Line fault VDSL

Do any of the BT bods on here know what kind of fault I have. When making a phone call the router drops connection and SNR drops through the floor. When someone is ringing in the are connected for 2 seconds and hear hissing then the call is dropped my phone doesn't even ring. Any ideas?

Hmm, HR dis, rectified loop, maybe a combination of the two ? Battery fault ? Some crappiness on the line somewhere.

Try a different filter (unlikely, but good to rule out) then report it via your service provider.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Any ideas?

Only questions.

Analog phone connected to the incoming line? [Rather than phone connected to a phone port on the router?]

Has it ever worked? Or is this a new problem?

Does it correlate to any work you have done to the phone system?

Any changes to sync speed correlated to when this problem arose?

Damn has upset DLM gone up to 4.1db now. Thought it was the phone connected to the filter but pulling that doesn't seem to make any diff. Phone connected to filter crackles and doesn't disconnect when handset placed down as a weird siren noise can be heard but incoming still disconnects after 2 secs from mobile. Will be monday before I can report to TTB.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

In reply to a post by Banger:

Any ideas?

Only questions.

Analog phone connected to the incoming line? [Rather than phone connected to a phone port on the router?]

Has it ever worked? Or is this a new problem?

Does it correlate to any work you have done to the phone system?

Any changes to sync speed correlated to when this problem arose?

Analog as in VDSL

New problem always worked.

Sync speed reduced as DLM has kicked in.

Yeah, gonna go with a battery fault somewhere.

Is there a way to have your voice provider run a remote line test ? If that fails, they can raise a fault ….. access ought need to be needed . Why wait, get the ball rolling.

Talk Talk Biz tech isn't open til Monday so can't get ball rolling. Just phoned auntie and it seems ok no DSL drops just seems to be incoming. Was telling her wasn't me being rude its a fault as its her birthday tomorrow.

Edit: TTB tech chat has changed its hours seems its open on weekends so will contact them tomorrow.

Edited by Banger (Sat 25-Jan-25 21:21:28)

Well I have removed the 5c faceplate disconnecting all the extensions and plugged a phone into the test socket and used my mobile to ring the landline and it just cuts off after 2 seconds and the phone doesn't ring. Same with no phone connected to the test socket so I would reckon a line fault somewhere.

IIRC plugging a phone into the test socket is something that is never going to work.

The filter in the faceplate or in any other filtered faceplate or a plug-in filter simply removes the broadband frequencies from the phone supply. The VDSL socket is unfiltered as the router ignores any frequencies outside the ones it expects. This is why Zarjaz suggested trying a different filter.

If you still have a plugin-in one, plug that into the test socket. Then your phone into its phone socket.

Though he is probably right about a battery fault at the OR end.

Edited by pluralist (Sun 26-Jan-25 00:56:03)

In reply to a post by pluralist:

IIRC plugging a phone into the test socket is something that is never going to work.

The filter in the faceplate or in any other filtered faceplate or a plug-in filter simply removes the broadband frequencies from the phone supply. The VDSL socket is unfiltered as the router ignores any frequencies outside the ones it expects. This is why Zarjaz suggested trying a different filter.

If you still have a plugin-in one, plug that into the test socket. Then your phone into its phone socket.

Yes the phone in test socket had a dangly filter on. But with nothing connected my mobile cuts off after 2 seconds.

Does the socket still contain a ring capacitor or is it in the filter?

Well VDSL disappeared at midnight and it was off for ages so I rang my home phone from mobile and that restored my BB. Phone rang once and then cut off.

Well I have logged the fault with TTB CS and got the usual auto message but have a case number now but they say allow 48 hours for response.

Yes the phone in test socket had a dangly filter on. But with nothing connected my mobile cuts off after 2 seconds.

Does the socket still contain a ring capacitor or is it in the filter?

Yes, it does, but there’s one in a filter too.

The cutting off after a couple of seconds is called ‘ring trip’ … this is often caused by a rectified loop fault somewhere. You have ruled out it being on internal equipment or wiring,

Look at the dreadful weather of late, a wet joint somewhere I reckon.

You had your buried UG feed replaced some years back didn’t you ? Or was it just the 66 and lead into the property itself … can’t quite remember.

Ring trip is a well recognised fault. Caused by poor insulation. Either across the pair or between the pair and another pair's battery.

If it's across the pair they will likely appoint as is usually at or close to the customer. If it's battery, they will stick it straight out to the local line engineers.

I suppose with so many circuits not having battery on them any more, there must be fewer battery faults.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The cutting off after a couple of seconds is called ‘ring trip’ … this is often caused by a rectified loop fault somewhere.

Its sad that these specific fault finding skills will eventually be lost with the introduction of full fibre across the country.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yes the phone in test socket had a dangly filter on. But with nothing connected my mobile cuts off after 2 seconds.

Does the socket still contain a ring capacitor or is it in the filter?

Yes, it does, but there’s one in a filter too.

The cutting off after a couple of seconds is called ‘ring trip’ … this is often caused by a rectified loop fault somewhere. You have ruled out it being on internal equipment or wiring,

Look at the dreadful weather of late, a wet joint somewhere I reckon.

You had your buried UG feed replaced some years back didn’t you ? Or was it just the 66 and lead into the property itself … can’t quite remember.

Yes that is correct the UG feed down my drive was replaced and a 66 was fitted. Line test has come back as rectified loop fault in or near property. Got the usual equipment checks email to rule out which I have already done so wait for an appointment.

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

Ring trip is a well recognised fault. Caused by poor insulation. Either across the pair or between the pair and another pair's battery.

If it's across the pair they will likely appoint as is usually at or close to the customer. If it's battery, they will stick it straight out to the local line engineers.

Thanks for that FB has come back as rectified fault I suspect a chamber near me which usually fills with water but could be wrong.

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

I suppose with so many circuits not having battery on them any more, there must be fewer battery faults.

Yes, but there’s now* more earth faults, the flip side of the same coin.





*I’m told.

Had the same problem on and off for years, has never been rectified, now on FTTP and copper which sorts out t'internet, but the phone at times can be dreadful, at end of present contract will be dropping copper phoneline. I hope you have better luck.

I'll have an each way bet on your new brickwork pointing being involved.

Haha, doubt it pointing done round back and side OR cable comes in at front (not touched) via BT 66 box. Not a bet I would take. Booked for tomorrow PM. Tea and biscuits will be available.

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

I'll have an each way bet on your new brickwork pointing being involved.

That’s harsh 😄

What kind of biscuits ?

Just in case you get a noob.
Dis off at the 66, PQ on the incoming pair, pass or fail shows where next.

Good luck

Dark choc digestives or Hob Nobs.

