Can I get interleaving turned off?

Hi guys,

Is there anyway to get interleaving turned off? Every time I call up BT they don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

Today I was getting around 300-400ms ping (via speedtest.net and TBB) and although now it's 80ms my son can't even play Call of Duty on his Xbox.

I would appreciate if someone could reply back, would appreciate this.

Thanks, Jack

Who's your ISP?

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

Hi guys,

Is there anyway to get interleaving turned off? Every time I call up BT they don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Who's your ISP?

Isn't his ISP BT since he called them up?

jdowning, have you tried to put some pressure on the customer service center? Try to keep repeating yourself, making it certain you know what you are talking about - worked for me a couple of times

Good luck

Isn't his ISP BT since he called them up?



Possibly maybe/maybe not



http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/3960684-lin...

Exchange 'NIAL'

I have a line which is right beside the other. It's on Sky (running on BTs network since LLU is not enabled on any provides on my exchange).

If its the Sky line very doubtful of getting interleaving turned off

Hi guys, this is jdowning640 here (can't remember the password for that account).

Yes - provider is BT. Appreciate your fast replies.

The situation has got worse from yesterday - get about 0.5 download on average through speed tests and 0.14 upload.

Here it is from speedtest.net

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1156009773.png

I usually get lower results and this has only started happening over the past few days. None of my network settings have changed and I have done nothing to affect my broadband.

Jack

Try this > http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/recover-details.php


Harry

Your problem is nothing to do with interleaving, but from the info so far very hard to know what it is.

For starters we need full line stats from the Home Hub and the results of a BT Performance Test.

Hi there all, found my password.

I use a Linksys WAG354G router (have tried with Home Hub but no difference).

I can't use 'speedtester.bt.com' - it says that the connection is too poor to complete.

These are the stats from the WAG354G:

DSL Status: UP
DSL Modulation Mode: GDMT
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 2432 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 9 db
Upstream Margin: 20 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 40
Upstream Line Attenuation: 21
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

-Jack

You should be connecting round about the 8Mbps mark with an IP Profile of 6500 or above, not 2432kbps.

Does the phone work? If it does, have you tried the Quiet Line Test, 17070 Option 2? Best with a corded phone into the Test socket inside the master socket.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 13-Feb-11 21:08:46)

I have never ever got above 2Mbps (aswell as on the lines which are right beside me.)

I live about 2.5 miles from the exchange - would this be right?

Jack

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Feb-11 21:37:54)

In that case you have always had some sort of fault, but as well as slowing you down a lot it is now beginning to fail completely.

Just try a quiet line test using the phone as normal. It should be silent.

Post deleted by jdowning640

Definitely a lot of noise on that line.

This line is only used for broadband and we use VoIP so the calls aren't made through copper wire. This is why I wouldn't have noticed the noise but there is definitely a hell of a load of interference or noise or something.

Believe it or not, that is good ! It is easier to cure the problem if you have this happening.

Was it a corded or cordless phone?

The ideal test is a corded phone into the test socket, on the wall at the back in this pic. All other phones should stop working when you have the master open.

You don't have a burglar alarm wired into the phone do you?

Assuming you don't have such a burglar alarm, if there is noise on this test then you simply report a phone line fault to whoever you pay line rental to. Tell them you are getting noise on the line. Do not mention broadband, not even as a point of interest, because if you do they will tell you to go back to your ISP.

As there is a line fault affecting voice, there is a requirement for that fault to be fixed. Get it fixed, and in 99% of cases the broadband is automatically fixed.

For an ISP to get it sorted is always very difficult for many reasons.

Hi Roberto,

Indeed - it was a corded phone. No burglar alarms, nothing else even plugged in except the broadband.

But on the BT Wholesale checker, it says for my neighbour (lives closer to exchange/cab):

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 3.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 2.5Mbps and 6.5Mbps.

Whereas on the line I'm talking about:

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 1.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 500Kbps and 2.5Mbps.

And on the line (on the same premises / different line):

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 3Mbps.

Would there be something wrong with that line aswell?

Jack

And by the way,

I looked at my wiring at the master socket and from this image...

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephon...

I can see that I only have the two orange cables going to the ones marked in red (I believe it's like that for some master sockets according to http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephon... " Usually (but not always) Orange and White are the active pair and go to connections 2 and 5. In some master boxes (such as the type with a removable front section) they go to two connectors marked A and B.".

There is nothing else in any of the other little connectors (1,2,3,4,5,6 etc).

I have scheduled an engineer visit for Tuesday - should I be worried about getting a £130 charge?
I've got a BT friend who works in Openreach, I told him to come around and do some work a few times before (not sure if he fully knew what he was doing but would I be charged? I'm not getting him around again, I booked the appointment online through BT.

Thanks Roberto for your help, appreciate it.

Edited by deleted (Mon 14-Feb-11 01:28:31)

How long have you been with BT as your internet provider?

Been with BT for about 5 years, then 1 year on Virgin Media (not fibre), then was back on BT for about another 5 years.

Same speed all the way.

That's good - you could leave them.

You may be able to achieve better speeds elsewhere, or at the very least, get money off what you pay now.
IF you paid less with BT, it would start a new, long contract.

You ARE a good bit from your exchange, but you should get better elsewhere. Ask around but remember, most users will say that their provider is best.

I don't think I agree there Guesty.

It is almost certainly a wiring or line problem, I'm not sure which. That would be the same with any ISP, as demonstrated by the other line being the same.

Hes not really that far from the exchange.

Downstream line attenuation of 40 isn't bad at all IMO.

Do you have any extension sockets wired in?

Baffled at the moment.

As you have two lines with the same low original speed, and now this development, I don't see how it can be anything but external. I don't want the bill if you get one though. Are both lines supplied from one incoming cable - assuming it is overhead so you can see it?

Did you just report a noise on line problem?

The BT database line estimates are very often based on the historical performance of the line, basically as information perhaps for the next buyer/occupant. Notoriously inaccurate, as we see here. The attenuation is the measure of how much the signal has degraded between you and the exchange and is absolutely the prime determinant of the expected speed, give or take a bit. See this graph. The average figure is because it includes results from lines like yours. My observations on these forums are that 40dB attenuation gets 6.5Mbps+ connections speed. Throughput is of course lower.

