Well it first came from Virgin's executive department, I then asked an openreach engineer, and also asked sky's sales team and they all said something similar to "we have to keep our line rental prices in line with BT's"

Sky I can understand as they rent from Openreach, But Virgin AFAIK run there own phone network.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Openreach Wholesale Line Rental is at its lowest since 2006. (I've no idea what it was before then).

It is now £91.05pa + Vat having dropped on 1 July from £96.17pa + Vat. That's just under £7.59pm.

Divide the ISP rental charge by 1.2 then subtract £7.59 and that's how much they are taking towards overall customer cost.

I don't know if big ISPs can negotiate bulk discounts as well.

Well that's what I thought too, but still prices seem to be going up more often and not creeping up any more either.

Take a look at the wholesale price and you will see that is on a downward trend so nothing to this 'gossip'

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Take a look at the wholesale price and you will see that is on a downward trend so nothing to this 'gossip'

As mentioned, I know they are lower than ever before but I though I would mention what I've been told as it might shine some light on it being a possibility but I'm now sure its not as many including you have dismissed it.

So maybe it is that the cost of offers for new customers and promotions that we didn't really ask for are being passed onto use, whether we link it or not.

and if it is related to BT sport, then shouldn't that only affect customers of BT Group owned providers and not the likes of other LLU operators such as TalkTalk

Well if I can get out of my BT contract no penalty I'm doing it! Terrible customer service from day one

So how come Zen line rental is still £11.22 with no tie-in or call connection charges?

In reply to a post by professor973:

So how come Zen line rental is still £11.22 with no tie-in or call connection charges?

That's a good question, and I didn't say it was fact.

My answer to your question would be because its Zen, They have always been good with customers (to my knowledge)

Pubs pay a monthly subscription based on their rateable value ... and could be anywhere from £150/month upwards.

Hotels - a typical 200 room hotel will pay around £800/month or almost 10k/year, then there are the various clubs and sports clubs, betting shops, restaurants and more. That starts to increase number of locations significantly.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

and if it is related to BT sport, then shouldn't that only affect customers of BT Group owned providers and not the likes of other LLU operators such as TalkTalk

Even the likes of Sky and Talktalk are dictated to by BT for their pricing, since they rent the copper lines from BT Openreach for their MPF services. The government does regulate Openreach's wholesale pricing, though.

Historical MPF/SMPF/WLR pricing is included in this graph

Quick chart shows difference in trends over time of wholesale vs consumer in line rental. Competition failure? pic.twitter.com/YVN7Wb4MOR

— thinkbroadband.com (@thinkbroadband) August 23, 2014

In reply to a post by professor973:

So how come Zen line rental is still £11.22 with no tie-in or call connection charges?

IIRC that price isn't available with Zen broadband FTTC.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 23-Aug-14 19:37:59)

LLU prices here. It needs a few items adding together to arrive at a single figure for MPF and SMPF, as opposed to the one for WLR I posted earlier.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by professor973:

So how come Zen line rental is still £11.22 with no tie-in or call connection charges?

IIRC that price isn't available with Zen broadband.

I thought one could take Zen ADSL broadband (broadband-only) on a one month minimum term http://www.zen.co.uk/home-office/broadband/home-offi... and also have Zen line rental at £11.22 also on a one month minimum term?

Some negotiation might be required for the combination of Zen FTTC and the Zen £11.22, one month minimum term line rental though. It would probably be slightly more expensive overall than their FTTC/line rental packages but for folks wishing to keep their line rental separate it might be an option?

Have you seen something in the Zen T&C's that says the £11.22 one month minimum term line rental is not available if one has Zen broadband? I have Zen line rental but haven't seen anything about changes to T&C if I were to take Zen ADSL on a one month minimum term.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

and if it is related to BT sport, then shouldn't that only affect customers of BT Group owned providers and not the likes of other LLU operators such as TalkTalk

Even the likes of Sky and Talktalk are dictated to by BT for their pricing, since they rent the copper lines from BT Openreach for their MPF services. The government does regulate Openreach's wholesale pricing, though.

I know that, what I should of said was if I'm a broadband customer on TalkTalk LLU that doesn't get a discount for BT Sport, why should i have to pay the extra for something I either don't get because I don't subscribe or pay full price for it through Sky or Virgin even.

That of course is if the price increases are related to BT Sport!

Edited by mlmclaren (Sat 23-Aug-14 17:27:47)

As all them years ago when i got broadband in, it was easier to get another line in upstairs for it, than having to trail a cable all the way up from the box downstairs, next to the front door.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

I know that, what I should of said was if I'm a broadband customer on TalkTalk LLU that doesn't get a discount for BT Sport, why should i have to pay the extra for something I either don't get because I don't subscribe or pay full price for it through Sky or Virgin even.

If you're on TalkTalk LLU then BT Retail price increases are not going to affect you.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

I know that, what I should of said was if I'm a broadband customer on TalkTalk LLU that doesn't get a discount for BT Sport, why should i have to pay the extra for something I either don't get because I don't subscribe or pay full price for it through Sky or Virgin even.

If you're on TalkTalk LLU then BT Retail price increases are not going to affect you.

I know but the reason for that post was "are the other ISP's going to follow suit"

In reply to a post by hypertony:

£17 line rental!! I only use it for broadband!! :/

As do I.