Thanks for the tips if a noob. Just had a text from OR saying confirm booking for Tuesday 1-6pm slot. Just as well I am in both days.

Dark choc digestives or Hob Nobs.

Very avant guard … I’m old school meself, ginger nuts (no insult meant) or, if the Gods really were on my side, a fig Newton.

I've always had this problem for many years on ADSL EO Line and even after upgrading to FTTC with TalkTalk I had this problem either when the phone rang, connected the phone to the master socket or simply picked up the phone.

My problem was resolved spontaneously under Digital Voice when I joined BT and BT gave me the option to migrate from Analogue phone line to DV. Since then I've never experienced this problem.

When connecting the phone to the master socket obviously it has no dial tone as this analogue service has been switched off.

But with Digital Voice the problem went away. Now of-course this issue does not occur because any phone call to the landline does not trigger a drop out since the phone call is digital.

There must be some interference in the line, which adds noise to it. That causes the SNR to drop and eventually lead to a connection drop. If the SNR holds and doesn't go to 0dB then the connection will remain. But that risk is always there. I myself have observed this in router stats for many years and no engineer was able to solve the problem.

Many years ago in 2009 I posted this problem in the Sky User (unofficial) forums, which no longer exists. People made a few suggestions like removing the orange ring wire but nothing worked for me. Maybe it might work for some. But actually in my case the problem was with the actual line as after the FTTC upgrade an Openreach engineer came to install for us a new VDSL Faceplate that gets rid of the need of a micro filter and he told us that many people have suffered from these problems and reassured us at that time that it will resolve the drop outs. To some extent he was right as I never had those frequent drop-outs after FTTC but still the analogue phone did cause drops at times. Even missed phone calls were causing drops in my connection.

But DV solves the problem. I know some people on these forums told me that this only masked the problem for me. For me the most important thing is to get rid of the problem anyhow and this was the only way that has solved it for me.

Your best bet is to contact BT and ask them if they can migrate you to Digital Voice and that should resolve your problem permanently!

If you have FTTP available then that will also solve the problem for good as such issues like SNR, DLM, etc don't exist in Full Fibre like it does with copper.

Unfortunately my only option at present is FTTC via landline and I am with TT.

My parents has the same problem as your last year. The 1st engineer was useless don't have any clue at all. Plusnet booked in for 2nd engineer, he found caused drop in snr and caused broadband keep dropping sync rate each days by DLM. He went out for almost 3 hours and found fault at the junction box to repaired the copper line after lift and shift at the exchange and also resetted DLM. Jump from 69Mbps to 80Mbps and still in sync for over 230 days now without dropping it.

Hope the engineer resolved for you tomorrow. Good luck.

Well had a text from OR, "We think we have fixed your line", nope just rang my home number and still cutting out, so look like engineer tomorrow. DLM kicked in at 1am taking my SNR to 4db.

Edited by Banger (Mon 27-Jan-25 12:26:19)

Sorry to hear that Tim …. crossing everything for tomorrow

In reply to a post by Banger:

Unfortunately my only option at present is FTTC via landline and I am with TT.

Oh, right that explains why you're on analogue. I first thought you had BT, since that's how you addressed it in your original post. But what you mean is Openreach! It is Openreach who are responsible for the line faults.

Being on FTTC doesn't stop you from getting Digital Voice as I am on BT FTTC and my migration happened over 2 years ago from TalkTalk Analogue to BT FTTC.

I'm not sure if TalkTalk can help you migrate from Analogue to Digital Voice but it may be worth a shot trying to get them to migrate you. Now they might tell you that you must renew your contract to migrate you to DV. If that's the case then you can switch to a new ISP like BT and it will offer you to switch to Digital Voice. You'll receive a free alexa phone, which you can wirelessly connect to your router and that's how you can make phone calls or connect the phone to the telephone port.

The TalkTalk router does not have a telephone port and may require an adapter. But BT Smart Hub 2 does. So you have to join an ISP that has a router with a phone port so you can connect your old vintage phone to the router for phone calls to work.

This may naturally resolve your problems for good. If you still have drop outs even after that then the problem is somewhere else on the line. But I expect it to solve your problem.

If you're not having general broadband drop outs and they only occur with the phone then DV will completely solve these problems!

I believe you are offering poor advice to the OP.

He has a line fault affecting both voice service and broadband. It needs fixing.

And AFAIK, Talktalk don't offer digital voice on copper, only for full fibre.

https://www.talktalk.co.uk/digital-voice

And what if his faulty line never gets fixed, what next? My line under ADSL EO Line was never ever fixed. Openreach could never find a fault. They plugged in a device to my master socket to test my line and did not see any fault when my connection was dropping out. It was like dial-up you can't use the phone without it affecting the connection.

Every morning around 10-11am my SNR would drop to 1dB or less and connection speed will drop to less than 1Mbps before recovering back to 6dB and then connection went back up to 15Mbps.

Eventually, FTTC did come and solved the problem but not completely. All it solved for me was the general broadband drop-outs but the connection relating to the phone ringing, plugging or picking it up (triggering disconnection) was never solved. Like the OP I was also with TalkTalk and it was my first ISP that I chose for FTTC when I joined them in February 2020.

But after 2 years I joined BT FTTC+DV. I never even bothered to try and get it fixed, I just lived with it. But DV just happened to have solved my problem spontaneously. No general broadband disconnection ever since. Have had the best result recently 173 days connection up time before a firmware update was pushed for the Smart Hub 2. Broadband+Digital Voice for me fixed it that way and frankly no one would even know that I have the underlying fault!

Openreach may not even be able to identify where the fault lies. After January 2027 everyone will migrate to DV and I am sure many people will no longer suffer from these problems ever again even when the fault will exist. By then most people will get upgraded to FTTP and then we can forget about the copper line.

Also, his connection dropping midnight may not always necessarily be associated with his faulty line. I also suffered from periodic downtime with TalkTalk at random times where anywhere from 5-20 minutes my connection was off. Router was showing as connected but the service was down and no webpages would load. This is TalkTalk being a bad service, as I never experienced this problem since migrating to BT 2.6 years ago.

Also DLM can be triggered if you repeatedly pick-up the analogue phone causing broadband to disconnect. DLM will interpret this as a line fault and try to lower connection speed to make it stable again. This also happened with me and I had to wait 10 days for it to resolve on its own.

If Openreach are unable to fix his fault then Digital Voice is much more likely to resolve it naturally.

I'm pretty confident they will find his ring trip as it is a fault that is as old as the telephone itself and can be detected even on an old fashioned analogue meter.

Moving to DV on a line with poor insulation is just masking the fault, for a while. Moving to DV on a line that tests okay isn't. These are different faults.