WHy did you delete the earlier post?

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 14-Feb-11 08:44:30)

HI Robertp, there's not one other extension socket wired in to that master socket.

Indeed, wires run overhead to a box then straight over to the master socket.

Because this is a business, the government here in northern Ireland are requiring BT to e able to provide a service of 2Mbps in rural areas. They're currently fitting the equipment in my exchange and apparently theyll be calling me within the next week to arrange an order and date for installation. Should I cancel this engineer visit and wait until this guy that comes to install it gets around here and have him have a look at it? I really don't want to be charged £130 as our business has enough bills at the moment and I don't think I've done anything wrong to get a bill for that amount.

Do you want to see pictures of my master socket?

I live 1.9 miles from exchange. 1.5 on average download and 0.15 upload.
My brother who lives 2.9 miles gets nearly the exact same speeds as me and he's on the sane exchange.

-Jack

Ah - I thought that was your master socket. It's also a wierd one, never seen one like that.

Yes, a pic of the inside of yours might be useful. Just like this one. There shouldn't be any wires to the faceplate, but check for signs of damp.

Hi there,

Didn't see the point in posting a picture as there is no wires attached to the numbering section (the bit you showed me) except two wires screwed in to the bit behind another screw (this is because I have no extensions elsewhere).

I tried switching those wires around although made no difference what so ever.

On the other line in the house, there is a tiny bit of line noise although not nearly enough to compare it to the one on the line we're primarily talking about.

I've got about 40 minutes to cancel this BT appointment. Should I do it? I might call out my BT Engineer friend as I don't want to get hit with a bill.

On the other line (in the house, we're on Sky, the lines are just a few metres apart from each other). By the way, this is the 'Sky Connect' service, not the LLU service.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1156908069.png

Router Stats:

http://i55.tinypic.com/etwt2b.png

Thanks

-Jack

If there is noise on the line then it needs fixing, and it clearly isn't your end. The risk of a charge is about as low as it gets, especially on a phone noise callout.

Clearing the noise has a good chance of radically improving the broadband. It's worth telling the engineer about the slight noise on the other line as well, it may give him a clue to where to look.

You shouldn't be touching the hidden connections! Shhhh .

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 14-Feb-11 11:29:16)

So if there is noise on the line then it definitely isn't my end?

Just re-reading - with the corded phone into the test socket inside the master, without broadband connected, not even the filter. If there is noise then, you are totally safe.

Yep that's correct - I'll see how I get on - I'm a bit stupid, cancelled that engineer visit as there's 4 minutes.

Should I reorganize it?

Jack

It isn't going to get fixed any other way, is it?

Just I hadn't spotted that the noisy line was with broadband connected. That defeated the object of the test.

with a sync speed that low and no extensions etc a split pair might be a possibility.

Want to thank you for all your help - if I should be getting around 6Mbps if the line gets fixed, then would that mean I'll be able to qualify for the fibre service (since it was reduced to 5Mbps?).

I believe the estimates are quite low but some people receive quite high actual results.

Jack

I must admit 2 x orange looks odd. I wonder what the Sky line has?

See yarwell's post and my reply.

Here's a few pictures - I think the orange wires connect into the blue wires. I don't have a clue what a split pair is, could someone lead me to the correct direction?

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7645/img0229ydp.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2100/img0230n.jpg

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1169/img0231vm.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2444/img0232zh.jpg

Edited by deleted (Mon 14-Feb-11 12:35:33)

And Roberto, do you want me to check the Sky line's master socket or just the socket for the internet?

Re the Sky socket I was meaning the two wires that supply the socket.

Having said that, are three of the pics the same junction box? I'm not sure why there are three unless you are just trying to get a better pic. The first one is muzzy, so maybe that is what you are at .

As I don't know how the crimped joints work I'm now out of my depth, but have a gut feel things there aren't quite right. That pic of blue and white/blue going to detached A/B terminals - what is the thing they are attached to? Is it the the rear connections in an NTE5?

A split pair is where you have two wires and each is from a different pair, losing the benefit of being twisted in the first place.

I'm studying your photos, it looks to me like the black incoming cable (with jelly all over it) has some crimped connections leading off elsewhere before the blue/white pair in the grey sheath go to the adjacent master socket ?

I'm now out of my depth as well - yeah, the pictures were just to get a better shot. Should have said that, sorry.

you appear to have white internal cables going out of the top of the bigger box - what are they ? at least one is wired to your line that feeds the NTE5.

how many external cables come in the box - looks to be one grey external BT cable with jelly coating possibly also an armoured grey one ?

In reply to a post by yarwell:

I'm studying your photos, it looks to me like the black incoming cable (with jelly all over it) has some crimped connections leading off elsewhere before the blue/white pair in the grey sheath go to the adjacent master socket ?

That should be the Sky line?

probably includes the Sky line but there are at least two other internal grade cables entering top right and at least one is wired to the crimps that feed the other line.

Hi Yarwell,

Thanks for your replies.

I honestly don't have a clue about any of this - my brother done the wiring.

I've attached some pictures here for another look to see if you can get any better of it:

From the grey cable, there's a load of wires coming out which are disconnected except orange and blue.

The cable which is attached to the master socket has only the blue and white blue cables connected.

Note: I've got a lot of heavy electrical equipment located right beside the socket, I heard this could be bad, is it?

By the way, I've recorded a video on my phone to show you about the box as I think it's better than just pictures. I'll post it in 20 minutes whenever it's uploaded ( slow connection )

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/163/img0247ge.jpg
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/2127/img0246lu.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9302/img0244s.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3369/img0243u.jpg
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3295/img0242i.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2277/img0241tg.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4980/img0240pd.jpg

so are you going to get a BT guy to sort this or have a go yourself ?

You have wired extensions connected before the NTE5 adjacent to the junction box, as far as I can see. These should be either snipped or wired to the back of the NTE faceplate.

What's the black cable for at the top ? is that bringing another line in - what connections are used from that.

Here's that vid, I'll get back to you within the next few minutes on those questions you asked.

where ?

sorry, forgot about that

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=24ngxll&s=7

Right, ok

The internal cables at the top were for old phone leads that were going into cottage type things.