I'm outta there

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

I know but the reason for that post was "are the other ISP's going to follow suit"

They might, they might not. ISPs raises prices sometimes, it's a fact of life. You either stay, or you leave. You still seem to be under the misconception that BT Retail's pricing somehow forces Sky and Talktalk to alter theirs. It doesn't.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

They might, they might not. ISPs raises prices sometimes, it's a fact of life. You either stay, or you leave. You still seem to be under the misconception that BT Retail's pricing somehow forces Sky and Talktalk to alter theirs. It doesn't.

and as I also mentioned previously, I didn't say it was, but what i was told by 2 reputable ISP's and an openreach engineer.

Saying switch providers is great but eventually they all follow suit (if they follow suit that is) but BT wouldn't be as stupid enough to put the prices higher than the competition without knowing the competitions price would also increase in line with that or everyone would just leave and go else where like you said.

If BT are silly enough to do that then bye bye BT broadband.

I'm with Virgin Media as per my sig, and realistically at there mercy as alternative connection is ADSL2+ at 2mbps

In reply to a post by troublegum:

In reply to a post by hypertony:

Does anyone know if BT Basic will allow me to have broadband connection on it?

They allow you to have basic broadband which has a 10GB limit. Not sure if they allow or are able to prevent third party broadband services.

You have to be on certain benefits to get BT basic.

http://www.bt.com/includingyou/other-products-servic...

Last time I checked any ISP's ADSL broadband-only (not sure about VDSL broadband-only) can be used on a BT Basic line. The BT Basic Broadband product is just one particular deal offered by BT Retail - the impression given that that is the only broadband service possible on a BT Basic line.

BTW. my aunt is very happy with BT Basic (she doesn't have broadband) until we have to contact BT Retail regarding line faults, billing, etc.

Will they give you a MAC if you're still in contract does anyone know? Or do you have to cancel?

Sorry. I should have said that on Zen FTTC the £11.22 line rental is not available.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by professor973:

So how come Zen line rental is still £11.22 with no tie-in or call connection charges?

IIRC that price isn't available with Zen broadband.

Correct, but I think you will agree that has little to do with BT line rental. On the other side of the coin, Zen don't insist upon taking line rental with broadband or tie you in unless talking fibre. As you know, I find Zen line and Freeola broadband a perfect combination of good service, decent price and no tie-in.

In reply to a post by brandscill:

Does this affect those of us already in a contract?

Seems so.

My line rental is going up by £1, but the discount is going up by 15p, so 85p increase for me...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Sorry. I should have said that on Zen FTTC the £11.22 line rental is not available.

Thanks - I just saw an ADSL and line rental "consolidation" http://www.zen.co.uk/home-office/voice/phone-service... and nothing in the T&C's, I thought perhaps you had seen something that I had missed

The B4RN crew are loving this. A couple are taking great delight in pointing out that those of us in cities on things like Infinity are going to be paying £16.99 / month in line rental alone without any broadband when they are paying £30/month for something over 12 times faster than anything those of us outside VM areas can get.

Farmer Giles in the middle of nowhere having superior broadband at lower prices than our cities. Awesome.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

Farmer Giles in the middle of nowhere having superior broadband at lower prices than our cities. Awesome.

That has to be the most selfish, egocentric, post I have read here on a long time - and I have read a few!

Don't worry there are still plenty of us on exchanges that haven't been upgraded to 21CN and struggle to get a stable connection let alone a fast one

Wouldn't even say I'm super rural, massive tesco only 10 min drive away

In reply to a post by Stevenage_Neil:

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

Farmer Giles in the middle of nowhere having superior broadband at lower prices than our cities. Awesome.

That has to be the most selfish, egocentric, post I have read here on a long time - and I have read a few!

Okay.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

The B4RN crew are loving this. A couple are taking great delight in pointing out that those of us in cities on things like Infinity are going to be paying £16.99 / month in line rental alone without any broadband when they are paying £30/month for something over 12 times faster than anything those of us outside VM areas can get.

Farmer Giles in the middle of nowhere having superior broadband at lower prices than our cities. Awesome.

You should post that to David Cameron, MP

seriously though I suspect we would see quite a few B4RN type deployments in cities if the legalities were easier. The good thing about farmers fields is only one farmer to talk to, and pay, to get across the field. In towns / cities the number of owners you have to get permission from to run a 1km fibre is often insane :-/

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

The B4RN crew are loving this. A couple are taking great delight in pointing out that those of us in cities on things like Infinity are going to be paying £16.99 / month in line rental alone without any broadband when they are paying £30/month for something over 12 times faster than anything those of us outside VM areas can get.

Farmer Giles in the middle of nowhere having superior broadband at lower prices than our cities. Awesome.

You should post that to David Cameron, MP

seriously though I suspect we would see quite a few B4RN type deployments in cities if the legalities were easier. The good thing about farmers fields is only one farmer to talk to, and pay, to get across the field. In towns / cities the number of owners you have to get permission from to run a 1km fibre is often insane :-/

That's the rub - the current regulatory and taxation environment actively dissuades infrastructure competition.

I very much hope there are a ton of B4RN deployments and it catches on profoundly. It may actually make people look at the numbers and realise that where the UK is deficient against our peers isn't our rural coverage of SFBB, where we are above the average, it's FTTP in urban areas where frankly we suck.

After all those years of rural dwellers complaining about the digital divide it'd be hilarious to see city dwellers complaining about only being able to get 76Mb over pretendy-fibre while some rural dwellers are packing BDUK-funded FTTP or altnets.

If it's self-centred of me to point out the disconnect and economic harm of urban areas having the same or worse services than rural areas so be it. That makes each and every person who ever complained about the 'digital divide' egocentric too so I'm in plenty of company.

