|
|
AS reported on PUG it looks like there are some more changes in store.
http://usergroup.plus.net/newsarchive.php
Should be "interesting" next week.
edit: spelling
Steve
Edited by adslp (Fri 25-Aug-06 16:39:31)
|
|
|
|
"Voice of the Customer" - Who writes this stuff?
|
|
|
I wish Plusnet well, and maybe the restructuring will have the desired effect, but as I read that link I'm afraid the phrase "smoke and mirrors" came to mind...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington |
|
Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
|
|
|
I'm sure there will be quite a few comments on the VotC.
Good or bad it makes you wonder why Plusnet never seem to see the probable reaction when they name things in this way.
Steve
|
|
|
But I see that at least they're dropping the "Ask a Question" and going back to "Raise a Ticket". That has to be a point in their favour 
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington |
|
|
"One thing we have been able to find out is that as part of the shake up we will be waving farewell to the familiar Comms Team - and welcoming a new, bigger, team called the "Voice of the Customer" (VotC for short.)"
It might be called something different but will they function any differently?
I did say I had become a cynic in relation to PN and hence why I think that this announcement is another one of the regular quarterly announcements in the hope to pacify a few more, for a few more months with more promises of improvements.
|
|
|
|
Same here.
"Voice of the Customer"? What carp! I'm not interested in them building newer and bigger propaganda departments, so they can churn out ever more tortuous versions of "mea culpa", and "we're getting there".
I just want them to get back to some grass-roots stuff, like having sound technical staff who can actually resolve things, and the opportunity to speak to an actual human being, instead of being forever condemned to the dire portal and the ticketing wizard, even when you have the most trivial question.
T.
|
|
|
|
It all means the same thing, so I can't see how it's a point in their favour, just more bureaucratic red tape and PR.
|
|
|
Well, a lot of people complained about the "Ask a Question" thing, and now Plusnet show signs of listening and reverting to the original, they still get slated... some people are never satisfied.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley EddingtonEdited by billford (Fri 25-Aug-06 17:06:30)
|
|
|
|
"It might be called something different but will they function any differently?" - Answers on a postcard not required.
|
|
|
|
I think the problem is, it's cosmetic.
I must admit, I prefer "ticket" to "question", but to be honest, I don't really care if they want to call it "sausages": it doesn't affect the quality of service I get, which is the most important part.
I think this unfortunately typifies the Plusnet approach, at the moment. They keep playing around with words, instead of addressing the core problem.
T.
|
|
|
|
Wildmind's article says: "we have learnt that a major top-down re-structuring of the company is to take place with effect from Monday next week."
The restructuring of the comms/cs function would surely not be classified as a top-down restructuring. Is it too much to hope that the CEO has fallen on his sword at last? If Strafford is out, PlusNet have a chance.
Simon
|
|
|
Couldn't Lee Stafford just go on gardening leave for 6 months and then we'll see if that makes a difference?
If after 6 months nothing has changed then we know that the problem is ingrained in Plus.net and no change at the top will bring results..
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future" 
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard 
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
|
Agreed. What a pretentious title. While I hope it succeeds I am not going to hold my breath. Change of title but all the same names including the master of PN spin.
Sounds like a change of seats exercise - no departures and new blood coming in so far then.
|
|
|
|
Was it the line "victim of the success of PlusNet" that made you think that Billford?
|
|
|
|
Dammit, a PlusNet rep, formerly of this parish, just PM'd me to give me the bad news: Strafford isn't going anywhere. Some other luckless director-cum-scapegoat is apparently due to carry the can.
Simon
|
|
|
That caused a raised eyebrow, I'll admit
But it was just the general tone of the item. I could be wrong of course, as could all the other critics in this thread. We'll get a better idea next week when the details are revealed, and in the weeks and months after that when the results of any changes become manifest for all to see.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington |
|
|
|
I know what you mean about the general tone, it was like painted as if it was a good thing, like it's part of the plan, not like its something needed doing because the situation is so damn bleak.
Plusnet can paint a picture of roses, for anything I reckon. I wonder if they're gonna be having a staff party to celebrate the "from the top down restructuring"? If its because Mr head honcho is leaving I'll personally send a mega sized bag of party poppers to sheffield!
|
|
|
|
Poster: pr100 wrote;
Dammit, a PlusNet rep, formerly of this parish, just PM'd me to give me the bad news: Strafford isn't going anywhere. Some other luckless director-cum-scapegoat is apparently due to carry the can.
Simon
--------------------------------------------
Is it Alistair Wyse their so called Technical Director? let's face it he's ultimately responsible for the CSC group, and all things technical and as 99.9% of all failures over the months have come from that area then I dont suppose it could just be him carrying the can at last. Strafford and Wyse both need to go if they are to survive and take with them the glory title boys who seem to come up with a new name every other week.
What is it next guys "Customers United Network Team Service".
Powerdroid
|
|
|
> I must admit, I prefer "ticket" to "question"
The "Ask a Question" thing confused me when I was trying to find out how to see ticket statuses on the portal.. It's a good change!
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
> "Voice of the Customer" - Who writes this stuff?
That was my reaction too when I first heard that term... But in the end what they're called doesn't matter as much as whether they can do an effective job.. If the change indicates a change in culture, etc. then they can be called whatever they like as far as I'm concerned (although something one can actually related to this function is always better :-p)
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
I wonder if that's a play on the ventriloquist and its relationship with the dummy then?
Given that they are our "Voice of the customer", I'll leave it up to you to think which one of the two in the above relationship the customer is..
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
|
Indeed it is a good change, but one that wouldn't have been necessary in the first place, if they hadn't messed around with something that was working, and everybody understood.
Now we've had an awful lot of debate, not to mention confusion for some customers and visitors - only to end up back where we started. Hardly an achievement!
It basically seems as if everything is driven by marketing - they change something because someone has told them it sounds better - not because it works better.
T.
|
|
|
well i would like to say congratulations to the new member of staff. In my eyes he is the ideal candidate
|
|
|
the figure i have been quoted is 2 weeks and you should see the changes.
I truly believe this is their last attempt to put things right and you know what, i think they will.
They have had their downfalls, as long as the spin is kept away and actions are done, i think they are on a winner.
However they have a lot to do, so i welcome the beginning of
"Back to the Plusnet..... We once Knew!"
|
|
|
Let me guess ........PCSNI?
|
|
|
Sounds suspiciously like New Labour doesn't it?
Plus.net.. the New Labour of ISPs...
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
nope wait for the announcement :-)
Edited by soundsystem (Fri 25-Aug-06 22:07:02)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to:
Sounds suspiciously like New Labour doesn't it?
The announcement said:
...and one other new recruit
Maybe you're getting John Prescott to add a bit of punch to the operation
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington
|
|
|
It's Simon go on admit it
Steve
|
|
|
i am glad i have sparked so much speculation
They are truly trying to sort the problems out, this is just the start.