Edited by FibreBubble (Tue 28-Jan-25 09:40:11)

Engineer was early for his PM slot. Insisted on changing master socket and disconnecting me extensions. Has been to the green box and exchange.

Reckons it is the cable from the post at the top of me drive to the first chamber under pavement is corroded completely. Intermittent dialtone.

Told me dig team might be later this week - believe that when I see it.

Sounds like he might know his stuff.

They often use in house dig teams, the process has been improved greatly.

Keep us posted please Tim

Would the soundness (pun) of a spare pair from the BT66 to the cabinet also have been checked?

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 28-Jan-25 13:29:30)

If someone wants to replace the cable I would let them

sames.........

They also can borrow my 10m* drop wire if they want !!!!! 😂🙈

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Would the soundness (pun) of a spare pair from the BT66 to the cabinet also have been checked?

He originally wanted to do a pair swap but as there is only one cable leading from the chamber to my drive post it wouldn't help, cable replacement is the only option, it is the final chamber in the loop.

In reply to a post by Taras:

sames.........

They also can borrow my 10m* drop wire if they want !!!!! 😂🙈

No DW to be used UG … not grease filled see.

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

I'm pretty confident they will find his ring trip as it is a fault that is as old as the telephone itself and can be detected even on an old fashioned analogue meter.

Moving to DV on a line with poor insulation is just masking the fault, for a while. Moving to DV on a line that tests okay isn't. These are different faults.

Depends. If the fault only arised recently then they may be able to find the fault. But if the fault was always there from the very beginning then there is little hope in finding the solution.

For example, this famous problem always existed in Dial-Up by design as back then we had modems. My first ADSL 1Mbps service was with Tiscali in 2003 and here where I live in Central London last 32 years this problem always existed! Never found a solution. The solution for me was to simply disconnect the analogue phone and not bother to have it plugged with the master socket.

It persisted till the very end. I knew that my general broadband was usually stable but was mainly with the phone as I remember that even under ADSL when I had my SNR margin capped to 9dB that completely fixed the broadband drop outs except that the SNR did drop early mornings to 2-3dB before recovering back. This held my connection but solved the drop outs.

But the phone causing drop outs was another separate problem for me. After FTTC my general broadband drops were completely resolved as now my connection is maintained even with a 3dB SNR. But phone calls, pickups or connecting them to filter/faceplate always triggered a disconnection similarly to the behaviour experienced in Dial-Up.

A Sky engineer came and he couldn't find a fault and an Openreach engineer also couldn't find a fault. Anyway, by then we already ditched the landline and used only mobile.

Only after the Digital Voice migration with BT it resolved the problem naturally. Yes, it is masking the fault. But this will be the case for loads of customers after 2027. Many people will be secretly having the problem but they won't realise it because they simply won't know they have it as DV will not trigger these issues! That is my suggestion to the OP in the scenario that Openreach fail to fix his problem..

Ok thanks for the information. I've had the experience of fixing the odd fault myself over the years too. In excess of 20 thousand of them.

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

I've had the experience of fixing the odd fault myself over the years too. In excess of 20 thousand of them.

And what were the abiding lessons in just a minute [or a single post] without deviation, hesitation or repetition?

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

Ok thanks for the information. I've had the experience of fixing the odd fault myself over the years too. In excess of 20 thousand of them.

And after those 20,000+ fixes there's nothing better than being told how it should be done by an armchair linesman 😎

Please don't get me wrong. Blazing's story is interesting and I wouldn't want to discourage posters from contributing. Yet the story is not relevant in the case of the OP's problems, which are a well recognised fault condition that shouldn't be causing any engineer too much trouble locating.

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

Blazing's story is interesting

Message understood, for me its not the first, second or third time I've read that same story from him and I won't be surprised if I'm reading it again in the coming weeks.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

In reply to a post by Taras:

sames.........

They also can borrow my 10m* drop wire if they want !!!!! 😂🙈

No DW to be used UG … not grease filled see.

That is what I had replaced a few years back 2015 I think as identified by yourself. The new 5c master sockets seem designed to a tight spec as the fit together snuggly and dont easily come off when knocked.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

Blazing's story is interesting

Message understood, for me its not the first, second or third time I've read that same story from him and I won't be surprised if I'm reading it again in the coming weeks.

I know I've repeated my story on quite a few occasions. The problem is that when new posters come it is inevitable to not have to find myself repeating the same story. As most people aren't going to use the forum search engine to find my story.

Some people might not even know that Digital Voice can solve the problem completely. The problem that I have experienced may even be internal within my property or within the building or somewhere else. I don't deny that I have a fault somewhere.

But it is also completely possible that you may never suffer general broadband disconnections but only have the problem with the phone calls causing this trigger. I know this can be extremely frustrating for some people especially if the phone triggers DLM again! As you will have to go through 10 days of midnight drop-outs before the connection stabilises again.

This is also one reason why Openreach are retiring analogue phone lines as this causes a lot of havoc for engineers to have to troubleshoot and fix problems. Customer service will be less overloaded and the long term cost of maintaining fibre is cheaper than copper as there are fewer technical faults associated with fibre compared to copper.

The day when this country will achieve 100% Full Fibre coverage will be the day when we will never have these discussions ever again. Troubleshooting will be of different nature but this particular problem will never exist under Full Fibre+Digital Voice.

Except that the OP has been using and posting on here for decades.

Add to that , the cause of the fault HAS already been identified as an external line fault, and that this was predicted by yours truly early doors in the thread.

Your experience of your fault provides one specific answer, to one specific fault. No need to keep repeatedly trotting it out at every opportunity.

I can't be bothered to check out how long BS has been posting about his problem, which he believes is/was insoluble. I wonder if that has been decades too.

Calling him BS is a bit harsh though Bob

Of course I was merely saving typing, as I do with TM.

If you believe that ....

Well, I am a member of these forums since 2009 so I guess I did post the problem but many, many years ago. The oldest post history found on the forum under my profile is Sat 31-Oct-15. There's no search results beyond 2015. It comes up as No matches.

It is like that for other forum users as well. Not all posts can be found on the forum as some posts get archived or erased after several years.

I personally never bothered to post further as we abandoned the landline at home after getting a mobile sim & we believed it was futile and gave up. My biggest problem was always the general broadband drop-outs. So under ADSL EO Line there was absolutely no solution to this problem. It was an area wide problem as I spoke to my neighbours in my building and they were experiencing the same problem.
I remember in both cases when I was under Tiscali and BE Unlimited some Italian customer service agent suggested that he could raise the noise margin cap at 9dB to slightly reduce my broadband speeds.