Anyway I'm rather distracting from the thread. Merely wanted to illustrate what a total rip off line rental is.

If Ofcom had any testicular fortitude they'd be looking at the clear cartel-like behaviour on line rental. There is zero reason why all the big players have such convergent line rental costs with such rapid increases when their wholesale costs have dropped.

That's a clear competition failure, however Ed Richards and company are too busy getting orgasmic over what they consider the awesome results of their regulation to notice. Ed Richards is the tool who plays up FTTC and considers it some fantastic success of the UK market rather than trying to engineer an environment where more investment in infrastructure is rewarded and welcomed.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

That's the rub - the current regulatory and taxation environment actively dissuades infrastructure competition.

Completely agree with you, especially to the failure of ofcom to regulate real competition.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Another option for those happy enough with service, but annoyed at price rise is line rental saver and/or lock in to another contract term which may see a better offer made.

I tried a couple of weeks ago to renew my contract and they said they could not renew at my current prices and that if I renewed they would increase significantly. It was agreed that I should let my contract lapse and just continue on a monthly basis paying my current price (subject to any price rises like the one due in December).
In December I will be paying £1.45 more per month which as far as I am concerned means Im still on a good deal.

The Line Rental Saver increases seem rampant at the moment.

The price has only just been raised from £141 this month, and it'll be £169 before the end of the year. 20% in a few months is crazy.

Thankfully I've just signed up for the Post Office's £120 deal so at least don't have to worry for another year.

I've just signed up with plusnet. If a company offers a way out of a contract, it would be rude not to take it

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

I've just signed up with plusnet. If a company offers a way out of a contract, it would be rude not to take it

Did you get notification of the increase or did you just ring up? Which department you speak to?

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

I've just signed up with plusnet. If a company offers a way out of a contract, it would be rude not to take it

My contract runs until October but I'd like to get out of it sooner if possible.
Did BT allow you terminate your contract due to the forthcoming increases and how long did it have to run?

In reply to a post by brandscill:

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

I've just signed up with plusnet. If a company offers a way out of a contract, it would be rude not to take it

Did you get notification of the increase or did you just ring up? Which department you speak to?

I haven't had formal notification. I rang the generic "cancel some service" number and the lady was a bit useless. I rang but gave up.

From a landline: 0800 345 7310

I then tried to request a MAC via 0800 328 6738. I explained that I had seen the press reports of the price increase and wanted to confirm that it meant I did not need to honour my minimum term. He confirmed this and after a few minutes he gave me my MAC.

If you can't get your MAC today (I think they are closed) it's worth signing up via quidco anyway as their Plusnet offers expire today and the plusnet site allows you to provide the MAC after sign up.

Plusnet "legal" from their Home Page

�This offer is available to new Plusnet customers signing up from plus.net between 9th July and 2nd September 2014.

Or do you mean the Quidco £100 offers which do expire in under 2 hours.

Yeah I meant quidco's offer expires today. Top cashback's offer used to be near £100 but is now £35, so I'd expect quidco to go down too even if it is temporary.

£100 cashback and 6 months discount is pretty good

Plusnet FTTC is fine .

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

Yeah I meant quidco's offer expires today. Top cashback's offer used to be near £100 but is now £35, so I'd expect quidco to go down too even if it is temporary.

£100 cashback and 6 months discount is pretty good

Quidco cashback is now down to £35.

Cool! Think I'll do that next week. I live relatively rurally and my internet isn't the greatest so I'm probably going to move to save money in general. Post Office will save me a fair amount though I'll also look at plusnet.

Looking through BT phone packages I saw Home phone saver and it says

"The price is £19.99 per month including line rental. This price is fixed until at least 1st January 2017. Provides inclusive calls of up to an hour to UK*, 0870 and 0845 numbers at any time of the day. Calls in excess of an hour will be charged at 9 pence per minute at any time of the day. Includes 50% discount on call rates to UK mobiles (excludes roaming mobiles). Calls to mobiles and chargeable UK* calls are subject to a 15p set-up fee. Includes 200 free texts (requires compatible handset). Includes access to 3 BT Calling Features at no extra charge (opt in required): BT Privacy Caller Display, Anonymous Call Reject and Choose to Refuse."

Does it include anytime calls? Can one use this and have broadband with another ISP?

Yes, that is just a BT landline package with extras so just go to whoever you want for your broadband.

shocking, you mind if I send this to ofcom?

so circa £10 in 2008 for what is about to be around £16 just 4 years later. shocking, and this is alongside increases on caller display, connection charges, and call costs as well.

his point is actually very valid.

The UK has it backwards. Our rural areas have much better broadband then other countries but our cities are lagging behind. There is a strong argument the weak infrastructure in cities is due to subsidising rural areas.

Managed to call today using the number you provided, thanks for that

Was relatively painless, just have to wait for my MAC code now.

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

In reply to a post by brandscill:

Cool! Think I'll do that next week. I live relatively rurally and my internet isn't the greatest so I'm probably going to move to save money in general. Post Office will save me a fair amount though I'll also look at plusnet.

My parents are on an exchange which is basically the same as yours. On the PN website the unlimited BB is £9,99 a month and with line rental it comes down to £18.50. This is the breakdown(12 month contract)

Unlimited broadband£9.99
Promotional discount (for 12 months) - £7.49
Plusnet Protect powered by McAfeeIncluded
Line rental£15.95
Weekends Included
Voicemail (1571)Included
Monthly total£18.45


That's an old market 1 exchange which is 20CN only. worth a consideration for sure

If the price for broadband started of at £9.99 it can't be an old school market 1 exchange.