Nope i am not a reformed Plusnet fan, i just want them to sort things out
|
|
|
Simon as in PR100?
as Kylie sang
"I should be so Lucky, Lucky, Lucky" :-)
|
|
|
I hate to blunt your enthusiasm but they have been trying to sort the problems out for a year or more? Isn't that what they brought Ian Wild back for months ago and drafted Stewart Norriss in before that?
Edited by lodge (Fri 25-Aug-06 22:17:12)
|
|
|
lets face it the only usable service (and generally excellent at that) has come from the Comms team.... so if its expanded then all the better... as long as its not diluted.
Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Aug-06 22:19:18)
|
|
|
hi
it aint enthusiasm, isaid a few weeks ago i would give them the benefit of the doubt for 3 months. So far they are delivering.
Admittedly they have messed up, yes and i have been more than vocal, however when you have seen how low they have got (been an ex customer) and then seeing them pick themselves up and try to put things right. That is refreshing.
I aint a plusnet fan, even when with them, but i am glad they realise they have gone wrong.
Mind you in 10 weeks time, i could always go back and say i told you so to them :-)
give them a chance, let them try and make amends, if they dont, feel free to slate them
|
|
|
In reply to:
They are truly trying to sort the problems out, this is just the start.
Maybe, but changing a perfectly logical name for one of their teams- Communications Team- to "Voice of the Customer", will offer little confidence, in my opinion, that they're focussing on service delivery as opposed to cosmetic appearance.
|
|
|
imho whats the point in a name?
Comms team is nothing unless it does what it says, ie comms
VOTC imho is a corny one, but straight away it shows to me they are listening to the customer. (although they could have called it Pink Trainers for all i care)
With the right support, tools and backing off their suppliersm this will cut down on their workload. So everyone benefits.
You are quite right, there are still gonna be sceptics, no matter what they do.... I for am an also sceptical, but call it gut instinct, i can just feel somethings different... maybe its in the vodka :-)
But above all Actions speak louder than words, so we will see
|
|
|
In reply to:
So far they are delivering.
What have they actually delivered, as opposed to promising to deliver?
Serious question, I'm not trolling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington
|
|
|
Hi Bill
more communication for a start, however personnaly i feel they should be doing it on here and also their own forums instead of the puggers.
If they would open the Pug forum up with a username of guest and guest like the portal that would satisfy me.
I speak to a few of the guys from Plusnet and PUG via Plusnetter.co.uk and tbh i enjoy it. I aint silenced, i can say what i want, as long as it is constructive.
Deliveries so far:
1) more openess although behind a closed forum
2) the chance for us to ask questions
3) Refunds on the LLU messups
4) Free dialup (although this was minimum they could have done)
5) spending more on their infilstructure for resiliency
6) openeness (for me personnally) by listening
hope that helps
|
|
|
How can you say they are communicating more and in the same breath admit that they're not doing it on their own forums and on here.
As for a guest password on the PUG forums, isn't that up to the PUG, not Plusnet?
|
|
|
With respect Ged I thinks a lot of IW`s marketing spin has got to you  . He`s a master at it, I say actions speak louder that words. The words we have heard is "It takes time to....", suggests nothing is going to happen for sometime. Recruiting and training new csc people takes time. There appears to be a reluctance to invest in the BB side of the business, in favour of the Software Development, WLR areas.
Apart from Sky, TT, Orange etc., taking a large part of PN`s target customer base, bear in mind when the Ofcom restrictions on BTW`s pricing is reduced I feel sure BTW will reduce prices to compete with LLU.
I find it amusing that PN lambasted BTW for the roll out of an "untested" dslmax product, then migrated customers to an even less robust LLU product . At least with dslmax you can revert to a lower more stable package with little disruption.
So let`s hope PN prove me wrong, then again how long is a reasonable time before improvements should be obvious. In my mind improvements do not mean renaming "questions" back to tickets, or changing a name to "Voice of the Customer" that is just more spin.
|
|
|
"How can you say they are communicating more and in the same breath admit that they're not doing it on their own forums and on here. "
because 2 months ago they wouldnt even communicate properly on the pug ones.
If they did it on here and their own they would spread it 3 times as far. (although that was a personal opinion)
I regularly speak to them now (more for a chat and to catch up on things) so i guess i am lucky in that respect. They have more scope and hopefully that will come.
"As for a guest password on the PUG forums, isn't that up to the PUG, not Plusnet? "
probably, but the PUG obviously have chosen to blacnk some of us by doing this. IMHO if PUG were to abandon the IP only from Plusnet to register, this would show that they have total dedication to the majority. Howevr i would think they have done this to stop any so called abuse from us non Plusnet customers. (alledgely of course)
|
|
|
> > 1) more openess although behind a closed forum
Something of an oxymoron there, I feel...
2) the chance for us to ask questions
You've always been able to ask questions, what about the answers?
3) Refunds on the LLU messups
Have any actually been paid, and have all those entitled to refunds been informed?
4) Free dialup (although this was minimum they could have done)
OK, but most ISPs supply that as standard, I believe
5) spending more on their infilstructure for resiliency
Opinions differed on the value of that, but I'll accept it as I'm not qualified to judge.
6) openeness (for me personnally) by listening
OK, you're one, 799,999 to go
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington
|
|
|
As an aside, it's also a bit presumptuous for them to style themselves the 'Voice of the Customer'
|
|
|
"With respect Ged I thinks a lot of IW`s marketing spin has got to you . He`s a master at it, I say actions speak louder that words. The words we have heard is "It takes time to....", suggests nothing is going to happen for sometime. Recruiting and training new csc people takes time. There appears to be a reluctance to invest in the BB side of the business, in favour of the Software Development, WLR areas. "
Hi wingco u synic you..... If it turns out to be bull, then i will hold my hands up and say i am a sucker. I would like to think i aint been used.... time will tell.
"Apart from Sky, TT, Orange etc., taking a large part of PN`s target customer base, bear in mind when the Ofcom restrictions on BTW`s pricing is reduced I feel sure BTW will reduce prices to compete with LLU. "
Of course BT will reduce prices, but on the other hand what if BT offer
|
|
|
fair comments Bill
either they will pull it off or they will sink, this i believe is their last chance, however i stand by my time table of giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Obviously if there is anything to the detriment of the customer forthcoming i will reraise my concerns :-)
|
|
|
In reply to:
"Voice of the Customer" yep i though was corny as well, but no matter what wingco, i still like you :-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I hope they pull it off as well, though really for the sake of the customers- I don't give a toss one way or the other about the company itself.
Interesting few months ahead, I feel...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington |
|
|
"for the sake of the customers"
you said it all Bill, however i feel concerned for the staff as well, some of them are great!
|
|
|
Well, yeah, OK
I don't know all the PN CS staff, but I can think of a couple who would have no trouble at all getting a post with another ISP!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington |
|
|
at the end of the day, customers are important, but being an employer myself, i value my staff. IMHO the staff i have dealt with are doing the best they can with blunt tools.
without customers and staff you are no one
|
|
|
In reply to:
...more communication for a start....