That fixed the drop-outs. I went from 16Mbps (6dB) to 12Mbps (9dB) profile. As long as the phone wasn't plugged in generally my connection was then stable for around 60 days. But before that I was lucky to even get more than 3 days connection up time.

But there was still occasions when the SNR dropped from 9dB to 2-3dB early mornings. This issue obviously wasn't my line being at fault at home as immediately after FTTC went live in my building in Oct 2019 I could then maintain a stable sync with the default 3dB profile.

My problem was probably more severe than that of the OP. Maybe the comparison is not quite the same but I only suggested DV as a possible solution if all else fails..

I guess, now after viewing his posts it indeed seems like his problem is new and he didn't suffer from this problem before. If Openreach can fix his problem after identifying it, then great! Otherwise DV is likely to also be a potential solution with naturally much clearer sound quality and dial tone.

Nevertheless, despite DV solving our problem we still rarely use landline at home since we have much better range of options from Skype, Facebook, WhatsApp, etc.

The fault has been identified as a worn out cable on the final run to the house, dropping the voice service isn't going to fix it.

Fella, the art of fault finding is to diagnose the issue and associated fix with either years of experience (like some of the guys here have) and/or use test equipment, its not a "one size fits all" type of problem where you should suggest migrating to DV every time.

Next time someone says they have a line issue best read the OP's symptoms and compare them with your own line issue and if they match then maybe suggest the DV solution but as others have said don't just keep trotting it out hoping if you say it to enough people you may get lucky and be right once.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

Fella, the art of fault finding is to diagnose the issue and associated fix with either years of experience (like some of the guys here have) and/or use test equipment, its not a "one size fits all" type of problem where you should suggest migrating to DV every time.

Quite but usually its a combination using both. Also you would use test equipment to rule out further gremlins and to check your work has been up to standard.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

Next time someone says they have a line issue best read the OP's symptoms and compare them with your own line issue and if they match then maybe suggest the DV solution but as others have said don't just keep trotting it out hoping if you say it to enough people you may get lucky and be right once.

Voip doesn't solve alot of issues with a copper line and may infact mask the issue. Suggesting voip isn't a bad idea but it shouldn't be offered as a fix but a bandaid which may temporary solve such issue.

the whole "forums [in general] it works for me" sometimes is a correct answer but its without any basis in fact.

there is a difference between "well this works for me" and "well this works for me but its a band aid solution as it doesn't fix the underlaying issues"

In reply to a post by jpm:

The fault has been identified as a worn out cable on the final run to the house, dropping the voice service isn't going to fix it.

Indeed as my VDSL is now playing up, SNR is all over the place both downstream and upstream. Been on to TTB and they have booked an other engineer for tomorrow. Notes said job not complete.

I dropped first my AAISP broadband in favour of an unlimited everything SIM mid-December 2018. Relying on my phone as hotspot for all other devices. Before Jan 2019 I dropped the BT (retail/consumer) landline as well. Saving £69pm as the SIM was £22pm.

Stayed with that until installing security cams online to the cloud a few years later, so needed a mobile broadband router to maintain that connection.

The mobile broadband has in the last 12 months started to become congested although the phone is fine. Probably down to the mast now providing 5G service on the A6 but unreliably here.

Awaiting brsk going live to remedy that. Ordered back in October and final wiring up of the estate has restarted. The first batch used existing telegraph poles but a few areas are underground or too far from existing poles to daisy-chain.so brsk installed extra ones this year.

500Mbps symmetrical. £25pm fixed for 24 months down from "Price list" £33. Latest leaflets at the same £33 but at £30pm. I'll possibly keep the mobile broadband as a fall-back but go PAYG on it for use when required.

Been on to TTB and they have booked an other engineer for tomorrow. Notes said job not complete.

There is a very strong possibility that the previous task is marked incomplete, is because it has been ‘furthered’ to a different team … in this case the dig team.

Also TTB did another line test and it came back as underground fault. Me VDSL is now playing up, has been steady SNR through the fault but now its all over the place.

Failing pair won’t fix itself, it may have periods of relative stability, but its rubbish capabilities will show themselves sooner or later.

Keep the updates coming please

In reply to a post by pluralist:

I'll possibly keep the mobile broadband as a fall-back but go PAYG on it for use when required.

Best off luck with '3' - It was quite an ordeal to cease my 3g pay monthly mobile broadband last year. The supplied free dongle/sim (which I've had for several years) only worked on '3' 3g and they tried almost endlessly to upgrade me to 4/5g just before 3g was shut down in my area. In order to cease I had to "chat", for some reason, with retentions enduring and refusing ever degreasing "special" contract price offers until the cease was eventually activated. Even after that it was a month or so before I received an incomprehensible final bill.

All I needed was a mobile backup for FTTP broadband for which 3g was fine at £5 per month just for emails etc. Their hardware plus a new contract was out of the question and they simply would not supply a replacement 4/5g dongle and allow me stay on pay monthly.

Anyway Aquiss FTTP is super reliable but it would reassuring to have some form of inexpensive broadband backup.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Failing pair won’t fix itself, it may have periods of relative stability, but its rubbish capabilities will show themselves sooner or later.

Keep the updates coming please

Has been dropping every 2 hours so far tonight. SNR down is up to 6db and DS speed is 45mbps which is usually 65mbps. Upstream is usually around 10mbps and is a 9mbps. Fingers crossed dig team turns up tomorrow.

Wouldn't care the elec board had the very same area pavement up to replace cable. Maybe same problem a few months ago.

I just remembered some issues you had when you migrated from uno to TTB https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/4662929-my... near to the point where you close the thread you mention "a piece of old drop wire from the BT66 to master socket" was that ever replaced?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I just remembered some issues you had when you migrated from uno to TTB https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/4662929-my... near to the point where you close the thread you mention "a piece of old drop wire from the BT66 to master socket" was that ever replaced?

No that has never been replaced because it is awkward. eg. through a wall, I was promised a follow up visit to replace it which never happened and I never chased it.

Probably OK because only the other day an engineer connected a new NTE5 to it...the digging gang possibly don't have that little cable replacement job on their "work to be done list" !

If it is the civils gang, they don’t stuff like that. I’m hoping that the engineer who proved the fault to the buried UG checked this.
I did mention earlier about dissing and testing the line at the 66 to prove the fault in or out … and this is Bob basic practise

I find the easiest method to cease services like that is to tell them I am leaving the country - not a lot of point in them offering cheap rates if I am not able to use it.

In reply to a post by ian72:

I find the easiest method to cease services like that is to tell them I am leaving the country - not a lot of point in them offering cheap rates if I am not able to use it.