This is what I get

Monthly payment

Unlimited broadband£17.49
Promotional discount (for 12 months) - £7.49
Plusnet Protect powered by McAfeeIncluded
Line rental£15.95
WeekendsIncluded
Voicemail (1571)Included
Monthly total£25.95

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Aug-14 18:05:32)

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

I then tried to request a MAC via 0800 328 6738. I explained that I had seen the press reports of the price increase and wanted to confirm that it meant I did not need to honour my minimum term. He confirmed this and after a few minutes he gave me my MAC.

I phoned today and can confirm that my contract ends on October 11th.
I was offered a £4 reduction in broadband charges (unlimited ADSL) and a £2 reduction for Anytme calls
BUT
all requests to terminate the contract early without penalty were met with a firm 'NO' from the advisor and his manager - both of whom were English.
Suppose it depend who you get on the other end of the phone and I may try again although there's not long to go anyway

Guess it does depend which is very annoying. I called just under an hour ago and cancelled with no fee. I recorded the call because it wouldn't be the first time BT lied to me.

I guess as there is some LLU presence it's cheaper as there is cheaper competing services.

No LLU in slinfold sadly

The agent that gave me mine suggested it had been hit and miss getting them instantly, so I was expecting to have to wait. Thankfully after a couple of minutes he got the code.

Have no problem it is public and the data was culled from our news of price announcements and changes to ISP listings.

Reminds me - need to add the changes on 1st December warning to the BT listings.

Have you managed to get your MAC yet? I was told up to 7 days I need to wait.

I requested a MAC code this morning and was told it would be sent via email in the next 48 hours.

In reply to a post by jw6520:

I requested a MAC code this morning and was told it would be sent via email in the next 48 hours.

Good to see BT tell their customers different things

Makes you wonder if its some kind of delaying tactic?

I was just told 7 days this morning as well. I pointed out that it was meant to be 5 maximum; but there wasn't any point arguing with the friendly guy on the other end of the line. (edit ... Especially as I was wrong, as Oliver341 has just pointed out). I'd already disappointed him by not taking any of the discounts he had to offer. He said it might well be today or tomorrow.

Edited by StephenTodd (Tue 26-Aug-14 15:51:08)

In reply to a post by StephenTodd:

I was just told 7 days this morning as well. I pointed out that it was meant to be 5 maximum;

Ofcom rules are 5 working days, which is at least 7 days, possibly more when public holidays come in to play.

In reference to consumers.ofcom.org.uk/internet/broadband-switching/switching-broad...:

Your existing ISP must provide the MAC to you within five working days and it�s valid for a period of 30 days.

Edited by Oliver341 (Tue 26-Aug-14 15:50:05)

Thanks for the correction.

"Your existing ISP must provide the MAC to you within five working days and it�s valid for a period of 30 days.

You should then present the MAC to the ISP you want to switch to and it will then process the request to migrate and inform you of the transfer date.

The service should then be transferred seamlessly and with little or no disruption of service."

The MAC key being valid for up to 30 days before one presents it to the gaining provider but the actual date of the migration may be more than 30 days from the date the MAC was issued?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

The MAC key being valid for up to 30 days before one presents it to the gaining provider but the actual date of the migration may be more than 30 days from the date the MAC was issued?

The important date is when the new ISP provides it to Openreach with a migration order. If for any reason you give it to the ISP on day 30 and they don't submit it to Openreach until day 31 then Whoops!

Yes re the migration date can be later.

In reply to a post by brandscill:

Have you managed to get your MAC yet? I was told up to 7 days I need to wait.

I got mine immediately on the phone, I didn't have to wait on any email.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

The MAC key being valid for up to 30 days before one presents it to the gaining provider but the actual date of the migration may be more than 30 days from the date the MAC was issued?

The important date is when the new ISP provides it to Openreach with a migration order. If for any reason you give it to the ISP on day 30 and they don't submit it to Openreach until day 31 then Whoops!

Yes re the migration date can be later.

Thanks Bob - it's been a while since I last migrated BB (PN to Xilo) which was on the basis of the PN monthly billing cycle and I received the MAC key 5 days into that final month. It made the migration very neat and tidy

How interesting... wonder if the delay tactics are to put you off because it's "hassle"

They will send it as promised, it's in their interest not to rile Ofcom.

Just got it text to me. I called up and was told the previous rep lied when she said it takes 5 days. This person generated it on the phone and text it to me as well.

Not convinced the first person flat out lied as everywhere online says it can take 5 working days but either way I have it now and I've just signed up with the Post Office.

They've lied from day one unfortunately, it's half the reason I'm leaving. They offered to pay the difference but with bad customer service and barely working Internet for most of my time with them (2 months) this is just what I needed.

I think it's more to do with company policy. It can't simpy be good agent vs bad agent. Maybe based on the number of calls in the queue?

Who knows but that's not a bad shout. Maybe if it's busy they just are your request to the stack to pick up later. I also think it gives them a chance for a senior rep to ring and offer you a deal.

It would appear BT have maybe become a little less likely to allow MAC codes to exit contracts early due to a price rise.
Just called and the nice lady at the other end checked with her manager and gave
a firm NO WAY until either an e-mail or letter is received as official notification of the price rise.
Well this has put the last nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned and I will definitely be moving when I get the chance.
BT obviously are aiming to get every last payment out of any customers before they MUST allow them to leave contracts penalty free.