On a positive note, I think that some of the technical input, particularly from Simon Day has been helpful to communications.
On a negative note, there have been several promises of communication updates ("Customer Support Centre Update; "LLU fault refunds"), that either haven't happened or happened late.
It doesn't inspire confidence, in my opinion, when expectations are repeatedly set and not then fulfilled, and this is an issue where Plusnet have been previously criticised, which I think should be quite easy to sort, and should have been sorted by now.
|
|
|
|
"Some other luckless director-cum-scapegoat is apparently due to carry the can."
If it is from the top down, then it has to be the Chief Operating Officer.
TT
|
|
|
|
Can anyone doubt for a moment that the PUG forum is controlled by PlusNet?
Simon
|
|
|
|
It's worse than presumptuous - it isn't true and could never be true. They are the Voice of PlusNet, no more and no less.
In theory, the PUG should be the Voice of the Customers - but they are too cosy with PN to be trusted to wear that badge.
So, that leaves Ged.
Simon
|
|
|
"Voice of the Customer" different name, same old chit?
I hope not, good luck
|
|
|
In reply to:
Voice of the Customer" - Who writes this stuff?
The @rse of the Marketing Director it would seem. Oh dear, oh dear. 
|
|
|
Is feckless and luckless the same meaning?
|
|
|
Simon, i truly am not controlled by Plusnet.
The pug should be truly independant, and to prove it like i have stated, open up the forums to the public!
|
|
|
... and let the great unwashed pollute the waters? I think not...
The PUG run pretty much a tight ship at the moment and I don't see them relinquishing control that easily...
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
|
I know that... Hence you are nominated (by an ex-customer) to be the Voice of the Customers.
Simon
|
|
|
if they want to convince the doubters they have no choice i feel
|
|
|
Simon if Plusnet truly wanted a votc they would ask me, yourself and rsharma and a few others, to join and be apart of it , but hey pigs can fly
At least i am in the loop to a degree, but still more can be done.
|
|
|
I think that there is much more at stake and don't believe that they would change it just because some people believe that they have to in order to pass some sort of test.
They've seen what can happen to a forum if things get out of hand, I certainly don't see them trying to go the way of self destruction (they can leave all that to Plus.net who seem to be doing a mighty fine job of that on their own )
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
hi caesar
Plusnet have no choice but to change if they want to survive. They have valid points re criticism, however if presented logically and contsructively they will take it on board.
This is ther last chance to sort things, they cannot survive unless they reverse where they went wrong. FACT
If we as users, customers, ex customers can help them out, then personnally i am happy to do that.
|
|
|
|
Illogical, Spock. VOTEC maybe.
Simon
|
|
|
I thought we were still talking about the PUG opening it up its doors??
Anyway, it may be the case that the powers that be are now no longer looking at running a successful ISP but are courting possible suitors in order to take it over.
Given the market conditions of the ADSL market as a whole it doesn't sound as far fetched as it might sound like.
They can't compete with the Sky and TT's of this world and I am not sure if the marketplace hasn't already reached saturation point a bit like the mobile phone market now. It used to be case in the latter that a mobile phone network would try to entice people to join their network but nowadays they are spedning a fair bit of their budget trying convince their subscribers *NOT* to leave hence all the loyalty stuff.
I can see the ADSL market going the same way, especially now that OFCOM are going to push MACs as compulsory.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
if PUG opned the forums to non plusnet members, that would show me they were not Plusnet contolled. If people wanted to slate them or cause trouble they could always delete their posts.
If they do that i will be more than happy
|
|
|
|
This may be obvious but why demand PUG open their forum to others? It is a private club and ADSLG is a public one. Why does anyone need to dilute the customers away from here and play into the hands of PN by diverting traffic from here into their control into PUG or PN Portal?
PS: I have no interest or time to join any usergroup to help customers and although I find it flattering that you would consider putting my name forward I will respectfully bow out,
|
|
|
|
"Anyway, it may be the case that the powers that be are now no longer looking at running a successful ISP but are courting possible suitors in order to take it over."
A share price drop of 75% over the past few months and still no takers.
Bleak.
|
|
|
You're forgetting that the PUG is run by volunteers who don't have time to check the forums every single minute of every day in order to Police them.
From what I understand, the nature of any forum is that it is meant to bring like minded people to it so that they can discuss matters which would concern them and also people who are in the same boat.
By opening up the forum to anyone you could introduce an element where they have nothing to give but take up a lot of time and resources of the members involved.
I'm thinking along the lines of a Special Interest Group (SIG) and I think that is what the PUG are trying to make themselves in to.
So okay, hypothetically the PUG open up their "borders" in pretty much the same way that the Labour government has allowed the inhabitants of recently introduced new European countries to come here and work, what happens next?
Do the new members add any value to the SIG or do they cause lots of bickering and petty arguing?
I'm not saying that all non customers would be out to cause trouble but judging by what's gone on here in this forum I would say that there are a few who seem to be relishing the opportunity of speading their thoughts even if it isn't really appreciated in any shape or form.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
It's still early days yet.. maybe some venture capitalist is waiting for when the prices hit rock bottom then goes for the jugular??
Plus.net only has to keep producing negative news for this downward trend to continue to the point where it really is in serious trouble.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
"This may be obvious but why demand PUG open their forum to others? It is a private club and ADSLG is a public one. Why does anyone need to dilute the customers away from here and play into the hands of PN by diverting traffic from here into their control into PUG or PN Portal? "
ADSLG is one of the most respected forums on the net. Plusnet have chosen to remove themselves from here. This has got to have had an adverse effect on their popularity / sign up mechanisms. People come here for help etc, to review their prospective ISP's etc. Plusnet decided to leave here because of the negative criticism etc, howevr they should return and put thigns behind them.
As for the PUG yes it is a closed ship, however as a prospective customer, i cannot see on their site the resolve to put things right. I can however see the things that are wrong. If they opened their doors, they would be showing they have nothing to hide. Rather than signing up to Plusnet and then finding the problems out afterwards.
"although I find it flattering that you would consider putting my name forward"
personnaly i have always valued your input, you have always shown to be level headed, responsible, and reasonable. Why should i not nominate you? You are a credit to these forums as your help is genuine.
|
|
|
|
Again, too many nice words about me but I can't take credit for them except for:
"your help is genuine"
Because it really is.
|
|
|
|
"to the point where it really is in serious trouble." - PlusNet's customer growth figures suggest that point has arrived.
|
|
|
all i can say is
a spade is a spade
if i didnt like you or didnt value you i would tell you
edit: effects of alcohol
Edited by soundsystem (Sat 26-Aug-06 01:29:25)
|
|
|
> I can see the ADSL market going the same way, especially now that OFCOM are going to push MACs as compulsory.