But isn’t it expensive in the long run to keep moving abroad ?
(Or have I missed something ?)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But isn’t it expensive in the long run to keep moving abroad ?
(Or have I missed something ?)

If anyone is missing anything it is ian72. He tells them he is going abroad bat consistently misses his plane.

Just had a text from OR and I have been allocated a new engineer who is on his way. Hope he doesn't repeat the work done and reads the notes.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Just had a text from OR and I have been allocated a new engineer who is on his way. Hope he doesn't repeat the work done and reads the notes.

Does that mean you haven't had a civils team come out yet? sorry if I have somehow missed a post.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Banger:

Just had a text from OR and I have been allocated a new engineer who is on his way. Hope he doesn't repeat the work done and reads the notes.

Does that mean you haven't had a civils team come out yet? sorry if I have somehow missed a post.

Not that I know of and the BB is now playing up not just the phone.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Not that I know of and the BB is now playing up not just the phone.

Surely until they have fixed the UG issue this visit is futile.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Banger:

Not that I know of and the BB is now playing up not just the phone.

Surely until they have fixed the UG issue this visit is futile.

Unless he is going to pull a new cable one can but hope.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Unless he is going to pull a new cable one can but hope.

I hope I'm wrong but surely if that had been possible the first engineer would have done that rather than calling out the civil team. I know all engineers are not equal so hopefully you may have a really good one attend and fix it.

Yep, I agree. But strange things happen. (sadly)

Last Tuesday you wrote:

In reply to a post by Banger:

Engineer was early for his PM slot. Insisted on changing master socket and disconnecting me extensions. Has been to the green box and exchange.

Reckons it is the cable from the post at the top of me drive to the first chamber under pavement is corroded completely. Intermittent dialtone.

Told me dig team might be later this week - believe that when I see it.

Was that just his opinion regarding a dig team or has a team been formally assigned to the job?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

In reply to a post by ian72:

I find the easiest method to cease services like that is to tell them I am leaving the country - not a lot of point in them offering cheap rates if I am not able to use it.

But isn’t it expensive in the long run to keep moving abroad ?
(Or have I missed something ?)

They would never know you aren't moving - it just means as you are saying you are moving abroad there isn't anything they can offer to entice you to stay. Negates all of the offers of cheaper rates.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But isn’t it expensive in the long run to keep moving abroad ?
(Or have I missed something ?)

If anyone is missing anything it is ian72. He tells them he is going abroad bat consistently misses his plane.

Dang, sometimes it can be difficult to remember what time your flight is...

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Last Tuesday you wrote:

In reply to a post by Banger:

Engineer was early for his PM slot. Insisted on changing master socket and disconnecting me extensions. Has been to the green box and exchange.

Reckons it is the cable from the post at the top of me drive to the first chamber under pavement is corroded completely. Intermittent dialtone.

Told me dig team might be later this week - believe that when I see it.

Was that just his opinion regarding a dig team or has a team been formally assigned to the job?

Sadly I suspect an opinion said he took photos of the corrosion. Looks like today's is a no show but has til 6pm then I can put me music on.

Sorry to hear that - it will be getting dark in an hour or so...

In reply to a post by Banger:

Looks like today's is a no show

Sorry to hear that, this is where it gets very frustrating for the customer who has limited or no service on their line.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Looks like today's is a no show but has til 6pm then I can put me music on.

That utterly sucks. I do hope it gets sorted soon(like in the next 2 weeks)

Well had an interesting discussion on the phone with the engineer who didn't turn up. Apart from he said he is self employed so no turn up no pay, the fault he was told was inside the property and I informed him that it is the cable between the first chamber and the post in my drive or so I was told. He said he is going to pop along in the morning.

In reply to a post by Banger:

he was told was inside the property

Never understand how an engineer can walk away from your property believing its an external UG cable issue under your drive and a few days later the next engineer turns up says they have been told its a fault inside the property. Its good to talk.

Last Sunday you wrote:

In reply to a post by Banger:

Line test has come back as rectified loop fault in or near property.

I guess the guy who didn't turn up today wasn't given the full info...

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 31-Jan-25 17:52:32)

They would never know you aren't moving - it just means as you are saying you are moving abroad there isn't anything they can offer to entice you to stay. Negates all of the offers of cheaper rates.

My reply had been tongue in cheek Ian, but thank you for explaining anyway

That’s pants Tim.

Ring TT and complain bitterly.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Well had an interesting discussion on the phone with the engineer who didn't turn up. Apart from he said he is self employed so no turn up no pay, the fault he was told was inside the property and I informed him that it is the cable between the first chamber and the post in my drive or so I was told. He said he is going to pop along in the morning.

So it would seem that the engineer you spoke to was a contractor (based on the ‘no turn up, no pay’ comment. My guess is that him not being able to ‘clear’ on the fault would mean them getting no pay. Hence not attending . I’ll wager he won’t arrive tomorrow either.

The automated test system will,9 times out of ten, allocate the fault as ‘CA’ (customers apparatus) so will seek an appointment.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

In reply to a post by Banger:

Well had an interesting discussion on the phone with the engineer who didn't turn up. Apart from he said he is self employed so no turn up no pay, the fault he was told was inside the property and I informed him that it is the cable between the first chamber and the post in my drive or so I was told. He said he is going to pop along in the morning.

So it would seem that the engineer you spoke to was a contractor (based on the ‘no turn up, no pay’ comment. My guess is that him not being able to ‘clear’ on the fault would mean them getting no pay. Hence not attending . I’ll wager he won’t arrive tomorrow either.

I have complained to TTB in the case notes. I have his number so will be ringing him if I have to get up for nothing. BB has settled a bit with drops around 8 hours between but phone still cuts off when rang.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The automated test system will,9 times out of ten, allocate the fault as ‘CA’ (customers apparatus) so will seek an appointment.

Yes I saw that here also: https://support.aa.net.uk/Copper_Line_Tests "Rectified Loop fault a one way loop - check internal wiring before going further."

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The automated test system will,9 times out of ten, allocate the fault as ‘CA’ (customers apparatus) so will seek an appointment.

Yes I saw that here also: https://support.aa.net.uk/Copper_Line_Tests "Rectified Loop fault a one way loop - check internal wiring before going further."

First engineer disconnected my extensions, changed the NTE and tested from the test socket with his test phone, first thing he did.

Well no engineer turned up instead he called me to say he had had a look and reckoned the cable down the drive needs replacing. Said he had tested and it was earth contact on the line. Then said the chamber on the street is elec chamber but I dont think it is. TTB have booked another engineer for Monday.

Opened a complaint with TTB but the agent wanted to close it straight away because she had booked an engineer.

Is Clive Selly the OR CEO still?