With all the info here regarding much cheaper quality services, I am amazed it's taken you all this long to twig what BT are about regarding contracts and wonga.

In reply to a post by InternetUser:

It would appear BT have maybe become a little less likely to allow MAC codes to exit contracts early due to a price rise.
Just called and the nice lady at the other end checked with her manager and gave
a firm NO WAY until either an e-mail or letter is received as official notification of the price rise.
Well this has put the last nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned and I will definitely be moving when I get the chance.
BT obviously are aiming to get every last payment out of any customers before they MUST allow them to leave contracts penalty free.

I told her that I had seen it on their website and used their system to check my price rise. Apparently that was good enough. It does seem to be pure luck depending on who takes your call though.

I used that line as well but she was not taking it, even though it is an official
bt.com website page and clearly shows that my package cost will be increased.

I suspect they have had too many people ringing and asking to leave, ha ha, and
with the current deals on PlusNet monthly rates along with current Topcashback
offer they want to try and stop people moving at this advantageous time.

I guess they plan to send out the letters / e-mails when there is no offers running
with other ISP's in order to make any move less attractive.

There is never a time when no offers are running these days.

For those prepared to chase the best offer every 12 or 18 months costs can be kept down. Its like with supermarket shopping the savvy shopper will do well.

with current Topcashback offer

Thanks for pointing that out. I had just missed the Quidco good one and was resigned to their much newer new one. As MrSaffron says there are always some really good offers; but not always easy to find the best ones. I do wish they had more realistic retention offers to save the chasearound every 12 to 18 months.

I am waiting till I get my BT Mac code though after quite a few people seem to have found they got complete cancellation when starting the switchover without the Mac.

Back to the original post

£17 line rental!! I only use it for broadband!! :/

That's why it has to go up. Costs them the same to maintain the line regardless how you use it; and you are depriving them of the chance to screw you for telephone calls. (But don't forget their monthly charge for NOT making calls on the line rental saver.)

Edited by StephenTodd (Wed 27-Aug-14 17:49:45)

This is also the second price increase in line rental within the past 12mths and LRS,customers have not escaped either DEC 13 I payed £141 for LRS it was increased in May 14 iirc and is getting a further increase in December BT are nothing less than robbers,
Maybe they should ditch their loss leaders like their poxy BTsport channels and the extra net filtering/firewall that is only available to bt broadband customers , why make there telephony customers subsidise their poor buisness plans?

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 27-Aug-14 20:02:01)

Ditching the filtering/parental controls would go down like a lead brick with areas that hold power so not going to happen.

Its not just BT Sport, once you add the costs of hardware, youview boxes, free WiFi, BT Cloud. These are all reasons why BT is more expensive than its cheaper baby that is PlusNet, i.e. you don't get all the things millions appear to want.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Maybe they should ditch their loss leaders like their poxy BTsport channels and the extra net filtering/firewall that is only available to bt broadband customers , why make there telephony customers subsidise their poor buisness plans?

It's not a poor business plan that results in ever increasing market share. BT have been extremely successful in hoovering up the customers.

BT have a strong proposition in the 'complete broadband' market and their Plusnet arm has a strong proposition in the discount trade.

The question is the market failure on line rental. The question is why TalkTalk, Sky and monopoly provider, Virgin are increasing line rental way above wholesale costs.

BT are working Line Rental and the rest of the market are only too happy to join in and work an increasing margin.

What costs involved in "free" WiFi? You pay for access by agreeing to host an AP. For most of the sites the costs are covered by the host customer. Then they actually charge for access for non-ISP customers too.

But don't forget their monthly charge for NOT making calls on the line rental saver.

What charge is that? I can't find a reference to it on their web site after a quick search.

Yes it is true and I almost got caught out on LSR minimum number of calls.
You must make at least 2 calls per billing period for the LSR to be valid.
It is in the small print when you sign up

So zero costs to running that service, just like zero costs for parental controls?
Sport generates revenue, but because lots of people don't like football it is the easy target.

Without hard figures it is all speculation.

How much does 3 million home hub 5 cost ?

They used to have a min of 2 calls per month to get caller display for free but I am signed up to Line Rental Saver and have had months with no calls and had no additional charges levied. I also can't find any Ts&Cs generally available for LRS that suggest this is the case.

Parental controls probably have a software licensing cost. There may even be an ongoing cost to maintain the sites rating lists. Assuming that's how it's done.

3 million home hubs would still needed to have been provided even without BT WiFi. The software for the Hub to provide the service will come from FON.

Out of the added services BT WiFi has the potential to have a very low cost impact. Some mobile 'phone companies pay to have it available to their customers. Some people even pay direct to use it.

In reply to a post by ian72:

They used to have a min of 2 calls per month to get caller display for free but I am signed up to Line Rental Saver and have had months with no calls and had no additional charges levied.

And then it changed again, caller display is no longer free unless you re-contract line rental for a year.

Does anyone know if LRS counts as a re-contract and automatically offers free caller display without specifically having to "order" it?

My son did get a charge levied at one point.
It's possible that was because of free caller display (which he wasn't really using but might have signed up for as it was 'free')

BT don't seem to know ...

Here is a live chat session ...