I don't see how this will affect PN... If you have a contractual commitment to pay them for something they can simply sue you/send in the debt colllectors. Ok so it means more hassle.. but still. Ofcom mandating MACs is a very unfortunate thing in principle of freedom of commerce but it has to be done.
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
Voice of the Customer...are these people for real?
The actual " Voice of the Customer " is probably best heard swearing at a telephone that goes through a myriad of menu's and sub-menu's for an hour or more, only for the " customer " to get disconnected.
Until they get this mess sorted, they can call their lousy service anything they like, it will not improve matters one jot.
Why don't these people get sat down in customer services and help reduce the back logs of phone calls instead of having their ever so frequent head banging meetings that achieve SFA to help their customers.
I am soon going abroad for 3 weeks and if things havn't changed dramatically for the better on my return, I am off to pastures green to an ISP where a phone call is answered in 3 or 4 rings, without the need for [censored] titles.
|
|
|
> Voice of the Customer...are these people for real?
I think PN made a huge mistake in picking this name because as it has been said it 'sounds' so made up. It's perfect for an internal name for such a team to help focus attention on customers, and I would suggest everyone considers it as such and just calls it VoTC without thinking anything else in public.
Whilst I think the name was a mistake I am more interested to see the outcome.. they could be called Little Red Riding Hood and the Seven Dwarves.. it's whether they will do their job well that counts... Let's not let the name divert attention from the real issue which they are (supposedly) trying to address.
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
i would have just left it as VoTc like you say, as it sounds so corny.
As long as the team produces the results tho however this should not be an issue. The quoted time frame for this turn around is "within 2 weeks" which can only be a good thing for present and prospective customers.
So 14 days as from bank holiday monday we can pass comment
edited: spelling
Edited by soundsystem (Sat 26-Aug-06 01:38:03)
|
|
|
|
I don't see how this will affect PN... If you have a contractual commitment to pay them for something they can simply sue you/send in the debt colllectors.
-----
Outgoing customers who contest the amount owed will be delighted to let PN do the legwork to prove that it is a legitimate debt. That's a complete turnaround of the current scenario which puts the onus on David to take Goliath to court -- and as PlusNet will be all too well aware, only a tiny minority of those who feel that they have been over-charged ever bother to do so.
The 5-year tie-in via deferred payments for activation/modems is also being stopped by Ofcom. You only have to see what proportion of PN's T&Cs is devoted to the "free" modem offer to realise that it's a vital plank of their business strategy.... which in a nutshell is "Get 'Em In and Lock 'Em Up".
I'm certain that PN will be very substantially affected by the proposed new regulations.
Simon
|
|
|
> Outgoing customers who contest the amount owed will be delighted to let PN do the legwork
> to prove that it is a legitimate debt.
Ok... fair enough.. it will have some impact.
> That's a complete turnaround of the current scenario which puts the onus on David to take
> Goliath to court
Taking large companies to court is really not difficult.. I appreciate you've said before this is the perception and maybe that's something we need to address on the main site... i.e. internal complaint, ADR systems, court, etc.
> only a tiny minority of those who feel that they have been over-charged ever bother to do so.
Many people are all talk until it comes to the first solicitors letter at which point the buckle and do anything they are asked of including paying money.. I'm not sure if it's going to quite be as "I want my day in court" as you suggest... but yes it may change a bit. The ADR process should be even simpler in some ways. ISPA is pushing its members quite hard to get onto CISAS if they're not already members of OTELO..
> The 5-year tie-in via deferred payments for activation/modems is also being stopped by Ofcom.
I was discussing the MAC issue really.. I'm in two minds about defereed payments.. effectively what PN are saying is "we'll help you spready the setup cost".. but then again if this is compared to a bank loan you should be able to change provider and transfer the loan portion to them.. just like moving a mortgage
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
" So 14 days as from bank holiday monday we can pass comment "
I will not be holding my breath, presuming that you refer to this next Bank Holiday Monday (28/08/2006) of course...
|
|
|
|
You are right in that most people will pay up after being sent letter upon letter by a debt collection agency or threats of legal action rather than argue or defend a small claim irrespective of merit.
PR100 is also right in that the biggest difference will be the ability to migrate away first instead of having to argue while being unhappy with their ISP. Once they are on a new connection with a new ISP people can have a working Internet connection and deal with any outstanding charge claims with a cooler mind rather than being forced to pay just to move since it is tantamount to blackmail on the current system.
I do think that the idea for complaint resolution and steps should be posted on the front page to help all customers and there should be a sticky in this forum too with detailed steps about PN's complaint handling procedures and external means of achieving resolution. I would be happy to write one if you wanted me to do so but I think you are more than capable of doing the same if you are so inclined or have time.
|
|
|
> I do think that the idea for complaint resolution and steps should be posted on the front page to help all customers
Mostly written already
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
Sounds to me like some radical polittical party "Voice of the people"
|
|
|
|
On no lets have at least one forum that the attack mob can't ruin. Why in Gods name would you want non users on a users forum, makes no sense at all?
|
|
|
> Sounds to me like some radical polittical party "Voice of the people"
Well I guess I'm off the peerages list then
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
Oh I don't know might be a good idea........ although to keep it fair how about they reciprocate and post the information necessary to allow non customers and all and sundry access to the Zen, Freedom To Surf and IDnet customer forums?
|
|
|
In reply to:
Why in Gods name would you want non users on a users forum, makes no sense at all?
I can see your point, but those non-users might be potential customers- if you only allow them to see the BBS's that allow negative posts, they will probably stay as non-customers.
It's a difficult point... maybe non-users could be granted read privileges only, except for one "Visitors" forum/section? Don't know if you can apply rights on an IP basis like that though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley EddingtonEdited by billford (Sat 26-Aug-06 11:59:01)
|
|
|
In reply to:
the Zen, Freedom To Surf and IDnet customer forums?
Can't speak for the others, but the IDNet BBS is open to anybody who wants to register.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley EddingtonEdited by billford (Sat 26-Aug-06 12:11:11)
|
|
|
sure Zen is to
____________________________________________
ZeN 8000 Pro Stable and No Traffic Management
Hosting my sites at - http://www.cn-hosting.co.uk
|
|
|
|
Actually quite interesting reading...... and should I decide to change providers could well be enough to sway my decision, but assuming one exists and which would be the most telling: I could not find one along the lines of "IDnet" customer support.
|
|
|
There isn't a support forum for IDNet that's actually run by the company, but the unofficial one is hosted on their servers and they have a presence there- you'll see some posts on there from "simon", he's a co-owner of the company and handles most of the CS.
They don't have a separate CS department- for one thing they're not yet big enough in the non-business area, and for another not much ever goes wrong
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington |
|
|
|
"for one thing they're not yet big enough in the non-business area, "
Interesting statement which goes a long way to explaining why nothing much goes wrong.Are you aware if this is how they plan to stay; or do you see current circumstances forcing them to enter the general market?
|
|
|
In reply to:
Well I guess I'm off the peerages list then
Don't lose heart ... it all depends on how much you'd like to "loan" them.