In frustration/trying to be helpful I've done this in the past myself where I've told an engineer what a previous engineer has suspected and 9 out of 10 times they have just gone along with what the first engineer has said without even doing any meaningful investigations themselves. The contract fella who should have turned up yesterday/today hasn't probably bothered to get off his sofa.

Yes I believe Clive is still the man.

Is Clive Selly the OR CEO still?

Just Googled it , and yes. Complain like ****

Well the phone problem seems to have cleared itself. Now I can ring in to my landline and it rings fine for many rings and doesn't cut off but broadband drops. Same as when I am dialing out the broadband drops. I have been on to TTB and raised a complaint. Booked another engineer for Monday.

What kind of fault do I have now when the broadband drops when making a call or receiving?

What kind of fault do I have now when the broadband drops when making a call or receiving?

That’s an HR … and I’ll wager that the location of the HR is where the reccy is/was .. fix the HR, and the reccy loop won’t back either.

That's assuming TalkTalk are actually booking Openreach engineers. Rather than sending around Qube or suchlike peeps on their behalf.

That TalkTalk are able to rebook engineers on a live fault rather than getting an update on the live fault from Openreach is strange and suggests jobs are being closed rather than furthered.

Difficult to tell in these days of the Wild West.

Edited by FibreBubble (Sat 01-Feb-25 21:25:02)

I'll get TTB to run another line test tomorrow. I've run a test of ringing in with my mobile and all extentions disconnected and BB still drops. Only NTE in the circuit.

Edited by Banger (Sat 01-Feb-25 21:25:06)

Difficult to tell in these days of the Wild West.

Damn straight.

In reply to a post by Banger:

I'll get TTB to run another line test tomorrow. I've run a test of ringing in with my mobile and all extentions disconnected and BB still drops. Only NTE in the circuit.

Good luck, the usual tests don’t always pick up an HR, unless it’s virtually one leg dis.

A good trick to fault it is to put your tester in sync, look at the error counters, and keep watching whilst you break dial tone with your butt, you can often see a big rush of corrected errors, maybe even spilling over into HECs … it might even drop sync, and that’s what you chase.

Trouble is, these days, many use crock clips on the pair, straight to the tester, so you can’t put a filter in that set up.

The old adapters that allowed this were becoming hard to come by. The workaround is a rigged up NTE and SSFP with a fly lead…

Anyway, enough flannel for now.

I've been swapping and reconfiguring modems just to rule out my Zyxel VMG-1312-B10A is not getting a bit long in the tooth. SNR seems to start at 6db then gradually drop over 2 hours to 3db then resync back to 6db as DLM has adjusted the top SNR to 6.

Interesting MSFT Copilot thinks its a HR fault after feeding in that I had disconnected filters and extensions. It also said get an engineer to do a full line inspection including line card and exchange equipment. Quite good that Copilot.

It also said get an engineer to do a full line inspection including line card and exchange equipment.

All in the 50 minutes allocated standard task time. Ha !

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It also said get an engineer to do a full line inspection including line card and exchange equipment.

All in the 50 minutes allocated standard task time. Ha !

Sounds like the AI was covering every base so couldn't be wrong.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It also said get an engineer to do a full line inspection including line card and exchange equipment.

All in the 50 minutes allocated standard task time. Ha !

Sounds like the AI was covering every base so couldn't be wrong.

Think it was scraped from the A&A website. There must be only one agent at TTB on a weekend and she keeps closing cases as soon as they are opened and it's annoying me as well as the fault changing.

Sounds like the AI was covering every base so couldn't be wrong.

They are standard notes for some specific CP’s.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It also said get an engineer to do a full line inspection including line card and exchange equipment.

All in the 50 minutes allocated standard task time. Ha !

Visit number: 1Type of engineer: SFIAppointment reference number: 1-xxxxxxxNotes added for the engineer: Issue - DCNComplete fit new NTE and RF3 (not SSFP)Replace D & E Sides to best possible pairs.Renew drop wire if applicable to EUComplete L&S or if new ties available, complete TPM. If more time required, get auth from OR HelpdeskPrevious work carried out (if applicable): n/a - Recommend ccSFi to check for splitter card issues.

All done on a Saturday afternoon in 2011 when I had a DSL fault - it took several hours!

All done on a Saturday afternoon in 2011 when I had a DSL fault - it took several hours!

2011 ….. things were very different in those days. An SFI got a two hour task time.

Well have fired off two emails. One to Mr Selly and another to the TT Group complaints as complaints to TTB just get closed without action. Also a billing query. My billing has been somewhat erratic over the last couple of months.

Well the best of luck for a favourable outcome from those.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Well the best of luck for a favourable outcome from those.

Cheers.

So a Quinn contractor showed up today and has done line checks. Keeps getting different faults on the line check with one a diss. one a loop and one a pass. Broadband keeps dropping and is now banded at 44mbps. He said he is going to send it back to OR and he cant pull new cable but isn't sure where the fault is.

They are quality aren’t they ?

The engineering equivalent of lip service. Beloved by the bean counters, and faceless middle management.

I seriously hope you get a proper, multi skilled, experienced Openreach bod next time Tim. (There is still a chance that it needs a maintenance dig)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

They are quality aren’t they ?

The engineering equivalent of lip service. Beloved by the bean counters, and faceless middle management.

I seriously hope you get a proper, multi skilled, experienced Openreach bod next time Tim. (There is still a chance that it needs a maintenance dig)

Couldn't they temporarily run a a cable overground if they believe the underground issue is within the OP's boundary so he at least has some working service.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

They are quality aren’t they ?

The engineering equivalent of lip service. Beloved by the bean counters, and faceless middle management.

I seriously hope you get a proper, multi skilled, experienced Openreach bod next time Tim. (There is still a chance that it needs a maintenance dig)

Couldn't they temporarily run a a cable overground if they believe the underground issue is within the OP's boundary so he at least has some working service.

It's on a public pavement.

In reply to a post by Banger:

It's on a public pavement.

Thanks for clarifying.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

They are quality aren’t they ?

The engineering equivalent of lip service. Beloved by the bean counters, and faceless middle management.

I seriously hope you get a proper, multi skilled, experienced Openreach bod next time Tim. (There is still a chance that it needs a maintenance dig)

Give him his due he came back after the first hour and continued to fault find. I felt sorry for him because his fault finding is to attach a faceplate at each junction until the line tests clear on his mobile phone.

And he may have well fixed it as my line SNR is now stable and I can call out without the BB dropping. He said he agreed with the first contractor's notes and that the cable between the post on my drive and the first BT chamber needed replacing so he would send back to OR for them to pull cable.