I think I'm going to spend half an hour here and cut out all the [censored] that I don't need.

jack

good idea, if you can keep the links from the master socket to the incoming cable and snip the other things off the jelly crimps that would be a start.

WHAT?!

How very DARE you say that? I resemble that remark!! I have a good mind to flipping well start thinking if you start any more of that.., that... crepe - and you just see if I *DON'T!! [growl]

*Don't worry, there is NO chance that I will ever start thinking, so there!

/Guesty sleeps his plastic anger away.

I prefer chicken and mushroom crepe.

Hi guys,

Just started cutting the [censored] out of some of the unused wires and have eventually got my ping down to 70.

Router Stats:

DSL Status: UP
DSL Modulation Mode: GDMT
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 4992 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 9 db
Upstream Margin: 21 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 40
Upstream Line Attenuation: 19
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1157289741.png


Really appreciate it - says though my router is syncing at near 5Mbps - anyway I can get it up to that speed?

the IP profile will follow in up to 5 days, see RobertoS site if you need to know more. BT Speedtester reveals what it currently is.

With just a slender glass of Juniper held aloft!

Huzzah!

Hi guys,

Bit of a problem again

I'm now back down to speeds of 1.17down and 0.14 upload with pings of 441ms.

I've touched nothing since yesterday at all.

Anyone think of anything - I don't think the ping problem was totally away yesterday, anyone know what it could be?

Regards,

Jack

Maybe another pic, taken in daylight, now you have tidied it up?

What is the Sky line doing?

I haven't tidied it up yet (Sky Line), it has never had as much noise but it does a bit. My VoIP calls are absolutely useless with such high pings.

I just basically cut a few wires off that weren't really in use and it seemed to get far higher pings.

It seems to be when I reset my modem that the pings go down to about 50 and then after an hour or two they go up to 300, could it be the router?

Jack

Could be the router, yes. Have we asked what make/model it is?

Does it get very hot?

The modem is the WRG354G and the router for where I'm wirelessly connected to and the phones are connected to is the WRT300N (both Linksys manufactured).

Went outside to the modem and connected to it directly, it also causes the problem so it's not the router which is the issue. Perhaps the modem?

From the first of those two posts I was going to suggest the modem. After all, that is what manages the connection. The router/switch/WAP does what it says on the tin.

Have you tried giving the whole setup 30 minutes rest, and disconnecting/reconnecting all data and power cables at both ends?

In reply to a post by yarwell:

good idea, if you can keep the links from the master socket to the incoming cable and snip the other things off the jelly crimps that would be a start.

Phil

Isn't there likely to be a detrimental effect from all the electrical equipment located in the same area? Shouldn't the junction box be moved away from all this equipment?

Wagstaff

Isn't there likely to be a detrimental effect from all the electrical equipment located in the same area? Shouldn't the junction box be moved away from all this equipment?

there may be, the router is probably sat on the electric meter or something.

Hi there,

Tried turning it off for 30 minutes and connecting everything in individually, no difference.

The modem is above all the electrical equipment and a Gigabit switch is plugged in to that.

Tried different DSL cable aswell, no difference.

By the way, whenever I do speedtests, the little speedometer thing on http://speedtest.net fluctuates ALOT. For example, one minute it could be on 3.57Mbps and it keeps jumping around the place all the time. Is that normal?

what is the downstream sync speed, as opposed to speed tests ? Speed tests can be affected by many things other than what's going on at your end.

some of the java / flash tests are all over the place, yes. Downloading 100 MBytes is a better test.

I think sync speed is on the router - correct me if I'm wrong. As followed:


Downstream Rate: 4608 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps

correct, 4.6M so not too bad.

So what do ye' think I could do about this ping?

One minute it's 70 next it's 300

likely an ISP thing with congestion, buffers filling up somewhere.

I don't want to get an engineer around - on the line right beside me the ping is always around 70 and it still is so isn't it likely that its something on that line / that modem?

get WinMTR or run MTR to see where the delay is. On a congested ISP you see the ping go up like this

70 ms may be the routing you're taking if it's always that high.

Hi Yarwell, what do you mean by the route I'm taking?

And do you know any MTR applications for Mac? And I can't do the thinkbroadband checker thing as I'm using a dynamic IP.

Thanks again

Jack

sometimes you get sent via Edinburgh or something, which can add to ping times. Cross channel is not unheard of in some cases due to routing error.

Try mtr from command line on Mac, it works in linux but I don't really do proprietary hardware

http://mtr.darwinports.com/ ?

Woah - you're a fast replier!

Whenever I do a whois on my IP, it comes up that it's coming from a BT node in Edinburgh & speedtests show my best location as Edinburgh *even though I'm in Northern Ireland*.

Is it possible if you could tell me what to do? I can only go so far when it comes to telecoms and then I'm beat. Do I run a traceroute or ping or something and how do I do mtr?

That site looks confusing

Jack

Ping on left is bbc.co.uk
Ping on right is my modem*

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4954/screenshot2011...

Edited by deleted (Tue 15-Feb-11 23:11:40)

NI traffic routes through the edinburgh mux.

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

I can't do the thinkbroadband checker thing as I'm using a dynamic IP.

Is your IP address genuinely Dynamic, or just specified to be?

What I mean is does it change most times you reconnect, or does it in fact stay the same?

If it doesn't change, there is a chance that if you ignore the message from tbb BQM and just set it up then it will work fine. But when your IP address changes you will lose it, and when some other person, not even a tbb user, gets the previous address it will start up on theirs, which they may not want.

MTR is a traceroute / ping tool. Can't really help with the details of how to install it from http://mtr.darwinports.com/ as I'm not an OSX user. Someone in the Apple forum here might help.