IDNet Broadband Home Max
One of the lucky ones
Sync: 8128kb/s MSR: 8128kb/s FTR: 5689kb/s
Noise Margin: 15.5dB (DS) 27.0dB (US)
Attenuation: 19.0dB (DS) 7.5dB (US)
Click for Speedtest result
|
|
|
|
Depends on how much money you have and how much you are willing to "loan". It's money that talks not ability or suitability.
|
|
|
In reply to:
Are you aware if this is how they plan to stay; or do you see current circumstances forcing them to enter the general market?
I can do no more than guess about that- I'm not privy to their long-term business strategy...
But I think their main target is business use, and domestic users provide a useful top-up when the business traffic tails off out of office hours. That's not to say that private users class as second rate in any way- they are concerned about reputation and, for example, if someone has a bad experience as a private user they may well be reluctant to use or recommend the same company for business purposes.
I suspect they'll stay as a niche supplier in the domestic market- not too big, towards the expensive end but providing top-rate service. Aimed at the "discerning user", in other words
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley EddingtonEdited by billford (Sat 26-Aug-06 14:13:15)
|
|
|
|
Hi , Plusnet cant run a business class service and i dont see that changing.
bs0d.
|
|
|
|
"Plus.net only has to keep producing negative news for this downward trend to continue to the point where it really is in serious trouble."
I think the stock has already bottomed out when they went below
|
|
|
|
"Why in Gods name would you want non users on a users forum, makes no sense at all?"
So they'll see what kind of service the company delivers and sign up?
TT
|
|
|
.. but they can already do that with the Plus.net, F9 and FOL forums with the guest logins.. I would have thought that these forums would have been better candidates for letting users see how the ISP is run?
It seems that only Plus.net now allows you to login using guest access as the old username of "testdrive" and the password "thekeys" no longer works for FOL or F9 (can't remember which one it was supposed to work with).
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
well all the juicy pro-active debates are locked down on the PUG site, on Plusnet's own forums the majority of posts are of dissatisfaction.
It would appear that the PUG site is been used for major announcements to generate useful discussion.
|
|
|
Most of the posts on the PUG site are from dissatisfied customers too.
|
|
|
thats the ones you can see, for some strange reason all the we are gonna put it right / get involved type threads are locked down
If a potential customer views said posts, but sees no resolute to put things right, that has to be off putting.
|
|
|
"It's our party and I'll invite you if I want to.." springs to mind!
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
i wasn't - asked but was refused :-(
|
|
|
In my personal opinion, I think that you should stand down from what looks like to be some sort of personal crusade as it seems like both the PUG and Plus.net aren't going to bend over backwards just so that you could have something to shout about from the rooftops.
I'm sure that the 2 groups mentioned above know what they are doing and if they feel that they don't want your advice then you should let it be, after all they say that help is only appreciated if the person asked for the help in the first place.
Shoving all these requests and ideas in the direction of the PUG and Plus.net aren't going to gain you any friends..
If after 6 to 12 months Plus.net goes down the tubes then it's their own fault for not taking the right steps to stop the rot, you shouldn't see it as your task (should you choose to accept it) as beign their trouble shooter. I am sure that Plus.net have employed someone to do that pretty much any way..
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yesterday and out of the blue I received a lengthy PM from James Bailey in response to my thread "Observations, conclusions etc" and he claimed that I was free to post his PM on the forum.
I have heard many good things about him and I replied back to him in detail yet I haven't posted his PM on the forum. Call me cynical but I felt that I was being used to publish a message on behalf of PN when they had agreed not to post here. Why would I receive such a detailed response if this was not the case and also because the PM was rather too structured for my liking? I might be doing a discredit to James here but, like I said, I am cynical and I hate being used.
|
|
|
I also had a PM from Ian Wild answering some queries I raised about interleaving and LLU. No indication one way or the other about publishing it, but I also felt that maybe I was being used as a channel so I decided not to bring it up in the forum here.
Especially as, like you I believe (? not sure), I don't even have Plusnet as my ISP (though I do have an email account with Metronet).
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley EddingtonEdited by billford (Sun 27-Aug-06 00:38:31)
|
|
|
Hi rsharma, i would say thats gotta be your call.
Everything i was told i used discretion and reported most of it. I am sure i was not used to say things as i could have let the cat out of the bag over quite a few things before they were officially announced :-)
Do what you feel is right.
|
|
|
|
Yup, I am no longer with PN and got out just in time in Feb 06.
|
|
|
That's about the same time I quit MetroNet
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington |
|
|
|
The PM didn't include any future announcements but rather a response and defense to some criticisms and observations. I am sure he is a stand-up type of guy but to me it "seemed" a little too desperate and requesting it to be published, because I was told twice that I could publish it if I wanted to even though I never asked permission to do so. I could be very wrong. We'll see.
|
|
|
|
>It would appear that the PUG site is been used for major announcements to generate useful discussion.<
Yes and that's the very reason It should not be opened to the attack, attack mob.
|
|
|
|
Are your posts constructive in that forum? Do they not criticise PN in the same way that (ex)customers do here? For a person who doesn't much like this forum you seem to post on a frequent basis here.
|
|
|
Hi George, if a guest cant post how can he attack?
|
|
|
|
I don't think there is any doubt that PN are trying to use some of the regular posters here to communicate on their behalf. What other justification could there be for Ian Wild and James Bailey sending a concerted wave of PMs to ex-customers? I know of at least six who have received such messages in the past few days and it can only be a planned propaganda exercise.
Some of the points raised in their PMs may well be worth discussing but you are right to object to what looks like an attempt to use you, and others, as messenger boys.
If PlusNet want to say something here then they should come and say it - and stop behaving like children.
Simon
|
|
|
What is this attack, attack mob?
Is this your way of trolling prehaps?
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Nice one.
|
|
|
I reckon that Plus.net are regretting about pulling out from here but there isn't any way that they can come back on here without looking like they've made a U turn. It seems that their "let's throw a stink bomb in this forum before running out of the room" is back-firing because a lot of good discussions have come up, all without the usual trolling debate I hasten to add yet Plus.net aren't able to put their point across and the PUG don't seem to have the time to do so themselves.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
|
My view has remained that I'm unconcerned whether they post or not, because their status/importance to an open forum should be regarded equal to other members, and participation is voluntary.
In my opinion, they over-estimated their importance to this forum (evidenced by the outburst of their Marketing Director), with the inevitable result that the forum continues to thrive whilst they have disenfranchised themselves from putting their perspective.
The trouble, in my opinion, with making big gestures like Plusnet did, is that it often leads to you unnecessarily "painting yourself in to a corner".
|
|
|
<Quote>
The trouble, in my opinion, with making big gestures like Plusnet did, is that it often leads to you unnecessarily "painting yourself in to a corner".
</Quote>
<Nods enthusiastically>
I couldn't agree more with your last comment and the reply in general..