Just phoned him to tell him the good news but reckons I have hit a lucky patch with it and the cable which is a single pair still needs replacing.

Edited by Banger (Mon 03-Feb-25 17:57:48)

Give him his due he came back after the first hour and continued to fault find. I felt sorry for him because his fault finding is to attach a faceplate at each junction until the line tests clear on his mobile phone.

I wouldn’t give him any due for that, if they are to fault lines, give them the equipment and training to do so.

I guess that is why the first contractor looked blank when I suggested using a PQ from the 66 to track the fault.

In reply to a post by Banger:

he may have well fixed it as my line SNR is now stable and I can call out without the BB dropping. He said he agreed with the first contractor's notes and that the cable between the post on my drive and the first BT chamber needed replacing

If you have a 'jointing post' at the top of your drive, it is common for a rectified loop or HR to be in the butt of the cable so he may well have stumbled upon it.

The problem is that you really need to be an old fashioned wiggle and watch the meter needle This type of fault finding and interpreting your own testing is out of fashion these days.

Example of one type of jointing post. https://www.ringbell.co.uk/nostalgia/img/ABG02.jpg

Edited by FibreBubble (Mon 03-Feb-25 18:24:13)

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

In reply to a post by Banger:

he may have well fixed it as my line SNR is now stable and I can call out without the BB dropping. He said he agreed with the first contractor's notes and that the cable between the post on my drive and the first BT chamber needed replacing

If you have a 'jointing post' at the top of your drive, it is common for a rectified loop or HR to be in the butt of the cable so he may well have stumbled upon it.

The problem is that you really need to be an old fashioned wiggle and watch the meter needle This type of fault finding and interpreting your own testing is out of fashion these days.

Example of one type of jointing post. https://www.ringbell.co.uk/nostalgia/img/ABG02.jpg

Well you maybe right. The jointing post is similar to the picture but thinner and a huge T on it fitted in the 80s.

In reply to a post by Banger:

So a Quinn contractor showed up today and has done line checks. Keeps getting different faults on the line check with one a diss. one a loop and one a pass. Broadband keeps dropping and is now banded at 44mbps. He said he is going to send it back to OR and he cant pull new cable but isn't sure where the fault is.

So he suggested a new cable is required but we still don't actually know where the fault is - surely he must have found a good connection somewhere when using his improvised (?) methods...

They get full of ants nests and damp. One of many silly ideas over the years. I would often pull the whole lot back through the duct, if there was one, into the chamber and fit a proper joint.

Edited by FibreBubble (Mon 03-Feb-25 18:33:59)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by Banger:

So a Quinn contractor showed up today and has done line checks. Keeps getting different faults on the line check with one a diss. one a loop and one a pass. Broadband keeps dropping and is now banded at 44mbps. He said he is going to send it back to OR and he cant pull new cable but isn't sure where the fault is.

So he suggested a new cable is required but we still don't actually know where the fault is - surely he must have found a good connection somewhere when using his improvised (?) methods...

That was 1pm, later at 2pm he said he had found the problem and a cable needs replacing with single pair which is corroded and the now stable line maybe just a bit of luck.

You could be right about he got lucky as at 1:05pm just after he arrived and was messing with the post he got a line test pass. But after that they failed with various errors. At one point he wired my line to next door and phoned me on my mobile to check for dialtone and BB sync LOL.

Well I spoke too soon. At 20:21 line dropped and now there is loud crackling sound on the phone line. Current sync is 11mbps down.

So the hints point to the early diagnosis, the length from jointing post to the start of your. If that’s the case, next step is for a track and mark engineer to come and mark up for a dig, unless the entire length from JP to BT66 is 20m or less, if it is, they can just put in for the whole she bang to be redone (hopefully in duct to future proof it).

That’s my guesstimate.

The cable from BT66 to the jointing post was put in a duct so that would be just a case of pulling through. In fact the engineer today swapped the pair from BT66 to post as a precaution. Not sure about the post to first chamber as it has recently been concreted over because of electrical cable work. Probably them whodunnit.

My parents was lucky to have 2nd engineer (very skilled) and found the fault and repaired the copper line after lift and shift at the exchange.

So had an email from High Level complaints after my email to Clive and now have an OR engineer coming over this afternoon. Apparently he has changed a pair from 2nd chamber to first chamber but left me with no dial tone so coming back.

In reply to a post by Banger:

So had an email from High Level complaints after my email to Clive and now have an OR engineer coming over this afternoon. Apparently he has changed a pair from 2nd chamber to first chamber but left me with no dial tone so coming back.

Does that mean that voice is not being feed to the alternative pair but you still have a broadband connection?

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

Example of one type of jointing post. https://www.ringbell.co.uk/nostalgia/img/ABG02.jpg

Copper Cables RIP

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by Banger:

So had an email from High Level complaints after my email to Clive and now have an OR engineer coming over this afternoon. Apparently he has changed a pair from 2nd chamber to first chamber but left me with no dial tone so coming back.

Does that mean that voice is not being feed to the alternative pair but you still have a broadband connection?

I am not quite sure but he says he has found it in the stretch of cable first identified from post to first chamber. He found a HR dis on one leg in the cable said he pulled it and it just came away in his hand.

Four line tests passed and he reset DLM so now the wait for 3db. Did another test and the rectified loop came back so disconnected phone and extensions and it showed clear, so looks like the corded phone from Argos which is faulty can be disconnected.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Does that mean that voice is not being feed to the alternative pair but you still have a broadband connection?

Unless the line test equipment has been moved from the exchange to the FTTC cabinet I believe the voice pair would need to be put through so the engineer could perform line tests.

Certainly seems like a fault on one leg of the UG cable under the pavement has been causing your issues - I think you said that was just single pair...

Argos phone causing problems?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Certainly seems like a fault on one leg of the UG cable under the pavement has been causing your issues - I think you said that was just single pair...

Argos phone causing problems?

Yes seems fixed. Argos phone a bit crackly so took it out of the circuit to get a clear. Single pair yes wouldn't replace said was fine. The ring trip may have been caused by a US Robotics Fax Modem which looks like it has died so unplugged as well.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

Example of one type of jointing post. https://www.ringbell.co.uk/nostalgia/img/ABG02.jpg

Copper Cables RIP

9083 RIP more like

In reply to a post by Banger:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Certainly seems like a fault on one leg of the UG cable under the pavement has been causing your issues - I think you said that was just single pair...

Argos phone causing problems?

Yes seems fixed. Argos phone a bit crackly so took it out of the circuit to get a clear. Single pair yes wouldn't replace said was fine. The ring trip may have been caused by a US Robotics Fax Modem which looks like it has died so unplugged as well.