You use MTR like ping - for example 'mtr www.bbc.co.uk' produces :-

Text

1 23 45 67 89 1011 12

Host                                Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev  1. lns13.inx.dsl.enta.net            0.0%    51   30.8  42.1  30.3 110.1  23.7 2. 188.39.1.9                        0.0%    50   30.7  31.5  30.2  66.0   5.0  3. te2-2.interxion.dsl.enta.net      0.0%    50   30.7  31.5  30.0  62.3   4.5 4. te2-3.interxion.core.enta.net     0.0%    50   31.3  31.9  30.3  65.1   4.8  5. te4-2.telehouse-east.core.enta.n  0.0%    50   31.7  32.0  31.0  41.7   1.9 6. te5-1.telehouse-east2.core.enta.  0.0%    50   31.5  32.5  30.2  94.3   8.9  7. 212.58.238.177                    0.0%    50   31.4  33.3  30.6 122.1  12.9 8. 212.58.238.129                    0.0%    50   30.8  33.1  30.4 130.9  14.1  9. te12-1.hsw0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk       0.0%    50   32.0  31.9  31.0  32.9   0.410. 212.58.255.12                     0.0%    50   32.0  32.4  31.3  46.9   2.1 11. bbc-vip012.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk        0.0%    50   32.5  32.0  31.2  32.7   0.4

which allows you to see where the variability is arising.

Hi Yarwell, thanks for your reply again.

I couldn't get that mtr working so I done a traceroute. I also tried using a different modem and it still has high ping so that is possibly indicating something wrong with the external network (except the line right next to this faulty one if working ok).

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4217/screenshot2011...

Although it seems everytime I reset the router, it lowers down to 70 and stays there. This happened for both a Linksys WAG354G and a Netgear modem/router.

Jack

they seem to have issues

phil@minuet:~$ ping 217.47.106.186
PING 217.47.106.186 (217.47.106.186) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 217.47.106.186: icmp_seq=1 ttl=115 time=47.0 ms
64 bytes from 217.47.106.186: icmp_seq=2 ttl=115 time=46.5 ms
64 bytes from 217.47.106.186: icmp_seq=3 ttl=115 time=47.0 ms

so I can ping the first BT hop on your connection faster than you can ! Points to some oddity in the routing, or traffic management / overload problem.

May be better in the BT Broadband forum. Does dropping the PPP session (disconnect / connect on the Netgear UI) affect ping ?

Hi Yarwell,

I think it's BTs problem. Would a lot of noise on the line mean that there is a higher ping?

I have made an appointment for an engineer for Friday.

I think I've eliminated it down to the pole outside.

I connected the wires coming in direct from the pole and still got a lot of noise therefore I'm guessing there's a problem on their half.

Jack

Would a lot of noise on the line mean that there is a higher ping?

no.

Hi Phil,

Do you know what would be causing the high ping then?

Jack

usually it is congestion with a router running at a high % CPU load, reposnding to pings is lower down its priority than doing the routing it's there for. Also larger queues form on congested links which increases ping (like my Demon BQM graphs) or if the buffer isn't there you get packet loss.

You should try and find others in your area in the BT forum to see if they get the same experience, in case it's a regional thing.

Nope - see the line right beside the one I'm having problems has always had a ping of 60-70 and it has never went higher.

But I have tried two different modems. None are overheating or anything and I think I'd see more threads on the BT forum indicating high pings if there was a regional / nation wide issue.

And what does a high buffer mean?

So the engineer just arrived at 3.30pm. Done everything that I had done. Was very huffy & kept tutting at me and said 'I don't see what the problem is if you don't use the phone, all you're doing is using broadband. Line noise won't affect broadband'. Knew this would happen for an engineer slot in the evening of a Friday. People want to get home.

He said that there was some sort of electrical noise coming through the line and he connected it right up to the point where it enters the building and confirmed it was outside of our premises.

Unfortunately he asked for my contact telephone number and is away to the cabinet to check what's going on. This basically means 'I'm going to the cabinet, I'll ring you and ask you if it's fixed, then I'll go home.'

I've read many times that line noise can majorly affect broadband and I can't say it doesn't seeing as I've been told many times that I can get a line speed of around 4-8Mbps on a line which has a downstream attenuation of now 37. I can only get 2Mbps on a good day.

Will wait and see and get back to you guys. I think I know more about all this carry on than he does.

Edited by deleted (Fri 18-Feb-11 16:19:45)

He is right that audio-level noise will not affect broadband.

He is wrong in that, by definition, you can't hear noise outside the audible range, where the broadband frequencies are.

So fixing the audible noise, which they have to do, means finding and removing the fault on the line. 99% chance the broadband then goes great.

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

Check out this thread on BTs forum:

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/VERY-Bad-Noise...

Engineer didn't show today, I'm a bit [censored] to be honest.

What do I need to do to get their attention. Yesterday they sent out a clueless 'engineer'.

Do I need someone who has the skills and knowledge to get a ladder and climb a telephone pole and what are these so called 'engineers' called which have the ability to do this.

I have a feeling I'm going to be through a big big rigmarole with all this and I just want the problem to be sorted quickly.

Thanks again, you guys have been great in helping me.

Jack

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

Engineer didn't show today, I'm a bit [censored] to be honest.

What do I need to do to get their attention. Yesterday they sent out a clueless 'engineer'.

Dealing with BT can be extremely frustrating at the best of times. If you don't have any joy with the moderator, try the Chief Exec's office.

Wagstaff

Hi guys - so speeds fixed (at times) although can go down from 5Mbps to 1Mbps at times.

I'm still getting in the region of 500ms at times, but as said whenever I reset the router it fixes itself down to a normal (for me and neighbours) 70ms.
Have tried two different routers, same issue.

Anyone shed some light on this issue?

Anyone shed some light on this issue?

most likely ISP congestion, try disconnecting / reconnecting the PPP session (Disconnect) and see if it has the same benefit.

http://www.pingtest.net/result/35793698.png

http://www.pingtest.net/result/35793881.png

This is awful.

My speeds are way down. Representative doesn't even know what she's talking about, whenever I say ping she says 'ok what error message is it'.

Yes, whenever I disconnect and reconnect the problem fixes itself to 75ms although it goes back up.

Edited by deleted (Tue 01-Mar-11 21:42:14)

MTR would help show where it goes wrong. Boot a live linux CD to run it ?

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

My speeds are way down. Representative doesn't even know what she's talking about, whenever I say ping she says 'ok what error message is it'.

When you say "representative", are you talking about the BT forum moderator?

Wagstaff

No, on the phone. What should I tell her? Is it on my end if I disconnect and reconnect?

Here's a traceroute I ran - does this mean the problem is on BTs side?

http://i52.tinypic.com/33bo5c9.png

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

No, on the phone. What should I tell her? Is it on my end if I disconnect and reconnect?