I know line rental saver used to have a requirement to make a couple of calls a month or else an excess charge was made.
Does that still apply? I can't find any reference to it in the t&cs

Sithara Medakkandiyil: Hello. I'm Sithara Medakkandiyil. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
Sithara Medakkandiyil: Hello Stephen\
Sithara Medakkandiyil: Could you please confirm your BT account number?
Stephen Todd:xxxxxxxx
Stephen Todd: not that that is relevant to the question
Sithara Medakkandiyil: yes its still apply
Stephen Todd: many thanks for the clarification
Stephen Todd: can you point me at where it is stated in the terms and conditions, please
Sithara Medakkandiyil: Would you mind if I call you and put you through an advisor from customer option team who will be able to assist you further?
Stephen Todd: that's fine


The customer options team then told me that this was incorrect and that there isn't any excess charge.
(They also noticed my pending Mac and tried to hard-sell me staying with BT)


p.s. I don't think much of their automated system, as they had to keep asking for my phone number and account number.

Edited by StephenTodd (Thu 28-Aug-14 12:19:30)

I can't find it in the Ts&Cs either. I did find a link from a BT Community Forum posting in 2012 linking to a page that previously included this term in the The Legal Stuff. The updated version no longer includes this clause so unless someone can find a current link then it seems it must no longer be a requirement.

Just checked The Way Back Machine. Somewhere between 25 November 2012 and 27 March 2013 the 2 calls minimum condition was removed.

I signed up to my current Infinity 2 package in April. I then subsequently signed up to LRS at the end of July. I recently asked BT to tell me my contract end date. The information I was given, and emailed, was that the contract still dates from April and the 18 months runs from then.

Just signed up to LRS at the wrong time. I'm outside the 14 days so I stand to lose it if I switch. Makes it much harder to make a saving by switching provider. Still it may be possible.

Never said BT WiFi was the largest of things that impact on the costs, it is ONE from a basket of things that you do not get from providers like TalkTalk on their basic service.

In theory Ofcom should be able to investigate and figure it out, if they feel there is abuse of a situation. Personally BT can charge what it likes for line rental, but only if it lets its broadband customers move their voice line rental elsewhere.

Also Virgin Media need looking

In reply to a post by Kronos2001:

I can't find it in the Ts&Cs either. I did find a link from a BT Community Forum posting in 2012 linking to a page that previously included this term in the The Legal Stuff. The updated version no longer includes this clause so unless someone can find a current link then it seems it must no longer be a requirement.

Just checked The Way Back Machine. Somewhere between 25 November 2012 and 27 March 2013 the 2 calls minimum condition was removed.

I was charged £2.00 on my June 2013 bill, and again in August 2013, for not meeting the minimum call committment of 2 chargeable or inclusive calls a month.

Worst still was October 2012 - when I was charged twice for not making enough calls: £2.70 (BT Caller Display) and £1.50 (Line Rental Saver), total £4.20 !!!

I try to make a couple of calls a month to avoid this, so haven't been charged since.

In reply to a post by B31:

In reply to a post by Kronos2001:

I can't find it in the Ts&Cs either. I did find a link from a BT Community Forum posting in 2012 linking to a page that previously included this term in the The Legal Stuff. The updated version no longer includes this clause so unless someone can find a current link then it seems it must no longer be a requirement.

Just checked The Way Back Machine. Somewhere between 25 November 2012 and 27 March 2013 the 2 calls minimum condition was removed.

I was charged £2.00 on my June 2013 bill, and again in August 2013, for not meeting the minimum call committment of 2 chargeable or inclusive calls a month.

Worst still was October 2012 - when I was charged twice for not making enough calls: £2.70 (BT Caller Display) and £1.50 (Line Rental Saver), total £4.20 !!!

I try to make a couple of calls a month to avoid this, so haven't been charged since.

The charges are probably based on the date the Line Rental contract was taken out, not the date the calls were made. Maybe you were unlucky enough to get in on the tail end of the 'awkward' contract and so the term will still apply until the end of that line rental term? And maybe to the Caller Display even after that. Of several poor BT contract terms this must be one of the shonkiest.

Yeah, pretty poor idea for a charge! Charging for not using a service.

My phone contract runs Aug-Aug, so potentially I shouldn't have been charged if they no longer had those minimum spends listed prior to me renewing my LRS.

I've emailed in to their complaints team to see what they think.

In reply to a post by StephenTodd:

The charges are probably based on the date the Line Rental contract was taken out, not the date the calls were made. Maybe you were unlucky enough to get in on the tail end of the 'awkward' contract and so the term will still apply until the end of that line rental term? And maybe to the Caller Display even after that. Of several poor BT contract terms this must be one of the shonkiest.

Just moved my phone line rental to Zen, the increase has killed any chance of me taking BT Fibre - when Superfarce Wales finally get their act together and install our cabinet.

This is a quote from a BT forum Mod, on question I had asked on the BT community forum, earlier this year;

"the minimum call commitment was removed from Line Rental Saver on 22nd March 2013."

Presumably on new contracts from that date onwards.

Has anyone who recently cancelled BT received the following text?

Hello, BT here. We're sorry to hear you want to leave us. If you're getting a discount on BT Sport, it'll stop when you leave and we'll start charging you the standard monthly price of £12 a month (going up to £13.50 a month from 1 October 2014). You can call us on 0800 678 1974 to confirm any termination charges or ask any other questions. Thanks.

I think BT Sport just came as part of the broadband, I certainly didn't opt to have it (that I can recall) so I assume this doesn't apply and will just be taken away with the broadband?

I tried calling but they closed at 9 so might need to enquire Saturday.