So from the NTE5 test socket all tests are now fine?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by Banger:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Certainly seems like a fault on one leg of the UG cable under the pavement has been causing your issues - I think you said that was just single pair...

Argos phone causing problems?

Yes seems fixed. Argos phone a bit crackly so took it out of the circuit to get a clear. Single pair yes wouldn't replace said was fine. The ring trip may have been caused by a US Robotics Fax Modem which looks like it has died so unplugged as well.

So from the NTE5 test socket all tests are now fine?

Yes he ran 4 consecutive tests as one of the contractors was getting random results but all 4 came back pass.

Old fashioned 9083 meter could detect old fashioned customer equipment with a loop on it pretty snappy, on visit one, and without any doubt, quibble or app.

Edited by FibreBubble (Tue 04-Feb-25 21:45:19)

When the one I got issued finally broke, I bought another from the Bay of Fleas, and when that packed up, replaced it again. That final one still lives in my shed.

There was nowt better for identifying loops, and reccy loops. I could discern different types of modem via it … all kind of useful stuff.

I still have the original 301c …. they can prise that from my still warm dead hands if they are desperate.

From my testing (without a 301c or other meter) by disconnecting my Panasonic Quad Dect the ring trip after 4 rings doesn't happen. So assuming the Panasonic is the culprit. Tested several times in and out of circuit.

It's fairly random but the Panasonic set is fairly old with tiny screen so hopefully I have found it.

Just looked at the receipt for the Panasonic with original batteries which still hold charge, 2009. Not a bad innings.

Edited by Banger (Wed 05-Feb-25 23:40:01)

Hmmm that's not it but I think I may have stumbled on the rectified loop with the help of MSFT Copilot. Pulled off the extensions one by one until I got a 4 ring trip. One extension is testing with a multimeter 6Mohm in one direction and open circuit in the other direction. What do you guys think.

I have left the extension disconnected as there was only an old corded BT answerphone on it and replaced with a DECT phone. Have ordered another DECT phone can two DECT phones co-exist say one base station upstairs and one base downstairs?

Edited by Banger (Thu 06-Feb-25 04:03:06)

If it's stable at 6Mohm, it's not low enough to ring trip. But test conditions do change so worth ruling out by leaving disconnected for a while.

Edited by FibreBubble (Thu 06-Feb-25 09:31:33)

Why don't you keep it simple for a week or two by disconnecting all extension wiring and see if the line becomes stable, trying to add back in the internal extension wiring will only drag this out further as first you need to ensure the outside issues are actually fixed.

Correction, tried with another meter on a lower range (20K) and it is reading 6kohm in one direction. Is that low enough to cause rectified loop and ring trip?

6kOhm of itself is probably not enough for a ring trip. BUT given that it is a rectified loop issue, 6kOhm at test meter voltages is likely to be a much lower resistance at higher voltages and possibly quite adequate to cause ring trip.

To be more specific it was starting at 6k and dropping to about 3 or 4 in one direction. Open circuit in the other. I have abandoned the extension as there is only one phone on it replaced now by a dect phone.

Looks like you have found it then. Once you get the ringing down it then it will prolly go lower and trip

Not going near that new render is it 😊

Haha no its purely internal but the cable is under a high traffic doorway so could be there. No brickies involved.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Haha no its purely internal but the cable is under a high traffic doorway so could be there. No brickies involved.

Never, never, never, run telephone cabling under a door threshold, or tuck it down with the grippa rods 🙄

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

In reply to a post by Banger:

Haha no its purely internal but the cable is under a high traffic doorway so could be there. No brickies involved.

Never, never, never, run telephone cabling under a door threshold, or tuck it down with the grippa rods 🙄

Well it was my late father who dun the deed many moons ago. Not much I can do now other than abandon it and use DECT.

Indeed. I’ve not anything other than a single NTE in my last four dwellings.

The sad thing is, how many engineers hadn’t been able to spot the two separate issues.

In one of my earlier replies I mentioned dissing of the line at the 66, allowing for tests to show the reccy loop inside, and an HR on the pair going back. This is Bob basic practise, but was not done successfully.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Indeed. I’ve not anything other than a single NTE in my last four dwellings.

The sad thing is, how many engineers hadn’t been able to spot the two separate issues.

In one of my earlier replies I mentioned dissing of the line at the 66, allowing for tests to show the reccy loop inside, and an HR on the pair going back. This is Bob basic practise, but was not done successfully.

The question that is puzzling me the most is how come the two issues occur at exactly the same time?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Indeed. I’ve not anything other than a single NTE in my last four dwellings.

The sad thing is, how many engineers hadn’t been able to spot the two separate issues.

In one of my earlier replies I mentioned dissing of the line at the 66, allowing for tests to show the reccy loop inside, and an HR on the pair going back. This is Bob basic practise, but was not done successfully.

One of the Quinn blokes was getting rectified loop at the drive post with my property disconnected. Weird.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Indeed. I’ve not anything other than a single NTE in my last four dwellings.

The sad thing is, how many engineers hadn’t been able to spot the two separate issues.

In one of my earlier replies I mentioned dissing of the line at the 66, allowing for tests to show the reccy loop inside, and an HR on the pair going back. This is Bob basic practise, but was not done successfully.

The question that is puzzling me the most is how come the two issues occur at exactly the same time?

The rectified loop has always been on the line since the ring trip started but the HR might have been caused by the Quinn blokes poking around in the chamber as that is where the OR Engineer found the HR.

In reply to a post by Banger:

The rectified loop has always been on the line since the ring trip started but the HR might have been caused by the Quinn blokes poking around in the chamber as that is where the OR Engineer found the HR.

Hope your line is back to normal now.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Banger:

The rectified loop has always been on the line since the ring trip started but the HR might have been caused by the Quinn blokes poking around in the chamber as that is where the OR Engineer found the HR.

Hope your line is back to normal now.

Everything works normally now. Sync is 65mbps which is normal for my line and people can ring in.

In reply to a post by Banger:

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Banger:

The rectified loop has always been on the line since the ring trip started but the HR might have been caused by the Quinn blokes poking around in the chamber as that is where the OR Engineer found the HR.

Hope your line is back to normal now.

Everything works normally now. Sync is 65mbps which is normal for my line and people can ring in.

Glad you got there in the end ….

In reply to a post by Banger:

Everything works normally now. Sync is 65mbps which is normal for my line and people can ring in.

Are you sure Sync 65Meg is normal range (should be 80Meg if the engineer did Resetted DLM after repaired the fault) They did that to my parents.

Come off it. In the past you knew very well that the speed on FTTC depends mainly on distance from the cabinet. Your parents must be very close to theirs.