No single man or woman is more important in this forum..
</nod enthusiastically >
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
In reply to:
but there isn't any way that they can come back on here without looking like they've made a U turn
Oh, I don't know. They did it before with the usual Plus-spin about how things had changed here.
They'll be back, don't worry.
|
|
|
Well, Andrew says that the invitation to post on here is still open so now it looks like a Mexican stand-off to see who blinks first.
Personally I don't think that many members here really give a damn if Plus.net post here or not..
It could be a good poll to start..
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
"No single man or woman is more important in this forum.. "
you are forgetting "Don" best moderator in the world :-)
|
|
|
Ah yes, God rest his soul!..
I suppose the AG forum moderators should all be turned in to deities forthwith!
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
|
"I would have thought that these forums would have been better candidates for letting users see how the ISP is run?"
I've spent a lot of time in discussion forums of various flavours and the importance of what is not said gets my attention as much as what is said. There have been a lot of direct questions asked of PN and there has been scant evidence of PN sitting down and actually answering them. There has been much evasion, counter-evasion and ad hominem attacks on those that have asked the direct questions.
Once upon a time AG was a crucible where folks who had problems with PN's service burned away their issues until a solution was found. All this happened within minutes/hours of the original post. Most of the time was taken in penning a response, which didn't need thought as the response was obvious. They did the *right thing* time and time again.
I've come to the conclusion that PN are engaged in campaigns to obfuscate options open to customers who want to leave the service, to intimidate dissenters and control the amount of negativity in forums which may soon reverse PN's viral marketing strategy.
Most people don't really want to know how an ISP is run. They don't want to know about future plans. They trust that the service they buy is well run and that they have scalable plans for the future. They want answers to questions. They want PN to do the *right thing* without the need to get them in a headlock. People *need* to see those pertinent questions addressed.
If I was an investor I would be extremely worried about my investment right now. The viral marketing strategy has all but gone and the ideas to reverse the trend are woefully flawed. They are going to have to spend big money on advertising to survive.
TT
|
|
|
I don't think that any amount of money is going to help given that both Sky and TT have been saying that they are happy to make losses for the first couple of years in order to gain a strong foothold on the ADSL market.
I mean, how can compete with the big boys and their marketing dollars?
It seems that Plus.net are now just about treading water and any further problems with their service is going to cause more people to look at migrating elsewhere.
I think I remember reading that the profit margins per base customer isn't that big so I don't know how they are going to survive when times are really tough.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
In reply to:
Ah yes, God rest his soul!..
I think you'll find that Don, ie Sadoldman, is still very much with us
You're thinking of Martin (Icarus), a sad loss.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington
|
|
|
|
"I mean, how can compete with the big boys and their marketing dollars?"
Why do they have to compete with the spend? If they were looking to punch above their weight and get a higher number of subscribers per advertising
|
|
|
Sorry, I got my Don's and Martin's a bit mixed up!..
We could always make Don a diety any way
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
I think that the shareholders would want them to compete with the Big Boys to prove that Plus.net are a very capable "market leader" (their words, not mine!)
We've constantly been told that Plus.net are two years ahead of the competition so now i guess its time to get that talk in to action ..
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Sun 27-Aug-06 17:10:09)
|
|
|
|
"I think I remember reading that the profit margins per base customer isn't that big so I don't know how they are going to survive when times are really tough."
I think one of the more interesting aspects of this forum in particular is the way that people endow other ISP's with some sort of magical quality that makes them immune from the effects that Sky and TT and others are going to have: in that the assumption seems to be that only Plusnet is in danger of going under or customers are not going to leave them in favour of Sky, TT, or any of the other big players about to enter the scene, and is it merely coincidence that AOL have decided to rid themselves of the general consumer market here in the UK
I suspect that a lot of managers of other ISP's are breaking into a cold sweat at the moment.
Rhetorical question: if it was not for financial reasons why did Zen just weeks after saying "that we have no intentions of introducing caps or limit downloads" or words to that effect do that very thing albeit for new customers and left those that were happy to remain on 2Meg connections keep their unlimited status as did a number of ISP's.
So one could possably deduce that given the price of bandwidth those ISP's may not have had a very good "profit margin",and were attempting to batten down the hatches ready for a stormy ride
I personally think that during the next few months after the dust has settled a lot of names will be gone or bought out by bigger companies.
|
|
|
I agree, the broadband market is in for a big shake-up, that's for sure.
In answer to your question, no ISP is safe and there will be casualties for sure.
It''s just that a lot of the other ISPs haven't being pushing the self destruct button as much as Plus.net has.
I personally don't want Plus.net to go out of business because it will be a nightmare for all the subscribers who will have to deal with possible migration without MAC addresses in pretty much the same way that another ISP did recently.
It's been said that once BTw put a cease on your line there ain't going to be much of a chance of getting a MAC address after that.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
|
"We've constantly been told that Plus.net are two years ahead of the competition so now i guess its time to get that talk in to action"
They're stuck in a rut and incapable of getting out of it. All they can do is resell and cream off a little profit until the market changes. When the next stage in the evolution of the UK's access infrastructure (vDSL/WiMAX) is certain, then that is the time for investment and action.
TT
|
|
|
The subscribers that they are looking for probably won't need all those fancy bits and bobs and if Plus.net can make a bit of profit from running a business then good luck to them.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
In reply to:
I reckon that Plus.net are regretting about pulling out from here but there isn't any way that they can come back on here without looking like they've made a U turn.
I hope that if they do come back here, we don't end up an "I told you so" response.
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
lol
more chance of Stevie Wonder seeing his wife naked me thinks :-)
|
|
|
You've been honest with them from the beginning.. your style of moderating this forum is different but it works because you do get a fair amount of traffic on here.
There shouldn't be any of that "I told you so" from anyone..
The crux of the matter is that AG needs Plus.net in bringing fresh blood here and likewise Plus.net needs AG to send them fresh blood in the shape of paying customers.
Sometimes there will be a time when people agree to disagree..
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
> You've been honest with them from the beginning.. your style of moderating this forum is different
> but it works because you do get a fair amount of traffic on here.
It depends what you compare it to.. Newsgroups are far less moderated... official and semi-official forums are far more so. I think we strike a balance.. and ironically by doing so we often upset "both" sides..
> The crux of the matter is that AG needs Plus.net in bringing fresh blood here and likewise Plus.net
> needs AG to send them fresh blood in the shape of paying customers.
Whilst I do value the forums I think most users here are probably under a great misconception of their size to the main site.. From a perspective of the number of visitors, the main site is far greater.. the forums are a great resource but in the end it's a far smaller community that some individuals join for a brief period whilst others spend a lot of time on here. PN's departure from the forums hasn't affected the number of visitors (in fact if anything it went up)..
This isn't to say I don't want PN to take part--I do.. I would like to see users asking for help having that help and for a good conversation, but we won't sacrifice our neutrality for it.