Do you mean that you're still talking to the indians!? I thought you had a thread going on the BT forum.

what are the three different times - max, min, avg or just 3 pings ?

I did - that was that issue with the speed resolved but the ping issue is still on going.

It's a pain in the damn hole, not being racist but this stupid Indian hasn't got a clue what she's talking about and they're trying to use sympathy tactics by saying 'oh she's only been here for a few hours, she's new to the floor'. I don't give a damn, you're supposed to give them training.

so is this issue laying on their network? i always get a constant 70ms ping and my neighbours do as well but over the past few months it's been ridiculous & we run a business using VoIP, the call quality is so bad we had to move back to copper for a while but it's very expensive.

the ping times look like congested routers as some of the distant pings are lower than the near ones.

Why do you stick with BT as an ISP ?

there's not really a difference if I move ISP as my exchange has 2k people, no LLU, can't get fibre and it's just a pain in the [censored]

not sure about the 3 times, my guess it's pinging it 3 times.

Here's my ping results, not a traceroute

http://i53.tinypic.com/szfty0.png

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

I did - that was that issue with the speed resolved but the ping issue is still on going.

So BT gave your line a clean bill of health. How was it resolved ? Or should I say: what did BT do to resolve the speed issue?

Came out and replaced the line from the pole to the premises. Noise is all gone and speeds went up to 6Mbps but now this ping thing makes it feel like it's half a Mbp.

there's not really a difference if I move ISP

why not ? I have two lines to a similar sized market 1 exchange on two different ISPs - one is like yours and the other isn't. If it is the ISP that is congested rather than the exchange backhaul there is every reason to change.

If it's a business why aren't you on Max Premium for faster upload and priority traffic ?

how do you go on max premium?

buy a service that is provided on a Max Premium circuit, usually easy to spot from their 832k upload speed and typically called "Business" (except by BT)

Earlier you wrote "on the line right beside me the ping is always around 70 and it still is " as an illustration of why this is ISP specific.

That ISP is Sky, but the neighbour next to me (who I am aware is on a smaller package) is on BT aswell, she gets 70ms. Is 70ms too high? It seems to be that for everyone.

I'm migrating to BT Business next week? Will it improve?

I'm migrating to BT Business next week? Will it improve?

it might. Is it 832k upstream ?

I don't have a clue how to find out, isn't showing up anywhere on my account, just says the max you can get download is 2000Kbps (don't think it caught my new IP profile yet).

http://i52.tinypic.com/30ice1d.png

It says though in a banner that business traffic is prioritized.

re ping times - if I use speedtest.net to Dublin I get 93ms, Birmingham 50ms, so a 20 ms "irish sea penalty" may be at work, and if you test to Dublin you may get two of them.

If you don't have ADSL2+ WBC services on your exchange I think you'll be on a 448k upstream unless you pay BT Business about £60/mo but it is very obscure on the web site.

yeah I suppose - don't have ADSL2+ - don't know when / if BT would even roll it out on such a small exchange of mine.

see right now I'm getting far higher pings, just started going up and my son noticed lag on call of duty

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1180230798.png

yarwell what do you think the problem is? could it be on my end, can you see anything from my traceroute results that would indiciate it's a problem with my connection? i've tried 3 modems, no difference.. whenever i disconnect and connect the broadband speeds go up and ping goes down but this will eventually lower the IP profile and I can't be doing that all the time.

what do you suggest I do? thanks for your help

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

what do you suggest I do?

Experience has told you, Jack, that dealing with BT is a real pain, although you did achieve some success in getting them to replace the line from the pole to your house.

Phil (yarwell) has been consistent throughout this thread in suggesting that you move to a new ISP, because the issue is a routing problem that can only be resolved by your ISP, BT Broadband.
To support this, I found the following piece of advice on dslreports.com:-

�If your latency (ping times) is consistently high, you need to question your provider as to your routing. Many ISPs are not national, but are able to sell DSL nationally. In certain cases, they must route traffic all over the place even if you are trying to use local game servers or sites.
In other cases, the ISP has real (and hopefully temporary) routing problems, or a critical failure and they are on backup.
Normally network specialists plan for optimal routing, but during fast growth, your ISP may have got into a situation where customers pay penalty in ping time while the ISP figures out how to resolve the problem.�

The piece went on to say that, if faced with persistent high latency, there�s not a lot you can do.
�ISPs are not obliged to operate with any minimum latency guarantees, so vote with your feet. Discussing the problem with as senior a technical support person as you can find (not much chance of that as far as BT India is concerned) may reveal they have expansion plans that will ease the problem in your area.�

If you move to a business account with BT, things may improve, because, as suggested from the banner you saw, your line will be prioritised. But you have to ask yourself: �will the support be any better when I�m a BT business customer?�

Wagstaff

thanks Wagstaff - do you recommend any good ISPs?

I wonder if BT Business support are located in India as well, they probably are but from experience from my mobile (i know it's different, O2 consumer support were based in india whereas business support was 24/7 within the UK and usually got things done a lot quicker).

How long do I have when i move over to business to cancel the contract? the go-live date for migration is on friday this week.

thanks wagstaff & yarwell, you've been great

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

thanks Wagstaff - do you recommend any good ISPs?

I wonder if BT Business support are located in India as well, they probably are but from experience from my mobile (i know it's different, O2 consumer support were based in india whereas business support was 24/7 within the UK and usually got things done a lot quicker).

How long do I have when i move over to business to cancel the contract? the go-live date for migration is on friday this week.

thanks wagstaff & yarwell, you've been great

It is difficult for anyone here to advise on ISPs. If you look through the various threads on the TBB forums you may get an idea of which ones are good and which are bad, but it is very subjective.
I've only had experience of two ISPs: BT Broadband and Plusnet. This is why I'm able to sympathise with you over your dealings with BT. Plusnet support is far, far better - you're dealing with UK-based technical people who understand your problems.

As far as your contract with BT is concerned, you should be able to find their terms and conditions somewhere on the website. I'm sure that, if you've only just ordered the business account, there must be a cooling off period for you to change your mind.

Wagstaff

I've told you what I think the problem is and what you should do at least twice.

I'll avoid racial stereotypes

Disconnecting the PPP session does not affect the IP profile you do it from the router GUI.