Do you have BT Sport enabled on a Sky viewing card perhaps?

Nope, don't have sky. Wondering if it's just a generic text or whether something has gone wrong. Guess I'll need to ring.

In reply to a post by warweezil:

Just moved my phone line rental to Zen

But the cost of the line rental is similar to BT... so why move to Zen?

Just curious...

And without that Rented Line, you apparently would not have Broadband; unless you resorted to the other,generally more expensive methods of connecting to the Internet, eg mobile, satellite etc.

Also, do you have a corded, "land-line" phone attached, to receive Incoming Calls - or do you rely absolutely totally on Mobiles for both Incoming and Outgoing Calls?

Then ZEN basically pass that Line Rental cash straight on to BT, to have access to the OR/BT Line etc infrastructure!

In reply to a post by hypertony:

In reply to a post by warweezil:

Just moved my phone line rental to Zen

But the cost of the line rental is similar to BT... so why move to Zen?

Just curious...

Could it be that for £17.35 you get line rental + 5000 mins anytime calls to UK landline numbers on a monthly contact whereas for £17 you just get line rental? BTs minimum term is longer at12 months.

It's why get for your bucks that you need to focus on, not what Zen does with your income stream.

You were correct. I called up and it's a text they said they send to all customers incase they have it enabled via their sky viewing card. I said how do you know if it is or not and they said it's noted on the account. I asked why they send the text to everyone then but she wasn't sure.

Either way, I have it confirmed at least.

In reply to a post by hypertony:

In reply to a post by warweezil:

Just moved my phone line rental to Zen

But the cost of the line rental is similar to BT... so why move to Zen?

Just curious...

Maybe the £11.22pm product.

If the Line Rental is basically an OPENREACH Charge (to maintain etc the Phone Infrastructure etc), then any cross-subsidising to the ISP part of BT supplying '"FREE" BT Sports' would be illegal; and should be reported to the appropriate Regulator/s.

Can anyone enlarge on this aspect?

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

If the Line Rental is basically an OPENREACH Charge (to maintain etc the Phone Infrastructure etc), then any cross-subsidising to the ISP part of BT supplying '"FREE" BT Sports' would be illegal; and should be reported to the appropriate Regulator/s.

Can anyone enlarge on this aspect?

It is not illegal.

Service providers purchase a line from Openreach at a regulated price as a component of the service(s) they sell to End Users. The price for the product (or bundle of products) to the End User is not regulated - the SP is free to choose whatever price they like for their product. The rationale being that a competitive market will 'self-regulate' pricing at the retail level.

There is the 'Margin Squeeze test', which is to ensure that pricing is not too low and covers costs and a profit (margin).
This is to prevent predatory pricing where something is sold below cost to the detriment of competitors who would be put out of business if they sold at the same (loss making) price.

An analogy could be a company buys components from suppliers (let say microchips) that they use in building a computer. They buy these chips at the same price as every other customer of the supplier. They can choose to sell the computer at whatever price they like. The purchase of the components is one element of cost (and will no doubt influence the final price as costs need to be less than price), but price won't equal cost.

If the final price of the computer is deemed too high by End Users, they can or will buy from a lower priced competitor.

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Aug-14 10:25:08)

In reply to a post by hypertony:

£17 line rental!! I only use it for broadband!! :/

And how do you think the signals for your broadband travel between you and the cabinet/exchange? Line Rental pays for the maintenance of that connection and investment in improving it.

If you don't want to pay line rental sign up for a mobile or satellite service.

So you are saying that OPENREACH is allowed to cross-subsidise any other part of BT?

And that all OR Line Renters are providing part of the costs of BT Sport, although many (probably most) do not have access to BT Sport?

Is this not contrary to the legislation that led to OPENREACH being created?

No. Please read it again.

For regulatory and commercial purposes, BT Retail is separate from Openreach and BT Retail are treated in the same way as any other Service Provider by Openreach. Openreach sell connectivity between the exchange and the user's premises. This is only one part of a functional telephone service.

Openreach are paid the regulated price for the components they sell by the Service Providers (including BT Retail) they sell to.
This price is to cover their (Openreach's) own costs and profit. It is not used to subsidise any other part of BT. If this was found to be the case, OFCOM would be very heavy-handed I think.

The 'line rental' price charged to you by your service provider is higher than they pay to Openreach, as they have their own costs and profit on top.

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Aug-14 11:55:39)

As per Panda's reply, plus many people keep their line and calls with BT even when on a different ISP. I'm one. So my BT Retail costs keep going up, to pay for BT Sport and other goodies they hand out "free".

There's no point in moving it to one of the cartel-type pricers, leaves mainly Primus, the Post Office (I think), and Zen.

As panda says. Indeed there are graphs around showing that the Openreach charge for a line is increasing very slowly (or even decreasing) while the wholesale prices (from BT Retail and most others) are increasing wildly. It may be that BT Retail telephone is cross-subsidising BT Retail broadband.

Yes see the graph at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6604-inflation-bu...

The difference between what Openreach charge and what the retail charges are.

BT Consumer is at liberty to charge what it likes so long as it DOES NOT squeeze the competition unfairly, so line rental at £5 would not be allowed, but at £30/month the public would complain but the competition would not.

The basic Openreach charges is bare line rental, so costs of stuff like Weekend Calls, billing, support, caller ID options need to be added.

Zen clearly believe they have a small profit margin with the price of £11.22 they charge consumers who find out about them.