> Sometimes there will be a time when people agree to disagree..
Indeed.
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
"The subscribers that they are looking for probably won't need all those fancy bits and bobs"
Therein lies a lot of PN's problems! They know what subscribers they want, but constantly send out conflicting correspondence. Whether they want the niche or mass market depends on who the target audience of the correspondence is. PN do not have a consistent message nor do they have the products to make the most of the market.
Simplify everything. Sell two accounts. PAYG and another. The other account will have various services bolted onto it. Before pricing the other account conduct a lengthy survey of all existing ISPs to ensure your pricing will make the most of the market.
TT
|
|
|
In reply to:
and ironically by doing so we often upset "both" sides..
That's generally a good indicator that you've got the balance about right.
Equality of dissatisfaction, it's sometimes called
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington
|
|
|
> It depends what you compare it to.. Newsgroups are far less moderated... official and semi-official forums are far more so. I think we strike a balance.. and ironically by doing so we often upset "both" sides..
I like the moderating style on here because contrary to what some people say, you can get heard amongst all of the white noise.
> PN's departure from the forums hasn't affected the number of visitors (in fact if anything it went up)..
I find that very odd!!!
> This isn't to say I don't want PN to take part--I do.. I would like to see users asking for help having that help and for a good conversation, but we won't sacrifice our neutrality for it.
There's no point in being too overbering as that will only alienate people from posting on here.
Everyone has differing opinions and it's good to have a healty debate and I've noticed that the mods have been locking the threads as/when they become out of hand.
>> Sometimes there will be a time when people agree to disagree..
>Indeed.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
As the saying used to go, "no one ever got fired for buying IBM".
Maybe Plus.net should try to get themselves in the same type of position so that they become the name of choice when someone wants an ISP.
I reckon that they went in the wrong direction and should have gone for a more Technical Support based company and used the advertising message similar to this..
We may not offer every option under the sun but what we do offer is backed up by support so that if things do go awry you can be sure that we will try to minimise your downtime as much as possible.
A bit long winded I agree but I'm sure that a copywriter can do better
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own |
|
|
In reply to:
We may not offer every option under the sun but what we do offer is backed up by support so that if things do go awry you can be sure that we will try to minimise your downtime as much as possible.
Or:
We do not use call centres. Support is both free and unlimited. Provided by support professionals who can assist you immediately and all of our business services are backed by a Service Level Guarantee.
But someone else got there first- the rest of it:-
IDNet is committed to providing our customers with services at sustainable prices that ensure professional levels of service.
And I imagine there are others.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley EddingtonEdited by billford (Sun 27-Aug-06 20:01:02)
|
|
|
> I find that very odd!!!
I didn't in the slightest.. It's an unfortunate way to get cheap publicity so more people talk about you.. even negatively.. Some low cost companies are known for 'tricks'... Recent 'Winston Churchill' example..
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
I'd guess that El Reg reporting it helped push up the visitor rate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
IDNet with MaxDSL
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two , because 'two' is 'one and one'. We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and'. - Arthur Stanley Eddington |
|
|
Yes, very true!
I forgot that the El Reg tends to broadcast Plus.net's woes and yes, there's no such thing as bad publicity because you're getting people to talk about your company..
So either Marco was incredibly silly by posting that rant on here or he's a very astute marketing person, it's a shame that we will never know what his train of thought was at the time he posted the piece.
=========================
Plus.net: "We can't predict the future"
Plus.net: Beware of The Leopard
My spelling mistakes are all my own Edited by caesar_salad (Sun 27-Aug-06 20:17:34)
|
|
|
> I'd guess that El Reg reporting it helped push up the visitor rate.
Heh.. It did for the forums.. It wouldn't show up on the main site really any more.. but forums it about doubled the users online at once
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
I'm sure that most of the members here realise that the PN reps were just doing what they were told to do. Mr Potesta of course won't show his face in here again because that probably would be asking for trouble. But I'm sure that the rest of them would be treated with the same civility and courtesy as they were before.
Simon
|
|
|
just for the record, i would welcome them back, on the condition that they don't SPIN.
I am sure everyone else on here would welcome them back as well :-) INCLUDING the ex-customers
|
|
|
In reply to:
But I'm sure that the rest of them would be treated with the same civility and courtesy as they were before.
Despite Plusnet spin to the contrary.
|
|
|
|
Call me cynical but I felt that I was being used to publish a message on behalf of PN when they had agreed not to post here.
I wouldn't call you cynical...
James Bailey is a two faced sort of person who likes to manipulate people; I can post links to this effect it needs be...
|
|
|
|
As long as you can keep the signups high
That is not happening in Plusnet's case though is it?
|
|
|
> James Bailey is a two faced sort of person who likes to manipulate people
I could say the same about a lot of forum users.. Constructive posts would be far better.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
> just for the record, i would welcome them back, on the condition that they don't SPIN.
One person's spin.. another's creative originality..
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
cmon Seb, even you know what i mean surely?
|
|
|
I think this ones gone on long enough Seb, I'm sure there will be plenty more topics next week.
Steve
|
|
|
|
"would be treated with the same civility and courtesy as they were before"
That was a well chosen, carefully worded reply, Simon!
You betray your occupation!
|
|
|
In reply to:
But I'm sure that the rest of them would be treated with the same civility and courtesy as they were before.
Very little, in other words? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm trying to spot the error in his statement. Nope, it seems about right.
|
|
|
In the word of Corporal Jones, "They don`t like it up em sir, they do not like it up em!."
I just laughed at how two faced he can be, one breath claiming he and his colleagues were being abused, and then doing the abusing rather pathetic really. Still not to worry it`s water off a ducks back.
|
|
|
They've changed their mind. After much head-scratching, soul-searching, brow-beating and brain-storming, they've come up with the final name for the restructured, refocused, revitalised and ressurected comms team. It will now and henceforth be known externally as, ....er, the comms team. (Drum roll)
No time and effort wasted there then.
They've also announced that forum moderator, PUG member and alleged journalist, Liam Martin is to join the new team.
Simon
Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Aug-06 19:27:40)
|
|
|
Simon,
Do you honestly belive there was a lot of time and effort put into the name?
The importance is the remit and the function of the new team and this is what people like Ian have spent a long time working on.
Internally, Comms will be known as the "Voice of the customer" - but for the time being the Comms name that everyone knows externally will remain.
A name change was originally suggested given the new responsibilities, roles and structure that the team has. The remit haa strengthened and expanded. A name change would be a fairly logical idea in my opinion, but Ian took notice of the feedback received and has acted to prevent further confusion.
|
|
|
|
Congratulations Liam..
|
|
|
In reply to:
Do you honestly belive there was a lot of time and effort put into the name?
Probably about the same amount of time that was spent in changing the name of 'tickets' to 'questions' and back to 'tickets' again.
|
|
|
Many Thanks.
Really appreciate it :-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to:
They've also announced that forum moderator, PUG member and alleged journalist, Liam Martin is to join the new team.