So just a little update:-

I got in touch with Ian Livingston (BT CEO) - he passed me on to someone from their executive complaints department. The situation escalated and I'm now dealing with the chairmans team.

I've had another 4-5 engineer visits and yet so far nothing has happened. They've changed my pairs at the exchange, changed me on to new equipment and done lots more. Let's just say the engineers have been nicer although that's not the issue.

Today a woman came here today (BT engineer) and went to the exchange. She said she changed the twisted pairs at the exchange and although this fixed the line fault apparently, my sync speeds have went from 7Mbps / 0.48Mbps upload to this (http://www.speedtest.net/result/1205271713.png). My sync speeds have went from what I mentioned above to this:

Connection Information

Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 02:12:04
Downstream 3,520 Kbps
Upstream 128 Kbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation G.992.1 Annex A
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 8.3 dB / 6.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 55.1 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 5.4 dBm / 0.4 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote) 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote) 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote) 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 170 / 7824
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 34 / 438
HEC Errors (Down/Up) 129 / 158
Error Seconds (Local/Remote) 12 / 560

Does anyone know why my sync speeds have lowered so drastically? The latency was never fixed.

Thanks,

Jack

You'll have to do a BT speedtest to see what your IP Profile is set to, but currently you're syncing at half what you were...

I'm so sorry but I can't even access the speedtester.bt.com site it's so slow.

Ok guys, took your advice - switched to Aquiss and the 7 day migration is over. Started on Thursday.

What can I say - things are starting to get worse. Of course this isn't Aquiss' fault and I commend them on being a great company. They helped me with my setup and were very professional.

The pings when I first got the service were great (for me atleast), 53ms (the lowest I'd ever seen them) however I'm starting to see them deteriorate again.

My son cannot play online games anymore, I even watched it and it's awful.


Ping has started�

PING bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=0 ttl=117 time=52.552 ms
Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
Request timeout for icmp_seq 2
Request timeout for icmp_seq 3
Request timeout for icmp_seq 4
Request timeout for icmp_seq 5
Request timeout for icmp_seq 6
Request timeout for icmp_seq 7
Request timeout for icmp_seq 8
Request timeout for icmp_seq 9
Request timeout for icmp_seq 10
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=1 ttl=117 time=10711.362 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=12 ttl=117 time=48.691 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=13 ttl=117 time=49.249 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=14 ttl=117 time=113.301 ms
Request timeout for icmp_seq 15
Request timeout for icmp_seq 16
Request timeout for icmp_seq 17
Request timeout for icmp_seq 18
Request timeout for icmp_seq 19
Request timeout for icmp_seq 20
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=15 ttl=117 time=6159.444 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=22 ttl=117 time=51.007 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=23 ttl=117 time=111.069 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=24 ttl=117 time=95.061 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=25 ttl=117 time=49.116 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=26 ttl=117 time=48.974 ms
Request timeout for icmp_seq 27
Request timeout for icmp_seq 28
Request timeout for icmp_seq 29
Request timeout for icmp_seq 30
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=27 ttl=117 time=4061.014 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.224.138: icmp_seq=32 ttl=117 time=108.016 ms

So what do I do next? Have I exhausted all my options?

I think your being a tad quick to jump to conclusions. I presume your going to give us a little time for us to understand your line conditions before throwing in the towel?

You been with us 24 hours (your line will be in a 10 day training period). We already started to take measures to review your line, however you have to understand we know little about your historical past.

I would prefer if you handle this directly via our support desk as these forums are not our official support home.

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

Ok guys, took your advice - switched to Aquiss and the 7 day migration is over. Started on Thursday.

What can I say - things are starting to get worse. Of course this isn't Aquiss' fault and I commend them on being a great company. They helped me with my setup and were very professional.

The pings when I first got the service were great (for me atleast), 53ms (the lowest I'd ever seen them) however I'm starting to see them deteriorate again.

My son cannot play online games anymore, I even watched it and it's awful.

What package are you on with Aquiss? FTTC?

Hi Martin,

I'm just using these forums to gauge an understanding from people like BatBoy, RobertoS & a few others that have helped me out in the past in understanding what was wrong with previous sync faults. In no way am I putting down your service, it's absolutely fantastic & the sync speeds are even higher. Your support is also superb, your customer service is fantastic & I think your packages are great. I am not going to give up Aquiss simply because I know it's not your fault but obviously it's something on BT's side.

@BatBoy - it's ADSL 15 Business Package.

If you'd like me to abandon this thread Martin & be in direct contact with you and your team then just drop me an email and I'd be very happy to do so.

Thanks again,

Jack

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

If you'd like me to abandon this thread Martin & be in direct contact with you and your team then just drop me an email and I'd be very happy to do so.

Certainly not asking you to abandon, however if you can reply to us on the support ticket you raised overnight with a bit of history to your problem (i replied personally early this morning) then this would be helpful and also mean that possible important data is being kept together.

PS: For reference i have requested Interleaving to be switched off. This should complete March 28th.

PPS: If you can also enable ICMP (ping) packet replies on your router, we can start to graph/monitor your line via our inhouse systems.

Hi guys,

Here's a quality monitor graph thing I set up a few minutes ago:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/239b8301ea0...

It doesn't seem to look like there's any problems there, is there?

I prefer mine...

My Broadband Ping

Horrible. Click the link to my live one in my sig.

I'd forgotten I've got a live link in my sig as well

Your name is there as well, in case you ever need a reminder .

Do I come here often?

So with that BQM setup what is it indicating? I basically have too high of a latency and it is fluctuating too much?

My initial reaction was yes, the base-line is too high, but reading back through the other threads it looks as though that may be normal for NI - I'd forgotten that's where you are.

But that fluctuation is really bad.

Am I right in thinking that's the ex-BT Broadband line? When he replaced the line to the pole, from what point at your end did he start? Did he come all the way back to the master socket? What about the maze of wires around that - how "removed" are the redundant ones?

Is the Sky line run through the same cable from the pole, and if so at what point does the feed to the master socket for that separate out?

I only remember seeing one set of stats with error counts included. Could we have some for each line please?

Does the Sky latency fluctuate like the Aquiss (ex-BT) one?

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

Hi guys,

Here's a quality monitor graph thing I set up a few minutes ago:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/239b8301ea0...