There is a question to be asked as to why other providers tend to follow the BT retail price rises closely.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

There is a question to be asked as to why other providers tend to follow the BT retail price rises closely.

.......to subsidise the dirt cheap broadband?

Bingo though latest Sky offer is interesting as free across minimum term for broadband and the voucher offsets a good chunk of line rental.

In reply to a post by StephenTodd:

Indeed there are graphs around showing that the Openreach charge for a line is increasing very slowly (or even decreasing) while the wholesale prices (from BT Retail and most others) are increasing wildly. It may be that BT Retail telephone is cross-subsidising BT Retail broadband.

Openreach line rental is the lowest since at least 2006. See my post earlier in this thread.

Thanks, Panda.

Effectively that is the answer I was looking for - that OPENREACH, as the "owners" of that connectivity, is not allowed to subsidise the costs of other BT "companies" and their offerings, particularly those which would clearly give the other parts of BT an advantage over the other ISPs.

Agreed that the Service Provider, whether other parts of BT or other ISPs, are free to then adjust their prices, some possibly viewing the Line Rental aspect as a "Loss Leader" or otherwise.

My thanks again for the clarification.

In reply to a post by Stevenage_Neil:

.......to subsidise the dirt cheap broadband?

BT's main DSL competition is from the MPF providers, Talktalk and Sky, and Openreach charge the same for MPF line rental regardless of what those providers push down the line. Hence why those provders mandate taking their line rental with their broadband, and hence why it makes no sense to take their broadband price in isolation, since you can't have it in isolation.

The main aim is to keep the "cheaper than BT" line rental mantra going, then play with the broadband price to make an attractive total cost for both services.

Quite different from the days of SMPF of course, where the providers had to price it to break even on its own, since in many cases the line rental revenue wasn't going to the ISP.

Hi all

Having asked BT for my Mac on Tuesday, I decided to chace today.
Anyway they say that cant give me one on the phone, as its generated by a
different dept., I would have to wait.
Also I was informed that until they actually inform me of the prices rises themselves, I would not be able to cancel the contract.
I am moving to Plusnet, they said they could keep the account open at the offer price.
Has anyone else had the same problem with BT

Thanks

Well, if your price isn't going up you can't cancel the contract.

It will be going up
Broadband increase plus anytime call's ,plus caller Id which I currently receive free

I would love to sign up to Plusnet tomorrow with the Current Topcashback and Plusnet
reduced monthly rental offers then supply my MAC code later.
I doubt however that Plusnet will keep such an arrangement in limbo until BT decide
to get there act together and send out notifications.
According to there site the notifications could be in September or even October, knowing
my luck it will be the end of October before I get official e-mail/letter.
Can't see Plusnet waiting possibly as long as that to complete the order.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Well, if your price isn't going up you can't cancel the contract.

Unless it involves a restart of the minimum term.

Hoping someone here can clarify something.

I called BT to find out when I would get my final bill and I was told it would be 2 weeks after my switch date and that I would be charged for another 30 days. I asked why and he said when the switch happens that is considered the notice. I said to him I told you I was leaving Monday though when I requested the MAC code and said is that not notice? He then backtracked and said yes it was but tried to shift be off the phone. Luckily I now record all my calls with BT but I would like to know if I'm going to find myself in a fight over this one.

An interesting report here.

Note that this is the whole BT group, BTR, BTW, OR, Plusnet etc. (Shares can only be purchased for BT Group)

As it relates to this thread, moving from BT to Plusnet is just committing yourself to another BT Group affiliate for another 18 months.

Those accountants working for the BT Group are canny people........and "retention" obviously has a different meaning to them.

Edited by deleted (Sat 30-Aug-14 12:09:28)

In reply to a post by dieselglider:

This is a quote from a BT forum Mod, on question I had asked on the BT community forum, earlier this year;

"the minimum call commitment was removed from Line Rental Saver on 22nd March 2013."

Presumably on new contracts from that date onwards.

It seems there was still a minimum call spend on Caller Display.

From Internet Archive, May 2013 - "BT Privacy at Home with Free Caller Display. A minimum call commitment of 2 calls per month is associated with this product. Calls can be chargeable or those included with your chosen call plan. A charge of £2 applies in each month that you do not make the required number of calls."

BT Customer Services have confirmed that this commitment was removed on 4 Jan 2014.

Edited by B31 (Sat 30-Aug-14 12:03:15)

It was removed when they took off BT Privacy and changed it to be chargeable with the option to have it free if you committed for 12 months.

Well leaving is going well... I've just been billed for next months service and nobody can explain why, nor can they generate my final bill even though it's marked on my account as leaving without termination charges.

I asked to speak to a manager but of course none available, promised a call back but of course that hasn't happened. 5 days until the money comes out so 4 days to sort it out I guess. Can't cancel direct debit otherwise it'll just cause havoc on my credit rating.

But you can get the money back using the Direct Debit guarantee.

Cheers for this.

I spoke to their twitter team and they said my contract was over, seemed confused and cancelled the direct debit on their side. Was told I'd now get final bill in 40 days but can't do it now as account is open for "Broadband Billing"

Thing is, my broadband doesn't switch over till tuesday, I know this, the post office knows this, my IP address even says it's still a BT one but they flat out disagree and say they're not providing my broadband.

It's a bit messy to be honest but I'll just leave it, see what happens Wednesday when the money should be taken and if it isn't... wait some more.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

But you can get the money back using the Direct Debit guarantee.

True you can..

But its its owned money will still have the same result as cancelling it before funds are taken.