Yet another student joins the company ! . No disrespect intended but isn't it time they got some solid real world IT experience into the company.
---------------------------------------------------------
Loyal customer for 9 years + 6 months of poor service = 1 Ex-Plusnet Customer
Tiscali 512k for work
P ipex MAX uncapped
Speedtest
|
|
|
|
May I add my congratulations as well....... and good luck
|
|
|
With all due respect, I feel you are being a little harsh.
I'm not actually a student anymore, and in fact in my current employment I am a Director. Allbeit for a fairly small company.
Quite why I find myself justifying it I'm not sure. Please judge me on my performance in the job rather than your misconceptions of my background.
|
|
|
In reply to:
I'm not actually a student anymore, and in fact in my current employment I am a Director. Allbeit for a fairly small company.
Apologies Liam but I took the detail from your AG profile 'Occupation Student '
Having spent longer working in IT than a good proportion of PN employees have spent out of nappies I can safely say i'm not being harsh. I've worked for many of the large household names in Pharmaceuticals, Energy, Banking, Electronics etc.. both as an employee and providing my own services as a Consultant. It is from this view I made my comments regarding solid experience.
Ps - Sorry forgot earlier , congrats and good luck.
---------------------------------------------------------
Loyal customer for 9 years + 6 months of poor service = 1 Ex-Plusnet Customer
Tiscali 512k for work
P ipex MAX uncapped
Speedtest
|
|
|
If indedd you do now work for PlusNet and the fact that you are posting in this forum, is PlusNet back at ADSLGuide.org?
Or am I missing something?
Took PlusNet to the small claims court and got no response from them. Judgement issued in my favour from the court. Now PlusNet are disputting this and claim to have sent a reponse. It is quite good so I will have to wait and see.
|
|
|
Must change that - sorry. It's old!
Thanks for the congrats... :-)
|
|
|
I don't work for PlusNet yet. I start in mid-September.
|
|
|
|
"It will now and henceforth be known externally as, ....er, the comms team. (Drum roll)
No time and effort wasted there then."
I thought "the voice of derision" would have been good.
|
|
|
|
Do you honestly belive there was a lot of time and effort put into the name?
-----
No idea, Liam. I didn't say "a lot" - you did. But I do know that _some_ time and effort went into the name change and it has apparently been wasted.
There was nothing wrong with changing the name. But the brainwave that gave you "Voice of the Customer" as the new name was simply shocking in its lack of vision, intelligence and logic. It doesn't bode well for the strategists behind the new vision.
I wish you well at PlusNet, Liam. I'm sure you will fit in well.
Simon
|
|
|
>They've also announced that forum moderator, PUG member and alleged journalist, Liam Martin is to join the new team.
That's a bit of a so and so isn't it. The should of course employed you because with all your expertise in running an ISP PlusNet would be so far ahead of other ISP's and customers would be so happy no ISP in the world would be able to touch them.
|
|
|
|
"They've also announced that forum moderator, PUG member and alleged journalist, Liam Martin is to join the new team. "
That'd be someone who'll do as he's told, and can help with spin during PR brainstorming sessions then.
|
|
|
"That'd be someone who'll do as he's told, and can help with spin during PR brainstorming sessions then. "
i would say the opposite
|
|
|
|
What a strange post, George.
Simon
|
|
|
|
Once upon a time I may have agreed with you but on recent performance i would say pr is about right. I guess liam has now got what he has been after since he joined PN. I remember the throwing of toys out of the pram on PN's forum when he initially could not get into PUG.
|
|
|
In reply to:
Yet another student joins the company ! . No disrespect intended but isn't it time they got some solid real world IT experience into the company.
When I'm hiring people I don't look at what degree they have... (or haven't) got.. for a small company (and I'm talking about the non-big big companies with training programmes you get put onto straight away.. you want people who are good at the practical day to day or you know can pick it up very quickly. Sometimes an enthusiastic university leaver is far better than a cocky experienced industry person (this isn't targetted at anyone specific btw).
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
In reply to:
Internally, Comms will be known as the "Voice of the customer" - but for the time being the Comms name that everyone knows externally will remain.
Well done PlusNet! I honestly have to say I'm surprised (in a positive way)
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
In reply to:
There was nothing wrong with changing the name. But the brainwave that gave you "Voice of the Customer" as the new name was simply shocking in its lack of vision, intelligence and logic. It doesn't bode well for the strategists behind the new vision.
..and changing their mind in the full knowledge some people would use that to criticise them shows they are actually genuinely listening to feeback!
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
I don't think it's time to get carried away yet. There are many large problems which require a lot more listening than changing an unreleased, internal team name.
|
|
|
> I don't think it's time to get carried away yet. There are many large problems which
> require a lot more listening than changing an unreleased, internal team name.
It was in the public knowledge effectively so "unreleased" isn't strictly speaking true..
I'm not belittling (sp?) other problems but I think it's totally unfair for anyone to criticise PN for actually listening to people! If a toddler starts walking you don't need to complain it's not running (bad comparison.. no hidden meaning intended.. every other disclaimer applies )
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
Good Luck to you
Moo
plusnetEx CSC Agent
8mb LLU EasyNet Connection
Sheffield Sharrow Exchange
|
|
|
|
Toys out the pram when he don't get his own way? Hell, he's plusnet management potential in that case!
|
|
|
|
Agreed. But the initial wrong decision leaves a stigma. I mean, new parents can be talked out of naming their first child Adolf but the fact that they could ever contemplate it might call into question their future parenting decisions.
Simon
|
|
|
In reply to:
Agreed. But the initial wrong decision leaves a stigma. I mean, new parents can be talked out of naming their first child Adolf but the fact that they could ever contemplate it might call into question their future parenting decisions.
Oh come on! You can say they were silly in deciding the name but I don't think it leaves much of a stigma really.. It was just a name remember.. it was unwise maybe but they probably don't have expensive PR consultants to tell them that..
There's nothing wong with a parent calling their child Adolf if they feel that name is the one they want to choose.. JUST BECAUSE some historical figure was horrible doesn't mean the name should be tarnished per se.. Should PN ban all users called "Simon"?
Give them a break when they actually do something good!
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
Nothing strange about it at all - For yonks you have been telling PlusNet how to run their business and now they have missed the opportunity to get the export on board to solve all their problems.
|
|
|
|
How very true Seb,
What I always looked for (and something there is no degree for) was common sense and the abilty to learn.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I'm hiring people I don't look at what degree they have... (or haven't) got.. for a small company (and I'm talking about the non-big big companies with training programmes you get put onto straight away.. you want people who are good at the practical day to day or you know can pick it up very quickly. Sometimes an enthusiastic university leaver is far better than a cocky experienced industry person (this isn't targetted at anyone specific btw).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
Sorry guys but this thread is getting long... maybe best to pick up the interesting branches into new threads
seb
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
Pages in this thread: 
Print Thread
adslp