It doesn't seem to look like there's any problems there, is there?

What happened just after mid-day today? Latency went clear for a significant time after a huge peak.

Hi Roberto,

Yes that's correct, thats the ex BT line. He replaced the line from the pole to a box and from that box it connects via a master socket underground (about 15 metres). That underground cable then goes up to the master socket. No other cables connected.

The bunch of other wires have all been disconnected. I've read that internal wiring won't cause latency / packet loss problems but you're the expert.

The sky line runs from the same pole although through a different line. It has a constant 70ms and as it's on sky it doesn't have a static ip so I can't see a bqm although it has never had as much packet loss or high pings that the ex-BT one has had.

Unfortunately I'm on the road at the minute so can't get the stats for you but I will post them up later.

I think that's when I reset my modem to see if fast path kicked in although it didn't.

Jack

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

I think that's when I reset my modem to see if fast path kicked in although it didn't.

Jack

Look at it now

I think the only thing you can do there is wait for Martin to see it. That's just ridiculous.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think the only thing you can do there is wait for Martin to see it. That's just ridiculous.

I thought Martin asked for stuff to be posted on his own forum?

He's got two eyes.

I'm amazed how he can manage to run a whole company and answer probably so many emails on his own (maybe with a little help?).

Packet loss on the BQM is the telephone line going out for a few minutes.

I took these pictures and video showing the setup. If there's any indiscrepancies let me know?

Sky Line goes from this pole to the premises (this pole goes back to the exchange I think)
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8374/img0369wf.jpg

This is the pole of which the high latency line is connected to. It's connected back to the pole above.
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6898/img0370iz.jpg

Faulty latency line connected to the premises:
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8786/img0371at.jpg

Again pole line going to premises:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8453/img0372mv.jpg

Coming down the side of the building into the room:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/316/img0373j.jpg

Video showing inside of where it comes into premises:
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/5015/file23961i.mp4

It then goes across underground - this is the cables in the box it's connected to:
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4200/img0376z.jpg

Connected to master socket:
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8333/img0377ti.jpg

Split legs ahoy.

From your video to the next twisted connection is split.

You need to change the blue/orange to blue and it's corresponding white.

Never let telecom engineers do your electrics and never let electricians do your telecoms, they just don't understand the magical properties of twisted pairs. .

Edited by deleted (Sun 27-Mar-11 20:57:21)

But could that be causing the packet loss problems?

It could easily cause considerable interference to affect your internal wiring, so yes. (My wine-addled brain couldn't face all those links, but RJ is right about split pairs. They are very bad news.)

No guarantee that is the cause, but it certainly needs correcting as a step to a solution.

To insert wires into IDC connectors you need a cheapo IDC/Krone tool. 70p or so to £2, at Maplin; B & Q; online ADSL Nation.

As far as I can see, they are like that?:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7818/bydefault20110...

Yes. The black cable that will be greasy and has blue/orange connected is split. Should be blue/white. You'll need to cut the sheathing back a bit to find the right twisted white wire.

Edited by deleted (Mon 28-Mar-11 18:05:17)

Fastpath kicked in this morning.

Hi Random, I'm really bad with wiring, sorry...

I need to get this sorted as I've had to move back to copper telephones for the past month or so and it's costing me a fortune.

Right so I still don't understand what's going on. As far as I can see the blue is connected with the white & the orange is connected with the orange. I've posted some separate pictures. I just want to say thank you to everyone for their help and although my latency problem is fixed, I still have high packet loss etc. and high jitter.

1) http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5653/img0383rl.jpg
2) http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5039/img0382kx.jpg
3) http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3529/img0381ia.jpg
4) http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2833/img0380o.jpg

I'll try to explain, though no doubt not as well as he can when he is next here.

In the black cable there are several pairs of wire, and the two wires of each pair are twisted round each other. This in some way minimises the interference that gets picked up by the pair - I think it is because they both pick up roughly the same amount and it cancels itself out, or the equipment can do the cancelling because the two interference values are so similar.

A split pair connection is when a wire from one pair is used together with a wire from another pair. Because these two wires aren't twisted round each other they often have different noise levels picked up and so it doesn't get properly cancelled out.

He is saying the blue from the black cable will be paired with a white wire, not an orange wire. So you need to get a bit up where the black sheath is and find the white wire that is twisted round the blue one, and use that instead of the orange one. Then do the same at the other end.

Having said all that, not being an expert and not sure which pic shows wires from where, I don't understand exactly what you need to do, as for example the blue is crimped to a white, where I would have though it sensible for it to have been an ongoing blue.

So perhaps you had better wait for him or someone else who knows more than me, but I hope you understand what he is saying now?

PS - Just googled it and found this wiki article.

(Edit - just wondering, given other connections there, whether it might make sense to find the white wire that is twisted round the orange and replace the blue with that. The important thing is to get a twisted pair from end to end of all the connections, even if from one socket to another a different pair is used. For instance the pic after the video link has blue with a white stripe, which is I think is CW1308 and would be paired with white with blue markings).

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 29-Mar-11 20:09:36)

I'm trying to get my brother (who's a bit better at wiring than I am to do it for me) but he says that it doesn't matter what colours the wires are, different companies make different cables with different colours and it doesn't matter. I know you guys are the expert but is there any sense in that statement?

Have I got any sense into me now? See http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/164/testax.jpg

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

I'm trying to get my brother (who's a bit better at wiring than I am to do it for me) but he says that it doesn't matter what colours the wires are, different companies make different cables with different colours and it doesn't matter. I know you guys are the expert but is there any sense in that statement?

Does he understand why twisted pairs are important?

To be honest, he's more into electrical stuff - he said twisted pairs aren't used in telephone cables but obviously I would disagree otherwise. What did you think of that pic?

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

To be honest, he's more into electrical stuff - he said twisted pairs aren't used in telephone cables but obviously I would disagree otherwise. What did you think of that pic?

Doesn't sound like he's going to help. The important thing is to find a pair of wires that are twisted together and use that pair.

Can you explain where that box is? Maybe draw a diagram of the wires and boxes as the signal comes into the house from the outside?

The BT cable coming in isn't twisted - there's no blue/white wire.

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

The BT cable coming in isn't twisted - there's no blue/white wire.

The BT cable coming in from where?

From the pole on the road - should it be twisted?

Yes. It should be (and it is, imo).

What makes you say it isn't?

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Mar-11 21:24:55)

I don't think it is? None of it is twisted... and what should I do about the like 6 six white cables. There's no blue/white?

Thanks again for your help

Jack

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

I don't think it is? None of it is twisted... and what should I do about the like 6 six white cables. There's no blue/white?

Thanks again for your help

Jack

Sorry about this. Can you describe what happens to the wire from the pole when it hits the house? Does it go into an external box on the eaves? WHat about where it enters the house?

It's actually a business here so it goes from the pole, along the side of the building into a room where that box is located. A few pics are posted about 2-4 pages back showing where it comes in. It then goes via an underground cable to the master socket across a yard.

No problem - keep asking, I'm really dying to get this resolved. Thanks for your help by the way

Ok, so which is the incoming cable? The white and orange or the blue and orange?

Thanks for your reply

This is the incoming cable from the pole:
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5653/img0383rl.jpg

Thanks,
Jack

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

Thanks for your reply

This is the incoming cable from the pole:
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5653/img0383rl.jpg

Thanks,
Jack

The black cable with the Orange and White ?

Yep that's correct

Jack

Ok, I think Orange/white is a twisted pair.

What about the Orange/Blue - are there other coloured wires in that cable?

As RJ said a few posts back you'll need to strip back the cable which has the split pair (Orange and blue wires), you will probably need to go back a few inches as the twist is not that apparent.
You should see that each coloured core has a white twisted with it. The white which is twisted with the orange should replace the blue wire.

Colours there are:

Gray
4 x White
Green
Blue
Brown
Orange

In reply to a post by Rockh:

As RJ said a few posts back you'll need to strip back the cable which has the split pair (Orange and blue wires), you will probably need to go back a few inches as the twist is not that apparent.
You should see that each coloured core has a white twisted with it. The white which is twisted with the orange should replace the blue wire.

Are all the coloured wires twisted with a white wire in that cable, or is there a coloured twisted pair?

Each colour will have a white associated with it, you need to carefully strip the cable back a few inches and you should see the white twisted round it's coloured mate.

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

Colours there are:

Gray
4 x White
Green
Blue
Brown
Orange

That's 9, is there another?

White with coloured mate on 5 pair poly/poly.

Might be why they used the blue, snapped the white off when stripping the cable back, easy to do when you use a stanley knife, oh it doesn't matter say's the (guess but..) electrician.......

5 whites - 5 coloured.

Definitely not twisted, took a sample of the cable used. I'd post it but my stupid iPhone isn't working.

Sounds about right. Time to strip back the cable a bit to have a look then.

Trust me it will be, the twist is VERY slight but it is there.

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

5 whites - 5 coloured.

Definitely not twisted, took a sample of the cable used. I'd post it but my stupid iPhone isn't working.

Switch it off and on....

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

This is the incoming cable from the pole:
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5653/img0383rl.jpg

Jack - can you confirm that the orange and white wires are coming from the pole, and the orange and blue wires are going into the house? Would you say that these are the only wires that are "active"?

In one of your earlier posts you gave us a picture of the room in which this particular "junction box" is located. The picture showed a lot of electrical equipment, isolators etc. Could you show us this again.
VMTs

Wagstaff

Confirmed that here http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/3986744-c...

The switchgear pics are here http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/3967223-c...

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Mar-11 22:52:22)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Confirmed that here http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/3986744-c...

As far as I can see, there are only four "active" wires - the orange and white coming from the pole and the orange and blue going into the house.
Is that how you see it?

Wagstaff

Yeah, and the orange/blue are not a twisted pair. According to Rockh the cable has all the colours paired with a white..

But should there be two oranges going in to the same connecting thing?
Just off the phone with my BT engineer friend and he's taking a look tomorrow at it. But the major thing is... could this really be a problem which affects packet loss & latency?

And could anyone tell me why on my BQM (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/239b8301ea0f6ea6263677a83c774d13.html) it shows ok latency but massive maximum latency. Is this just spikes in ping?

Thanks for all your help

Jack

In reply to a post by jdowning640:

But should there be two oranges going in to the same connecting thing?
Just off the phone with my BT engineer friend and he's taking a look tomorrow at it. But the major thing is... could this really be a problem which affects packet loss & latency?

And could anyone tell me why on my BQM (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/239b8301ea0f6ea6263677a83c774d13.html) it shows ok latency but massive maximum latency. Is this just spikes in ping?

Thanks for all your help

Jack

Yes, two oranges are ok. It's the blue that's wrong - should be white.

I can't understand the BQM, I use f8lure instead.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Yeah, and the orange/blue are not a twisted pair. According to Rockh the cable has all the colours paired with a white..

So who ever's done the connections has cut away the white wires from each pair.
And what should be there is:-

From Pole To JB -
Orange+White & White+White

From JB To House -
Orange+White & Blue+White


Wagstaff

Hi Wagstaff, yep that's correct.

Here's your request - took a min ago:

http://yfrog.com/jbphoto2yvj
http://yfrog.com/nyphoto1zj

Hi

The incoming wire is an overhead wire and is on correct pair Orange/White. Orange is A leg White is B leg

The cable going away which will be greasy to the touch is not correct as it should be White/Blue. White is A leg Blue is B leg

This should be changed at both ends to White/Blue as the incorrect Blue/Orange will be causing problems.

Different cables have different colour codes. There will be twists in it but the 'pitch' may be slight so you need to strip back a bit to see which white is twisted with the blue.

If you can't suss it out, It's time to call in a visit from a telephone engineer. You have split pairs an irregular joint box and bare twisted ends - this is not a professional install.

Nah, different colour codes.

Incoming pair 1 is Orange A - White B
Outgoing pair 1 is White A - Blue B

Outgoing cable needs to be changed to white/blue at both ends.

the confusion is that there will be only one white wire incoming but 5 white wires outgoing.

So the outgoing cable will need to be cut back a bit to find the right white wire twisted around the blue albeit at a very light pitch.

His BT mate will be able to sort it out. I would expect higher synch as a result too, depending how long the split cable is.

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Mar-11 23:20:48)

Excellent, thanks